Episode 609: The DeFeo Family Murder | Morbid

Hey, weirdos. Before we dive into today's Twisted Tale, let me tell you about a place where the darkness never ends.

Wondery Plus. It's like stepping into a haunted mansion where the floorboards creak with ad -free episodes and early access to new episodes lurks around every corner.

So come join us if you dare.

Morbid is available one week early and ad -free only on Wondery Plus.

You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. originals all in one easy app.

Find the genres you love and discover new ones.

Explore bestsellers, new releases, plus thousands of included audiobooks, podcasts, and originals that members can listen to all they want with more added all the time.

Right now, I am listening to The Southern Book Club's Guide to Slaying Vampires by Grady Hendrix, and I just cannot get enough of it.

I never want to pause it.

I'm literally like loading the dishwasher listening to it, on the treadmill listening to it, constantly.

It's so awesome. I love being being able to listen anytime, anywhere I want to.

And there's more to imagine when you listen.

Sign up for a free 30 -day Audible trial, and your first audiobook is free.

Visit audible .com slash morbid.

You guys, I tried my mochi ice cream the other day, and I was lifted off of this planet into just another galaxy entirely.

It is a cool, creamy scoop of ice cream wrapped in in a soft, chewy dough.

It's literally like a little sweet ice cream dumpling.

It's pillowy soft. D to the E to the L -I -C -I -O -U -S and it just feels very indulgent.

I loved it. I tried the cookies and cream flavor and I still have the mango flavor to try.

I'm so excited to try the mango because if it's half as good as the cookies and cream, I'll probably just like fall on the floor and start crying.

Tears of joy. My Mochi is only around 70 calories per piece.

My Mochi is is gluten -free, and each box has six perfectly portioned Mochi snacks.

And guess what? MyMochi is the original Mochi ice cream, the founder of MyMochi invented Mochi ice cream.

That makes MyMochi the Mochi OG.

Feel joyfully chill this summer with every bite of MyMochi ice cream.

Look for the purple box of MyMochi ice cream at Walmart or visit MyMochi .com to find a store near near you.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena.

And I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.

Hello. Hello. How are you?

I'm great. I'm tired, but I'm great.

How are you? I'm also tired and great.

I love that. Great and tired.

Yeah. We did all of the tour, the book tour.

We just finished last night.

And it was so much fun, so cool.

It was one of the coolest things I feel like we've gotten to do.

Yeah, you guys were rad as hell.

Thanks for inviting me, bitch. Thanks for coming.

No problem. It was so much fun.

I love. And it was awesome, but I think my body just like crashed at the end of it it's just like okay go to sleep well the thing is that the thing you have to know about me and Elena which most of you probably already know we don't fucking go anywhere ever and we don't socialize with really anyone other than each other and like some family and yeah a couple of friends we're very I'm yawning right now sorry uh I literally was yawning uh yeah my social battery my social battery has always been pretty uh no pretty little doesn't hold a lot and it gets empty real quick mine used to be so much larger

and in charger never was it never was and it's only gotten smaller as i've gotten older same i have to pick very carefully what i how i socialize you have to triage this was a great a great way to do it it was a great choice and now i'm exhausted as of this recording this motherfucker sitting across from me is a number one new york times best -selling author i can't believe that i am so happy for you i was i'm shook literally pooping my pants when you got the news it's i still it's i'm like honestly speechless about it still it's incredible thanks so much for supporting me everybody you're the you're

amazing yay and just know that i accidentally tackled her when she got the news she did she side tackled me which was i meant to hug but it was way more forceful full side tackle you know uh it's amazing though it's amazing and i can't believe it and i can't wait to make more books um and yeah it's crazy hopefully the next one is also on the list i see it i see it manifest we all manifested on tour we hell yeah we did and And you guys manifested, I'm sure of it.

You did it. And you're just talented.

This is because you guys did it, though.

And, yeah. You supported me.

You bought the book.

You pre -ordered the book.

You seem to be enjoying the book, which makes me pretty happy.

And I just needed to tell you, you are appreciated.

Your kind words have been unbelievably appreciated.

I can't tell you how much it has meant this whole time.

Seeing you in person has been amazing and appreciated.

That's been really cool.

And you are the real ones.

So I just wanted to tell you that.

And she's on the New York Times.

So I just wanted to thank you because you guys made it awesome.

Yay! And you're the reason for the season, you know?

You are. I think that's all the happy stuff we have. Yeah, that's all the happy stuff.

And you know. I like it.

And what we're going to do is we're going to, this is like, this is a two -parter, but it's like a different kind of two -parter.

Whereas, you know, it's still sort of, well, not sort of.

It is still very much spooky season.

But this is straight up true crime.

Yeah. This is straight up true crime, but it's connected to a spooky thing.

Because we wanted to give you like a little bit of both this season.

Yeah, you got to get both because that's what you're here for.

Makes everybody happy.

It does. And I get it.

So this is one of the bigger ones that we've never covered before.

I know. It's actually kind of crazy that we haven't.

Which is shocking. So what we're going to do here is we're going to talk about the DeFeo family murders.

Those are largely connected to what came after, which is the Amityville Horror hoax.

That is a big old hoax.

But it's such a big, that's almost a true crime in and of itself because it's such a massively orchestrated hoax.

It kind of was, right?

Yeah. Like a true crime because didn't, isn't there like court transcripts about it where they said?

I mean, that's one of the biggest hoaxes.

Ever. Ever. Like it's huge.

Yeah. So what we're going to do is in this episode, I am purely going to tell you the true crime tale of the DeFeo murders.

It's really sad. It's really brutal.

Trigger warning right off the bat.

It's an awful story.

It's like pretty gruesome It's like gun stuff It's rough Unfortunately some of the victims are children Some of the victims are children So it's just really sad And then in part two of this series almost It'll be a totally different episode But it's going to be talking about the Amityville horror hoax And some of the real stuff that could be associated with it We're going to see Ed and Lorraine Warren again in part two They come to stay for spooky season They do They really involve themselves themselves.

So yeah, today we're going to be talking about the DeFeo family murder case, so buckle up everybody.

Alrighty. So when 23 -year -old Ronald DeFeo Jr. borrowed his friend Bobby Kelsky's car on the night of November 13th, 1974, so this was a while ago, it was with the understanding that he was just going to be going down the street just a few blocks to his house and he was going to be right back.

So since he'd gotten out of work that afternoon, Ronald had been been trying to reach anyone at his house.

He said he just couldn't get anyone on the phone and it was starting to make him nervous.

He couldn't get a hold of his parents, any of his brothers or sisters.

And he was like, that's not normal.

I've been trying to get them.

I can't. So he had told Bobby, I'm going to have to go home and break a window to get in.

Because he was really worried at that point.

It was late. Damn. So he took off in the direction of his house and he was saying, I'm just going to go there, check on things, and I'll come right back with a bit later ron came skidding into the parking lot of henry's bar where he had left um and he had barely made it through the door of the bar when he said bob you've got to help me you've got to help me someone shot my mother and father i can't imagine hearing that no so everyone in henry's bar was just like what the fuck like none of them knew how to respond and henry's regular John Altieri said he was hysterical he was shouting everybody

come on somebody shot my father and mother like hysterical all upset you gotta come now okay so of course as he's saying that like you gotta help me a handful of guys jumped up went out to their cars and they were like we'll follow you there so at the time no one knew what to expect because they were like are we really gonna like walk into dead bodies like what's gonna happen here but when they got to their destination the scene at 112 ocean avenue was eerily quiet oh i immediately hate that and it gets worse because it's eerily quiet and then there's just an alarm clock going off from somewhere on the second

floor of the house oh my entire body just warmed i the sound the feeling of that the sound of that was just like oh no i have come home from vacation before and heard my alarm clock going off because like i've forgotten to to put it on or to put it off and it's just it when you walk into your house and you just hear a faint alarm and you're like what the fuck there's something about that i don't know oh yeah i don't know something about something being like so still and quiet and then and then a very normal yeah exactly disrupting yeah a very routine like why and and it's the why hasn't somebody

shut that off yes that's the thing and when you why is that That's still going.

Like that, and that's the thing.

They know that there's brothers and sisters in this house.

There's four other siblings in this house.

So hearing somebody shot my mother and father and then rolling up and hearing an alarm blaring from the second floor and no one's shutting it off.

Oh my God, that's horrible.

I'd be like, what are we about to walk into?

So once he had the car in park, Bobby Kelski and John Altieri didn't hesitate for a second before rushing straight into the house, which like, whoa.

