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Right now, I am listening to the Southern Book Club's Guide to Slaying Vampires by Grady Hendrix and I just cannot get enough of it.
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You guys, I tried my mochi ice cream the other day, and I was lifted off of this planet into just another galaxy entirely.
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And it just feels very indulgent.
I loved it. I tried the cookies and cream flavor and I still have the mango flavor to try.
I'm so excited to try the mango because if it's half as good as the cookies and cream, I'll probably just like fall on the floor and start crying.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash.
And I'm Elena. And this is Molbid.
it is morbid what's up bro it's rainy out it's so gloomy it's been gloomy this whole week it is very gloomy which i i like but when i didn't sleep well the night before i don't like it because it makes me tired see i actually slept totally fine let's just talk about our sleep patterns i slept totally fine last night but then i woke up this morning and i felt so so tired immediately because of the gloomination outside.
Because of the gloomination.
The gloomination. It's a rumination of gloom.
It is. Absolutely out here.
Yeah. Which again, normally I really like it.
I like rain. I like the gloom.
I feel like this would be good writing weather for you.
It is. Very good writing weather.
I always get like super, super motivated and inspired in this kind of weather.
This weather makes me want to curl up on my couch and watch watch mermaids with Cher wow yeah I didn't see that that's what it makes that particular film have you ever seen mermaids no Cher Winona Ryder I've seen I know what it is but I've never seen it I don't know that you'd like it who knows you know I still I still gotta keep giving you credit for making me watch Salpern that's true give me all the credit I'll give you the credit for that give me your your credit card keep giving you credit like give me give me everything give me everything you have because of saltboard because of saltboard
no i you know what i like to watch like um this is when i want to watch like urban legend oh yeah that's my comfort one of my movies or or scream yep scream definitely it is a comfort movie oh screaming ah that makes me want popcorn but i packed it in my lunch today so i'm excited about that there you go yeah i didn't pack my current hyper fixation snack though i finally have one i think when we were talking to current it in Sabrina.
I don't know if that episode came out yet.
It did not. It did not.
It will, though. It will, and you'll hear me say, I don't really think I have a hyperfixation snack.
I think we were recording when I said that.
It also might have just been in conversation.
All that to say... This song might be fake.
All of it. It's not a true story.
But all that to say, I think I found my hyperfixation snack and I should figure out the TikTok early.
I'm going to do that later.
Who recommended it?
But it's popcorn, dark chocolate, like chocolate chips, and then Then maple glazed pecans mixed together.
That does sound great.
It's so good. Welcome to the world of hyperfixation snacks where you will hate that eventually and you'll have to take a long break from it.
Oh, you end up hating it?
It's part of the hyperfixation process.
I'm also hyperfixating on this oatmeal.
Yeah, you wear it out.
You wear it out until it becomes a thing where you're like, I don't even want to look at that anymore.
Oh, that's terrible news.
But then you'll loop back around eventually.
You just got to give it some time to breathe.
Okay. Yeah, that's happened to me many times.
Oh, cool. Yeah. I'm also making this oatmeal that I'm fixating on.
Look at you. Yeah, I'm not pregnant.
I feel like this is like giving the vibe of like, I love these snacks all of a sudden.
Oh, no. Yeah. I think everybody likes a weird snack.
Yeah. But well, then I've also been posting that my cat Franklin has been really snuggly with me lately, and people are messaging me asking me if I'm pregnant.
Yeah, she's not pregnant.
I'm not. So don't worry.
I like just got married.
Yeah. That'd be a lot.
But yeah, Franklin's just being sweet.
He is. I know did you see the thing I posted up last night?
I did. I love him Cats She's such a cat lady I am.
She's that lady that will be like do you guys want to see photos of my cats?
No I am not. And then she'll show you through I am that lady and I will show you pictures of my cats and you better want to see them And she's going to want a reaction Yeah you better react to my cat Don't fuck around.
Tell me how cute he is.
Cry Cry. Cry right now.
Cry at how beautiful these kitties are.
No, I did have a moment last night where I was like, what if we got like one more cat?
And then I was like, no, I didn't say that because Drew will say yes.
He's also a crazy cat man.
Don't just go with it.
But no, three is the limit.
Yeah. I don't want to push it.
Don't push that limit.
No, no, no. You gave me a, you just gave me a look like, do what you want.
No, don't let me do what I want.
Don't do what because eventually i'll be like why do i have so many cats but yeah that's where we are that's our banter for the intro so there you go i have a case from australia today australia australia and for all those out there who don't like the old -timey cases this one's for you because it's not that old hey there you go it's in the 2000s i think you know old -timey cases are making a come back yeah they are i personally i think but this one is also not old well there you go i don't know why i said also i was gonna say i i love that it's just not old um but yeah not old and also not old
it's not old but i guess to some people it might be old because i don't think of the early 2000s as that long ago but it really is that long ago it is but i feel like the 2000s are that's current pretty modern to me agreed well this is the society murders which took place in australia and one of the victims there are two is margaret wells king so let's start with her yeah margaret wells king was born margaret mary lord in melbourne australia on june 16 1933 she was the oldest of two children born to robert and doreen lord i really like the name doreen yeah it's cute it is cute.
Now initially this family was like a really working class family.
Margaret's dad Robert worked as a commercial truck driver and in her younger years or like during her younger years and then eventually he started a road construction company of his own in the like 1940s ish.
Throughout the 1940s and 50s he was really doing steady business and by the 60s his company had actually become one of the largest road construction companies in the entire region.
Wow. Which made him and his family hella wealthy hell yeah they had a lot of money this is the society murders so it is knew that was coming exactly now as the daughters of what was now one of victoria's wealthiest families at this point margaret and her sister diana grew up with everything they could ever want it ever want they wanted for nothing they went to private boarding schools for their primary education a private girl's school for secondary education goodbye education and after graduating from high school.
Margaret herself went on to pursue a degree in business.
By then, it was the early 1950s, and that was when she met Brian Biggles Wales, an airline pilot.
Biggles? Biggles. What an adorable name.
I know, right? They hit it off immediately, and they dated for four years before eventually getting married on June 17th, just one day after Margaret turned 24.
So once they got back from their honeymoon, Margaret and Brian moved into Margaret's parents' home in Camberwell, well, and that was after her parents had moved into a smaller home.
So, like, Brian and Margaret took over that house.
They didn't live with the parents.
A year later, Margaret got pregnant with their first child, Sally.
Sally was born in 1958.
And then four other children quickly followed. Damien in 1960, Emma in 63, Prudence, which I love.
Prudence, I love that name.
Right. She was was born in 65.
And finally, Matthew in 1968.
So Margaret and Brian, they were able to raise their children how they had both grown up because Brian was from a pretty well -off family too.
And they both together wanted to make sure that their kids had every privilege, every opportunity also available to them at the time.
Yeah, of course. So as a family, they split their time between their home in Camberwell, a vacation home in Sorrento, and they just bopped around to like Like, lots of expensive and exclusive locations around Australia.
They were living, like, this beautiful family life, the high life.
Like, everything was pretty perfect.
Yeah. Sounds it. Now, the first decades of their marriage, they were really, like, ideal, you know?
But, like I always say, by 1968, the cracks started to show in the relationship.
relationship as a commercial pilot brian was away from home for long periods of time quite often which left margaret responsible for all five children on her own and that's a lot like it's one thing to stay home with like two kids even that is a lot i can't picture that but with five yeah i'm like that is so many children yeah so not only was she like overwhelmed but she's also starting to feel really lonely because like yeah you put all the kids to bed and you're just sitting at night by yourself.
Yeah. And she's just, I'm sure all day, she's just kind of tending to everyone else's needs.
And it's like, that wears a lot out of you.
Yeah. So in 1968, while on vacation in Brampton Island in Queensland, Brian actually struck up a friendship with fellow vacationer Paul King.
Both men were around the same age.
They shared a lot of interests and they also, so they met on vacation, but they also lived pretty close to one another like in their homes in melbourne so when the vacation on brampton island ended they they were like why should our friendship end like we live so close to each other we met by happenstance let's hang out we're best friends what the fuck they were like did we just become best friends yup for now oh over time they started including margaret in their plans and quickly all three of them became best friends wow this sounds so nice at first it does and i've never heard of this case so I
don't know what's going to happen, but I know it's not going to be great.
I'll let you know. Okay.
Yeah, as we go on. Awesome.
So the friendship between Margaret, Brian, and Paul continued, actually, for several years.
This friendship went on for years.
However, unbeknownst to Brian, Margaret and Paul had been carrying on an affair while Brian was away working.
Oh, no. Yes. So they were best friends, but also - Not at all.
Not at all. Not at all.
Foe. Oh. Mm -hmm. And by the mid -1970s, their relationship, Margaret and Paul's, had become serious.
So, and at that point, Margaret and Brian's marriage had effectively ended.
