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New year, new us. No, I mean for the listener.
For the listener. For the listener.
Hello out there, listener.
The weirdos. It's definitely probably like the 45th episode of 2025.
But for us, it's number two.
Yeah. So it's still new.
It's new for us. Mikey's looking to tell us.
It's only January 8th right now.
It is. It's early. It's crazy.
Early days yet. Mikey said, I don't know.
Today is the 23rd. That was Mikey letting you know today's the 23rd yes but for us it's the 8th there you go which means it's david bowie's birthday happy birthday david bowie happy birthday david bowie actually okay perfect segue i was watching real housewives of beverly hills last night thank you love it and garcelle bouvet's son is modeling and she was like oh my god like there are like so many great models um of like Like during my time it was like Naomi, it was Iman, it was, who else did she name?
Oh, is it Beverly Johnson?
Yeah. Yeah, Beverly Johnson.
And he goes, I don't know any of those people.
Which like, he wouldn't because he's super young.
But I was like, even I was like, oh my God.
It really hits you in the head sometimes.
Life comes at you so fast. Yeah, it really does.
Like, what? It hits you in the head.
Because at first I was like, are you fucking kidding me?
and then I was like oh you're like he's not even in his 20's like why would you know I mean you know why would you really know those people I guess.
It's when like you have to answer to children when they're like did you have this when you were younger and you're like not only did I not have that there wasn't even the capability to have that like we were talking about cause like roblox is a big thing among like children right now but my children are not allowed to use it helicopter mom helicopter mom I don't give a fuck but But yeah, they're not allowed to use it and they will never be allowed to use it.
Fuck Roblox. Fuck Roblox.
I think there's a bunch of predators there, but that's a story for another time.
But they had brought it up because now they feel like they're fine with it.
They understand the reasons and they're totally fine.
And they had brought it up at one point about like one of their friends got to use it and they were just telling me some story.
And then they were like, oh, did you get to use Roblox when you were younger, mom?
I said, baby, we didn't even have an iPad.
I was like, babe. You said, we didn't even know what a tablet was.
Not only that, we didn't have the internet when I was your age.
You said, the only tablets we knew of were in the fucking ancient pyramids.
I said, ow, ow. Now your ribs hurt.
Oh, I cracked myself up.
I said, not only did Roblox not exist, the internet didn't exist. They were still working.
I did not have a computer, and tablets were not a thing.
did not in the pyramid did not exist so no did that nope i did not did that below their fucking minds what wow and there's been times they've asked me if color if pictures were in color when i was little that's such an insult and i was like okay yes all right i did have color well because to them our generation was born in the 1900s oh they say that all the time like damn yeah damn they're like well you're from the night and they love to say you're from the 1970s and i'm like no No, I'm not.
I'm not even from there.
I wasn't even a cop.
Yeah, Mikey's like, fuck you guys.
Mikey's like, I'm from the 1970s and one of it.
But I'm always like, can you not like send me further back into time?
Like, I'm like, you're already like, they're already dogging me for being born in the 1900s.
And then they want to make me even.
I'm like, all right.
Yeah, that's rough.
At least give me an act.
Give my accurate date.
Okay. My favorite is that your oldest, your youngest thinks that I'm older than you.
Oh, all the time. Because I'm taller.
And they ask every time.
she asked all the time older than you like no no i am 10 years younger the kids just equate almost 11 with with older it's so weird i mean it makes perfect sense but i'm like no no no i'm so much younger than mama damn so much younger but honestly at this point i wish i was older drew is gonna turn 30 uh in the 30 club he's about to join the 30 club and i said to him last night i was like does that feel like weird like are you are you like mourning your 20s at at all and he was like fuck no he was like i am so excited to turn 30 as he should be and i felt kind of jealous yeah i feel a little bit
jealous of him that he's turning you get you get the anticipation of it i know i get it but i'm not gonna be 30 for like another year and a half yeah that's gonna fly by babe i know i mean let's hope um it will i'm determined to make it fly by yes same yeah yeah um if you heard me earlier uh crying as i was laughing that's because i sat here and i talked to elena we're just having like some banter okay it's been a minute it's just you know new year new year same us but maybe not the same because i left a lot of me on the floor in 2025 on the shower floor i got if you and it's going around so i'm
sure a lot lot of you have probably faced this in the past couple weeks the neurovirus is going around wash your mother fucking hands yeah wash your hands man i don't know if i don't know if i got the neurovirus or if it was like a food poisoning thing because i did eat like a sketchy burger you know who i am a captain crunch slurpee girl yeah afofofo the violence that was inflicted upon me and i literally just been sitting here telling elena i'm drinking colostrum so i'm like i'll I'll never get sick.
I have colostrum and it's an immunity booster.
You've all been so sick and not me.
Yep. It's true. That same day.
Literally, it was like a day later.
Like if that, the universe said, bitch, check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Actually, let me wreck you.
The universe said, oh yeah.
Oh yeah. I died for like three days and my ribs are still hurting.
This was like like Saturday night, it's Wednesday now.
My ribs are still hurting.
I know, that's crazy.
The violence with which I yacked.
Damn. Yeah. I'm still recovering.
But you know what? I woke up this morning.
I chose myself. I had a little pep talk with Lux, my cat.
Yeah. I ate my breakfast. It was great.
It was wonderful. We're trying to, you know, I like resolutions.
Some people hate resolutions.
I like them. I've never been a huge resolution girly.
I never really have been either i've i've always thought it was a nice concept but i've never really participated that much i always had concepts of a revolution i like the ideas but i'll be the first one to admit that i like i never really stick to them i don't even really set them that hard i'll be like yeah really i want to start working out this year but i never give myself like this a plan of action yeah which is most of the problem yeah and this year i went in being like not my first resolution is I'm going to be nicer to me.
Me too. And I think that is the if any of you are like I would like a resolution or you're struggling your first resolution should be be nicer to you.
Because it changes it's like when your youngest goes this changes everything.
Yes. From Bluey. But it changes everything because if you are like being a dick to yourself like for instance this morning I did not want to wake up early.
I felt like shit the past couple days.
I saw that alarm alarm I turned it off And then I said, no, girl, bet on yourself.
Yeah. Don't give up on yourself.
And you didn't say, like, get up, you lazy sack of shit.
You were like, hey.
And it made the biggest difference.
You can do this. Yeah.
Like, if you wouldn't say it to someone you love and care about, don't fucking say it to yourself, man.
Don't say it to yourself.
I tell my kids that all the time.
No, it's so true. If you wouldn't say it to someone you love, if you wouldn't say it to me, if you wouldn't say it to Dada or anybody else you love, then don't say it to you.
No. Because you need to be nice to yourself.
and it's like and being nice to yourself also makes it so that you don't take shit from anyone else and you shouldn't because you don't accept that kind of shit from outside sources hell no so be nice to yourself and you will suddenly find yourself being like oh no I'm not taking your nasty ass comments I'm better than that so and that's my words of wisdom to you one page I suggest following if you're on like a like journey to like just a morning routine or like a fitness this routine any kind of routine just like the habit stacking i love shelby saco she's um sad to savage on instagram oh okay
she has like a podcast and everything i love her she just she starts her mornings and she like has this whole morning routine but she's where i learned habit stacking which i like habit stacking is the the move there's so much actual scientific research behind it yeah like you just slowly add things to your day that you want to be part of your routine yeah and once you're comfortable with one thing yeah that's when you have the other one like she said she was like i put too much expectation on yourself yeah she was like i used to wake up at like nine o 'clock for my nine a .m job and i was like
same sister and she was like and then i slowly started waking up 20 minutes earlier did that for a couple little bit like a little out of time just don't be hard on yourself yeah and like if you want to do stuff you can but just be nice to yourself and do it slowly yeah and you'll get there and don't let people make you feel like you gotta do it all at once or see that's part of being nice to yourself is you won't let those people tell you what to do because you'll be like no i deserve more than that thank you see i trust me i'm gonna start with that i'm gonna do what i say yeah i love that it's
a nicer more peaceful existence it really is people will try to drag into bullshit don't let them we're claiming our peace that's right 2025 is the year of peace for us hell yeah and peace for morbid listeners listeners hey yo all right well since you're morbid listeners and we just bantered your ears off for like 45 minutes thank you for letting us do that yeah we just went back to our roots yeah sometimes we gotta feel with that we don't do it all the time but i can't feel in our roots i just love going back to our roots yes but let's go back to what you're here for which is a case yeah and this case
is really important because it's an unsolved case so it's a little bit shorter obviously because when it's unsolved there's not like the whole trial part of everything yeah um But this was a Hulu documentary that came out a few months ago, probably.
And I said to Dave, I was like, we got to cover this because it's really interesting and I want to get more ears on this.
Yeah. So let's go. We're going to talk about The Unsolved Murder of Melissa Witt.
And it's so sad because she was 19 when she went missing.
And that's when you look back at 19, that's a baby.
Oh, my God. For me, that was like 10 years ago.
And the difference between who I was then and who I am now, I know for you, it was like way longer ago.
It was 20 years ago.
That's okay. Okay. I'm older than the amount of years that is.
But you look great.
Yeah. And you're beautiful.
So going back to the story, let's talk about Melissa Ann Witt before she disappeared, obviously.
Melissa Ann Witt was born April 20th, 1975.
She too was from the 70s.
There you go. In Arkansas to John and Mary Ann Witt.
She was raised in Fort Smith.
I always want to say Arizona, but it's Arkansas.
I look at AR. Oh, yeah.
And my brain says Arizona.
I feel that. It's Arkansas.
Arkansas. Arkansas.
ramses don't yell at us i know i'm kidding i promise but she was raised alongside her brother ronnie and her sisters caroline and barbara she was a good student she was very active in her church community at the grand avenue baptist church and she always had really good relationships with her family particular particularly her mother they were super close after melissa's death her mother would say how she never really had any trouble with melissa at all they were just best friends they were always there for each other and while a lot of teenagers Teenagers usually, you know, obviously try to distance
themselves from their parents.
Melissa's relationship with her mom was always a source of pride for the two of them.
All her friends and family knew just how close they were.
And specifically, they knew how protective Mary Ann was over Melissa.
Oh, that's so beautiful.
I know. And especially, like, at 19.
That's the thing. To have that relationship with your mom.
Wow. Because obviously that's...
That's the dream. Yeah.
I mean, teenagers usually try to distance themselves from their parents around those years.
Oh. This is already breaking my heart.
I know. So after graduating from Northside High School in 1993, Melissa enrolled at Westark Community College with plans of becoming a dental hygienist. Oh, damn.
Yeah. Not long after starting her first semester, she actually became an ambassador for the school.
Holy shit. Which meant that she would go out and recruit students to go there, promoting the school and its programs to any prospective students in the area.
Yeah. And like the school has to trust you to send you out there and rep them like that.
also dreams of becoming a dental hygienist dental like school it's in any capacity hygienist or dentist like full -blown dentist so hard like so much involved in that and you see some of the gnarliest shit yeah i was friends with a girl who went to dental hygienist school and she saw like spiders in somebody's mouth before that was something i feel like i was is better for not knowing well now you're worse but i was better before that i feel you know how many times holy shit you've you've done so many info drops on me like that you've been better before oh but can oh no i can't and also how do
you just like sit there and calmly i guess remove the spiders from said mouth and then you gotta be hey like we gotta be like good about brushing around the molars because like spiders there was there was some arachnids taken out not a rat taken up a space in there that's horrific arachnids were holding space in your mouth no i can't that's awful i cannot that's awful i gotta go woof well kfsm reporter charlene shirk told abc news in 2024 the college had her go and recruit students because they wanted students like her she was already a hard worker she had big dreams for her life and it just goes
to show that she was willing to put in the work to make her dreams reality because in her spare time Melissa actually worked as an assistant for a local dental practice in town.
Oh, damn. So she was like, I want to do this.
I'm going to start now.
Yeah, she's already like in the, you know, I'm going to get the on -site experience.
Yes. The office manager, Anita Dodson, said, Missy was a very good kid.
She was friendly. She didn't have any enemies.
Everyone loved her and she was a good student, although she would still joke around with us.
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And according to Dodson, Melissa brought an invaluable warmth and brightness to the office whenever she was in the building and after her disappearance she said the absence of that brightness could be felt by everyone oh she said the staff here are close like family and we and we did all we could to support each other when missy went missing everyone was upset for such a long time she was so sweet and so nice oh it sounds like she just left a gaping void yeah and left like a mark on everybody that she met in such a good way yeah so on the morning of december 1st 1994 melissa had breakfast with her
mother and unfortunately which doesn't sound like it was very like them at all they got into an argument with each other that morning and it was over money according to marianne melissa wanted to borrow some money and hoping to teach her daughter a valuable lesson about the value of money she said no and that of course left melissa frustrated and she left the house frustrated oh no so not wanting to end the discussion and anger Before she left for work, Marianne wrote her daughter a short note reminding her that she herself, Marianne, had bowling league that evening.
And she said in the note, Melissa, why don't you come to Bowling World after school and after work and I'll buy you dinner.
Like, I just want to end the day on a good note.
Yeah, like, let's kind of put this behind us.
Yeah. So Melissa went to school that day, left work at 5 p .m. But when she tried to start her car that night, the engine wouldn't turn over.
Later during their investigation, detectives were able to determine that the dome light in her car had been accidentally left on while she was at work.
Maybe like the door didn't close all the way or something.
So the car's battery was drained.
But fortunately, she and a co -worker were able to flag down a local business owner who gave her car a jump start and she was able to get the engine started.
Okay. Once the car was started, she headed home to change out of her work clothes, which investigators later found on her bedroom floor.
They also assume that she must have seen the note that Marianne left for her because after she changed her clothes, she headed to the bowling world, arriving sometime between 6 and 6 .30 and parking her car in the northwest corner of the lot, where her mom was inside with her bowling league.
The bowling alley unfortunately had no security cameras in the parking lot.
You have to remember this is early 90s.
It wasn't super common for everywhere to have CCTV.
true like now we'd be like what but back then it would be like wait they had security cameras like it would be more shocking the other way and it's also like back then i'm sure like banks and that kind of place had security cameras but it's like a bowling alley yeah it's a local bowling alley for sure so because they didn't have security cameras whatever happened after melissa parked her car is almost entirely unknown according to statements from witnesses she was last seen quote arguing with a black male at bowling world around 6 p .m. and that was the last time anybody saw her a little before
8 p .m. somebody found her keys in the parking lot of the bowling alley and turned them into the cashier at the front desk but at that time nobody noticed that there was actually small splatters of blood dried onto the keys and nobody at the alley would later remember who had turned those keys in oh no yeah so later that night when Marianne returned home she was surprised to find that melissa hadn't returned home yet however she figured that maybe she'd gone out with some friends and would come back later that night it wasn't something she was super worried about right away but the next morning
when melissa still hadn't returned that's when marianne became really worried she wouldn't have spent the night out without calling her yeah and contacting her somehow so she contacted the police a little after 9 a .m to report her daughter missing over the course of the next two days melissa's friends and family and the local police spread out across Fort Smith looking for her.
They handed out over 6 ,000 flyers with her photograph, but nobody had seen or heard anything.
That's, and just having to make that phone call as a mother to report your child missing, I can't, that, I feel like every time I hear that, I'm always like, I can't even bring myself to be in that position.
I can't, that alone.
No. you know and then to hear that no one's seen her there's just no one being able to be like oh no no she's here like i saw her here and knowing that you just had like a run of the mill argument before and just knowing that that's like the last contact you had with her before she just disappeared which is so normal and so like every day of course like like i said run of the mill like everybody has argued with their mom in the morning before heading out to go somewhere yeah and and her mom did the right thing by being like you know what like i don't want to end on this note like meet up later
like let's not end the day on a bad note exactly but oh oh it's so sad at least at least she knew that her daughter saw the note yeah you know i know that is a good thing but then of course she lived with guilt because she was the one who said of course come to the bowling alley oh god i hate that i know so it wasn't until monday december 4th that melissa's car was discovered in the parking lot of the bowling world after an employee realized that the keys had blood smeared on them finally and bore the name missy on the key chain more More importantly, there was also a pool of blood found near
the car and one gold earring and a hair clip believed to have belonged to Melissa, which I'm like, why did it take people that long to realize that that was there?
She was parked in like the corner, the far corner.
So I think that had a lot to do with it.
But I was like, damn investigators.
But when they did discover all that, they cordoned off the area and they started taking samples and processing the vehicle for evidence.
until that moment melissa's case had actually been labeled a runaway shocked crazy but the discovery of the blood and the personal item shifted the focus to a potential kidnapping at that moment they still didn't think that she was murdered or yeah anything several police officers contacted the employees of the bowling alley and the customers who were known to have been there that night but this is interesting one person recalled hearing what sounded like a young young woman's voice shouting for help at one point that evening but they said they couldn't be sure what they heard and nobody else
remembered anything i never get these like i don't i'm like you heard someone yelling for help i you know what say anything in the moment to anyone else i think it's so easy to talk yourself out of what oh for sure in the moment like i think i've probably even done it and hopefully like actually like it's been something where yeah i talked into what it actually was kind of thing you know and it's easy to do it from a you know from hindsight of kind of thing and from like looking at it from an outside point of view but i always just think and i i'm like uber and maybe it's because we do this i
thought well i now i think my focus has shifted so much or my perspective has shifted so much because i'm like wicked on on like high alert so if i hear something that i think is somebody yelling i will i always say say something to somebody just to be like, did you hear that?
Like, am I going crazy?
Like, I always like to know that I'm not the only one hearing it.
No, I think doing this has made us hyper aware.
It has. Almost like to a bad point sometimes.
Yeah, honestly. Yeah.
There's been points when I'm like, we like kind of spiral sometimes.
Yeah. I heard a coyote in the woods the other night and I was convinced that a woman was in the woods, like being abducted.
And Drew was like, that's absolutely coyotes.
And I was like, should we like call someone though?
He was He was like, Ash, that is 100 % coyotes.
Yeah, he's like, we are not calling someone for coyotes.
I was like, okay. Okay.
Back to the story, though.
Two weeks later, Fort Smith police arrested a local man, Larry Landrum, on suspicion of sexual assault and a string of other crimes unrelated to Melissa's disappearance.
Landrum would later be convicted for the murder of another young woman in Arkansas, Lucille Hassler.
Whoa. So they probably thought they had their guy.
Yeah. At a loss for productive leads, investigators hoped that his arrest would be the break that they needed to find Melissa or at least get some kind of answers because, you know, usually people like that are not associated with other great people.
Yeah, criminals, no criminals.
His body language and evasiveness during the interview also raised a lot of red flags and the results of his polygraph examination showed deception, but they were never able to collect any evidence linking him to the crime.
Oh, that's frustrating.
yeah every lead that they get in this case is so frustrating because it falls apart so quickly or it's like the lead up and then it just like completely fizzles out yeah rough so a week later on december 21st fort smith police held a press conference to provide an update on the case and at that time they disclosed that melissa had last been seen arguing with a man in the parking lot of the bowling world on the night that she went missing the individual was described as a quote, black male, probably in his early 20s with short hair, a medium build and approximately six feet tall.
After three weeks of dead end leads and very little evidence, the local authorities were starting to express their concern that something pretty terrible could have happened to Melissa.
Yeah, the kidnapping angle is seeming less likely at this point.
Yeah, definitely as time is going.
But they assured reporters that they did remain committed to the case.
Sergeant David Overton said it's becoming frustrating, but we continue to look for quality leads and we hope to still find her alive but again when that much time goes by it's it becomes less likely and one thing about this case is like i was saying like they dropped everything there were other cases being worked on at this point in time and multiple police officers dropped those cases that were like obviously important but of lesser importance yeah and everybody committed their time to finding melissa oh wow so by that time two large full -color billboards had been donated in town showing a picture
of Melissa alongside the number for Crimestoppers and the Fort Smith Bank was offering a $30 ,000 reward for any information that would have led to her safe return but neither yielded productive results that's so good which is crazy yeah that's a big reward so $30 ,000 in 1994 or 1995 would be about $64 ,000 damn so almost more than double damn that's crazy that's crazy a few few weeks later on january 13th 1995 investigators got the break that they'd been waiting for but it definitely was not the outcome that anybody was hoping for no at about 9 30 a .m two hunters in ozark arkansas about 40 miles
from fort smith reported to the franklin county sheriff's officer that they had been walking through the woods and they came upon what they thought was a mannequin lying face down in the woods about 30 feet from the main road according to the hunters they had had actually been out in those same woods and walked the same exact road the day before, but they didn't recall seeing anything at the time.
That's interesting.
She's been missing for weeks at this point.
Like over three weeks.
Close to a month. That's interesting.
Yeah. Detective Ryder and his team, along with several crime scene technicians, went out to the spot in the Ozark National Forest where Melissa's body had been discovered.
And while they couldn't be positive it was Melissa at the time, they were reasonably confident that they had found their missing person.
and she would ultimately be conclusively identified through dental records oh that's awful yeah melissa's body this is so sad was lying nude in a muddy area she had a non -fatal wound wound on the side of her head from what appeared to be a blow from a heavy object and based on the location rider and the other investigators theorized that the killer was probably local yeah or at least somebody who had frequented the area often enough to be familiar with this particular particular particular section of the forest so possibly a hiker or a camper yeah like that as they surveyed the crime scene investigators
also noticed something strange there was a human -sized indentation in the earth behind two large rocks just several feet away from where her body had been discovered so they theorized that the killer had actually initially placed the body behind the rock after the murder occurred like probably closer to when it occurred which would explain why hunters hadn't seen her the previous day so he moved her they think that he did what the fuck it's there's there's two sides there's okay some people who think he moved her and then we'll talk about what the other people think because why the killer would have returned
and moved the body about 20 feet was a total mystery my only theory is that they were feeling some kind of something about the fact that she hadn't been found yet like stranger things have happened Yeah.
But I don't know. There were also visible finger marks on her wrists where the killer grabbed her body and dragged it from one location to the other.
If the killer moved the body, then I think they did so because they were frustrated that she hadn't been found yet.
I was actually just thinking about what I had just said.
I don't think they felt bad.
Yeah, I don't think there was – I want her to be found because you don't leave your murder victim nude, you know, in the middle of the forest just to be like, oh, I feel bad.
I want them to – no i think they want they want her to be found they just didn't want to be found themselves i agree with you yeah on the other side of things some investigators believed that it was equally possible that the an that animals in the forest had moved the body but there was visible finger marks on her wrists from dragging right and that would be that'd be tough i think for animals to move a full body yeah i mean it's happened i suppose but usually it's pieces that's the thing thing.
I hate to be that crass.
I know it's gruesome, but it's just reality.
Yeah. And I don't know.
I feel like you would be able to tell.
Well, and you would be able, obviously, like you've done autopsy, so you know.
Yeah. They can tell the difference between fresh finger marks and finger mark indentations that actually happened.
Yeah, which it sounds like they were saying this looks like it was more fresh.
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.
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State Police Lieutenant Dale Best said, we believe the body had been moved.
It looked like by animals.
We did find the location where she had been in the wooded area, and it It looks like she'd been there for quite some time.
Now, this is also just coming to me in the moment.
On the other side of things, I wonder if they said that it was animals who moved the body because they're not going to want to sit there and say that the killer was in those woods like right under their noses a few days ago when they can't find him.
Like he went there twice.
So it's easier to say that animals.
It is easier to say than like you just said, admit that he came back and had free reign to move the whole thing.
Right. You know. Who knows?
Who knows? but just a day or two earlier and this is this will give you chills this freaked me out and it's just awful two days earlier or sorry just a day or two earlier an anonymous caller had left a message at the fort smith major crimes unit and an older woman with a thick southern accent can be heard saying go ahead and tell them what you found and then a younger voice which was probably male they said can be heard saying no i can't and then the call just disconnected disconnected what just a day or two before melissa was found melissa's body was found what yeah in the woods that day when they
did finally discover her detective rider couldn't help but wonder if somebody had found melissa's body before those hunters did but didn't want to get involved i think that is absolutely a possibility and they never were able to figure out where that call came from or who it was oh my god this makes me so mad yeah or i should say no No other information came out about it.
But other than the body in the mud and the human -sized impression in the dirt behind the rocks, the scene was devoid of evidence or anything unusual that might have helped point them in the right direction.
And her killer took her clothing and her jewelry.
What the fuck? She was found with nothing.
Wow. Yeah. There was no sign of her clothes or personal items anywhere.