Good for them. them the other people who showed up were a little more cautious they didn't run right in also good for them yeah ron on the other hand waited outside with them and it was interesting yeah very interesting i wouldn't be outside if i thought my entire family was dead inside nope definitely not it was altieri who found the bodies in the main bedroom um the father and mother then they found the two young boys across the hall and altieri was later quoted as saying the little one was in in pajamas and had blood all over him.

I couldn't see where the bullet hole was.

Just think of, like, a little boy in his pajamas in bed, covered in blood.

It's so horrific. While Eltyri and Kelski searched the house, another bar patron, Joey Yezwit, called the police from the phone in the DeFeo's kitchen.

He told the Suffolk County police dispatcher, we have a shooting here.

There's a guy here.

He says, there's been a shooting and everyone's dead.

Which, that's interesting to me, that phrasing, because Ron, you know, some people are saying, like, he's coming into the bar, he says, my mom and dad are shot.

He's still saying that when they get to the house, they're thinking it's just the mom and dad.

And then they find, like, then they find the other two boys, John and Mark.

But then this patron, Joey Yeswick, calls the police from the kitchen and says that Ron came into the bar saying that everybody was shot.

Everybody's dead. So in the commotion, the story got fucked up somewhere.

Yeah, it's a weird little thing and that happens a little bit.

But Officer Kenneth Greguski was in his police car just a few blocks away from the house when the call came in.

So he was the first one to hear it over the radio, and he went right to the DeFeo house.

When he pulled in, Ron DeFeo was crying, and he told Greguski that his father and mother were dead.

Uh -huh. Again. And before taking any statement from anyone, Greguski had DeFeo and Bobby Kelski take him into the house because he was, like, whoa, like, we got to figure out what's going on here, and he had them wait in the kitchen, and he off, and searched the entire house to make sure that the killer was not still inside the house.

Now, upstairs, Grigusky located the main bedroom, which was a very lavishly decorated, you know, bedroom.

It had, like, ornate furniture.

There was a lot of religious statues.

They were a devout Catholic family.

The photos of Louise and Ronald Sr.'s five children in there, This was a very nice home.

They were like pretty well off.

It's a nice area, yeah.

Yeah. Grgowski, though, was not, he could only look at that for so long because he immediately saw two bodies laying face down on the bed.

Louise on the left and Ronald Sr. on the right.

Louise was covered with the gold bedspread, but Grgowski could see a large hole in her nightgown and the blood had soaked all over the mattress between them.

I mean, it was a brutal scene.

Ronald Sr. was uncovered by the, like did not have the blanket over him and was dressed only in boxer shorts.

And his right leg was kind of like hanging a little bit off the bed.

And there was a bullet hole in the small of his back and a trail of blood was leading down onto his boxers.

And they were both face down?

Face down. Everyone was face down.

Now, Officer Graguski made his way from the parents' room to the room across the hall.

And he said he could immediately tell this was like a young boy's bedroom.

From the way it was decorated, he could see toys and games on the floor.

That's so sad. And Graguski immediately saw the two boys, seven -year -old John and 12 -year -old Mark, lying face down in their beds just like their parents.

And he said the blanket covering the boy on the left had been pulled down to his ankles.

And Graguski could tell his pajamas were soaked through with blood.

And he could see a very ragged bullet hole in his lower back.

Oh, my God. The boy on the right was also uncovered.

His white T -shirt was pulled up around his chest, and it revealed a bullet hole in his lower back.

So it's interesting how this is all laid out.

Shot in the back too, everybody, like lower back.

Yeah. Now after discovering those four bodies, Gorgoski returned to the first floor and called the station to report what he'd just seen.

And he requested additional assistance, more officers.

He wanted the coroner there.

And as he talked, the officer could see Ron DeFeo out of the corner of his eye, he said.

And he said Ron was crying.

He was crying softly.

But he said he could tell that he was also listening to what I was saying.

I hate that. Like, it was one of those things like the uh -huh -huh -huh and then like the look over to see what's happening.

And when Graguski hung up the phone, DeFeo said immediately that he had sisters that were also in the house.

Uh -huh. One on the bedroom on the second floor and his oldest sister Dawn was in the attic bedroom.

and immediately it's like i don't know if this is just me but like you find your parents you have four other siblings correct for yeah you don't immediately search for your little siblings when you find your parents dead thank you because if i found my parents dead my first thought would be my little sisters and brothers are in danger right i need to gather them all up and get them the fuck out of this house yes and then call the police exactly but instead you left the house left four children in the house with somebody who shot your parents yeah that doesn't make sense and also you've just heard

this officer now say that your two brothers are dead one you would be losing your mind and two what my first thought wouldn't be well i have two sisters one's on the second floor and one's in the attic i'd be like are my sisters okay where are they yeah like what's going on like you'd be like wait a second like are they all right tell me you didn't say anything about them The way he says it is almost like you haven't found these other two people yet.

So Griguski heard that, heard those two sisters, raced back upstairs to Allison's room on the second floor.

And like the boys' bedroom, there were two beds in the room, but one was made up.

Obviously, it had not been slept in.

And then in the other bed, Griguski could see that, and he was joined by another patrol officer at this point, They found the body of 13 -year -old Allison lying face down, and there was a pink bedspread covering her up to her shoulders.

That's interesting.

She'd been shot in the side of the face.

Oh, my God. And a large pool of blood had collected on the floor next to her bed.

Oh, that's awful. Hers was a very rough one.

Brutal. The two officers found the stairs that went to Don DeFeo's attic bedroom, and they went up slowly, you know, wondering if the killer could possibly be up there.

there. Right. But instead, upstairs, they found 18 -year -old Dawn.

Like the rest of her family, she was face down in bed, covered by the blanket and shot in the chest. So that tells you something different.

She's face down, but she was shot in the chest. By the look of things, nothing had been disturbed in any of the rooms, and there was no apparent sign of struggle.

Okay. If they had to guess, both officers said it looked like someone had entered the DeFeo home in the middle of the the night and killed all six of these people in their sleep in the matter of like seconds yeah like otherwise and to this day even though we'll get into everything like you know ronda feo did this for sure but there is a question of how the fuck did he do this without anybody running out of the house systematically no no one woke up like what why are they all in bed like they're all where they were shot right so like how did this happen it's that's why there is like theories and i'm

not saying they're like credible i'm just saying like that's why people do question like was someone else involved here like was there another person like what happened here i only know that he that ron defao did it and that like i don't know all the major details or i i know all the major details i don't know all the little details yeah well the two officers returned to the first floor, and Gruguski called the station again to report, actually, we have six bodies in the house.

And they said there's no sign of a shooter, can't find anyone, just the DeFeo's only living family member, Ronald DeFeo Jr. Suss.

Now, over the next few hours, you know, homicide detectives showed up, local and county, various crime scene technicians, you know, the coroner, tons of people are at the DeFeo house.

And in the back of the house, they discovered the family's sheepdog shaggy but he was okay shaggy shaggy he's very cute oh um he was tied to the handle of the back door okay shaggy did not sleep outside that's not how shaggy slept shaggy slept in the house and tied to the handle of the back door he was deliberately tied outside okay for what had happened he was very stressed out yeah of course like barking like crazy going that's all the activity in the house like he was losing his mind sheepdogs in particular to like something happening to their family it's their job to round everybody up yeah

so he's probably like I can't protect anybody yeah like I need to go get everybody and it is it's amazing what dogs sense for their family like it's wild like we have like just a little side note no it's true like Like Blanche in particular, our dog Blanche is obsessed with John.

Like literally would crawl into his skin.

I always say she wants to live inside of his rib cage.

She wants to live inside of him.

Like she loves him so much. If you talk to John, she starts barking at you.

Yeah, she doesn't want you to talk to him.

But if John like pretends to tickle me or the girls and like does it, like he'll pretend to do it like, hee hee hee, I'm coming.

blanche will sail through the air and like go after him like it like all loyalty ends there and the loyalty to like you are hurting the rest of my family or what i see that i think you are hurting she goes nuts like she is and then like the same but then the same goes back if you pretend to hurt john she gonna get you like she is loyal to this family she says like ride or die She says Ohana means fucking family, baby.

Yeah, but she's like, even family, you don't fuck with family.

And Sid, too. Yeah, and Sid will lose it.

Like, they are, so it's like, it's wild how dogs just, they tell you a lot.

Well, because you're their pack.

Yeah. Like, it's just innate.

It's so crazy. Like, I fucking love dogs.

Dogs are great. Dogs are so goddamn cool.

Morbid is sponsored by Squarespace.

Squarespace is the all -in -one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online.

With Squarespace's collection of cutting -edge design tools, anyone can build a bespoke online presence that perfectly fits their brand or their business.

