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Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash.
And I'm Alayna. And this is Morbid.
It is. I did that thing where I almost said, hi, I'm Alina.
Hi, I'm Alina. Just, hey, I'm Alina.
That's it. Welcome.
That's the, that's, that's, that's the...
Whoa, that's the that on that.
Yeah, that's what I was going for.
I figured that's what you were going for.
Just trying to help you out there for a second.
Just taking a sip of your iced coffee.
So she's like, you keep talking.
Keep going. Don't you let anyone hear me swallow that iced coffee.
Oh, God, I hate when...
i hate the thought of people like hearing me chew or swallow or anything it's true um i don't like mouth noises no and most people don't i don't think so i don't think anybody's like oh yay mouth noise oh yay a mouth my favorite um i also just needed that coffee because wow i could not get a sentence out it's true but here we are it's morbid yeah i have a pretty tough one today it's it's a sad sad story oh good um but yeah maybe before we start i'll just quickly say there's a tiktok account that you guys should follow oh she's good at that listen yeah i haven't done it in a while yeah you haven't
tiktok recommendation corner with alina who's who's up oh there's two actually so uh my first is like for all especially parents out there oh is it annalee yeah annalee a -n -a -l -e -e she's hilarious she's like the realist parent she is even hello i feel like even if you don't have kids but like you want kids or like you're involved in kids lives in a big way she's a great follow yeah she's a great follow i highly suggest it very entertaining very sweet and every time i watch her videos i'm like can we hang out though Like, can we be mom friends?
I would really like to be.
So, Anna Lee, if you're listening, can we be mom friends?
Can you guys be mom friends?
And then I can be, like, your non -mom friend for a little bit.
I want that. And Anna Lee and a bunch of other TikTok moms hung out in, like, South Carolina.
I know. One of my other favorite mom TikToks was there.
I can't think of her name.
And I'm so bad at that.
I lost my mind when I saw it because they were all my favorites.
And I was like, I want to come.
The mom with, like, the super curly hair who's pregnant right now.
Oh, my God. Yes. yes cutest woman alive funniest woman alive and you know what we'll make sure to share yeah ash is gonna look for it because you gotta follow these these ladies because they're just genuinely hilarious women they're doing awesome things and i highly suggest supporting the shit out of them i agree who is the other person that you so the other one is if you're feeling you know if you if you're feeling witchy or if you're interested in witchiness there's an account It's an account called Down the Witch's Way.
Oh, hell yeah. We literally just did one of their sales.
Yeah, and he has the most soothing voice, my goodness.
Couple of books. He has a couple books that I have. I purchased them because he is that good.
And he's just, you know, he's a delightful human to watch his TikToks.
And I think he needs more followers.
So I agree. Go take a peek at it if you're feeling like you want some easy little, you know, spells or you just want to listen to a soothing man tell you wonderful things this man is it you could do that down the witch's way so good i love his spells and then the mom that i was just talking about um is at the von d fam it's the v -o -n -d -y -f -a -m hilarious that page is so funny she is hilarious she makes up like songs and stuff and it just yeah she's really funny and again like even if if you're not a mom but like you love kids or just a very very good accounts to follow that'll just make you smile
exactly make you laugh if you're looking for a laugh or looking for a smile or looking to learn some things those are some good pages so cast a fucking spell so you know so do it just do it just do it i was thinking of the does anybody remember the video where the little boy was like so do is it just do is it i can't find that video anywhere now and we remember we used to say it all the time you showed me it wow but yeah those are a little internet recommendations of the hour and now that we've brought you up we're gonna bring you right right back down i don't know this one so i am totally in the dark
i also hadn't heard of this one um a couple people requested it so i said sure beans totally sure beans and then me and dave started working on on it and we were like wow this is so tragic and terrible but an interesting story nonetheless okay and definitely um i just want to say at the beginning of this i have a few um like mental health things that i'm going to plug at the end so definitely stay tuned for those outlets okay so we're going to be talking about hayward bissell today and the murder of patricia booer it is a particularly gruesome one so just please be warned so hayward william bissell
was born March 28, 1962 in New London, Ohio.
I think I had said you did like an Ohio case recently and I was like oh my god my next one is Ohio.
Oh yeah. But I ended up doing something before that.
So this is the Ohio one.
Yeah this is the one I was talking about.
But Hayward was the second of three children born to Howard and Magdalena better known as Maggie Bissell.
Altogether though there were four children in the house actually because Maggie had brought a son from her previous marriage.
Now Howard, he spent almost 20 years serving in the U .S. Army before finally getting discharged, and that's when the family settled down in Ohio.
Okay. Now once they were kind of settled, he went to work at the Ford plant in Sandusky, and from the sounds of it, Maggie stayed at home and raised the kids, and I'm sure she definitely had her hands full.
And she definitely did, actually, because by most accounts, Hayward was a pretty difficult child from an early age.
A family member recalled his childhood and told reporters, he was always griping.
He griped as a child and he griped as an adult.
Fun. Yeah. According to more family members, he also had a constant struggle with authority.
Whether it was an authority figure at home, at school, at work, he just did not want to deal with and would not deal with any kind of authority.
That's not easy to deal with.
No. And it was probably for that very reason that it made it really difficult for him to hold down a job.
The family later said he abhors work and avoids working.
Wow. And his attitude made it so that he was constantly involved in some kind of conflict some kind of argument always had an issue with somebody and that person usually for like the the first half of his life was his father.
Their relationship for probably that reason and I'm sure many others was was very, very strained.
There was a lot of different reports about Hayward's childhood, but a lot of them were kind of unreliable because they all said different things.
But that speculation does make a bit of sense that there was issues with the father.
And one relative wondered if Hayward's behavioral problems could have come from or at the very least been exacerbated by, quote, a couple of minor accidents as a child that might have resulted in concussions.
emotions. That's always a trigger I feel.
Yeah but I mean he must have been growing up in what the late 60s early 70s so I don't think they had a great understanding of what that did or what that could do.
I mean up until very recently they would tell you to wake the kid up every hour yeah they hit their head right now they tell you something totally different.
Oh I didn't even realize that changed as well like obviously I'm sure there's different things but like Like, they tell you to, like, just make sure that they rouse correctly, but you don't need to wake them up, especially not for, like, a minor head knock, you know?
That makes sense. We were always, like, so crazy.
Like, whenever the kids would, like, bump their head.
Oh, yeah. We'd be like, we need to wake them up every 20 minutes.
I don't blame you, though, because it's scary.
Yeah, you're nervous.
Exactly. Especially a new parent.
You're like, Jesus.
Oh, yeah. Trailing off.
Well, in general, like, if you think your kid whacked their head hard enough, that's really nerve wracking.
And in fact, I'm about to say something about that.
There you go. There was one incident in particular where he had fallen so hard that afterwards he told a family member he got down on his knees and saw a bright light.
Oh. That's how hard he had fallen.
Oh. So that's like definitely concussion territory.
It's pretty hard. At the very least. Yeah.
And if that was one concussion of many, the mental illness that kind of plagued his life afterwards, and especially when he was an adult, I think could have started in early childhood.
Yeah, there certainly could have been a correlation.
You know? Who's to say?
So by the time he reached high school, Hayward had a reputation as a difficult and sort of hot and cold student.
And I think this was definitely during a time where people did not understand mental health struggles.
Yeah. And it was, it seemed very clear that he was struggling mentally.
But it's just like, he's lazy.
he's lazy he doesn't like he doesn't like authority he doesn't like this and i think had he gotten help i don't think this story would have played out the way that it did it's very sad but the thing was if he was interested in the subject he would actually do pretty well in the class but if he didn't care or wasn't interested in the subject he would just mess around he would distract people in the class and he'd end up failing or just getting kicked out okay so he He ended up dropping out after his sophomore year, which probably had something to do with his increasingly heavy drug use and alcohol
abuse around that same time.
And that's another thing that I think, again, exacerbated the issues that probably were already there.
For sure. Now, in 1979, when he was 18, he enlisted in the army.
And at first he was stationed in Cleveland, Ohio, but he did eventually get transferred to Germany, which is weird. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, the Joe Matheny.
You were just talking about that and he probably didn't get stationed in Germany.
Yeah, we don't think he did at least. Hayward did.
Oh, that's wild. And Joe Matheny's childhood was very like, I'm not sure exactly what happened because there's different reports too.
Yeah, it's interesting.
Yeah, and they are both very, they end up both being very brutal people.
Yeah, exactly. But it was there in Germany that he trained as, this is really cool in my opinion, a motor transport operator and a rifleman.
But strangely enough, Hayward, he didn't seem to struggle with authority as much when he was in the army.
I don't really know why that was.
Yeah, that's strange.
But who's to say? I don't know if it was just one of those things where he was like, I have to do this.
I don't really have a choice.
Yeah, I know. I just got to get through it and I might as well do it.
Or if it was because he was interested in what he was working on.
That could have been it.
Maybe. Exactly. I think it was probably all the structure involved.
I think if there's structure, that tends to help.
But not only was he staying out of trouble at this point in his life, but he was actually succeeding in ways that he never had before.
The more and more I'm talking about this, it is kind of reminding me of Joe Matheny.
He ended up being honored two times with the Army Achievement Medal for excelling in specialties.
Wow. And unfortunately, though, his positive experiences in the Army would be short -lived and really the first and only time in his life where he wasn't involved in any kind of conflict or some kind of trouble.
Oh, that sucks. But it's so sad because it's clear that like obviously he could succeed in some areas.
That's why none of these things, you can really not make sense.
heads or tails of these kind of stories.
Because it's like, would it have stopped you?
Would it not have? What would have taken to put you on the right path?
Is there a right path for you?
These kind of things are always just like, huh?
It's one of those things where you can argue nature.
You can argue nurture.
It's all speculation.
They're both at play.
Yeah. It's all speculation.
Exactly. Because who are we to say?
Who's to say? I'm not an armchair expert expert like Dax Shepard. Exactly.
Another great podcast recommendation.
True. Same. But anyways, in 1985, Hayward was actually honorably discharged and he went back home to Ohio where he got a job working as a security guard at a factory in Toledo, which is really fun to say.
Toledo. Toledo. He got another gig after that working at the Fanny Farmer Candy Factory in Norwalk.
And it wasn't long before he met a lady that struck his fancy.
Her name was Sherry Brown and they got married very quickly and after they got married they moved to norwalk ohio and a year later they had a child together a daughter named crystal um trigger warning coming up for domestic violence the newlywed period where you're just happy to be husband and wife and everything is beautiful a lot of dada do it did not last long for them just one year after crystal was born hayward started verbally and physically abusing sherry that's fucked up which like i can't imagine you just have a baby with someone you think you're in love with and then that's when they
start being cruel to you like that's when the facade drops that's awful but things actually got so bad that she filed for and was awarded a strain a restraining order excuse me against hayward but she ended up dropping the order just eight days after it was granted and she did go back I'm sure she was very scared yeah of course you never know those situations no and according to her brother Leonard the abuse only got worse after the restraining order was lifted he told a reporter from the Sandusky register I know he was very dominating speaking about Hayward he made my sister eat food from the floor like
a dog oh my god he beat her he used to do lots of weird stuff and what's really sad is during this time her own family was having a hard time believing her about everything that was happening i think because it was so like over and exactly so extreme that they were like what and was he putting on like a good front for them i think he must have yeah i'm sure he was able to exactly and that's awful so they weren't believing the details of the abuse necessarily and it was only after hayward ended up being arrested that they realized sherry was telling them the truth the entire time that poor baby that poor baby having having
to grow up in that environment.
I didn't find anything to say that like she was involved, the baby.
And I can only hope that she wasn't.
Well, I feel so bad for like both of them.
For Sherry too, because it's like, I'm sure Sherry just wanted to protect that baby.
And it's like an impossible situation.
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head to squarespace .com morbid for a free trial and when you're ready to launch use offer code morbid to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain so in january of 1989 she did file for another restraining order after an argument got so bad that he slapped her across the face and ended up throwing her into the refrigerator not like inside of it but like onto it you have to be like such a huge piece of shit to abuse your spouse a hundred percent like like obviously you have to be a huge piece of shit to abuse anybody but like so when you're married you're supposed to love like what the fuck
is wrong with you like you took vows to accept them for who they are to love them no matter what you can't handle your own your own anger like you you're you're that fucking uh it's just like grow up no it's Yeah.
Learn to manage your own emotions there, buddy.
Go get help. If you're having a problem regulating your emotions, you know that, like you realize that inside of yourself and you need to go get help.
And you need to come up with like ways to, you know, hand like regulate it.
Go take a walk outside, go do something, count to 10, like figure out ways that work for you to calm it down before you lose it on someone because that's not cool in any sense of the word. That's why I personally feel like everybody should just go to therapy because you figure out ways to calm yourself down before you even know that you're pissed off about truly you know it makes sense but it's so sad she in the affidavit filed sherry wrote he slapped me and i started to scream then he pushed me up against the wall and hit both sides of my head i got in the shower and told him to leave me alone
he slapped me again on the side of the head and banged my head against the shower and knocked me down like this is what he's doing to his wife well that's the thing i'm just picturing her like Like, this is the person that you love.
And a love enough to, like, welcome a baby into the world.
That stuff always really stresses me out to here because it's just like, I can't.
Like, the fear that must come with that and the loneliness.
Like, I can't imagine.
The fear, the loneliness, the lack of trust that you would have in your next relationship if you even trusted somebody enough to get into one a second time.
I just feel bad that anybody goes through that.
It's just fucked up.
But so she ended up filing for another restraining order, like I said.
And this time, once it was granted, she had no fucking intention of dropping it or going back.
Good for her. And she was going to up the ante this time because she filed for divorce.
Now, at first, when he was served the divorce papers, Hayward was in shock.
Yeah? I'm like, you were really, you were really shocked by this news.
He told Sherry's brother, Leonard, I can't understand, after so many years of loving her, why she wants to divorce me.
Huh. Like, you have been married three years, and it sounds like you made a majority of those years a living hell for her.
Like, you did not love her.
Love is not hitting somebody repeatedly in the face.
And also, he was trying to kind of, like, fuck with her name, and he was constantly accusing her of having an affair with one of her friends.
And she was like, I'm not having an affair.
And another report made to the Norwalk Police, Leonard, her brother there, claimed, Hayward is telling people in front of me and to me that Sherry is gay and she left him for another woman a woman which I can say she's not like why are you just making random stuff up on her like just go your separate ways man that's the thing but either way regardless of all his protests and claims of Sherry being stepping out on him and everything the divorce was granted on March 29th 1989 and luckily Sherry was awarded full custody of Crystal I was gonna say I'm very glad that she she was able to get out of there
because sometimes that is the most dangerous most of the time that is the most dangerous part of the whole thing absolutely is when you file or when you plan to well what makes me sad is so she did get full custody of crystal but a few weeks after everything was finalized the agreement was modified and hayward actually ended up getting granted custody on alternate weekends and holidays which she must have been terrified to send her daughter over over there how do you let a child be with any person who is violent especially toward women and it's his daughter daughter it's like no matter what of which way
it goes if that other person is violent and has been proven to be violent they should not be they should not be able to be around that child unless it's supervised and like they're in a program getting help exactly so the divorce seemed to settle the conflict between sherry and hayward i think think they must have just gone their separate ways and kind of let the court handle it from the sounds of it, which I think in that situation was the best way to go.
But at the same time, it definitely marked a downward spiral for Hayward into more violence, more bizarre behavior that hinted at bigger mental health problems to come.
In 1990, his parents moved from Ohio to Florida, and their relationship for like the past couple years with him had gotten increasingly strained, especially leading up to their move but at the same time they were also the only people he had to lean on when it came to managing his symptoms and his symptoms were getting worse and worse yeah so once they were gone the changes in him were completely undeniable and his life it just became a like a series of bizarre events threatening events he was having violent exchanges with people acquaintances friends doctors strangers sometimes and he didn't really
have anybody around him at this point to like get him into a program i was gonna say and he wasn't like it's really tanking here it's getting worse now it was during this time that he was like i'm saying right now showing decline and in late 1991 his landlord at the dreamland motel where he ended up living called the police and reported that hayward made uh multiple strange and frightening threats according to the landlord hayward stole the landlord's mail and cut it up into little pieces and he said he did this because he was convinced that his landlord was returning his mail like hayward's mail
to the post office and the landlord lord was like no i'm not doing that at all like i i haven't touched his mail seeing it's these kind of things these like strange behaviors that are always the things that it's like it's leading up you wish someone's radar would go up but again and and especially in this country mental health is not where it needs to be like to be remedied you know what I mean like it's not easy to get resources it's like stigmatized it still sucks people don't want to admit sometimes like what they're going through because of the state not everyone has access to the help they
need or the help that would the help that would stop somebody from going down these kind of paths and sadly right now especially like in America we're in such a mental health crisis right now after the pandemic beds Beds aren't available.
Psychiatrists aren't available.
It's fucked. Like it's sad.
Yeah, it really is.
I really hope that some of the sources that I ended up putting in the bottom, if anybody is going through something, I hope that they can find help there.
Because I feel like therapists are probably overrun right now.
Oh, yeah. I mean, I can't imagine how their mental health is going like with their caseloads, you know?
Exactly. My therapist that I used to see said that she had a therapist herself.
Oh, I'm sure. And like, I can't imagine having to take on all of those problems and then be like and like not internalize them you know but during this incident where the the cutting up of the mail was going on the landlord called his wife into the room to be a witness to of the exchange and at that point hayward told the couple and this is like racist so trigger warning he said i don't like people from foreign countries i'm going to kill one of them when it gets dark i'm going to hurt somebody i'm going to hurt them or their their children oh so that's when the landlord called the police oh thank
goodness they took that step yeah but shortly before this incident with his landlord hayward's second wife theresa she started noticing a dramatic shift in his behavior because he got married a second time they got married in 1991 and just after the wedding like he had with his first wife he started abusing her getting argumentative picking fights and then started making weird threats or just being generally menacing.
Now, weirdly, the abuse of behavior was not the main cause for the end of their relationship.
What really ended the relationship was Hayward's slow shift toward isolation, and he was becoming like very obsessive about his environment.
He wanted to control everything in the environment.
According to Teresa, Hayward, quote, got to where he never wanted to go out, and he was very particular about putting things where they belonged.
He wanted everything done in his way.
So they went their separate ways because of this, but they actually never formally divorced.
Oh, wow. Isn't that interesting?
Yeah. They were technically still married, but very much separated when Hayward started dating Patricia Buer years later.
So in the years that followed the breakdown of Hayward's second marriage and kind of like the incidents where he was living, he was hospitalized for mental health treatment several times.
times and quote with the diagnosis usually listed as paranoid schizophrenia.
Okay. Which is really sad.
His symptoms almost always included acute paranoia and he believed that people were either watching him, following him, or bugging his apartment.
That's so scary. It is.
In one of the instances he told doctors quote he had been given truth serum in a shot and in candy.
And then in another he told his doctors he believed that quote his alarm clock and his mind were being controlled by satellites and said that certain people in town were trying to bite off his penis wow so he was really really going through it but the thing was more often than not the periods where he was hospitalized they were actually him volunteering to get help and like going into these programs like the the first move was initiated by hayward himself and it was amazing that he was willing to get help but because of the state of his mental health he didn't always want to stay once he got there
and while the doctors maybe wanted him to stay longer there wasn't a lot they could do back then because this all of this was a voluntary basis yeah and what only exacerbated things further was that he was prescribed medicine to manage his symptoms but he didn't always take it consistently yeah because he doesn't have like an aid that lives with him he doesn't have a doctor that's coming out to check on him routinely it's just him or Or just anyone that's like around him taking care of that.
