Episode 605: The Stars Over Salem with Special Guest Aliza Kelly | Morbid

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Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash.

And I'm Elena. And I'm Aliza.

And this is a special edition of Morbid.

so special this is so cool we have eliza kelly on the show today best -selling author professional astrologer and host of pave's new show horoscope weekly with eliza kelly welcome thank you so much i'm so excited to be here a fellow weirdo yes i love that a lifelong weirdo weirdos unite the vibes are right yes we knew immediately we were like oh weirdos unite night yeah i mean i can i could sniff out a weirdo from miles away so yeah this is perfect home sweet home for me i love it game c game so we're gonna be getting into elena's roman empire uh the salem witch trials again i know you all said

that before ash did they were like oh we're talking about salem they're like really they're jack the ripper of salem yes one of those two things one of the two but we're putting a fun spin on it this time yeah and we're going to of talk about like the astrological events that were going on.

And just to start us off, Aliza, how did you get into astrology?

Was it something you've always been interested in?

Was it something that just like knocked on your door?

Well, I mean, it's sort of a combination.

I mean, as I mentioned, lifelong weirdo here, you know, so I don't think that anyone was surprised when I started to gravitate more towards astrology.

But at the same time, I was really quite surprised by it.

I was in my early twenties.

I was living in Los Angeles.

I was at that time working.

I had graduated with a degree in art history.

I was working in galleries and I was finding myself increasingly dissatisfied with my life and just feeling that, I mean, what we all go through in our early twenties, what many of us do, the sense of like confusion, who am I?

What am I doing? And I started to try to solve that puzzle.

And I found my birth chart.

I found out that not only Only was I a Leo sun, which I related to a little bit, but not fully, but discovering I was a Pisces moon.

Really? Seem. Oh, my God.

Look at that. It's a big breakthrough when you get that place in.

Yeah, and it unlocked so much for me.

And then from there, I just, you know, I kept researching.

I kept studying. And then I started to realize that, you know, this language was something that wasn't just applicable to me.

but other people were also interested in my interpretations of what was going on with their charts so gradually it just started to build and there was a whole host this was 10 years ago now so there's there was a whole host of things that happened i started an astrology dating app in 10 years ago with a friend from college we were sort of ahead of the curve on that that's such a cool idea yeah it was amazing i mean it was also right when tinder and hinge and all of this were coming coming out.

So it was sort of recognizing like, here's an interesting space where people want to be making these connections, but right now it's so superficial.

So just starting to realize and starting to sort of create this more modern vocabulary around astrology has always been something that was really significant and meaningful to me, especially because when I started, it was still very much reserved for like kooky aunts in San Jose.

It was like you were were wearing like big turquoise jewelry and like going through beads to talk about astrology.

And I wanted to find a way to make it relevant, um, because I saw how valuable it was and how instrumental it was for helping people connect the dots and figure out who they were holistically.

And that's what I've really been doing in, in various ways in various formats ever since.

Um, And I am really so passionate about it because I really think it is a beautiful way of building confidence, empowerment, compassion, understanding who you are, understanding what the people in your life are about.

And of course, we can use it for cool things like looking back into the past, like what we're going to do today and seeing what was going on, what were the trends.

And that is really valuable.

You know, it's valuable to see patterns and to recognize where things keep coming up, where those pain points are so that we can ideally learn from them and not do Salem witch trials all over again.

That's the thing because I feel like everybody knows their sun sign and like knows a little bit about astrology.

But when you really start to look into it, it can tell you all these different things.

And like looking into the stars over Salem, I feel like it's going to be so interesting.

interesting yeah yes what you said about like being more like like knowing more about yourself when you start learning more about your zodiac and like what's your chart what's going on that's what because ash like started getting into it and telling me more about things about me and it helped me understand you better it helped me understand myself better and it's like and then help me understand you know like my relationship with you like a gemini why certain things like work and why certain things are iffy and why we do this.

And I don't think people look into it far enough that way.

And it's really helpful when you – it can make you sit there and go like, oh, that's why I'm that way.

That checks. It validates.

Yeah. I mean, something that I've always said is that to me, the question of whether astrology is or isn't real is less significant than recognizing that when we have astrological conversations, we have better conversations.

We have richer conversations.

We open up, we're vulnerable.

We really are like allowing ourselves to be multidimensional, which is a truth.

But it's often, you know, whether or not we are even intending to, we sort of stick to our own stereotypes.

You know, we believe that we we are a certain way and thus we show up as that way.

And with astrology, we are reminded of the fact that no, how you present yourself might not be how you feel and how you communicate might not be what motivates you.

And that each one of these pieces of you has its own merits and has its own strengths and also of course its own weaknesses so that we can see holistically how we sort of move through the world.

Yeah, absolutely. I think the more into it you get, the harder it is to to deny that it's real.

And I think having this conversation today is going to prove that big time.

Yeah. I mean, I will never argue with the efficacy of astrology.

I've seen it changed my life in working with it and understanding how these planets move and seeing their patterns is really wild.

It was wild to be an astrologer in 2020.

And it was wild to be an astrologer in 2018 18 and 2019, looking at the astrology of 2020 and being like, something big is coming.

And I have all of my receipts from back then in sort of being like, you know, let's keep focused on 2020 because something is really interesting going to happen here.

Not, of course, knowing what it was because that was not within my sort of purview to understand, understand but then at that time to see okay when Jupiter and Saturn connect these types of things happen as has been reported over history when Saturn and Pluto connect these types of things happen and it all really lined up so yeah I really you know it's been for this duration of time for a decade of doing astrology I can say that it is there is really something to it you know it really does check out and it definitely checks out in these charts too it's gonna be so interesting to hear some of these

things i'm so excited it's gonna be like ding ding like all of a sudden it's just gonna be like oh okay so that was happening because it's a mass hysteria event right you're no one's been able to explain i mean people go into like the ergot poisoning theory where it's like you know there was a fungus on the wheat that they were making the bread with and maybe Maybe there's something to it.

Lose it. And it's like, but maybe there's more to this.

Like that mass hysteria just seemed too much for like, you know, a fungus to be the reason or for just people having groupthink to be the reason.

It's like maybe there is something that was going on that kind of set everybody off.

Yeah. And I guess, you know, how I want to sort of preface all of this is that when we talk about astrology, we have to remind ourselves that we can't and we're not talking about it on a binary of good or bad.

Astrology is much more complex than just there being a positive and negative, right?

Like there's lots of manifestations of how these different planets in their different zodiac signs can come to fruition.

So just because if, you know, if we find ourselves talking about Gemini, which we're going to, it does not mean our Gemini listeners are all Salem witch trial.

you guys are accusers you know it doesn't mean that they are the ones who are they're the problem yeah right it's not us guys they're not the problem it's it's interesting because we're definitely going to talk about a lot of things that are sort of oddly parallel to where we are today and it doesn't mean that we are currently living in the same conditions as these puritans we're living in, in colonial America, you know?

Obviously, life is very different and things are very different.

But what's cool about astrology is that we can start to see, well, if we take this path instead of another path, this is how these energies could play out, right?

And in the case of these trials and in all of these individuals who were involved in it, they were definitely doing sort of like the less ideal version of their signs.

yeah but that doesn't mean that they had to no you know there was so many outside factors here in this context so that's sort of like my disclaimer as we go into this i mean also i will say no capricorn to be found but that doesn't even mean anything i'm just saying i'm sure you have your own you're like the crusades or something i'm sure we have we'll find the Capricorn era we will find one Alisa's return to Morbid will be the Capricorn can you explain exactly what a birth chart is just in case people don't know what because we're going to be talking about a lot of dates a lot of birthdays just

so people understand like what this is all encompassing so a birth chart is a snapshot of the sky at the exact moment of a birth or an event.

So when we look at a birth chart, we can see where all of the planets were in at that moment.

And each planet in astrology has a role.

It has something that it's doing.

It's signifying something.

And then the way in which it does that thing that it does is in the zodiac sign that it occupies.

So if we have the planet Uranus, which is the planet of revolution and innovation, innovation it's going to express itself differently in Taurus which is an earth sign it's about sort of groundedness and practicality versus in Gemini which is an air sign that has to do with curiosities and innovation and new sort of connections and new ways of thinking so when we look at all of these different planets we're going to get a sense of what was the atmosphere what was going on in in the backdrop of this time.

And especially as we look to see sort of these events unfolding, what's cool and what I observed as I was pulling them is that there's sort of this crescendo that happens throughout this year.

And again, there were many points where it didn't have to go as far as it went.

And to me, that's also really compelling because there were so many points where it was like, you have this big thing coming up and we're gonna talk about what that big thing was is in the year 1692.

And we sort of applied this storyline to that big thing.

And that's how it manifested and unfolded in this case.

I'm so excited to get into this.

I am too. This is just such an interesting way to look at this.

Definitely. So I think what we'll start with is we're going to start with where it all kicked off.

So the Salem witch trials began in January 1692.

They didn't end until May 1693, we'll go through a few dates in between there um but i think what we'll start with is can we start with when they all began in january yeah and i love this chart because i think that this chart really sort of establishes what was happening right and this chart to me this we have this january 15 1692 date and this sort of kicks off um the story right so this is really the birth chart of the Salem witch trials to me.

That's a good way of looking at it.

And there's some really interesting things.

So, well, it was Capricorn season.

Oh no! Boom! Oh, we found it!

We found it right off the bat!

Right off the first thing that actually got you.

That was the universe being like, sit down.

Max, Elena, sit down.

It's Capricorn season.

Damn. So, but when we look at something as As significant as this, we're not going to pay as much attention to the personal planets is what they're called, which are the sun, the moon, Mercury, Venus.

We'll pay a little attention to Mars because it's kind of between those.

But those planets that I just mentioned before, they're important, but they aren't as much of the generational backdrop as the slower moving planets.

So Mars is sort of a between, but definitely Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto.

We're really curious about what's going on with those because those are defining what that zeitgeist is.

That's what the era is.

So some interesting things going on at this time.

We had Jupiter and Taurus.

I'll go through it first. So sort of run down the list. So we actually, when it starts on January 15, 1692, we have Mars retrograde in Gemini.

Jupiter is in Taurus.

Uranus is in Gemini.

That's a really important one.

So flag that. We have Saturn in Sagittarius, also something to flag.

Neptune is in Pisces.

And Pluto is in the final degrees of being in Cancer.

So all of that, they're each one of these planets.

is doing something specific and unique at this time.

But when I pulled this chart, the first thing that stood out to me was Jupiter in Taurus.