Start with Blueprint AI, Squarespace's AI -enhanced website builder, or get a fully customizable website in just a few steps using basic information about your industry, your goals, and personality to generate premium quality content and personalized design recommendations.

Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place.

From consultations, events, and experiences, showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business.

Get paid on time with professional on -brand invoices and online payments, plus streamline your workflow with built -in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools.

Head to squarespace .com slash morbid for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch use offer code morbid to save 10 % off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Hey there my weird weirdos.

I want to take a minute to recommend another podcast called Who Took Misty Copsey.

In September of 1992, 14 -year -old Misty Copsey leaves the Washington State Fair with her best friend and is never seen again.

Her body is never found.

At the time, western Washington is home to prolific serial killers like the Green River Killer which leads to different theories on who's responsible for what happened to Misty.

Over the course of eight episodes, host and cold case investigator Sarah Kalin speaks with Misty's friends and family, looks at police records, and different anonymous tips to try to figure out if Misty's disappearance is the work of a serial killer or someone who knew her.

No suspects are ruled out.

After 33 years, Sarah Kalin hopes to answer the question, who took Misty?

You guys are going to love this.

If you listen to Morbid, we know that you love a cold case, and we always tell you, a cold case is never cold.

So definitely give this a listen.

Definitely look into the case.

Listen to Who Took Misty Copsy wherever you get your podcasts.

But so so yeah, this is weird. This poor dog Shaggy is tied up outside to the handle of the back door.

So officers searched every inch of the house and the property looking for any evidence.

and by all accounts, there was very little, if anything, to be found.

It was like nothing, they had been shot and this person just disappeared.

And there was also no signs of a robbery or a home invasion.

Nothing was missing or even out of place.

So what would the motive be?

There was no sign of a struggle.

To investigators, the lack of evidence was very confusing and very strange.

And the DeFeos lived in one of the most expensive houses in Amityville and would have been prime targets for robbery, but whoever killed the six members of this family appeared to have done so for something other than money.

There was no... or an apparent.

You know, like... And it's also weird to me.

I wonder if people in Amityville are annoyed by this.

I associate Amityville, the word, like, with the Amityville horror.

So when you hear it in reference of just like the residents of Amityville, I'm like, oh that's like a real place no like i'm just like oh shit i was just thinking that as you were saying that it is i was like oh amityville is a town just a regular town like it's not like a spooky town it's supposed to just be like a regular beautiful town it probably is so fucking it's probably so annoying and i'm sorry for the people's family yeah and it's like and like this like you know so it's like i always think anime amityville is so synonymous with like oh spooky it's like i feel bad yeah i'm sorry you're

a real place isn't it just like like a coastal town yeah i think it's just like a nice town and this this particular we'll get you know we'll get into it but they had to they had to do a lot to keep people from coming back to this house a lot no i'm sure got a little annoying does it i'm sorry does the house still exist today i think it does i thought so yeah but it's been renovated it looks a little different it's a it is a beautiful it is yeah there was um they had a sign out front that said high hopes that was It was always pointed at, like, this really tragic story.

And, like, there's this little sign that says, high hopes outside.

It's just, like... The DeFeo family had that out?

It was always this just, like, really chilling thing.

Is that in reference to something?

I think it's just, like, you know, prosperity and...

Oh, okay. You know, all that, like, you know, good luck.

Huh, I've never seen anything like that.

Now, while canvassing the neighborhood, officers took statements from several neighbors that kind of helped narrow down the timeline of what happened here.

According to one neighbor who didn't want to be identified in the press, she said she had gone to bed around 10 p .m. the night before and noticed that all the lights were on in the house.

That's always weird. And she described this as very unusual and something I've never noticed before.

And at 10 p .m.? Like, what?

Yeah, she said usually at that late hours of the evening, she said there were lights on, but that house was only, like, partially lit up.

And another neighbor, 15 -year -old John Nemeth, told officers he'd been woken up by barking of one of the DeFeo's dogs at around 3 a .m. Okay.

And he claimed that this was, and he said it was very unusual at that time of night.

The dog did not bark in the middle of the night.

And he said that the barking actually went on for about 20 minutes.

Oh, that's so sad. And then it stopped.

So that's upsetting.

That's really sad. And given that he was the only living member of the DeFeo family and the only obvious person who stood to gain from the deaths of his parents.

Investigators quickly turned to Ronald to say, what was going on?

What were you doing?

And in their interview with Bobby Kelsky, you know, Ronald's friend, Bobby Kelsky, they learned that Ronald was what Kelsky described as a gun buff.

He owned several guns.

I know, I'm only saying because of this case.

In Ronald's bedroom, investigators found a .22 caliber semi -automatic rifle, a 12 gauge shotgun, 22 caliber bank revolver, a ton of ammunition.

But according to Kelski's statement to police, Ronald's 35 caliber Marlin rifle looked to be missing.

Remember that rifle.

Okay. Now, a little past 8 p .m. that night, county detectives, Gaspar Randazzo, excuse me, and Gerard Gozalof sat down.

They all have very interesting last names.

They do. um gerard gozzeloff sat down with ronald for what would be the first of many interviews with ron told detectives i'll do whatever i have to do i'll help you in any way i can okay and what's funny is like um i i i prod you to go like watch an interview with him yeah because you can see how he comes off as like he's got this new york accent and he's like you know like one of those guys you know i'm just talking to you i'm just talking about stuff you can see how he would come off as very like oh i'll just help you i'm just here to help i'll cooperate i'm just good guy over here you know

like it's just i'm obsessed with what we're doing here he comes off that way yeah and you can see how if he continued that act and somehow got through it he could probably get away with this that's so scary now when they asked who he thought could be responsible for the murders.

They were expecting him to say, I have no fucking clue who would kill my entire family.

I don't know. I could not think of anybody that would murder my entire family.

Well, Ron could think of someone.

I just need to side note here.

He was 23 when this all happened and I need you all to go look at his mugshot because you could tell me this man is like 45 and I'd be like, yeah.

Yeah, he is. He's 23.

He lived a rough life.

Oh, did he? Yeah. Okay.

So I totally I really had to interrupt him.

Sorry. Well, Ron knew of somebody who he thought would kill his whole family.

Tell me everything.

He thought of a guy named Tony Mazio.

He said he was the best suspect for this.

According to Ron, a faction of the New York mafia had a grudge against his family because of his family's involvement in mob -related activity.

Oh, and he just immediately gave that up?

He was just like, bada -boop.

I'm like, uh... He believed Mazio, a supposed mafia hitman, had likely killed his family in order to send a message.

Now, this sounds like what, like, you know, we're like, excuse me, what, you're bringing the mob into here?

But they weren't totally out of the realm of possibility when it was brought up.

It seemed unlikely, but it wasn't one of those, like, you know, anybody else who says that, the mob did it, like, really?

Because according to the Suffolk Police Department's Organized Crime Control Bureau, Ronald DeFeo Sr.'s uncle, Peter DeFeo, was a captain in the Vito Genovese crime family.

That's kind of a big fucking deal.

And had been known to police as a member of the Genovese organization as early as 1934.

Holy shit. Now, that's interesting.

I find that shit so fascinating.

Very interesting. But at the time of the murders, Peter DeFeo was 74 years old.

Right. And he hadn't been involved in criminal activity for nearly a decade at that point.

He He had kind of retired.

He's like Uncle June.

Yeah, he's just, you know, I'm just over here.

Yeah. I'm just Peter DeFeo, okay?

I don't know. I'm not into this.

So any connection between him and the murders was seeming pretty unlikely because like why?

I don't think a 74 -year -old man could kill six men.

I mean, call me crazy.

Yeah. Things happen.

But also like why? A 74 -year -old man killing six members of a family and like...

Well, and even if you say like, okay, maybe it wasn't him.

Maybe he did something that caused them to go after the family.

Sure, yeah. That still doesn't jive really because this is an Italian family.

We're talking about the Italian mafia.

Italian mob. There is a code of conduct and one of those very specific things in that code of conduct for the Italian mob is you do not kill children.

No kids. So this doesn't fit.

It's just not something that would happen because that is a thing.

That's a real thing.

So in his statement to police, Ron explained that the day before the murders, he stayed home from work because he wasn't feeling well.

uh -huh after sleeping for most of the day he woke up early the next morning around 4 a .m and he said when he woke up he saw his brother mark's wheelchair in front of the bathroom door i know like i'm like this poor kid didn't have a chance to even get out of bed it's so sad um and the light was on in the bathroom so he assumed his brother was in the bathroom instead of waiting he said he used another bathroom then decided to go into work early because he was up and why not okay after work he went to henry's bar and had a few drinks with his friends like you normally did and while he was there

he called the house several times but didn't get an answer because you always call your house multiple times when you're out drinking with your friends of course you do after a while he said he became concerned and borrowed kelski's car to go by the house and check on everyone which is when he discovered his parents bodies in their bedroom and didn't bother to check if anybody else was okay yep got it he did not bother to to check on his fucking siblings.