Yeah. It was all done.
According to author Hilary Bonney, when Margaret's father died in 74, thus securing her vast inheritance, Margaret and Paul decided to go ahead and make their relationship public.
Bonney wrote, within days of Rob Lord's funeral, Brian Wales moved out of the family home in camberwell to the sorrento beach house and paul king moved in with margaret and the five children oh so brian just like brian met this guy became friends with him and then brian has to move out of his home and this man other guy who was his best friend or was supposedly his best friend swoops in and literally lives with his children yeah holy shit it's a it's a big traumatic event for everyone involved.
That's very gnarly.
It is. And not surprisingly, the end of Brian and Margaret's relationship came as a shock to almost everybody who knew them, especially their kids, who found this transition really difficult.
Like, this is intense.
Margaret and Brian officially got divorced in 1976 and they did share custody of the children, but Brian's poor ability to cope with the divorce took a toll on the rest of the family.
Like, I don't think he was really able to get over this and it did affect his parenting to a degree.
Because it was such a betrayal.
Absolutely. On both sides.
Yeah. According to that same author, Hilary Bonney, the older Wales children bore the brunt of their father's depression and endured long conversations with him about the loss of his adored wife.
So it's like, because you have to remember, he didn't lose just his wife.
He also lost his best friend.
Yeah, that's like huge.
All at once. Huge. And like his family, his home, he lost everything in an instant.
I can't even fathom that.
So do I think it's right to like confide in your kids and make them like your closest confidants?
Maybe not. No, unfortunately not because it's like your kids – unfortunately your kids should not, you know, have to bear any of the weight of what's going on in your life.
They just shouldn't.
In my opinion, that's how I parent.
Same. They should never have to shoulder any of my personal issues.
Right. Or what's going on in my personal life.
Yeah. But at the same time, I understand that this man is human and that he's alone.
And you can see how this would happen because the kids are older teenagers at this point.
I know because that's the other thing.
I don't have older teenagers, so I don't know how that dynamic changes and I'm not going to pretend that I do.
And it does change.
You're right. That's a great point.
It's a change in the dynamic.
So it's like maybe he just felt like he could.
Because you want to have an open relationship with your children and you want to be able to talk to them about things.
you just it's you I personally I never want to cross the line of like burdening them with my problems. You know what I mean?
Like I want to talk to them and be open to them but I never want them to feel like they have to shoulder any of my the weight of what I have going on.
You know what I mean?
Agreed. But once again I've never been through that kind of trauma.
No. That he went through and I don't have older kids.
And. So I don't know what the dynamic is.
And this this wasn't necessarily a time where men specifically were seeking out therapy.
Absolutely. Nobody really was seeking therapy in general.
It wasn't very talked about at this time period.
And you know he's not intending to burden them with the weight of what's going on.
He's not going into this being like, let me fuck my kids up by telling them.
Nobody intends to do that if they're good parents.
Well, and it's probably starting off as discussions of how it's affecting them.
Just a conversation.
They're all going through this together.
other and then he's probably just oversharing a little too much of his own personal feelings so it's just sad all around because you understand there's a lot of human emotions happening yeah exactly while brian had what bonnie describes as unlimited access to most of his children for some reason margaret did choose to restrict his access to their youngest son matthew brian later recalled i did not have much to do with matthew i felt like this was mainly because because Margaret and Paul wanted it to look like Matthew was their child.
Because Matthew, I think he was like seven when this all happened.
And they just stopped him from being able to see him?
Or like restricted the access?
He could see him, but it was very restricted.
Apparently, just after their divorce, Margaret told Brian that Paul would be a better father.
And because Matthew was still so young, she didn't want Brian to, quote, exercise any fatherly influence over their son.
oh my yeah it was that's it was a messy traumatic divorce for everybody involved it sounds like geez yeah the divorce itself was definitely traumatic and it was a very dislocating experience for all the wales children but the specific treatment of matthew with regard to his relationship with brian really only made things worse for him in particular yeah i think think that's a that's a poor choice that's a poor choice like that is that's opinion -based but I agree totally opinion -based and very you know I don't know the all the details and ins and outs of what's going on but like that doesn't sound
like it just doesn't sound like to keep him away from his real you know his real parent yeah who's been his dad for seven years of his life and then to replace him to a little bit with this new guy that was your dad's best friend yeah it's just That can be a little messy here.
Well, it did prove itself to be messy because within a few months of all of this, Matthew started showing signs of behavioral problems. Yeah.
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Hey there, my weird weirdos.
I want to take a minute to recommend another podcast called Who Took Misty Copsey?
In September of 1992, 14 -year -old Misty Copsey leaves the Washington State Fair with her best friend and is never seen again.
Her body is never found.
At the time, western Washington is home to prolific serial killers like the Green River Killer, which leads to different theories on who's responsible for what happened to Misty.
Over the course of eight episodes, host and cold case investigator Sarah Kalin speaks with Misty's friends and family, looks at police records and different anonymous tips to try to figure out if Misty's disappearance is the work of a serial killer or someone who knew her.
No suspects are ruled out.
After 33 years, Sarah Kalin hopes to answer the question, who took Misty?
You guys are going to love this.
If you listen to Morbid, we know that you love a cold case, and we always tell you a cold case is never cold.
So definitely give this a listen.
Definitely look into the case.
Listen to who took misty copsy wherever you get your podcasts now with margaret's inheritance having been fully dispensed or dispersed excuse me and paul's wealth already stable the newly married couple lived an even more privileged life than they ever had before which is really saying something because they were already living like very wealthy people now they're like even wealthier the children split their time between their home time with their father, weekends at Paul's cattle ranch. Prudent said, during this period of our lives, mother was really generous and we were all very spoiled.
We had a beach house, we had a unit at the snow, we had several farms with animals, horses, and had some pretty amazing trips overseas.
Wow. So there were good times, and the older children were called life after their parents' divorce as mostly positive, but at the same time, they did have a hard time embracing Paul as any kind of father figure, like the older ones.
Because like I said, they're maybe like 12 to 18 at this point.
You know what I mean?
Yeah. I mean, that's tough.
And again, he's been in their lives as both of your best friends.
Yeah. That's the thing.
And so it's not like this is a new guy or something, you know what I mean, that like they just are having trouble getting used to.
It's like the dynamic, like the whole whole relationship was different before.
And now I understand having a trouble figuring that out.
It's not like their parents just got divorced and this guy came out of nowhere.
Like you just said, they know who this guy is.
And I'm sure they were pretty aware of the situation that ended everything up here.
Well, that's the thing.
It's like you guys were all best friends.
They know their dad was away a lot.
They're going to put two and two together, especially the older ones.
And it's like, they're going to understand what's going on and they're going to have a little little resentment they're gonna have resentment and really for that reason they like like i said they didn't see paul as a father figure whatsoever and they didn't really respect him at all no and i you can't i mean that's that's trauma man it is they actually used to refer to him as the butler or the shadow because he was said to be really subservient to margaret oh wow matthew's experience matthew's the youngest one on the other hand seemed to be pretty different like i said he He was still young when his parents
split, and I was right.
He was seven years old.
Okay. And because he was deprived of a relationship with his own dad, he did start to see Paul as more of a father figure.
Yeah, because he's young.
He's young, and now Paul is really the main man in his life.
So he did develop a pretty healthy relationship with Paul.
Well, that's good. The vast difference in their experiences, though, created a rift between Matthew and the rest of his siblings, who kind of looked at his ostensible allegiance with Paul as a betrayal to their father oh seeing this is so hard but it's like she's seven that's the thing because he's so he's a child but then it's like you're all so young like i don't know exactly how old everyone is yeah and your siblings so it's like there's a whole different dynamic here and it's like oh i just feel like this is so hard like i hate that these kids had to deal with all this it's a it's a lot of just
tumultuous it's like family politics that they shouldn't have to deal with yet that's exactly what it is family politics you shouldn't have to deal with it until you're older and you can just be like shut up everybody and you just recognize everything for what it is yeah well and it's it's so they also they see that paul and matthew have this like good relationship and they're like fuck that like we hate this guy not hate him but like we don't like this guy we don't respect him and then also some of them did feel that margaret the mom favored matthew oh so his uh matthew's sister emma later told
police mom adored matthew to the stage where we used to call him golden boy oh boy so there's a lot of different dynamics going on a lot of different dynamics now while some of their resentment of matthew was rooted in how margaret prioritized him over her other children there were other things about matthew that the rest of the will's children found irritating and off -putting one of them was that he struggled considerably with his schoolwork i think that probably like they resented that maybe because it took margaret's time away from the rest of them yeah because i was gonna say why is that really
that's when i looked at that i was like i don't understand but that's his life i like i don't understand why that would bother you that's what i thought too but i'm like maybe it just took a lot of margaret's time yeah i could see that he also had a very hard time developing healthy social skills they felt he lied constantly and by the time he reached his teenage years his behavior was getting way worse and he was having more frequent violent outbursts that made him really difficult to be around yeah um and just a trigger warning here for animal cruelty oh no no emma recalled he was very cruel
to animals i used to tell mom but matthew would lie and get out of it now this included among other things quote crucifying flies when he was four impaling eels when he was eight and at 10 he tied mice by their tails to the back of his motorbike and drove around the farm with them okay he was disturbed from a young age that should be the biggest of of red flags yeah like that should be the biggest of red flags it absolutely should be and this started and if you did skip over that i won't go into detail anymore but the animal cruelty started when he was four yeah which i feel like is worth noting
he was seven when the divorce was finalized so this was already happening this was already happening who's to say that it like the relationship between brian and margaret wasn't already tumultuous i'm sure it probably was yeah but But he's four years old and he's displaying this behavior already.