That's kind of familiar.

We actually just had Jupiter in Taurus in the sky right now.

Jupiter was in Taurus all of last year in 2023.

Oh, wow, okay, that's terrifying.

You know, but that happens.

That's not that crazy.

That happens every 12 years.

So, okay, there's a cycle around that.

But then as I kept sort of poking around, I also was thinking about and anticipating that throughout this year, we're going to have Jupiter syncing up with Uranus at some point in 1692.

That just, just happened.

And that one isn't that common. Oh, that's interesting.

It just happened where Jupiter and Uranus, that was April of 2024.

Those two synced up again.

And then as I'm continuing to go around here, I see Neptune is in Pisces in this chart.

Neptune is in Pisces right now in the sky.

And that one is really rare.

That one is a really, that's a 144 -year orbit.

So that one does not happen very often.

It's very special to have Neptune in Pisces.

And I would say that Neptune in Pisces is going to be a very, plays a very significant role in all of this, in all of these trials.

um for us right now Neptune went into Pisces in 2011 and is going to be leaving Pisces in 2025 so we're at the final end of Neptune's journey through Pisces.

Okay. I'm going to explain what this means in just a bit as well but just sort of to this is my like flyby of what's going on here um the last thing that is really curious to me is that we had Pluto which is the planet of transformation at the final degrees of cancer.

Why is that so interesting?

Well currently we We have Pluto at the final degrees of Capricorn.

Cancer and Capricorn are opposites.

So it's exactly 180 degrees away from where it was during the Salem Witch Trials.

Wow, that's interesting.

So when I told this chart, I was shooketh.

Yeah, I was shooketh because I knew that this chart was going to be interesting.

Duh. Yeah, of course.

It's an interesting thing.

But not that interesting.

Not that interesting.

Not such a parallel to where things are right now.

Wow. Wow. Which then, of course, is why I needed to have this little preface at the beginning because I don't want to scare people into being like, oh, no, it's coming back.

Witch trials. But there is something to be said for where we are now.

We find ourselves, you know, quite a lot into the future from this time.

And yet somehow I can't imagine that we can relate to this story of mass hysteria And that it is something that we as a society are constantly needing to sort of check ourselves on.

I was just going to say we always have to check ourselves before it tips over.

Yes. And obviously the conditions of being in colonial America are very different than today.

But it is interesting how with similar sort of transits, we find ourselves almost always edging on mass hysteria.

That really is wild.

That is interesting.

That we're just somehow better able to pull it back from the brink this time.

But if it was in a different environment, a different time, a different series.

It could just keep going.

It could keep tipping over.

Yes. And because we have stories like this, stories like this are powerful reminders of what could happen if we don't rein it in.

I don't know if our friends here, all of the names that we're going to start mentioning, the Proctors, the Putnams. Was there a precedent for this at that time that they were citing and referencing and being like, careful, because in the year 1300, there were these scary things.

Like, they were so probably swept up in this moment that they weren't aware of the fact that this was that there was a sort of a cautionary tale to be said for.

Yeah. And it does feel like there's so many, and I'm sure we'll get to it, like there's so many times during these trials where you're like, you could have stopped.

Like you could have stopped.

Why isn't anyone stopping?

Why are we taking it further?

And they just didn't.

They just kept tipping it over.

And it got worse and worse.

Until finally it did explode.

And everybody was like, wait a second.

Maybe we've overdone it here.

Maybe this isn't okay.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

So just to sort of summarize what these planets are doing here and sort of the snapshot of the sky when the trials began.

There was a really interesting, we were sort of walking this line and we were at this edge between storylines, which is kind of where we find ourselves right now.

With Pluto being in the final degrees of cancer, Pluto is the planet of transformation, but it also is the underbelly of things.

It really likes to go deep and expose.

It's definitely very connected to sort of the esoteric and the arcane and witchy things.

I love that. Yeah, love it.

I mean, witch is great.

We love witches. Yeah.

People being falsely accused of witchcraft. Don't love that.

Don't love it, right?

Don't love that. Hate that, actually.

Hate it. And I feel like that's sort of, you know, this chart wanted to understand.

stand. This chart was really deeply trying to get to what is the truth of what is going on here.

And I think that it backfired, obviously, I think.

Where that truth was, was misdirected.

But I can relate to this chart in it being very curious, in it being very sort of interested in what is going on behind the scenes and trying to understand sort of the core narrative.

And I think the attention was really on sort of like what's, you know, there's all of these weird things happening, but what's really at the root of it?

Like, what's the deep narrative here?

year and it was this false accusation you know is what is how they manifested that on a good day this chart could be a cult this chart could be witchy this chart could be interested in journalism you know this chart could be sort of spilling the tea but it wouldn't and exposing things but it would do so with more morals yeah attached to it it reigned in a little that makes And it's true because this exposed so much, these trials.

Like, they exposed the issues with Puritanism.

It exposed the issues with the colony as a whole.

It exposed some, you know, issues with the trial system, how the laws that they were coming...

It exposed big families in Salem and the surrounding, you know, towns that were doing things out of vengefulness and, you know, grabbing land whenever they could.

So it exposed so much. Like, in a horrible way.

it's horrible that we had to go through all that to expose all these things, but it really, it was a huge exposition of people for sure.

Right. And that's really interesting because it's what they thought they were exposing turned out to be the falsity, right?

But what was actually exposed was the injustice and was the sort of the power dynamics.

And it was the, this really really wackadoo court system.

It's so true. Yeah, big time.

Which is wild. So when it first began, it was basically Betty Paris and Abigail Williams who were the first accusers.

And they got our girl Tituba, they got Sarah Osborne, and they got Sarah Good for why they were afflicted.

And the examinations of the accused began on March 1st of 1692.

So I feel like that's a pretty pertinent date Right, because that's when it all kind of kicked off of them doing the physical examinations, starting to bring the spectral stuff in.

That's when things started getting wacky.

So on this day, on March 1st, 1692, it was Pisces season.

The sun was at 11 degrees of Pisces, and it was making a conjunction to Neptune.

I mentioned Neptune a minute ago.

Neptune is the planet of illusion and delusion.

Look at that. And Neptune things, it can be very mystical, very spiritual, very sort of between realms. If we're using Neptune correctly, it's sort of our ability to be able, I mean, it's our imagination.

It's spectral evidence, right?

It's our fantasy world.

That makes sense. It also, interestingly, Neptune has to do with the entertainment industry, which I think is another interesting sort of modern association of Neptune, right?

So it's anything sort of that is smoke and mirrors.

Okay. Ah, that makes sense.

So the sun, which represents sort of how we are navigating a day -to -day, right?

It's sort of this – wherever the sun is, this is what was going on at that moment.

And the backdrop of it was that it was connected to this very elusive, mysterious planet in the sign of Pisces, which is also the last sign of the zodiac, also a water sign, elusive, mysterious.

So sun, Neptune conjunction, we would absolutely say that that is something that has, it's high fantasy.

Wow. Yeah. Look at that.

That's bonkers. Making a square to, an exact square to Saturn at 11 degrees of Sagittarius.

Saturn is the planet of rules, restriction, responsibilities, and it also - It's your house.

Yes, it is. Capricorn is ruled by Saturn.

And Saturn also represents the legal system.

So we have this high fantasy making this really tight aspect to Saturn in Sagittarius.

Sagittarius also has to do with philosophy, religion, the legal system.

So we're seeing a a very religious legal system, and then we have this harsh aspect, a square, connecting this, like, fantastical realm to the legal system and to our...

Like logic and... Yes, and to our sort of rigorous religious beliefs.

Wow. That's crazy how spot -on that is for everything happening.

Right, and I have goosebumps because the party doesn't just end there.

Oh, God, wow. So the sun was at 11 degrees, Saturn was at 11 degrees, and Jupiter was at 11 degrees.

Jupiter also has to do with the amplification of things, making something bigger.

Wow. So there was just the overall message of this chart was like, things are changing around here.

It's going to get crazy.

And guess what it's based on?

Fantasy. Fantasy. Fantasy land.

And we're going to bring it into the legal system, which is supposed to be based on logic, but it's ruled by religion here.

Great. That's exactly it.

Wow. And throughout these charts, we see this sort of, well, at this point in the charts, we don't this actually we end up sort of losing sight of this as the year goes on.

But at this point in the charts, there's this really interesting counterbalance between what is real, what can I rely on, what is factual, and then what is fantasy.

Right. And there's this sort of battle between these two things.

And eventually we end up sort of completely surrendering to the fantasy world.

But as of right now, it's this tension.

It's this sort of like, I want this to be a nice place to live.

Like we want things to be safe here.

We're doing this for the people.

Right. The greater good.

The greater good. Yes.

But I guess I should say that the backdrop of this is that we're sort of losing touch with reality progressively.

Definitely. Yeah. Absolutely.

And it really is. this is when it went from, like, they're afflicted, what could this be?

And then accusations, and this is when it jumped up that notch to the examination period.

So it makes sense that that's that, like, kick up to the next level.

Yes. That's so scary.

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So the next date we have is May 14th, 1692.

This is significant because it's when Sir William Phipps arrived to take his role as the royal governor.

And William Phipps does play a big role in all of this, eventually ending them, or at least effectively ending them.

But this is when he took his role.

So this is when he began ruling over.

So the main thing that I'm noticing in this chart when I pull this up is that we have two really strong conjunctions happening.

Again, a conjunction is when multiple planets are meeting at the same point.

So we have a Sun and Jupiter Jupiter conjunction.

The sun was at 24 degrees of Taurus.

Jupiter was at 27 degrees of Taurus.

Jupiter is the planet of expansion.

The sun represents sort of what we are doing in that day.

So this is sort of exposing that the events that took place on this day are going to be big, right?

It's sort of being like, this is important.

Pay attention to what's happening right now.

Interesting. Sun Jupiter is also generally considered very lucky.

So there is a sort of, if you were to of look at this chart, you would say this, there is a sort of like a, something is fortunate or auspicious in the background of this chart.

Another interesting thing is that Pluto, that planet of transformation that wants to get to the underbelly of things and Mars, which is the planet of action and motivation are connected at this time too.

So simultaneously there's something fortunate and auspicious and that desire to want to uncover gets louder and louder.

So those two Two stories are both very present in this chart.

Wow. It almost seems like they're, like, fighting each other with him being appointed governor.

Maybe that's the fortunate thing because eventually he's going to be the one that says, like, hey, this is a little crazy.

But first he's fighting this whole, like, is this really happening with the witches?