Yeah. He said he had to force the kitchen window lock and he said all the doors were locked and he didn't have a key to the house.

Now, back at Henry's, he gathered all his friends, he returned to the house, but he never went inside again.

Now, to the detectives, DeFeo's narrative was a little confusing.

Because also, how did the person get out of the house that did this to your entire family if all the doors are locked and there's no sign of forced entry?

Yeah, it's a problem.

Just wondering. It's a problem.

problem uh they thought it was a pretty meandering narrative that he was giving and both the detectives found it difficult to follow at points they were like wait what like kind of like us were like what you did what yeah and while ron talked detective gozovof watched his body language and he said he definitely had some interesting body language and he said but he also noticed some marks on his arms and when he asked about the marks to fail confess that he was a regular heroin user okay and had shot up at a friend's house earlier that afternoon.

But Ron was very clear that he didn't want the detectives to get the wrong idea about him.

He wasn't an addict, he said.

He explained he was a chippy shooter and only used drugs casually.

I don't think you can use heroin casually.

That's just me. But it was an interesting note.

They just were like, okay, that's interesting because when you add that into it, you got to look at different avenues here.

So eventually the conversation got back around to the family's supposed mob mob connections and the man ron believed was responsible for the murders tony mazio according to defeo he had been doing some work for his grandfather's car dealership a few weeks earlier and was on his way to the bank to deposit several thousand dollars when he was held up by two gunmen all of a sudden this is coming out okay and when he told his father about the robbery ronald senior didn't believe him and got angry with him that this is what he's telling everybody Apparently, according to him, his father said, not only

do I have to worry about you as far as this phony robbery, but I've also got to lose a good friend.

Because Ronald had explained that Tony Mazio and his father had been friends, but the robbery had caused a rift between the men because his father believed Mazio was the guy responsible.

Even though he didn't believe it happened.

Thank you. This ended their friendship and made the DeFeos a target for a hitman, according to Ron DeFeo Jr. Did he, like, think about this at all?

No. You didn't run this by anyone?

Apparently not. I mean, I'm glad you didn't.

Now, at the time, the detectives found Ron to be very cooperative and the confusing parts of his story could be chalked up.

They said to, now that they know he's using heroin, they were like, you know, he could be under the influence because he's admitted that he shot up like this afternoon, essentially.

And also, he's under a lot of stress.

He just lost his whole family.

So, if it's a little confusing or a little strange, range we at least have to look at it with a benefit of the doubt kind of situation the statement you know and and that's the thing the statement could have ended there he gave a statement told a little bit of a wild tale but it could have just ended there but ron just could not help it he just wanted to add more details he's and what we will learn is when someone's just wanting to add detail after detail they're probably fucking lying yeah because you just that's just the way it is so he He explained that while he did own three rifles, his father

had actually taken them away from him a few weeks earlier, and he'd actually sold one of them.

But he couldn't recall the caliber of the gun or the manufacturer.

Wouldn't that be so convenient, though?

He just happened to sell the one one gun.

And also, first of all, why the fuck would you ever do that?

Second of all, why did they find the guns that were taken away from you in your bedroom?

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

A little weird. He also told them about a cash box that his father kept hidden in their bedroom.

Tony Mazio, he said, had helped them carve the hiding place in the floor where the box was kept.

That's kind of sick.

So if they checked and the box was missing or empty, your killer is Tony over here, because he knew where that cash box was, Tony Mazio.

Okay. Does Tony Mazio exist?

Yeah, actually. And they were like, you kind of just know what happened then.

You seem like you're just telling us, you know what, I bet you'll find an empty cash box and I bet it's him.

You didn't go straight to Tony Mazio's house when you assumed that he killed your whole family?

No, definitely not.

Now, eventually, DeFeo's eagerness to cooperate crossed over from very useful, if exhaustive, but then it got unnecessarily detailed and started to border on suspicious.

suspicious. Yeah. Like as he talks, it's like, it's like we, something's weird here.

He rambled on about his recent criminal past and how, what landed him on parole.

Oh, he was on parole.

He said, I don't want you to think I'm hiding anything from you.

And that's why he said he was telling all the details.

Okay. And the interview process went on until nearly 2 .30 AM.

Damn. And when the detectives asked where DeFeo wanted to sleep that night, he said he couldn't stay with family because he was worried the hitman might find him.

So they allowed him to sleep on a cot in the homicide division because they were like, well, we'll protect you, I guess.

He spent the night there?

Yeah, he spent the night there because they were like, they didn't know where else to bring him because he was like, I can't go anywhere, the hitman will find me, can you protect me?

And they were like, okay.

So they just set up a cot for him in like one of the holding cells and were like, you can stay here.

That's insane. So for Ron, this was preferable because it would allow him, you know, to stay up to date on the investigation as well because he could hear everything Yep While detectives looked into DeFeo's claim about familial mob ties the medical examiner had begun the autopsies on the six unfortunate victims Ronald and Louise DeFeo were each shot twice Ronald in the lower back which had pierced his kidney and shattered part of his spine Oh God Louise was shot in the side and the chest which broke ribs and punctured one of her lungs Wow.

According to the medical examiner, Dr. Howard Adleman, both could have remained alive anywhere from a matter of seconds to a few minutes.

Wow. And just bled internally.

And based on her body position, when she was found and the trajectory of the bullets, Adleman did theorize that Louise had been shot second and had partially risen out of bed when her husband was shot.

Oh, God. That's horrific.

Yeah. It breaks my fucking heart.

I can't imagine. imagine.

John and Mark DeFeo were each shot one time in the back at close range.

Adleman theorized that the killer had stood between the boys' beds and fired in quick succession, shooting each in roughly the same part of the back.

The bullets destroyed several organs before exiting out the abdomen and becoming lodged in the box springs of the bed.

The bullets? Yeah. Oh my god.

Adleman was almost certain neither boy had woken up before being killed, which I guess is a good thing.

because they didn't wake up to know what was happening.

They just were shot in their sleep and never became conscious to know.

And he didn't think that they could have woken up, like, when the parents were killed?

They didn't hear the shots?

That's the thing. That's what doesn't really make sense.

I don't know a lot about guns.

Is it possible he used a silencer?

I don't think so. I don't think they had any evidence that referenced a silencer.

Okay. Because I'm like, did anybody, like, in the neighborhood report hearing gunshots?

Because an assault rifle is loud.

That's the thing. By everything I could find, the gun was not fitted for a silencer.

There was no silencer involved.

They never found a silencer.

Your gun, like specifically, you have to like get it fitted for one.

It did not. This is what makes no fucking sense.

And this is the parts of this that make people go, what the fuck happened in that house?

Because like we were talking about, neighbors heard the dogs barking, but they didn't hear the gunshots.

And why is everyone on their stomach?

Everyone's not sleeping on their stomach. Did he turn them around so as not to see their faces?

A lot of them were shot in the back.

And a lot of them were shot while in bed.

And the shot went through to the box spring.

I mean, it's like they were ordered to do that or something.

The only thing that you can think of, though, is in the middle of the night.

Remember when you would fall asleep in the car and your parents would carry you up to your bed?

Maybe he turned them over and they just didn't wake up.

But he had already shot the parents.

on the same floor that's the part in fact across the hall like john and mark were in a room across the hall from their parents who just got shot four times total yeah with a with a rifle and that's and like i was just saying rifles are fucking loud loud so it doesn't make sense that john and mark wouldn't hear it it doesn't make sense that the neighbors didn't allison wouldn't hear it she's on the same floor she's on the second floor as well even dawn you'd hear that from upstairs she would probably hear it too but the ones on the same floor how that is weird how it doesn't make sense and no one's

really been able to figure it out it's one of these like enduring mysteries but luckily neither boy John or Mark seem to have woken up they seem to have which again very strange that they were both on their stomachs it's just not a not everybody is a stomach sleeper I don't sleep on my stomach no I can't so Allison on the other hand had likely seen her killer her as she rose from her bed like she it seems like she heard something but like again it's very strange because her wound indicated that she had turned around just in time to see her killer fire the bullet entered her cheek and it lacerated

her brain before exiting through her skull and lodging in the wall behind the bed oh my god allison saw her killer yeah like that's horrific and she must have died like very quickly though if it went through her brain her brain just like and again she was found in the bed but like he doesn't say anything nobody says anything about like carrying them back to bed or anything like that so i'm like what is this do they know like around what time everybody was shot they don't have like um not exact times yeah it's not weird that they would be in bed because it was nighttime it was bedtime yeah like

it was they would be in bed such a bomb it was bad it was bad time everyone was in their pajamas yeah you know I wonder if he ordered them to face down, but he obviously never brings that up in his stories.

But it's even weird. But the medical examiner thought the boys were sleeping?

The boys, it seems, were sleeping, but I don't know.

It's like, this is what's so weird. It doesn't make sense.

None of it makes sense.

Every time you think you can figure it out, you're like, why though?

And even if he had ordered them to stay down, I mean, Don is 18.

He obviously got rid of the parents first, but like i feel like don could have like potentially overtaken him somehow you know and it doesn't sound like there's evidence that she tried to yeah i mean he's got a rifle which is terrifying so but there's other guns in the house if he's holding a rifle at you and saying turn around i guess like you know i'm not gonna argue with a rifle that pointed at me no i can understand that for like the first couple but like then the rest of them are hearing the shots why aren't they running hearing the shots yeah they're waiting until he gets to their bedroom

and then well okay so maybe so he gets rid of the parents immediately like that makes sense like they couldn't do anything the two boys were sleeping sometimes kids don't fucking wake up like it's crazy to think that like with a assault rifle shot they wouldn't wake up yeah but maybe he walked in their room and ordered them to turn around and you just boom boom and then allison and wakes up because she's heard all of that.

And that's why she's up and he shoots her essentially in the face.

And then who knows, maybe Don did try to get past him and he ordered her back up the stairs with the assault rifle.

But, like, why didn't any of the neighbors hear gunshots?

That I can't explain.

That they heard a dog barking.

That I can't explain.

Like, it just, I'm so confused by it.

Or I don't, I mean, I know this is, like, a nice area.

Yeah. Maybe people heard things and just didn't want to say that they did.

But why? Like people were found dead by gunshots.

It's not like you'd be weird to be like, oh, I heard something that I didn't know was a gunshot.

Maybe they just didn't want to be involved at all.

But they were. They were offering information.

They were saying, I heard the dog barking.

They were saying, let me tell you about this family.

They were saying, I saw lights on.

It is bizarre. It just doesn't make sense.

It really doesn't. It's so strange.

Summer is in full swing.

Whether you're traveling, taking kids to summer camp, or heading to the pool, we are all looking for ways to stay healthy and save money this summer.

With GoToRx, you can save up to 80 % on prescriptions for you and your family.

Pets too. Check GoToRx before every single trip to the pharmacy for big savings on both brand and generic medications.

GoToRx is free and it's easy to use.

Just search for your prescription on the website or the app, compare prices, and get a free coupon to show your pharmacist. Use GoodRx to save at over 70 ,000 local pharmacies nationwide, including Walmart, Walgreens, CBS, Publix, Kroger, and many more.

And now, you can enroll in GoodRx Rewards and earn points every time that you use a coupon at the pharmacy.

Remember, GoodRx is not insurance, but it works whether you have insurance or not, and it could even beat your insurance co -pay price.

Today, I saved $5 on a prescription for my grandpa because I pulled up the GoodRx app and I said, look at this.

So you could save too.

Save at the pharmacy this summer with GoodRx.

Go to GoodRx .com slash morbid.

That's GoodRx .com slash morbid.

We all want to be the best version of ourselves.

And of course, fitness is a key component of that.

The folks at Anytime Fitness, well, they see all you strivers out there striving, and they have the expertise to help to help you optimize your efforts inside the gym and out.

If you are actively pursuing your goal to be fit and strong, not just for bigger muscles, but for a bigger, better life, Anytime Fitness has everything you need to do just that.

They have all the equipment you need, plus easy anytime access to more than 5 ,000 global locations.

Anytime Fitness helps you train to be a stronger, more confident, more badass version of yourself with expert coaching to help you optimize your personalized training, training, nutrition, and recovery plan.

Get started today at AnytimeFitness .com.

That's AnytimeFitness .com.

But Dawn's wounds were the most horrific, I would say.

Yeah. The killer had stood about two feet away from her, according to the medical examiner, as she slept, shooting her in the back of the neck, neck, just below her left ear.

Wow. And according to the autopsy report, the left side of her face had collapsed and brain particles mixed with the blood saturating on her pillow.

Wow. She had a very disfiguring injury.

Yeah. And nobody else really did aside, I guess, from Allison.

Yeah. And she was shot right in the back of the neck.

And it's again, face down.

And from what the The medical examiner was thinking was sleeping.

Can you know if somebody's sleeping?

Probably just because of the trajectory and what they're looking at.

They're saying, like, there was no movement.

You know, like they didn't try to move away from the bullet.

Like, which your instinct is to move away from something that's going to hurt you.

So if you're not moving away from it, they assume you have to be in an unconscious state.

But then if you're in bed and you know he's coming, there's not really any way out of that.

so maybe she just cowered in bed.

But she didn't even do that.

What do you mean? Her head was on her pillow.

And she was shot right in the back of the neck.

If she had cowered, it would have, like, potentially, like, skimmed another side or, like, moved.

That's what they did.

Like, seeing where the bullet goes in and how there's no, like, movement to get away from it will tell you that that person wasn't conscious.

I don't know. Because her head was right on her pillow.

Yeah. And if she's trying to, like, cower away...

No, she was face down as well.

She was shot right in the back of the neck, but I think what happened was it went out her.

Just the exit. Okay, all right.

The way it had hit collapsed to the side of her face kind of thing.

I don't know. I'm trying.

Yeah. People have been trying for decades.

I think it's just like, it doesn't make sense.

That's why this is such a strange case.

Yeah. Not only is the crime horrific, And when you look at it, there's really no fucking real motive for this.

There's also just these weird parts of like, what?

And like the family's a little mysterious when you really dig into it.

And it's like, oh, really?

Then you got those like, you know, there's not mob ties.

But it's like, you know, like somewhere in that family, there's like mob ties.

Mob history. This has nothing to do with the mob.

But it's like, it's just like a weird layer on top of it.

It's all very strange.

change but all six members of the defer family had died from quote massive hemorrhaging due to bullet wounds yeah now when the news of the murders hit the press the next morning everyone in amityville were stunned they were stunned that such a brutal crime was happening in that small town it's a very idyllic town like we said everyone described the defails as a nice normal family who were always willing to lend a hand when someone else was in need one of the neighbors said like Like, Ronald DeFeo Sr. drove her to work every day when her car died.

One neighbor told a reporter of Ronald and Louise they could not do enough for their children.

The whole world was oriented around their children.

They were very involved in their community as well, according to most, like, all the good things.

While the neighbors had nothing but kind words to say about the victims, most people were decidedly less enthusiastic about Ronald DeFeo Jr. Yeah.

Yeah. According to one neighbor, Ronald was part of a crowd that would drink and then get into fights, but the next day they'd apologize.

Okay. She recalled an instance in recent months where Ronald had gotten into an argument while at a bar with some friends, and he had broken a pool cue in half because he was angry.

Yikes. Now, neighbors referred to him as creepy, always lurking around.

It was theorized that because it was a big Italian family, the firstborn son is usually, like, there, you know, and just was supposed to carry, looked to as an important part of the family line.

Yeah, of course. But according to those that knew him, Ronald DeFeo Jr. was like not the ideal heir.

He was a mess, like just a mess.

Okay. He was always in trouble, always getting into things.

Yeah. He would go out partying and then he would bring those parties back to the DeFeo house late at night, always causing issues.

There was a lot of theories about, you know, his relationship with his father, which seemed to not be a good relationship.

Well, his dad was probably disappointed.

Yes, and I think they also had like a very volatile relationship where it got physical a lot between the two of them.

That's really sad. It was like a fist fight, like essentially.

That should never happen.

No, it's awful. Now, for their part, a spokesperson for local law enforcement told reporters the murders were a real neat job, indicating that there was very little evidence left at the scene and very few leads to work with.

They were like, there's literally nothing, very clean.

There was no signs of struggle, robbery, leading investigators to believe the motive had just been murder.

Yeah. Like a murder.

They were either going after one of the people and the rest were collateral or it was all of them.

It was just. So while DeFeo slept in the homicide unit that night, investigators got word from the medical examiner that all of the DeFeos had been killed with a .35 caliber Marlin rifle.

Imagine that. Exactly the model and caliber Bobby Kelski had mentioned when police interviewed him at the scene and the only gun that Ronald DeFeo could not account for.

Like, you really, you only lost that one?

Yeah, only that one.

A little bit later, they got word from one of the technicians that upon a second search of the house, they discovered a box for a .35 caliber Marlin rifle, like a box of, like, to hold the gun.

Yeah. Hidden in Ron DeFeo's closet.

I gotta go. The gun they couldn't find.

At the very least, the box indicated that DeFeo had owned the same model gun used in the murders.

Until that point, investigators had given Ron the benefit of the doubt.

You know, losing your whole family in one night, you know, he might be under the influence.

There's a lot going on.

Yeah, many factors here.

But now they were starting to wonder if they just had their suspect in custody already.

Willingly. Literally.

Around nine the next morning, November 15th, detective gazaloff and several other homicide detectives returned to the office and woke up ron who immediately asked whether they'd found tony mazio yet okay gazaloff told him uh well we got people out looking for tony mazio but he said to tell you the truth i think you're the guy we want damn just like like woke him up and hit him hit him the fail was like what are you talking like incredulous insisted tony mazio was the guy they wanted but the detectives read him his rights and took him into custody for the murder of his parents, brothers, and sisters.

When he was asked whether he wanted to speak to his lawyer, Ron said he waived his right to counsel and he said he was willing to cooperate.

Ron began the second interview by insisting that his family had been killed by the New York mob.

But by then, Gosloff and the other investigators had assembled and presented the evidence that strongly indicated that Ron was involved.

Close, Ron. At one point, he claimed that he was just smoking pot in the basement when it happened and he didn't hear anything.

Well, that doesn't make sense.

And then later he claimed he heard the gunshots.

He came up with so many different things.

But before that, Gazaloff said, let's go back to the day before and let's start over.

And then he said, let's start with supper.

Now being confronted by all the evidence and the fact that they were like, we pretty much know you were involved seemed to flip a little switch and wrong.

But before then he was crying.

He was upset. He was, I will do nothing but cooperate here, whatever I can do.

But now it's like he took off a mask and his true feelings came out.

So Gazalov said, let's start with supper.

And he said, my mother was a lousy cook.

And they were like, oh.

And she said, she cooked up some brown stuff in a bowl.

It looked like like shit and it smelled like shit nice and they were like fun nice to speak of your recently deceased and murdered mother that way yeah and these unkind comments about his mother seemed wildly inappropriate to the investigator set and they were like wow okay but rome was just getting started he wasn't done oh no when they asked him about john and mark his little brothers he said my brothers is a couple of fucking pigs and he said i often use the bathroom that they used on the second floor and i go in there and sometimes there's toilet paper hanging out of the bowl i mean yeah they

were like seven and twelve twelve that checks yeah kids are a lot and it's like try following up a bathroom after a kid yeah exactly and also they're your little brothers who were shot in their beds and you're just talking about them calling you're just calling them fucking pigs and like what just were murdered and his feelings about his sisters were not any better her uh about dawn and this is like terrible just so everybody knows he said he said that fat fuck dawn oh my god and then he talked about the kind of music that she listened to over and over and he used a racial slur over and over oh um

that the one you're thinking over and over he said she listened to that music all day and all night and i can't even tell her to turn it down because if i I tell her to turn it down I get my fucking ass kicked okay so now he's referring again to the allegations that Ronald DeFeo Sr. was abusive to his family okay now he claimed that now after this he claimed that Dawn shot all the family members including the kids and then he shot her in a rage about it okay and then he also claimed he shot Dawn in self -defense because she was going to to shoot him with a rifle.

After ranting about his mother and the rest of the family and claiming that Dawn did it no she didn't actually she did maybe not I don't know I shot her but then whatever Ron launched into a big long rant about his father who he referred to as a cheat bastard and he talked about his grandfather kind of equally the same way as unkind.

His grandpa? Yeah and the other members of the family when he was finally done giving his brutally honest roast opinion of his family.

DeFeo still hadn't confessed to the murders at this point.

But it was pretty clear.

But to Gosloff and the others, it seemed like he was pretty ready to do that.

Without saying a word, the detectives got up from the table and left the room and were replaced by Dennis Rafferty, who was a homicide detective with the Amityville Police.

Rafferty spent the next six and a half hours with Ron.

And during this, he completely confessed to the murders of the family okay it was clear that ron hated his family like it was very clear he was acting all broken up before but suddenly when that evidence was presented it was like mask off they all suck ass let me tell you about all of them he especially hated his father yeah um he fought with his father constantly but it seemed like his motive was not that and completely at least his motive was money okay according to defayo his parents had a life insurance policy worth $200 ,000.

Okay. In 2024 money, that's over a million dollars, over $1 .2 million, actually.

And as the only surviving member of the family, Ron would have been the beneficiary of that policy.

Uh -huh. On the night of the murders, Ronald woke up on the couch a little before 3 a .m. He went up to his bedroom, loaded his rifle, and went room by room shooting and killing his whole family.

3 a .m. Yep. He told Rafferty, I just started and it went so fast I couldn't stop.

He just woke up and just in that moment decided to kill them?

Uh -huh. Okay. When he killed everyone in the house, Ron collected the shell casings and his bloody clothing into a pillowcase.

He took a shower, he trimmed his beard, and then he left the house.

He threw the rifle into a pond down the street and eventually he ditched the pillowcase and other evidence in a storm drain in Brooklyn on his way to work.

Then he just went to work.

What the fuck? Fuck.

When he was finished giving his confession, Rafferty asked whether DeFeo would sign a sworn statement that what he told them was true.

But he refused, and he told the detectives he would not because he feared his grandfather, Michael Brigante, would see it.

Okay. And it's like, he's gonna hear about it.

Uh -huh. Now, using the two diagrams Ron had drawn for them, detectives were able to locate the gun and the pillowcase full of shells and other evidence, which were brought back to the precinct And DeFeo identified them as his belongings.

Meanwhile, the clothing Ronald was wearing was taken as evidence, and he was charged and booked with six counts of second -degree murder.

And he was taken into custody and held in detention until a grand jury was going to be convened in the coming days.

Now, Dave found an interesting tidbit here.

That first -degree murder at the time was reserved for those who killed a police officer or a prison guard. Oh, so it had nothing to do with Mellis' fourth off?

Yeah, it was just like that was at the moment that was what that, in 74.

We have come across this before.

I'm fairly certain of it, but I always find it interesting.

Yeah, that is interesting.

No, the news of Ronald's arrest shocked Amityville almost as much as the murders had shocked Amityville.

DeFeo's friend, Glenn Hoffman, told a reporter, I can't believe it.

I can't believe it even if they say it's true.

He could have been set up for it.

You don't know what's involved.

Okay. For many, Ron's original claim of mafia involvement seemed more plausible than a son and a brother murdering his entire family for no fucking reason.

I mean, yeah, that is hard to swallow.

Even his probation officer, William Benjamin, was stunned and said nothing indicated he could have resorted to violence of this kind.

That's kind of crazy.

Now, DeFeo was arranged in the 1st District Court on November 15th, where his defense attorney, Leonard Simmons, requested a psychiatric examination.

He told the judge, I have doubts about the defendant's ability to help in his own defense.

Simmons also claimed that DeFeo had bruises on his body, which implied that he'd been abused by investigators while in custody.

Judge Donald Operin refused the defense's request for a psychiatric examination and refused bail.

Nearly a year went by between the arrest and the trial.

Damn. Yeah, most of it was, like, pre -trial hearings.

The defense teams repeated an unsuccessful attempt to get Ron's confession group thrown out.

They wanted to get it thrown out on the grounds that it was obtained through coercion.

During this whole period, the prosecution called on a lot of the detectives who were involved in the interview process.

And Dennis Rafferty said, it was a tricky situation.

We started out dealing with a guy who was the sole survivor of a family massacre, but the more we questioned him, the more holes there were in his account.

And he kept changing things until finally he started crying, put his head on my shoulder, and told me, it just started, it went so fast, I just couldn't stop.

Damn. Like, what are you going to do?

And Rafferty explained they began to suspect that Faye was lying when he went from telling them he'd heard nothing that night to then changing his story several times to say he heard multiple gunshots and that he had even seen his brother John's toes twitching at one point when he discovered them.

Because then he went back and said, well, I did discover the bodies of my siblings and I saw John was alive.

What? Yeah. Yeah. Rafferty said that indicated to me that he was there right after the shooting took place.

Right. And when Rafferty pointed that out, DeFeo changed his story again and said a hitman came to do it, the mob story again, and that the hitman actually made him watch everything at gunpoint, and that's why he saw his brother John's toes twitching.

And you would totally be super down to then tell the cops everything.

Yeah. And he said, so Rafferty had said to him, they wouldn't walk out without making you a piece of it.

They must have made you do one of the shootings.

Like, that's how hitmen work.

Like, that's how the mob works.

You're not leaving here unless you have blood on your hands, so you'll shut your mouth.

You won't go and talk to the police.

It was at that point that DeFeo broke down and confessed to the murders.

Okay. Now, DeFeo, on the other hand, claimed that while he was in custody, the detectives beat him until he finally told them everything that they wanted to hear about how, quote, I supposedly killed every member of my family.

Okay. According to DeFeo's testimony, investigators started abusing him at the house next to the DeFeo home, which they had set up as a command post at first, and continued abusing him until he, through him being placed under arrest. Okay.

So, according to him, they think this man just lost his entire family and they started beating the shit out of him.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Hey, weirdos! You know Ash and I have covered some seriously dark tales about romance gone really wrong.

Oh yeah, there are so many cases where too good to be true turns out to be exactly that.

Well, get ready for a love story that's gonna blow your minds, because this one is happening right now.

And get this! It's hosted by our friends Hannah and Saruti from Red Handed!

Meet Travis. He falls head over heels for Lily Rose.

She's gorgeous, she's understanding, and she's literally perfect and she's not human that's right Lily Rose is an AI companion a computer program designed to be Travis's dream woman and at first it seems like a perfect relationship but when Lily Rose's behavior starts getting strange this love story takes a dark and twisted turn that no one saw coming follow Flesh and Code on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can binge all episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus now he claimed they refused to let him eat or sleep during interrogation and they denied him his request

for an attorney even though he had waived his right and they gave him a cot to sleep on de feo told judge stark i fell down they stomped on my stomach then my back and my legs they put a telephone book on my head and hit me with black jacks and then finally put a shopping bag over my head and slam my head into either the wall or the filing cabinet cabinet.

Totally. Considering that the prosecution's case rested almost entirely on the confession, the claim that it was obtained illegally was taken very seriously.

I'm sure, and you have to take that seriously.

Yeah, and the prosecution had to prove that it was.

The problem for DeFeo, though, was that his claims were extraordinary, and so they very much needed to be backed up by evidence of this supposed beating.

But the only injury anyone saw at the time of his arraignment was a small, mostly healed cut above his eye.

And in the rebuttal, the prosecutor, Gerard Sullivan, called on one of DeFeo's school friends who told the judge that he had been at the house about a week before the murder and had seen Ronald and his father get into a fistfight.

Oh. And he said during that fistfight, he got that minor injury above his eye.

That's really sad. Which is sad.

Now, Judge Stark later wrote, I found that DeFeo's testimony was largely untruthful.

His testimony was that he was given no food or drink, not permitted to sleep for over 24 hours.

It seemed totally unreasonable and unbelievable.

His failure to complain to the district court judge on November 15th about the alleged extreme police brutality the previous day, nor to mention it in any documents supporting his pre -trial motions, was a factor leading me to believe it never occurred.

Yeah, because also if he walked in there after— after first of all i don't think the cops would beat the shit out of him a day before he has to stand before a judge yeah it's not a good look and a judge would notice that and do something about it and he would complain about it yeah he would say they beat the shit out of me this is why i'm here right this is so he so um this was the biggest factor in stark's decision and after considering the evidence and testimony he ruled that the confession was given voluntarily it was was going to be admissible in the trial.

Okay. So with the pre -trial hearings out of the way, Ron DeFeo's murder trial began on October 6th, 1975 in the Supreme Court of New York.

In the opening statements, Gerard Sullivan laid out the state's theory that DeFeo had murdered his family because of his, quote, deteriorating relationship with his parents and because of another separate and distinctive reason, a thirst for money.

Sullivan told the jury the prosecution would prove beyond a reasonable doubt that ron had committed hadn't committed the murders impulsively but had in fact acted on a methodical plan that began with tying the dog outside because that's a big part of this yeah you tied the fucking dog exactly you didn't just walk up there and start shooting you tied the dog up that shows a plan in action and it ended with him calmly and methodically picking up exhausted exhausted bullets and casings, taking off his bloodstained clothing, trimming his beard and getting rid of all of that in a Brooklyn storm drain.

Also the thought of him just trimming his beard in the house where all of his family lay dead because of him is fucking horrifying.

Chilling. Chilling to the bone.

Meanwhile, the dog is tied up outside barking his ass off because you tied him up because you planned it.

That's so scary. In his opening remarks, the defense attorney, William Weber, who is a real piece of work, told the jury they would prove that DeFeo's confession was beaten out of him and that he was not mentally competent when the slayings took place, which is like, what?

Where did that come from?

Weber assured the jury that DeFeo would take the stand and, quote, tell you the truth about what happened at that house that night.

I doubt it. And they would also call multiple psychiatrists who would testify that Ronald DeFeo Jr. was not of sound mind and thus couldn't be held responsible for whatever had happened that night.

Okay. The prosecution had a relatively straightforward tale to tell.

It was the one that most people were already familiar with because it had a lot of press coverage.

The medical examiner testified, you know, to the extent of the victim's wounds, including the fact that at least two of the victims, Louise and Don, had been conscious and aware before they were shot.

I think also Allison, they believed, was possibly conscious.

Okay. In the days that followed, several investigators detailed their experiences at the crime scene and their interactions with DeFeo before and after his arrest. Detective Gozalov, for example, told the jury about his various interviews with DeFeo and Ron's disclosure that he was an active heroin user who had injected drugs as recently as the day of the murder.

Now, the most important testimony came from those investigators who had taken multiple statements from Ron DeFeo.

In his testimony, Dennis Rafferty told the jury that Ron had given multiple accounts, amounts ranging from him simply discovering some of the bodies to his hearing the shots and then eventually his confession that he acted alone in killing all six members of his family by then the detective explained that they already strongly suspected that he was the murderer right based on the inconsistency in his stories and the various pieces of evidence that they got from the scene which included the ammunition tons of it and the box for the marlin rifle that was used in the the murder and hidden yeah so rafferty's

testimony was backed up by the other detectives present during this time including lieutenant robert dunn who told the jury i got up and left the room in awe of the horror of what i had just heard dunn who was a member of the organized crime unit explained that he was called in by the local authorities because of that whole claim about the tony mazio thing the members of the mafia involved however they investigated that claim and he said there's absolutely no ties to that whatsoever.

Yeah. Finally, Dunn also refuted the claim that DeFeo was mistreated and abused while in police custody and he said as far as he knew and saw, he gave his confession completely voluntarily.

Right. Now, the state's case against DeFeo was strong and supported by evidence.

But Sullivan nonetheless anticipated an insanity defense and was prepared with witnesses to combat that claim.

In her testimony for the prosecution, prosecution, DeFeo's aunt Phyllis Percito, so DeFeo's aunt, told the jury Ronald's history of mental illness was a hoax perpetrated in order to keep Ron from being sent to Vietnam.

Yeah. According to her The plot fucking thickens.

It does. According to the aunt, about a year before the murder, she was quote, introduced to a man who claimed to have been paid $5 ,000 to keep Ron out of the U .S. Army.

Oh, fuck. This was among several examples where Ronald Sr. seemingly paid or otherwise compensated individuals to keep his son out of trouble or to get him out of trouble that he had already been in.

On November 6th, Ron DeFeo Jr. took the stand to testify on his own behalf.

That must have been something.

And he wanted to provide support for that insanity defense.

According to his testimony, DeFeo told Weber and the jury that he felt, quote, duty bound to kill anyone he considered a threat.

and he saw nothing wrong with killing his entire family, which he claimed was done in self -defense.

Even the seven -year -old.

Yeah, that makes sense.

He said, quote, when I have a gun in my hand, I'm God.

According to DeFeo, he woke up on the couch the night of the murders and saw his sister Dawn standing before him in the living room with the rifle in her hands.

And she told him that she was going to kill everyone.

So he said, I took the rifle away from her and she just disappeared.

And I walked a few feet into my parents' bedroom and I just started to shoot.

That doesn't make any sense.

What? When he was cross -examined by Sullivan, DeFeo reiterated that he had killed all six members of his family, but then later in his testimony to the prosecution, he claimed he believed his sister, Dawn, had killed his brothers.

Okay. According to DeFeo, Dawn was constantly at odds with their parents, and their arguments did frequently escalate to violent confrontations between her and their father.

This is according to Ron DeFeo.

Okay. Okay. He said, on the stand, he said, I should have let them kill each other.

Ooh. I believe this was not a happy household all the time.

Yeah, that's sad. But it's all, you know, this is all just coming from his mouth as well.

Yeah, so you have to take it with a bit of a grain of salt.

In defense of his insanity plea, Ronald told the jury he frequently heard voices in the house, coming from the house, which is where we get the next.

The haunting. And had command hallucinations that instructed him to act out violently.

He said, for months before the incident, I heard voices.

And whenever I looked around, there was no one there.

So it must have been God talking to me.

Probably not. When Weber asked if he thought anyone in the courtroom had been trying to kill him, he replied, yeah, Phyllis Prosito, my aunt, who was sitting out there.

That's new. That's new information.

Yeah. So upon redirection, Sullivan said, is there anyone else you think is trying to kill you?

And he said, you. He's really trying for that insanity defense.

Yeah. It seems that Phyllis Percito wasn't the only witness the prosecution had planned to undermine DeFeo's claims of insanity.

They also called out a former cellmate of his, a cellmate that he had apparently boasted about his planned defense to.

Oh, gosh. According to John Kramer, who shared a cell next to DeFeo in the sickbay, Ron had told him about his plan to plead insanity and boasted that he was, quote, bigger than Charles Manson.

Oh, please. Louise Kramer told the jury he was in the cell next to me in the sick bay area of the jail and he kept telling me all these things even after I told him I didn't want to hear anything or get involved Sullivan also subpoenaed several of the guards at the jail who testified that DeFeo had asked them how the mentally ill inmates acted when they were locked up I always wonder why inmates will do that because I'm like do you not think that these people have like that they're They're not going to rat on you?

Do you think they have?

That's their literal job.

Like, do you think they have any loyalty to you?

Do you just think? Do you think at all?

Do you think? So one of the guards, James DeVito, basically when DeFeo had asked him, like, how do they act?

He said he told him inmates burned things, pretended to forget the names of prisoners and guards whom they knew, sat on a shelf in the cell, and feigned suicide attempts.

Okay. And according to DeVito, right after I told him those things, he began doing them all and yelling at me to enter them in the logbook, but I considered them silly and refused to make any entries except for the incident when he tried to set the cell on fire.

Oh, my God. Now, towards the end of the trial, Sullivan called Dr. Harold Zolan to testify as to his experience evaluating Ron following his arrest. Zolan testified that he diagnosed DeFeo with an antisocial personality.

I could see that. But he added that the diagnosis did not affect his ability to tell right from wrong.

Right. And insisted he, quote, was aware of what he was doing when he killed his parents and four brothers and sisters.

Yup. Zolan further said if he was in any paranoid psychosis, there would be no compulsion for him to hide the signs of his wrongdoings, such as trying to destroy the evidence or lie to the police.

Right. On November 19th, the trial came to a close after each side gave their closing remarks.

And in his statement, Gerard Sullivan went over all the evidence, all the testimony for the jury, and reminded them that DeFeo had confessed to the crime, but only recently had started claiming that he was mentally ill when he killed his family.

Rather than insanity, Sullivan restated the state's belief that DeFeo callously, calmly, and coldly planned the execution of his family, carried them out, and then went about carefully taking the murder rifle and the used cartridges and his bloodstained clothing and hiding them in an obscure Brooklyn storm drain to cover up his role in the murders.

He reminded the jury that no one was denying that DeFeo was sick, only that he wasn't so impaired that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

Now, William Weber, on the other hand, said while his client had committed the murders, he had only done so because he was insane at the time and was heavily influenced by psychotic delusions.

Also, he continued to assert that DeFeo had only confessed after being beaten and abused by investigators.

Now, at the time, Ron DeFeo's trial was the longest criminal trial held in Suffolk County, outlasting nearly a month and a half.

After almost three days of deliberation, the jury emerged a little before noon on November 21st and announced that they had reached a unanimous decision, finding Ron DeFeo guilty on all six counts of second -degree murder.

Suffolk County District Attorney Henry O 'Brien said in a statement to the press, I'm extremely pleased the members of this jury realized the viciousness of the defendant and have removed a menace to our community.

When asked for comment on the verdict, defense attorney William Weber shook his head and said, I'm glad I wasn't a member of that jury.

What does that even mean?

Okay. You are the defense attorney, though.

That's an even worse position.

I'm like, I don't really get it.

Because you lost. So for the jurors, it really all came down to his attempts to hide the evidence and conceal his guilt after committing the murders.

That's what it would be for me.

Yeah, like the spent shells, his clothing.

like the fact that he's showered and trimmed his beard he was of sound mind you know what he was doing um one of the jurors said that was a major sign of guilt he knew what he was doing yep on november 4th ronald ron was back before judge thomas stark for sentencing and at the time sullivan urged the court to show to not show any mercy in handing down to feo's sentence describing the crime as an event so appalling and cataclysmic that it is without equal Yeah.

It's true. It's an annihilation.

Like the jurors, Judge Stark couldn't ignore the extent that DeFeo went to to conceal his criminal acts and deflect the guilt onto innocent people as well.

Yeah. He was trying to get someone else to go down for this.

Right. He said, I stated my intention to impose life sentences with the longest minimum period possible.

I then imposed six sentences of life imprisonment, each with a minimum of 25 years to run consecutively with respect to each other.

Damn. So he handed down six life sentences.

to him so i think that's what he deserved so i found this article by marvin scott from long island um we'll include it somewhere but he had followed the story closely and he'd spoken via letters to defayo a lot and one of the letters with defayo defayo said he admitted there was absolutely no voices in the house even though he had claimed on the stand that there was he said there was no insanity and he wrote there was no demon you know who the demon is I'm the demon oh that's even scarier yeah now and he also claimed later that there was never a question of sanity and everyone knew it he said

his defense attorney William Weber capitalized on that and he wanted to get book deals and a movie going about the case so he he wanted that insanity and he actually tried to get a new trial later based on his claims of this with the previous defense, but he didn't get one.

Now, in the years that followed, Ronald DeFeo and his defense attorney, William Weber, did file multiple appeals and petitions for parole at various points, maintaining his innocence and claims of mental illness, even though later they would abandon that.

But each of the attempts was denied by the appeal courts and the parole board. And ultimately, DeFeo would spend the rest of his life in New York's prison system until his death, On March 12th, 2021.

I was going to say.

But no one knows how he died.

How old was he? He was 69.

And they don't know how he died at all?

They know how he died.

We don't know how he died.

It's undisclosed. You can't find it anywhere.

Do you think it's just to add to the...

I don't know. I mean, I don't know why anybody would want to do that.

But I don't know. Oh.

That's bizarre. Yeah, I don't know if someone took him out or what.

And under normal circumstances, this, you know, Ron DeFeo's post -conviction life would probably have just, like, faded into obscurity, like resurfacing every now and then, you know, as one does.

Sure. But a few years after his conviction, DeFeo's crimes in his defense would become the basis for one of America's most sensational and controversial paranormal stories.

You know what I'm talking about.

The Amityville Horror.

We're talking about Kathy and...

George? George Lutz.

That's what it is. I was like, what's his name?

Steve George? Steve George.

Like, basic white man names?

Yep. So it ensured that his legacy went much further than his death.

Yeah. But next we will be talking about the wild tale that is The Amityville Horror and all that surrounds it.

The bleeding, oozing walls.

Yep. The bleeding walls.

The pigs. Yep. We'll be talking about it all.

it all. We'll be talking about the Ed and Lorraine Warren of it all.

The preachers All the things associated with it because there's so many things.

It's going to get wily as fuck next time.

Yes. Wily See you then.

So we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you annihilate your entire family because what the fuck is up with that?

That's really fucked up That's way too weird. I hate that Satsang with Mooji If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon Music.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery .com slash survey.

Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast, American Scandal.

We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U .S. history, events that have shaped who we are as a country and that continue to define the American experience.

American Scandal tells marquee stories about American politics, Like the break -in at the Watergate Hotel, an event that led to the downfall of a president and raised questions about the future of American democracy.

We go behind the scenes looking at devastating financial crimes, like the fraud committed at Enron and Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme.

And we tell stories of complicated public figures like Edward Snowden and Monica Lewinsky, people who found themselves thrust into the spotlight and who spurred debates about the future of the country.

Follow American Scandal wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen ad -free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app.

[The DeFeo Family Murders: Unveiling the True Crime Behind Amityville]-[Episode 609: The DeFeo Family Murder]

📋 Summary

The DeFeo Family Murders: A Brutal Reality

The Discovery and DeFeo's Deception

The Investigation: From Mob Ties to Cold Confession

The Trial and the Insanity Plea

Conclusion and Legacy

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript