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Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena.
I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
blue it is morbid yeah it's super morbid because um it's part two right yeah it's part two of alvin and judy neely two fucking monstrosities yeah this is it's a rough one i hope you guys were how you doing after part one yeah you okay i know it's just like this one it's a there's not a large you know body count here but my goodness the one the victims are just first like to have them be children yeah and the way they do it is just like nothing it really bothered me did they go after another teenager slash child in this one um no okay but it's another it's another young woman okay it's bad I mean it's
sad all the way around yeah it really is so when we last left you police had found Lisa Millican's body 13 year old Lisa Millican yeah who was lured away from a mall when she was on an outing with a group from a home for neglected and abandoned girls that's so terrible and she was held for a manner I think it I believe it was four days right because they were going to different motels and she was repeatedly sexually abused she was I mean she was held there who knows what else happened right and she was eventually injected with basically cleaning dishwashing products cleaning products by Judy Neely
and six times and then thrown into a canyon because after being in shot in the chest do they know were they able to determine when she had been injecting her with the cleaning products they believe it was when she was tied to the tree that same day outside and she didn't die right away so she was shot in the chest and thrown over the canyon thank god yeah it's horrific it's like unthinkable truly so that's where we left you which is a pretty horrible note to leave you on investigators really did do their due diligence in this they were trying their hardest they were going after every lead when we
talked to you in part 1 all the departments are working together right now which is great and it's going to help them stop this quicker but unfortunately not quick enough for someone else to die okay uh so on the afternoon of october 3rd diane bobo was on her way to work at a hardy's restaurant in rome um unfortunately she ran out of gas near the thornwood school and and it was like this whole ordeal she went through where it was like she ran out of gas and then she tried to push the car and then she like ended up stalling in the middle of like this intersection she had to push the truck off the road
just like going just a bad morning she called her husband from a pay phone and then she sat on the curb and just waited for him to come she was like you know i gave it my all this thing is not starting so i need help so while she's waiting she's by herself she's just waiting on the curb and Diane was approached by a young woman she'd never seen before.
She later, so as Diane was later able to describe this, so Diane is going to be okay.
She would later describe this young woman as wearing clothes, quote, that looked too big for her and appeared as if she'd been wearing them for several days.
So basically Judy always looks foul when she walks up to people, which I think is by design as well as just by nature.
Is she trying to look destitute?
I think she's trying to look desperate for help.
Yeah. She's trying because she looks younger.
She is younger. Yeah.
So she's trying to walk up looking like somebody that's in real trouble.
And needs your help.
Somebody will basically preying on the goodness of others.
Yeah, that's always good.
And the girl said to her, don't I know you?
Aren't you Patricia Alexander?
And Diane was like, I am not Patricia, nor am I Alexander.
I am neither of those things.
And she was like, I was just hoping that she would just go away.
Like, I didn't want I had a shit start to my day.
She's like, I don't need this.
I'm not Patricia Alexander.
Please go away. Fuck off.
But this girl kept looking at her and she kept talking to her.
And Diane was like, can you please fucking go away?
Like, I'm just waiting for it.
Like, I don't want to deal with this.
And she told Diane that she had been out riding around and she was kind of lonely.
So she thought maybe Diane wanted to go for a drive with her.
And Diane was like, on no planet would I want to do that.
And by no situation would I want to do that.
but she said also she just seemed off something about her she said her vibes were horrific well somebody's asking you like you know I'm just bored I wanted to go for a drive with someone run the fucking other way yeah get out of there she said the vibes were just dirty and then she looked over at the girl's car and she saw a child in the car because remember Remember, Judy has children.
Oh, fuck. I literally forgot that.
I was like, why does she have a child?
Yep. And she said, but this girl was telling me she was alone.
And she's lonely. And she's lonely.
But there's a kid in the car.
And she was very – and Diane was like, listen, no, I'm good.
And she was like, my car just broke down.
I got to go to work.
I'm not driving around with you.
And my husband is coming, so piss off.
And so Judy was like, well, no, I can give you a ride to work.
Like, why don't you just get in my car?
I'll give you a ride to work.
and Diane was like, listen, I just called my husband.
He's on his way. And the girl got even more persistent and was like, get in my car.
You should get in my car.
And Diane was like, no. And she finally got super firm with her and was like, no, bitch. Like, leave my presence.
I don't want to deal with this.
And finally the girl walked away and went back to her car.
And she drove off right as Diane's husband husband pulled up on his motorcycle.
Wow. Thank goodness.
Good timing. So later that evening, John Hancock and his 22 -year -old girlfriend, Janice Chapman, were walking home after visiting Janice's mother.
They're walking on the side of the road when a brown car pulls up next to them.
No, thank you. The young woman driving the car told the couple she was new in town, she didn't know anyone, and she wondered if they wanted to drive around with her for a while.
Sorry, that immediately makes me think of John Mulaney.
I'm new in town. Right?
new in town uh john initially was like no thank you like bye and told the driver that they didn't actually need a ride it's fine like we're good because she was like it looks like you need a ride like i'll bring you where you need to go like we can just you know we'll be friends no but he looked at his girlfriend and janice wanted to go like it was clear so the thing is janice had struggled to make friends she had a lot of social issues in general so john thought that this was was like gonna help oh he was like i just didn't want to discourage her if she was actually looking to like connect with another
human being so he was yeah he was just trying not to like you know right on her parade you know all that burst her bubble yuck her yum you know that's all i got so they got in the car oh no now almost immediately after getting in the car they noticed something was off something was off about the car something was off about the driver the the whole situation and so the driver told had told john and jannis again that she was new in town and didn't know anybody but after they pull away she starts talking to a man over cb radio oh and even like that alone is just so creepy you get in a car with a stranger
and then they start talking to someone over cb radio that that's like so again we say this all the time but something that would happen in a movie and you'd be like too much yeah and it's like this happened what What do you do?