Technicians did take samples of the soil and the natural debris from the location, and melissa's body was then moved to little rock to be autopsied by the state medical examiner in his autopsy report they he listed the cause of death as asphyxiation by strangulation and noted that leaves and soil from the area were found in her airway oh my god indicating that she had quote been strangled face down and she inhaled debris from the forest floor so she holy shit and she was killed out there out there yeah she was brought from because i figured she She was killed somewhere else and brought there.
No, it sounds like she was killed in the forest. Holy shit.
Which is horrifying.
Based on the evidence collected during the autopsy, investigators concluded that Melissa's killer had, like we were just saying, abducted her from the Bowling World parking lot and then taken her to that area off the logging road.
She was also sexually assaulted and then strangled.
So the news of the discovery of Melissa's body in the Ozark Woods came as a shock to everybody who obviously were out there doing the work passing out flyers all the while hoping that she would be found alive but for some it was a disappointing end to a frustrating mystery fort smith detective clay thomas said i hate to say it but finding her body was the first break we've had in this case at least it gives us a direction before this we didn't have that so I guess you can I guess I mean at least there was that it's like it's such a double -edged sword because obviously the aim was to find Melissa alive
and bring her home this is the last thing you want to find but at least finding someone's body can give you anything you know like it gives you any because before that you're just kind of blind especially Especially with no security cameras, no, you know, this isn't the time of, like, digital footprints and shit.
Right. And for her family to actually have a place to go visit her where they know she's laid to rest. Like, that… Which, again… …means a lot to me.
The last thing you want to happen… Of course.
…in these scenarios.
But I'm glad they were at least able to have something to go on at this point.
Oh, it's just awful.
It is. Reverend Ed Sauss… I think it's Saussier… …from the family's church conveyed similar sentiments, telling a reporter, This is a difficult time, but the family feels a little relief in finally knowing something.
Yeah, because I imagine that the unknown must be just completely unbearable.
Well, because we've said it before, your mind fills in the blanks.
And a lot of times that's you're coming up with somehow even darker things sometimes, you know.
But unfortunately, both John and Marianne Witt passed away in 2004 and then 2011, respectively.
So they never got the answers that they just waited the rest of their lives to hear.
Oh, that makes me so sad.
ever got it. Now, in a city of nearly 300 ,000 residents, Fort Smith obviously had its fair share of violent crime.
In fact, around the time that Melissa Witt disappeared, there were a number of other young women who either disappeared or were also murdered.
In 1995, just nine months after Melissa was killed, another Fort Smith woman named Lori Murchison went missing after she was released from jail on a public intoxication charge.
She was on her way to pick up her paycheck check with a plan to return back to the jail and bail out her boyfriend but she never returned and has never been seen since damn just vanished into thin air those are always the scariest man yeah a year later in 1996 fort smith resident summer wilkinson disappeared and her remains were later discovered near a racetrack in oklahoma oh in 2000 a man named jonathan cole was convicted of her death and at the time he was already serving a life sentence for the 1997 murder of a 13 year old fort smith girl whose remains were also found in oklahoma holy shit
the most alarming of these incidents occurred on june 9th 1995 when six -year -old morgan nick disappeared from morgan nick morgan nick yeah disappeared from a little league game in alma arkansas just 20 miles from from fort smith so not far at all no morgan had gone off with some friends to catch fireflies which just no that absolutely ruins you she was last seen standing by her own parents car talking to an unknown man before she disappeared a few weeks before her disappearance there were actually two separate incidents of attempted kidnappings in the area including one where a man tried to pull
a four -year -old girl into his own pickup truck in alma and another in which a a man tried to abduct a nine -year -old girl from a convenience store in Fort Smith holy shit yeah it was a dangerous area my god now despite the obvious difference in their ages investigators at the time did consider that Melissa's killer might also be responsible for the attempted kidnapping of the girls in Alma and Fort Smith and the disappearance of Morgan Nick my god scary that's horrifying scary despite the surprising number of assaults attempted abductions and and murders of young women in this area, investigators
on Melissa's case had pretty much nothing to work with, very little to work with, and even less luck when it came to finding leads.
In June of 1995, they set up roadblocks in the area, the Arkansas State Police did, in the hopes that a passing motorist might have seen or heard anything that could lead them to help find Melissa's killer or help them find Morgan Nick.
Lieutenant Dale Best told a reporter, we will follow leads until we've exhausted them somewhere somewhere out there there is that one lead somewhere a person knows this suspect the information is out there if we can just reach out to the right person and get them to call but despite their best efforts the roadblocks turned up zero useful leads which is nuts that's crazy that many girls going missing ending up dead dead like attempted kidnappings and nobody knows anything that's the thing they're not like these people who are doing this are not that smart no no like they know people they've said
things they've done things like come on and people just don't want to get people don't get involved people don't want to get involved especially in like smaller towns oh yeah there's a whole much more often yeah it's a very different mindset there's a whole like you know set of small town politics ticks that comes into play yes big time that's a perfect way to say it it wasn't until nearly a year later in april 1996 that investigators finally got their best lead and melissa's melissa witt's murder case among the stronger suspects in her murder was a local man named william taylor who detective
ryder described as somebody with a quote history of sexual abuse and violence toward women and young girls but the problem was after warrants were issued for For his arrest in September of 1995, he went on the run, and law enforcement officials hadn't been able to find him.