Is it not happening?

Do I bring these people to justice?

Do I not? Do I want to cleanse our community?

Like, do I want to go with this?

Yeah. And there and it's there is this sort of true, deep, innate desire to want to figure out what is the root of what is going on.

You know, and I think that if we give this the benefit of the doubt, it's very earnest. You know, it's very earnest of like there's something something's weird here in this colony.

You know, something's off.

Something's rotten in the state of Salem.

So what's going on here?

here right and i suppose it was pretty fortunate that like you you know that william phipps was appointed governor and not somebody who would have kept this going and maybe taken it even further i'm not saying he did the greatest job but like he did you know i feel like somebody else could have been a lot worse and it makes sense that he didn't do the greatest job because he's got this internal battle yeah and the stars literally might be doing the right thing but then realizes he is not.

Yes. Interesting. Very interesting one.

This one feels like it's going to be like a pretty big moment.

It's May 27, 1692. It's when seven judges are appointed to the court of Oyor and Terminer.

Oyor and Terminer, I've mentioned this in the episodes we've covered this, it means to hear and determine.

And they made this for this.

And it's Bartholomew Gedney, Nathaniel Saltonstall, John Hathorne, William Sargent, Samuel Seawall, While Waitstill Winthrop, which I still think is a really cool name, even though not a great guy.

It's a banger of a name, William Stoughton.

It's a banger of a name.

Undeniably great. There's some cool names here.

But that's when they were all appointed to this court to oversee the trials, which is a big deal.

So, I mean, it's this is definitely the tipping point.

Feels like it would be.

May 27th, 1692. Let's never forget the date.

because at this on this day jupiter goes into gemini so jupiter leaves torus right and we talked about jupiter being sort of whatever is expanded jupiter expands whatever it's next to so we have this expansive energy now in gemini at zero degrees it just went in and astrology heads will know that when a planet goes first enters a new zodiac sign that energy is off the charts oh it's like amplified yeah it's really it's here to party it's here to party and we're here to party and and guess where jupiter is in the sky right now friends is it in gemini yes and it's also like kind of chaos yeah it's

very i love it okay it's breath summer in the worst way so Jupiter is moved into Gemini and then we have Uranus in Gemini and then we have the sun in Gemini and then Chiron the planet of or the asteroid the comet actually of um wounds of our deepest wounds is in Gemini and Mercury is in Gemini so we have what is called a stellium this This is when multiple planets are meeting at the same point in the sky in Gemini.

And at this point, all of that sort of Taurean rationality that Jupiter was holding on to is gone.

We are now in a different realm.

Impulsivity station.

We're in Gemini. And I want to sort of take a moment here because Gemini always gets a lot of pushback.

Our Gemini friends are constantly being ridiculed.

Tell me about it, sister.

Yeah. Tell me about it.

And there's, Geminis are not evil.

No, we're not. There's nothing inherently evil about a Gemini.

Gemini's rule. Gemini's rule.

I think that, you know, what we should know about Gemini is that they're the first air sign.

They're symbolized by the twins.

And people spin that to be like, oh.

Two -faced. Jekyll and Hyde.

maybe i just have a duality that you don't understand because twins are not two -faced exactly that's not what they are yeah it's a totally wrong assertion that's exactly right gemini and twins are are there's they're separate right there is a and what this symbol symbolizes astrologically is that geminis are so curious they're so interested in multiple things that they had to duplicate themselves in order for them to be able to do all of the things and and accomplish all the things that they're passionate about.

So it's really less about, like, one side and then the other side.

And it's more like, if we're all so busy that we can't make time in the day to do everything, then I have to just be two people.

So I can touch upon all the things I'm interested in.

Exactly, exactly. So I think that often our pushback of Gemini is really a pushback of our own duality, right?

Right. And it's more it exposes the person who is shading on Gemini as someone who can't really handle their own complexities.

So justice for Gemini.

Thank you so much for that.

Yes. I had to say that because we're about to really talk shit about.

And moving on now, I'm not saying that Ash started the Salem witch trials, but I'm not saying.

Well, I had to say that because this is now – this is when the turning point happens, right?

This is when the trials go from we're trying to do what's best for our community into full -blown mass hysteria.

Now it's witch hunt.

Yes. And it's gossip because that is one of the – we can't deny that Geminis love the tea.

I love a good gossip.

has a side has a trait that could be taken either way yeah yeah it's true so in this case um what's really interesting to me is that and we we mentioned this at the beginning of the episode this Jupiter Uranus conjunction that is looming and you know it's sort of we it's coming in the year 1692 we're working towards this Jupiter Uranus conjunction the same Jupiter Uranus conjunction we just had in April of this past year.

However, we had it in the sign of Taurus.

Now in 1692, it's happening in Gemini.

Uranus will be in Gemini in 2025, but we will, or 2026, but we will cross that bridge when we get there.

Yes. I'm so scared.

So Jupiter and Uranus are coming together, or they're soon to be coming together.

And the energy around this, Uranus being the planet of innovation, revolution, shocking things, is that we are moving towards a witch hunt revolution with this chart.

And the judges being appointed to this court is really marking a new era for what this place is going to be, what the standard, what the precedent is.

So as we will soon see, laws come back, right?

Laws that had been overturned come back into the fold, and that's because it's a revolution.

They're not seeing this as something that's a regression.

They're seeing this as something that is actually really innovative, which is new rules, new way of doing things.

And they see themselves as being highly progressive for how they're approaching this.

That makes sense that they saw it that way.

It really does. It does, absolutely.

And again, we see this stellium in Gemini is now making an opposition to Saturn and Sagittarius, which we talked about before as sort of our anchor of what the legal system was.

An opposition is 180 degrees apart, so it's sort of being pulled in different directions.

On one hand, we have like, we want as much information as possible, says this Gemini stellium.

Come in with all of your freaky ass spectral evidence.

whatever it is whatever you have bring it we'll listen to it all listen we'll listen we love it like we'll hear and determine yeah and like there's no rules to what it could be because the evidence can come from any place in any way whatsoever meanwhile saturn is now outnumbered with all of this so saturn and sagittarius is like okay well i guess if this is going to be the philosophy if this is going to be the court system so be it right so saturn now has to sort sort of bend to all of these Gemini planets and it's changing the structure of the court because of it.

Wow. That makes so much sense.

It does. It really does when you lay it out like that.

And it's so interesting when you said like it entered at zero degrees and it all just pops off from there.

And it gets more intense as we go.

Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Because you already mentioned on June 8th, 1692.

My birthday. Ash's birthday.

Again, I'm not saying Ash's birthday.

that's when they did bring back an old massachusetts law that was made obsolete by another law against hangings they bring that back to allow execution by hanging now yeah so they were like i know we got rid of that and it's absolutely we miss it though we're gonna pull that back in yeah because why not yeah and for them they're like no this is actually this is this is modernity yeah look at us look at going into the future yes and in this futuristic futuristic utopia.

We recognize that the witches are among us and to protect our community, we got to be executing them left and right.

We're the heroes. And I think, of course, this is such a cautionary tale of how at any point in time, something that then you look back and you're like, that's barbaric and bananas, at the moment felt really innovative and progressive.

Like we're doing what we need to do to keep everyone safe.

Yes. And I don't think that it was even, you know, looking at these charts, I don't think that there was even a consideration of the fact that they were doing something cruel and unusual.

No. Wow. And you can tell they didn't feel that way.

And it's interesting for me because, you know, there's a different version of this story with planets in different signs, right, where we might interpret more of that sort of like they were getting freaky.

Yeah. They wanted to really do some, they wanted to be experimental.

But like this is really like we think we're doing the right thing.

We think we're being progressive.

We want to collect all of the data.

We want all of the information and we're going to be the leaders in the colony.

We're going to show everyone else how to do things.

And we're not going to have this issue again.

It's going to go perfectly fine.

Don't worry about it everyone.

Because it was literally only two days later on June 10th is when they had the first execution of Bridget Bishop.

yeah right away it was like boom yeah they brought in this law and then they immediately put it into motion they were like well two days later we can hang someone yeah like crazy yeah and at this time we have that same sort of that that motion that movement towards jupiter uranus um and that conjunction is is we're actually at the height of it jupiter is at three degrees Uranus is at six degrees.

They're only three degrees away from each other.

Within the week, they're going to be forming that exact conjunction.

That's wild. And again, three days after that, so within that same time period, that's when the church, the Salem church, excommunicated Rebecca Nurse, who was this like pious church -going woman who everyone loved.

We'll get into her because I have like a special place in my heart for Rebecca Nurse.

Justice for Rebecca.

but they excommunicated her in the same week.

So it's like when all that was going on, it was just going up and up and up.

And again, probably thinking they're being, doing what they need to do to keep the church clean.

Setting the new standard. Setting that new standard that like you're going to be excommunicated if you are accused of this.

Right. Which is so scary.

Right. And what we see in that case is that even though this very pious woman and community member who was very beloved was, you know, it was unfathomable to think that this person could be a witch because this data is being presented.

New types of evidence, new types of material that Gem and I like, I want to hear it, I want to hear it, bring it, bring it.

Unvetted. Yes, unvetted.

Which again, you know, and it's haunting for me because here I am an astrologer And it's once again an election year.

And all I want to remind people is that with Jupiter and Gemini right now, make sure that you are really looking at the sources.

Do we know how to tell whether something is propaganda or not?

Absolutely. So important.

And it's the same thing here.

The exact same, except they were just letting it all through.

Yes. That's crazy. And especially, you know, we have these similar sort of parallels happening.

I have no problem with AI.

I'm not one of those people that thinks that AI is going to—maybe I should think it's going to take over more frankly.

I don't know. You never know.

But with all of that, it's right now being deemed as very innovative, right?

It's being deemed as very progressive.

It feels very much the same.

And we are collecting all of the data, right?

And it's like this—we're giving all of the data to these different technologies that we don't really understand right now.

and i'm just you know i just want to put that there yeah i just want to let it sit let's take a look yeah i mean but i don't know yeah because it really is a very i mean it's a very much a parallel yes it makes a lot of sense it really does oh it's i'm like i have chills i know and that was like a short period of time that's like you know in june like bam bam bam they were just they were getting this started and it clearly a lot happens throughout the rest rest of the year but we're going to bump it to september of 1692 because i think that's when things started shifting the other way that's when we

went through all the turmoil that had been clearly building up to a crescendo at this point but in september of 1692 the court of oyur and terminer stopped meeting because that's when people started going wait a second what are we doing here you're not hearing and determining anything you're hearing everything and determining nothing and really only determining one thing yeah it's like we have to change this so it is interesting now that when you when i hear you say that as we're talking about gemini and sag the hearing and determining i mean i feel like that is the spirit of the gemini and sagittarius

access as hearing and determining yeah that's my big three you're like oh my god but less determining more hearing more hearing everything yeah unbetted unfiltered not enough sag energy yes we need more of the sag saturn was in sag but it was being totally outnumbered by all Of the Gemini.