Like, I feel like that's an innate behavior.
Oh, you got to nip that.
Like, that's... You got to do something.
Like, I'm telling you, the cruelty to animals thing...
That's scary. ...is such a red flag.
And I don't know if you guys can hear Blanche.
She's pissed. She's like, hell yeah.
She's like, it's a big fucking deal.
And it is. But yeah, cruelty to animals, I feel like is...
It's always something to be concerned about.
It's a big red flag.
Because it can turn into a lot of scary things.
And in this case, it does.
yeah so emma you know she told us like everything in detail uh matt's brother matthew's brother damien put it more bluntly and just told police matthew was a prick of a kid we were never close wow all right like yeah i hated him always he's an asshole you guys are siblings can't fault you for having feelings no and i mean if that's what he's running around doing i would also call him a prick of a kid yeah so the older will's children they have some more memories of their childhood now but but between their inability to accept their mother's new relationship and matthew's increasingly violent behavior life
in the whale's home was definitely an ongoing struggle for everybody it was highlighted by lots and lots of good times but that's there were also really shitty times yeah there was some dark shit and a lot yes dark shit happening and a lot going on so the rift continued to grow between all of them as one by one they moved out of the house and by By the time Margaret and Paul were finally married in 1995, none of the children were invited to the wedding.
Whoa. Which like that goes to show you that obviously I've named some instances here.
There was a lot more going on.
They weren't even invited to the wedding?
None of the children were invited to the wedding.
That's bleak. That's really bleak.
So now going back a little more in depth to Matthew without the animal cruelty, don't worry.
He really struggled to make it through high school.
One teacher put it pretty much as bluntly as you possibly could.
She said, Matthew was wasting his and everyone else's time both in class and out of it.
Wow. Yeah. Okay. But despite those struggles, he finished high school in 85 and attempted to enter the working world.
But he was fired from his first job at a hardware store after just four months of being employed there.
Wow. Yes. Rather than look for another job, he decided that he was going to study at the John Morey School of Hairdressing.
and after completing the 20 month apprenticeship, which that is a long apprenticeship in comparison to what you do over here.
Oh, really? I was like, damn, that's a long apprenticeship.
He took a job at one of the John Maury schools or salons in Melbourne after he was done with his education.
So he found a job for himself.
He would spend the next decade working for the Maury salon chain and then ended up opening his own franchise in the Knox City Shopping Center in 1997 and he did build a a small but loyal following.
So he was doing pretty well for himself.
He might not have had the mind for academics in some people's words, but he was good at hairdressing and he didn't seem to struggle managing his small staff.
He took care of administrative responsibilities.
Which that's all not easy stuff to do.
No. Running your own business is hard. Running a salon, I'm sure to some people, it doesn't sound like much, but there's a lot that goes into it.
Oh yeah. Admin alone would fucking ruin me.
hate admin. Yeah, I'm not good at admin.
Not at all. Like either of us.
I wasn't saying like she's not good at it at all.
At the salon's peak success though, Matthew was earning between $1 ,500 to $3 ,000 a week.
And remember, that's back in the 90s.
Yeah. So that's pretty good.
And he was consistently busy.
The professional success did a lot to prop up his ego after a lifetime of low expectations and disdain from his teachers and his family.
Yeah. It seems like in this little little period of his life he was like proving himself to himself yeah he was flourishing a little bit and finding himself yeah so when he wasn't working he spent his time partying going to bars clubs looking for ladies he's in his early 20s yeah this all came to an end though in the late 90s when he met maritza pizarro a sales assistant at meyer's department store which was actually in the same shopping center as his salon oh okay they initially met when she was going to the salon for regular appointments.
And after a few months, their relationship just grew and became romantic.
And after a few months, they ended up moving in together to Matthew's home in Malvern, which had been purchased for him by a trust set up by Margaret Wales after he turned 18.
So it was his house, but like Margaret bought it.
Yeah. So while Matthew was completely in love with Maritza, he was nonetheless cognizant of how her working class immigrant background might be be received by his wealthy family oh jesus so marisa was born in santiago chile in 1963 and her family actually fled chile in 1976 after enduring three years of augusto pinochet's dictatorship so they literally lived through a dictatorship but they were able to escape and establish themselves in a melbourne suburb where they worked really hard to build a solidly middle -class lifestyle like she came from a great family yeah and despite coming from a thoroughly
respectable family matthew insisted that his family thought of maritza's family as just a bunch of w slurs i'm not gonna say this this word i don't actually i've never heard of it before but it's a derogatory term used in australian slang to describe people of indian mediterranean or middle eastern descent oh okay so i don't want to say a word but like i don't know the weight of it um but that's how he said his family thought of maritza's family so racist vibes going on yeah not great not awesome it's unclear whether or not matthew was exaggerating so that he could just keep some distance between his family
and his new relationship but later his sister emma did describe maritza to reporters as a common vulgar little gutter snipe and she said that maritza quote would say shocking things and everything seemed to have a sexual connotation so they did not like her she sounds awesome yeah like she sounds hilarious she does vulgar little gutter snipe like get it girl she's like i don't like you i don't like you it seemed that matthew's siblings perceived his relationship with maritza as similar to the relationship between paul and their mother and remember they saw paul as being very subservient to yeah
their mother and they felt like their mother made the rules emma also said that maritza quote totally dominated him from the moment they met talking about matthew yeah and she wasn't the only one who felt that way according to matthew's other sister sally she said matthew actually calls maritza mama as if she's his mother he does everything she tells him to what to eat what he wears i believe he's frightened of her huh now he calls her mama he calls her mama which i don't know if that's like a cultural thing because i know in some cultures like men do call women like i have heard that i've seen
that happen so it's like and it's not in reference to like in a motherly way yeah um no yeah i know what you mean that like i wouldn't want a guy calling me mama no probably because i'm just used to children calling me mama you're like jesus christ if one more person so honestly i'd be like absolutely not not adding another one but i I do wonder if maybe that was a cultural thing that they didn't understand because they hadn't previously been exposed to it.
Yeah, because I've heard men call their significant others mama.
Right. And not in a way that would be off putting.
You know what I mean?
In a way that is like.
Now all I can think of is, hey little mama, let me whisper to you.
That's what I'm thinking.
That's what I'm thinking.
So it's like, I've heard this happen.
happened yeah and it's like so I it's like it absolutely this could be taken two different ways for sure I can see their siblings being like he referred to her because who knows I don't know how he said it I don't know what the inflection was I don't know if it was hey little mama let me whisper in your ear I think or if it was like mama and there was something happening here that we are unaware of yeah or if it's just very innocuous and it's like hey little mama let me whisper in year so we don't know either way yeah because then i think about it and also like in the gay community like that's
a bit like mama yeah and also if it's that here's the thing like obviously this something bad is gonna happen here i know this i'm waiting for it all to drop i don't know what's gonna happen here but so i know something's amiss yeah and i'm assuming matthew is at the heart of it i don't know why maybe it's the animal cruelty but i think that's why so i don't want to to be like defending anyone here too much but i'm just when it comes to like relationships it's like everything is so different consenting adults if they want to call each other something like go off but obviously something is going
to come out of this so well i think that's you did that's perfectly said because then like sally's looking back on this and she's like in the context that she's looking back on it hindsight she probably in the moment was like huh that's weird like i've I've never heard him call anybody that, but, like, whatever.
But then she looks back on what exactly happens.
And she's like, well, that was weirder now that I look back on that.
That's precisely exactly what I'm saying.
It's like, it's hindsight when something bad happens, you look back and see the strange things that are occurring.
Right. But in the moment, you're kind of just like, whatever.
Like, if they want to call each other something, whatever.
Exactly. You know. But anyways, regardless of how everybody felt about Maritza, she and Matthew did end up marrying in May of 1998 in a $25 ,000 wedding that they could not afford but took out a loan to pay for and they spent years repaying that.
That would be a little more than $47 ,000 today.
So a pretty expensive one.
