Hey weirdos, it's Ash.
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Hey, Weirdos, I'm Ash.
And I'm Alayna. And this right here that you're listening to in your car, in your house.
What'd you say? At this moment.
At this moment is morbid.
i thought you said at a sporting event at a sporting i said why is somebody listening to morbid at a sporting event you don't know speaking of sporting events elena took me to my first celtics game yay i had so much fun it is i love the celtics i had a real ghost sports moment yeah you did you were jumping up and yelling about fouls by the end of it you were bullshit bullshit i was so excited for you i was like look at her she's she's into it yeah it was fun it's true i used to like going weirdly i never went to the basketball games in high school because i like didn't give a shit but in middle
school i loved it that's amazing in middle school i loved it so hard i felt heavy with it hell yeah yeah it's fun the celtics are awesome um and i won't hear anything to the contrary about that never i mean just based off stats alone yeah listen to me look at that number two look at those stats oklahoma go fuck yourself go fuck yourself look at me talking trash talking trash about sports it's fun yeah it's fun yeah when you get to hear how uh gnarly bostonians are oh my god the crowd at a celtics game the crowd at this one in particular honey it went it went off it went hard it did go out of the pink
head yeah Yeah. It's, it's a lot of fun.
I know. I love it. The girls got to do a, um, a little thing separately during a couple of games.
Um, they got, we like entered them into a thing where they got to high five the players.
Oh my God. That's so cute.
And they fucking loved it.
It's the cutest thing in the entire world.
Can you enter me into that?
Yeah. So you can high five the players.
I want to high five the players.
Is it for children only or is it for new sports fans?
It's for children only.
I could, I could just crouch. Just crouch down.
Like, good luck guys.
yay like what the fuck is that woman doing you're like go sports what a visual that page I am visualizing it right now I just got banned from every you just got put on a list they're like no no no I don't want to do that but I do want to go back oh and I love it my kids call uh Jason Tatum jayden it was so hard to not yell that out during the game i know every time i see him i want to be like jayden but i'm like your name is jason sorry uh but yeah go celtics and um and yeah i don't think is there any other bit nasty really um i don't know uh ghost posted our episode yesterday Yesterday, unexpectedly,
the actual ghost account and I died a thousand deaths.
So here I am. Hell yeah.
A thousand deaths less than I was yesterday.
You only have how many more lives?
I have no idea where I started.
You're bigger than a cat.
I am. It's so funny the different places that we were about to go that you were like, what else do we have?
And you went into ghost and I was about to say, oh, star is coming up.
So there's that. We are different people.
Equally as important.
It is. so there you go go paint some eggs yeah put some rabbits out yeah fake ones stuff fake ones don't just put your rabbits out people just walk outside and put their rabbits out i don't know you don't know your fucking life we really don't and you know you know whose life i really don't know and confirm who's herbert mullins okay so i think his life is lawless here's the thing i I genuinely don't know his life.
I can recognize the name.
I genuinely don't know his life.
I know the name and I know that I've heard probably this case before, but I cannot remember the details.
I cannot. It's a, it's a wild one.
Yeah. So it makes sense that you genuinely don't know his life, but that you've heard the name because he's definitely up there.
He's very brutal. he's very prolific in his numbers and he was committing crimes at the same time as edmund kemper oh they got a little conflated it's one of those things where it's like everyone really knows edmund kemper's name for his crimes but i think this one got a little pushed to the side which is when you hear this story you're gonna be like i'm sorry what i almost wonder too if you mentioned him when we did ed kemper i think i did mention him yeah because i think there was some like confusion which with victims and like what was going on they were committing their crimes at the same
time period in the same area okay so there was a lot of confusion damn over what the fuck was like one of our earliest episodes i think he's like number three yeah he's very early and um herbert mullen though is called the killer hippie which is quite a moniker that's such a bummer yeah and he was like you're not a hippie if you're a murderer and he's a he's a gnarly guy oh no uh but he's also um very very mentally ill oh uh there's a lot happening in this okay um very scary stuff and it was exacerbated as we'll see by like psychedelic drugs and stuff so that's when you're already mentally ill
taking psychedelic drugs can potentially be harmful yeah just watch yellow jackets there you go you should because it's really good i'm in season for once i've I've turned Elena on to your show and Mikey as well.
And I hold the power because I'm caught up and they're not.
It's true. But we're coming up.
We're coming up to being caught up.
Almost. We're getting there.
So in the minds of many, the 1960s was definitely a decade that, like you, you know, you love a hippie.
I do. The 60s was a time that was dominated by hippie culture.
Free love, baby. Yeah, exactly.
Free love. And there was a lot of like, you know, attempts to advance progressive ideas and like, you know, this new generation of young people was trying to make shit happen.
There's like a lot, when you go back into the 60s, a lot of shit was happening.
There was a lot of cultural changes happening.
You know, it's a very interesting decade for sure.
But while it is true that the heyday of the baby boomers was one of considerable social and cultural change it's also an era where some of the darkest parts of humanity became impossible for a lot of americans to ignore yeah like it really was the time beginning in the mid -60s violent crime and homicide rates were spiking in the u .s and they were honestly reaching like kind of shocking heights at this point because remember this is when suddenly it became like oh maybe we shouldn't hitchhike as much as we are kind of thing and it really reached shocking heights in the 80s before starting like
a little bit of a downward trend in the 90s i miss the 90s the number of violent crimes and murders committed buried by city and state but you were struggling with the problem of violence more than sorry california yeah it happens it was rough out there beginning in the 60s california and the bay area more specifically became a real mecca for hippies and other young people that were drawn to the culture that rejected conservative standards and morals in favor of more permissive behaviors.
Unfortunately, it wasn't long before the state, which was once synonymous with free love, became known for producing some of the nation's most notorious serial killers.
Beginning in the mid -60s, a man who would eventually call called himself the Zodiac, started out on a series of murders that would keep the region locked in a grip of terror for nearly a decade.
And then they just simply vanished.