So now it's, but interestingly, at this time, you know, that conjunction, we are sort of moving away from it.

That conjunction between Jupiter and Uranus had happened.

Jupiter is now at 20 degrees of Gemini.

So that stellium, that big, you know, if you, I'll show, I'll show you guys the chart, but like it's in May, on May 27th, when those, when those judges were appointed, it's like a massive amount of planets pooling in one area.

By the time we get to mid -September, it's dissipated.

There's no more stellium.

It's all sort of broken up.

It's a much more, I don't want to say, there's nothing abnormal about a stellium, but it's just a much more well -balanced chart.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And interestingly, Saturn has more agency and control again now in the chart because it's not being outnumbered by all of these, you know, heavy duty Gemini placements that are sort of pulling at it from the other direction.

So now the loudest aspect is actually the aspect between Uranus and Saturn.

Uranus is at nine degrees, it's going retrograde.

Saturn is at six degrees Sagittarius.

So we have a Uranus, Saturn opposition.

Saturn has more power.

Saturn has more strength to be like, what's going on here?

Wait a second, hey, you need to stop hearing everything.

Yes, more determinants.

More determining with facts.

Also, on this day, the moon was in Sagittarius as well.

So the moon and Saturn were working together to be like, cut it.

That is really interesting.

Oh, my God, the moon.

We love the moon. It was like this moon thing.

Yeah, the moon comes through.

Wow. So, yes, I mean, it's definitely – things are very – in a short amount of time, the sky is really different.

Wow. And it makes – and it just – when you look at the events, it just makes so much sense.

It makes perfect sense.

Building, building, building.

And then it just kind of like slowly dissipates.

Right. Because it does feel like it suddenly slowly dissipates.

That's exactly what happened.

I mean, if you were to show me these charts with no sort of events associated, I would be like, whoa.

What happened there?

What were we working up towards?

Yeah. And then I would see the drop off.

It slowly turned around.

And you're like, oh, everything's fine now.

You're like, okay. But what was going on there?

What's not over there?

The little one in the middle.

Is everyone all right over here?

Oh, it's the one with Giles.

We made it out of that.

And then the next thing, and this kind of goes back to our Governor Phipps.

her friend governor phipps over there who apparently was there was fortune in the sky when he became governor on october 29th 1692 that's when he after the court stopped convening um he ordered a stop to any more arrests in the trial for witchcraft he didn't want anyone else arrested for it and he later would in in the following year he later pardoned everybody remaining in jail so he did do his part to make sure everybody was let out yeah just about six Six months after he stopped.

But it began October 29th, 1692 is when he stopped the arrests.

So no more witchcraft arrests were going to happen.

It's interesting. You know, obviously we know that this date is very close to Halloween.

For me, you know, just spiritually, I think that that's really interesting because that marks a, it's a threshold.

You know, Halloween, October 31st is the halfway point between the autumn equinox and the winter solstice.

And it's, you know, known to be the sort of transitional time.

So I just think that it's interesting that that timing is sort of like so close to Halloween that we say, like, this is enough.

This is spooky in the worst way.

We're not going to make this spooky anymore.

more. The thing that stands out to me as we get into these, you know, the fall of the year, the fall of 1692, is that Pluto, the planet of transformation, goes into Leo.

So it's not in those late degrees of Cancer anymore.

It shifts into a new zodiac sign.

And again, as we talked about with Jupiter going into Gemini, when a planet goes into a new sign, It's really notable.

It's really big. It's really significant.

Now, what's wild is that currently Pluto is in the late degrees of Capricorn and is sort of teetering on Pluto going into Aquarius.

These are the exact opposite sister signs of what was going on here.

So Cancer is the opposite of Capricorn.

Leo is the opposite of Aquarius.

Pluto was going through the last degrees of Cancer into the early degrees of Leo during the Salem Witch Trials.

It's currently in the last degrees of Capricorn going into Aquarius.

So we have this mirror image of that same turning point energy, of that same sort of threshold.

Who knew this was going to be so topical for right now?

I certainly didn't.

Who could have known?

Wild. Wow. So what that says to me and what we've been talking about as it relates to current events in astrology is being in a transitional time.

Well, currently. as we are in the late degrees of Capricorn for Pluto, we're sort of seeing like, wow, something needs to give, right?

Like we are reaching sort of a breaking point in our culture.

Yeah. And it's like hard to exactly pinpoint what it is, but we know that it's just gotten very loud and very exhausting.

It really has. Yes.

And we're looking for something new.

We're looking for change.

And that's exactly what was happening at that time.

Pluto was entering Leo.

It was saying this has to be a new era.

There has to be something new that we are exploring societally and culturally.

So it doesn't surprise me that at the same time that Pluto is moving into this new zodiac sign, which by the way, it spends 20 years in a zodiac sign.

So it really drives a point home before leaving and entering something new is that we're saying like actually maybe this isn't the vibe yeah turns out you know what maybe we were like super duper wrong here and as you'll see a lot of the people in this are just like oh we messed up that was not good yeah so it's it's interesting to see that um you know and and pluto also was conjunct the a South node of karma and past life at this moment.

The nodes were in Leo and in Aquarius.

So there is this sort of reckoning that starts to happen, it feels like, by the fall where we start to kind of have a different perspective on what we want our future to look like.

And maybe it's we are looking at what we had thought was going to be this utopia where we're getting rid of all all the witches.

And it's, and then we realized like, actually, half of our community is in jail.

And some of the judges, you know, own wives and children and sisters and mothers are being accused suddenly.

And they're going, wait a second, maybe not.

I mean, they had a four -year -old in jail at one point.

They had a four -year -old in jail with her mom and she was accused of witchcraft by Ann Putnam, by the way.

Ann Putnam's the worst. We hate her.

She accused a four -year -old and they had a four -year -old sitting in jail for like a year.

And it's like somebody had to look at this and be like, wait a second.

Is this the community?

We really want to have a community where we're throwing four -year -olds in the old Salem jail?

This isn't what we were going for, exactly.

I don't know if this is the utopia we were thinking it was going to be.

Right, yeah, exactly.

So it totally makes sense.

Speaking of Ann Putnam.

This was just an interesting one to me because I am so focused on how much I hate Ann Putnam.

I love that you hate Ann Putnam so much. I have such a grudge against Ann Putnam.

Putnam. So on August 25th, 1706, so many years after this, or a few years at least, Ann Putnam finally says, well, maybe I made all that shit up.

Oops, sorry. And she did this because she wanted to get into a church, and the church was not going to let her unless she admitted all her sins.

That was a pretty big sin.

And I thought this was an interesting one.

I'm curious, do you know if, like, what, did the church at that point say that they recognized that this was all a disaster?

I think it was part of the reckoning of everybody saying that we realized that the intentions might have been pure at some point or what they think are pure.

Exactly. Exactly. I think they also recognized that maybe they had a bunch of bored little girls on their their hands and that these little girls took it too far and didn't know how to stop it.

So I think they were giving her the opportunity to say, we'll pardon you for your sins, but you need to have a come to Jesus moment and tell us that what you did was wrong and that you knew it was wrong.

And she obliged. And she did.

She said she did it.

She said she made it up and she was sorry for it.

But it was all too late.

I was like, oh. Yeah.

I mean, it's interesting.

So at this time, you know, a considerable amount of time later, over 10 years later, Saturn is now where Jupiter and Uranus were back then.

Wow. So it's, you know, Saturn has that perspective.

It's now gone through half of the zodiac sign.

And Saturn is, you know, it has to do with discipline, right, and our responsibilities and maturation.

maturation so it's almost like at that time we all and you know the chart of this moment was one where we had a different perspective on that gemini craziness chaos the chaos of gemini yes that makes sense it does yeah because it's like she had i mean i'll i'll give one little inch here and say like this is huge she had to have a little bit of a maturation here to like at least know i still think it was selfish and i think she it was it was mature to know that she wasn't going to get into this church if she didn't do what they asked her to do but it makes sense that it has to do with saturn yeah

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And speaking of my enemy, Ann Putnam, we should take a look at at least a couple of the main accusers here, what their charts are, because I'm very curious about that.

Yeah. We have Anne Putnam is October 18th, 1679.

And she was born in Danvers, Massachusetts.

And she was really like the ringleader of all of this.

Yeah. She really kept it going.

She was the HBIC. Yeah.

So, so Anne is a Libra, you know, something that I want to, something I want to call out because it's you know it really is very loud in these charts is 25 degrees there's a lot of planets at 25 degrees which is just you know it's neither here nor there but it's just an interesting pattern to see Anne was you know a Libra 25 degrees Libra she was actually born on a full moon and not just a full moon it was a lunar eclipse so that's really compelling to me because when we have someone born on an eclipse that, we know eclipses.

They're really intense.

They're loony. They're high energy, right?

We see that even when we experience, you know, when an eclipse crosses the United States and suddenly it's like the day stops, everyone's figuring out their eclipse plans, where are you going to be?

You know, they are arresting.

They capture our attention.

tension. Energetically, astrologically, this is also the case.

When you're born on an eclipse, you have a sense of drama baked into your chart.

We were just talking about this the other day.

Yeah. And there's a sort of extremism to you.

People might see your life and be like, why is everything always so like feast or famine for you?

Like, why is it like, why are the stakes always so high when you're born on an eclipse?

And that's the case of Anne.

Wow. She was born on an eclipse.

Now she was also 12 years old when this started.

And she was she was born with Jupiter in Taurus.

So she was going through her Jupiter return at that time.

Wow. Which happens to all of us when we're 12 years old, because Jupiter has a 12 year orbit.

it so she had this she was born on an eclipse she was going through her jupiter return a very lucky time um and believe it or not i mean the way that i would interpret this is that she was really i mean i guess this isn't doesn't seem that surprising when i when i say it out loud that she thought that she was doing something really cool you know sure she thought that she was really she thought that she was really participating in her community she certainly was i mean she was making things happen she was making things happen i think literally yeah she had an immense amount of power for a 12 year

old girl and i do think there might be i know that this is not we're not ann stans here so i mean who would like ann right she's clearly the villain right But I do think it's interesting how in this Puritanical culture where women have no power, that these young girls had so much power.

And they took it and ran with it.

Yes. And I also wonder if this is a byproduct of a really oppressive culture, you know?

I definitely think that's a huge part of it.

I think that for sure, because especially kids.

Kids were not, in this culture, in Puritan, you know, times, in Puritan culture, it was you didn't play, you didn't.

read you didn't enjoy things you weren't you were not to be a kid it wasn't like a kid like the seen and not heard it was like let me not see you let me not hear you like you will you you help out your family you do your studying and that's it yeah and you shut up like you are not outside playing with things you're not giggling with your friends you are you are seen as not even a little adult like a little you know cult member you're not really seen as yeah you're not seen as anything thing you're one of the many that needs to be doing this thing to get to the goal of whatever their goal was you

know right and so I think seeing that it's kids who started this was very telling because it's like they weren't doing anything else what else were they doing they had somewhere to apply their imagination and a fantastical imagination I mean that's where the spectral evidence comes in some of the things they come up with I mean it's like like we said you know anne was the one who accused uh you know a little dorothy also like dorcas in the in the trial transcripts the four -year -old she said that like she came she was like biting her in her sleep like she flew in her window was biting her and it's

like that is some like fantastical fantastical shit and it's kid shit and i think they were just trying to be kids but like they say in the craft they took it to a dark place well when you're a kid you don't realize the serious repercussions that everything you're doing is going to have and i think when they started seeing the repercussions it was some of the i think it was just either keep going or admit that you bullshitted everybody and now you're the ones we can't do that yeah but it's also i mean it's the adults who are calling the shots i mean if these kids are saying are are recognizing

that they have basically unchecked power now and that they have the freedom to be be able to participate in these spaces and they're being taken seriously they're validated they're having the it's like they're one -upping each other and like how like wild these images and these imaginations are and then the adults are like very good tell us more yeah keep going it's like well I saw Rebecca Nurse in a rocking chair and it's like how far can you push it So as much as I recognize that it's not good to accuse an entire community of witchcraft and kill them, I do think that it's obviously the adults

who were responsible and the kids were just testing boundaries and also, I mean, pretty iconic for becoming so famous as little Puritan kids.

Yeah, that's how they were seeing it.

Like where the queens of the village.

Yes. Yeah, and when we were talking about it earlier, the adults in the situation are really having the kids do their dirty work because they're after executing these people so they can take their land, so they can get rid of a tax that they owe somebody, you know?

That's the thing. And the Putnams especially are huge.

They were the huge accusers.

And especially like Ann Putnam Sr., especially was she would direct Ann Putnam Jr. to do her dirty work.

That family was gaining a lot by making their kid do the dirty work for them.

So you do have to give her a little bit of sympathy in that regard of like, you were brought into this, like you were just kind of raised to do this, which is sad.

yeah doing your parents bidding yeah like she's still an asshole absolutely but are we still gonna wear our fucking putnam sweatshirts yeah but like she was made to be an asshole you know like a lot of the cases we see where it's like yeah i feel you know i feel bad for the kid but this kid happened to get a lot of people killed yeah you know there is something i think if we think about this karmically too um being born on a lunar eclipse means that the nodes of destiny and fate are right next to your sun and moon, which are some of the most sort of prominent placements in our charts.

We know our sun, moon, and rising signs.

So her sun and moon are right directly connected to, her sun is connected to the north node.

Her moon and Aries is connected to the south node.

These are karmic destiny points.

And in addition to those placements being there, she also has Chiron, the wounded healer there.

I mean, one could look at this and be like, yeah, it was horrible what happened to her, that she then had to live with the guilt of having killed all of these innocent people, but in doing so exposed that, you know, this was not the utopia that they were trying to create.

And really like, I mean, massive changes in the court system coming out of the Salem witch trial.

So it obviously is a tragedy to lose so many people to this, but it also, perhaps there was an inevitability to it.

If this was the system, something bad was going to happen, right?

And it was someone like Anne who sort of brought it to that tipping point to expose the injustices.

So it was like a byproduct.

A byproduct. Very much so.

Well, I think another one we could talk about, so Betty Parris and Abigail Williams are the other two I think we'll touch upon because they were the initial accusers.

Yeah, they were the big, I think they were called the Salem Three.

Yeah, they were definitely.

So Betty Paris was November 28th, 1682.

And she was born in Boston, Massachusetts.

But we don't claim her.

We do not. Understandable.

Well, she was born during a new moon.

So we have another very strong lunar energy here in this chart.

She was also nine years old, right?

When this really little.

Nine years old just so young in life, but also astrologically, that what was happening in her chart at that time was like not that different from what was happening from when she was born.

You know, like nine years is, you don't have that many transits having taken place.

However, the transit you do have at exactly nine is you have your nodal opposition.

So again, talking about the nodes of fate, she was born with her north node in Leo, her south node in Aquarius.

At that time, it was was the opposite so the south node was in leo and the north node was in aquarius so at that moment there was this turning point of like what is my destiny going to be believe it or not the first time we encounter our destiny is when we're nine years old according to the nodes so crazy yeah wow and then i it seems like she was then plucked away from this from the whole she was like sent to live with family yeah like you don't want you don't want to see what's gonna happen you don't need to hang out with and anymore yeah yeah so it's interesting that she sort of made Made her mark this little

Sag, New Moon Sag, Sun and Moon and Sagittarius, going through her nodal opposition, did this thing, and then was sort of removed from the scene.

Yeah. So she didn't actually have to be involved in the trials beyond that time.

That makes sense. That is interesting.

Because her dad was a big player in the town.

Right. Samuel Parrish, I believe it is.

He was a reverend. So he was, I think they were like, you know what?

Maybe we shouldn't muddy our feet with this.

Yeah, we want him to keep his job, so you did your job.

Let's get out of here.

Thanks, Betty. And then Abigail is someone that we have another stellium with.

So Abigail was born with Venus in Cancer, Saturn in Cancer, Pluto in Cancer, the Sun in Cancer, and Mercury in Cancer.

It's an emotional girly.

It's an emotional girly, yes.

And as we've talked about, when we have a stellium, a concentration of energy, it just is intense.

You know, it just, it's, it's sort of everything is pooling in these places.

So with all of this in cancer, it's like, you know, cancer is associated with the mother.

Cancer is associated with our home, with our family, with our values.

So it does not surprise me that it was the sort of like, I'm doing this for the fam.

I'm doing this in our shared value system, in our shared value system.

And I would not be surprised if this was was also coming from, you know, if this was being supported by her family.

Oh, yeah. Which I'm sure it was.

And sort of encouraged by her family.

That makes a lot of sense.

That definitely does.

Damn. It makes me feel kind of bad for them.

Only a little bit. I do.

I would say that we can feel bad.

I mean, it's interesting because there's like a whole other take on this where it's like, these were the witches, these little girls.

Because what is a witch?

I mean, it's usually women who are trying to figure out where their power is.

and to reclaim their power.

And these girls certainly figured out how to have a lot of fucking power in their community.

Yeah, definitely. At the most. The most power.

So, I mean, I think that having a fresh set of eyes on these little ladies is not the worst thing, but then definitely no remorse for the boys, for the orchestrators who are on the trial.

Oh, no way. The full -blown adults.

They have full frontal lobe.

They know what they're doing.

You're a grown -ass announcer.

Grown -ass men. No excuse for you.

No excuses. What are you doing?

And actually, that's where we'll go next.

Speaking of. Is to these idiots.

Yeah. The first one I could think of was John Hathorne.

Big player. This guy's so bad that like his ancestor, Nathaniel Hawthorne, added a W to his name to not be associated with him.

Wow. That's how you know it's bad.

That's the lore. So that's how bad he is.

He was one of the most active judges during the trials.

He was known to be super aggressive.

progressive. He forced confessions in ways that would be very unseemly, even by those standards.

He was super, super religious.

And so he took this whole thing even more seriously than a lot of the other ones did.

He was the one to condemn Reverend George Burroughs to death, which is very interesting that a very religious man would condemn a reverend to death.

He also never showed remorse.

even after the trials were done never apologized never said that he was wrong in anything he did he ended up dying and at the age of 76 he's buried in that old burying point cemetery on charter street in salem so that's an interesting grave to visit yeah it's chilling it's a very chilling grave but yeah he's one of the worst for sure well i i would it surprise anyone to find out that he is a leo oh there it is so john uh was born on august 5th making him a leo son he also has a moon in leo so he was born on a new moon and again you know we're seeing definitely enough of these charts that have an interesting

lunar signature to know that these individuals were born during these prominent lunar phases a lot of them were and you know it's not being born on an eclipse which is the you know the most magnified version of it but being born on a new moon is also you know has there's a significant sort of energy associated with that um and in the sign of Leo you know if this is done poorly we have a very egoic gentleman on our hands moon in Leo sun in Leo Mars in Leo and at the time this would again have been conjunct at the the same point as the south node in Leo, which is one of those destiny points.

And it's, you know, it's sort of the dark side of destiny, right?

It's the destiny to be remembered as an egoic monster in the case of John.

Well, that worked. Yeah.

That's John. And also to feel the sense of Leo can be very stubborn, you know, very resolute.

It's a fixed sign. So it believes what it believes And it believes that it's right.

That's why you never apologize.

Never apologize. And it doesn't surprise me that this, you know, there was this sort of vengeance for the reverend, you know, and this sort of like, I'm not afraid to take down a religious figure because I know best. To show my point that I'm right.

Yes. And to be bigger and higher than, you know, because that is it's its own sort of egoic expression is to be like, see, you all thought that this was a pious individual.

but i as a judge am above this alleged pious individual and i say they're a witch and i know better yeah yeah that's fascinating that is fascinating oh don't get wrapped up with the worst but but the next one we have is uh a lot of people know this name too cotton mather so how could you not know the name how could you not remember this and it's what you'll remember remember cotton yeah you got it we remember cotton weary too from the stream always uh but he was a puritan minister he studied he actually studied another outbreak of hysteria it was the goodwin family in boston massachusetts and he

wrote about it he loved to write about this stuff and he blamed it on the devil and he mentioned in these writings that salem was the devil's playground is what he believed which is awesome yeah i mean that sounds so metal so metal like If I was in Salem at that time, I'd be like, hell yes.

And also like leave us alone.

We're the devil's playground.

Don't mess with us.

But a lot of people think that was part of the seed that was planted to at least start some rumblings in Salem with hysteria.