Now, a little less than two years later in March of 2000, Maritza gave birth to their first child.
and with the addition of a new baby into the family matthew reasoned that they should find a new home and he tried to convince margaret to sell the house because i think technically because like she bought it via the trust for him she owns it oh and he just lives there yeah kind of the that makes sense the gist that i got so he's trying to convince margaret to sell this house and give him and maritza the 140 000 profit that would be made from the sale okay but she was was hesitant to do so and she was like let me think on this i don't want to make any hasty decisions yeah so while things seem
to be going well for matthew and maritza as 2000 came to a close they were dealt a difficult blow in the last few months of the year when matthew started developing a pain in his hand that eventually was diagnosed as a repetitive strain injury and that effectively ended his career as a stylist oh no yeah so unable to continue in his line of work he closed the salon at the end of the year and submitted an insurance claim the insurance payments definitely kept them afloat for a few months but yeah they weren't going to support them for the rest of forever and things were getting pretty dodgy at this point
oh no both matthew and maritza being unemployed and living on meager insurance payments was a compelling case though for margaret to release matthew that 140 000 from the sale of the house and after several tense arguments, she did reluctantly go ahead, sell the house, and hand over the profit money.
And that was in the early months of 2001.
So now flush with cash, Matthew and Maritza set about developing plans for a new business.
And they decided that they wanted to open a woman's clothing boutique in mid -2001.
So in order to buy themselves some leeway while the business got off the ground, they paid the landlord a year's rent in advance and they bought about $25 ,000 in stock furniture and fixtures.
So they're starting to spend a lot of money on a new business, which of course it costs a lot of money to set up a business, but they're spending extra money that they don't necessarily have to in addition to that.
Now as the more knowledgeable one in clothing, Maritza, she spent her days running the store while Matthew remained at home taking care of the baby.
And by early 2002, they actually were were making enough to move into a small townhouse of their own.
So to celebrate their new home and their son's second birthday, Matthew and Maritza invited Paul and Margaret to their home for dinner on the evening of April 4, 2002.
Okay. Shockingly, that would be the last time anybody saw Margaret Wales King or Paul King alive.
Oh. On the morning of April 4, 2002, the last day that they were ever seen alive, Margaret and Paul woke up early, as usual.
They spent the morning relaxing, having coffee.
the housekeeper came over as she usually did and tidied up the house.
By 9am, Margaret's bookkeeper had arrived and they spent two hours going over her portfolio until about noon.
And then their friends Fred and Janet Roche arrived for a little lunchtime visit.
The Roches had driven more than an hour from Melbourne and stayed most of the afternoon actually until about like 6 .30.
So they just had, they were having a good time together.
Yeah. But around 6 .30, Margaret excused herself and said they were going to get ready to have dinner at, I think she told Janet that she She was having dinner at her daughter's house.
Or Janet may have misheard. She might have said daughter -in -law.
I was going to say maybe daughter -in -law.
Right. But on the evening of Sunday, April 7th, Margaret's daughter Emma had started to get concerned that she hadn't heard from her mom in several days.
This wasn't like Margaret to go several days without talking to Emma.
And they actually had breakfast plans the next day, which would be Monday the 8th.
And Margaret had a tendency to call her daughter a day before to remind her anytime they had plans.
hands like yeah you know we still on for tomorrow so since they were traveling back from their vacation home emma and her husband stopped along the way so that she could call margaret from a payphone but nobody picked up at margaret and paul's house later when they got home emma got a call from her friend sandra who said that she had actually been trying to reach margaret for three days and she had been unsuccessful oh no so still unable to reach her mother emma decided i'm I'm going to drive over there and like check on them.
Like this is weird. So when she got to the house, she knocked on the door several times, but nobody answered.
But she was able to like let herself in.
I think she had a key.
And she looked around and confirmed that they were nowhere to be seen.
They weren't home. But she looked around the house and nothing seemed out of place.
Nothing seemed suspicious.
The only thing that was weird was that when she went into the master bedroom, she was surprised to find that the bed had been turned down, but it didn't look like anybody had slept in it.
She was like, that's weird. But if you think about it, maybe they had turned down the bed thinking like we'll get home a little late tonight And we can just get right into get right into bed That was my thought that makes sense in the bathroom margaret's night cream her toothbrush her toiletries were all where they should be So it didn't seem like they had gone away for the weekend either.
Yeah So emma was like this is weird. But like I don't know if I should call the police yet.
Like yeah, I don't because you don't want to believe that something's wrong You know, so she went home and the next day she was like hey she said to her husband Damien I think we should go over to the house again like something's just weird about this.
So her and Damien, her husband, she also has a brother named Damien, went to the house to search again but it didn't appear that Margaret or Paul had returned since she was last there last night and still nobody had heard anything from them.
So initially just concerned Emma was now very on nerve.
She's like this is beyond weird. Yeah now it's getting weird. She's like they seemingly just like disappeared into thin air so she and Damian went to the Malvern police to report her parents missing, her mom and her stepdad.
After reporting her mom and her stepdad missing, Emma went back to the house and she and Damian put together a list of family, friends, and acquaintances who could have had any contact with Margaret or Paul.
And they started reaching out to these people one by one.
And it was at this time that Emma noticed a note on the calendar that they had plans with the roaches the night that they went missing.
So she called them immediately and they explained how They had lunch with Margaret and Paul on the afternoon of the 4th, but they had parted ways around 6 .30 because they were like, oh, your mom and Paul had dinner plans.
And they said, unfortunately, I don't think they said with who.
Like they couldn't remember at that very moment.
Yeah. So based on the report from the Roaches and the fact that none of their regular contacts had heard or seen Margaret and Paul, heard from or seen them, the Malvern police, they actually took the case very seriously, like right away.
And they pursued it as a missing persons case.
So the rest of the Wales siblings arrived at Margaret and Paul's house that evening, and they waited while investigators searched.
After a cursory search of the home and interviews with most of the Wales children, detectives determined that nothing appeared to be missing from the house.
So if Margaret or Paul had been taken from the home by force, it wasn't for any obvious financial reasons like ransom, which you might expect in a case like this.
Because remember, these are very well -off people.
For sure. So then, while one of the detectives was interviewing Janet Roche, Emma heard Janet tell the detective that Margaret told her she was going to have to end their evening early because she said, quote, I'm expected at my daughter's home for dinner.
Janet said that's what she said.
Now the comment seemed really strange to Emma because neither she or any of her sisters had plans with their mom for dinner.
But then it occurred to her that she might have met Maritza.
So she called Matthew's house to say, like, hey, have you seen Paul or Mom?
Since leaving their parents' home as young adults, the Will siblings had maintained pretty minimal contact with Matthew.
Like, they didn't really talk to him that much. Yeah.
And nobody had even thought to call him when, when Margaret and Paul had gone missing.
Damn. But now on the phone with Matthew, that seemed to Emma like one of the first places they should have started.
Yeah. Matthew confirmed that Margaret and Paul had been at their house on the evening of the 4th, at which time Emma told Matthew he needed to come to Margaret's house right away, and then just hung up on him and she immediately was like what like this is like what the fuck later in a statement to the police emma would describe matthew's very strange behavior immediately when he arrived at the house she said he burst into the front room his head looked like it was going to explode and i could see the veins in his neck he looked very emotional and asked what's going on he then walked into a corner
of the room and held his eyes with his fingers and let out a distraught cry and moan.
He seemed overwhelmed by the whole situation, which I thought was an absolute overreaction.
The police had not even had the chance to introduce themselves to Matthew.
For all he knew, mom and Paul could have been away for the weekend.
Sally and I were not crying.
We didn't look distraught and we didn't alarm him in any way.
That's strange. So he has really, he should have no idea what he's walking into.
Nobody's even told him anything.
And he's having a massive reaction.
And he's like losing it in the corner.
like they're dead like crying wailing like losing it and they're like we haven't even told you anything yet like you don't even know who these two people are like these detectives like you could be walking in here and the police could be like hey like this has all been a misunderstanding your parents have been waiting for the weekend and blah blah like you have no idea what they're about to say yeah exactly so to emma and us matthew's reaction seemed fake and incredibly performative yeah but it only got stranger from there as the sisters questioned matthew about the the last time he saw their
mother and Paul, he only gave super vague answers about the dinner they had, and each answer seemingly was interrupted by these, like, wild emotional outbursts and very theatrical displays of emotion.
He literally at one point had his head between his knees and was moaning and wailing and crying, where's my mama, what happened to my mama?
Okay. And they were like, this is just a lot.