As we know, to this day, we are in the year of our Lord, 2025, and we still have no fucking clue who the Zodiac Killer is.
A few years later, in 1968, you might know this name too, Charles Manson and his disciples committed a series of crimes that culminated in a horrific mass murder, effectively ending the era of free love and bringing in, kind of ushering in an era of fear, paranoia, and suspicion.
To the south in the LA area, Juan Corona went on a four -month killing spree that claimed the lives of 25 men.
Oh, wow. The same time that that was happening, another serial killer who we just recently covered, Rodney Alcala, the dating game killer, committed the first of what would be many, many, many brutal murders.
And the so -called Southern California strangler, Randy Kraft, who we have not covered, set out on a rampage that claimed the lives of at least 16 people.
And this was all in, like, a very short period of time.
It was just mayhem.
Over the course of the 70s, the list of L .A.
area serial killers would grow to include some of the most notorious in the nation's history.
But maybe the most shocking and perplexing murders of the era were taking place between the state's two iconic cities in a largely suburban area, Santa Cruz County.
Santa Cruz is also, I think, is supposed to be the influence of Santa Carla in Lost Boys, being like the murder capital of the world.
That's Santa Cruz. So located about 60 miles outside of San Francisco, Santa Cruz has long served as a more suburban commuter city for those working in but not wanting to live in san francisco in 1970 it was home to a wide range of people from unemployed college students to the highest paid surgeons essentially like in everything in between and within a few years unlike nearby san francisco santa cruz was becoming very quiet very peaceful it was like a very nice place to live but then within a few few more years, it feels like it kind of just happened in like a slow burn at the other end of the spectrum.
It became known to many in California and the United States as the murder capital of the world.
Yep. Or Santa Carla.
Now, for the most part, residents of Santa Cruz thought of crime as something that happened, you know, elsewhere in places like San Francisco.
This is before it became known what it was known as.
You know, they were thinking San Francisco is where that happens, you know, where the Zodiac was killing young couples and terrorizing residents with, you know, threatening letters to the press and cryptics and all that.
But on the night of October 19, 1970, murder came right to Santa Cruz when Dr. Victor Oda, his wife, and their two young sons and the doctor's secretary were found murdered in the family's swimming pool and their house was set ablaze.
Oh my god. On the windshield of Oda's car was a typewritten letter threatening violence again, quote, against, quote, persons who misuse the natural environment.
And it was signed with several hand -drawn tarot symbols.
What? Tarot symbols?
Yep. Okay. That is not at all where I thought we were going.
No. And about a week after that, Santa Cruz police arrested 24 -year -old John Lindley Frazier, a local man known for his very erratic behavior and a passion for environmental causes and his obsession with the Bible.
And it would turn out that the murder of the Ota family was just the beginning.
In the three years that followed, a number of young women from the Santa Cruz area went missing.
And their bodies were discovered months or years later showing signs of extreme violence.
The murder of these young women would eventually be a tribute to Edmund Kemper.
This, we know Edmund Kemper if you listen to the episode, but he was a local man who was, you know, So one of the things that was very interesting about him is that he was very friendly with the local police.
Yeah. Hung out with them at the bars, wanted to be a police officer, but he was literally too big to be a police officer, like too tall.
His stature is insane.
But he also had a history of violent antisocial behavior that eventually culminated in a horrific series of murders.
Now, in the cases of, you know, Fraser and Kemper, each had a particular victim type that, upon consideration, made sense given their pathology, when you could attribute beat it to that.
This hardly made residents of Santa Cruz feel safer, but it did kind of suggest that some people were safer than others.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Which often happens with these things, and it gave the illusion that as long as residents avoided certain behaviors or activities, they could maybe avoid danger.
It reminds you of the Son of Sam case where girls were going out and dying their hair.
Yes, like if you see any kind of pattern happening, you try to get away away from it yeah now unfortunately while fraser was killing those he believed to be polluters and harming the environment and kemper was killing young women there was another killer or you know perhaps killers at work in the santa cruz area and unlike the victims of fraser and kemper these victims seem to be completely random okay like chosen completely just like luck of the draw although it would take time for investigators to realize they were dealing with more than one one killer because there were several going on at once.
By early 1973, at least 13 basically unrelated murders committed in Santa Cruz in the preceding year would be now attributed to 26 -year -old Herbert Mullen.
26 years old. Yeah, 26 years old.
That is so young. Right?
Yes. Isn't that crazy?
And that's at least 13 were attributed to him that they thought were totally unrelated because there was no pattern here.
Right. It was just mayhem.
Just out whim. So let's talk about Herbert Mullen a little bit already born in Salinas California on April 14th 1947 he his early life was by most accounts fairly ordinary and unremarkable um the most remarkable thing about his birth was that it occurred exactly 41 years to the day after the San Francisco earthquake of 1906 oh seems kind of like random to mention that and you're like what cool yeah but it comes into play in a big very big way in his behavior later uh so hold on to that little nugget okay at home the mullen family seemed to be the picture perfect conservative american family uh
the dad martin was a veteran of world war ii he was stern he was strict um definitely met the definition of you know mid -century american masculinity Oh, good.
Yeah. Awesome. According to author Ryan Green, quote, Martin did show his son affection where he could.
Okay. He shared stories with him about his experiences in the war, taught him how to fire a gun, and even engaged in playful boxing matches with the young boy in the kitchen while their dinner was being cooked.
So he sounded like he was like a pretty all right dad.
Yeah. yeah so martin mullen was definitely the head of the households because that's the way it was back then but herbert's mother jean was responsible for much of the children's education and their spirituality okay jean mullen was a devout catholic and she took her faith very seriously and she literally like she was one of those that i don't want to hear you questioning anything about my beliefs.
Yikes. Like don't question it, believe it, take what I say as the word and that's it.
Whether you have questions or not, I want to hear it.
That's just not the way to teach anybody anything.
Yeah, that's not great.
You have to, because if people have questions about something, you should be able to answer them.