Yeah, he doesn't have anybody.
So that was obviously going to lead to a lot of bigger issues.
This whole story is really sad for everybody involved.
Yeah, truly. Now, in the late 90s, he was living in Greenwich, Ohio, and he was having a lot of run -ins with the police.
I think it's Greenwich. It might be Greenwich. But I said Greenwich. Yeah.
Because we have a Greenwich here.
We do. Yeah. So he was having frequent run -ins with the police during this time.
there was a lot of sudden outbursts there was a lot of inappropriate behavior going on and he actually got to know the police chief randall kilgore pretty well and because of this randall actually recognized hayward symptoms of mental illness and i think he kind of like would keep tabs on him a little more because he knew that he was by himself now on one occasion hayward walked into this officer's office and reported that something evil had taken hold of him he said he couldn't tell the chief what it was because it was quote unquote confidential and that was actually his second run -in with hayward
that same day the first run -in was when hayward was discovered sitting in the front seat of the mayor's car in the like city hall parking lot oh my so clearly this was escalating yeah and the thing was for the most part aside from the struggles within the marriage and the domestic abuse afterwards his behavior was strange and it was off -putting for residents in the small town own but it was usually just minor disturbances that were going on but in december of 1998 that all changed when police in newark ohio received a call about a man with a gun causing problems at a place called nick saloon now
when the officers arrived at the bar they were approached by a man who said somebody else in the parking lot had been following his car closely for miles and he didn't know why now when they approached the driver of the other vehicle it turned out to be hayward Bissell and he told the officers he couldn't tell them why he was following this man he said again it's confidential so in his mind he was on these like missions basically but obviously it was due to the schizophrenia that he was suffering from so in the spring of 1999 he was hospitalized again after a small fire on the stove of his apartment
set off the fire alarms in that apartment in Greenwich. And he told the investigators he had been smoking pot and that interacted with his already prescribed medication.
And the fire started because he fell asleep with a pot still on the stove.
Now, when he woke up, whatever was in the pot had caught fire and he ended up with a burn on his arm.
So he got treated for the burn.
And while he was being treated, he definitely seemed to be kind of out of it.
And the doctors were very concerned about his behavior.
So he got Not admitted for a psychiatric evaluation and treatment.
Now, during this inpatient stay, Hayward told his doctors that it was actually federal agents that had set fire in his apartment.
And he said that the government was taking away his special powers.
So he's starting to really go through it.
Yeah. But sadly, that was another short stay in the hospital that didn't really do much to alleviate his symptoms. And in no time, he was out again and left to his own devices.
Now, later that spring, one of his former girlfriends actually introduced him to a woman named Patricia, better known as Patty Booer.
Like Hayward, she had a pretty difficult life.
In her case, though, it was for very different reasons.
She grew up in Olena, Ohio, and she spent a lot of her early years surrounded by family, but she did not come from the best family.
Oh, no. One of her family members was sexually abusing her until the abuse was discovered and they went to prison for it.
Oh, God. But at school and in the community, she was very well liked.
She did struggle with cognitive impairments.
And at school, she was identified as a student with special needs.
So she had people at school and in the community that looked out for her a little bit more.
Yeah. But because of what she felt like were impairments, she was self -conscious and kind of shy around other people.
Now, as she got older, she became a lot more scared of men in particular, I think because of what she had gone through.
Her diaries from the mid to late 90s suggest that she'd gone through a lot of traumatic events that caused her to form these negative associations with men and intimacy and all that kind of stuff.
yeah now those negative experiences were probably triggered again in 1994 when her father vernon was arrested for sexually abusing two girls oh my god that lived nearby he was a terrible terrible man he literally had bad to the bone tattooed on his forehead and when he got arrested it was almost like he was proud to admit what he had done oh that's fucking disgusting fucking horrible throw Throw him in a dank cave. And it's unclear whether or not he had sexually abused Patty as well.
But either way, his behavior had to have had her had to have made her fears and her trauma even worse.
When he was evaluated for a sex offender treatment program, this is how much of a monster he was.
He failed to meet the criteria, quote, because he did not have the mental capacity to meaningfully engage in it.
What? Like they couldn't.
They were like, he cannot be helped.
like he needs to be in prison wow he cannot be reformed wow that's how fucked up this is that's horrifying now at the same time so patty had all these diary entries where there was a clear clear signs that she was like very afraid of men and nervous about intimacy and stuff like that yeah but at the same time there were other ones where she was longing for affection and attention from a partner like of course because she probably just wanted it to feel like like it was right yeah Yeah, like exactly, feel right.
She was like, I want this, but it's scary.
But not like this. And this is all she's ever really known is people taking advantage of her.
But unfortunately, and I mean most likely because of the trauma that she'd experienced, she kind of struggled when it came to distinguishing positive attention from negative.
And she had a tendency to, this had a tendency to put her in the company of abusive or manipulative men.
That's sad. It is. Her Aunt Betty.
People took advantage of that.
of course absolutely it's fucked up yeah her aunt betty would later say she was never a very good judge of character when it came to boyfriends it's like i just wish that she had more people to help her out you know more people for backup being like hey i don't know about that one yeah but by december 1999 patty had been dating uh hayward for a few months and she was feeling very optimistic about their future she wrote in one diary entry there is a man in my life that But then she goes on in other entries to say things about them hadn't been going so well lately around this December 1999 period
and she was wondering at this point if it was time for them to split up.
Oh jeez. But she almost always, she almost seemed like empowered in later entries when she wanted to get away from Hayward. It was like she wanted more for herself and she was, it almost seemed like she was realizing that she could get more for herself.
And convincing herself that she was worth it.
Yeah. She said, I can't go on depressed anymore.
I feel like I have received a wonderful blessing.
I'm in touch with myself now.
Aw. So it seemed like she was kind of getting there.
Yeah. Now, by the winter, she was still unsure about her relationship with Hayward. On one hand, she was very determined to build a positive future for herself.
That didn't involve volatile or abusive men or people taking advantage of her.
Yeah. But then on the other hand, she still wanted a partner.
She still wanted somebody to love her and she also really wanted to start a family, which is awful.
And the latter feeling, I think, definitely explains why she was hesitant to break things off with Hayward. Yeah.
But still, the fact that the relationship was having struggles was clear, especially to her family.
One of her cousins, Rebecca, later pointed out, usually when she had a boyfriend, she would bring him over here.
She never brought him over here.
Talking about Hayward. Yeah.
In the six months that Patti and Hayward Bissell dated, multiple, multiple of her friends and acquaintances warned her that he did have a history of erotic, threatening, and violent behavior, and they were like, we're worried about you.
But she was either unable to or didn't want to see these issues.
She was very committed to making things work, and by January 2000, she was even more determined to make things work because she had achieved her dream of starting a family.
She was pregnant. right now on january 22nd she called a ton of her friends to let them know that she was pregnant that she and hayward were expecting they were more than likely confused and very concerned about this because things weren't going well at this point patty had actually told him uh told her friends on numerous occasions right before this that she was planning on breaking things off yeah he was controlling he was critical he was abusive to her to her at times and she was usually afraid of him.
Oh, that's awesome.
So her friends were really worried.
But every time she tried to break things off, he would do something, say something that convinced her to stay.
Yep. And now there was another person involved in all of this.
So she wanted to make this work.
Now, this is where the story kind of gets a little bit confusing.
It's kind of unclear what happened here because they go on a road trip.
So what we can assume is that Hayward must have wanted to tell his parents the news in person and he told him that he and his girlfriend patty were going to take a trip down to florida to see them they actually hadn't seen hayward in like five years at this point oh wow and they didn't know why he was coming to see them they just all of a sudden heard that he was coming and they were excited to see him okay um hayward late excuse me howard the father later told the sandusky register we expected him to visit but he never showed so later while he was was being held at the county jail hayward would tell
investigators that patty didn't know where they were going she just knew they were going for a drive oh geez so she wasn't prepared remember they're in ohio and they're driving to florida she wasn't prepared for this and she's pregnant so they left ohio on the afternoon of january 22nd and that day they made it as far as chattanooga tennessee and that night they stopped uh for the night at a motel but they didn't have any money to pay for a room so they slept in their car in the parking lot okay now the next morning they woke up to some pretty gnarly weather there was an ice storm the night before
that had passed through so everything was covered in a thin sheet of ice which was going to make the drive more dangerous to finish and because of that hayward was very on edge yeah because he was like irritated about the weather conditions and to make things worse he was already irritated before this with patty he was mad because she hadn't brought any money along for the trip i'm sorry dude what the fuck are you doing and also you didn't tell her that you were going where you were going you thought you were going on a drive she probably thought you were going to get fucking ice cream or something
like what the hell she has she was not prepared for this no of course not but i think he must have been in a mental state where that was not computing like this this was all just a disaster truly a traumatic disaster but that again she didn't even know they were going to be gone overnight yeah so he's mad that she doesn't have money he's mad about the weather conditions and he just starts driving kind of aimlessly he was looking for a western union so that he could ask his parents to send money so that they could finish their drive you know those photos sitting in your phone the ones that make
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Now, eventually they reach Somerville, Georgia.
It's a small town not too far from the Alabama border and it was there that they stopped for coffee at a Burger King around 7 30 in the morning and when Hayward pulled up to the drive -thru window he asked the lady at the register whether there was a flea market in town where he could buy quote weapons guns knives and stuff oh and she told him that there was a flea market but that they didn't sell weapons at the market and she said you could probably kind of find something of that sort at the local pawn shop like one of the pawn shops what a strange interaction yeah i can't imagine at 7 30 in the morning
being asked that question i can't imagine being asked that question really ever no and especially not at a burger king no definitely not fucking love burger king but he told her uh a pawn shop would take too long to deal with so she was like okay i would try maybe one of the markets just over the border i don't know what to tell you guys exactly she's like i'm just here to give you coffee so she was like yeah like cross the border in alabama find in one of the markets here's some kind of rough directions.
Now after that Hayward drove around for a while until he spotted a woman who was driving a green Nissan Maxima and for some reason he started following her as she drove and then she pulled into her driveway at her house and he pulled in closely behind her and just sat there with the car idling in the driveway.
So the woman kind of called out to them and was like hey like do you need help like what's going on but he just just sat in the car, just staring at her, not saying anything.
And she was like, what do you guys want?
And finally Hayward said that they were lost. But just as he was about to say something else, the woman's cat tried to get out of her house.
So she reached down to grab the cat and she just went back inside and like locked the door and didn't come back out.
I think she was. And that's why she was like that.
I almost think she was like, okay, I think this happened for a reason let me go inside yeah let me go inside the door yeah like something between us here something about this interaction didn't feel right it wouldn't feel right to me wouldn't feel right to me so hayward and patty sat in the stranger's driveway for a couple more minutes and then hayward just randomly pulled back out and started heading back the same way that they had come so now they're backtracking he never said why he followed this woman or what his plan was but I guess it's possible that he just needed directions.
I also think it's possible that he was going to hurt her.
I could see either thing happening.
This is just scary in all ways.
Yeah. I don't like it.
I thought you were saying it's scary in all ways.
Oh no, like in all ways.
It's scary. It's fucking terrifying.
So the woman at the Burger King, like I said, she kind of just gave him general directions to find the market.
But now at this point he's probably forgotten what she even said.
He has no idea where he's going and he's only getting more and more I was going to say he's getting more angry exactly so eventually they made their way back to Somerville Georgia where Hayward stopped the car in the middle of an intersection and just sat there again with the engine idling so two women who happened to be out for a walk went up to the car and said like oh like do you need any help like you're idling in an intersection yeah exactly and he said no I don't need any help I'm letting the transmission cool down in the middle of an intersection and they were like okie dokie we're gonna go
about better way yeah but later those women would tell investigators that during this exchange patty looked very upset oh they said that she was huddled up in the passenger seat and she looked like she'd been crying oh that breaks my heart it breaks my heart the story i told you is gut -wrenching multiple other people that same day would have would report having strange interactions would hate with hayward that afternoon and it was especially while he was driving around the Somerville area.
He was just stopping at various points to get coffee and asking bizarre questions or doing bizarre things, stopping to use the bathroom and doing the same thing.
And then around 3 p .m., he became very suspicious of Patty.
And he demanded to know, he said to her, are you 007 or the devil?
Oh, no. Yeah, this is a huge break in reality.
It's a very, very big break in reality.
And by that point, it was clear he had come to believe that Patty was either a double agent this is a quote quote a double agent or a black witch like meaning dabbling in like the black arts yeah and at this point he was determined to quote -unquote get rid of her oh no so shortly after accusing her of being a witch he claimed that he asked patty if she knew where they were and she answered telling him that they were in georgia and at that point he absolutely lost it on her he went full break from reality it's gonna get really intense here if you want to tap out of of this i understand here we
go at that point all of a sudden he just reached into the back seat grabbed a knife from the floor and cut patty's throat oh just that abruptly out of my god absolutely nowhere and he would later tell his cellmate i was just following orders i was her supervisor she was lying so i terminated her oh boy like he yeah did not have any understanding standing awful it's horrible but the murder set hayward bissell off on what he described to his cellmate as a rampage like we're not even done yet the autopsy findings would later note that patty's lower right leg was severed at the knee her left hand was severed
at the wrist oh my god and quote portions of her left lung liver and stomach were removed removed removed the cause Cause of death was the sharp force injury to her neck, meaning the first attack is what killed her and everything else happened after she'd been killed.
So she didn't have to experience that luckily, but her body did.
Now the autopsy also noted more than 30 stab wounds to her eyes, the bridge of her nose, and several sharp force injuries to her chest. He was gone at this point, like on another level.
That's wow. And later when the crime scene technicians process this vehicle they found blood on nearly every surface of the interior of that and there were even spots on the exterior of the car.
Now they think the murder most likely took place in the parking lot of the discount food mart food mart excuse me in Fort Payne Alabama which is a small town that is just across the border from Georgia.
Georgia that afternoon two men were leaving the store parking lot and they saw Hayward outside of the car with his doors open and they said he stared at them menacingly as he as they drove past and just as they were by the side of Bissell's car he grabbed Patty's head up by the hair held it up and they said as though he were proud to display what he had done what the fuck yeah Yeah.
Are you kidding me?
No. Oh, just really bad.
This sounds like a horror movie.
I was gonna say this literally sounds like a horror movie.
This is awful. It's just so sad.
Now, obviously, they were shocked and terrified and sped the fuck out of there.
Yeah. So, obviously, Patty's murder was completely senseless, insanely brutal, and both of those factors suggest that Hayward Bissell had become come dangerously paranoid at this point.
Like we've said this whole time, it reached a breaking point on this day.
Now, even what he did in the aftermath shows that he was not operating under a sane mind.
He believed that he needed to report what he had done to Patty to his supervisors.
So he strapped Patty back into the passenger seat and left that food mart parking lot and headed in the direction of georgia he drove about 12 miles until he got to the small town of mentone alabama and there he pulled into a stranger's driveway and just got out of the car oh god now it was january 23rd it was one day after he had left and james and sue pumfrey were at their home in menton multiple people in their neighborhood actually that day had lost power and water from the ice storms that i had talked about they lost power actually the night before so james and sue had had spent their afternoon cleaning,
collecting and distributing plastic jugs of water to their to their neighbors that afternoon.
And they got all the water from a nearby natural spring.
Like just went out and did that for their community.
So when Hayward, a total stranger to them, pulled into the driveway, their two dogs started losing it.
And James looked out the window to see what was going on.
And he said that's when he saw this large man coming up the driveway toward the house.
now he would have never opened the door if he actually had a very clear view of Hayward who was completely blood -soaked but he didn't see that and again he also especially wouldn't have opened the door to somebody who had rammed open the gate at the end of the driveway oh is that what he did that's what he did but damn from where he was standing James didn't see either of those things so being the kind and helpful person he was he stepped out onto the porch to to offer this stranger help just thinking like oh maybe this is someone in my neighborhood like maybe they lost power and i just don't
know maybe they heard we're handing out water and they need some you know so the first thing that struck james and his wife sue as unusual was how aggravated the dogs were by this man's presence they were two chocolate labs and they always liked people they never showed aggression to strangers labs will always tell you they will always always tell you if it's a bad person and they sure did james was shocked when hayward got close and one of the labs actually snapped at him oh see they don't fuck around like the dogs had never done that before and he was like oh this makes me nervous that's why
i love my little girls because they will they will always tell you who's a bad person exactly i love them so much but from what james could see from the porch it just looked like or it looked like hayward had struck back hard at the dog and sent her running back in the direction of the house so he spun around to see what had happened and called out to hayward did my dog bite you like he was like what the fuck is going on when he turned back around hayward was standing right in front of him and just punched him in the stomach oh my god just out of nowhere he later james later told reporters because just
know he survives this attack which is insane he said his hands were so big i didn't even see the knife he stabbed him.
So he had stabbed him.
Holy shit. Everything happened so fast he didn't even realize that he'd been stabbed until he looked down and saw that blood was pouring out of his stomach. So he backed up toward the front door and Hayward continued walking towards him, but just then the wife, Sue, called out and it actually distracted Hayward for a second.
So he, James, screams to his wife to stay where she is, but just as he was doing that, the dogs ran out to the porch and they started attacking hayward protecting their owners person i do want to give you a trigger warning for animal abuse so james and sue they were able to close their door and they were able to protect themselves but now hayward was left outside with their two dogs oh no while he fought off the dogs james managed to get a rifle and actually fired a warning shot before aiming the gun at hayward so he gave him a warning but now hayward had opened up the front door and was standing
in front of the couple at this point.
So James later said, I fired once.
Then I pointed it at him and it jammed.
Oh my God. Cause I was like, honestly, I'm so glad he's armed right now.
He said, you come any closer and I'll kill you.
And then he said that Hayward started hollering, don't shoot me and ran off.
Okay. You just stabbed him.
You just pulled, you broke through his, you drove your car through his front gate.
you stabbed him you hurt one of his dogs you started fighting his dogs and now you're standing in his living room and he has no fucking idea who you are but once hayward left the couple was able to survey the damage of what had gone on james had a large knife wound to his stomach and was still bleeding heavily and their dogs reese and coco had been killed hayward killed these two dogs james actually had to be hospitalized twice due to this attack and he ended up being out of work for months afterwards and on top of that they were incredibly traumatized i can't even imagine this just happened randomly
out of the blue sue later said i'll never forget his face and i'll never forget his eyes that's what caught my attention with everything going on so quickly his eyes were just unreal it was like he didn't have a soul oh my god that's so terrifying but But they credit their survival entirely to Reese and Coco.
I was literally just going to say what an awful end to this but it would have been much worse if those dogs weren't there.
Absolutely. Those dogs like protected their lives.
Protected them. And saved them.
And stopped him briefly like yeah.
It's insane. I just I wish that they had.
I know I wish they had survived.
I wish they'd survived.
But Sue said if it weren't for our dogs we wouldn't be here.
They saved our lives.
They were our angels.
That's going to make me cry.
I know. I hated that I had to include that, especially when you have two labs.
But Hayward Bissell left the Pumphrey's driveway and headed out to Alabama Highway 117, heading towards Georgia.
So he is in this state of mind still.
He has killed his girlfriend, who is still in the car.
Who is still in the car.
He has killed two dogs, attacked a man, and is back out on the road.
So it was late afternoon when he drove up behind Rhea and Donald Perch. They were a couple driving through Menton on their way home.
Rhea Purch barely even noticed the Lincoln Town Car that was riding their bumper until she felt their car get bumped from behind.
Oh, Jesus. So she figured the other driver must have just hit a patch of black ice because remember, ice storm.
Yeah. And she figured, oh, it was just an accident.
So she pulled off to the side of the road and started getting out of the car when her husband stopped her and said he would get out to exchange information with the other driver.
So she rummaged through the glove compartment as Donald walked around to the driver's side window, and then inside of the car she felt another jolt and heard, quote, a sickening crunch as Dawn began to shout.
When she looked up, she saw her husband holding on to the hood of the Lincoln that had bumped them, and the driver was speeding off.
Oh my god. It turned out that the bumper of Hayward's car had struck Donald in the legs, which made it so that he couldn't fall beneath the car.
Luckily, he was able to grab the hood and pull himself up onto it.
So he's literally holding on to this man's car.
He said, I was two feet from his face yelling, stop, stop.
What are you doing?
Why are you doing this?
All while he drove me about 200 feet down the road.
What the fuck? He is holding on to this man's car for dear life.
He was just driving with his wife a minute ago.
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so in response to donald's yelling apparently this is what donald said hayward only stared at him and gave him an obscene hand gesture what the fuck like he is not here right now beyond then he jerked the steering wheel which sent donald flying off the hood of the car to land Land in a ditch. Months later, he recounted, Donald recounted the story for a local paper and told them, at first, I thought he was just mad.
But when I looked into his eyes, I saw that he was a madman.
Wow. Now, wildly, Donald never even noticed Patty's mutilated body in the passenger seat.
Because he probably, I mean, he's hanging on to the hood of the car.
But he told reporters, excuse me, all I saw was his eyes.
I never saw the cut up girl next to him.
because he was probably focused directly on the driver just being like what the fuck and holding on yeah just trying to hold on to the car so rea ran to her husband who was now lying in the ditch with a broken leg two broken wrists and a shattered knee but he waved her off he was like you need to get off the highway and flag or you need to go down the highway and flag somebody down for help oh my god so she's running down highway 117 and luckily she locates a man named walter poland who was working uh on a on his field on his tractor that day he called lookout mountain fire and rescue and they
then returned to the ditch where donald was laying and in the meantime another couple james mccray and his wife were passing rea and donald's car and they saw donald so they pull over to stop and help now james mccray sees the state that donald is in and he's He's like, OK, like you need to call 9 -1 -1 to his wife.
Now, that was like the one of many calls that the now DeKalb County 9 -1 -1 dispatchers were getting about this hit and run now.
Like their phones are ringing off the hook.
So as Rhea, Walter Pullen, and the McCraes gathered around Donald waiting for the ambulance to arrive, Rhea notices the Lincoln Town car come back into view.
Hayward Bissell's car.
Oh, my God. It was hurling toward them, like speeding toward them.
and before anybody knew what was happening hayward rammed his car into walter poland's tractor oh my god and then slammed the car in reverse and aimed it instead at the group what that now had jumped into the ditch all together to protect dawn and to get away from the car oh my god and it's all these like strangers just trying to protect this guy like people working together exactly jesus So he paused for like several what they said were very long seconds.
Yeah, I can imagine.
And then put the car in drive and started speeding toward them.
These five strangers just laying in a ditch together.
God, how is this real?
They were all sure.
That's the thing. It sounds like a horrible, horrible movie.
But they were like, okay, we're going to die.
Like in that moment.
But he swerved at the last minute and took off down Highway 117.
So he was doing that just to terrorize them.
He's terrorizing them.
Wow. Exactly. Exactly.
So now police and emergency responders are making their way to this accident at the scene of the accident scene on the side, Jesus, of Highway 117.
And Mentone's police chief, Ken Busby, he was at a nearby gas station filling up his car for the day.
He was actually off duty.
This was his day off.
But he went out to survey the damage from the ice storm and wanted to see what he could help to do around town.
It's just a bunch of helpful people around here.
I know, the community.
So while he was paying for his gas, he heard the Bolo alert about the Silver Lincoln town car that had fled the scene of a hit and run and was now making its way towards Georgia.
And he's like, okay, I think I should get to it.
So he hops in his car thinking that he might be able to help now at the scene.
And he heads out on the road in the direction of 117.
Now, he only made it about a quarter of a mile down the road when he spotted the Lincoln Town car, Hayward Bissell, barreling down the road now in his direction.
So Hayward speeds past Bugsby and Bugsby managed to spot his license plate number and called it into the dispatch. So before he knew it, Hayward found himself at a crossroads in the road.
at this point now he is blocked in all directions by patrol cars because they come running out and their drivers are all standing around him with their guns drawn and aimed at him like this is a standoff so he revs the engine as this is happening and tries to drive the car directly in front of them but he only went a few feet and one of the officers was shouting don't do it don't do it and he revved the engine again but then stopped the car so officers approached the vehicle and they yank the driver's door open they were fully intending to yank him from behind the from behind the wheel but they
struggled to get him he's a very big guy yeah um now while several officers are struggling to subdue this guy they're realizing he's covered in blood yeah and other people are like the other officers are realizing that there's a ton of damage to this vehicle and so one of them went inside to put the gear shift into park and that's when he saw the bloody knife for the first time and realized that there was another person in this car and this person this officer said it actually took a few seconds for him to fully process what he was looking at until his brain started to register that it was patty's
brutalized body in human remains he said i thought it was a mannequin at first it was such an unreal thing to see you know it's it's so wild that everybody always says that i thought it was a mannequin i thought it was a doll and it's like so and i i'm always like it's never a mannequin it's never a doll but i'm like your first thought would never be that's a human that's a real person like that's a real thing you what i mean like especially my first instinct is always like it's never it's not a mannequin ever like it never is but i'm like i would think the same thing why would i ever think that that's
a brutalized human body excuse me i was taking a sip of water especially in the state that patty he was in exactly she had literally been decapitated and he's holding up her head at one point like that's awful it's insane it's this story is so scary so once he was removed from the car hayward was actually mostly compliant with the officers wow um they began to search him and he was letting them and sheriff's deputy lamar hackworth later said his arms were totally covered with blood as well as his shirt and pants and this officer also noted that hayward seemed to be covering his shirt pocket like
he was hiding something in there so the officer reached for the pocket to check what he was hiding this is gruesome and one of the other officers told him to leave it and let them finish searching him at the station but if lamar hackworth had searched bissell's pocket at that point what he would have discovered was a large portion of patty's his esophagus.
What? Her esophagus part of it was in his shirt pocket.
I don't know what I thought was in there, but that is not on the list. No. What the fuck?
This is, I think, the most brutal case that I have ever heard of.
Like at least one of them.
In terms of, yeah. This is, doing this this one was really difficult.
Yeah, this is horrifying.
So yeah, as the police began the booking process, investigators started putting together the pieces of what they discovered and realized this wasn't just a hit and run, but that they were actually now dealing with three separate crimes and this one person was behind all of them.
So the County District Attorney Mike O'Dell told reporters that who had assembled for a press brief at this point, quote, the whole set of circumstances is bizarre.
We're having a difficult time sorting it out.
we're not sure where the homicide occurred.
Like, they were like, we actually have no fucking idea what is going on.
So once they determined that Patty's murder had occurred in Georgia, the DeKalb County investigators called in the Alabama Secret Service agents to interview Hayward. Now, unfortunately, while he may have been relatively docile during the arrest, he became very, very agitated when they put him in a cell.
And the agents from Alabama were doing their best to get information out of him him regarding the murder, but really all they could get out of him was that he was on a mission.
That's what he kept telling them.
And to make matters worse, his unmanageable behavior was becoming kind of a safety concern.
Yeah. Since his arrest, he was destructive.
He was banging his head on the cell, on the concrete wall.
He actually broke the shower head off the wall in his cell and that caused water to spray everywhere.
He also tried to flush his pants down the toilet at one point so the toilet started overflowing so they were just dealing with like everything that you could possibly imagine all at once pure chaos now the next day hayward's bond hearing was held and it had to be held in the jail after he was determined to be too dangerous to transport like it should have took place somewhere else but they couldn't they couldn't move him they said for his safety and the safety of others we could not take him into court um but bond was luckily refused used by the judge i think they saw what they were dealing with yeah
and hayward was luckily finally going to be transferred to a secure mental health facility this time it wasn't voluntary or involuntary like you can't sign yourself out and you're not coming out but the sheriff's uh office would have to wait for a bed to become available there it is we were just talking about like the fact that they had to wait for a bed to be available for this guy like come come on.
So they were again, trying to piece together what had happened to cause Patty's death and the other attempted murders of the Pumphreys and Donald Perch. But Hayward was not giving them any information.
He was talking in circles.
He was telling them different conspiracy theories that he had.
He told them how Patty was a double agent, all this kind of stuff.
So he was given a public defender and his public defender Hoyt Bah, I believe is how you say the name, told the press he is definitely paranoid and definitely hearing voices which was true remember he's diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia but by the evening of wednesday the 26th now it had been three days since his arrest he had mostly calmed down he was still slightly agitated and a few days later he was able to be transferred to the bryce hospital in tuscaloosa where he would say he would stay until he was deemed stable enough to go through the trial yeah now in april a grand jury indicted
him for the attempted robbery and the attempted murder of james pumphrey and the attempted murder of donald perch and at that point he pleaded not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect and afterwards he returned to the hospital and there he would await word of a grand jury hearing for patty's murder okay but meanwhile the investigators traced his movements from alabama back to georgia and based on their on patty's dna profile they connected patty to the small pool of blood in the discount food mart parking lot wow so that's how they officially found their murder scene wow now after months
staying at Bryce Hospital Hayward was deemed competent enough to leave the hospital and he was sent to a jail cell in Fort Payne Alabama that June wow I don't know what had to happen there maybe he was put on proper medication at that point maybe um because remember he had been taking medication off and on yeah but in the time since his arrest he did become much more manageable and way less destructive but he was still largely uncooperative this is crazy though by the time he returned to his jail cell he had lost over 170 pounds and he refused to leave his cell he spent nearly two years bouncing
back and forth between hospitals and county jails while doctors were trying to stabilize him and while investigators and prosecutors were trying to figure out how to go forward in this case but finally it took Took two years.
In February 2002, two years after Patty's murder, Hayward Bissell did go before a judge in Somerville, Georgia, where he pled guilty but mentally ill to the murder.
Now, Superior Court Judge Christina Cook Connolly, she accepted the plea, and she sentenced Hayward Bissell to life in prison.
Now, the plea of guilty but mentally ill meant that he would spend the rest of his life in a prison suitable for his psychiatric care.
okay which thanks goodness yeah like that he could finally get some medication so that nobody else has to go through something like this rest of his life but okay with me need to be in jail yeah hundred percent and the georgia department of corrections is actually required to monitor his mental health and behavior while also managing his medications wow so i have to say it seems like this court system did everything that they needed it seems like it worked out in this situation like the the sentencing and punishment exactly so hopefully with them managing his meds and treatment he's in a better
headspace and is not terrorizing those around him but it's really tragic that it took what it did for him to get this kind of help it's horrifying and it's absolutely tragic that so many people's lives were affected by this when he could have gotten gotten help earlier yeah you know like like some of these people were just like like the the couple in james and sue just in their house just going about their day yeah helping people like everybody obviously but it's like he just he like sought out people to destroy their lives he did um but like i said i i got a lot of sources for you guys so if you
or anybody you know is struggling mentally or is in a relationship experiencing domestic violence we're gonna put all these these sources in the show notes, but I'll read them out for you now.
We have the Schizophrenia and Psychosis Action Alliance.
Their website is sczaction .org.
And they have a bunch of like education materials and support groups, which is awesome.
And then we have the National Alliance on Mental Illness, which is also known as NAMI or NAMI.
It's N -A -M -I .org. And they have general resources there for mental health and then we have the domestic violence us hotline number that's 1 -800 -799 -7233 and we also have the battered woman's justice project um we actually donated to them and we've met with them a few times and they are like an amazing resource their website is bwjp .org and they offer free legal help if you're going yeah that's amazing amazing any kind of domestic violence situation and finally we have the center for domestic peace their website is center for domestic peace dot org and they offer support groups amazing so again i'm
going to put all of those in the show notes for anybody struggling anybody that knows anybody struggling and just like take care of each other because this one made me really sad this is a really sad story it is all around and the thing is like we were saying in the beginning like you You want to think that we treat mental health differently now.
But it's still tough.
Still really tough.
Yeah, long way to go.
Yeah, long, long way to go.
So guys, I love you.
We hope you keep listening.
And we hope you... Keep it weird. But not so weird. Yeah, just not so weird. Bye.
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