Like, no one, which, like, you, it's, you know, know people are going to react different ways to different things but yeah i mean we try not because that's like one of the things we're always saying is like we try not to judge somebody's reaction because it's like if i haven't been in that situation i don't know who's to fucking say but they're like we're all remaining calm and like it would be super awesome if you would remain calm so we can all figure this out just to get the information together you know what i mean like there does need to be some semblance of like we got to get control here
because we need to know what's going on exactly we need to share the information together and like figure out the steps in a row yes figure out the next step so i can understand why they were like dude you really got to keep it together like we're all adults here yeah we gotta keep this together we gotta try to figure out what's going on and they're asking him for information and like answers to these questions and when they ask him for specific information all he would say is and he like through tears like crying out he'd say it's all a blank i can't do this right now like being very over the top
and it's like no you gotta get it together so you can help like exactly you know You might be where she was.
And they're thinking, your house might have been the place they were going.
So like, yeah, we do need you to be a part of this whole thing.
Exactly. So frustrated, Emma called Maritza in hopes that she could provide any more concrete answers.
But when she asked what time Margaret and Paul had left the house, she's like, so they got to your house.
And Maritza and Matthew were like, yeah, we had dinner.
So Emma's like, OK, what time did they leave?
Maritza was super vague and told Emma she couldn't remember.
and emma's like do you have like any kind of time frame like 9 10 11 anything maritza's like yeah i don't know and then before emma could ask anything else she said maritza said is maddie there tell him to come home i have a headache and then just hung up are you kidding me nope so emma was like what the fuck okay no so the detectives at the scene were really only slightly more successful in getting any kind of information from Matthew, he explained to them that, yup, he did have Margaret and Paul at the house for dinner.
He's at around 9 .45.
He walked them to their car and he waved at them as they drove away, like the sweet, sweet son he was.
Oh boy. However, when they pressed for more information, he started becoming irrationally emotional again and said, I can't handle this, and then just left and went home.
Like, dude, come on.
It's like, you're not helping here at all.
You're not helping?
And why are you not helping?
Yeah. Yeah. Later that evening, after the Wales siblings, Sons Matthew, had gathered at Prudence's house, they started discussing where their mother and Paul could be.
And Damian Wells repeatedly called Matthew's house.
Like they're all sitting there trying to come up with anything.
And they're like, should we ask Matthew?
But they're calling Matthew and getting no reply.
He's not even answering his phone at this point.
That's weird behavior.
And it's like, we're calling you.
We could have found mom and dad.
Like, why are you not right by the phone?
You have no idea. Mom and paul excuse me yeah and the more they talked and particularly when matthew's name came up damien started to get the feeling that his brother's dramatic performance at their mom's house might have been his clumsy attempt to hide something he's like he just had like a an innate feeling he's like something's really something's off here so he called detective constable sheehan to report his suspicions about matthew and he was like can you just send an officer over there we're not able to get a hold of him can you just like check out what's going yeah and they were like sure
so when they reached it uh matthew and maritza's house the officers found the place completely dark like all the lights off after they rang the bell several times they finally roused the couple and were allowed inside where they talked very briefly in the kitchen they explained that damien had asked the detectives to come check on him since matthew just stopped answering his phone out of nowhere and matthew was like oh yeah i I took a sleeping pill and I just went to bed.
So no one knows where your parents are.
You're acting devastated by this fact.
And you took a sleeping pill?
What if they find them?
Exactly. Like to me, that's weird. I'd be sitting there staring at that phone.
Same. He told the officers, I'm just a bit upset and concerned about my mother, you know?
But despite what he was saying, the officers there felt a complete lack of sincerity.
and they also found it curious that he kept bringing up margaret which obviously she's his mother but he's not saying anything about paul and remember he doesn't feel the same way about paul that his siblings do he grew up with paul pretty much as his father yeah so the next day april 9th the family gathered again this time with matthew and maritza in attendance and matthew's theatrical displays of emotion started pretty much right upon arrival immediately after sitting Sitting on the couch, he started crying and howling, asking where's my mama.
But if they questioned the sincerity of his performance the first time, the rest of the Will siblings certainly didn't believe him this time.
No. Emma said, unfortunately, I could show him no affection because really, I smelled a rat.
Wow. I think she's the baddest bitch. I was just gonna say she is a bad bitch. She's like, I've been onto this since the start.
And I just love that she's like, unfortunately, I could share no affection with him.
I'm like, that's bullshit.
She's like, sorry, you couldn't do it.
Yeah, she's like, sorry.
She's giving, like, shiv from Succession, isn't she?
God, I miss Succession.
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Now, like I said, the whales' children were not the only ones growing suspicious of Matthew.
Investigators already were, and now, like, that they're all, they're seeing him too, like, sitting beside his siblings, and in comparison, they're like, yeah they're like something's off just a miss here and they're starting now to think that he might have had something to do with margaret and paul's disappearance neither margaret or paul were in like super great physical health and they wouldn't have been able to travel at the time with all their without all their medications and essential items which were still at the house nothing of value had been taken from the house and neither margaret
or paul's bank accounts or credit cards had been accessed since the disappearance, so a kidnapping seemed highly unlikely.
And given both of those facts, the missing persons unit ended up handing the case over to the homicide squad on the assumption that the pair were very unlikely to be alive at this point, which, that's heartbreaking.
Now, based on the suspicions of the family and the officers who investigated the initial report, detectives started looking a little bit deeper into Matthew and Maritza almost immediately.
And among the the first things they learned was that their clothing boutique wasn't doing terribly but it was hardly a financial success and just a few months after opening their expenses outweighed the profits by 52 000 and this does seem like a money motivated crime in fact things that actually become so dire that they started about they started talking about selling the boutique and opening a cafe instead thinking that would be a more stable business and now detectives are hearing like yeah all of all of this turmoil regarding business yeah this isn't looking good so on the morning of april
9th matthew arrived at the malvern police department to be interviewed and he brought these long handwritten notes of the conversation that he had with his mom and paul on the night of their disappearance he had these like weird transcripts that he wrote up okay like the other times that they tried to interview him everything seemed very over overprepared, super performative, and none of it was helpful.
And meanwhile, other detectives paid a visit to Maritza at the store and they were surprised to find that even though she had only been made notified of their intention to speak with her like a few hours before that, she had already prepped a five -page statement detailing her dinner with the missing couple.
A five -page statement wow like you you can look at that one of two ways obviously like i hate to be the devil's advocate here but that's what we do yeah you could look at that as like she's like i have to cover my ass because i have nothing to do with this and i want to be prepared and have answers to everything or you could say that is fucking suspicious as fuck why would you take the time to do that if you're innocent you can 100 look at it both of those ways you can and it's like both ways make makes sense they do you could argue both it's true personally i think it's fucking weird knowing
i know all the details knowing what you know for you to say it's weird it's weird exactly so according to maritza and her five -page statement they had eaten dinner with margaret and paul they drank one bottle of wine after which paul and margaret played with their grandson for a while looked through some recent photos and then left around 9 45 p .m the statement also claimed that she and matthew had always gotten along fine with the rest of the wales family but she did say quote quote, mom was a bit standoffish.
She was a bit snobby.
Matthew and I never had any real problems with the other sons or daughters.
She was like, Margaret was not the coolest. Interesting.
I didn't have any, and she says I didn't have any problems with the other sons or daughters.
Which like, maybe she didn't realize that she did, but they didn't sound like they liked her very much. I was going to say, it doesn't sound like it was a big happy.
But it could have been that they just like acted fake in the presence.
Yeah, maybe. Who knows?
Because, you know, we all do that.
But the next day, April 10th, the Malvern detectives held their first press conference, flanked on both sides by several of the whale's children.
Detective Inspector Brian Ricks, which I think is just such a cool name.
That is a cool name.
Brian Ricks. He told reporters, There seems to be no known reason as to why these people have disappeared the way they have. These are people you wouldn't class as at risk of going missing.
They're retired people who have great family support.
It is completely out of character.
And within a few hours of airing, police started receiving tips, trips including one from a man who lived a pretty short distance from margaret and paul and he actually thought that he had found their missing mercedes -benz the caller explained that he had been out walking his dog on the night of april 6th and he noticed a silver mercedes parked along the road around the corner from his house and this stuck out to him because it looked obviously i mean it's a mercedes it looks super expensive yeah and it didn't have a parking sticker so he knew the owner wasn't a local resident and this was just
like a very random place to park your car yeah for a long time and he said he probably would have forgotten all about it but that the car was still there every time he went back out to walk his dog so when he heard the description of the car on the news he went back and checked the license plate and sure enough it was a match for margaret's missing car oh imagine figuring that out like you've seen this car every day on your walk and then you just go to check and you're like oh that's the car that's haunted.
There's actually a super haunting detail that we'll get to later on that like could be a case of like um the eyewitness not working out so well or like a strange paranormal aspect depending on how you look at it.
Interesting. But crime scene technicians searched the vehicle and swapped for DNA and when they attempted to lift fingerprints from the steering wheel there was nothing to be lifted.
Oh. Whoever drove the car and left it on the street had been wearing wearing gloves and obviously wiped the steering wheel clean so that's not good no that's creepy as fuck the search of the car in the surrounding area also didn't turn up any additional evidence whatsoever but during their canvas of the neighborhood investigators spoke with a lot of additional residents who said they had seen the car parked on the street and actually were able to place it there as early as april 5th oh which makes sense because they went missing the night of the fourth yeah now none of the whale's children could think
of any reason why their mom's car would have been found in that neighborhood.
As far as they knew, she didn't know anybody that lived there, nothing like that.
And meanwhile, at Matthew and Maritza's house, Sergeant Stephen Waddell questioned Matthew about his relationship with Paul, and he wanted to ask some follow -up questions about the night that his parents went missing.
So that one detective is doing that, while two other detectives are looking around the house.
In the garage, detectives who were searching the house noticed that there was a strong chemical smell coming from Matthew's car car on the ground around it.
And with Matthew's permission, technicians searched his car and performed a number of tests, but ultimately found nothing of interest other than that chemical smell, which was strange, but it's in a garage.
So yeah, I mean, yeah, who knows?
Weeks passed with really little progress in the case until finally on April 29th, detectives got a call from a ranger at the yara state forest who had made a really terrible discovery ranger uh john gwilt was working on track three he was marking spots where a series of large boulders were going to be placed alongside of the path and he discovered a mound of freshly turned dirt just a few yards off the path initially he thought it was a lyrebird nest and he didn't want to disturb the birds so he just left it alone and kind of went about his day yeah but throughout the day he just kept thinking
about it and something about it just didn't seem right to him and it was your gut that's the thing it was nagging at him all afternoon so he was like i want to go back and take a take another look at that people are amazing when you really think about it isn't it weird that like you see a mound of dirt and you're like oh that's probably a bird's nest perfect explanation but then something and you can't explain what it is yeah like what is it that that tells us something is wrong.
That's what's so fascinating.
It's like, because a lot of us have dealt with that.
When your gut is just telling you something else.
It's interesting. And we've all felt that feeling.
And it's like, what the fuck is that feeling?
Why do we have those kind of instincts?
Like, it's weird. It's like, I don't know.
Like evolution or some shit.
It's got to be. It's very interesting.
It is. That's the thing.
Trust your gut, everyone.
Trust your gut, always.
Old as fuck. He actually, I really respect how he went about this.
Because he trusted his gut.
and he was smart. He actually went with another ranger.
He's like, I'm not going to look at this alone.
I should bring someone else.
Because if this happens to be something, I have a witness here.
Right. We're not going to fuck something up.
Exactly. So he took this other ranger and they went back to the spot to take a closer look and they used a rake and started pulling away the loose dirt until they uncovered and this is really grisly and just like fucked up.
Oh jeez. They found three large cinder blocks chained together which appeared to be holding down a deflated child swimming swimming pool what the fuck thinking they discovered a trash pile they just kept digging and moving more removing more debris and they quickly hit what appeared to be a cloth bag held closed with another chain it was only when the rake ripped the cloth that a smell hit them both and they both realized that they had discovered at least one body oh my god so obviously they called the police technicians come rushing to the scene and they worked late into the the evening to remove
two bodies and when they were finally unearthed they were informally identified as margaret wales king and paul king holy shit so they continued working throughout the evening and into the morning and dr malcolm dodd started his examination with paul's body once he got him into the morgue after removing the cloth sack from around his head the doctor found that quote the neck and head were just were covered with bloodied green cloth gathered together in a knot under the right jaw holy shit margaret's body had been similarly wrapped with and tied up with ropes and when they were removed she also had
a long strip of green cloth wrapped and tied around her neck both bodies were discovered in a really advanced state of decomp which obviously made it very difficult for them to find any obvious signs of trauma because they're trying to figure out like where they strangled where they yeah like what happened it's hard to to tell their stomach contents had undergone minimal digestion meaning they were both killed very soon after eating dinner at matthew and maritza's house oh shit despite the advanced decomposition dr dodd was eventually able to identify the cause of death for paul as blunt force
trauma to the head with also signs of strangulation and margaret as as asphyxiation but she did note that there was bruising on margaret's body which led him to believe that but she had also been rendered unconscious before she was strangled.
Hit somehow. Holy shit.
Later, blood tests would show that both Paul and Margaret had consumed normal levels of alcohol, paracetamol, I think it is.
It's acetaminophen in the U .S., so it's like Tylenol, and codeine prior to dying.
So pretty, like, normal stuff.
Yeah, you said they weren't in the best of health.
So I'm sure they were taking that kind of stuff.
Yep. So later that morning, Sergeant Waddell notified the family of the discovery, which must have been absolutely horrifying and a formal identification was made which was confirmed then by a forensic or uh odontologist excuse me detective spent nearly an hour with the family and during that time matthew was there and waddell pulled him aside and handed him a search warrant for his home and asked if he would accompany them back to the house immediately so that they could conduct their search at the house they found among other things a large post hole shovel a set of d shackles like those found
on the cement blocks a ball of green twine that matched the bindings on the bodies an inflatable child's raft that appeared to match the small deflated pool discovered on the bodies that is so isn't that something about that just turns my this whole thing is horrifying but like that just turns my stomach that's his two -year -old child's pool little pool that he used and those are his grandparents underneath it who like that's that just and in matthew and marie's bedroom detectives also discovered that the quilts and sheets on the bed were similar in color and fabric to that which the bodies were wrapped
in before they were buried so they're like we have everything yeah they're like oh no for you yeah the announcement of the the discovery of Margaret and Paul's body set off a media frenzy as reporters clamored to get more information on the story.
In his statement to the press, Detective Sergeant Charlie Bazzina said of the area in which the bodies were found, given the popularity of the area, you would think that if a person is aware of the area, they would have made a lot more effort to get further into the bush or certainly get away from the track.
Because they were found like right off of a track yeah in a forest and it was not lost on anybody that the investigators seemed particularly interested in margaret's son and paul's stepson matthew and his wife maritza and they knew that they had been searching the home on multiple occasions since the discovery was made so the media knows what's going on here of course publicly the murders of margaret and paul which the press dubbed the society murders like i said in the beginning were touted as a total mystery mystery but unaware that the couple had been murdered the night they went missing several
people actually came forward saying that they saw them at various points in the days after their disappearance which would have been impossible that's always fascinating this for some reason and like we say it all the time like eyewitness testimony is so unreliable and can be so flawed but for some reason reading this i was like i don't know if people are lying like it It just feels a little paranormal to me.
A man who lived in the area where the car was found told reporters he saw Margaret return to the car several times in the week that it was parked in the neighborhood.
He was like, I saw her there multiple times.
And also, like, why would he say, you know what I mean?
Like, that just seemed, I mean, people do weird shit.
They do. So it's not like out of the realm of possibility that people are just making shit up.
Right. But these, some of these, like, that's a weird one to make up.
Right. And it's like, it's not like you saw her one time and you're like, no, I saw her one time.
To say several times.
multiple times and he told the daily telegraph she was well groomed and neat she locked the car and looked up at me it wasn't a passing glance it was a searching stare in in hindsight it was a bit weird see that feels like a real like i get chills like he saw that and it's like he's saying like she locked eyes with me and it i'm like i might sound crazy but to me that sounds like margaret is like pay attention to this like pay attention to this car you know what I mean you know what's happening like something has happened to me and like I'm gonna have a hand in having it be solved I mean crazier
things have happened for all my paranormal friends here yeah I know you're sitting here feeling this I just feel that way there are some goosebumps I do too like because that is strange it's strange the fact that and again who knows this person could be lying just for like telling what he thinks is a fun story but he the fact that he said it wasn't a passing glance it was a searching stare that's very interesting right but that's just the little blip that i was talking about regardless of the mystery suspicion among the locals and the press was starting now frequently to fall on matthew and maritza according
to author hillary bonnie who i've mentioned a few times she actually wrote the book the society murders it's a really good book i definitely recommend it she said as soon as it became clear that the bodies were those of margaret and paul and that matthew's house had been searched by the police reporters and photographers set up camp outside matthew's house so this was like a huge case in australia yeah and if they couldn't find any peace at home things were twice as bad whenever matthew and his wife went out people stared pointed hurled questions at them they were followed like this was not good
yeah but the case against matthew however speculative or circumstantial was really surprisingly strong he and his wife like we know had been the last two people to see his parents alive their and their bodies were discovered along with evidence connecting them back to his house yeah then you put that up with his disingenuous and very theatrical reactions to the news of the deaths that also aroused suspicions among even the people who knew him best yeah and all of the children in the whales family which is strange right and of all those children he was the one who actually would have benefited most
and most immediately from the deaths.
That's very true. And as they dug, excuse me, and the more they dug, the more suspicious both Matthew and Maritza looked.
Their stories were too similar, too rehearsed, too convenient.
So on May 7th, the funeral was held for Paul and Margaret, where Matthew repeated his performance of the hysterical grieving son.
And there was even more animosity between the Wills children at this point, because at this point literally like they're being buried and matthew is refusing to submit a dna sample to investigators come on when emma pressed her brother for a reason why he would not do everything he could to find the killer he said i'm protecting my family and then burst into tears so they were like what the fuck does that mean yeah you it's like this is your family man where We're your family.
Like, why aren't you helping us?
Mom is your family.
Paul is, like, your family.
Hello? As Matthew and Maritza attempted to go about their lives after this, the press continued, like I said, following them everywhere, unable to ignore the fact that both of them seemed to be the focus of the investigation.
But while they tried to remain united, things between Matthew and Maritza were very much beginning to break apart.
His behavior had become super erotic and unpredictable, unpredictable, and Maritza started to worry that she was putting herself at considerable risk by continuing to stand by Matthew.
And they have a child.
And they have a child.
So on May 7th, she herself was brought in for more questioning, and the gravity of the situation really started sinking in on this day.
And this has been a month now, like a little over a month that they've been dealing with this and going through this.
So a few days later, on the advice of her counsel, council maritza called inspector brian ricks to set up a meeting with him oh boy when they all sat down together at the station ricks went out of his way he was like oh it's super cool that you're in here but i'm doing you a favor i'm doing both of you guys a favor he said we don't need any help he's like he's like i got him i know who the killer is but whatever like but tell us what you need to tell me yep so not wanting to blow their chance at immunity though maritza immediately immediately launched into her version of events the couple had
been at their home for dinner margaret and paul had come over for dinner she said and at the end of the night something happened she said matthew hit his mother and stepfather over the back of the head a few times then stacked their bodies up against the front fence in the dirt he left them there a day and buried them oh my god so it's like we invited them over for dinner we they ate dinner together that night don't forget they all hadn't digested their food together and ate dinner presumably they hadn't digested their food and then at some point he just went up and hit them over the back of the head
that's the thing that's even more concerning is she's just like and at some point it's like he just wailed them over the head though and it's like also where was your child during this did your child see this happen you so hope like asleep you so hope and remember they're over there celebrating that the fact that their grandson just turned two and that this is a new townhouse for Maritza and Matthew like they're celebrating this family this is fucked up it's fucked but she signed that statement summarizing everything she had seen that night and how is she staying quiet?
I don't know she said she was scared I mean yeah I'm sure she was yikes but that was all investigators needed to get a warrant for Matthew's arrest so on the morning of May 11th a team of detectives and patrol officers arrived at the home and served the arrest warrant.
Given his behavior and history of instability, there was actually considerable concern that he might try to hurt himself or somebody else.
But when they explained the situation and asked whether or not he understood what he was under arrest for, he just said yes and went willingly, which really nobody expected.
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back at the precinct in melbourne matthew almost almost seemed relieved that the entire charade had finally come to an end wow which is just really upsetting so strange it didn't take very long before he started to explain what happened on the night of the murders he said and he told detectives once maritza went upstairs so you hope that with that was to put the child to bed yeah Yeah, you hope that.
He said once Maritza went upstairs, mom and I went outside with Paul and I hit them with a block of wood on the back of the neck.
He even went so far as to draw diagrams for the investigators indicating where they'd been standing in the driveway when this happened and where the bloodstains had been before he cleaned everything up.
From there, things really happened more or less as Maritza explained it.
He choked Paul and his mother with those strips of fabric that had been found around their necks, and then he lifted their bodies by the fence in order to hide them until the morning the next morning he grabbed a bed sheet ripped it into strips that he used to cover their faces because he didn't want to see their expressions because he's a vicious coward and then he grabbed his son's deflated kiddie pool and wrapped their bodies up with it with the bodies hidden from sight he went down the road to the gas station and rented a small trailer into which he loaded the bodies and pushed the trailer
into the yard out of view for many neighbors from there he went to the hardware store and purchased the red and white sash cord that had been found wrapped around the bodies as well as the d shackles and concrete blocks found on top of their bodies when they were unearthed wow you the the chain that he has left that's the thing like that is just leaving breadcrumbs everywhere later that day he said after maritza returned home to take care of their son because remember he's the primary caretaker for their son she goes and runs the store so there are just two dead bodies who happen to be this child's
grandparents sitting outside while this man is taking care of his son like really think about that wow i don't really want to you know don't let but like yeah really take that into consideration to see how much of a man how much of a monster this man is but later that day when maritza got home to take over care of their son Matthew wrapped his parents' bodies in that old quilt cover and then loaded them into the trailer and drove out to the Arra Ranges.
He said his original plan...
This is so cold -blooded.
This is his mom. This is so cold -blooded.
And his stepdad, who he had grown up with since he was seven.
Which is like, I know you sit there and you're like, obviously there was a lot of stuff going on in this family and everything like that.
And we were saying like, oh, that was kind of shitty that they got together after they were best friends.
no one fucking deserves that like well and guess what there was four other children that went through the same shit that's the thing it's like so that's not an excuse not an excuse at all at all oh that's awful he said his original plan had been to drop their bodies into water and weigh them down that's what the cinder blocks were for uh but he worried that they might float to the surface which i was like how would they with cinder blocks they like broke free of it i guess somehow but he said for that for that reason that he was worried he decided to bury them in the forest instead after listening
to matthew's story he's like okay like the sergeant is like i i know that this is how this all happened but why why did this happen because he's like we went outside after eating dinner and i hit them both with a thing of wood and it's like that escalated to that like quickly you are skipping parts of this story like you didn't did you just walk outside side and you immediately hit them both with wood.
That's kind of what it sounds like.
Or there was no argument, there was no nothing.
Without hesitation, he replied, because there's so much animosity and hurt between my mother and myself, and then just trailed off.
Wow. It took some time and he backtracked a lot.
He got confused, but eventually he explained the motive more in depth.
He said he had very conflicting feelings when it came to his mom.
He said he loved loved her and relied on her for oh so many things yeah but he also resented the way he felt that she used her wealth to dominate and manipulate others specifically her children he blamed her for alienating him from the rest of his family and the resentment and anger he said was just building in him for years so you know what remove yourself from her go to therapy remove yourself from her life if you don't like her and you don't like how she operates and you think that she's you know holding shit over your head and stuff remove yourself yeah but then you have access to any of her
money exactly so it's like that doesn't check out my friend exactly but he said things came to a head a few weeks before the murders when they got into an argument over her decision to sell a vacation property that was hers in queensland that was connected to the will that she had set up several years earlier according to that will the siblings would receive an equal share of her estate which is her estate that she owns yeah she's leaving to them if anything happens but it would go into a trust and they all according to matthew felt like this was her way of continuing to control their lives and treat them
as children even once she was gone i swear the the like move is to never tell to tell your kids that you don't have a will yeah honestly anything about your will is just going into the wind like just be like you get nothing i'm just gonna be like we don't have so it's not worth it because i'm not you're not getting anything no don't just be like i don't have the will no i don't have one i don't have one sorry good luck like just because you hear about this shit and you're like people killing their parents over wills it's crazy over what they get when they die it is like mind -boggling scary it
really is scary it's like holy shit you just hope that you you know your child's not a sociopath i guess it's like what kind of roll of the dice is that seriously it's it's people are wild but he said the fact that he just kept thinking about the sale of that property and the fact that that it was going into a trust and like why does it matter that it's going into a trust i don't get i don't get it but i'm glad i don't get it he felt like that was her control over the situation and he was so tired of her in his own words controlling these situations and it was was like at that point that he was like
you know what i want to kill her like he started thinking about killing her at that point wild because it's like that's not your money no it's not that's not yours no that's theirs that's her estate she can do like with whatever the fuck she wants with it that's the thing and it's like she bought it she earned it yeah you can't get mad man so that's her money yeah what you think she should be doing with it is pretty irrelevant exactly you're her her it's not yours that's the way it is and it's like you are making your own money like that's what's so rough is like you wonder what because it's like
obviously he is a very disturbed human being from the start something probably would have happened i think i think as well if it wasn't his parents who knows what it would have been if he can do that what the fuck was that nothing else else in this room shook what was that it was something over here i told you there was a paranormal aspect to this case i wonder if you can hear that in the recording because that was fucking terrifying if you can hear that in the recording keep this in because that was fucking terrifying that was weird i don't know what there's a shelf behind me everybody on the wall
i don't know if you could have heard that if you you know whatever if not we'll cut this there's a a shelf behind me on the wall and it has candles but they're not lit they're not lit just candles and such mainly and as i was talking it almost sounded like a woodpecker something it was like behind me and then it just stopped and nothing else in this room did that the garage door didn't open it like nothing shook in this room like you know like neither of us are even like we're not not even moving i'm not moving i'm sitting on a couch no no we both heard that or it sounded like almost like somebody
dropping a coin or something yeah like like something like that yeah that was bizarre that just like threw me totally off no that was bizarre guilty but all that to say this was her money she could do whatever she wanted yeah and i think and i think i was saying now i remember i was like sorry my brain just lost uh obviously something likely bad would would have happened oh yes with Matthew as the the culprit there I think you know he had a lot there was a lot of signs that's something and if you're capable of doing that yeah you're capable of doing a lot of things agreed but you do wonder if he
didn't have that hand thing and he was able to continue working I wondered that and owning that salon if it would have changed because I I always wonder if, like, something like that can lead someone away from those thoughts or instincts that they have. Like finding a passion.
When they have something that they are doing.
Pouring their energy into.
Pouring all their energy into.
I do wonder that. I have no basis for any of that.
You know what I mean?
Like, I don't know what research there is on that.
I'd love to look it up.
That would be interesting.
I thought the same thing, though.
But you do wonder that, if you didn't have to close that down and didn't have to shift. Yeah.
yeah because he was bringing considerable money too yeah like he was kind of supporting himself more at least and and he probably felt a little more fulfilled because he was running a business and you know he he was doing it well by all accounts so it's like he had clients that relied on him and that were loyal to him like you wonder you know and i know it's rough to look back like that because you can't go back you can't change it shift it but you just wonder like would that That would have been a different thing.
Outcome. You and I were talking about this yesterday.
Like it really is crazy how one choice or one circumstance in your life can change the entire course of your life.
Like if you don't go somewhere someday, you don't meet somebody and you don't end up here.
Yeah. You know, like something as simple like we were talking about, like breaking up with a boyfriend.
Yes. That's like no good.
You know, that like you're just like, yeah, he's shitty.
And if you had stayed with that person or like a girlfriend and you'd stay with that person, it could alter the total course of your life.
like totally different life you could have exactly and it's one decision that you make people could have not entered your life opportunities who you are as a person little tiny choices and the universe is always trying to tell you I totally believe that but I do wonder it's really sad because I wonder if Margaret and Paul would still be here I know that's sad I really feel for that family I do too because they probably sit there and ask themselves that question and a myriad of other questions well it seems like they've just gone through a lot you know like that's they've gone through too much
as a family agreed for it all to end that way agreed absolutely and that's the thing for it all the shoulder to end that way yeah so waddell listened patiently sergeant waddell and then asked if matthew's plan had been just to kill his mother because he just said i was that's when i started thinking about killing my mom he said why not do do it when Paul wasn't around like why do you why did you also feel the need to kill Paul and Matthew replied I quite like Paul but at the same time he destroyed my mother and father's relationship too oh which is just so that's a black and white answer but it's
so gray because he's starting it off with I actually like that guy but I killed him but I killed him violently but I actually do quite like him like that's really fucked up and a trigger warning for sexual abuse.
Later, Matthew would elaborate on his reason for killing Paul.
He claimed that Paul had sexually abused him as a child.
A short time before the murders, he said he felt very strongly that Paul had actually been abusing his son, too, Matthew's son.
Unfortunately, I don't have enough information to say whether or not that's true, but that's what he said.
That's the only only thing i know wow so if that is the case that is entirely fucked up but at the same time it is not a reason for murdering someone and it's also paul can't isn't here to to say defend that in any way exactly shape or form or to prove himself innocent or you know so i don't want to go into that too much but like he did say that that's that's something he said that he alleges right you know wow yeah so investigators continue to build their case against matthew and in the the weeks and months that followed, collecting evidence to corroborate his admission.
They confirmed that Margaret Wales King had indeed changed her will, just like he said, to have greater control over the inheritance left to her children by her father.
And while most of the children objected to her decision, that was true, they all were financially independent adults and saw no reason for this little matter in the grand scheme of things to ruin their relationship with her.
Yeah. So they were all they all were seemingly ticked off by it, but weren't going to let it blow over into this big thing.
But Matthew, on the other hand, like we were saying, still relied very heavily on Paul and Margaret for financial and emotional help.
So he believed that they turned to him during the sale of that Queensland property that kind of changed everything because this decision of changing the will actually had to be approved by one of the children and they went to him for approval and Matthew felt like his mom assumed he would be too stupid to realize what he was signing.
So that's where all this animosity and anger led up.
Both during and after his confession though, Matthew did insist that Maritza had had nothing to do with the murders and actually had been asleep in bed when they happened.
So he said that she only learned about it the following day.
And he told the police she cried, she shook, she dry -ratched, she retreated to her bed and hid under the covers.
Oh, wow. So he makes it sound like she was like scared of him at this point and was horrified.
And I'm glad if that's the case that he was honest about that and didn't try to throw her under the bus as well if she had nothing to do with it, you know?
Agreed. And the days and weeks after the murder, Matthew kept telling his wife that he was going to turn himself into the police, but he wanted to make sure that she and their son were protected.
So I'm not claiming to understand why Maritza didn't go to the police, but you can see, I guess, that she, one, was afraid, and two, thought that her husband was going to turn himself in at some point.
Yeah. I mean, I'm, again, I can't claim I've ever been in that situation.
So I'm not going to sit here and be like, well, she definitely should have done this.
Exactly. It just would have been super awesome if she could have told this ahead of time.
But again, holy shit, what a position to be in.
Exactly. And he sounded like he was scary.
Yeah. So, and she has a child to think about.
Right. Yeah. So her account, Maritza's account of things more or less confirmed that while she stood by her husband and remained silent she did want to go to the police from the moment she had learned what she what matthew had done she told police i was brought up so good i can't believe this shit is happening to me i just want to die i'm so tired it's like a nightmare oh so you just that rocks your soul a little bit to hear like you know because it sounds like she was brought up in a really nice family yeah like they got out of so much shit themselves and then look what she finds herself and she
finds herself wrapped up in this and you you can tell she's for her to be be like, I just want to die.
Like, this is awful.
This is horrible. She's a mother.
She's, you know, damn, that's really sad.
So on October 17th, 2002, Matthew Wills appeared before a judge in Melbourne Magistrates Court, where he pleaded guilty to two counts of first degree murder.
At the same time, Maritza pleaded guilty to one count of perverting the course of justice and was able to postpone.
Several months later, Matthew appeared before the Supreme Court in Melbourne, where he was sentenced to 30 years in prison, with a minimum of 24 years being Wow.
For the perversion of justice charge, Maritza was actually given a two -year suspended sentence, as the judge did not believe that she played any role in the murders.
The judge, who was John Coltrane, said, Well, that's good.
Now, initially, Matthew was sent to the Lawton Prison, which is a low -security prison in in Victoria, where he arrived with a trailer that was hauling a special post -traumatic mattress for an injured back that he had.
At first, he struggled to adapt to prison life and continued very volatile behavior, and that eventually got him transferred to HM Prison Barwon, which is a maximum security in Victoria, maximum security prison in Victoria.
Oh, damn. Since arriving there, he is said to have demonstrated a better ability to control his anger, and prison officials report that he's a model prisoner there.
In recent years, it's said that he has dedicated his time to self -improvement, he's enrolled in educational classes, taken a job in the prison barbershop, and has never been a problem for anyone at this maximum security facility.
I wonder if they just, like, don't deal with your shit.
I was just going to say, at this maximum security facility.
He is eligible for parole in 2026, and so far he's given officials no reason to deny him.
Okay, yeah. Now, in 2007, Maritza Wales actually appeared in the press again when she was arrested and charged with grand theft after stealing an $8 ,000 ring from the locker rooms at the Kew swimming pool and then pawning it for $400.
when she was brought before the judge at the melbourne magistrate's court she pleaded guilty to one count of theft and one count of obtaining property by deception her loyal to her lawyer told the judge she saw it she made a split -second decision and that split -second decision was wrong and has had serious consequences for her damn she was sentenced to six weeks in jail suspended for 12 months and was ordered to repay four hundred dollars to the pawn shop and the pawn shop was ordered to return the ring to the rightful owner wow and that altogether is the case of the society murders it is so traumatic
that is so traumatic and it is absolutely wild to me that he could be up for parole after murdering his parents and in like cold blood like murdering two people that are the closest people like some of the closest people to you seemingly out of of nowhere like just over a financial dispute over like animosity because of a will and it's like he acted so poorly at one prison a low security prison that they were like we can't have this going on now he's acting well at a maximum security and they're like well look at that and it's like okay that's not really a good indication of how he's going to
be in the world right exactly we gotta be thinking here like obviously we talk about like rehabilitation for sure and you hope that it's possible would hope but but oh boy it's just saying we went i guess we'll find out i guess so yeah so in the meantime we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but that's so weird that you murder your parents over their will because guess what none of that money is yours anyway yeah it's not yours man bye so sorry i just burped how dare you if you like morbid you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining wondery plus us in the Wondery app
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