Yep. hey there my weird weirdos i want to take a minute to recommend another podcast called who took misty copsy in september of 1992 14 year old misty copsy leaves the washington state fair with her best friend and is never seen again her body is never found at the time western Eastern Washington is home to prolific serial killers like the Green River Killer, which leads to different theories on who's responsible for what happened to Misty.
Over the course of eight episodes, host and cold case investigator Sarah Kalin speaks with Misty's friends and family, looks at police records and different anonymous tips to try to figure out if Misty's disappearance is the work of a serial killer or someone who knew her.
No suspects are ruled out.
After 33 years, Sarah Kalin hopes to answer the question, who took Misty?
you guys are going to love this if you listen to morbid we know that you love a cold case and we always tell you a cold case is never cold so definitely give this a listen definitely look into the case listen to who took misty copsy wherever you get your podcasts life doesn't happen bi -weekly so why should payday the money that you earn can be in your hands today with earnin earnin is an app that gives you access to your pay as you work up to 150 per day with a max of $750 between paydays.
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Now, according to Green, she portrayed the outside world as a dangerous and unhappy place where anything could happen.
And she was insistent upon bringing the children to church every Sunday.
Which that, you're like, you know what, she's trying to keep them safe.
She's being for real.
Yeah. And she believes in Catholicism, so she's bringing the kids to church every Sunday.
Like, okay. But you don't need to teach your little tiny kids how unsafe and unhappy the world is.
That's the thing. You got to let them have a little bit of - Imagination.
Rose -colored glasses on for a little while.
Right. So young Herbert followed his parents' rules, but he was also pretty smart.
Yeah. Like, he was a very smart child.
That tends to happen.
Yeah. And he also asked a lot of challenging questions because as a smart kid, you ask a lot of questions about the world around you because you want to understand more.
And he was really questioning when it came to religion.
The result of this challenging personality was almost always punishment from his mother, who deemed her son to be blasphemous for asking questions i don't understand what's blasphemous about that yeah especially if he's trying to understand it's not that he's questioning it like to be a dick he's just like i'm trying to get this he's just trying to understand it better like you should have the answers for him right and help him understand according to green this is where mullins um kind of like disordered and paranoid and conspiratorial thinking came from i I mean, yeah, here is is her because he
basically says he had discovered the truth about the world and he was being punished for it.
Like so him questioning things that he's seeing, he's being punished for that.
So, of course, he's going to sit there and be like, what are you all hiding?
And of course, yeah, that's going to create paranoia.
Of course. Now, in truth, it's pretty unclear when he started showing signs of mental illness or paranoia like nobody knows exactly when it started.
But it does appear as though his personality definitely started started changing when he entered adolescence which is pretty common yeah things really come out at that time um but particularly when it came to his relationship with his parents so herb started to believe his parents were sabotaging his attempts at making friends he even believed so far that his parents were going door to door in the neighborhood asking people to ignore him oh that's really sad yeah but and this is wild things were very very different at school because he was very well liked by his peers and he was regarded as a generally
good student as by his teachers.
So he was super successful at school.
He was even successful in afterschool sports.
And like, so he was good at academics and sports and he became one of the school's top athletes.
So he's killing it at school and doing really well in sports.
His his peers like him and then he goes home and he's being treated like an asshole for asking questions and he doesn't think anybody likes him yeah even though he's like having positive experiences and I don't know if it's like he didn't think anybody liked him in the neighborhood or like people like you know what I mean like but then he goes to school and gets like a little more because I'm not really sure that's interesting but as he entered his teen years his conservative worldview that he'd kind of been had been forced upon him by his parents yeah started to fade a little bit and it was giving
way to more liberal and progressive perspectives of his friends.
Like, you know, he was becoming a hippie in the 60s.
You know, it was one of those.
And he attended San Lorenzo Valley High School in San Francisco.
He had definitely always been a little suspicious of his parents' ideologies, like as evidenced by him constantly challenging them and questioning them.
And this new ideology that he was starting to adopt was only leading to more fights at home.
I'm sure. And in turn, this further fueled his belief that even his parents disliked him.
But his success at school did, you know, make these stressors at home a little easier to cope with because he was starting to see, like, I am getting positive stuff at school, so, like, I can't be all bad.
And he can kind of escape at school.
Yeah. And in fact, by the time he was 16 years old, he was voted most likely to succeed in school.
Whoa. Yeah. That's chilling.
Isn't that wild? Yes.
Now, any pride that he had in his academic and social performance at school was cut short in 1965.
And this is when his best friend, Dean Richardson, died unexpectedly.
Oh, that's awful. He was only a teenager.
Yeah. During the last couple of years in high school, they had become nearly inseparable, and they had even been accepted to the same college.
Then in early September, Dean, his best friend there, was riding his motorcycle with his sister on the back when he was cut off by a driver who crashed into a tree.
The driver of the car and his girlfriend were killed instantly, and Dean was transported to the hospital but ended up dying of his injuries on September 9th.
That's really sad. Yeah, and Dean's sister, Mardeen, would be the only one that survived that whole crash.
Wow. Which is lucky for her being on the back of that bike.
Yeah, that's not something that you would expect.
No. Now, until Dean's death, Herbert had had only demonstrated, you know, some quirky tendencies and, you know, occasionally what was seen as a challenging personality.
Nothing that would really indicate any kind of chronic mental health issue or anything like that.
But after Dean died, his grief and inability to manage his emotions became very apparent.
According to Green, almost overnight his bedroom was converted into a vast shrine for his dead friend so to me it sounds like he was just not given the tools to process this and was not given like an open line of communication to process it well it's probably hard too because he's questioning his religious beliefs that's the thing like his spirituality dies and he's probably just wondering like where's my friend where do i yeah where do i put this grief where are they somewhere else are they just gone that's hard yeah especially at any age but but especially at such a young age.
Yeah. And well, in his inability to manage his grief and process it and just to like move forward with his life was taking a toll on his relationships with friends.
And even his girlfriend at the time, he had a girlfriend at the time who, and she apparently quote complained about his obsessive behavior over some dead boy.
That's like his best friend.
So, so rather than confront his ongoing difficulty in accepting Dean's death, Herbert explained to his girlfriend that he was quote, becoming homosexual okay it doesn't work like that which in his mind was the only possible explanation for his intense emotional reaction because he just wasn't so sad taught differently and you also wonder if that was like projected at home well that's i wonder if that was part of some of the uh things he would challenge or question and wasn't getting answers for and was kind of being taught that one because he made his bedroom like a shrine who knows how his parents
felt about that yeah i think there was a lot of probably confusing things being taught to him so he was just like oh well that's what's happening right like which is because you can love somebody but not be in love with them exactly like he was clearly confused about his feelings exactly and he wasn't getting somebody to sit him down and say like it's okay like you loved him and that doesn't mean you were in love with him right you know and if you are great feel your feelings you know but in reality he was a teenage boy who was forced to confront the existential crisis of death in a particularly
cruel and unexpected way.
This came out of nowhere.
And he was lacking the emotional tools or support that he needed to manage this.
So it's like, of course, he's going to come to some random conclusions because of it.
And so his emotions just got away from him, basically.
And within a few weeks after the funeral, he started seeking a religious or spiritual path to understand death.
So that really was part of the issue.
It was like, I just don't understand this.
That makes sense. Unfortunately, and much to his mother's disappointment, he didn't turn to Catholicism.
Instead, he turned to Eastern religions and New Age spiritual practices that were growing in popularity with young people at the time.
Not surprisingly, the idea of reincarnation was particularly appealing to him because of, you know, the recent loss.
In the mid -1960s, and honestly, like pretty much today too, Western audiences had minimal insight into non -Western religions and tended to understand them through the lens of christianity the result was essentially a spiritual practice that looked decidedly foreign and mystical but was otherwise fairly christian and bad practice um also the lack of insight or any kind of like real information into these practices typically meant that white practitioners of these took it upon themselves to just kind of like fill in the gaps with their own ideas and beliefs wash it which like you know yeah so for herb
the lack lack of available information simply meant that he needed to go to Asia to learn more about the practices that he had become so taken with.
Wow. Okay. Yeah. Which like at this point, you're like, okay, go to Asia.
Learn about that. Like whatever makes you feel good.
But his parents were not thrilled about his interest in Eastern religions and refused to help him travel there or learn any more about it.
That's dumb. Instead, his father encouraged him to join the military.
That will not help.
Because he was arguing, well, you could travel and learn more about the real world.
But to Herbert, a hippie with an interest in progressive ideologies, the idea of joining the military during the ramp up of an immoral foreign war was pretty incomprehensible.
And especially somebody already struggling with their emotional stability.
Yeah. That's not a great time to join the military.
Definitely not. Instead, he turned to drugs and started experimenting heavily with LSD and other hallucinogens just to try to expand his mind, man.
Also not a great time to do psychedelic drugs.
Yeah, I don't think that was the answer that we were looking for here.
No. Now, under the best of circumstances, hallucinogenic drugs are unpredictable and can have lasting, very bad consequences.
For Herbert Mullen, a person who'd been showing signs of an early -onset psychotic disorder, they almost certainly hastened his downward spiral into complete instability.
mobility. In the years that followed Dean's death, his behavior became increasingly bizarre and inappropriate, all while his friends and former classmates put more and more distance between themselves and Herbert.
In one instance, following his breakup with his high school girlfriend, he approached his older sister to ask for sex. Whoa.
Yeah. That happened so fast. yeah that really it really popped off right there so what herbert's sister told their mother about what had just been asked of her and jean mullen refused to believe that such a thing could be true and decided her daughter was being spiteful and trying to get herbert in trouble that's not the stance you should take on that matter that's fucked up in a way i can't even and describe gene mullen it's fucked up that that happened to her and that yeah and then her mother was like mom was like you just want to get herbert you're being spiteful it's like damn you really assume
the worst in people girl well and what's worse is in the months after that the scene repeated itself several times oh no herb would brazenly proposition his older sister for sex and she would inform her parents each time happening and gene and martin refused to believe their daughter why would she keep saying this right why would she ever say that never mind continue to and after so long of this she was like i can't handle this anymore i can't be in this house anymore so she convinced her boyfriend to marry her so she could move out with him and not piss off her parents you know the religious
thing of like you can't move out unless you're getting married oh my god so she convinced her her boyfriend please marry me so i can get out I gotta get out of here.
That is so awful. Now, between his inappropriate sexual behavior, the increasingly bizarre thought patterns, and his growing obsession with reincarnation, one would assume it would have occurred to either one of his parents that, like, something was wrong here.
Yeah. Like, he's not entirely mentally sound right now.
But at no point did either parent, up till this point, attempt to get help for their son or even speak to him about his mental health.
What the fuck? Despite him obviously, like, devolving here.
Tripping balls and losing his mind and sexually assaulting his sister.
And in fact, it took until 1969, after four years of his obvious decline, that anyone would do anything to intervene.
They just ignored him before that.
One afternoon, in anticipation of Herbert's older sister and her new husband coming back for dinner to the house, house gene mullen asked him to help clean up the house before anyone arrived and he didn't mind this like he always liked doing that stuff um he said he found it calming like cleaning um a good time you know and not a lot not a lot of things were calming him at this point um so he was fine he did his job he was happy to do it and when his sister and her husband arrived a few hours later at first he was totally fine like very docile very you know totally normal but then his demeanor totally
switched because again he was very polite and greeting everyone as they entered the house and then all of a sudden martin noticed that while herbert was acting normally with everyone else it appeared that he was perfectly mirroring his brother -in -law's behavior when they interacted oh that's so fucking creepy isn't that like beyond that's chilling yes oh what the fuck later as his sister first of all his sister was probably losing her mind and then the brother -in -law there?
He's probably like, what the fuck?
What is going on? Yeah.
And it's later, Martin Mullen would describe his behavior not as malicious or mocking, but as compulsive.
And he said, quote, almost supernatural to observe.
What? Now, Herbert mimicked his brother -in -law's every move and mannerism, no matter how small, with almost no delay, like he could anticipate them before it happened.
What? And over the course of the dinner, everyone at the table was was picking up on this but it was his mother's reaction that seemed to snap him out of it because unlike everyone else at the dinner table who reacted to the display like just kind of like like they said like literally with like uneasy like chuckling kind of like okay like what you doing uh yeah if they if they even acknowledged it at all because some of them were just not gonna even bring it up yeah jean mullen went into a near hysterical panic and said her son son was possessed girl babe he's mentally ill and he needs help sounds
like she's also mentally yeah now the next day gene contacted the family doctor and explained the symptoms that she had seen the night before she said i think he's possessed by the devil yeah and what kills me is like she calls the next day and talks about the what had happened at the dinner table the night before and then she starts talking about like yeah actually you know this has been happening since his final year of high school and like after his best friend died it really got bad and it's like why are you just telling the dog so you have noticed yeah like it's like so you're not in this blind
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The doctor agreed that this behavior was definitely strange.
And he was like, you know what, there's definitely a diagnosis here.
But he said he couldn't be certain until Herbert was admitted to a psychiatric hospital for observation and evaluation.
Okay. OK, now to Jean, the doctor's suggestion was actually, which I was surprised by, it was a comfort to her because she was like, you know what?
A solution to the problem.
He's going to agree to the evaluation.
We'll get him diagnosed and get him medicated.
OK, which I was like, OK.
Yeah. Yeah. OK, you should have done this a little little before this.
But OK, Martin Mullin, on the other hand, was a much harder sell on the idea of having his son brought to a hospital for somebody who is mentally ill.
how he saw it yeah um in a relatively more conservative era such treatments were heavily stigmatized and those who were diagnosed with a mental illness were often treated as completely dysfunctional by society and you know we still see that yeah for that matter martin wasn't even convinced that his son was mentally ill he definitely is which is like babe if he's copying your every fucking move of your son -in -law at the dinner table something's up well and you can see it in his response later when he says that um the mirroring almost looks supernatural yeah that's a very religious way of looking
at it where it's i think he was possessed and not he wasn't he is suffering from a mental illness and needs a lot of help right um and the thing is if martin didn't believe that herbert was mentally ill they were herbert did not believe he was either right because if his father is saying he's not he's not and his mom's just hysterical exactly and and in fact as far as herbert could tell he was the one person in the the house with the greatest clarity, while everyone else seemed to be the ones with the psychiatric issues.
Oh, that's so scary.
Yeah. In the few years following his graduation from high school, his paranoia seemed to have kind of faded for a little while, especially when he was doing well and had other stuff to focus on.
He needed something to focus on.
The talk of hospitalization, which was invariably heated and intense, brought the suspicion and paranoia back with full force.
Whenever this got brought up, it just made him more and more questioning everything around him.
Yeah, that makes sense.
He quickly surmised that his parents weren't interested in his mental health and well -being, and instead they were conspiring with his doctor to have him committed and removed from their home.
That's how he viewed it.
Now, despite his suspicions, he did eventually consent to seeing a psychiatrist. Basically, he was doing it just to prove to his mother that he wasn't mentally ill, so she would leave him alone.
After all, he believed he was the more enlightened one and everyone else around him was just bonkers.
And as soon as the doctor saw that, you know, she was going to put Jean's mind at ease and we're going to put this all behind us and everybody will be fine.
But of course, things did not work out that way.
Almost immediately, the staff at Mendocino State Hospital recognized that his behavior and disordered thinking were symptoms of schizophrenia.
I was wondering. And he was committed for observation.
observation what followed was several years of very frustrating treatment uh doctors were never certain whether herb uh herbert was trustworthy like when he was reporting things or whether his paranoid personality was causing him to provide inaccurate information okay it was very difficult especially at that time it was difficult for them to like weed through what he was reporting yeah you know i mean like it they do become these kind of patients can become an unreliable um um narrator of what's going on especially back then when it was very like there's a limited understanding yeah like it was unknown
like the ins and outs and deep things about this particular yes that makes sense now the extent of herbs treatment during this period is not super clear but between 1969 and 1972 he was committed to five different hospitals each time he would be discharged once doctors determined he was no danger to himself or others.
Damn, that's a lot of hospitalizations.
Yeah, a lot of hospitals.
And while we may not know exactly what transpired during all of these periods of hospitalization, what is known is that while he was hospitalized at Mendocino State Hospital, he first reported his concerns and paranoia around earthquakes.
earthquakes. That's when it first came out.
During the first hospitalization, he casually mentioned his certainty that there would be another earthquake in California in the near future.
At the time, hospital staff were like, okay, whatever.
And like, you know, we're not going to pay attention to this.
But years later, many would wish that they had.
Now during, and we'll get back to that.
Don't worry. During his period of repeated hospitalizations, Herbert Mullen was was mostly compliant um and he was pretty honest during most of those um but he also loathed being confined and being accountable in any way shape or form to authority and the longer he was hospitalized the more defiant he became he started compliant became defiant yeah and the more experience he gained in the hospital system the more he learned about what he needed to say in order to convince the psychiatrist that he was no longer a danger to anyone yep this meant that While he continued to describe symptoms of schizophrenia,
he left out descriptions of command hallucinations, particularly any that might result in a long hospital stay.
That's really scary.
Now, after being discharged in the later spring of 1972, he went to San Francisco and tried to join an art collective there.
But his behavior made the others uncomfortable and he was asked to leave. Oh.
So he went back home to his parents' house in Felton.
And everyone, you know, behaved as though nothing had ever happened to disrupt the family.
That's such a good way of, like, coping with things.
Yeah. Just pretend they never happened.
Just sweep that under the rug.
Yeah. It always works.
We don't need to talk through it.
It's cool. Yeah. Quietly, however, Herbert once again became fixated on mysticism and the concepts of reincarnation and sacrifice.
I hate that. Yeah. Reincarnation, great.
Sacrifice, not great.
Great. So what he believed was the war in Vietnam had resulted in so much death and destruction that he believed the gods had been appeased by that sacrifice.
Oh, no. Thereby, that's how they had avoided any major natural disasters.
Oh, wow. That that kind of like violence and destruction was stopping the natural disasters from happening again.
That is some disordered thinking right there.
But by late 1972, the war was showing signs of slowing as the American public, you know, grew weary of a losing battle.
To Herbert, the end of the war meant the end of voluntary sacrifice.
And he became certain that unless more sacrifices were made, an earthquake would wipe California off the map completely.
Oh, my God. So you can see how he got there.
Oh, my God. Now, it wasn't just fears that led Herbert to believe California was in danger of mass destruction.
The voices in his head had for some time been telling him that.
From a very early age, Herbert was struck by the fact that he had been born exactly 41 years after the San Francisco earthquake of 1906, which was a natural disaster that destroyed nearly all of San Francisco and killed thousands of people.
It was a horrible, horrible disaster.
after over time that fascination of him being born at that like you know 41 years after to the day it became warped and worked into herbert's delusion so that he came to believe that it was his responsibility to prevent earthquakes like it all fell on him because of when he was born i'm also like dude what significance would 41 have that's and he and he believed in order to do this he had to make sacrifices oh i hate this yeah i never yeah i've never heard this case before like i know i've heard the name but now i know i have never heard this case now his killing spree was largely driven by you
know delusions yeah mental illness but that didn't mean he didn't want at least some recognition for the uh quote -unquote project he was planning to undertake take not a project yeah uh however herb knew if he told his parents or doctors about his thoughts and hallucinations they would send him back to the hospital and he wouldn't be able to fulfill his mission which to me like i have to wonder if that shows some sense of he knows what he's doing is wrong and that will he will be sent back to the hospital for it i feel like it's so hard i don't know enough about that because i think it's like
he knows what he's doing is wrong by society's standards but he doesn't hold himself to those standards yeah because he's here for a higher purpose there you go so that that's the thing that's why this is an interesting one yeah so he didn't want to tell anybody about it and instead he started sending rambling letters to anonymous recipients around california making vague allusions to what he planned to do and then would sign each letter quote a human sacrifice herbert mullen huh and like that that signature is definitely unsettling like a human sacrifice but apparently the contents of the letter
must not have been too alarming because no one reported them to the authorities anybody signs off a letter human sacrifice you're getting reported yeah you're getting reported buddy now on the afternoon of October 13th Herbert got in his car and went out for a drive and he wasn't headed anywhere in particular but by then he had spent months thinking about his plan to save California and it was finally time to put the plan into action i hate this so he decided to just let the road take him wherever he was meant to go oh christ and he left santa cruz in the direction of the mountains believing that his first
sacrifice would definitely be found there and as he drove casually down highway 9 the voices in his head grew stronger and by the time he entered rink rincon i believe it is um they were practically shouting at him uh because that's when he saw what he appeared to be in, you know, what he thought to be a homeless man walking down the side of the road.
To Herbert, who had let the voices and the, you know, fates guide him thus far, there was no question that this man on the side of the road was his first sacrifice.
So he drove past the man on the side of the road, then rounded a bend in the road and pulled off to the side of the highway, got out, opened the hood of his car, and gave the impression of car trouble oh man now this man who was walking down the road was lawrence white he was 55 years old and that year had not been great for him yeah uh he had struggled to get himself you know back on his feet try to find somewhere to live trying to find work and he often found himself on the wrong end of the law for one trivial reason or another just a few weeks earlier in mid -september he had been in custody
at the santa cruz county jail when a riot broke out among the inmates and you know Shit was destroyed, mattresses were burned.
It was a crazy riot.
And several of the guards and inmates were assaulted.
Later, the county jail representative, George Foster, told reporters, you get a young guy who shoots off his mouth and the other inmates nail him.
They take out their frustrations in the only way they know how, with violence.
Now, during that riot, Lawrence was struck in the head and lost consciousness.
So he had spent the last couple of weeks, once he got out of the jail, all because he was in there for like trivial reasons yeah not like a long sentence right um so he had spent the last couple weeks at a rehab center near la selva beach before being discharged just back onto the street um despite all his recent troubles though he wasn't one to turn away someone in need oh so when he saw you know herbert's old chevy station wagon pulled off to the side of the road he approached and said can i help like what's going on as it turned out he He actually knew a thing or two about cars, and especially
Chevys in particular, so it was helpful.
So he introduced himself, and he's like, let me take a look under the hood.
And so Herbert was like, you know what?
In exchange for your help, I'll drive you wherever you need to go.
Oh, no. Now, at first, Lawrence checked all the usual spots, making sure the engine had enough oil, all that stuff.
And while he was continuing to look under the hood, Herbert crept around to the back of the car and got a baseball bat he'd stashed in the trunk.
drunk. His plan was to knock Lawrence unconscious, then stab him in the heart.
And the reason he was going to do this was because that's how he saw sacrifices happen in movies or books.
Stab him in the heart.
Okay. That was always his like, I need to stab them in the heart.
Apparently he wouldn't need to go through all that trouble because when Herbert returned to the front of the vehicle, Lawrence had just about finished under the hood and was, you know, about to tell him like, I didn't find anything wrong with it.
And Herbert struck him with the bat in the back of the head as hard as he could, knocking him to the ground.
Herbert struck him in the head three more times while he was on the ground, and the blows from the bat didn't just incapacitate Lawrence White, they shattered the back of his skull.
Oh, God. And it actually pushed shards of bone into his brain, and he was killed instantly.
