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Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena.
I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
Hey, it's Morbid. It sounded like you said s'morbid.
Smorbid! Smorbid bitch. You can have s'more of morbid.
funny. We've just been roasting each other all day.
I love the ha ha ha ha.
I was like ha ha, you're so funny.
We have been roasting each other all day.
The whole week really.
And it's not just me roasting Ash, Ash is roasting me back.
Guys? Somebody come get her!
She being mean! so nothing has happened since the last time we recorded.
The last time we recorded yesterday yeah i'm trying to think did it literally anything happened can we talk about guys what do you guys want to talk about raise your hand if you have something for the class uh we're coming up on our 666th episode and it's gonna be a listener tales episode yes which means we're to dress up and boy do we have something so that's exciting I ordered all the accoutrements of my costume today fun me too and we got some good news yesterday for the near future oh yeah some good good thing not me being like what what do we learn yesterday yeah yeah wonderful things so that there's
you know I'm looking forward to that mm -hmm oh we watched a a very interesting movie on scream this is just a random thing to tell you guys because in case you haven't listened to screen what are you doing over here ash picked it so good and i think it's worth throwing it over here in case you in case you haven't been listening to scream you should it's fun go listen to scream fun as hell doing caleb's a goddamn hoot so let's and you know we take suggestions for movies and we also pick our own it's a lot of fun over there don't take it too seriously and neither will you.
You won't. Nobody will but it's really fun so go go listen but if you haven't yet and you're like what are you talking about Ash her pick for the movie um last week was a movie called Hellbender.
It was so fun. It is such a cool movie.
I'm looking up the girl on Tik Tok who recommended it.
Yeah Yeah. It's Kate.
It is Kate. Feral Pisces.
Wow. Listen to you just remembering the TikTok.
I remember because I too follow Kate on TikTok.
We love Feral Pisces.
So... That's her TikTok handle is Feral Pisces.
She's grateful. Yeah.
Cause I was watching Yellow Jackets and then I follow Kate anyways.
Yeah. I just saw her friend Kate.
I just saw her friend, hey Kate.
Anybody I follow on TikTok I'm like we're friends.
And she recommended it.
She was like it's very like similar vibes.
And it is, it's like, like sort of similar.
It's got like folky horror vibes.
That's the thing. I think it's got like the DNA of like that kind of vibe.
You know? Like it's, it's a very unique story.
Uh huh. The people who make it are like a family.
So they have like a really unique story and I think they're like the Addams family literally.
Literally yeah they are.
Their last name is Adams. And they're really good.
They are. What they do.
I think they do a great job and I think they tell stories really differently and it's fun there's another movie that um that they did I can't remember where the devil roams I think yeah I think it is where the day that we're gonna cover next week on screen I'm excited about yeah I'm very excited about it so again this is literally just us being like hey this is a cool thing that we've passed on to you so if you're looking for like an interesting really spooky really cool movie like something you've never seen but yeah that's just gonna make you go what the fuck afterwards but like in the best
way hellbender was really check it out in like a weird way beautifully shot beautifully shot and like weirdly a beautiful story it is yeah like not but yeah but yes but yes at the end so give it a shot i just thought that was like a fun little little thing yeah good call you guys you know we're always trying to tell you cool stuff i want to watch that movie again i do too it's great but unfortunately we have to talk about shit stain.
I know but at least like I feel like he gets apprehended in this part?
Yeah he's not gonna he doesn't win in the end.
So there's that. Yeah I did look up like a couple things, because I just needed to know for my own psyche last night.
Well you always have to see what they look like too.
Yes that is a trip.
That is a trip if you look him up.
He looks very normal when he's younger.
When he's younger yeah.
You can see why people got into his car.
Oh absolutely. He came off almost clean -cut.
No litter, yeah he did.
You know like he he very much was, it's actually interesting that they called him the hippie killer because he doesn't look like a hippie so he's called the hippie killer i think not because he's the hippie in this scenario for killing hippie was also he while he had some hippie ideals he also had disdain for hippies oh okay so i think this is like a double -edged sword here interesting that he had disdain for hippies yeah because like everything that you've described about his personality so far like as far as you know like new age thinking and psychedelics.
It's very hippie coded.
Yeah, he was very confused.
Yes, I would say, yeah.
And what we'll see with Herbert Mullen too is he is mentally ill, obviously.
But he is not insane.
Mm. He knows what he's doing.
Yeah. And he knows what he's doing was wrong.
Yeah, and we will see instances where he covers up things or make sure he takes bullet casings.
Right. He's very, he doesn't not have diminished capacity in the sense that he doesn't know what he's doing is wrong.
So you can hold on to that as like, fuck this guy.
But the last we talked about him, he had killed Mary Guilfoyle, he had killed Lawrence White.
He had killed a literal priest and a confessional.
And he is now wondering whether he is doing things correctly.
That's quite a time to ponder that.
He's wondering if this is the mission he's supposed to be taking, and so he starts - he's also thinking like, okay I don't think I'm stopping an impending disaster from happening, so when we last left you I said that he was also - the voices in his head that he said were in there included his father's voice at this point, and he was now considering whether he could find a more morally righteous way to continue this mission of his.
You've already killed three people so it's a little too like there's no like turn back now.
Well and also like the mission is to sacrifice so there's really no moral morally righteous way to do that.
No there's not. What he was thinking in January 1973 was that he could join the military.
Oh. So he tried to convince his father to allow him to join the military, and he submitted an application to the U .S. Marine Corps.
Okay. In Martin Mullin's mind, which is his father, the Marines would give his son some stability, some direction, help him grow out of whatever phase he was in, you know?
It's not a phase, it's not a phase dad.
But from Herbert Mullin's perspective, the military is kind of ideal for him because he could one, make his father proud of him finally.
And he could also continue what he saw as important work, saving the world, because he would be in an environment where killing wasn't just permissible, it was kind of expected.
So he figured that was like the way to make this better.
Now, having talked to so many doctors in the previous five years or so, he had become really good, and I mentioned this in part one at like anticipating what people wanted to hear.
You know, so like he could he knew how to work the system.
He knew how to get out of stuff.
So the initial paperwork and interview phase flew right by.
Like he killed it. But when it came to the criminal record and drug history part of it, he couldn't talk his way out of that one.
Can't talk your way out of your own past. His criminal record showed several interactions with law enforcement, many of which ended with hospitalization and he was still actively using drugs, which was going to show up on drug tests.
It usually does. So in just a matter of weeks, his plan to turn his whole life around, manage his responsibilities, it all fell apart.
But although there was really only one person to blame for not being accepted into the military, he obviously wasn't going to blame himself.
He wasn't going to accept his responsibility in this.
So this just became yet another paranoid delusion that the world was against him.
And you know, it wasn't his behavior that had caused him to be rejected.
it was society's conspiracy to prevent him from the greatness that he was destined for totally so he wasn't just disappointed with this he was pissed that's not great now in herbert mullin's mind it wasn't just the universe that was conspiring against him but it was the drugs the drugs were conspiring against him well they had clouded his mind for years and he blamed marijuana worst of all which is wild work that that's truly out of all the ones he's doing to blame the pot I'm like bro you were doing LSD yeah and even still like that probably fucked you up but it wasn't totally all of the drugs
all no in his like wildly warped logic he reasoned that smoking pot was what led him to make his bad choices it was yeah it was it was the pot that was responsible for his bad relationship with his parents and most importantly it was what led to so many hospitalizations it was totally that.
Just a part. Just that.
Okay. So but again like his rejection from the military he couldn't take responsibility for his drug use over the years it wasn't him who had decided to do this.
Instead he was like I'm gonna place the blame on the person who started me down this road in the first place.
Yourself? So a little before 9am on the morning of January 25th, Kathy Francis was just barely awake, just starting her day, when she heard not a knocking on her door, but like a tapping.
Oh, I hate that. A very light tapping.
And she wasn't expecting anyone, it was the morning, so she was like, excuse me, what, so - She was like, that's fucking sinister.
She was not happy, so she opened the door, and she found a slightly disheveled Herbert Mullen standing in front of her.
she kind of knew him, like she barely knew him, but she just kind of recognized him by sight, essentially.
So she tried to be a little polite because like she was kind of like, I think I knew you.
Yeah, he had actually come looking for Jim Gionera, who was the former occupant of this house.
And the guy who had first given Herbert Mullen his first joint back in high school.
Okay. Yeah. Wow. Yep.
How old is he at this point?
It's in his like early 20s?
Early 20s. I couldn't fucking tell you.
Early like mid 20s, I would say.
I have no idea who gave me my first joint and also...
That guy's fault. It's not that.
You took the joint, you smoked it, and that's not even the fucking problem here.
That's not even the issue.
Sometimes the stressors just start coming and they don't stop coming.
You know, you wake up late, your coffee machine's broken, you go to go get a coffee, and then the line's too long.
And then you're late for work.
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a complete stranger yeah and like she was like oh you're looking for your friend he kind of made it seem like i'm looking for a friend yeah like okay and she was like oh it's like a few blocks away he lives in a different house and then just closed the door and went back to bed now Herbert Mullen got back in his car and drove the seven miles to Jim and Joan Gianera's house on western drive.
Jim and Joan G, I'm obsessed.
Yeah this couple had bought the house some time earlier and had finally finished renovations and were able to move in a few months earlier.
Unfortunately since then Jim had struggled to find work and they'd run out of money.
So that January they'd been living without electricity.
Oh man. Now like Kathy Francis, Jim hadn't been expecting anyone that morning so the knock on the door was a little bit of a other, they went high school together yeah and but Jim recognized Herbert Mullen immediately but didn't invite him inside and out of nowhere Herbert just said I'm really pissed about the time I've been wasting and Jim was like sorry to hear, sorry sorry about that like okay like he was just confused like what and before Jim could say anything back to him because what the fuck was he gonna say the phone rang and so he was like excuse me I just have to answer the phone really
quick yeah and he went in to answer the phone and Herbert walked in the door and closed it behind him now Jim hung up the phone and turned around and was like what the fuck are you doing in my house I didn't invite you in yeah you can't walk in here and he was about to yell at him to leave and then he noticed the revolver in Herbert Mullan's hand and he turned to run and from behind Jim heard a crack and a bullet grazed his right arm oh man he made it to the kitchen and he flung the refrigerator door open hoping to shield himself but another bullet struck him in the left elbow shattering the bone.
Oh shit! Yeah, so he grasped at the counter for a knife or anything he could use to defend himself but he couldn't find anything and instead he just charged at Herb who simply sidestepped and then turned and shot Jim again, this time hitting him in the back.
And the bullet this time tore through his lung and sent him crashing into the stairs.
Oh my God. So Jim struggles and gets himself up, now his lung has been like shot like a bullet went through his lung.
He gets himself up the stairs in order to warn his wife.
Oh he heard the crack of the gun again as he's trying to get up the stairs and the bullet struck the door jamb above the door and like exploded the wood.
Now Joan had been showering when Herb arrived and the noise of the water blocked out all the chaos downstairs.
She didn't hear a lot of it.
So when she the door and stepped into the hallway in a towel.
She was shocked to see her husband, now stumbling towards her, blood was pouring from his left side and streaming out of his mouth.
Oh my god. He managed to shove Joan back into the bathroom and slammed the door and yelled at her to lock the door.
As he's bleeding to death.
Yeah and he like shoved his wife into the bathroom to like protect Oh my god!
And from inside the bathroom, Joan heard the gunfire two more times.
One bullet hit Jim in the stomach and the second went through his back and struck his heart and killed him.
Oh my god and she's just standing in the bathroom having no idea what the fuck is going on.
No idea who this man is.
Now from inside the bathroom - So Herb could hear Joan hysterically sobbing from inside the bathroom.
Oh my god! And so he just broke down the door.
With his hands and feet just kicked open the door.
Oh this is like a nightmare.
yeah once inside he aimed the gun at joan and fired three times quickly hitting her twice in the neck and once in the face just above her left eye oh my god he was never fully confident that a gun was sufficient for the purpose of sacrifice so he decided to take out his hunting knife that he had with him too and stabbed joan in the back three times once for equal each bullet But didn't do that to the husband?
What? He then collected the shell cases from the bathroom floor.
So he knows where his son is from.
And from the hallway, and then proceeded downstairs to collect the rest of them.
And he stuck the gun back into his waistband and then he noticed that a button from his coat was missing, but he was like, eh, whatever.
And he just left the house.
Good. Now, back at the Francis house, remember Cathy, who originally opened the door.
I would like to give a quick trigger warning this part is very upsetting Oh Back at the Francis house her two children had woken up and Kathy was doing her best to get nine -year -old David and four -year -old Damon ready for the day Yeah, nine -year -old Damon had had a cold the last few days and he looked like he was gonna be staying home from school one More day so she went out into the yard and found some kindling to get the fire started in the stove She'd just put down some breakfast for the boys when she heard a knock at the front door.
Oh... When she opened it, she was looking down the barrel of Herbert Mullin's gun.
Oh my god... Kathy didn't even have time to say a word before Herb fired the gun and hit her straight in the head.
Killed her immediately.
He stepped over her and he entered and closed the door behind him and he thought he was gonna find a husband or a boyfriend in the house and he realized that he heard voices but they were children's voices.
So just to just to be clear, remember before he was saying that he was considering like how morally wrong this felt and he wanted to find a morally righteous way of doing this.
I don't know what happened here.
He didn't stop to think about, you know, the moral implications of killing children here because he simply raised the gun and fired twice and hit both of them in the head, killing them instantly.
Oh my god. Then he walked around and stabbed each of them with the hunting knife to make sure that he had properly sacrificed.
And he also has, like no matter what, this is so fucked, but he has no idea who this even is.
No. So that's not, it's still not fitting the, the narrative that he's trying to, like, create.
What? A nine -year -old and a four -year -old.
And a four -year -old.
And their mother. And a nine year old.
Oh my god. Oh! Yeah.
Now, unlike the three previous victims who had yet to be linked, investigators immediately suspected the Giannares and the Frances had been killed by the same person because there was a personal connection between the victims and similar circumstances under which they had been killed.
The scenes of both murders were remarkably sparse when it came to evidence and in at least one of them, the Francis house, there looked like there was no struggle because there wasn't.
They just shot her in the face and then killed her two small children.
They did however note that the person connecting the families, Robert Francis, was unaccounted for and hadn't been seen in at least two days.
And a press release the following day, Sheriff Doug James stated there appear to be drug overtones in the case and when they did finally locate Robert Francis he was ruled out immediately as a suspect.
Now not wanting to cause panic, Santa Cruz police captain Dick Overton urged residents to quote unquote keep cool stay cool man just stay cool don't be all like uncool and they and he said just go about your daily lives as normal yeah two families have been slaughtered but like yeah keep it chill man and also he said this is not a case of somebody running amok and shooting people it's actually exactly what this is this thing has a pattern to it it's not a case of some crazy man running around shooting people you know it's that's literally exactly what it is sir, and what basis do you have what do
you talk about otherwise so since the murders of the ota family two years earlier we talked about them in uh part one yeah and the recent disappearances of a local a number of local college girls thanks to ed kemper santa cruz residents had started arming themselves i would which over to new increase the potential for an accidental shooting to happen but while his desire to avoid you know like panicking the public and having some accidents happen that could have some real consequences.
He was very wrong because this was one of the rare incidences of someone, quote, running amuck and shooting people at random.
This literally was.
Now the more time that passed, the more kind of like adept Herbert got at justifying his murders.
He was able to convince himself that, which shows you also that he was doing some real mental gymnastics here to make it.
and investigators shot and killed two kids there's what are you doing exactly an investigator's ability inability to connect the crimes only served as further evidence of his divine purpose in his mind he's not getting caught exactly by february he had stopped taking drugs all together and replaced his drug use with long hikes in the mountains around santa cruz which my goodness i wish you had done that your whole life yeah just do that instead Yes!
Literally take a hike!
Yeah, take a hike! Now, on the morning of February 10th, he went out for a hike in Henry Cowell State Park just off Highway 9, not far from where Lawrence White's body was discovered.
And these hikes, he said, gave him time away from his parents, you know, gave him peace, gave him a little quiet, made his head feel clear.
Why the fuck were you doing this forever?
So he loved these. Like this was his moment of, like, peace.
yeah, so he was very irritated when he came across four teenagers camping in the woods that morning.
Oh how dare they. Yeah how dare they do a thing they are allowed to do in nature.
Like what? Yeah the teens, 18 -year -old David Olicher, 18 -year -old Robert Spector, 19 -year -old Brian Scott Card, and 15 -year -old Mark Drabelbis I believe is how you say it, had come to the area a few days earlier and they'd been living at like um like they'd made themselves like a little lean to.
Oh okay. And when he came upon them that morning he was absolutely disgusted.
Because he saw a bunch of trash around the large tent, and he intended to speak to them about it.
So his initial thought was not to immediately kill them.
Yeah. Which is also interesting.
Or so he says, right?
Well he doesn't, initially.
Like that's, this isn't the first thing he does.
Okay. So he stands outside the tent, and he coughs loudly to get their attention.
And so they all made their way out of the tent, And he tells them, you're on public property and it is illegal to camp here and you're polluting the woods with your garbage and pick it up.
So they are teenage boys so they mocked him, which only made Herb angrier with them.
So he told them he was a park ranger and he was giving them until the next day to clear out the area or they'd be arrested, which is so weird, you know?
so he left the area and he continues his hike but he just couldn't get this interaction out of his mind.
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this is where the like the illness comes into play i feel yeah this is just me like speculating of course from afar um because it feels like he had like a moment of clarity of just being like uh curmudgeon there yeah like rah rah rah like yeah you dumb kids what are you doing And he was leaving, and then as he's leaving, it's like it clouded again.
And it's like that rain cloud set upon his brain and was like, no, no, no, like you need to be rational here.
And so it's very interesting to see how this all played out.
Yeah, it's like he it's like an urge that he just can't fight against. Yeah, it's very strange.
So he can't stop thinking about it, you know, in his head.
Here he is doing everything he can to protect the world from this impending natural disaster.
Here. And these teens are just throwing garbage all over the place and then mocking him when he shares his concerns about the environment.
What the fuck? Yeah.
Under a normal circumstance, you'd be like, yeah, that does suck.
Under a normal circumstance.
Under a regular Joe.
You know, you just go, What a shitty day.
Yeah. You'd be like, man, like you're though.
But him, you're like, fuck you dude.
Yup. So at first it occurred to Herb that he could just go back to the campsite and kill them all.
And then he was like, you know what, I can't do that because this would be a personal grievance and not keeping with my mission.
Wasn't the last murder a personal grievance?
Thank you. You're welcome.
Because Jim was the first person to give him a joint, which he considered the beginning of all this.
Which is that's a personal grievance, by definition.
That's not part of your mission.
Maybe he was feeling some type of way about that.
Yeah. I think he's just, um, a lying sack of shit.
And I think that he, by his own admission, he knows how to convince people of certain things.
Knows how to convince people that he's okay to be let out of a hospital.
He knows how to convince people to let them in the military.
He was really smart.
He's very smart. He's excelled in school.
One of the top students, great athlete.
Very manipulative. He admitted it himself.
That's how he got of the hospital is like hospitalizations every time multiple yeah so this to me feels like him later being like oh well this is why i didn't do it to make it seem like i'm still under that fog of like i have a personal mission like trying to make sure he stays in that narrative yeah but he forgot that he had fucked it up already like i think this is one of those like oops gotcha gotcha yeah yeah so that makes no sense no it doesn't oh so over the course of the afternoon he kept obsessing over this interaction, slowly convincing himself, of course, that while he had, you know,
it had been a bad interaction with him, with these kids, the fact remained that they were polluting the planet.
Mm -hmm. So sacrificing them to him felt like it made sense.
He eventually convinced himself that this was okay.
Okay. So later that night, he came back under the cover of darkness, came back into the park he hiked back out to the campsite and approached it he wanted to catch them off guard this is so scary yeah because they probably thought nothing else they forgot about him completely I bet you like they that just wasn't even a blip on their radar right but the fire was still burning when he found the camp and inside the tent he could hear them chatting and laughing with each other yeah so armed with a 22 caliber pistol he approached the tent and started unfastening the snaps that held the flaps closed.
Oh my god. He startled them obviously and as soon as the tent opened, none of them had a chance to say a word because he just started firing.
And all six shots hit their intended targets.
Each of them got hit in the head.
They all crumpled to the ground in a literal pile of bloody bodies.
Oh that's awful. And they're all, these are young kids.
Oh yeah they're teenagers and it's like they're in a pile now in this tent with down feathers everywhere cuz he shot through pillows, tattered sleeping bags, like what an awful scene.
So after shooting the boys he went through their pockets and took whatever money they had on them.
It's weird cuz I thought this was just for like, you know.
A mission. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
What did that do? I thought this was all for like higher moral purposes.
And then he just tossed their wallets on the and left. And oh he also grabbed a rifle that he found in the corner of the tent because he said they didn't need it anymore.
Oh wow this guy's a grade -A douchebag.
So, since he began his project of, you know, saving mankind in November he had killed 12 innocent people.
Wow. Very innocent people.
Chosen mostly at random.
Yeah. Since then his mental health had deteriorated considerably and it seemed like no matter what he did, the voices in his head were there.
Just demanding more.
Supposedly. Just three days after killing the boys in Henry Cowell State Park, he was out for a drive in Santa Cruz when the voice came into his thoughts again, demanding another sacrifice.
This is according to Herbert Millen, by the way.
Can we go back for a second?
Did he pick up the trash?
That's a great - He pick up the fucking trash?
That's a great question.
That's a great question.
What about all those down feathers?
Are those good for the feathers?
Yeah, that's polluting the environment.
What about all the trash you were so upset about?
And you just left the tent at all of it?
That's not bi -integratable.
Yeah, so fuck you. None of this is for what you're saying it's for.
It's ridiculous. Sorry, go ahead.
No, don't worry. Just needed to say that.
No, I'm glad you said it.
But so he's driving through Santa Cruz, he hears the voice saying you need to make another sacrifice.
And at first he said he thought about resisting.
I bet. But instead, he just pulled a U -turn and headed back into a quiet neighborhood that he'd just driven through.
Oh. Oh, as Herb drove slowly down the street, he spotted 72 year old Fred Perez.
Are you kidding me?
It's just standing on the sidewalk.
He was a long time resident of Santa Cruz, he had once been a successful heavyweight prize fighter.
Stop it - Before retiring from boxing and using his winnings to go into business for himself as a truck driver and a fishmonger.
His businesses were successful.
He was able to provide for his family and then finally he passed the business down to kids a few years later.
Oh it's not known what Fred was actually doing that afternoon, he was just hanging out on the sidewalk yeah but it's likely he didn't even notice the Chevy car like slow to a stop nearby and he definitely didn't notice the driver aim the 22 caliber rifle in his direction.
So he hit Fred Perez directly in the heart with a shot and killed him instantly on the sidewalk in his own neighborhood.
Just in his own neighborhood living his life like and he did everything he had like he had a successful career he provided for his family is retirement now past is and then he went into another business to like provide even more for his family and then pass that business onto his kids and he's just retired and just living that but this is totally about that this is definitely about that now and he so he was killed instantly on the sidewalk herb having done his what he considered his duty put it you know the safety back on the rifle, put it back in the trunk and left the seam calmly.
Just drove away. Insane.
So Fred Perez likely never saw his killer but someone else did.
That afternoon Fred's neighbors had been out in their garden and they saw Herbert Mullin drive by the - Who the fuck was a quiet neighborhood?
No you don't. We got neighborhood watch going on.
Fuck yeah I love my badass neighborhood.
Yup. I pull in my own neighborhood and I see people looking out their windows - Hell yeah.
So his neighbors watched the U -turn happen, they watched him slow to a stop a few yards from Perez, and they watched in horror as he was shot.
They also managed to write down his license plate number before he'd gotten too far down the street and immediately ran inside and called the police.
That is a real one.
Now, as luck would have it, the first officer to hear the report of the shooting go out over the radio was a patrol officer who was in the neighborhood where Perez lived.
Oh, wow. and within a minute of the shooting, Herbert Mullen was pulled over on the side of the road.
Wow. Within a minute.
One minute. Yep. When the officer approached the driver's window, he noted the man behind the wheel matched the description of the man who'd fled the scene of the Perez shooting.
And he noted the 22 caliber pistol laying on the passenger seat.
Yeah. In the days that followed, that pistol would be a match for the slugs found in nine murder victims but for the time being, the officer placed him under arrest for the murder of Fred Perez, effectively ending Herbert Mullin's five month murder spree that ended the lives of 13 people.
It's crazy all that happened in five months.
Yeah, yeah. Now, when he was arrested on February 13th, 1972, the bodies of Mary Gilfoyle, David Oeliker, Robert Spector, Brian Scott Card, and Mark Drebelbis had not been discovered yet.
Oh... But Santa Cruz police were still able to hold him for the murder of Fred Perez while they were still investigating.
In their interviews with those who knew Herbert Mullen, police learned very little about his background and any potential motive for these murders.
The owner of the Pacific View Motel where Herb had been staying for the last few days described him as an ordinary guy.
He said, he was real quiet.
We never saw him except when he came by the office to get his mail.
And a former classmate was equally shocked by this whole thing and told reporters that Herbert Mullen was extremely bright and very popular in high school.
He said, Herb always seemed to be uptight, but he was popular.
Which is so wild. That is really wild.
While reporters just went ham trying to get information about the accused killer, detectives were busy linking the gun back to the Francis and Gianara murders.
On the afternoon of February 15th, he was brought before a municipal court judge and arraigned for the murders of Fred Perez, Jim and Joan Gionera, and Kathy, David, and Damon Francis, which kills me.
When asked if he had anything to say, he said, in accordance with the Fifth Amendment, I will make no statement.
Okay, cool you little b***h.
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The next day, fingerprints found in the confessional at St. Mary's Church were determined to be a match for Herbert Mullin, and he was charged with the murder of Father Henri Tomeh.
What a way to find that, that's great.
The arrest of Herbert Mullin came as a big relief to the residents of Santa Cruz.
Unfortunately, they did not know at the time that there was Definitely another killer on the loose.
Yeah. They had not got Edmund Kemper at that point, but the motive for the murders was still a mystery.
Nobody could understand this was so random.
And Herbert Mellon wasn't talking.
So Peter Chang, who was the district attorney at the time, told reporters, the motive for these slayings is not clearly defined, but it appears that each of these people was an acquaintance of the suspect at some time during troublesome phases of his life.
Not all of them at all.
Yeah. so it's like the logic to the logic I guess like you want I don't know it doesn't make any sense again seems like they were just trying to make people feel better I think it made sense about random crime yeah it made sense in the killings of you know the Gianeras and the Francises yes he did have an acquaintance there but it didn't explain the murder of Fred Perez or Father Tomei or Mary Guilfoyle or Lawrence White or the boys in the woods like None of those made sense.
Yeah, that's exactly.
Yeah. According to Santa Cruz Sheriff's detective, Ken Pittinger who spoke with Herbert Mullen's family and former friends, Herbert quote, freaked out on acid during a visit to San Francisco's hate Ashbury district two years after his high school graduation in 1965 which apparently could have accounted for his random and extremely violent behavior.
I'm going to go with no. I'm like, i know that it didn't help no it didn't help but there there was definitely other stuff here yeah that's not that like yeah everybody knows a lot of people who have had a bad trip yeah you can't count a murder spree you can't blame it on that no no so the picture became even more opaque a few days later when the bodies of the four teenagers were discovered by brian scott kard's brother jeffrey in the woods he had not seen or heard from the group in two weeks so jeffrey card hitchhiked from los Angeles to Santa Cruz to the camp site where he found his brother
and three friends dead in the kit in the tent Oh, it's awful that he had to be There was no evidence found at the scene to link Mullan to the killings, but investigators suspected He might be the one responsible anyways and the body of Mary Guilfoyle had been discovered in the mountains a few days earlier Oh god, which must have been horrific.
Yeah and Herb was suspected in that killing as well and in a statement to the press Chang referred to the murders as a quote psychopathic type of killing, and the link to Herbert Mullen was entirely speculative at this point.
Because it was. They didn't have any evidence.
Within a few days of finding the teenagers in the woods, the murders of all four boys were linked back to Herbert Mullen through the .22 -caliber revolver used in the other killings, and four more counts of murder were added to him.
Additionally, the rifle used in the murder of Fred Perez as was soon traced back to the teenagers, because, remember, he took it from their tent.
Which only strengthened the case against Mullin in the murders of David Olicher, Robert Spector, Brian Scott Card, and Marc Drebelbas.
Now after a brief delay, Herbert Mullin finally appeared in court in mid -June, and he entered a plea of innocent by reason of insanity.
That plea obviously required the trial to go in two phases.
One, to hear evidence of a diminished capacity, the second to determine guilt.
By the time the case went to trial in early August, Herbert Mullen had been linked to the murders of Lawrence White and Mary Guilfoyle, bringing his victim count to 13, though he had only been charged with 10 murders at trial.
Now, at trial, one of Herb's evaluating psychiatrists, Dr. Charles Morris, laid out his motives based on what Mullen had told him during their consultations.
He said, I think he premeditated, considered it, and went ahead and did it.
Dr. Morris explained that Herb had sought revenge against Jim Gianera for quote, leading him down the garden path to drug use and he had killed the Francis family to get rid of any witnesses because he had already knocked on that door.
Which means that tells you what that he knew what he was doing.
He knew that was wrong.
And he tried to cover it up.
As for the boys in the woods, Morris claimed Herb, quote, had a thing out for hippies and since these people were hippies, it was a good time to do away with them.
I feel like it's not even like a thing for hippies, he was just pissed about the trash.
I think he just wanted to.
Basically, Dr. Morris didn't believe that Herb was criminally insane at the time of the murders.
Agreed. Rather, he had been under considerable emotional strain and ultimately killed Fred Perez in order to get caught.
Yeah, they think he literally did that to get caught.
Do you think so? I have no idea, honestly, with that one.
I can see both sides of that argument, because one he does these I mean he did I mean he did it to Lawrence White he did it right on the side of the road he hit him with the bat.
But it was a little more of a uh off to the side kind of thing.
This was in a residential neighborhood on the sidewalk and he was calm as a cucumber right.
So, and I have to wonder did he even did he see the neighbors?
You might have even seen the neighbors and been like, I don't know.
Yeah, it is interesting to think about.
Because I do believe he is a mentally unstable mentally ill man for sure.
I don't think you can argue that.
I just don't think he's insane.
Those are two different things.
I can see both sides of the argument with the did he do it intentionally to get caught thing.
I can see it being that I could see it just being - Coincidence.
a coincidence now mullen took the stand to testify in his own defense a few days later and did his best to refute much of what the doctor said according to mullen quote he didn't think it was right to kill and he had gone to a los gatos church to give him strength to never attempt to kill again apparently that didn't work because then you killed a priest yeah in the church so like i don't know how much ground you have to stand on there yeah and then continued to kill many, many people.
Exactly. Over the course of several hours, he went on to claim that he was commanded to kill by the voices in his head, which sounds a lot like someone who is trying to get that insanity defense.
And he gave what one reporter referred to as quote a rambling answer complete with biblical references, which is kind of textbook kind of textbook.
His testimony was often unfocused, very incoherent, frequently contradicted himself, You know, that kind of thing.
For example when asked why he killed the four young campers in the woods he said, quote, I had been arrested in 1968 for camping in possession of marijuana and it bothered me that they should get away with it.
Did he have weed? I'm sorry, what I thought it was the polluting.
Yeah. Like what are you talking about?
And at no point earlier did he say they had marijuana on them.
No, and it's like now you're saying that you were annoyed that they were allowed to camp there and you got in trouble for it so you killed them.
What? Yeah, like hello?
Yeah. And in that way, he said he was enforcing the law.
No, that's not how the law works, actually, at all.
But then, only a short time later, he said something different about it.
He said he, quote, received a telepathic message from the young men saying it was alright to kill them.
So he did. It sounds like he just had an urge to kill people and follow through on that urge.
And he tried to come up with a reason for it.
He tried to explain it.
Yeah. On August 19th, the jury deliberated briefly before finding Herb guilty on two counts of first -degree murder and eight counts of second -degree murder, effectively removing the question of diminished capacity from the case.
The jury appears to have recognized that he definitely struggled with mental illness.
No one is disagreeing with that, but they believed there was sufficient evidence to suggest he knew what he was doing and he knew that it was morally and legally wrong, like literally walked around a couple of scenes and picked up shell casings.
He got rid of witnesses.
He got rid of the whole friends, he got rid of children because he didn't, he knew they could point and say, he showed up at my door.
Right? Like, come on.
In a statement to the press, Herbert Mullin's attorney said, he felt the jury had not wanted to find him criminally insane because he might end up being released at some point in the future.
He told reporters, if a man found innocent by reason of insanity, went to a hospital and was never going to get out, i think we'd have a lot more insanity verdicts.
I don't think that's the case.
I think they think he knew what he was doing was wrong.
And baby girl, why don't you look up the definition of legally insane?
Exactly like don't sit here and try to say like they just don't want them to get out of prison and get out of the hospital.
It's like no, we're just looking at the definition of legally insane.
And depending it on the jury like that is just such a cop -out.
Yeah, like fuck you.
You failed. Well and also just days after the verdict, jury foreman Ken Springer wrote a letter to the governor expressing his outrage that no one had intervened to prevent this loss of thirteen lives like no one had intervened in Herbert Mullins life yeah and made this stop he wrote I hold the state executive and state legislative offices as responsible for these ten lives as I do the defendant himself none of this need ever have happened and he cited his multiple hospitalizations and releases as missed opportunities to keep killer off the street.
That's the thing like the the defense attorney there wants to point to the jury as having it be there called.
It's like no it's actually a system failure like it is most of the time.
Very much a systemic failure here.
Yeah, and he was just pointing to what would continue to be a systematic failure because a lot of times people who are proven criminally insane do go to these hospitals and they do get let out.
Yeah. And the whole fucking issue starts up again.
Yeah the cycle begins again.
Right so it is a systematic failure.
Yeah. He wrote in the letter According to testimony at his trial, Herbert Mullen could and did respond favorably to treatment of his mental illness.
Yet the laws of the state certainly prohibit officials from forcing continued treatment of his illness and I have the impression that they, as a matter of fact, discouraged continued treatment by state and county institutions.
Which like, all right Ken, I know that's like good for you writing to your governor and being like, fuck y 'all.
Like, like these 13 people didn't have to die.
More people need to do shit like that.
because it's like, this is a failure on many levels.
Herbert Mullin was ultimately sentenced to life in prison and sent to Mule Creek State Prison in Lone to serve out his sentence.
He tried many times to gain parole, but he was repeatedly deemed unsuitable by the parole board and denied.
While at Mule Creek he corresponded regularly with supporters outside the prison that's absolutely fucking skunkers.
and even attempted to find a wife.
did he? no. in 1987 he placed an ad in the scots valley banner.
why is that allowed?
and he wrote seeking an Irish wife and he described himself as 40 years old I'm 14 years in prison I desire to sire children now.
no thank you. you killed children.
yeah absolutely not.
crazy the ad was unsuccessful.
that's wild. I know.
Also saying sire children is fucking nuts.
I gotta go. On August 18, 2022.
Yeah, recently Herbert Mullen died of natural causes at the California health care facility in Stockton at 75 years old.
Unfortunate he got to live his life out that long and die of natural causes.
Very, very unfortunate.
I hate that he got to live.
I do too. But because also he outlived Fred Perez and that makes me angry because Fred was 72 yeah I'm like fuck you a lot of times actual justice is just really never served it's hard to come by sometimes yeah I mean at least you went to prison but yeah just the fact that somebody like that shouldn't have had access to put an ad out for a wife no like I don't understand I obviously like prison shouldn't be this like horrible like throw away the key you know yeah like yeah should be like is supposed to be.
It should be for a reform to a degree, and we've had that conversation so many times.
But I just don't feel like somebody of that level of lack of humanity should be able to put a fucking ad out for a wife.
Exactly, I totally agree.
Should he be able to take a class and maybe better his mind a little bit?
Exactly, like that kind of thing, no. Putting out a personal ad, like really?
We're trying to do that?
Like, come on. No, absolutely not.
Ridiculous. Well, that was a crazy tale.
Yeah, that's Herbert Mullen.
With all that being said.
We hope you keep listening.
And we hope you Keep It Weird. But not so weird that you go to prison after murdering a bunch of people and then place a note on your local paper saying that you want to sigh your children.
Gross. With an Irish wife.
Yeah, so specific. Yeah, adorable.
Strange and upsetting.
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Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect.
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So I went to Instagram and she has no Instagram anymore, and Facebook, no Facebook anymore.
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