But in the letter that he wrote to the justices, he was one of those people who said spectral evidence is bullshit.

You shouldn't use it.

You shouldn't use it in these trials.

I don't think it should be used as like real evidence.

But in that same letter, he also urged them to continue trying to suss out witches in Salem.

So he was saying, don't use spectral evidence, but, like, you're doing the Lord's work.

Keep going. Let's keep going.

And he was also the one who said that, bringing back to Reverend George Burroughs, that poor guy.

He was the one who said that no witch would be able to say the Lord's Prayer perfectly.

They were going to stumble on it.

They would forget it.

They wouldn't be able to say the whole thing.

That's the tell. That's the tell.

You'll be if they can do that, they are not a witch and you should not condemn them.

Well, Reverend George Burroughs recited that Lord's Prayer perfectly without stumbling, without muttering anything on the gallows.

Cod Mather was there and he said, I guess in this case, it's whatever.

He's a reverend. You know, we're already here.

So let's just like go through it.

And it's like, what the fuck?

Like what a contradiction.

And he actually later claimed that Reverend George Burroughs was the king of all witches.

He used that phrase and basically said later, you know what?

Spectral evidence, it was actually fine.

It was fine that they used it.

The whole thing was justified to some degree.

We're all fine. He was basically a whiny little bitch and he stood for nothing.

Like, that man stood for nothing.

He just stood for spectral evidence.

And he would blow over here with it.

Like, he was the worst. Well, a few things that are really interesting.

So we have another stellium here in his chart.

He has an Aquarius stellium.

So Aquarius is the opposite sign of Leo.

So again, we're still on those nodes, which were going on at this time in the signs of Leo and Aquarius.

So he's being really activated by them.

He has Chiron in Aquarius, Uranus in Aquarius, Mars in Aquarius, the Sun in Aquarius and Mercury in Aquarius.

So once again, we see someone who has a lot of a lot.

It's a lot of a lot.

And I would say most compelling to me is that he was going through his Saturn return during this time.

Interesting. So he was pretty young.

He was young. He was.

It does. And the Saturn return is when we go through it in our late 20s and early 30s.

I'm so scared. Buckle up, baby.

I know. Careful of that spectral evidence.

I know. And it's when we become our own person.

And it's often a very challenging and complicated time.

And what I, you know, I'm probably jumping ahead.

head, spoiler alert, he was the son of Increase Mathers.

Coolest name. Coolest name.

But I think that what's really interesting about this is that we have, and we'll talk about Increase's role within this as well, we have Cotton, the son, trying to figure out what he stands for and what What his place is and what his role in this greater sort of ecosystem is.

So it doesn't surprise me that as he's going through his Saturn return, he's like, well, a little bit of this, but also that, you know, this makes sense.

Whatever works. And my, and now I'm going to get into sort of my intuitive read on it for a moment.

Looking at the chart is that I think that he got over his head in what was happening.

Oh, for sure. And because he was, he comes into this kind of as an academic.

Absolutely. And but then he's swept up in this town.

I mean, it would be an interesting biopic, certainly.

He's swept up in this town and then it's like it's all happening.

You know, like they're dying.

These people on are being hung, you know, like we have people being tortured.

It's like what a scene.

And he's trying to figure out, is this what it's about?

Like, is this is this what we should be doing?

it? Is this why we did this?

And what are the limits and what are the boundaries?

And I think that as people are dying, it's like, well, I have to justify this.

You know, I have to make sense of this tragedy.

So yeah, I mean, he's the king of witches.

That's why he can say the Lord's prayer so easily is because the devil is speaking right through him and the devil is, you know, a trickster.

So of course, in this case, this is an exception to the rule.

But I think that this is the chart of someone who is really trying to figure out, you know, who he is and what his place is in society and how he can be the most useful and how to sort of bring these pieces together.

Another thing that's interesting is that he was born during the Jupiter -Saturn conjunction.

That's a 20 -year cycle that happens every 20 years.

So it's an important, it's a meaning.

It's one of the signatures that happened during 2020, the Jupiter -Saturn conjunction.

So Jupiter makes things bigger.

Saturn makes things disciplined.

So he's trying to figure out, you know, how am I going to be the, this sort of voice, you know, how am I going to be the smartest one in the room, I think is Cotton's story.

He's got that vibe for sure.

Yeah, he does. How can I be this?

And it's also very Aquarius, you know, like if you've ever met an Aquarius, you know that they also love to be right.

They love to be intelligent.

So it has that sort of like Yeah I know what I'm talking about And he's like oh I can explain this I can explain this You all think you know But I can explain this Listen to me Listen to Cotton 100 % Cotton 100 % That almost went over my head I was so close So the next one we have This isn't like a huge huge he's a big player because he's one of the seven judges and i think what is of note about bartholomew gedney is one his name yeah definitely that and he's got um he's got an interesting grave in the cemetery as well um and he was he was one of the shitty judges and he also was one of the ones who fiercely

advocated to use spectral evidence which i always think means that you are one of the worst because i'm like if you are allowing children to say that somebody flew in and bit their knees in the middle of the knife and like something's wrong with you.

You're a little kooky.

And he also condemned his own friends.

Like he would turn his back on people.

Like his friends would be like, you know, me, Bart.

And he'd be like, I guess I don't.

And he'd be like, I guess I didn't.

I guess I didn't know.

And it's like, whoa, he has no loyalty.

Would you be surprised to find out?

Well, let me ask you.

I hear a lot of hearing, during which we know now is the gemini stellium and bardy was a gemini 1640 see him turning on his friends doesn't give us a good a good rep but it doesn't you know i think it makes sense for as we are sort of creating the archetype for the gemini stellium energy of this time period right it's like give me the most and in his case he was like you're my friend whatever like come on in to the freaky trial world and like let's spill what's the tea like what do you have oh people are flying and inviting interesting interesting I love that love that yeah I mean honestly it

was like the wackier the better and I think that that's why he was into spectral evidence is because he liked the sort of the entertainment of it that makes sense for Bart I feel that for Bart I love entertainment so That's why I get it.

Bert was just here for the lulz.

He was just like, same.

This is interesting.

Like, why not? Me too, Bert.

Go on. Yeah, he's like, please tell me more.

Please tell me then what happened.

It would be interesting to read his entries in this giant Bible because it's probably like, and then?

Yes. He said that this happened.

But wait, let me tell you more.

Yeah. Wait. You'll never believe this one.

I think that sort of like, you know, one of the overarching lessons around this was that actually it turns out morality is a good thing.

It certainly is. When you know someone's character, that actually should be considered when you are bringing them in to an accusation.

That's why we have character witnesses.

Right. It's important to understand who someone is.

But in this trial, all of that was out the window because it was really just the hearsay.

Yeah. People were accusing their own spouses.

Right. And that was being regarded.

It was being taken into more regard than someone's character.

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Well, one of the worst ones, I would say, is definitely the Corwin family.

Yeah, they popped off.

A lot of people know the witch house in Salem.

That's, you know, the Jonathan Corwin house.

house um he actually there was so many quote -unquote witches being brought in to be examined during this time because they were now they're picking everybody we hear about the you know the ones who died at the gallows but there's so many who died in jail there's so many who were put in jail and somehow got out of it but there's a lot of victims here so many people were being accused that he opened up you know he's so friendly and loving and cozy accommodating opened up his home home and said, oh, I can conduct examinations in here since I know we're so busy.

Like I'm here to help.

And there's some like crazy stories about him in that house.

And he would also undertake the examinations himself, which is a whole different vibe.

Very pervy energy. Very pervy energy.

Like I don't like it.

The energy in that house is messed up.

It's gnarly. Yeah. It's dark energy.

And a lot of his family was embroiled in the whole accusing process.

A lot of his children were quote -unquote afflicted at times, so that was a whole thing.

And he never apologized for his role in the trials either.

He was one of the ones that stood by and said, nope, it was right.

What's interesting is that as we're talking about this, what I'm sort of noting is that as you're mentioning these different judges who never apologized, it's a lot of fixed signs.

So we met the Leo. Yeah, we met the Aquarius.

And here we have the Scorpio.

So we have another stellium here with Jonathan Corwin.

This one is in Scorpio.

So we have Uranus in Scorpio.

We have the North Node in Scorpio, Mercury in Scorpio, the Sun in Scorpio, and Neptune in Scorpio.

So again, a stellium is a lot.

Now, we haven't talked about Scorpio a lot, which I think it would be surprising for a lot of people because Scorpio is the zodiac sign that is so witchy and so sort of associated with the occult and sort of underworld things.

It's signified through Pluto, which we have talked about, but Scorpio has been sort of low -key in the background throughout most of these charts, which is interesting, and it does show me that, again, this whole trial was more of the Gemini information, information like I want to collect the knowledge than it was the Scorpio like, oh, like, let me get into the sort of the mysteries of it.

Yeah. But in the case of Jonathan Corwin's chart, he was about that.

He wanted to get up in there.

And I don't want to, I'm not typecasting all Scorpios as being perverts, but it is a little pervy.

It is associated with like the genitals and like the, you know, the private parts and sex and all of that.

So when you put it in this scenario.

So in the context of this, yeah, this is probably someone who was being a little gross, you know, a little sexually deviant around this and using this as an opportunity to like, you know, Examine.

Make that easier. Yeah.

Gross. Which I definitely think was a thing.

Absolutely. Oh, gross, Jonathan.

Well, moving on from him.

Well, and we're staying in the family.

Oh, goody. which I think is one of the worst in the whole thing George Corwin he was he has an interesting birthday too his birthday is February 26 1666 scary right so he has the triple six in there he's talking about everybody else being Titanic I'm like come on check your birth year my friend check your birth he was compensating so he was only 25 years old which blows my mind at this this point because I'm like you're a baby yeah like you're a baby shut up go figure out your life not even at the Saturn return like what are you doing like ruining everyone's life he was the sheriff during the witch

trials he was also the nephew of Jonathan Corwin so that family blood runs deep he was known very much he was very aggressive he confiscated a lot of shit from people when he would arrest them like that was his favorite thing to do was just steal all your shit when he arrested you it was like a treasure hunt for him yeah and it was like there was certain like this was part of the time period too, where like, you know, they would confiscate things from you when they arrested you to pay for your jail sentence, essentially in your trial.

They could confiscate your land, all that, but he would do it willy nilly.

Like he was known to just steal all everybody's stuff.

He was there for a lot of the executions.