Oh, my God. Now, with Lawrence dead, Herbert had prevented, apparently, another catastrophic earthquake and, in his mind, saved millions of people no so he felt confident that he had done the right thing wow this is insane yeah so he threw the bat back in the trunk closed the hood and then he dragged laurence white's body into a nearby brush and got back in the car and just headed home jesus christ now a discovered in the woods along the side of highway 9 he was discovered by a passing driver who who reported it to the police.
The death was labeled a homicide, the results of several blows to the head by, quote, a narrow, blunt instrument.
But it would be several months before they learned any of the details of Lawrence's death.
With no next of kin or state to contact, Lawrence's remains were interred at Oakwood Memorial Park at the expense of the state.
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Now, after Lawrence's murder, Mullen expected to feel some sense of relief.
You know, he had lived up to what the voices in his head were telling him to do.
He had fulfilled his end of the bargain to say, you know, to stave off the impending earthquake.
But he said he still felt a sense of unease and dread that he couldn't shake and then he realized why he was like oh well the vietnam war had cost hundreds of thousands of lives so it really doesn't seem reasonable that one sacrifice is going to be enough to do this oh man and there was another new concern too because since killing lawrence white his delusional thinking had become had come to include the frightening belief that the earth was being rapidly polluted and then now he had to go after people for that okay and he was believing that like people their bodies were polluting the earth dear
god which this next one is horrific okay they all are but this one that's particularly gruesome on october 24th just 10 days yeah damn after the murder of lawrence white um herbert was out for a drive along may avenue in santa cruz and he spotted 24 year old mary gilfoyle hurrying down the sidewalk.
Apparently, Mary had an appointment at the Cabrillo, I think it's the Cabrillo College Department of Human Resources, and she was running late.
So she was so relieved when Herbert pulled up beside her in his station wagon and offered her a ride.
It was becoming risky to hitchhike at that point, like known to be risky to hitchhike, but he looked pretty ordinary.
He just looked like like a hippie like he didn't look like particularly frightening yeah um and you know she she had taken rides before from like older men who had stopped and those were much scarier yeah so she decided to take a chance the two drove apparently in silence for a short time and then she started to talk nervously and you know herbert just kind of continued to drive kind of appearing to like he said he was kind of like ignoring her and then he was fumbling with something down by his side and Mary had just opened her mouth to speak when his right hand shot up from his hip towards her
and he plunged a hunting knife into her chest and hit her heart immediately, killed her instantly Jesus he continued driving as you know, she's bleeding profusely because he hit her heart bleeding profusely in the front seat and he pulled the knife out of her chest and she slumped forward and he stabbed her twice in the back as well.
And she fell to the floor.
Now with Mary now dead, Herbert drove out to the mountains and found a turnoff where there appeared to be no cars and no evidence that cars had been there for some time.
After parking the car, he dragged Mary's body out about 125 yards into a wooded area, laid her on the ground beneath a bunch of trees, and then decided that sacrificing Sacrificing her would slow the rapid pollution of the world.
So he decided he needed to go a step further to make sure that occurred because she was going to be the sacrifice that would stop the pollution of the world.
So to make sure that this sacrifice was correct, he sliced open her body expecting to find evidence of pollution inside of her.
What the fuck? When he didn't see any immediate traces of pollution, he began digging with his hands first into her intestines then in her chest cavity oh my god and eventually he accepted that there was no pollution so he stood up wiped the blade of the knife clean and returned to the car and thought well this will keep us safe for a little little while oh my god yeah holy shit gruesome like so brutal and didn't find any quote -unquote evidence of pollution but still said still felt like it was fine yeah now for months Herbert Mullen had been certain the voices in his head were guiding him on a mission to
save mankind from disaster and no one could convince him otherwise but after the murder of Mary Guilfoyle he wasn't as certain in his divine guides as he'd once been because again he didn't find what he was thinking he would find right because if mary had been the one responsible for all the pollution in the world should he have not seen evidence of that in her body now the tension between what he believed to be true and what he saw around him was causing him to grow very anxious and frustrated and irritable he had killed two people sacrifices to prevent the end of mankind and though he was He
was now less convinced that he had done it correctly or done the right thing.
Okay. So those tensions and frustrations led to more arguments with his parents.
Because remember, he's still living at home.
Right. Which in turn led to further drug use, which in turn led to worsening mental health.
Yeah. When he asked his mother what she thought he should do to calm his unrest, she gave the same answer she always gave him.
Turn to the Lord. I don't think that will always help.
this ended up being a statement that is so chilling when you find out what happens because she said turn to the lord and in the past whenever she would you know that's she would give that answer he would dismiss the church and western religion as another tool to control the masses but this time he decided yes i will turn to the lord oh god now on the afternoon of november 2nd just one week after the murder of mary guilfoyle herbert went to St. Mary's Catholic church in Los Gatos.
He later claimed he had gone to the church simply to confess his sins.
But he also went there with a hunting knife tucked inside his jacket pocket.
So you take what you will from that.
Probably not just confessing sins.
When he walked inside, he went through the Catholic routine he'd learned as a child, you know, dipping his hand in the thing, crossing himself with the holy water and then kneeling to pay tribute to the altar.
Okay. After finishing this whole routine, he noticed that there was a little light glowing above the confessional booth.
And so he went towards it, but he was hesitant to go inside and, you know, take a seat opposite a priest. Yeah.
He was a little nervous.
Now inside the confessional, St. Mary's assistant pastor, Father Henry Tomei, could hear like a little bit of what was going on.
He's like, somebody's out there.
So he was wondering what was happening.
Father Tomei slipped the lock on his side of the confessional and swung the door open to find a very disheveled Herbert Mullen standing before him.
Now before Father Tomei could even open his mouth, Herbert pulled the hunting knife from his jacket and thrust it upward into the priest's chest. The force of it sent both of them tumbling backwards into the open confessional, where Father Tomei desperately struggled to get out from underneath Herbert Mullen.
Now, Herbert didn't understand what was happening, because he had stab this man in the chest just like he had stabbed mary guilfoyle a week before and assumed he'd stabbed him in the heart but he didn't just die like why is he struggling so he pulled the knife from the priest's chest and herbert lost his grip on the knife and it fell onto the floor and as he leaned down to pick it up he felt something in his head because father tome kicked him in the side of the head as hard as he could just above his ear but unfortunately herbert Mullin, was too quick, and as Father Tomei tried to get up and flee,
Herbert rushed at him again, bringing the knife down for a second time, and then a third, and then a fourth, and finally the priest was dead.
Oh my god. Father Tomei lay half in and half out of a confessional booth.
Oh, that's so disturbing.
So Herbert tried to push the man's leg into the booth to cover up his crime, and as he was struggling to get Father Tomei's body inside side of the confessional booth he thought he heard a person scream so he turned around and no one was there but he was like i he was certain that he heard footsteps running out of the church so he decided he shouldn't waste any more time and he wiped the blood from his knife put it back where he had gotten it and he quickly ran out of the church and got to his car and drove the 20 minutes back to santa cruz now at the time herb had wondered whether the scream
he'd heard followed followed by the footsteps, had been in his head.
Yeah. Because he knows that something is awry.
Right. But what he had heard was a real scream of terror from Margaret Reed, who'd walked into the church and caught a glimpse of Herbert trying to force the priest's dead body back into the confessional.
Oh, my. Can you imagine seeing that?
Cannot, will not. The footsteps were because Reed ran the fuck out of the church to the rectory, where she pounded on the door of the senior priest, Father Richard Hawley, and Reed explained what she'd just seen and Holly instructed his secretary to call an ambulance while that was going on Reed and Holly returned to the church and Father Holly administered extreme unction which is last rites to Father Tomei who was his friend you know like which is really sad the ambulance arrived a few minutes later but it was too late Father Tomei was pronounced dead a few minutes after 4 p .m he's just out
here doing his job well and it's even worse because what we find out is that um i don't even think he was supposed to be there that day oh my god i hate when things like when you hear something like that oh it's awful now in southern california the unsolved murder of you know this this man lawrence white who didn't have any nexican had been dealing with like kind of like a tough time it was in and out of you know incidents very trivial incidents with the law.
It didn't get a lot of attention with the press, unfortunately.
And honestly, weirdly, neither did the disappearance of a young co -ed college student.
Mary Gelfoil has not been found.
Right. Because a lot of people thought she had just run away voluntarily.
Twas the time. Yeah.
But the brutal murder of a priest in the day in a church confessional, I mean, that's got a lot of elements that's going to.
I get that. I get that.
It definitely caught everyone's attention.
I mean, that's one you're going to go, what?
Very sad that the other two things didn't, but you can very much understand why this would.
Why this would. I'm not saying the other two shouldn't, but this one definitely makes sense.
Right. The next day, the Associated Press reported on the death of the 68 -year -old French priest. According to Margaret Reid, she'd entered the church just in time to see, quote, a young assailant kicking and striking the priest. oh now as expected father tomei's death prompted a large investigation as investigators combed the city looking for anything that pointed to a suspect according to father tomei's housekeeper like i said he hadn't planned on being at the church that afternoon he had only stopped in to see if anyone was there waiting to give confession wow so this is both it's two things
It's very sad. And two, it made it clear that the killer hadn't expected him to be there.
So this wasn't planned.
Detective Sergeant Jim Shea told reporters, so far there does not appear to be any motive at all for this killing.
And they also hadn't found a murder weapon or identified even a potential suspect.
And a few days later, detectives in attendance at Tomei's funeral started scanning the faces and body language of more than 700 attendees at his funeral.
So he was obviously well -loved.
And they were hoping that the man's killer might be among them, because that does happen.
That happens a lot.
But they didn't find anyone suspicious.
Like the murders of Lawrence White and Mary Guilfoyle, the murder of Father Henry Tomei appeared completely motiveless and baffled investigators who simply couldn't fathom who would kill a priest in the daytime in a church and stuff him in a confessional.
But while they may not have understood the killer's motive, of they did understand the dangers of having a killer on the loose and a vigorous investigation was then launched at the same time mary gilfoyle's parents had hired a private detective to track their daughter down who was still missing that's so sad because the police thought she was right away now investigator bill tubbs said it appears that she probably was picked up as a hitchhiker there's just no logical place she could have gone except for her stated destination but she just never arrived there.
Now between the intensification of the investigations and Herbert Mullen's growing discomfort with what he'd done now, because he's still not feeling like he's doing what he's supposed to, he decided to slow down and develop a strategy.
He knew he still needed to offer sacrifices to hold off the impending disaster and gain the approval of the voices that guided him, which had come to include his father's voice, he said.
What? But he thought thought there had to be a more morally righteous way.
Other than murder. And we will get to that in part two.
Elena! Elena! He is a scary motherfucker.
Yeah, this is scary.
And it's also just really sad that this all could have been avoided had he been properly medicated.
He needed to be hospitalized, medicated.
He needed intensive help.
Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Because also this entire time he's sitting here saying, I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, but he's still doing it because he has this like intense belief that there's voices telling him this.
It's such a, it's a very interesting case because of how layered it is.
Right. It's so sad though.
It is really sad. I mean, these people were just, Lawrence White was just walking down the street and stopped to help someone when he was down on his luck.
That's the thing. Like Like, he was down on his luck.
Was still going to help somebody.
And he still took time out of his, while walking down the street, not even to a home, to stop and help somebody.
And it's like Mary Guilfoyle was just running late to an appointment her whole life in front of her.
It's like we were saying, it's so sad, like, when somebody's not supposed to be there.
It's like, if she was just running late, like, she shouldn't have even been there.
And then Father Tomei, not even supposed to be at the church. But he stopped in case people needed confession.
Wow. wow oh like it's really sad awful yeah it's awful well we'll hear more of the awful in part two yeah and we hope to keep listening and we hope you keep it weird you know not to keep it this weird bye Thank you.
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