But finally, in April of 1996, they used phone records to track him to Mulberry, Arkansas, and he was finally arrested on those 95 warrants.
Good. According to Ryder, quote, Taylor was wanted for questioning in the Witt case because several coincidences make him a possible suspect.
Taylor is known to have frequented bowling alleys in the region and was living in the area at the time Witt disappeared.
about 10 miles from where her body was discovered oh shit yeah unfortunately investigators were never able to connect taylor to melissa witt's case or the morgan nick case uh he was only one of a handful of suspects who investigators focused on very intensely after the discovery of melissa's body in the woods the earliest suspect was actually the good samaritan who helped melissa after her car wouldn't start on the night of her disappearance oh under the circumstances the the timing of his appearance was pretty suspicious to investigators.
But that man was interviewed several times by investigators and ultimately cleared.
Oh, man. At the time Melissa's body was discovered, anyone with a criminal past and connection to Melissa, no matter how trivial, seemed like a promising suspect.
Yeah, of course. But as the years passed and the case evolved, those early suspects were pretty much more than likely just pretty desperate grasps at finding any leads.
Yeah, I mean, they had to.
They had to. They had to go for anything.
When you don't have anything, you have to chase down what you can.
You do. Since then, several other suspects have emerged who quickly became a focus of the investigation and are actually far more serious than the Good Samaritan and Roger Wood.
Like, you understand why they chase them down.
Of course. But these next people we're going to talk about are actually, like, make you scratch your head a little.
In 1999, Marcus Blair, a Fort Smith reporter, was covering the crime beat for the Times record when he came across an interesting story from a Texas paper about a man named larry swearingen at the time swearingen had been arrested for the murder of 19 year old melissa trotter who he was accused of sexually assaulting strangling and dumping in the sam houston national forest in texas so literally the same exact thing same exact thing even dumping the body in a national same victim profile same victim profile and actually it's the same name if you look at a picture of melissa if both melissa's they
bear striking resemblance when blair brought the story to detective rider's attention which like again see something say something you have to see it the detective felt like he had finally gotten a break in the case that he'd been desperately seeking yeah things and they do look a lot alike they look when you put them next to each other see and around the same age yep unfortunately murdered in the same manner assaulted and placed in the same dumping locations similar yeah like forest things looked even more promising when rider discovered that larry had been in arkansas visiting his grandparents
just days before melissa went missing oh come on add that to the fact that he had a history of kidnapping and sexual assault of women and he was starting to look like a pretty strong suspect in melissa's case now despite these coincidences very strong coincidences between the cases cases swearingen maintained his innocence in the wick case until the day of his execution in fall of 2019 for years investigators tried to get him to cooperate with an interview and sought any evidence that could tie him to melissa's death but he refused to speak to them and they were never able to produce anything
of substance he feels like a really good suspect he does and the fact that he refused to speak about it just wouldn't talk about it was like i'm being executed in any way yeah so like what the fuck yeah another prominent suspect in melissa's abduction and murder was convicted rapist travis dale crouch at the time of melissa's disappearance he was working as a handyman at a church camp not far from where melissa's body was discovered okay a fucking rapist yeah really okay working at a church awesome and it was not far from where her body was a convicted rapist working at a church camp yeah fantastic
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uh he had grown up in ozark and spent the late 1980s riding around the country with several motorcycle gangs before being sent to prison in the early 90s for stabbing a man in minneapolis in october 1994 he was released from prison and returned to ozark to live with his parents having grown up in the area he was very intimately familiar with the region and he had actually been seen driving in the area of the bowling world at the time of melissa's disappearance in interviews with law enforcement he has no alibi he had no alibi for the night that melissa went missing and couldn't account for his whereabouts
during the weeks that followed oh shit yeah in 1998 investigators took hair fiber and stain samples from the car that he was driving at the time but the test results were inconclusive oh i fucking hate that otherwise he has denied playing any role in melissa's death but again he also looks like a good one another strong suspect in 1997 he was convicted of sexually assaulting a 20 year old woman in broomfield colorado and in this case he kidnapped the woman in her own car and drove her to a remote location in the mountains where he violently sexually assaulted her this victim was able to escape
after he passed out in the front seat oh my god and at that time she obviously reported the assault to police as of now he still maintains his innocence and is serving a 64 -year sentence in colorado holy shit but maintains his innocence as far as the melissa witt case with each new suspect that emerged in this case it seemed like investigators were getting closer to finding the identity of melissa's killer finally but they were never able to make any actual case against any individual but there was always one man that many investigators strongly strongly suspected of involvement in Melissa's murder.
And more than any other suspect, he had the criminal history to justify their opinions.
Really? Yes. In 2000, detectives in Arkansas arrested Charles Ray Vines.
That name might sound familiar.
He was arrested after he violently attacked a 16 -year -old girl, breaking into her home, raping her, and almost killing her.
Holy shit. Not long after that arrest, the investigation uncovered additional evidence that proved he was the notorious serial killer that the press had dubbed the river valley killer oh okay he was responsible for the brutal killings of 89 year old lily jones in 1993 why did i know that name and the murder of 58 year old juanita wofford two months later a little over a year later a local fort smith resident danny bennett confessed to those murders and was actually sent to prison for them but whatever relief that brought was short -lived because in August of that year while Danny Bennett was sitting
in jail or prison rather 74 year old Ruth Henderson was murdered and the killing and crime scene were remarkably similar to the murders of Jones and Wofford. So the murder of Ruth Henderson was determined to have been committed by the same killer and authorities were then forced to let Danny Bennett go.
It wasn't until five years later when vines was arrested for this assault on the teenage girl that investigators finally started connecting those previous cases to him and he was arrested after his arrest he made a deal with the prosecutor's office in which he agreed to provide details of his previous murders in exchange for their agreeing not to pursue the death penalty at which point he confessed to the other murders holy shit yeah he had lived in fort smith for many years including the period that melissa witt disappeared and was killed in an investigator strongly suspected him of being melissa's
killer but when he was directly confronted about the murder after his arrest he denied abducting or killing melissa given that he had confessed to killing the other women it really wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to deny melissa's murder if he was responsible but law enforcement still remains suspicious according to rob allen who was one of the fbi agents who pursued the case in 2019 he said there was a lady who had emailed a detective she worked with charlie vines's mother and charlie vines sometimes would show up to his mother's work and that witness reported she saw him wearing a bowling
league shirt of some sort oh so that's interesting that is very interesting the report about the bowling league shirt is obviously circumstantial at best but it was just one of several things about charlie vines charles vines that made him a strong suspect.
He worked about eight minutes from where Melissa's body was discovered, was known to be very familiar with the area.
Like I said, he lived there most of his life and was very familiar with the logging trails in Ozark, which not a lot of people are.
In 2021, 27 years after Melissa's murder, an investigatory team of FBI agents and local law enforcement officers were sent out to the area where Melissa's body was discovered in the ozark forest and they brought several several tracking dogs with them and despite having nearly three decades having passed those dogs located an old mattress in the woods with charles ray vine's dna on it shut the fuck up as well as several old cambridge cigarette butts containing dna what and this is crazy when the original investigators processed the scene in 1994 when melissa's body was found they located several
cambridge cigarette butts right near where her body was discovered this again this feels like it's it feels so strong yeah he was ultimately convicted and sentenced to three life terms for the murders of lily jones juanita wofford and ruth henderson but despite the best efforts of fbi and local law enforcement he refused to talk on the record about melissa whit and he died in prison in september 2019 and he is a disgusting looking man just so everybody knows gross heinous so as of 2024 melissa whit's murder still remains unsolved if you have any information regarding the murder of melissa whit
you're asked to please please call the Fort Smith Police Department at 479 -709 -5116 or you can email them at info at fortsmithpd .org.
This is just such a frustrating case.
Such a frustrating case because every time they felt like they got close and that they had their guy, it was just that the person wouldn't cooperate and they didn't have anything else to hold them there on that or to completely seal the deal.
it's like there's a couple of really good yeah like i feel like he's in there for me charles ray vines and i would say larry larry yeah larry swearingen are probably those are my two and i was really stuck on larry until i found that yeah the cigarette butts charles yeah the kind that charles ray vine smoked were right near the body that's very very interesting and an old mattress with his dna on it it's like why was there an old mattress out there yeah and that's the thing it's like what the fuck yeah bizarre yeah and just such a tragic tragic it's an awful awful case the fact that her parents
died not knowing yeah not having any answers of what happened to their 19 year old daughter oh that makes me sick who had everything going for her yeah everything going for her she came from a good family she was beautiful she was well -liked she was going to be a dental hygienist involved in her community doing the damn thing yeah yeah and just went to the bowling alley to hang out with her mom one night after work.
That makes me sick.
So sad. So guys, if anybody listening knows anybody with any information or if you have any information, again, that, the number that I provided and the email, you can submit an email confidentially and, again, submit a tip to that number confidential.
It's completely confidential.
If you know anyone, if you saw anything, if your family member remembers something, thing if you're from the area do you ever heard anything at all heard a damn thing it's like these kind of things I'm like this can be solved absolutely this can be solved 100 % oh but I want it to happen I know I'm glad that we did an unsolved case at the top of the year yes I like let's start the year yes with some fresh years on it yes let's get it solved but you know what if If the Lady of the Dunes, the boy in the box, the Somerton man, if all those things can be solved, I mean, decades and decades and decades
later, this can be solved.
But yeah, no, I completely agree with you.
And so guys, remember, see something, say something.
Yeah. We love you. Be nice to yourselves.
Be nice to yourselves and keep it weird. But not so weird that if you see something, you don't say something.
And not so weird that if you have a tip, you don't submit it because you could help a whole entire family and to get justice for a wonderful woman who was killed by a terrible monster.
See you next time. Thank you.
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