Bridget, he was there when Bridget Bishop, the first one, the first victim was hanged and she was forced to climb a ladder when she was hanged.

It was just like a different thing.

He was the one who kicked the ladder out from underneath her.

Um, he then left her body in a rock crevice after that, just threw her in a rock crevice and just as an example, just as an example.

Um, what's also interested is he left her body in that rock crevice at the site.

And then he reported, he had to write out a report for this and he crossed out the words buried in place when he did this, which is like yeah that's because like he literally intentionally was like i'm gonna leave out what i actually did i'm just gonna cross it out and i was like that is so shady yeah very shady yeah and he is infamous for being the one that tortured giles cory with um weight until he was crushed to death at one point we covered this when we talked about the witch trials giles cory was i mean it was like days two days of him being pressed to death so at one point the weight was so severe

that his tongue protruded out of his mouth just on weight alone right and it was george carwin who grabbed a walking stick from somebody who was watching this whole thing because remember people would just watch this with like popcorn and shit be pressed to death for this old man be pressed up for two days grab someone's walking stick and poked his tongue back in his mouth with it which to me is like ruthless as fuck yeah that's like serial killer vibes yeah totally but giles cory as we we know, did not enter a plea.

He said, fuck y 'all.

And he didn't do it.

And instead, he cursed George Corwin and all of Salem.

Which worked. And he cursed so that we have seen.

So George Corwin died of a heart attack at age 30, five years after this.

And since 1692, Salem sheriffs have all died of heart conditions at very early ages or suffered from heart conditions at very early ages.

And it It only stopped after they moved the sheriff's department from the old jail.

Right, because before it was overlooking the...

Yeah, it was like overlooking some...

I believe, I'm not positive about that, but it was...

I just know that it was a...

Cahill is one of the sources that is a really...

His book is really good about this.

He mentioned he was one of the sheriffs.

He mentioned that he suffered from heart issues when he was sheriff.

And he's like, it is a curse.

Like, no one can...

It's for real, for real.

And George Corwin had taken so much stuff from people when he was arresting them that Aileen was actually placed on his body when he died, that it was not released back to his family to be buried until his family paid for his shit that he had taken.

They said, back at you.

So he got his in the end for sure.

But he's one of the worst. So what's he all about?

So, you know, it's interesting because he, well, is a Pisces.

And I think that that would really surprise people because usually Pisces are considered to be, you know, sort of like harmless, mystic, sensitive, emotional, intense people.

But in this case, I mean, this is why you have sort of, you know, you can't you really shouldn't be stereotyping the science because there's so much dimensionality to them.

He was born with the sun conjunct Jupiter in his chart.

And we've talked about Jupiter making anything bigger and more expansive and sort of like larger than life.

So the sun and Jupiter were in Pisces when he was born.

And as we'll remember, during the Salem Witch Trials, Neptune was in Pisces.

So it was almost like he was operating in this fantasy land himself.

Like he sort of went with the, he went with this mass hysteria and like ran with it as part of his identity.

He was playing a role within this whole elaborate tragedy as someone, as, yes, exactly, as sort Sort of like the boss as the one who was ruthless, as the one who had no patience for witches, you know, like he would do, he hated witches and would do anything to make sure that they were never coming back again.

And it was also, you know, it's interesting that he was pre -Saturn return.

Right. To me, that also is very compelling.

Yeah. It really shows that he was also trying to prove his manhood, you know, and there was this heavy compensating for being so young and having so much power.

And it almost feels like it's a higher octave of how the girls were behaving at that time, you know?

It's like when you're that young and you have so much power and you're responsible for such brutality, it's like you have to kind of go all in.

You obviously don't have to and you shouldn't.

Please don't go all in.

But these kind of people commit when they're going to do it.

Yes, he committed to that role that he was playing.

And it was that he was being sort of egged on by the hysteria so much so that he thought he could get away with it, right?

He thought he could get away with that kind of force.

He thought he could get away with stealing all of these possessions.

And obviously so young that didn't realize, like actually, no, when you die young from this heart condition after this curse because you were so bad that you have a curse on you now that you're not even going to be regarded.

There's going to be a lean on your body because people are going to recognize that you were a shithead.

They're going to be like, we're not even giving your body to your family.

because it was actually completely out of line what you did.

So it's, I mean, this is why, you know, it's when you have such young people who are responsible for acting out in these ways, it's like you're going to see oftentimes the most fierce and evil ones are the ones who are the youngest out, you know, and also frontal lobe, right?

That's a huge part of it.

That's a huge role too.

Yes, definitely. That is interesting.

Another one that I'm interested, this is like a, I'm just interested in this one because he's a little bit of an outlier, Samuel Seawall.

So he was a judge. He was one of the ones that later publicly apologized.

He even called for a day of fasting and penance for reparation of what happened, and he himself observed that day privately for the rest of his life.

Like he was very much a, I thought I was doing what was right.

I did not do what was right.

I'm so sorry. And it was literally like, he was like, I know that that wasn't right.

I thought it was right at the time.

Right. Yeah. And he's an Aries.

We haven't talked about Aries yet.

He was born conjunct to the North node of destiny, his son.

So again, we're seeing that as an interesting signature coming up.

A lot of these nodes of fate are involved in the individuals who are associated with Which to me just really exposes like, yeah, these are all people who have legacies now that are sort of surrounding this really historic event and this historic series of events that took place.

What I find really interesting in his chart is that his Mercury, the planet of communication, is in the sign of Pisces.

Again, we were talking about Neptune, the planet of illusion and delusion being in Pisces.

So at the time of these trials, the way that he was thinking, Mercury rules communication, it rules our mind, the way that we process information, was being really heavily influenced by this Neptunian fantasy world.

so it's like as this was going on and people were presenting all of this freaky spectral evidence he was like i guess so yeah i guess i guess it's real yeah everybody's buying this i guess these girls are coming in talking about people flying in through windows like something to it something something weird and then after that transit had lifted after he was no longer you know as time Time went on and he had perspective and there was distance from what took place.

As the chart sort of separated and opened up, as we saw, he then had more perspective to be like, whoa, I was under a spell.

Yeah. And I think that if, I think that he would have said something quite like that, that he himself was hypnotized by what had happened.

Yeah. But like the real, the real spell was happening in the judicial system.

Right. Exactly. Exactly.

I mean, it's so interesting because with all of these, we see the story of, you know, of spells and witches and of persecution.

And it's just all sort of not what they thought it was, but it's all there.

You know, the underbelly was being exposed, but it wasn't Rebecca Nurse.

You know, it was them.

It was themselves. It was the whole society.

I mean, he proved it with like privately doing that day of reparations, like because he felt so guilty.

he had guilt for the rest of his life and he's one of the only ones who would admit that which is huge and he's the only Aries is Aries a fixed sign?

no it is not it's a cardinal sign so that's interesting that he's the one not a fixed sign and he can actually admit that he was wrong where the fixed signs could not well what's interesting is my girl not my girl let me rephrase that but Anne who I think we all need a fresh perspective on has her moon in Aries and is herself a Libra sun, which is the opposite of Aries.

So those cardinal placements seem to be—which, you know, Capricorn is a cardinal sign— seem to have some—they're the ones who are coming in with a little bit more remorse.

That's interesting.

That does make sense.

Huh. Very interesting.

Maybe we should round this out by talking about a couple of the victims that everybody probably knows, like, the most. Yeah.

Definitely Giles Corey.

Giles Corey. We gotta go Giles.

We know that he was pressed to death because he wouldn't enter a plea, because if you entered a plea, you could have your land taken away and all your belongings from George Corwin, essentially.

So instead of allowing that to happen and leaving his family without anything, he decided not to.

He had two days of being pressed to death, and the only thing he responded when George Corwin tried to get anything from him was more weight, and then he ended up dying.

His curse was, damn you, Sheriff, I curse you and Salem.

them and that that's the curse that seems to have gone all the way through i think that worked yeah i think so too but he's one that everybody knows about he he had like he was a wealthy farmer in the town so and he he didn't have like he wasn't super well liked in a moment i would say uh he had a reputation of being a little aggressive a little violent a little angry um he was charged with murdering his farm hand in 1676 so it's not like he was like coming out of the scot -free yeah not scot -free at all he had a little come up he had some blood on his hands he definitely did but he was he was found

guilty he only got a fine for it a lot of people were mad about that and thought he should have gotten more for that and people think that might have played into him being accused so uh he was born august 16th 1611 in the uk so we are back with alio back with alio So, you know, we had talked about the Leo as being, you know, of the ego.

Right. We had mentioned that with one of the judges is that when we have this Leo energy of this being sort of like egoic, I have more, I know more, I could be higher than whoever.

And I think that that also, you know, this is the only person in the Salem Witch Trials who was pressed to death.

And this is also the only person who was like, I'm not going to play by your fucking rules.

yeah right like if you want to kill me you're gonna have to do it in this other way where you're gonna have to get creative get creative and also like it's gonna be disgusting you know like it's gonna be a really gross scene for you and all the villagers so that's very leo change it up for me yeah do it special for me um mercury in leo jupiter in leo sun in leo so again Again, that Jupiter -Sun conjunction coming up as a signature here in a lot of these charts, which is just this larger than life energy.

To me, you know, it doesn't surprise me that there is in his own way, if he was going to go down, he wanted to do it on his terms. Yeah.

You know, and not speaking to whether or not he was or, you know, was a good person or was not a good person.

And obviously, it sounds like he was a complicated, aggressive, fiery man.

It is interesting that when it came to his death and his legacy, that it is sort of a standout, a notable death within this.

Because he wanted to maintain a sense of his dignity in it.

And that was his way of doing it.

And cursing, right?

And doing a really iconic curse.

Right. Truly. That went on for centuries.

Yeah. I mean, who's the real witch?

I know. Well, I was just going to say, do you see anything witchy in his chart whatsoever that would give credence to the curse?

Well, you know, the thing that I would say stands out to me, in addition to him, of course, being a Leo and having that Jupiter Sun conjunction, is that he has his North Node in Gemini and Uranus in Gemini in his chart, because he was significantly older.

He was Is he in his 80s?

Yeah, he was a lot older.

So he was going through his Uranus return at that time, which happens if you live long enough.

If you get into your 80s, you go through your Uranus return, which happens at 84.

And he was 81. So he was just a few years shy of his exact Uranus return.

But he was going – your Uranus return is when you – because Uranus is the planet of revolution and rebellion.

You have the rebellion.

So when you go through that, you really just say like, yeah, I don't give any fucks at all anymore.

I'm doing it my way.

And I think that to flip this on its head, to be like, you're calling me a witch, you're killing me for this, I'm going to curse you.

There's something so Sassy Something poetic Vindictive Powerful Reclaiming one's agency And I personally think that Anyone can put a curse on someone I don't think you have to be a witch To do curses I think that it's just your intention And where you sort of apply it In this case it sounds like it was a very well warranted Time for a curse It's a very specific curse too.

Well -deserved curse.

Yeah, truly. The next one I would say is Rebecca Nurse, just because that's my girl.

Yeah. We know Rebecca Nurse.

She was beloved. They did the petition to try to get her out of it.

They found her not guilty, but then our girlies there, our afflicted girlies, threw themselves on the ground in the courtroom and got her said to be guilty again.

in. And actually she was feuding with the Putnam family over border boundaries, which they think had a lot to do with it.

And she also disapproved of the appointment of Samuel Parris as the new Puritan minister.

So there was a lot of people that were not pleased with her that were very powerful and happened to be accusers.

I mean, what I noticed in this chart initially is that that this woman was almost 100 years old.

Oh, my God. And she was like ailing too.

She was, yeah, she was born in 1598.

So she was, you know, she was in her 90s and then getting wrapped up in all of this.

And the energy from that to me is so cautionary and it's so a mirror, you know, when you have someone who is that old and ailing and who is so beloved within your community and then you turn against this individual Jewel, who is just like this helpless old woman.

It's like, what are you really doing here?

What are we pulling?

People love her. She was pious.

She was like a churchgoing woman.

She was doing everything they wanted, said they wanted everybody to do.

And I think that some of the things that are interesting to me in this is that she was going through her Jupiter return.

In fact, it was exact.

Jupiter was in her chart in Gemini at six degrees.

That's where the conjunction between Jupiter and Uranus happened.

So to me, I have goosebumps because this woman was the symbol of we have gone too far.

And this was it. A lot of people saw that.

And I think that we have those two sort of events that took place.

That May 27th date is really stand out to me in terms of when things went haywire and then when Rebecca Nurse was accused and everything that we knew about this old 92 year old woman was just like completely you know overlooked for the sake of hearsay this was and her Jupiter was right at that point of Jupiter Uranus conjunction which defines these witch trials this was like the what have you done you know like what are you actually doing here what do you try to get out of this how do we go on from here right because you did it you know you executed rebecca nurse yeah right like where do we go

what now yeah and like and if you did this then what else will you do right right it's so no one is safe that's my girl rebecca i love her pour one out for rebecca kills pour one out for rebecca i mean i also think that like it's an interesting you know it's interesting that that breaking point was a 92 year old woman.

You know, it's interesting that that was sort of, because not the four year old who was in jail, but like this 92 year old woman was enough for people to be like, wait, what?

At least start thinking like, wait a second.

Yeah. Something is weird because how could someone live 92 years and be such a, you know, a loving member of our community and participate so much and be someone that we all revere and respect only to be a witch?

yeah right like this doesn't make this doesn't make sense in the flip -flop of the the trial like finding her not guilty and them being like oh the girlies are like what are we doing right what's going on we're just giving into tantrums right um i think the last person we should focus on is somebody that probably everybody knows we were talking about this earlier the crucible it's gonna come it's the perfect place to end it's john proctor i mean why is he always hot and everything it's john proctor you know him you love him you want to date him like why do we just he was i mean he was a wealthy

farmer right he was a wealthy farmer so he's got that going with he was also a very outspoken critic of the salem witch trials from the jump um he got a little aggressive with it he said he would but he would whip or beat the afflicted girls he didn't do it but he would threaten to do it because he was so disgusted by them not great his wife elizabeth Proctor was arrested on charges of witchcraft. That's when they turned on him.

He actually knew, he recognized that this is mass hysteria and something's wrong here.

Big time. He wrote a letter to the Boston clergy asking them to intervene and move the trials to Boston because he was like, it's not happening here.

Salem's losing their goddamn minds.

Bring it to Boston, bring some law, bring it to Boston.

We've got to get a group on things.

We'll figure it out.

And the clergy actually was like, yeah, that seems to be the case.

Yeah, sounds weird. But when they answered, it was too late.

He was already executed.

So John the Hottie.

John the Hot One. John the Hot One of the whole trial is a Libra.

A Libra. See, Mikey, there you go.

Look at that redemption for Libra.

Exactly. So, you know, Anne Putnam, a Libra.

Yeah, but John Proctor.

John Proctor, a Libra.

Yeah. But also, I mean, I do think it's interesting that when we talk about the cardinal signs having this sort of interesting awareness of what's going on in this, they weren't in the mix.

They weren't being as influenced by this mutable Gemini, Sag, Piscean energy or had this sort of stubbornness that we see with the fixed signs, right, throughout it.

John Proctor as a Libra was sort of like, okay, like what is fair here, right?

Libra is the sign of the scales.

It's associated with balance It's associated with sort of harmony and equity So we have this Libra Sun coming in and being like wait this none of this makes sense This is not a fair system.

This is not a fair trial Like we're not doing this.

We're not approaching this.

Yeah, right and I think that even though it's tea that he said that he's gonna whip the girls like I get where he's coming from with it He was pissed and he was also showing like They don't have that much power like stop treating them like saints stop treating them like they are not anything more than children right because i'm sure that in pure puritan kids were being whipped all the time yeah so they were like definitely we always do exactly so we treat them like kids yeah don't treat them like they are the ones who have all of this insight and who can dictate the fate of our community members

so in you know saying something as sort of aggressive as that i think that the message was like let's get some logic back in here like hello like Mugatu or am I taking crazy pills so in the chart you know it's an it's it's an interesting chart in that we have um a lot of sort of planets there's a lot of clusters going on so we don't have a stellium but for instance we have Pluto and Jupiter that are connected we have Mars and Saturn that are connected And I think that there is this sort of like this recognition of, yeah, this doesn't look like someone who is not strict to me.

You know, this some John Proctor also played by the rules.

Oh, yeah. He was not like he was not a wild child.

No way. Not my John Proctor.

But he also saw. No, he's daddy.

He plays by the rules.

but he also saw someone here who you know he saw a system that was absolutely falling apart he saw the collapse of his community and that's i think what he was calling out yeah i don't think he was saying i don't think i'm not i don't think that witches are real are real like i i think that this could be legit but the way that you all are approaching it is nuts and he sought out to help To fix it.

Like, he looked outside and was like, someone come put some logic back into this whole thing.

Yes. And that's really what he was sort of seeking was, like, we have to turn this down.

Bring the rules back.

I want rules. But I don't want these wackadoo rules because these aren't rules.

This is chaos. Yeah.

Which is what it ended up degrading to.

Exactly. Wow. Wow. So no wonder he's hot.

So no wonder he's always hot in all the things.

Exactly. This is like canon.

You have to make them hot and everything makes sense.

Yeah. It's so funny.

It's the way it is.

This was fascinating.

I could do this for, like, 18 hours.

100%. I could just sit here and be like, and what about this person?

Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting.

And I think that, you know, to bring it back to how we started, like, all of these planets and all of these different placements didn't necessarily need to manifest like this.

Right. But it's interesting to have the storyline and to know, you know, who these individuals were, what these events were, how did this all take shape, and then how did the planet support that, you know?

And, like, how were they leaning into these different attributes?

What mechanisms were there to send them in certain ways?

And often the worst versions of them.

Right. It's so true.

And now with the sky looking so similar, what can we do now?

I was going to say, everybody's got to, like, everybody hold on tight and make good choices.

Yeah, exactly. And I think that it's such a cautionary tale and it continues to be a cautionary tale of mob mentality.

Yes. You know, and what to do.

And we constantly are battling this.

We're constantly battling like mass cancellations of people and just like, you know, all rumors and social media, swirling of social media.

And to me, it's like, yeah, of course, Jupiter is in Gemini.

You know, of course, we have to navigate the same types of conditions.

Wow. It's just that we're approaching it.

You know, we have different tools.

Yeah. Yeah, in a different age.

That makes so much sense.

Instead of just meeting by like the town water pit, you're meeting on social media talking about someone.

Right, but like a mass cancellation without any evidence to back it up to me feels like watching, you know, Giles Corey get pressed.

Yeah, exactly. It really does.

And who's sticking the tongue back in the mouth.

Like don't be disgusting.

Yeah, don't be that person sticking the tongue back in the mouth.

Yes, don't be George Corwin.

Don't do that. Never be a George Corwin.

That's the moral of this story.

Never be a George Corwin.

Maybe be somewhat of a Giles Proctor.

I just morphed them together.

Be your own character.

Be the good parts of Giles.

There you go. And the good parts of Joanne.

I meant to do that.

I felt it. That was on purpose.

It was. It was. Make up your own name.

Be your own self. Be Cotton Increase Mather.

How about that? I like it.

No, this was so much fun.

I want to do this again with you.

It was amazing. Anytime.

Anytime. Thank you.

You're a resident weirdo astrologer.

You're hired. For everybody else listening, tell us where we can find your new show, Horoscope Weekly.

So check out my new show, Horoscope Weekly.

It's out every Monday.

And we get into what is going on that week.

And maybe we'll touch on 1692 as well.

You never know. And you can listen wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Amazing. I'm listening.

Oh, I'm listening immediately.

I'm getting in the car and listening on my way home.

And where can we follow you on socials and find all your books?

I am at Aliza Kelly Everywhere.

That's A -L -I -Z -A -K -E -L -L -Y.

And you can find my books wherever you find books.

Great. Yeah. Go get books wherever you read.

Go find all the books.

Go get some books. Amazing.

Well, guys, we hope you keep listening, and we hope you keep it weird. Weird, but not so weird as everybody else in the Salem Witch Trials.

Don't be George Corwin.

No, don't be George Corwin.

Or Jonathan, really.

Yeah, and don't be Giles Corey, I guess.

Or no, Giles Proctor, see, now I'm wrong.

I gotta go, everyone.

I gotta go, guys. Be your own person.

Exactly. Be your own person.

Goodbye. Goodbye. Thank you.

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[Astrological Perspectives on the Salem Witch Trials: A Deep Dive with Aliza Kelly]-[Episode 605: The Stars Over Salem with Special Guest Aliza Kelly]

📋 Summary

The Astrological Anatomy of Mass Hysteria: Salem 1692

The Birth Chart of the Trials

The Role of the "Gemini Stellium"

Character Analysis: The Accusers and the Accused

Modern Parallels: A Cautionary Tale

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript