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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.
I love all the different narrators. I love Audible.
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Visit audible.com slash morbid. On November 13th, 2022, four University of Idaho students were murdered.
Today, finally, the true story. Based on over 300 interviews, in their own words, family members talk about their heartbreak and grief.
Students and townspeople describe that terrifying night.
Police detail the dramatic investigation and arrest of Brian Koberger.
You've never read a true crime like James Patterson and Vicki Ward's The Idaho Four.
The true story, it's finally here. Hey, weirdos.
I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. It's morbid and we're waiting on some chilies.
That's what I have for you today. We got chilies for lunch.
We got a few recordings that we're doing back to back to back to back to back to back to back today.
So we're like, let's just let's supplement our lives with some chili cheeseburgers because health and wellness.
Honestly, shout out to Bridgette. It's Marquette, right?
Yeah. Marquette. Marquette. I always say it wrong.
Fuck my life. You know what? Bridget from Girls Next Level podcast, go listen to it.
It's fucking awesome. Yeah. If you're not listening, like, what are you even doing with your life?
Bridget has a name like my last name that, like, it looks... scary a little bit.
And it looks like, whoa, how do I say that?
And then you hear it and you're like, oh.
I know. And I'm like a really big fan of hers, as we all know, and Holly Madison, too.
So I really didn't want to fuck up her name, but I did.
Yeah, I think it's more cool. But anyway, I saw Bridget post a picture with a cheeseburger, so then I ordered a cheeseburger.
So thank you for that, Bridget. Bridget.
And again, go listen to their podcast, because they are two delightful human beings.
Their podcast is awesome. It's just like...
You know what? I was going to say it's light, but it's really not.
It's not. It's actually pretty heavy. Because, wow, the things those girlies went through.
But the way they present it is so light.
Yeah. I feel like I'm just choking. Yeah.
We get this a lot that people feel like it's like you're just hanging out with friends.
Yes. That's how I feel about their podcast.
I definitely feel that way. It's like a slumber party.
And they're one of the only podcasts that I'm like week to week, minute to minute caught up and just waiting for the next one.
Yeah. But you know what? They're great.
I have three podcasts like that. You know what?
Let me just shout them out because like love is love.
Love is love. Love is love. You know what?
Let's end this year with some love because is everyone all right?
No. The answer is no. Everyone's angry. Everyone's like there's just a lot of shit.
So let's end it on a good note. And 2023 is my wedding year.
So let's get it together. Let's say goodbye to 2022.
But no, my favorite three podcasts right now that I'm listening to like week to fucking week.
I'm like, I need it. Give me it. It's Oxygen.
Watch What Crappens. Yes. As always. Yes.
Girls Next Level. Yep. As always these days.
And Giggly Squad. There you go. So fucking good.
And it's nice. It'll get you through your day.
I think when this comes out, I'm looking at the calendar right now.
I think it's going to be in January. I think it's going to be 2023.
Yeah. Oh, my God. Happy 2023. Happy New Year, everyone.
Happy New Year. They're like, New Year was like 80 days ago, bitches.
We are also nowhere near January right now as we record this.
Yeah. We're weeks away. I don't even know what day it is, to be quite honest.
In the future, Happy New Year. ash happy new year you know what elena happy new year happy fucking new year i hope yourself i hope all of your holidays were beautiful and i hope you're ready to start this year and have a great one and feel good and be good and do good oh my god while you're listening to this it's officially my motherfucking wedding year there you go let's fucking go baby oh and you know what before we get into this episode i need to tell you guys a crazy story My dream.
Oh! Yeah. This is going to fuck your shit up.
Okay. So I've heard this thing where if you lucid dream, I don't know if you, I know some of you lucid dream because you've sent us like listener tales about it.
Yeah. Lucid dreaming. To our chat with Andrew from Let's Not Meet.
Let's Not Meet. Yeah. Lucid dreaming. I've heard this thing where you're supposed to, or you're probably not supposed to, ask people in your dream, like once you figure out that you're lucid dreaming.
Mm-hmm. ask the next person you see and anyone else you see what's the date and time and i always thought these things are kind of bullshit and i thought they were maybe just like everyone's personal experience and like you're like it's a tiktok trend yeah i was kind of just like i don't know but then i was like i want to try that though if i can like remember to do it but i figure i can never remember anything in my lucid dream like i can't remember to do something in my lucid dream but usually did But this time, this past weekend, I was lucid dreaming.
And I had this dream that somebody was chasing me with a knife.
And I like barricaded myself in a bathroom.
And then I realized I was lucid dreaming.
So I was like, oh, he's not there anymore.
And I opened the door and he wasn't. Because I was like, it's a fucking dream.
I can control this. It's a fucking dream, Ken.
And he wasn't, but two women were. And all of a sudden in my head, I was like, ooh, ask them the date and time.
So I was like, excuse me, ladies. Can you tell me what the date and time is?
And they both turned around and looked at me and was like, why would you ask us that?
And I was like, I don't know. I just really want to know the date and time.
And they were like, why? Why do you want to know it?
And they started yelling at me, getting in my face.
Could not believe I was at... It's like I asked them, like...
I don't even know. Like ask them something really personal about themselves.
They got that angry. So I like scooted through them because I was like, oh, get away from me.
You're terrible. And I was like, damn. And I came across John.
And I was in like someone else's living room.
And I saw John. And I said, John, what's the date and time?
And he grabbed me by the arms, which was terrifying in my dream.
Because that's not a John move. Because that is not a John move.
And he got right in my face and was like, what?
What? Don't ask that. Don't ask me that.
And he started yelling it in my face. I've heard this story three times now and I'm still as terrified as the first time.
And I like to fuck around and find out. So I saw a couple of people in the kitchen behind him and I yelled, hey guys, what's the time of date?
And they got angry and started coming over with him.
And all of them were surrounding me, yelling at me.
And I woke up as that happened. Alina gets into my car and she goes, dreams aren't what we think they are.
No, they're not. And I was like, sit down, girly.
What? There's a simulation happening and they get pissed when you start poking holes in it.
Something's happening. But guys, I couldn't believe that that actually happens.
Like, I thought that was bullshit. I fully thought that was bullshit.
I'm not trying it. But they get mad at you.
Ask your dream people what the date and time is.
I want to see if anybody gets the date and time.
Our friend Dave was saying, though, to be careful lucid dreaming.
Because you can get night terrors. Yeah, like walk yourself in a night terrors.
That's when you put yourself in a lucid dream.
Right. If you're just accidentally lucid dreaming.
Then you're fine. Go fucking ask people what the date and time are.
But, like, be prepared to be scared. Yeah.
Because that's a disheartening experience.
Now I'm going to start looking it up, though, looking more into it.
Because I was like, that was a wild experience.
The government's coming for you. Like, truly wild.
They're coming for you. Yeah. It was a lot.
But I just want to let you guys know that.
And with that, let's get into our case. Why choose a Sleep Number smart bed?
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The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption and magic.
Binge all episodes of The Mystic and the Mayor exclusively and ad-free right now on Wondery Plus.
Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or the Wondery app.
I don't know why I keep going into a place of like connections to Jack the Ripper.
I don't either. I don't mean to. It's literally just happening, so I feel like that's telling me something, like I'm going to solve the case or something.
Perhaps, but Tobias already did. That's true.
So maybe me and Tobias together are going to solve the case.
Maybe. I think so. Manifest. Manifest. So this doesn't technically have like a connection to the Jack the Ripper case, but it was during the same time period kind of, and people were using that case with this case.
So it kind of connects. Okay. So this is the case of Theodore Durant, the demon of the Belfry.
That's disappointing because Theodore is one of my favorite names.
Well, technically, his full name is William Henry Theodore Durant, but I know that you also love the name Henry.
Yeah, that's like my two future children's names, so that sucks.
So there's that. But this is a wild case.
There's a book called Sympathy for the Devil, the Emanuel Baptist Murders of Old San Francisco, and it's by Virginia McConnell.
Mm-hmm. I highly recommend you go read it because it's got a lot of good insights into this case and her particular insights into it.
And I thought they were very interesting.
So I recommend you go find it. Also, I'm pretty sure, and I will look for it.
Hopefully I can find it. I think there's like, you can read it for free online, I think.
I'll have to see if I can find it. Also, you should name your band that if you're a musician.
Sympathy for the Devil. We are Sympathy for the Devil.
Thank you, Cleveland. Hello, Wisconsin. I think that's great.
But yeah, do that. This is another case, like I said, that has some kind of weird connection to Jack the Ripper in the sense that the fear from it was rooted in Jack's murder for pleasure way of living because that was new.
Right. You know, this like this whole murder for murder's sake was not something people were used to at this point.
Usually it was for gain, you know. So this is the story of Theodore Durant.
He was a Canadian immigrant to San Francisco, California in the late 1800s.
He was a medical student known as a very kind, very giving man, and also was the assistant superintendent of the 21st Street Emanuel Baptist Church Sunday School.
Shit. Yeah. Lastly, he was a vicious murderer who was able to blend into society and blend into the world of decency without issue.
Weird. So he had a lot of layers. Yeah. But of course, with any case like this, there were people who thought he was... There was people who actually kind of couldn't and still now can't determine whether he did it or not.
He 100% did it. Okay. Like this isn't one of those cases where it's like, I don't know, maybe it was someone else.
Like 100% he committed these crimes. Awesome.
He was convicted of committing these crimes, but like... people will find any way to just go against what reality is at this point.
So there's that. But it's still a wild story.
It went across the nation. It went overseas.
It was a big story at the time. So let's talk about this asshole here first.
Like I said, his name was actually William Henry Theodore Durant.
He was born on April 24th, 1871. Although later, I think in part two of this case, I'm going to talk about the trial.
And he'll tell you, he doesn't even know if that's his real birthday, except he does.
So we'll get into it. Was he like trying to claim insanity or something?
No. No. No, just being a dick? No, he was just being a dick.
Oh, okay. He was just saying that, like, you know, he was trying to be very specific when they asked him what his birthday was, and he was like, well, by reports, it's this date, but, you know, I was there as an infant, so I don't know.
Wow. Like, he was literally, it's one of those.
His parents were William and Isabella Durant, and they had him in Hamilton, Ontario, and After their marriage, they had Theodore, and two years after Durant's birth, or Theodore's birth, his sister Ula Maud was born.
Ooh, that's a dope-ass name. It's a cool name.
She went by Maud and eventually became a famed dancer.
Of course she did, with a name like Ula Maud.
Yeah, which made her brother's later crimes even more shocking, that she was, like, this famous dancer.
Mm-hmm. The family had another boy in 1877, but he unfortunately passed away only weeks after birth from infantile convulsions.
Oh, that's terrible. Is that basically like a seizure?
I think so. And I think his name was Edward.
His name was going to be Edward. Oh. Now, apparently the Durants were not like a match made in heaven.
They were not turbulent, really, but people just found their union very odd.
She was apparently very ambitious and very excitable.
She was always on the go and sounds kind of like an extrovert.
His father, on the other hand, was allegedly very, quote unquote, drab and boring.
Of course, opposites can attract. I was going to say.
But his father also like had an unpredictable personality, not like an exciting sense, but in like a scary, moody sense.
So people just were kind of like, I don't know about you guys.
But they had both met when they were working at the Charles and Hamilton shoe factory in Toronto.
She left to be a homemaker once they had Theodore and he stayed working there.
So according to Virginia McConnell, who wrote that book that I mentioned, Sympathy for the Devil.
Sympathy for the Devil. It seems like William the father may have suffered from bipolar disorder.
Okay. That's what Virginia is surmising from her research.
He had some unstable moods. Like I said, his behavior was a little unpredictable at times.
And this may have been exacerbated by their son Edward's tragic and untimely death.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Again, that is not like a blanket diagnosis over all bipolar disorders.
No. This is just what she is surmising from what she read.
Okay. That's all. Now, William traveled to England a few times for unspecified treatment for his, like what he had going on mentally and was not present in the home a lot as the kids were growing up.
Isabella, however, was there 24-7 and she formed a very strong bond with her children.
Which means Theodore was there with his sister and his mom 24-7.
Also, it seemed kind of like Isabella was like, sure, sure, you go.
We're fine here. It was kind of one of those things where the dad was just not really around.
Yeah. He was doing... Treatments, you know.
Probably like, I mean, there wasn't a lot understood back then about mental health.
Exactly. So it was probably annoying to her that he was going through mood swings like he was.
So she was probably like, yeah, just get out.
I got this. Right. So it became kind of she was the main caretaker.
Now, in 1878, William returned from one of his treatments in England, which we don't get any specifics for what these treatments were or what they are for.
It's just kind of like his treatment, quote unquote.
Yeah. So he comes home from a treatment in England and told his family he was going to move to San Francisco, where he believed he could get a better job and make more money.
San Francisco, California. Is he taking them with him?
Well, he said he was going to, but not right away.
He said once he got himself stable there, he would bring out the family.
Okay, I can kind of understand that. Kind of set everything up, get a job, get a place to live.
Yeah, get it all set for you guys. But again, Isabella was left alone with the kids.
So in 1879, he eventually did bring them to San Francisco.
So the next year, he brought them to San Francisco.
Triple mild. to get set up. Sure did. But he was not able to hold down a job because of what he was going through.
Because of his erratic moods, because of his erratic behavior.
He just wasn't able to hold down a job. He had a lot of outbursts and it was left unchecked at this point.
So employers at this point and at this time were definitely not willing to deal with that or understand it.
It's so sad that we didn't know back then what was happening.
They just weren't willing to know. But things got so bad that the whole Durant family had to move in with William's parents for a time because otherwise they would have just been without a place to live.
Oh, man. Theo, however, was doing all right.
Okay. He was popular with his peers and his teachers said he was a good student, never got in any trouble.
He especially excelled at things that let him get his hands busy and tinker with things.
He liked mechanical stuff, technical stuff, electrical things.
He reminds me a little bit of Peter Sutcliffe in that way.
Yeah. In that manner. Sure. But he eventually went to Cogswell Polytechnical College and took more classes involving engineering and electrical things.
And he registered for the 1891 semester at Stanford University.
Shit. Unfortunately, likely due to his family's financial woes, he was unable to attend that semester.
And it did bother him. So instead of letting it just stop him in his tracks, though, he did end up enrolling at San Francisco Cooper Medical College in 1893 and decided his love of tinkering and opening things up to explore would serve him well for a medical degree.
Which is not a bad idea. His mother really steered him in this direction with the hopes that he would be able to make money and raise his social standing.
Yeah. Which was huge back then. 1890s, like, social standing is everything.
Yep. Classes were very distinct back then.
And he did. He did well in school. He received very high grades as a result.
He was also known to take extremely meticulous lecture notes.
And he would share them with anybody if they asked.
Oh. So he was a very nice guy. Yeah. As we will see through this entire thing, this is not one of those like, yeah, like he wasn't, they didn't really show any signs of what was to come.
It's not one of those. It's like, oh no, he literally went out of his way to help people.
It's weird. And like people knew him as a very kind, genuine, not at all weird human.
Huh. Yeah, this is a very strange case in that sense.
It's very weird. It's like he just he must have been hiding some deep, dark shit.
But I think something may have helped unleash it.
But it's weird. This one's a weird one. I'm interested.
Yeah. So Theo had learned to work with what he had, basically, both financially and fashionably.
He was not a bridge troll, but he was slightly different looking when it comes to, like, the beauty standards of that time.
Okay. I don't think he was, like, ugly by any stretch.
I'll let you know. No, I'm just kidding.
But by the standards of the time, he was shorter than most men.
He was 5'5". Which does not translate into unattractive, but it gave him a little bit of a complex in his own mind.
He had very wide set eyes, which were very noticeable.
Okay. And apparently he had a notably misshapen head.
Wow. Which I'm like, how do you even tell that with hair?
Yeah. Like, I don't know about that one.
I'm looking for a pic right now. And then they said he had, like, bigger lips, which I was like... That's, like, an attractive quality by today's standards.
What's happening here? Like, and then you look at pictures and you're like, yeah, I wouldn't... He's a pretty normal looking dude.
I just wouldn't even notice. Like, I'd just be like, hello, sir.
Yeah. Like, it wouldn't excite me. It wouldn't repel me.
I wouldn't... I don't really see anything misshapen about his head.
Right? But it was very much stated that he had a misshapen head.
Weird. But instead of focusing on those things that may have brought his confidence down, he really decided to focus on the sartorial part of his life.
He was going to be a fashionista. Yeah. He was impeccably dressed at all times.
And he would actually put away clothing that was out of fashion or season.
And this was not easy to do on his budget at the time.
He didn't have all this extra income. But he made sure he always had what was in fashion.
It was always in season. He always was put together.
Stacey and Clinton would be so proud. They would.
He didn't put all of this on his parents either.
He didn't because you're thinking like, okay, so his parents are having to pay for this fucking wardrobe of his.
But apparently he didn't want to do that because, again, he was a weirdly nice guy for some period of time.
He got himself a job at the Morning Call, which was a daily newspaper in the area.
He became a delivery boy and he did other things around it and he saved all of his money.
He gave some of it to his parents. Wow. And then socked the rest away to buy himself things like a bicycle and other things.
Wow. He would eventually move on to work at a lot of department stores across the city.
He also did clerical work at the Mannheim Insurance Company.
And he was known to be very handy, which again is very disconcerting when you hear what he eventually was convicted of doing.
Oh, great. He would use his skills to help out, like his electrical, tinkering, technological skills.
He would use them to help out friends and family and neighbors.
And he became known as the handyman who would help you out in a pinch for anything.
Wow. You had electrical issues? Theo will come over for no charge and he'll help you out.
That's crazy. Just because. Eventually, he actually became the volunteer handyman at the 21st Street Emanuel Baptist Church.
He would paint, repair anything around the church.
He would build things for gatherings. He would build stages for the events.
He was giving. He was kind. He was helpful.
What the fuck happened? I don't know. Well, I can tell you what I think at least contributed to something snapping that was already there.
There had to have been something already there.
You don't do what he did, and we'll obviously get into it, without some kind of darkness being inside of you.
So in the spring of 1894, Theodore contracted a, quote, near fatal case of viral meningitis.
Which is the inflammation of the lining of the brain caused by a virus or bacteria.
It can be life-threatening. It has severe consequences, especially back then.
Nowadays, we have antibiotics and medical intervention that makes this just not what it was once.
But this was a mixture of no medical advances in this area and horrific sanitary conditions because of the 1800s of it all.
Yeah. Yeah, there's always that of it. Yeah.
And it would make this illness pretty fatal most of the time.
He contracted it, a very severe case of it.
And his mother, Isabella, was the one to actually nurse him back to health.
But he lost 40 pounds during the illness.
Holy shit. And according to the previously mentioned source, the quote, there was undoubtedly some neurological damage.
Yeah. So boom. So that's what I think kickstarted some of these thoughts he was having and some of these things he was doing.
Because we talked about how by the standards of the day, I guess, like he was shorter.
He was like the wide set eyes or something like that.
I don't know. I don't think he's even that wide.
I don't think he's unattractive. I know.
I'm not like, woo. But it's like, No, I'm just like your guy.
Yeah. You're just like your man. That's fine.
But apparently he had some kind of complex.
I don't know if somebody had said something to him or what.
But he had to pretend. And I do believe it has to do a lot with stature.
I think stature had a lot to do with it back then.
Like 5'5", not that tall. Yeah. And he wasn't like a big guy there.
So I think then it was like important to be tall and really like statuesque.
I didn't even know that. I mean, Napoleon did like things, didn't he?
He did things. Well, he Napoleon complex.
That's what I'm saying. But you know, he did stuff.
Well, that's the thing. It's not right, but it's, you know... It's not right, but it's okay.
But it's okay. But I think he tried to make up for it with a lot of bravado and a lot of, like, I'm, like, a god.
I'm this, like, sexual prowess. A very much a Napoleon complex.
And so I think that inflammation there, that meningitis, definitely... popped something off that made him feel more obsessed with that like it almost like kick started a lot of obsessive thoughts okay i feel like that yeah it's the only thing i can point to to be honest and it's the only thing anybody can it's like there's nothing else that's what it's i mean that's what it sounds like from everything you're saying Hey, weirdos, we need to tell you about something that has completely blown our minds collectively.
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There does, obviously, you can point to as well, there is some kind of mental illness that is running through the family as well.
But again, mental illness doesn't equal murdering people.
So it's like you can't point to just like, well, his father had something going on.
That's like, I think there had to have been something.
Yeah. So the next year, on Wednesday, April 3rd, 1895, this was the next year after he had, like, recovered from this illness, the family of 21-year-old Blanche Lamont, and this is 21-year-old, by the way.
Mm-hmm. barely out of teenage years. I know what's going to happen now that you've specified that.
They were beginning to panic a bit on this night because she had not returned home after that afternoon she had a violin lesson and it wasn't like Blanche to disappear without notice.
Blanche had moved to California recently from Montana and she had been a school teacher in Montana but she was in California taking courses to further her education.
She was staying with relatives in California.
So she had last been known to be with her friend, Minnie Edwards, who was questioned.
And Minnie told investigators that she indeed was with Blanche that day that she went missing.
And together they had left classes and were waiting together for a streetcar to come.
All right. And if you look up like what, we can post some pictures because I have this really old ass book that I found that is called Report of the Trial of William Henry Theodore Durant.
She is holding it right now. It's like leather bound.
It's this cool old ass book. But in it, they have a lot of pictures of like the streetcar and all that stuff.
I'm interested in that. So we'll try to post, I'll make sure those pictures get posted with this.
But it's interesting. So they were waiting for the streetcar together.
And as they waited, Minnie said, they were talking together, just chit-chatting about what they were going to do.
I think they were making plans together.
And she said, a man came up behind them and clearly knew Blanche.
And she said he tipped his hat towards her.
All right. And then offered to carry her books for her.
So this is the 1800s version of flirting, basically.
And they all got on the streetcar together, but Minnie said she went on the inside of the streetcar and she let them sit on the outside, which again, when we post the picture, I think it'll make a little more sense.
Okay. Part of a streetcar is like outside seats where you're just like sitting almost like a trolley.
Or, like, even, like, a hayride where, like, you can sit in the middle or you can sit on the edge of it.
Yeah, and, like, the outside of it was literally, like, you're facing out into the street and it's open.
Yeah, okay. And you're just sitting there.
I can picture that. But then there was, like, a fully covered inside.
So Minnie said she sat on the inside because she wanted to let them just...
She was like, clearly they know each other.
She's being a good gal pal. Yeah, she was like, they seem to like each other.
Like, I'm just going to give them space to catch up.
She's got a mind her own. Like, good for Minnie.
She was just trying to be a good gal friend.
Now, several other witnesses corroborated Minnie's story and remembered seeing this man because apparently at this time, it was not allowed for women to be in the company of men at the school.
Oh. So this many Karens were out there taking notes this day.
Scandalous. And weirdly, not one of them could give a physical description of this man.
So they weren't taking like proper notes.
Yeah. So I'm like, I don't know. You weren't doing your job.
Too busy gossiping. A woman named Elizabeth Crosette told investigators that she got onto the streetcar and saw one Theodore Durant sitting on the seat next to a young lady and they seemed to be enjoying each other's company.
Elizabeth recognized Theodore because he was friends with her grandson, Jim.
And she liked Theo. She thought he was very kind, very helpful, very generous young man.
In fact, she knew him to be such a gentleman and so helpful that she was older.
And so she was just about to approach him on the streetcar and ask him to be her hero and help her get off the streetcar at her stop.
Because she knew he would. Yeah. She was like, absolutely, he would do it.
But she said before she could get to Theo, Theo and this young lady she didn't know got off together at the 21st Street in Valencia and started walking together in the direction of the Emanuel Baptist Church.
Okay. She was able to say all that. Okay.
So the woman, there was another woman who lived across the street from the Emanuel Baptist Church.
Her name was Caroline Leake. She told investigators that she also knew Theo very well because he was the church's handyman and also was the assistant superintendent of the church's Sunday school.
He passed out the hymn books at the services, was an officer in the Young People's Christian Endeavor Society, and served as usher on most Sundays.
Damn, Theo is doing it. The most. Yeah. She also said she saw Theo out her window that day when, what was her, the Elizabeth Crosette, what Elizabeth Crosette said that they had got off the streetcar.
Caroline Leak said, I saw her hit Theo out my window and that he was with a woman that she didn't recognize and they were walking towards the church.
I'm trying to keep this all noted, but now I just have Melissa Etheridge stuck in my head.
There you go. Come to my window, you know.
But she was certain of this because she also had a Karen moment and thought it was very imprudent for this young hussy of a lady to be walking into church with a man alone.
They're going into church, Chica. Yeah. Like, calm down.
She was so bothered by this that she sat by her window to watch and see when they came out together.
Wow. She said she sat for a long time, but they didn't come out.
What a creep. Yeah. So what we have is we have just to give you a quick little rundown.
We have Minnie Edwards, who is Blanche's friend.
One, they were standing at the bus stop, the streetcar stop.
Theo walks up and says, hey, girl, hey, and they start flirting.
Direct quote. They get on that streetcar.
Minnie kind of sits away, but she sees them get on the outside of the streetcar.
We got Elizabeth Crosette, who knows Theo very well, saw Theo in the presence of Blanche.
She didn't know it was Blanche at the time, but later said, yes, that was Blanche.
Didn't know her, said they seemed to really like each other.
It was really cute. She was going to ask Theo to let her off, help her off the streetcar, but he had left on the stop for the church.
Then we got Caroline Leak, who knows Theo, knows him very well, seems to take a liking in him as well because knows every fucking thing that he's ever done, Caroline.
And she's looking out her window. She sees Theo in the presence of a young lady who she later said, yes, that was Blanche Lamont.
They were entering the church together and they did not come out.
I'm nervous about this church, because every time you keep saying the church's name, your eyes do this weird thing that says to me, Ashkel, remember that church?
Remember that church? This was the last anyone saw of Blanche Alive.
Yeah, I had that feeling. She entered the Emanuel Baptist Church with Theodore Durant, and she never came back out.
Okay. So immediately the following day, she was reported missing.
Since this story included, and remember, the 1800s of it all.
Since this story included the salacious bit that she was last seen alone with a man, they assumed she ran off and eloped with him.
Where are my pearls? Now, this sounds crazy, because you're like, this random man that, like, yeah, she knew him, but, like, she's just running off and eloping with him?
Right. This wasn't completely out of left field, because Theo and Blanche did know each other.
Minnie was a new friend of Blanche's, so what Minnie didn't know was that Theo and Blanche had dated, pretty seriously.
Oh, okay, okay. So when Minnie was saying, like, this guy came up, I didn't know who he was, but they seemed to kind of know each other.
They did. Minnie was a new friend. She just didn't know that they had dated.
They had history. They dated pretty seriously.
Pretty seriously in the sense that it was like three months of dating.
But back then it was like, well, you might as well propose now.
I was going to say that's a whole courtship.
Exactly. And before this event happened, it was like months earlier, he had proposed.
Yeah. oh shit and she had told him it's not a no but it's not a yes i would like to slow things down okay fair so she said i'd like to slow things down i'd actually like to call this off for right now just let me have some time okay but like maybe just let's see what what else is good like i just want to slow it down that's all all right i want to take a step back from this relationship i'm not sure if this is what i want So she had basically called it off.
She had technically rejected his proposal.
But people took this like, I just want to slow down.
We'll see what happens later. As like, well, maybe she changed her mind and just decided to elope with him.
Okay. I can see that for sure. It's just people reaching as like, hopefully nothing bad happened to her.
Yeah, yeah. So that Friday, there was still no sign of Blanche, and that happened on a Wednesday.
Is she? And no one had heard from her either.
And now it was starting to get to be a scary situation.
They were trying to keep this from turning into tabloid gossip and getting more salacious.
So the family kept a lot of the details quiet and weren't telling a lot of people besides investigators.
They just didn't want to ruffle any feathers here.
And the investigators were just quietly working to find her.
This led to Theo Durant actually stopping by the relative's house where Blanche lived.
He stopped there on that Friday and dropped a book off to her sister Maude and dropped the book off and said, I promised Blanche I would let her borrow this book.
Can you give it to her? And her sister was like, Um, she's not home.
And he was like, and at that time she was missing, but he didn't, she didn't want to let him know that.
Of course. Because they were supposed to keep it quiet.
They're being quiet, right. And he was like, oh, where is she?
And like asked questions and was like, but seemingly a court, like Maude was like, now looking back on it, it almost seemed like...
Oh, really? Like she's not home. Weird. Like almost like he's enjoying the fact that her sister had to play.
So it's like, and to me, this is a perfect way for him to just use this as like, I didn't know she was.
I didn't. I even brought her a book. Right.
I loaned her a book on Friday. That's how much I didn't know that she was missing.
So the next week was when everything came public because the family couldn't keep any of the secrets any longer.
Now they just wanted everybody to know because they just wanted to find Blanche.
So they opened up everything and now police actively were speaking to anyone Blanche may have been with or dated at any point.
I'm confused because they interviewed a lot of former suitors, but not the one man who she was seen with that day.
Theodore Duran. They didn't interview him.
They really focused more on this man named Tom Vogel, who was a doctor that she had dated.
Okay. Now, Vogel pointed this out and said Theo was with her that day.
Like, several people are saying he was with her that day.
But even her family was like, no, that's not possible.
Like, Theodore had nothing to do with this.
And they literally said, no, not possible.
How sad is that? Because I'm getting the sense that Theo did this.
And you know what? That's how much of a front he was able to put on and have people buy.
At this time, too, her sister, Blanche's sister, Maude Lamont, actually posted ads in the classified sections of the newspapers in the area that said, Blanche, no matter what has happened, come back to me.
And she never got a response. My heart.
By this time, news was flooded with the details of this case so far.
They'd printed the details. Now they were finally printing details of Theo being the last one to be with her.
Here we go. And now about their relationship that they had.
So gossip started formaling, but it formally...
Forming, but it was mostly just kind of like harmless gossip at the time.
No one actually believed Theo had anything to do with Blanche's disappearance.
Okay. It was more now people were like teasing Theo about it because they were like, this is bullshit.
Like, that's so crazy. So they'd be like, oh, Theo, like, did you really do that?
And he's like, oh, well, no. Like, and they were like, of course not.
Yeah. I hate that. Nine days after Blanche went missing, another woman connected to Theodore Durant was supposed to be showing up at a party.
Who's that? And this party, well, the party that she was supposed to go to was Tom Vogel's party.
Oh, shit. There was a lot of, like, inner hanging out here.
Well, class. Exactly. And she didn't show up to this party.
This woman was Marion Minnie Williams. I know there's a lot of the same names, too.
Makes sense. You know, 1800s. And again, this is not to be confused with Minnie Edwards, who was Blanche's new friend.
No, this is Minnie Williams. Minnie Williams had met Theo through the church where she was working as a, quote, domestic worker.
So she was a maid. Yeah. She was vivacious and brought a lot of life into anywhere she went.
In fact, she too, like Theo, had come from Canada.
And when she first moved to California, she settled in Almeida.
And she got work as a maid for Clark Morgan, who was the former head of the California Casket Company.
Shit. That's macabre. She was apparently not a great maid, but they kept her because the family adored her so much and came to think of her as such a happy presence in their home that they were like, I don't even care that she's not that great of a maid.
I like to think that's why the pub that I worked at kept me for so long.
That's 100% why. Not a great waitress, but I'm fun.
But you're great. Yeah. But she was that kind of person.
She was just like a really awesome person.
Right. Now, after she had taken on a job at the church in San Fran, that's where she met Theo.
He had just gotten out of a relationship with a woman named Flora, who was in a much higher social class, and was actually engaged to her for a small period of time, but they had broken things off, too.
Oh. And he showed a great interest in Minnie when she showed up.
So he was very interested in her, but then quickly showed her that he was very interested in having a sexual relationship.
But at times they were different. And unmarried, it was forbidden.
Yeah. Forbidden. And honestly, Minnie was of a lower social class than he was.
So there was several things going against this whole thing.
And Minnie was a respectable woman of the time and wasn't going to give in to his crazy desires.
So after they dated a bit, he got bored.
And that's when he moved on to Blanche. I see.
Okay, okay. So Minnie, what people think is that Minnie was a maid.
He had just dated someone named Flora who was way higher class than he was.
Yes. So reports came out that he had very much tried to have a sexual relationship with Flora as well.
And she was like, no, no, no. I'm not married to you.
Right. And so he looked at that as like, okay, well, she's not because she's a respectable higher class lady.
But Minnie's just a maid. Like, what does she talk to?
And it's like, that's literally what he was thinking.
Like, she's lower class than me. So men are trash.
And when Minnie didn't, he got annoyed. It's true.
Not all men. This man's is trash, that's for sure.
And when Minnie wouldn't do it, he was shocked and probably a little shamed because he was thinking this was going to be easy.
Yep. And then he decided to move on to Blanche, who was pretty much in the same class as he was.
Okay. A lot of class shit happening here.
So he moved on to Blanche. And so at the time of Minnie's disappearance, she was actually, Minnie was, interested in pursuing Tom Vogel.
Oh, wow. This is wild. I know. This is a love rectangle.
It's very much like Peyton's Place. What's that?
Wow. It's like an old show. I probably should have seen it.
Melrose Place? I know what that is, but I didn't watch it.
But okay. But you know, it's like a scandal of shit.
Sure. It's like Vanderpump Rules. Okay, let's go.
It's like that. Yeah, there it is. I was like, wait.
I know I know something relevant. That's literally it.
So this is why that evening that Minnie did not show up at this party, she had put on her fanciest dress and got her hair done because she was meeting Tom Vogel at his party that evening.
Oh, and do you think he was interested in her?
I think he was. I do too. I'd like to think he was.
She had to take a train and then a ferry to San Fran.
Oh, she was committed. She was committed. witnesses later came forward to say that they actually saw Theo Durant at the San Fran ferry terminal.
Imagine that. And he was clearly waiting for someone.
Charles Dodge, who was a fellow student with Theo and a friend from the Cooper Medical School, actually talked to Theo at the ferry entrance.
In fact, he reported that he made a joke because of the recent headlines and said, Durant, what have you done with that girl you made away with?
And he was obviously talking about Blanche.
And another man named Frank Seidman actually stopped and talked to Theo at the ferry entrance.
He was the janitor for the church or one of the janitors for the church. and knew Theo very well.
Seidman told police that part of their conversation included Theo telling him that he was at the ferry because he was looking for Blanche.
What? He told him he had, quote, received a clue that she will be leaving the city and going over to East Bay.
Okay. Like, what are you doing? Like, sir, do you have her body?
That's everybody. So he was basically being like, I heard something that said that she was going to be leaving on the ferry.
So I'm here to try to intercept her so I can bring her to her family.
Okay. I'm a hero. Yeah. Even after this interaction with a witness, yet another man who he was friends with saw Theo.
And his name was Adolph Holm, which, sorry about that name, bro, who was another friend from school.
And he saw him walking with a very short young woman.
And this woman was wearing what he referred to as a turban around her hair and a cape.
Minnie Williams had left her home for the part of...
For the party. For the party. That evening, wearing those two things.
Because she had gotten her hair done. Exactly.
She didn't want to mess it up. Perhaps the most damning witness report was from Alexander Zenger.
He lived down the street within eyesight of the church.
So he was kind of like Caroline Leak there, who was across the church.
He was just like one over from her. A busybody.
And he was a regular parishioner there. He had recently heard gossip.
And maybe this is why Caroline was like, they're going in there unattended.
Because he had heard gossip that young people were sneaking into the church late at night to like, fuck.
Fuck in the church? Y'all, I know that's a sin.
I know that's a sin. Before the land of Jesus, like what are you doing out here?
That is not good. And he was not about to let this happen under his watch.
I don't even think I'd let that happen under my watch.
He was peeking out that window and he saw Theo and Minnie enter that church around 8 p.m.
Theo is with Minnie in the church now, too.
Minnie in the church. He had taken her from that ferry terminal.
They had walked to that church, and he was entering with her.
He needs to get out of that church. He has had relationships with both Blanche and Minnie.
Mm-hmm. Now, he was on, again, like I said, he was on his own Karen bullshit watching like a hawk.
So he said he watched the whole time. And an hour later, at 9 p.m., he saw Theo exit the side door of the church and Minnie didn't leave.
So did anyone go to that church and say, let me check that out?
No. So at 9.30, only a half hour later, Theo showed up at Tom Vogel's door where the party was because he was invited to the party.
Oh, I know. These are all friends. Party.
Tom said, Tom Vogel said that Theo looked a little disheveled and frazzled.
Uh-huh. And that Theo told him he was sorry he was late, but he, quote, had trouble catching his horse at the armory.
I bet. Yeah. Vogel noted that he was a little weirded out.
And he also said he noted that Minnie Williams never showed up to the party and she had planned to attend.
And he wanted her to be there. He did, I think.
I know. And her family said she never made it home either.
Now we have another missing young woman and nothing had moved in Blanche's disappearance at this point.
Then the following day after Minnie went missing, April 13th, Blanche's aunt, her aunt Trifena Noble, I believe her name was.
That is a boss ass bitch. Yeah, there's some cool names in here.
She received a package in the mail. Now, again, this is the day after Minnie went missing, April 13th.
When she opened this package, there was one page of newsprint from the Examiner newspaper, and it had the names George R. King and Professor Shustine on it.
Okay. Now, I don't know why, but she opened the newspaper page, and inside was another sheet of paper that was folded like an envelope, kind of.
And when it was opened, inside were three rings.
Okay. all having belonged to Blanche. Ooh, I don't like that.
Yes. So Detective Edward Gibson was called to check this evidence out, obviously, and he had seen this as a very bad sign for Blanche's recovery alive.
Yep. He wouldn't have time to mull this over, though, for very long because the exact same day, Minnie would be found.
Oh. A woman named Lila Berry was waiting for some women to arrive at the Emanuel Baptist Church.
They were going to be doing some kind of function.
And while she was waiting, she and some of the other women decided to pass the time reading.
Okay. So Lila went into the closet of the church library to show a woman named Mrs. Nolte where the books were kept.
And when they opened the door, they were met with a gruesome scene.
Oh, no. There in front of them, Minnie Williams was on a table spread completely eagle, clearly deceased.
There was blood all over the floors, the walls, the books.
They panicked. Yeah. And sent for Reverend George Gibson, which seems like his name should have officer in front of it.
Yep. But nope, they got the pastor. They called the pastor.
He's not legal, guys. Like, we gotta call the legal people.
You gotta call the legal people. Call the legal people in here.
So Reverend Gibson did the sensible thing.
And when he saw the body, he called the Golden.
Nope, he didn't. He called the Golden Gate Undertaking Company and asked them to please remove the body secretly from the church and not let anyone know about it.
Why? Because he didn't want to scare parishioners.
I think it might come out that she was found there, because here we are today.
Yeah. So then the Undertaker came and was like, this is a literal murder scene, you actual idiots.
And he called the police. The Undertaker was the one that was like, no, no.
I'm not just going to remove this body. That's illegal.
This is like the worst game of telephone ever.
Like, are you fucking kidding me? So he called the police.
He was like, what the fuck? He also called Tom Vogel because he was the closest doctor.
Oh, shit. Which would act as a temporary coroner here, even though they actually have a coroner.
Holy cannoli. Isn't this like very scandalous and wild?
It is. Yeah. Vogel was obviously shocked to see this woman with Minnie Williams.
Oh, and that's just so terrible for Minnie, too, that he... Yeah, he was the one who had to do it.
They reported initially that she was lying spread-eagle with her party dress pushed up above her knees, and a knife handle was broken and lying on her chest.
Okay. When the coroner actually came and made his report, he said after a more thorough examination, this was a brutal slaying.
They had found strips of cloth shoved down Minnie's throat.
What? The strips had been torn from her own undergarments and they found a sharpened stick that had been used to forcibly shove the fabric down her throat.
Oh, my God. They actually found that the stick had been pulled from a table that she was lying on, and the killer had had to sharpen the stick with a knife before using it to push the fabric down Minnie's throat.
Oh, my God. There was a deep laceration on her forehead that went down to her nose and was bleeding extensively.
There was lacerations on multiple parts of her body, but her wrists were cut and her hands were almost completely, it said so deeply, they'd almost been severed from the arms.
Holy shit. Both of them. Yeah. She had also been stabbed several times in the chest with such force and rage that the knife had broken and the blade was still in her chest.
Oh my God. The handle was left lying on her chest.
Also, it was a butter knife. What? She had been stabbed with a butter knife.
That hard that the handle broke off? And hard enough to penetrate her heart.
With a butter knife? With a butter knife.
Do you know the force you have to use? So he was little, but he was strong.
And it's like the force you have to use to get a butter knife through someone, even a dull scalpel won't cut through flesh unless you give it a good pop.
Force, yeah. But a butter knife? Wow. It was also discovered, unfortunately, that Minnie had been violently raped before and after death. oh my god her cause of death though was thought to be asphyxiation from those pieces of fabric being shoved down her throat so she was alive when that happened yep and it was probably to keep her quiet Initially, he placed her time of death at around midnight the previous evening, but this was the initial examination.
But after an analysis of her stomach contents, he actually revised that time of death and said, actually, I'd say about 8.30 p.m. the previous evening.
I don't know if we want to go back really quick.
I do. But our little pal who was watching out to see if people were fucking in the church.
Yep, yep. He saw the mentor around 8.30, 8 o'clock basically.
And then he saw Theo leave at 9. Yeah. 8.30 p.m. is a perfect time for that to have happened.
And then he must have, he like cleaned up in the church somehow.
Yeah. himself up i mean yeah he must have now when they searched the area they quickly knew this person had to know their way around the church that room was not known to everyone and the piece of the table used and sharpened was not something that people would know was there to pull off also the knife he used was one of the church's kitchen knives so he knew so he had to go into the kitchen find that and be able to use it So news spread quickly that there was a murder in the church.
So calling the pastor didn't really work out for them.
And they put together that there was probably a connection to the missing, the disappearance of Blanche Lamont.
Definitely. Some papers were very typically 1800s and said in headlines that the body had been, quote, hacked to pieces with a dull table knife.
Nice. Well, that is pretty true, to be honest.
Like, that's a pretty salacious headline.
Yeah, I don't think we need to put that out there.
They also said that the assailant had evidently possessed all the ferocity of Jack the Ripper.
Okay. Now, Blanche and Minnie, again, they both had dated Theo, and they knew each other.
They were acquaintances. Oh, wow. They ran in the same circles.
Wow. What? Yeah. The media also pointed to the connection, obviously, with Theo to be like, ha ha, I think we have our guy.
And everybody spotting him with these women.
All the witnesses and Minnie's own friends pointed fingers at Theodore and were like, I don't want to believe he did it, but that's the only fucking thing I can think of.
Well, and then was Tom Vogel like, yeah, he showed up disheveled as fuck and frantic to my party.
He gave that to investigators. Yeah. And according to one article, Theodore, quote, had written to Minnie yesterday asking her to meet him in San Francisco.
Oh, bitch, you put that in writing? Yep.
And she did. And it says that it was the Sunday Oregonian or Oregonian.
Probably Oregonian. Oregonian, right? Yeah.
That makes sense. I think so. In 1895, it said, but she did not look upon his advances with favor.
I mean... Because she was like, you're a bitch.
Yeah. And he probably got mad at her. Well, and who broke off... She broke off their engagement?
Yeah. I think it was one of those, like, I think it was, like, a mutual thing where she was like, I'm not going to sleep with you.
And he was like, well, I'm bored now. And she was like, then you can get fucked.
So she was probably like, fuck you. You're a fuck boy.
And then he's like, meet me in San Francisco.
Because then he immediately went to Blanche.
So she was probably like, okay, asshole.
Like, no. I wonder, oh, my gosh, she must have been scared, too, because she knew that he moved on to Blanche.
And it's like, and now Blanche is missing.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. So Detective Gibson was certain that they had a connection, that Minnie and Blanche did.
For sure. And a killer that was common for both cases.
And even though they had not found Blanche's body at this point, he was convinced that they would find her soon, and he was 100% sure they would find her on the church grounds.
Oh. And that is where I'm going to end part one.
You bitch. But don't worry, part two is only like, what, like 12 hours away, 24 hours away.
Oh my goodness, girlfriend, you're killing us.
But I'm telling you, there's more. The trial is pretty wild.
We still have the discovery of Blanche. Yeah.
It's a wild one. This one really interested me.
I'm here. I'm ready. I'm ready for part two.
I think we should record it right now. Sorry, everybody else.
I think we're going to. Oh my God. So stay tuned.
And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird.
But not to worry that when somebody doesn't want to date you anymore, you don't murder them because like, wow, you could date so many other people instead.
That's like a healthy coping mechanism. Bye.
Yeah, don't do that. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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