You're already in the car at this point.
So it's like and something about CB radio man ever since joy ride.
Yeah. Joy ride has really and obviously joy ride had not come out yet.
So but they hadn't been driving for long when they crossed over into I think it's Chituga County.
Chituga. Yeah. Okay.
And the girl pulled over to the side of the road beside a very large very very densely forested area.
Oh no. And before he could even ask because he's like what the fuck is going on.
before he can even ask why the hell are we stopping and pulling over next to a forest yeah the girl turns to john and points a gun at him oh no she demands that he get out of the car and by then another car had pulled up and a large man got out oh my god i think we know who these two are and john was so confused had no idea what to do he doesn't know if this girl is going to shoot janice shoot him shoot both of them shoot herself he doesn't know what the hell is happening He's like, she looked serious.
Like this was not a bluff.
And so he did as he was told and he got in the other car.
He was like, I didn't know what else to do.
I didn't want to put anybody in danger.
Who knows what you would do in that situation.
So both cars drive around the area together for hours.
So John is now in Alvin's car.
In Alvin's car. And now Janice is in Judy's car.
They're driving around for hours.
Hours. Until arriving at an isolated area.
John was told to get out of the car he was in.
once he was out of the car the girl got out of the other car and forced john into the woods a little ways then without warning she shot him in the back oh my god and just left him for dead and walked back to the car and drove off with janice inside oh my god just walked him into the woods shot him in the back and left him there and thought he had died yep but clearly the way you're telling the story he did not no and it was not it wasn't very light in the woods like there was no natural light coming in and it was already getting dark right and so judy couldn't really see where she had shot john
okay she just assumed that whatever she had done there it would be enough to at least prevent him from making it out of the woods and that eventually he would just die because he wouldn't be able to find his way out of the woods because it's dark but the bullet had actually gone through his right shoulder oh my god and it had lodged in his scapula oh which is a very painful injury but it's not disabling okay well that's great so i'm not that's not great but but like it's great that he was able to like just play for a minute play dead and then get up exactly because not long after the car pulled
away he was able to make his way out of the woods and he flagged down a truck driver who picked him up and drove him to floyd county medical center And emergency room attendants were able to get the bullet out of his scapula.
Wow. And he was discharged around 4 .30 a .m., just an hour and a half after arriving at the hospital.
And he talked to a sheriff's deputy immediately.
The way this man just got shot, finds his way out of the woods, hitchhikes to the hospital, gets a bullet removed from his shoulder.
And after, like, what, an hour and a half, they're like, OK, bye.
You can leave now. We'll bill your insurance.
And he's like, cool, I'll go to the sheriff's office.
this man lived a whole last life in a matter of a few hours a whole lifetime oh my and and he's sitting there wondering what the fuck is going on yeah he doesn't know where janice is wife or girlfriend his girlfriend girlfriend and so later that morning a sheriff's deputy and an agent from the georgia bureau of investigation the gbi uh they visited john at home to take his statement and at first they were skeptical about what they heard uh he was shot y 'all hey weirdos we need to tell you about something that has completely blown our minds collectively there's a new show called lawless planet
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The reason being that John had a very flat affect and very like monotone way of talking, well because he's just gone fucking through it thank you today we would look at that and go well he's in shock he's disassociating yeah like and also today i think we look at it a lot more we've said this in a few other cases as everyone reacts differently to situations and some people aren't going to react the way that you want them to and that doesn't mean that they're not feeling the feeling it just means that they're not portraying the feeling how you want them to i'm sure like his His lack of emotion combined
with his non -life -threatening injury.
Oh, I'm sure it was all kinds of stuff.
It all just went hand -in -hand.
But it just never occurred to anyone at first that maybe he just talks like this normally.
And maybe he's just telling the truth.
To investigators, it seemed like he was very casual about having been shot and his girlfriend having been abducted.
And there were other parts of the story that stuck them as a little strange at first. Like the couple had gotten into the car really easily.
and like they and they were like you didn't try to overpower the driver at any time at any point like you know she had a gun they were asking questions which they should ask of course obviously because we have seen also cases where someone pretends that they are a victim and they are actually part of the whole thing so it's like i totally get why they were they were doubling down on what they had to say but like you can look at it both ways but regard and again regardless of of what they were suspecting here about John, it did appear as though Janice Chapman had been abducted.
So that had really happened.
So the case was opened and investigation began.
Okay, good. And it was, which I like that they weren't going to allow them being slightly suspicious of John's story to stop them from immediately looking for Janice.
Right. So it was not lost either on the press or the investigators that Janice had been taken just a few days after lisa milliken's body was found in the canyon yeah so detectives were like it feels like this is more than coincidental like these are two young women there's another young woman involved in the abduction story like it feels and that doesn't happen all the time and when rome police played the recordings of the calls to 911 for john the ones that they had gotten from uh the bombing and the shooting all the previous uh he confirmed that the voice of the caller was very similar to that of the woman who abducted
janice um so rome police captain mike ragland told reporters there are a couple of similarities but for every similarity there's a discrepancy so he's just like keeping his you know he's keeping on the ball yeah which i think is good totally now because Because we're always also like hammering on anybody who goes in with like a preconceived narrative or just jumps on a narrative and won't look any other way.
So I think it's safe to say they were going about it in the right way.
Now, in the days that followed, the search for Janice Chapman grew exponentially in size and scope.
I mean, things are starting to puzzle together now.
and by then Diane Bobo our girl who had her truck had broken down and who Judy tried to abduct but she just she was like don't talk to me I'm having a bad day she had reported her weird interaction um and she and she said you know this sounds very similar to the conversation John Hancock told police about and he and Jen you know he and Janice had a very similar interaction with with a very similar looking girl.
So it's like, this doesn't just happen.
And the linkage was further confirmed a day later when a Rome woman called police to report that her 13 -year -old daughter had been approached by a young woman who tried to lure her into a car.
Oh no. So they were trying to go on like a spree.
Absolutely. And the girl's description of the driver and the car matched the same one given by Diane Bobo and John Hancock.
Oh no. so we're we're really going here now yeah and there were other similarities too like the 38 caliber yeah like let's go like come on there was the 38 caliber caliber bullet that was pulled from john hancock's shoulder was a match for the ones in the lisa milliken case i didn't even think of that possibility so they were able to now put these together and now they're looking at john too and being like sorry so it didn't take long before the voice on the 911 recordings about lisa Milican was recognized as being very similar to the voice of the person who placed the calls to Ken Dooley and Linda Adair
several weeks before all this, and it was confirmed by Dooley and Adair in police interviews that this is the same voice.
And to investigators, it was pretty clear that there was at least two people that were terrorizing the Rome community, and now they're kidnapping and trying to murder young women, in some cases succeeding.
Like this has escalated quite quickly.
but the thing was it's like they all seemed similar and they had similarities but they were random as fuck they well that's the thing like the calling and threatening to bomb somebody's house or actually going through with it throwing a bomb at someone's house cocktail shooting into someone's house a man and a woman and then killing abducting and killing a 13 year old girl right attempting to do it to other women of varying ages yep but like younger i guess and then abducting a 22 year old girl and shooting her adult boyfriend it's all it's all very just like willy fucking nilly it's like you
can't figure out that in the worst part about this was like they have all these connective similarities like they can pull this thread through all of them and go yeah we we know this is the same person but we cannot predict what they're gonna do next no who there's no predicting and that's like terrifying absolutely so although they had like we just said very little evidence to go on detectives did believe that their suspects or at least you know the young woman were probably from out of state okay they also believe that there was a real connection to the rome youth development center yes definitely
because and they were like we can't figure it totally out but there's got to be something so they decided which was smart to comb through the records there looking for anyone who matched the composite sketches that they were able to put together from the various witnesses who had had this woman approach them um and they decided to cross reference that those ones with anyone on that list who was out of state okay and after tons of detailed research and work like real work they were able to track down everyone on the list and verify their alibis except for one judith neely judith neely so as rome
police detective kenneth kine read through judy's file he began seeing you know some circumstantial and anecdotal things that at least in his mind linked neely to the crimes committed around rome he was like you know what but I could see this.
Okay. She had first been arrested for committing a robbery at the same location Lisa Milliken disappeared from.
Oh, I didn't even put two and two together on that.
The couple was arrested near the area where Lisa's body was discovered for that robbery.
And she appeared to be committing crimes with a man.
Yup. And so a few days later on October 12th, John Hancock picked Judy's photo out of a photo lineup and said she was definitely the woman who shot him.
and later that day diane bobo and the 13 year old girl who judy had attempted to abduct in rome also identified judy's photo from a lineup as being the woman who tried to lure them into her car this is my favorite part of the whole story when it all just starts coming together it's like the what we say in the rewatcher it's the third act montage oh it is because it's just coming the scooby game unites and just gets all the evidence together so based on the identifications arrest warrants were issued for the arrest of Judy Neely.
Let's go. And as luck would have it, investigators didn't have to look too hard for their suspects because three days later, on October 9th, Judy was arrested in Murfreesboro, Tennessee for passing bad checks.
Are you kidding me?
So she had already been arrested.
Wow, and add that to the list now, bad checks.
Exactly. Unable to make bond, she sat in the Rothersford County Jail in a cell where she was repeatedly visited by a man who seemed very anxious every time he came to speak with her.
Imagine that. So, Rutherford County spokesperson, LaSeal Butner, told reporters, the officers here got suspicious because the man had been in so many times.
And a few days later, Tennessee authorities arrested Alvin Neely for not the murders yet, or the abductions, but as him being an accomplice to her larceny scheme that she was doing so they were able to get him on that smart on the morning of october 14th 1982 detectives sat down to try to pull all the pieces together but the problem was they still didn't know where janice was i was just about to ask where's janice and all and at this point it's not looking good no because now one of them is in jail and then the other is visiting it's like where's janice right so after all of this when when they sat down
with Alvin, they realized he was a little sniveling coward. Because remember, Alvin is a failure.
Yeah. In all ways. And just that one can be a failure.
He was a fucking worm.
And Kynes said he was just a complete wimp, not too bright, more or less a slob.
He just didn't fit the picture at all.
And right then, I thought there must be something real strange in all of this.
And he was even more surprised when Alvin told him he wanted to talk about the crimes.
times but then he said i didn't do no murder i ain't never killed nobody and i was like well i think by what you just said i think you said you've killed people yeah because i don't know if those double negatives all add up to a positive but if you ain't never then you did then you did because it means you didn't never so you did so you did exactly so sounds to me like you just admitted to murder my friend correct uh so alvin's lawyer william burton came to the police station and they all sat down for a formal interview with alvin neely and according to alvin he had been with his twins remember
his children that's so upsetting on the night of october 3rd and he got a call on the cb from his wife judy told him she'd picked up two people and she could and she referred to these people as john and k okay k is janice's middle name oh okay and she said she wanted him to meet them uh -huh now once he drove out to meet them they all got in by the way he brought his children okay once they all got out of their cars and exchanged introductions john got in alvin's car and k got back and he was referring to her as k yeah into judy's car with the kids and they all drove around for a little while wait sorry
so the kids are with who at this point are now with judy and and janice okay jan poor janice is probably like what the fuck is going on and And they're driving around looking for, he said, for a place to buy alcohol.
Uh -huh. And after they've been driving around for a while, John needed to pee.
So Alvin pulled over and let the man out.
Totally. Also, driving around for over an hour trying to find somewhere to buy liquor.
Yeah. We live in America.
Yeah. There are liquor stores fucking everywhere.
Exactly. But once John had peed, he said he started walking down the roadway away from the cars.
So, seeing John walking away, Judy got out of her car and started to walk after him.
So, Alvin said he went to check on the children in her car.
Oh, of course. What's a doting father?
Of course. We want to make sure that everybody knows that.
Get a life. And so, yeah, went to go check on the children in the other car, which is when he noticed that Janice was handcuffed to the seat.
Oh, just happened to notice that.
In the car with the children.
Oh, no. And he said, quote, she was just sitting there in the dark.
She was real quiet.
she didn't seem to worry about worried about nothing um i doubt that i doubt that highly yeah um after he loaded the kids back into his car these poor kids are just getting shuffled around in the middle of their parents just abducting people and we don't i mean yeah they're probably like toddlers at this point i don't even know at this point how old they were yeah i think they were young yeah so alvin yelled after john and judy telling them to hurry up but only Judy came back he said but you didn't know what happened there's no plan there you know didn't hear an in shot or anything yeah and from there
they just went back to the motel room where Judy told Alvin she had shot John oh yeah once they were back at the motel room Judy began now Judy began mocking Janice and making fun of the way she spoke oh I really hate that uh but he said Janice didn't seem really bothered by it I think she was probably just trying to stay quiet and to stay alive the next morning alvin claimed that judy and janice left the motel to drive around for a while eventually meeting up with alvin at a local dairy queen and alvin said to investigators quote she was out of control i was afraid she might shoot me this time
she's a dangerous person talking about judy right and he said she fire bombed that house in rome oh shit and he said that judy and janice left the dairy queen together and when judy came back alone she told him she had shot the girl and left her body along a rural back road he then drove he then drew up a map for investigators and he signed it oh wow yeah now they later learned this story was at least partially true yeah but somewhat the next day october 15th janice chapman's body was discovered alongside a rural road in haywood valley she had one bullet wound in her back and two in her chest
That's so sad. Rome police chief Joe Cleveland told reporters, we don't really have a motive.
There was no robbery involved.
Wow. So they just killed her to kill her.
For no reason whatsoever.
And I love that Alvin just wasted no fucking time pinning all the murders on his wife.
Every single one. He is the most sniveling little worm I've ever seen.
Like, she is a piece of absolute fucking garbage.
Yeah. The two of them.
She just showed me a picture of them.
I'm like, oh, I know.
know they're just so fucking foul together they really are um they're posing in front of a confederate flag here yeah exactly disgusting yeah but he called william burton and asked if he could also represent judy so he's throwing judy under the bus what and then hiring a lawyer now unfortunately judy hadn't asked for an attorney so when burton arrived at the station investigation investigators refused to let them see her until she asked.
Yeah. And so in the meantime, Judy was crafting a defense pretty similar to her husband's, which is she was claiming it was Alvin who had killed Lisa Milliken and Janice Chapman.
So now they're just turning on each other.
Of course. They're like Myra and Ian.
My thoughts immediately.
It's us against the world.
And then they get invested and they're like, fuck that person.
They did everything.
And they hate them girl I am like your love endures I am scrolling through pictures right now and I am just yeah flabbergasted it just makes sense it does now according to Judy she had never been in trouble with the law until she met Alvin and she had only engaged in criminal activity because of Alvin like we've seen your rap sheet more yeah and what's sad is that Judy had a beginning to life that was rough like that she seemed to be triumphing in the beginning like that's a thing like cool.
And it's like, she did really give in to her dark side that was clearly always there.
Had to have been. The detective showed her a picture of Lisa Millican, who Judy acknowledged as having met at the Riverbend Mall a few weeks earlier.
But she said, I noticed her because she looked like Joni Cunningham, who is a character from Happy Days.
Oh. If you look up Lisa Millican, she's adorable.
She does remind me.
She is like a Happy Days character.
She's just beautiful.
Now, ultimately, Judy made two statements to investigators in Alabama and Georgia.
She acknowledged participating in the attacks on the YDC, the youth, you know, the YDC employees.
Yes, yes. And the kidnapping and murder of Lisa Millican and Janice Chapman.
So she acknowledged participating in these.
Okay. But she claimed she had only participated in the crimes because she was, quote, under the control of her husband, who had physically and sexually abused her.
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Okay. Now here's the thing.
He is a piece of fucking shit.
it absolutely he is a monster he has a noted and proven history of being physically and sexually abusive to the women the girls i was gonna say young girls he's so that can all be true absolutely that doesn't take your doesn't mean your involvement away yeah you did it and also it i'm doesn't take it away it's like so your life is just terrible all around all of it is and it's It's like, I don't I there's there's so much mess here.
Yeah. You know, that like all of these things can be true at once.
That's it. That's exactly it.
Judy is a Judy's a fucking monster.
She she had monstrosity inside of her and she's a predator.
She's a predator. And it's like, so she she has that inside of her.
Absolutely. And Alvin is also a monster and doesn't even hide his monstrosity.
It's just right out in the open.
and he beats the shit out of people he's supposed to love he threatens to kill his own children like he's a piece of absolute fucking garbage it sounds like and so is she neither of them knew how to love like they are so it's absolutely it's very real to believe that all of this is true at once that she had this inside of her and that she deserves to be punished for it and that he also was in control of her and physically and sexually assaulted her to gain control I believe it I believe all of it yep so according to judy alvin had demanded that she find girls and young women for him to sexually
assault and that she only agreed to help because quote she was willing to do anything to avoid further abuse okay i believe that up to a point exactly it's like nope you enjoyed it you did it you literally inserted cleaning products into somebody's body yeah it's like i don't feel bad about that part like you're i don't feel bad about who you are on the inside like you clearly let it out this whole thing that's why this case is so fucked up because it's just like it is hard to see any of the well there's just good or any kind of positive anywhere here layers and layers of fucked up yeah hatred
sadness horrible rage yeah this abuse trauma lousy with sadness the more investigators spoke to both of them alvin and judy the more convinced they became that like what we were saying neither one of them was telling the full truth no and that's how we are kind of saying it here all of these things can be true and they cannot be true at all so just days after alvin was trying to completely blame judy for all the murders he'd come up with a new explanation he said there were seven other victims and according to alvin he and judy were quote recruiters and enforcers and this is a quote in a prostitution ring
but but not all of the slayings were connected to prostitution.
And that was a quote, by the way.
Okay. So now he's trying to say that he's working for this ring and he's an enforcer and a recruiter along with Judy and that this all has to do with that.
Uh -huh. Now, based on his statements to police, Alvin did seem to have some details about the murders of young women that had happened around the state that they hadn't connected to them.
But it wasn't super clear whether that was because he was involved in them or he could have just read about it in the paper like the things he had weren't things he couldn't have gotten in the media he said Georgia Bureau of Investigations director Phil Peters told the press all I can tell you is we're checking it out there's a lot of misinformation floating around about it but we have agents talking to them and we're just trying to evaluate find out exactly what we have to do to separate the facts from the fiction this must have been really hard I can't even imagine.
They seem like two fucking liars.
And it's like they're lying about each other and for each other.
So it's like this is just a mess.
Now, while Alvin is spinning crazy stories at this point about these criminal rings and other conspiracies, he's going off the deep end.
Judy remained mostly quiet in her jail cell.
She kind of stuck to her story that she was just a victim of Alvin.
And that was it. she wasn't going away from it.
Well that was probably her best case scenario.
It truly was. Now to most investigators and among people in the media Judy's explanation was you know as good as any other.
They saw who Alvin was so it wasn't completely out of the realm of possibility.
They got together when she's how old.
He has done this previously.
They're seeing everything we've talked about.
But Detective Kynes who was the one who had spoken to both of them and had spent a lot lot of time talking to Judy.
He said, I don't know about that.
Okay. After hearing what Judy had to say about everything, Kynes said, quote, she's mad because she had to serve a little time.
It's revenge against the system.
So he's saying she had to serve time in the Rome youth, you know, the juvenile detention center there, which is what those first attacks were after.
He's saying she was pissed that she had to do that.
Maybe something happened there.
She snapped. Who knows?
None of us know. Nobody is claiming something did or didn't happen.
She's claiming something happened.
We have no proof either way.
Yep. Something could have happened there, but either way, she's pissed about her time there.
Yeah. And he's saying this is totally against the system.
And so investigators really started to believe this theory more and they were starting to look more into it.
They started speaking more and more with Judy, trying to get a little more out of her.
and in an interview with Alabama district attorney Richard um I think it's Agu I believe it is I'm sorry Richard uh Judy explained that she liked Lisa and didn't want to hurt her and in fact she claimed she only killed Lisa because she didn't want to get caught and go back to YDC and what about the cleaning products thank you and here's the thing that they believe they believe that she was first it was revenge against the people who worked there she was gonna get that whole story story that you know the firebomb the shooting and then they had this whole list they were going to go through they
were going to fuck up everybody who worked there that wronged her yeah i think that was real and i don't know what the reason for it was whether it was based off of abuse or not but it certainly could have been yeah and what they think now is that she started going after like people that were similar to her in that position like young girls she started like they They started together going after.
How fucking terrible.
It doesn't make any sense.
That's like let's abuse people.
But nothing about this is rational in any way.
Yeah. It's true wildness.
It may have even been like subconscious that she was doing that.
Yeah. You know. They don't know.
They just think this is her being pissed about something that happened to her.
Okay. Or that she was pissed she had to do time at all.
Okay. I mean, I can see it.
It makes sense. Now, on October 28th, the DeKalb County Grand Jury was convened to hear the case against Judy for the murder of Lisa Milliken.
They deliberated less than one day before returning an indictment.
And in the three -count indictment, she was accused of not only killing Lisa, but also of kidnapping and sexual abuse of a minor.
Wow. If she was prosecuted to the fullest extent and found guilty, she was going to face the death penalty in Alabama.
Wow. Even so, her court -appointed lawyer, Bob French, was convinced that she had only participated in anything out of fear.
and he was quote dedicated to a not guilty verdict and i say good luck yeah also like of course you are that's your job now the problem facing alvin and judy's lawyers was that neither of them denied kidnapping and killing lisa and janice they both admitted that they were both there around that alvin was also an idiot so when he would try to create elaborate stories and lies to save himself he always ended up actually creating traps for himself to just glump into um i mean good yeah so this is a trigger warning and for this next part because i'm just gonna say something about the lisa millican thing
and it's pretty horrific it's sexual abuse related so i just want to let you guys know that that's coming it's just for a second so you can skip forward really quick if you want to okay um for example during an interview with gbi agents alvin repeatedly denied raping lisa milliken uh but when agents looked at him and said well how the fuck then did she have semen found inside of her if you did not rape her and alvin said he he just kept denying but then he turned it into an outrageous lie according to alvin he said and this is horrific He said Lisa was handcuffed to the bed in the motel room when Judy
masturbated him into a Dixie cup and then poured it into Lisa.
That was his explanation.
I actually don't know what to say about that.
Instead of just like you're caught, you're caught, you got caught.
there's no it is black and white it is you are caught red -handed and you come up with the most wild and just disgusting foul in complex explanation for something that is a black and white like there's no that's on another level stupid this fucking worm was oh that's so heinous and again that was his way of still saying well judy was part of that uh -huh and it's like just admit that you're a fucking pig that you're a predatory fucking pig and you've done this your whole damn life that's so like you disgusting pig the fact that his brain would even make that up is so and incomprehensible investigators
first of all must have been sitting there horrified but also sitting there and just being like are you fucking kidding like how dumb do you think we are who do you think you are talking to and again with each new lie he just got himself more and more tangled in his own fucking guilt yeah and it's every time he would would more or less just admit his guilt again exactly and over the course of the investigation his story changed repeatedly first it was all judy's idea because she was crazy and dangerous yeah then he claimed they were enforcers in this ring and then that whole thing fell apart so he
started blaming judy again and telling detectives she was bisexual and it was her idea to kidnap and rape the girls okay so now he's saying that like this is her idea and she wanted she's bi so that's why it's like alvin just literally let it go get so fucked like it's just you're so dumb just admit it i hate when people like when they're backed into a corner like that and they just keep going because i'm like liars like that when you are literally holding something in front of them and being like look and they're like no that's so maddening like so infuriating like that was like my ex -boyfriend
when i held up like proof of his cheating like a literal physical piece of proof and he was like no misprint and it's like are you like he told me a movie theater misprinted a ticket a movie theater misprinted a ticket yeah like those kind of people where you will hold a piece of evidence oh yeah that is indisputable in front of them and they will lie their way out of it i have shown someone a text that they sent from their phone yeah and they sat there and told me that they didn't send it yeah when i had proof that they did people who lie like that are scary they just will lie it's just like
they don't care they will never come out with the truth and that is alvin the scary thing is you start to wonder if they do believe it with the just fucking like conviction with thank you lie the oomph and the oomph with which they deny that yeah the truth with how they'll defend themselves yep it's really scary it's in it's intense like really scary when faced with that it's unlike anything you could possibly ever explain i listened to my ex if he's listening right now fuck you honestly not even i'm like well that's enjoy story time because you definitely remember this yeah listen to him in the bathroom
taught have a full Full conversation with another girl.
Full conversation, making plans, listened to the whole thing, heard her voice.
Could hear the entire thing.
Heard him, like, talking back.
Oh, yeah. Having a full conversation.
Yep. And then he came out, and I said, what the fuck?
I just listened to that entire thing.
I know you were talking to a girl.
And he said, I was listening to a voicemail.
That's unbelievable.
And then you feel crazy.
Oh, yeah. Because I was like, oh, obviously I'm crazy.
That's the other thing.
That's what these people do, though.
The wildest tales, you'll be like, that probably happened.
Yeah, you're like, oh, I'm the crazy.
Like, I'm being very, like...
Like, I'm losing it.
I'm being wild for even, like, I need to check myself before I wreck myself.
And that's what Alvin, I think, that's also why he surrounds himself with younger people.
Because they're easier to dominate.
Because he likes to control, and he obviously likes to have that manipulation tactic under his belt.
That's what he uses.
And he's disgusting.
that's disgusting he's sitting here trying to pull it on seasoned fucking investigators like the georgia bureau of investigations and he's sitting there trying to pull that shit that would be like you you want to pull it on like a 19 year old girl who thinks they're in love with you yeah it's probably gonna work like oops i i know this but you try to pull it on some people who have been through some shit no no it's not gonna work they've seen like the worst of the the worst of course so it's just for him to pull out the judy's bisexual and it's her idea to kidnap so she's bi so that so she wants
to kidnap and rape girls thank you that's the other thing i'm like this conclusion i know what you're trying to say here sir because this was what this was the 70s yeah it's like the in the early 80s or late 70s so he's like this terrible thing of bisexuality they just want to murder her abduct and rape young women of course like no i I think you have actually proven that you do that.
Yeah. Good try. It's kind of your MO.
But you're both gross.
So in Judy's case, Bob French, her court -appointed lawyer, was having a similar problem because in one interview after another, Judy confessed to participating in the assaults on the YDC workers and the kidnapping and murders of Lisa and Janice.
So, again, similar issue because, like, they've admitted it.
So what's the case?
And faced with two capital murder cases, he filed a motion in early december to have judy tried as a juvenile he acknowledged that his motion was pretty unlikely to be approved like because of what like how bad it was yeah the crime he said we would be remiss in our duties if we hadn't asked for the youthful offender status such since she is a juvenile uh -huh but i seriously doubt it will be granted considering the magnitude of the crime the fact that she's still a fucking juvenile and this is her rap sheet and how many fucking kids does she have does she just have the two yeah i mean at this point
she has three i think three yeah wow i think at least two wow yeah so french's motion for youthful offender status was was denied.
Denied. It was denied, and on March 7, 1983, her trial for the murder of Lisa Milliken began in DeKalb County, and after two days of jury selection, opening arguments began with Richard, I think it's Iigu, I believe, arguing on behalf of the state.
Now, Richard told the jury of Lisa Milliken's harrowing four -day ordeal, where she endured torture, multiple rapes, and then was injected with caustic chemicals and then shot and thrown off a cliff by Judy Neely.
Wow. Like it doesn't get more heinous than that.
No, absolutely not.
Judy did this not because they were claiming Judy did this not because she was under duress or because she was being violently abused and controlled by her husband.
She did it because she wanted to.
Yeah. And personally, that's what I believe.
I believe she was being violently abused by her husband.
and i believe she wanted to do this yeah i believe both those things are true and like detective kinds he contended that after a brief incarceration for the robbery at the mall where she was in that juvenile detention center she had developed an anger and disdain for society and humanity and she wanted to seek revenge which she took out on girls she perceived to be like her yeah that's wild yeah now in her defense bob french told the jury you know a different a different side of this story in his version of events judy was quote beaten and brainwashed into procuring 13 year old lisa ann millican as
a quote -unquote sex partner which i was like you mean rape victim yeah for her husband um and then she just followed his instructions in killing the girl and pushing her body into little river canyon which is wild to me that like judy's like oh i did it like she's not even blaming it on out like she's not even being like alvin killed her he's like oh she's like oh no i killed her right and they're having to be like yeah she just did it because he told her to and it's like i i think there's more to it than that according to french quote every move every action every thought for carrying out this heinous
event was was planned, calculated, and instigated by Alvin Neely, who had been violently controlling her actions since the day they met and began a relationship when she was only 15 years old.
Again, I think it's all true.
And I think she wanted to do it.
It's wild to me that all of this happened in the span of like a couple of years.
Yeah. Now, in support of his defense of what was then known as battered woman syndrome, that's referred to, um he offered testimony from judy's clinical psychiatric examinations that had concluded that judy quote probably fits the battered women's syndrome to the most severe extent that the psychiatrist had seen wow this is why i do believe all of these things can be true the psychiatrist also noted that alvin's mental state was substituted for judy's own resulting in a situation where judy quote had no intents of her own so french told the jury judy was reduced to a robot by this man who saw
himself as an extension of Clyde Barrow and his woman as Bonnie Parker.
Oh. Who knows? I don't know.
All I know is they're both terrible.
That's the thing. That's the thing.
It doesn't matter what they think or who they see themselves as.
I don't dispute any of this.
Yeah. I think it's all true at the same time and I think she didn't...
It's fucked. You don't do that kind of thing.
You don't inject someone with cleaning fluids six times and then shoot them in the chest unless you want to do that.
so the district attorney acknowledged that Judy absolutely may have been influenced by her husband, and you know what, maybe she wouldn't have acted violently without his urging, maybe she would have held it all in, but she was still responsible for her actions that she did do, the hypothetical maybe she wouldn't have, doesn't really have bearing on anything, when Lisa and Janice are lying dead in the ground, so they said her plea was not guilty Guilty by reason of insanity.
And even if it had been, such a plea does not include abnormal behavior manifested by repeated criminal or antisocial acts.
And what has happened here is criminal, antisocial, and of the highest degree.
So after two weeks of very graphic testimony, a lot of evidence, the jury deliberated for less than four hours and returned a verdict of guilty.
Hell yeah. The circuit court jury recommended ascendance of life in prison without the possibility of parole which i think is very fair um french her uh lawyer said judy is in pretty bad bad shape and he referred to her as a basket case again a quote yes of course um under alabama alabama alabama alabama alabama under alabama law the judge actually has the right to accept or reject the jury's recommendation for a sentence oh that's interesting although Although they recommended life without parole, he had the total authority to say yes or no to that.
Wow. And when Judy returned for sentencing on April 18th, 1983, DeKalb County Circuit Court Judge Randall Cole actually chose not to accept it.
Huh. And he sentenced Judy to death.
Shit. He said, by any standards acceptable to a civilized society, this crime was heinous, atrocious, and cruel.
Agreed. and asked by the judge if she had anything to say on her own behalf Judy said I didn't have any feelings I had no thoughts or feelings except to do what I was told there's nothing I can do to change the past I can keep things from happening again I can help battered wives and that's what I want to do now I don't know if it was really love or fright from being so scared of him or dependency one of my biggest pet peeves in murder trials is when the person says i can't change the past we know because you know what everybody fucking knows that particularly your victims families know that save
your breath and they are living with that thought every day that we can't change the past so we don't need to hear from you i can't change we we know that fucker, we know you can't even do basic algebra, so we're not worried about you changing the fucking path.
That's redundant. Thank you, Judy.
What we're worried about is you a caged fucking animal being let out into society and doing this all over again.
Well, and the thing that pisses me off beyond that is when they sit there and say their plans for the future when they took away two people's plans for the future.
That's great that you want to do that.
Did you happen to ask either of those two girls what they plan to do with their futures precisely you it's like she's sitting there being like your children's lives are going to be gone so that i can become this wonderful face of you know this cause and you know what they they they died for me yeah to change lives and it's like wow like okay i was was a family member sitting in that courtroom I don't know how people do it I don't know how they do it I have so much respect for the people because I don't I don't think I could do it absolutely not I don't think I have the willpower I think like anybody
who is able to sit there and control themselves I think like you deserve a standing ovation 100 because you're a you're a higher vibrating human absolutely now hoping to avoid another trial and another potential death penalty for her case in Georgia for kidnapping and murdering Janice, Judy agreed to plead guilty to the charge of kidnapping and agreed to testify against Alvin in exchange for the state of Georgia, agreeing not to pursue murder charges or the death penalty.
Wow. Now, again, she was already sentenced to die in Alabama.
So authorities in Georgia were like, I think it's fine if we agree to this plea.
Like she's sentenced to die.
And she's going to to testify against alvin which is basically just a win for them exactly there's no really win for her there precisely so having been indicted in march for the murder of janice chapman alvin was indicted a second time on may 10th 1983 for the murder of lisa milligan good now seeing how judy's trial had ended and the fact that uh she was definitely going to testify against him in the chapman case alvin agreed to plead guilty in georgia to charges of kidnapping with bodily harm and murder and in exchange the state was agreeing to not pursue the death penalty interesting so i think
this is good he was sentenced to life in prison okay which i think is great i agree take it and he began serving his sentence at bostick state prison in hardwick georgia so like bye alvin see you fucking never i don't think it's fair that she got death and he he didn't.
They did the same crimes.
Well, you'll feel better.
So after she was sentenced, she became the youngest woman ever sentenced to death in the United States.
Yeah. Cause I just looked, I tried to figure out her age.
I think she was born in 1965.
So she was either, I think she was 17 when she was in trial.
17 years old and was sentenced to the death penalty for murder.
That's wild. And she was sent to Julia Tutwiler prison for women to await execution.
On death row. Now, immediately, though, obviously, Judy's lawyers filed an appeal on her behalf.
And they argued that her Miranda rights had been violated following her arrest. Because law enforcement officers failed to inform her that an attorney had been called to the jail by her husband.
Because remember, Alvin had his own.
Well, Alvin, so the whole thing was, as a result, her lawyers argued that the statements she made during those early interviews were inadmissible.
And she deserved a new trial.
the justices disagreed because they said Judy had repeatedly stated that she didn't need or want a lawyer right so and she had continued speaking freely with investigators so she had said out loud I don't need and I don't want a lawyer okay so that negates all that exactly and in their decision they upheld the lower court's conviction and the justices wrote even if Mrs. Neely's confessions were inadmissible because of a violation of her fifth or sixth Amendment right to counsel, any error in the admission of those confessions were cured by her own testimony at trial.
Right. So they were like, even if that had happened, she testified at trial and said she did it.
Right. So like we don't need those earlier confessions, actually, because she just said it in the court.
Late as day. So after more than a decade on death row.
Wow. Judy's sentence was commuted to life in prison by Governor Fobb James, who cited the jury's original sentencing recommendation as the reason to commute it so 10 years on death row is 27 and gets commuted to life in prison that is my age right now yep i can't imagine like yeah but she's such a fucking monster yeah and they so they did this because they said that original jury had wanted life in prison without parole right so they are allowed to go back and commute that sentence back to that which like i don't know i don't know how it feels like a little like that well i gotta look further
into that like i don't want to spout out an opinion without being fully i guess my initial thought is like huh but i think in this case it's a huh because it's like what the fuck yeah but i guess it could be beneficial in other cases if maybe the judge handed out like a ridiculously unfair sentence yeah and i think i i'm also moving my opinion on the death penalty so much that i i think i'm also just like i honestly life without parole i'm like that works for me yeah and i guess in my opinion it's like what's the point of having the jury if the judge can just do whatever the fuck they want yeah
that's true you know but then like what's the point of the judge if the jury gets the final say yeah you know it all kind of is convoluted yeah it really is but either way following this whole thing the alabama legislature passed legislation in 2003 to prevent judy becoming eligible for parole but then changes changes in the law in 2018 undid that legislation i was gonna say making her eligible as of 2023 yeah in may 2023 the state parole board deliberated for less than an hour and denied her parole i saw that as of today she is still in julia julia tutweiler prison for women she is serving out
a life sentence but she will be eligible for consideration for parole again in 2028 wow and And she's only, I think she's 58 right now, 58 or 59.
Yeah. So she could very well still be alive then.
The thing is, from what I looked up, I think even if she got parole, she would have to go serve in Georgia.
Oh. Because I think she will still have to serve a life sentence in Georgia, so I don't think it will even matter.
Interesting. I'll look it up again, and I'll make sure to update it on the next episode.
Okay. But I'm fairly certain that I guess that makes sense From what I read she will have to continue serving another sentence In another place Even though Because they gave her the plea of taking death penalty Off the table but they gave her love So yeah So I think she'll get parole and then immediately have to go to Georgia And start serving a life sentence So like why even give her parole Just don't It's kind of a waste of everybody's time Alvin Neely in case you were wondering Because you were like he didn't get death He did uh he didn't he got death in the end uh he served roughly 20 years
of his life sentence state prison and then he died in october 21st on october 21st 2005 from complications following surgery oh well yeah bye so it is quite a story and they are quite a pair yeah they both belong long to be locked away and have the key thrown away.
Yeah, they sure do.
I don't think there's any hope for somebody that can inject another person with Drano and dish soap.
A child. I don't think.
A 13 year old child.
I just simply don't think.
Yeah, I don't see how you get past that, but you know, here we are.
Wow. What a horrific case.
Yeah. I would really love something paranormal for the next episode uh but i personally am working on like a old timey one so sorry to some sorry to some but but yay to others yeah exactly and then i mean we're gonna be coming up in the next few weeks we're gonna be hitting you with some like pretty gnarly cases so yeah just be prepared we'll have a little smattering of spooky in there too just to like cleanse your palate in between but don't worry because there's there's some rough ones coming Yeah.
You know, we got to move away from the most wonderful time of the year, Halloween.
Except it still hasn't happened yet.
No. Technically. Weird. Yeah.
But anyway, we hope you keep listening.
And we hope you keep it weird. But not this weird, because I don't know about that.
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