Episode 377: The Towpath Murders | Morbid

Hey weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go.

It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion.

No ads, just you and early access to new episodes.

You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast.

Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar.

Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, and new ways of thinking.

Listening can lead to positive changes in your mood, your habits, and ultimately your overall well-being.

Audible has an incredible selection of over 1 million audiobooks, podcasts, and Audible Originals all in one easy app.

Find the genres you love and discover new ones.

Explore bestsellers like my sister's title, new releases, plus thousands of included audiobooks, podcasts, and originals that members can listen to all they want with more added all the time.

I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.

She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.

And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.

I love all the different narrators. I love There's more to imagine when you listen.

Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free.

Visit audible.com slash morbid. Morbid is sponsored by Squarespace.

Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online.

Who doesn't want to stand out and succeed?

Get you a girl who can do both. Every dream needs a domain.

Squarespace domains make it easy to find the best name for your business at one fair, all-inclusive price.

No hidden fees or add-ons required. Every Squarespace domain comes with advanced privacy and security tools included to ensure that your domain remains online and protected.

Plus, Squarespace provides everything you need to bring more of your dream to life, whether that means building a website or adding a professional email service.

Squarespace gives you everything that you need to offer services and get paid, all in one place.

From consultations, events, and experiences, showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business.

Plus, streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools.

Head to squarespace.com slash morbid for a free trial.

And when you're ready to launch, use offer code morbid to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.

You seem to be questioning that. I'm questioning my sanity lately is what I'm doing.

I don't even question mine anymore. I just know she's simply not there.

I don't question it. You just accept it.

Lately, I just keep saying simply like I'm like, we simply don't.

I like that. You know, we simply cannot do that.

It honestly makes everything sound more adorable.

Yeah. Because it's like, oh, I simply will not do that.

That's simply not happening. I simply will not do that.

Thank you so much. Thank you for checking.

I like that. And you know what? It's funny that we're speaking like in slight British affectations here because my case is from... britain whoa the case i was just working on involved the royal family so that's weird there you go we're connected we are one and you know why and even more so because i'll get into the case in a second but my case happens during the coronation festivities of none other than queen elizabeth the second whoa yeah that's wild and weren't you just looking up something for a case about like her great great grandfather or something Yeah.

Oh, fuck. I just did it. I think it was her great-great-grandfather.

Yeah. Or her great-great-great-grandfather.

He was great. He was an awesome grandfather.

He was such a cool grandfather. He was the V111.

There you go. So I don't know what number that is.

He had to abdicate. Isn't that the 8th? Sure.

I think V is five. V is totally lying about that.

Definitely five. I know that. V is five, and then I think you add the other ones on.

Oh, okay. Yeah, because Henry was V111. So, yeah, you're right.

And he was the eighth. Yeah. There you go.

Look at me. Roman numerals. Working on a case that involves Edward before he was king.

Well, there you go. Edward VIII, presumably.

Well, technically, my case is it's not about Queen Elizabeth, but it happens before she was queen officially.

Ooh. So there's that. So much royal. So much royal.

Ooh. And speaking of, like, royal in the UK and all that fun stuff, I just wanted to shout out a podcast that I, like, I came across the podcast when I was researching this case called And it was a really cool podcast.

And I just wanted to let you guys know that if you're not listening to it, you should.

Excuse me while I find the name of it. It is the Murder Mile podcast.

It's Murder Mile UK. And it's hosted by Michael Buchanan Dunn.

He has done an amazing job. His sources are outrageous.

He uses a lot of really, really original, old, old sources.

He does tours in the UK about these things.

He's really good at it. And I just wanted to tell you to listen to him because he's great.

You should, because I really like the surname Buchanan.

I do, too, like Daisy Buchanan. That's my immediate thought.

Not like Tom, though. But there's actually a couple of things in this case that he was able to uncover that were really interesting.

So if you listen to this case and you're like, wow, I would love to hear even more, head on over there.

And he's got a lot of stuff, and he's got a lot of cool cases.

So this is the case of the Towpath murders.

Okay. I originally found this case because I was looking at the show Murder Maps, which I've mentioned before.

I think I found like Bermondsey Horror on there and stuff too.

It's such a cool show. It's like, it's very, it's so funny because Ash is like, my show's like snapped and mine is Murder Maps.

And it is a very good representation of us as people.

Because Murder Maps is like really old. Like a lot of like European cases, but like super old.

Yeah. Just a bunch of, like, older British men talking about these cases.

Like, that's my speed. I like the, like, salaciously scandalous things.

Yeah. You're a salacially scandalous kind of human.

Yeah, like, right now I'm working on something that involves an affair.

An affair. A lustrous affair. A torrid affair.

Actually. So go watch Murder Maps, too. It's a cool show.

But this is the Topath murders. And like I said, it happened during the festivities surrounding Queen Elizabeth II's coronation in the 1950s.

And the first attack in this series of rapes and murders happened nine days before Queen Elizabeth II was officially crowned queen.

Ooh. Now coronations are a big deal. You've seen Frozen.

Yeah. Like it's coronation day. It's a big deal.

Even fucking Rapunzel comes. Exactly. Rapunzel and Flynn Rider.

Yes. Come. There you go. Now they're a big deal, especially this one.

People from everywhere came to London to experience the excitement, the new hope that was coming along with this coronation.

Like it was a big deal, according to all the British people that I listened to about this.

All right. But again, I was not there. I don't know.

But the weather had taken a turn for the better in London.

I think they had dealt with like this crazy like fog smog deal for a while.

What's up with you and weird weather? Yeah, I don't know.

Sorry to interrupt, but like what's with you?

I'm sorry. I don't know. What's with you?

What is with you in the weather? Well, this weather made a bunch of people sick.

It like killed people. Like it was like a really bad situation.

But then we were in a really good stretch of warm weather at this point.

This is taking place in 1953. And there was like warmth, sunshine, you know, sticking around for a while, which is pretty unusual, especially in London.

So it had this whole feeling associated with this like new beginning, like every they were coming out of a massive depression.

Like it was just, it was all feeling very hopeful.

You know, people were still dealing with all the stuff from the war.

It's just like a whole, you know, sunshine is like a, you're like, I'll take it.

I'll take some sunshine out of all this.

Every now and again, you need a little Mr. Sun.

Golden sun. Thank you. Please shine down on me.

So because of the weather and the party atmosphere surrounding this coronation business, there was a lot of people just out and about.

And in Teddington by the River Thames, there was a huge stretch of meadows and open land that teens and young adults would, like, they would basically camp out on the banks.

And they would have, like, picnics. And it had this, like, it was almost like a festival atmosphere, but without the capitalism.

Cool. Love that. It was just, like, just people hanging out, picnicking, camping.

Yeah. Just fishing, going on boats. Like, really cool little just carefree atmosphere.

Yeah. I like it a lot. This was all needed just to set the scene of where this is going to happen, by the way.

So May 24th, 1953, a young man, only 22 years old, waited on Oxshot Heath and attacked a 14-year-old girl who was walking her dog out of nowhere.

He walked by her and then, or excuse me, she walked by him.

He was on a bike, a blue bicycle. She walked by him.

He just kind of stared at her, ended up turning around, farted. following her.

And once she was on a more secluded path, I'm not going to say her name, by the way, because she is alive, but she was 14 years old and she was brutally raped.

Now, he followed her, waited until she went to a more secluded path, and then he, out of nowhere, snuck up behind her and swung the blunt side of a hatchet at the back of her head.

Oh, my God. He then dragged her into the bushes and violently raped her.

Then he just left her there. Oh, my God.

Now, luckily, she lived and was able to describe her attacker, even though she had just been violently raped and literally axed in the head.

Like had head trauma for sure. She said he was wearing blue overalls.

He was younger. He had brown gloves on, which it was like warm out.

And he had crepe-soled shoes and had a black saddlebag and a yellow and black axe or hatchet.

She also said he had a cleft chin and was big, like strong big.

Ooh. Now, his description was released everywhere.

And a man named Harry Bedford ended up calling police shortly after this to say he had seen the news in the man's description.

And he said he felt like he had actually seen this man.

And he said he had walked by him. It was off the towpath and near like Oxshot Heath where this crime occurred.

And he said that he saw this man throwing knives at a tree.

And he said he was wearing the same thing, like appeared to be the same guy.

So police, and he was like, I just saw him.

So he might still be there, by the way. So police show up and he's there.

So they bring the man in for questioning.

That man was 22-year-old Alfred Whiteway, Alfred Charles Whiteway.

He was questioned, but they kind of didn't have anything on him besides he was wearing the same outfit and, like, was in the same area.

Right. But, like, that's not—you can't really do that.

So he was questioned, and he said he had an alibi, so they released him.

I guess they even, like, apologized when they released him.

Like, sorry for taking up your time. Yeah.

That brings us to Sunday. So, of course, this crime is just kind of, they don't know who did it.

They're going to still look for people, but they haven't found anyone yet.

So that brings us to Sunday, May 31st, which is only a few days later.

This was on Teddington Lock, which is where I was talking about that people would camp out near the River Thames and Teddington Lock.

Festival minus capitalism. Exactly. This is where three teenage boys, John Wells, Albert Sparks, and Peter Warren, were camping out by the river at Teddington Lock.

Just keep this in mind because this is kind of important to the story that these three boys were camping out on Teddington Lock at this point.

They were going to be there for a few days, just kind of like hanging out, having fun.

Also around the area at this time was 18-year-old Christine Reed and 16-year-old Barbara Songhurst.

They had taken their bikes out to ride around the tree line that day, around the campsites, just kind of saying hi to people.

It was a towpath that ran from Teddington to Richmond, and they rode this pretty regularly.

This wasn't like a new thing. They were always riding their bikes down here.

Now, 16-year-old Barbara was actually going to be participating in a bathing beauty pageant that was going on as part of the coronation fun.

Go off, queen. They were both best friends.

They were very sweet. They didn't get into any trouble.

They were just like wholesome, the two of them.

And they were beautiful. They were close with their families.

They always returned home when they said they would.

And they were described as very modern women.

They were ahead of their time. You look at their outfits, too, in any of the pictures, and you're like, you were just cool.

Yeah, because you showed me one photo of them, and you can tell they have something.

Yeah, and everyone who knew them said that they just liked to have fun, but super chill fun.

They were just good people to have around.

Everybody liked them. Now this day they were headed, they weren't just riding around their bikes around the towpath.

They were headed somewhere particular. They were headed to the campsite with those three boys that I mentioned before.

Hell yeah, brother. Now one of them knew the boys.

I don't know which one, but Barbara and Christine obviously had been best friends forever.

They go everywhere together. So if one of them was going, the other one was going.

Oh, and it was always so exciting when you were like a teenager and your girlfriend knew some cute boys and like, There were no parents around one weekend and you'd go like hang out with the cute boys.

It's true. Like that, like idea of like, we're going to ride our bikes to this campsite where these three cute boys are.

It's like, oh my God, they were probably so excited.

And just like, that's so fun. Like, you know, that feeling.

And it's even more adorable because they rode their bikes like down the towpath to the campsite.

And then they just hung out. They talked.

They were playing like every source I saw said they were playing like hide and seek and like chasing each other.

They kissed. Yes. And like just really adorable, wholesome shit.

Yeah. All the boys maintained later, all three of these boys said like nothing happened.

Like nobody was having sex with anybody.

Like this was all very wholesome fun. Like your head out of the mud.

They literally were like, because unfortunately later this does come up as something that they need to ask these boys.

And all of them were like, this was literally us like chasing each other around like little kids.

Like that's what we did. Very, very. Yeah.

And not, I don't, words. Very, very not salacious or anything.

Yes. It was very wholesome. Just the stuff that you remember doing when you were young, you know.

So they got back on their bikes during the afternoon after they had had a lot of fun.

They went back to Christine's parents' house to have lunch.

Then they got back on their bikes and came back to the campsite.

Hung out for longer. Got back on their bikes.

Went back to Christine's. Had tea. Because tea.

Tea time. Love that. They had their tea and then they went back out around 8 p.m. to the campsite again.

They made it to the campsite. They hung out there for longer.

Apparently, we're having a great time because they're just coming back each time.

And they hung out there until sometime a little before 11 p.m.

And that's when they said, you know, we have to get going.

And the boys all said that they walked them to the tow pass.

I think I read in a couple of sources that one of them handed them a light to put on their bike.

Yeah. But then I also saw in a couple of sources that they had lights on their bike, but only one of them worked.

So I'm not quite sure. So maybe it was both of those things.

Yeah, it could have been a combination of both.

But they were going to be going back to their homes for the evening.

I think Barbara was staying with Christine.

They were just having like a sleepover. Yeah.

Now they were riding together down the towpath and it was dark, obviously.

But Barbara was a little up ahead of Christine.

She was just riding a little faster. Yeah.

Now, Barbara had a flashlight. She did have something attached to her bike.

And in the sources I saw, said that Christine might have had one too, but it was broken, so it wasn't lit.

Now, Barbara's bike, and this is another thing, because no one was here to say exactly what happened, it goes both ways.

One of them, their bike toppled. We think it might have been Barbara's bike that toppled.

And Christine saw this happen and was like, what the hell just happened?

How did she fall over? So she was worried and she stopped her own bike, got off and like ran to help her because she was a ways up the towpath.

Sure. But before she could reach her friend's bike on the ground, a man stepped out from the darkness with an axe and swung it into her head.

Oh, my God. Immediately knocking her unconscious.

Now, 8.15 a.m. the next morning, June 1st, George Costner was inspecting a wall near Twickenham, which is along the River Thames.

And he spotted something strange in the river.

And this was near St. Catherine's Convent, just to give you a little more geography here.

When he looked closer, he said he could tell very quickly that this was the body of a young girl floating in the water.

He immediately called police. Now, when they pulled her out, they could tell that she was a teenage girl.

And she had been hit in the head with an axe and also in the cheek.

She had also been stabbed at least three times in the back.

Jeez. Yeah. And when they brought her in for an autopsy, they could tell that she had been raped before she had been dumped in the water.

Her skull had been fractured by an axe blow.

And when they finally were able to make an identification, they found out that this was 16-year-old Barbara Songhurst.

16 years old. 16. Now, apparently the pathologist described her attack as being carried out by a, quote, expert rapist.

What the fuck? Like, maybe choose a different way of wording that.

Yeah, I'm not sure. What that means or how that is determined, but it's horrific all the same.

Right. You would just say, like, this person unfortunately has experience and knows what they're doing.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it was a little confusing to me, but I was like, OK, so because like you said, afterwards, he came out and said, like, it was clear that this man had done this before.

Right. That's all you have to say. Exactly.

Which is like, OK. And it's also like, how, though?

Like, tell me how you know that. Right. I just can't.

Maybe my brain can't wrap around it. But either way, really sad.

And Detective Superintendent of Scotland Yard, his name is Herbert Hannon, started the investigation into this horrific crime now.

Hmm. They say that time waits for no one, neither should Payday.

To keep your money moving in the direction of your dreams, get Earnin'.

What is Earnin', you ask? Honey, Earnin' is an app that lets you access your pay as you earn it up to $150 a day with a max of $750 between paydays.

Earnin' is the app that is helping millions of Americans take charge of their pay and avoid falling into debt traps.

And Ernan's mission is to make financial momentum accessible to everyone.

It's your money, so put it in your own hands with Ernan.

I just feel like Ernan is good for so many things.

Like, you know, every now and again you get in your car and you say, oh, wow, who knew that I was on empty?

I should have known that, but I didn't. And then you look at your bank account and you're like, oh, crap, I haven't been paid yet.

Well, no. You'll never run into that problem if you have Earnin.

An unexpected trip to the vet will not ruin your day because you'll have the money to pay for it.

Download Earnin today, spelled E-A-R-N-I-N, in the Google Play or Apple App Store.

When you download the Earnin app, type in Morbid under Podcast.

When you sign up, it will really help the show.

Morbid under Podcast. Earnin is a financial technology company, not a bank.

Access limits are based on your earnings and risk factors.

Standard cashouts take one to two business days with no mandatory fees.

Expedited transfer is available for a fee.

Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service.

Available in select states. Terms and restrictions apply.

Visit earnin.com for full details. Download Earnin now and take control of your pay.

Some cases fade from headlines. Some never made it there to begin with.

I'm Ashley Flowers, and on my podcast, The Deck, I tell you the stories of cold cases featured on playing cards distributed in prisons designed to spark new leads and bring long overdue justice.

Because these stories deserve to be heard, and the loved ones of these victims still deserve answers.

Are you ready to be dealt in? Listen to The Deck now, wherever you get your podcasts.

Now, they brought in frogmen, they're called, which are trained police scuba divers.

They call them frogmen. Oh, that's interesting.

I never heard that before. And they had them search the river.

And apparently, while this was all happening, upwards of 20,000 people were on scene.

Damn. Because of the Teddington River pageant, which was happening as part of the coronation festivities.

And was that the pageant that she was going to be a part of or no?

I don't know. I was actually looking to find that out and I couldn't find an answer to that.

I wonder if it was, to be honest. That's so horrific.

Yeah, exactly. And what's even crazier about this is they just pretended this was part of the pageant.

Locating a dead body? They had frogmen in the water.

And people were like, oh, what's going on?

And they're all kind of just looking around.

And they were just like, oh, don't worry about this body search, everyone.

It's not that at all. Like, we just have these guys here as part of the pageant.

What? And apparently they had to announce to the crowd over the loudspeaker, we are not looking for bodies.

We are only here for the pageant. Like, why would you be here for the pageant?

And also, like, if somebody didn't realize, like, if somebody wasn't thinking that those were police scuba divers, then you've just made them be like, wait, what?

Like, why would you be here looking for bodies?

Right. Like, no one's thinking you're looking for bodies.

What the hell? That's like going to steal the cookie from the cookie jar and saying, I'm not going to take this cookie from the cookie jar.

Like, you shouldn't announce that. You brought attention to the fact that there are frogmen in the water now.

Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious.

Conspicuous. Truly. Like, come on. Truly.

Now, while they were searching the river, they weren't finding anything.

And they were looking for clues at this point because, again, they don't know that there's two girls missing.

Right. Now, they're also looking for the murder scene because they don't know where this happened.

So they're looking around the area. They ended up finding it.

It was very close by to where they had found the body.

And it was near a tree. They could tell it was the murder scene because blood was soaked all over the ground.

Right. Because this was like a very, very violent crime.

Very violent. Because he had essentially stepped out from behind a bush while she was riding her bike, swung an axe at her head, knocked her off her bike unconscious, dragged her into the brush, raped her, and then stabbed her three times in the back.

And presumably did the same thing to her friend at the same time.

Exactly. Now they found blood all over the grass, the ground, like near this tree.

It was horrific. So now they're like, okay, this happened right here, clearly.

So now they're looking around being like, there's got to be more clues around here.

So they searched into the brush surrounding the towpaths and they find something pretty quick.

They find a pair of women's shoes. And they're like, okay, this must be hers.

And they find some socks. They're like, okay, he threw them in here.

But they're still searching in that area, and they find a second pair of women's shoes.

Oh, no. And they're like, well, wait a second.

And these aren't old. These aren't dirty.

They haven't been here for a while. These are new shoes that were thrown in clearly at the same time the other ones were.

So now they're like, wait a second. Where's our other body?

Yeah. Now, Christine Reed's silver and blue bike was discovered two days later on June 2nd in the River Thames.

And they realized this was not Barbara's bike.

And now they've talked to the families. They found out that Christine and Barbara were together.

And now that they know they've identified Barbara, they know they're looking for Christine.

And now they've found Christine's bike, but they don't have Barbara's bike.

So the assumption was that whoever killed them jumped on Barbara's bike and ran away with it.

Ah, I see. So Barbara, again, Christine is still missing, but it wasn't until four days after on June 6th that her body was also discovered floating in the water near Glover's Island.

Oh, no. She, too, had, like you said, been hit in the head with an axe.

She was stabbed in the chest over 10 times.

Oh, my God. And she had been brutally raped.

And what's horrific is, like, they had been brutally raped as they died.

Right. Yeah. And pathologist Keith Mant later reported that the killer of these women must have been a monster as strong as an ape.

He was like, the strength it takes to subdue two young women and do what he did to them and then throw them in the water, like drag them somewhere and throw them in the water.

He's like, this guy's strong. And at this point, have they realized that the first incident is related?

No. Not at all. Oh, they haven't realized it at all.

Okay. So right now, this has just happened.

They've already released Alfred Whiteway on suspicion of that rape of the 14-year-old girl.

So now they're sitting here and they have not connected these two at all.

It's taking everything in me not to be like, is it him?

Is it him? I mean, I did just do that. Now.

The search for clues continues because now they have two dead bodies.

They have one bike. They know there's another bike.

They know there's more here. So they bring in dogs.

They even, Detective Superintendent Hannon even had them drain the River Thames.

Wow. Not the entire thing, obviously, but like a big portion of it, like a section of it.

That's a big deal. And they like were going through the mud on the bottom, like looking for things.

They weren't finding much of anything. They went door to door.

They asked if anyone knew or had seen or heard anything.

900 servicemen from the Bushy Park U.S. Air Force Base in Teddington were questioned.

None of them knew anything. The only thing they could really get was they talked to the three boys that they had spent time with at the campsite.

They got their stories, were able to check it out that they did not follow them into the towpath and do anything.

They didn't have any kind of thing to do that.

And they all agreed like we did not, nobody had sex with anybody that night.

Like they must have been raped because we did not do that.

And they also talked to two other boys who had been camping on the lock, like a little ways down.

And they said, actually, we heard screaming, like women screaming around 11 p.m.

And we had checked to see if we could see what was going on, but we couldn't find where it was coming from.

And then they were like, and we heard it, and then it stopped.

So we just... Figured we didn't know what to do at that point.

We're teenagers. Yeah, and at least they tried to find the source.

Yeah, they tried to, like, locate it. And when it stopped, they were like, okay, like, I guess.

And it's not like they could whip out their cell phones and report anything.

Again, this is 1953. Exactly. Now, this was also 11 p.m. is right after or around the time when the three boys watched Barbara and Christine leave the campsite.

So this lines up. Now, initially, they were working on the assumption that probably two men had carried out these crimes because there's two victims.

It's pretty brutal. Both had been raped.

It's like, that's a lot. And it was actually a man named Duncan Webb, who was a crime reporter for the News of the World at the time. who was in town and reporting on this, and he suggested it was likely not two men, but more likely one killer.

And he's like, I know it sounds crazy because this is a lot, but he said that the injuries in MO were the same.

So it would be strange for two men to be involved and do the exact same thing to the victims.

At the exact same time. That's a really good point.

Yeah. So he was like, that's weird. He was actually questioned because he happened to be in Teddington the night of the murders.

So when he came forward and told them I was in town, they were like, you need to be questioned.

He was released. He had nothing to do with it.

But when I looked at Duncan Webb, because I was like, that sounds familiar, that name.

When you said that, it actually sounded familiar to me.

He was dubbed the greatest crime reporter in the world.

In the 50s. Holy shit. And they were like, we're going to need to bring you in for some questioning.

We don't believe you. But he had actually, he had done tons of exposés.

He covered a ton of like organized crime shit.

Oh, hell yeah. And he had actually been physically attacked a ton for his reporting.

Like he had been and put himself in a lot of danger.

That's the thing. That's a scary job when you're like.

Oh, yeah. Like in the thick of it reporting.

Oh, yeah. That is freaky. Scary. Now, according to The Guardian, it says, quote, by only 37 years old, he had been slugged, kicked, lunged at with knives, shot at, knuckle dusted and was once the target of a speeding automobile that raced onto the sidewalk of a narrow Soho street and tried to smash him against a building.

And my only takeaway from that is knuckle-dusted.

I knew that was going to be your only takeaway.

Knuckle-dusted. That means punched, right?

Knuckle-dusted. That's fucking great. That's so much better than a knuckle sandwich.

A knuckle-dust. I'm going to knuckle-dust you real quick.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's just a punch.

That's what it is. Yeah, like my knuckles are dusting your face off.

Yeah, your knuckles are pissing me off. But that was just like an interesting little side thing.

Yeah. Because I was like, whoa, Duncan Webb, that's crazy.

He's lived a life. He has. I'm telling you.

Go look him up. Now, one month after these murders, on June 12th, a young man of 22 attacked 56-year-old Patricia Birch.

I've heard 22-year-olds before. You have, haven't you?

She said that he rode past her on his bike, and she said he definitely saw her.

He made it very noticeable that he had seen her, and he stopped.

And he apparently started following her like a fucking creep.

Ew. And then out of nowhere, she said he grabbed her and tried to force her into the bushes, but she fought back.

Jesus. He also, like, bandaged a knife and said, I know how to use this.

And she was like, okay, no. What a fucking loser.

Yeah. I know how to use this. Yeah. And it's like, okay.

We all know basic cutlery, sir. We all know.

Yeah. No, she fought back, like I said.

And she ended up offering, she said, why don't you just take the contents of my purse?

Like, just take my purse. Because she was like, I'm not being, no.

Like, you're not attacking me. She said, you know what?

I'll bargain with you. She literally was like, take whatever money's in my purse.

Like, not worth this. Like, bye. Wow, good for her.

And he did. It worked. She was able to convince him to go away and just take, I think it was like 17 shillings.

Now... She described him later to police, obviously, because she was luckily able to get through this without being physically, like, truly physically harmed.

And she said he had a cleft chin. He was strong and sturdy appearing.

He was also wearing overalls and brown gloves.

I don't like overalls. I don't like that he is wearing overalls at all.

So this leads to five days after this attack...

Alfred Charles Whiteway was brought back in for questioning.

Yeah, good. He better have been. By Herbert Hannon.

Get your buck back in here. Get your buck back in here.

So this was based on, what's crazy is that this wasn't even, he wasn't even brought back in for questioning because of the Patricia Birch attack.

He was brought back in again now to talk about the original attack on the 14 year olds because they were finding more stuff out.

They were talking to more people. His name got brought up a few minutes, like somebody mentioned seeing him a few more times is what I meant.

Again, it's been a day. My brain is just like leeching out of my ears.

But yeah. Again, it was not based on the Patricia Birch attack or the murders at this point.

Although police at this time were starting to connect some things and starting to be like, huh, could he have been involved in one, the Patricia Birch attack and two, the murders?

No. Like, what's this guy's deal? But unfortunately, he was questioned.

They couldn't get anything to keep him on.

So he had to be released again, even though his clothing matched.

And he was a literal, at this point, he was like a professional hatchet thrower, too.

I'm sorry. Yeah. You just buried the fucking lead on that one.

You said, oh, and by the way, he was a professional hatchet thrower.

Now I'm going to get into this because we're going to talk about Alfred Whiteway here.

But at this point, it slipped out that, yes, he did like to throw knives and he was actually pretty good at it.

Wild. Now, once the news of the Patricia Birch attack came out, and she described her attacker like she did, suddenly police are like, wait a second, this is definitely the same guy.

This is definitely the same guy. We have a serial rapist happening here.

And it would not shock us if he was involved in the Barbara Songhurst and Christine Reed killings.

Of course not. So... They were like, um, this sounds like that guy that we just had in here.

So we should bring him back. So they brought Alfred back in for questioning on June 28th, 1953.

And after questioning, he was now finally officially charged with the rape of the 14-year-old girl and the attempted rape on Patricia Birch.

So finally, they are able to hold him for something.

He's charged for something. But again, they don't have him for the murders yet.

But they have them at least. They have them and they can hold them right now.

Now let's talk about Alfred Charles Whiteway.

Do we have to? Who is this fucker? I don't know.

I don't even want to know. Like, fuck this guy.

Well, we got to know. We got to know. So he was born June 21st, 1931 in London.

Well, I think that's like the day it actually I know it is the day cancer season starts.

Oh, okay. Cancer men. Uh-oh. Oh, cancer men out there.

Sorry. Yeah. Sorry about that shade. Generalization.

I'm sure some cancer men are absolutely wonderful, but you have experience.

Oh, yeah. My ex was a cancer. Yep. Yep. Yep.

That tracks. So, unfortunately for Alfred's family, they were very poor.

His father died when he was 14. His mother worked as a domestic servant, and he had eight siblings.

Holy shit. So... There was not a lot for anybody.

Lots of neglect, lots of stress. Lots of knives to throw about.

Lots of knives to throw about. He was always in trouble from a very young age.

He was always stealing things. Sometimes I'm sure when he was younger, it was out of necessity.

I'm sure he was stealing food and such. Hungry.

But that kind of turned into he was stealing all kinds of stuff, stealing purses, stealing things that just didn't belong to him.

And he was doing it at this point just for the fun of it.

He was sent to reform school and literally failed reform school.

Wow. So there's that. That's when you're a bad seed.

And like I said before, this is when he became obsessed with knives and he became obsessed with throwing knives.

It's like a thing. And he became really adept at throwing hatchets, knives and machetes and being able to hit a target like very far away.

Isn't it weird that like axe throwing is like the new craze?

Yeah. Well, it's not new anymore, but. My fear with axe throwing.

Is your head, right? Is always not. Well, it's just that somebody's not going to let go in time and it's going to whip back and hit them.

Like a boomerang? Not even like a boomerang that you're literally just going to like whip it the wrong way because your arm isn't going to know to let go of it.

See, my biggest fear. I know that's illogical, but.

It's not that illogical. My biggest fear is actually a little bit more logical.

But you have to like swing your, when you do it, you like hold the axe behind your head.

So like, what if it's just the wrong way?

Like I'm a clumsy bitch and I'm a forgetful bitch.

You think you would put it upside down? What if, like, it spins in your hand and you don't even realize it and then you just ka-chunga the back of your head?

Okay, I see what you're saying. I was thinking you thought you would hold it upside down and just, like, clonk your head.

No, no, no. But you're saying, like, the sharp part is supposed to be facing up.

But if it spins in your hand, then you're chopping the back of your neck.

I get that. That's a pretty logical fear.

Yeah, thank you. I think so. I think that's logical.

Wild. See, mine is more like how you have to put it over your head and then you whip it.

What if you don't let go and you hatch it yourself in the stomach?

I just don't want to hatchet myself anywhere.

It feels scary, but it's also something I would love to be good at.

Just to say I'm good at it. Axe throwing?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not good at it. It's a real power move to, like, throw an axe and hit the target.

My friend, like, I think it was, like, right when we got out of high school or, like, a little bit after we... No, no, no.

It was actually way after that. It doesn't matter.

But anyway, my friend, in her backyard, her dad set up, like, an axe throwing...

A facility, if you will. Yeah. And we just like spent a whole night throwing axes.

So you did throw axes. Yeah, I've done it before.

Oh, okay. That's cool. I've never done it. it's, it's an activity.

It's an activity. It's pretty fun, but it is worrisome in the middle of it, you know?

Yeah. You're just worried. A bunch of people around you holding axes.

I just, I don't trust people. We've also just like progressed so much as a society.

I mean, we haven't, but you know what I mean?

Have we though? But like games have progressed so much.

Like we could sit down and play a board game.

That's true. We could toss a horseshoe. A horseshoe.

A horseshoe. It reminds me of the Highland Games in Scotland, which those are fucking cool.

Didn't our cousins used to be in those? I don't know.

Did I make that up entirely? I think you completely made that up.

You guys, listen. Were you in the Highland Games?

I think you totally made that up. Did I make that up?

That might have been a tale I was told as a young in there.

Wow. Because she did tell some tales. Hey, it would be cool if we have cousins that were in the Highland Games.

No, I actually remember being told that story.

Yeah, that's a lie. I don't think we have.

Maybe we had like descendants or ancestors that were part of like the original Highland Games.

Are they still like a thing? Yeah, like they have the Highland Games now.

There's like big Scottish men who just like throw giant tree trunks.

I'm dying right now. I was 100% told that our cousins were in it.

Specific ones too. Here's the thing. Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe I just didn't know that. I'm going to text them after this.

I don't think so. I don't think so. You know they're going to get around to this and that group chat's going to be popping.

I really don't think that's the case. Shout out to our cousins.

Cousins, were you in the Highland Games for some weird reason?

I feel like you wouldn't have missed that.

You definitely weren't. That's awesome, though.

That's wild. I need to go through all the things I was told and fact check them because there's been so many that just simply weren't true.

These are fun. One of them was like, your dad doesn't love you.

That wasn't even true. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

Oh, man. Totally joking. That was just a ha-ha.

It's a funny laugh ha-ha. Sometimes you just make jokes, you know?

Sometimes you're a sad, sad child so you can be a funny, funny gal as an adult.

Sometimes comedy. sometimes how did we get here i don't really know oh because we were talking about hatchet throwing you know i said it reminds me of the highland games and you were like like our cousins and i was like where are we so sorry we took that quick detour no matter what this this piece of shit was really good at throwing hatchets okay that sucks and it's not a great like little tick for hatchet throwing no i suppose it's not you don't want to claim him nobody wants to claim him i don't know her i do not know her Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach?

Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families.

With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids' spending with real-time notifications.

Kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely.

And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place.

Try Greenlight risk-free today at greenlight.com slash wondery.

The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.

But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.

The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.

His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.

Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.

I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.

As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.

Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption and magic.

Binge all episodes of The Mystic and the Mare exclusively and ad-free right now on Wondery+.

Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or the Wondery app.

At 15 years old, Alfred went to Cotswold Approved School Borstal, which, if you remember, Karl Panzram was definitely a Borstal kid.

There was a couple of others that we have covered that are Borstal kids.

Seems like it doesn't turn out too well.

I don't, I have never really read one that turned out well, but I don't think I'm really looking for Borstal stories that turned out well.

You should start doing that. Or maybe they don't write about ones that turn out well.

Maybe they don't write about it. It's basically for, like, emotional difficulties, behavioral difficulties, you know.

He went here after he was caught stealing a bike.

So, see, he's graduating to not just stealing food for necessity, but now he's just stealing for the hell of it.

The sad thing is, is, like, back then, the reform schools were not even trying to reform you.

Oh, no. God only. And we know what happened to Carl, actually, while he was there.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. We can presume that something similar probably happened to this dude.

Yeah, definitely not great. He was described while he was there, and he's 15, remember?

He was described as angry and miserable.

He was difficult. He was cruel to animals.

He, like, was very weird and, like, forceful upon, like, women.

Like, where this was, like, a boy's, you know, borstal.

But the women teachers he was, like, very weird with and very forward with.

They were very uncomfortable with him. So already something's brewing here.

Yeah, something's off. He's being aggressive and forcing himself at women already.

We don't like that. He's just an asshole.

He actually went to prison for a year when he was 17 for theft.

Man. And when he got out, he finally was like, you know what?

I got to get a real job. I got to stop stealing shit.

I got to make some money. So he got a job in construction.

Okay. And coworkers said he was definitely an asshole.

Awesome. But he was good at the job. But they said his temper was fucking nuts.

Like he had just... like a hairline temper that just shot off.

It always sucks when those people are really good at the job because you're like, well, it can't go to you, but you suck.

Exactly. It's like, why are you good at this?

Shut up and get your job done. Yeah. And he also, everybody was kind of uncomfortable with the growing obsession he had with knives.

That will make people uncomfortable. Ten out of ten times.

Yeah, and it's because he was also really strong.

Like, weirdly strong. So he's obsessed with knives, and he's, like, superhuman strong.

He's, like, split strong. He could, like, climb scaffolding like a monkey climbs.

Like, he was, like... like spider up a wall kind of thing.

And his arms, they said, were like tree trunks.

Like he was just like a big, strong guy.

And they were like, he made us uncomfortable.

He also had like a real obsession with sex, like in a real aggressive way.

Like he always talked about it. He was obsessed with it.

He was very like, you know, like crass about it.

Crude. They just didn't like it. He made everyone uncomfortable.

He was also very nearsighted. You're like, he was so strong.

People were freaked out about it. Liked knives a lot.

People were freaked out about it. And then on top of all that, this motherfucker was nearsighted.

I'm like, me too. Same. But no, the fact that he's nearsighted is like a little important later.

And it actually draws back to the Murder Mile UK podcast and what Mr. Buchanan done there before. posits about what might have happened the night of the murders nearsightedness may have had something to do with it oh it's very interesting because he was nearsighted like very nearsighted like could not see this motherfucker so fucking was near you know what it is he didn't do anything just like a little bit he fucking did it he was huge and strong he was obsessed with knives he was a fucking perfectionist Professional hatchet thrower.

He was obsessed with sex. And he couldn't fucking see.

Yeah. So hard. He could. Just only close up.

Only close up. But he could not see over there.

Like he could not see over there. Not a farsighted motherfucker.

And then he was such an asshole and he had such an ego that he refused to wear glasses because he thought they were for weak men.

God. Go fuck yourself. Glasses are for sexy men, okay?

I was just going to say, we love a man in glasses.

We are a man in glasses podcast, okay? Only.

Only. In fact, I actually convinced Drew recently not to get LASIK.

When I thought he was, Drew was going to lose his glasses.

We were sad. I'm upset about it. I love his glasses.

I was trying really hard not to be sad about it.

And then I was like, okay. Bubba, you can't do it.

Please don't do it. And he was like, I think I'm just going to get new glasses.

Hell yeah. And then he got new glasses. Just a quick sidetrack.

Motherfucker got new glasses and oh my God.

That's how I feel. You know, glasses. John wears glasses.

We love glasses. He wears great glasses.

Just one more quick side note. Drew showed us the glasses that he got.

Yes? Yeah. He got glasses that are even better than those, and he was too, like, nervous to show us.

Drew's adorable. He's so cute. I love Drew.

I love him. I love Drew, and I love glasses.

And, you know, he's the complete opposite of this guy.

Of this guy. There's your segue back. Because this guy refused to wear glasses.

Like, what a fucking weenie. Okay. Okay.

He's an L7 weenie. We don't want you in the glasses club anyway.

Yeah, you don't belong here. So stay out of here.

Now, around this time when he was coming into, you know, like young adulthood, he was getting into his 20s.

God, he's not even in his 20s yet. That's the thing.

Like at this point, he was probably like 19, I would say, like had just gotten out of prison, you know, that whole thing.

I'm totally, that was a joke. And it's because... That was a joke.

People are like looking at my prison record.

She does not have a prison record, I promise.

I do not. But this is when it's getting like, it's coming out of like him being a teen and being obsessed with sex and being weird around girls to becoming an adult who's obsessed with sex and knives and...

And at this point, does it seem like he's even had any sex?

Well, now, and he has, and now he feels like he is owed it.

Oh, one of those. Like he's one of those that feels like one of those.

One of those. You know what those are. He feels like he's owed it.

If you're a woman and he wants it, he's owed it and he's going to take it.

So this becomes his thing. Like he's going to take it if you don't want to give it.

Ew, what the fuck is wrong with everyone?

Now, around this time, he became fixated on a girl named Nellie. nelly was 16 years old and he was 20 wrong and he saw her with her friend at a park i think it was literally like a playground like uh i mean she was 16 but like you know kids like hang out at a playground yeah we used to do that just like sitting on the swings or something yeah he literally stalked her around the perimeter of this playground for hours and just michael myers what the fuck yeah Like he wishes.

Yeah, he couldn't even. He just walked around staring at her and then followed the two of them down the towpath, by the way, followed them.

Then he followed her to her home all the way to her door and then asked her out after he stalked her to her door and cornered her.

What? Unfortunately, Nellie was apparently into it.

And she said, yes, they started dating. And within four months, they wanted to get married.

So she was love-bombed. Yeah, she was 16.

Yeah, she was groomed. Exactly. And her mother fucking hated him.

Of course she did. Had his number from the second she met him.

We are a Mama Stan podcast. Hell yeah. They know.

We love a good mama. We love a good mama.

We also love Mama Tot. Oh, we love Mama Tot.

So much. Oh, I'm so glad you brought Mama Tot up.

On TikTok, go find Mama Talk. If you haven't found Mama Talk by now, just be prepared for the level of comfort that your soul is about to be doused in.

I love Mama Talk. M-A-M-A-T-O-T. And she'll just sit down with her lunch and she'll just talk to you.

And it's so soothing. Yeah, she'll eat lunch with you because if you don't have anybody to eat lunch with...

She's just, like, she just wants to put so much love into the world, and it better love her back.

And you know what we do? I love her so much.

Yelena showed me her, and I love her so much.

It's true, and I saw, like, people were being dicks to her at one point, and I was like, if you can be a dick to Mama Tot, then you need to go. figure stuff out.

You got to go elsewhere. Because she's literally like the most wholesome, pure human.

Yeah. But yeah, go find Mama Tot and just give, tell her that she's great.

Yeah, she's way better than this guy. This guy, great segue.

So the mom, not Mama Tot, but this mom. Yes.

This mom was like, he's rude. He's a loser.

He's a thief. He's too old. He's not going to provide anything for you.

Like he's irresponsible. Like he shouldn't be interested in a girl your age?

Yeah, like, what the fuck is wrong with this guy?

All of these were correct. Mama was right.

Check, check, check, check, check. So what they did was he got her pregnant on purpose so that it would force the mom to allow them to get married.

Which it's always good to bring a human life into the world just to like spite someone.

That's a great reason to do that. It's also just like, why are you using a 16-year-old right now?

That's the thing. And now she's going to become a whole ass mom and her childhood is just gone because of your dumb ass.

Because you're convincing her that this is what's the right thing to do.

Oh my God. The level of like just mental torture this man is.

Yeah, he's terrible. Ugh, I don't like him.

So they had a baby girl on May 20th, 1952.

And this is the year before the murders, by the way.

Jesus Christ. He had his baby girl. He wasn't able to be there when she was born, though, because he was in prison for six months for burglary.

Both of these poor little girls. Also, Nellie's mother still would not allow him to come in the house.

Good. So Nellie was living with her mom.

And the baby. But the mom literally refused to allow him in the house.

She was like, no, you're terrible. Yeah.

Stay away from her. She's like, you just went to prison for burglary, dude.

You weren't even here for her birth. Right.

Like, get the fuck out of here. So she was able to see, like Nellie was able to see him, but only outside on the steps and in like the alleyway next to the house.

Good. Now, so it just makes it even worse that when he committed these crimes, he had a baby girl, a barely like a one-year-old baby girl and was married.

And at that point, Nellie was pregnant again.

Oh. Oh, no. They'd only been able to see each other outside in alleyways and shit, and somehow it happened.

Now, until the bitter end, Nellie did defend her husband.

She simply could not believe that he had done any of this.

But remember, they never lived together.

Right. They got married after, like, four months they wanted to get married, which, of course, I'm not saying if you get married after four months, you don't know each other.

No. It's just they've never lived together.

Right. Well, that's a whole different getting to know someone.

And you're 16. Like, this is probably your first very serious relationship.

Exactly. They saw each other for a few hours outside the house.

They did not live with each other. So it's like she knew him, but did she know him?

Yeah, because you really start to know somebody when you share living quarters.

It's a very important part. In my opinion, I should say, it's a very important part of... the whole, like, relationship process.

I think so, too. I think you really get to know someone when you live with them, and I feel like it's, like, that's when you know.

I always say, like, when we have kids, I'm going to be like, you should live with your whoever before you decide to get married, because I think everybody should.

You just learn a lot. Yeah. And it's, like, so I'm not saying she's not right or, like, she's wrong or right in her belief that, like, she can't imagine that the father of her child and her husband would kill two teenage girls.

Yeah. But... He did rape a 14-year-old.

He admitted to that. And, like, multiple other people.

And it's like, so if he's capable of that, he's capable of a lot, unfortunately.

And it's like, but she's 16. Yeah. And she's been fully, fully groomed.

Yeah, it's like she doesn't know. And it's like, what a fucking position for her to be in.

And she's gone through, like, a fucking whirlwind of a life.

What a whirlwind. Like, she's pregnant twice within a couple years.

Yeah, married, like, not even 18 at this point.

Like, that's a lot. So then July 15th, Alfred Whiteway, because remember he was being held on the rape charges, he pled guilty at Old Bailey to those rape charges.

Wait, Old Bailey is in my story. And Old Bailey has been in a few things, like Bermondsey Horror, I think.

Yeah. It's been in a few different, that's cool.

That is cool. Look at Old Bailey. When you said it, I was like, oh my God, I just read that.

Yeah, look at that. Now, again, this is the part where I want to bring back the nearsightedness thing.

Because if you listen to Murder Mile UK, which, again, I'm going to link, he thinks this is his, like, idea of what happened.

Yeah, and I think it's really smart. Is that he thinks maybe what happened that night, because it's very strange that he went from...

He's like basically a serial rapist, but he's raping and attacking women and young girls that are alone.

And he's leaving them alive. And then he just leaves.

Right. Like he hurts them, but he hasn't killed anybody before these.

And then all of a sudden he does a double murder and a double rape.

Like that's a big thing. So what he suggests on Murder Mile UK is that when he saw either Barbara or Christine coming down the towpath, he saw that one light.

Because the other light was broken. So he saw one light.

He thought it was one girl. And remember, one of them was ahead of the other one.

So he attacked her, not realizing that there was another one.

And then when she came to help her friend, he just panicked and had to go for everything.

Like, it just went way out of hand. Because he did say that he did, like, he maintained a million times when he finally talks about this that he didn't mean to.

And so what Murder Mile UK says is maybe that's the truth.

Maybe he was a serial rapist and this wasn't the intention.

Yeah. Maybe not. Like it's a very like who the fuck knows.

But it's like this is an idea of like maybe that's how at least that's how it escalated to what it did.

Who knows if he liked it or intended that.

But yeah, that could be the reason. I thought it was really smart idea for like possibly what that could be.

Yeah, that's a very good hypothesis. Yes, yes, thank you.

A theory, if you will. Theory. That's the word I was looking for.

Also on July 15th, about a month and a half after the absolutely brutal murders of Christine Reed and Barbara Songhurst, police constable Arthur Koch walked into the Kingston police station for his shift.

And he put a yellow and black hatchet down on the table.

This is a police constable. And they're like, what the fuck?

And he said, um, so I found this in my patrol car.

And they were like, what do you mean you found this in your patrol car?

And he said, well, the day after we transported Whiteway to be charged, that was over two weeks ago, by the way.

Oh, my God. I found this under the seat of my patrol car two weeks ago.

How did he sneak a fucking hatchet? Oh, yeah.

So he put it in. So this police constable, he put this.

He found it in his car. two weeks ago and he placed it in his police locker at the station and didn't tell anybody about it.

For why? Not sure. Then he went out sick until July 8th, saw it in his locker when he came back from being sick and was like, oh shit.

I have wood to chop at my house. I thought you were going to say, I should tell someone I have this.

Oh, you thought? I did. Look at you. That's what everybody should have thought right now.

What? So he took it home and he chopped fucking wood with it.

This man found a hatchet in his police car, said, whoa, that's weird.

That's not mine. Put it in his police locker, went out sick, came back, found it again and was like, oh, I should bring this home and chop wood with it.

I'm done. And then on July 15th, when he walked into that fucking Kingston police station for a shift, apparently he had grown one fucking brain cell and was like, ooh, this might be the murder weapon.

You know that? His wife realized that. His wife came out while he was fucking chopping wood and was like, whose hatchet is that?

And he was like, I found it in my police car.

And she was like... That's evidence, moron.

Like, turn that in. Oh, my God. I could not believe this.

Like, how the fuck did this happen? How did even leave the axe in the car?

How did this happen? The police were fucking distracted when they were... driving him to the station.

She just motioned drive. I literally was like, drive, drive.

And they had not thoroughly searched him when they picked him up.

Clearly, if you miss a fucking hatchet. He was able to hide that murder weapon under the back seat.

They didn't see him take a hatchet out of his pants and slide it under the seat.

That's comedy. He had the axe in his overalls and they didn't search him before picking him up.

So they, on suspicion of aggravated rape, by the way, they did not search this man to put him in the car.

Also, they're lucky that he didn't hatchet them.

That's the thing. This man was being picked up because he had raped someone after banging them in the head with a hatchet.

With that hatchet. And you don't search him to make sure that, I don't know, he doesn't have a hatchet on him?

Like, what is wrong? What the fuck? What is wrong with everybody?

And they were so distracted driving that he was able to pull it out of his pants and slide it under the seat and they weren't like, what are you doing back there?

Right. Also, was he not handcuffed? What the fuck happened?

So many questions. So many questions. I have many things to ask.

That is absolutely bonkers. So once PC Kosh decided that it was time to bring the murder weapon back into the station.

Did he get, like, fired? Who the fuck knows?

So they send it for testing. But Kosh had chopped wood with it.

It was dulled. The fingerprints were gone or completely compromised.

No, he should have been literally off the ground.

Exactly. Any blood that was on it is compromised now.

Right. I just don't understand how they, like, what?

Yeah. It was rendered almost useless. And I say almost because although it was now officially inadmissible as evidence.

No. Can't use it. Thanks, PC Kosh. And that could have been, like, the smoking hatchet.

Oh, yeah, the smoking hatchet. That's what it would have been.

Wow. It was the yellow and black hatchet that was described.

It was right there. They should have, like, retrained that man after that.

Yeah. Like, what the actual fuck? Well, Superintendent Detective Hannon was ready to use it to secure his confession that he knew he was very close to with Alfred.

So he was like, although I can't use this in trial...

I'll use it here. I can use it for a couple of other things.

They also sent Whiteway's clothing for testing to see if there was any blood on them.

So now Hannon is still grilling Whiteway at Brixton Prison, where he's awaiting charges for the rapes.

Now, he denied, denied, denied. And he kept saying he was at his wife's mother's house with her and his daughter the evening of the murders.

And they said, you're not even allowed there.

I was just going to say, but remember, his wife's mother won't let him in the house.

Interesting alibi you just threw out there.

Survey says. Yeah, that's probably no. Hey weirdos, we need to tell you about something that has completely blown our minds collectively.

There's a new show called Lawless Planet that's uncovering true crime stories so massive, they're affecting the entire planet.

Post-Zack Goldbaum is investigating real cases where environmental destruction meets murder, conspiracy, and cover-ups.

We're talking about activists who disappear in the Amazon rainforest, whistleblowers who risk everything to expose deadly corporate secrets, and communities being silently poisoned while powerful people profit.

What makes these stories truly terrifying?

They're happening right now. This isn't history.

It's a massive criminal conspiracy unfolding in real time with consequences that affect us all.

Each episode feels like opening a case file into the darkest corners of corporate and government power.

Trust us. Once you start listening, you will not be able to stop thinking about these stories.

Follow Lawless Planet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to new episodes of Lawless Planet early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery+.

So he said during an interview, quote, I'm going to keep my mouth shut.

I know what you coppers are. I had nothing to do with the girls.

You're wasting your time. The bloke who did that job was mad.

I would go my distance to get a bit from a girl who hadn't had it before, but not to murder her.

Oh my God. Oh, okay. oh okay alfred so he was like i will rape people i will rape a virgin murder that's basically what he i will rape a virgin but i'm not murdering them like what the fuck also how do you know who's a virgin and who's not like you're upon looking at them yeah you're the fucking worst and also you're nearsighted you can't tell anything and you won't wear glasses to correct it that So the most wild thing.

You're fucking nearsighted. And also, get this, you're nearsighted.

You also can't see far away. So there's that.

Yeah, fuck off. He also admitted during this, which is wild, that he knew Barbara Songhurst.

What? She lived a few doors down from his mother.

And he was at least familiar with her, he claimed.

He was like, well, I think I know like who she is.

Like I've seen her. Oh, shit. Well, actually, he was quite familiar with the Songhorst family.

Whiteway had dated a girl named June, who was now married to Barbara's brother, Danny.

What? And he had been livid about her leaving him.

So he was actually friendly with Danny at this point, Danny Songhurst, so much so that Danny came to his defense when he was first accused because he didn't think that he was capable of doing something like that.

Yeah. And the Songhurst family like knew of him, like they knew who he was.

And they all thought he was just this quiet, normal boy.

Like they couldn't imagine that someone was like this.

No, and he was friends with their son. Exactly.

And they're just nice people. Yeah. Who, like, why would they ever think that somebody who's at least, like, friendly acquaintances with his son and with, like, this family would ever do something like this?

So that was interesting. And he also revealed at this point to the police how much he loved knives and hatchets.

And he kept saying, like, I really have come, like, very... He didn't say it like this, but he said, like, very proficient in throwing them and getting a target from far away.

Which, again, very... He's nearsighted.

So that's really crazy. I can't with you.

That's actually like mildly impressive if he wasn't such a dick.

Is he nearsighted? He's nearsighted. So this is when he said, actually, you have my hatchet.

No. And they were like, we have your hatchet.

And he was like, yeah. And he said, the Kingston police have got it.

When I was in the police car, I tucked it under the seat.

And then he said, when they picked me up, I had it in my shirt.

He said, you fucking idiot. In the car, I was sitting in the back and I pushed it under the seat with my foot.

At Kingston Police Station, I was alone for a while and I wedged it under with my hand.

Wow. So not only did they give him enough time to take it out of his shirt. put it down on the floor, and kick it under the floor.

He also left him alone for a bit. Left him alone so he could wedge it further under with his hands.

Guys. It's time for an external investigation.

Yeah, there's a lot going on here. So at least this is a boom moment because it was his hatchet.

He admitted to it. But they still needed to get a confession.

He's not confessing to anything. No, he's just like, hey, you have my hatchet.

He's just being a dick. So they got him to admit through casual conversation that he kept hatchets and knives on him, like in his saddlebag that he had on him.

Because he said, I just like throwing them and I like to just have them.

If I see a tree, I can throw them at things.

Exactly. If I see a tree, I just throw a knife at it.

If I see a tree, I just throw hatchets at it.

You would think that you wouldn't have so much pent-up aggression then.

Every time you see a tree, you just throw a knife at it.

Like, the fuck? Yeah, you would think that would work.

Also, trees are alive. Just be nice, man.

Let's not hatchet them. Well, and then he said he remembers the last time he used his hatchet that the police now had.

And he said he was using it at Old Ham Lock.

And he was throwing it at trees. And they said, well, that's where the girls were last seen on the day they were killed, is old Tam Locke.

Fancy that. And he was like, oh, look at that.

And he was a dick. He was basically like, oh.

He was like, that doesn't do anything, so you can say whatever you want.

That's fine. Oh, man. They then told him, well, forensic tests showed that there are large quantities of blood on your shoes.

What's that about? The crepe-soled shoes that everybody said you were wearing when you raped people.

That was the truth. There was blood, but there was a small amount of blood on his shoe.

But they were like, there's a large quantity of blood.

He called their bluff and was like, I don't fucking believe you.

And they were like, okay, well, that didn't work.

Why does he literally sound like your ex, too?

Yeah, it's a little scary when I was reading this.

Not like the murder and the rape or anything like that.

No, not that I know of, but that's a different day.

But attitude-wise, I'm like, wow, that's familiar.

You know what it is? It's cancer, and then he's a Gemini cusp.

This guy. This guy's a cusp. He's a cusper.

Now, then they told him, so they're like, they're going down the line of things.

And then they told him, and this was true, they said the curve of the axe that is yours, they said that matches the head wounds for both the victims perfectly.

The pathologist confirmed it, that that is the murder weapon.

It is a perfect match. And he was like, okay.

Like, I'm still not going to say anything.

And then Hannan went further. He had the knife brought out that was used to stab them.

And it was placed on the table. They had found that knife in the river when they had dredged the river at Old Ham Lock, where the girls were last seen.

So he puts it on the table and he's like, this yours?

Like, did you throw that in the water? You thought you wouldn't see that again, huh?

And Alfred looked visibly shocked at that one.

Like, oh, fuck. And said, oh, you got it out of the water, did you?

And they were like, okay. But then he just stopped talking and shrugged.

Fucking hate this guy. So then Hannon brought it up a notch.

I love Hannon. And he had the hatchet brought out and placed on the table in front of him.

Again, it was useless legally, but he was trying to elicit some kind of emotion to get that confession.

So Hannon said when that hatchet got put down in front of him, he said that all the color drained out of his face.

And he asked him, were you kidding about the blood on my shoe?

And obviously Hannah said, no. And he said, you know, bloody well, it's me, don't you?

That was the next thing he said. And he said, it's all up, you know, well, I done it.

What a mess. He said, I'm mental. My head must be wrong.

And that's a direct quote. I think you're just looking for an insanity defense, my dude.

I think you're just an asshole, my guy. They're like, weird, you seem to be pretty highly functioning before that.

Yeah, and then all of a sudden you're very angry and like, oh, no, I must not.

So he said, again, he didn't mean to kill them, but he said, I can't control myself around women.

He said, when I see a woman, I just have to have her.

Jesus Christ. And they were like, yeah, we know you're a rapist, so we got that.

You're disgusting. Now, about the Barbara Songhurst and Christina Reid murders, he said, quote, I only saw one girl.

She came around a tree where I stood, and this goes right with the murder mile UK theory, and I bashed her and she went down like a log.

The other screamed out down by the lock.

Never saw her till then. I nipped over and shut her up.

Two of them. And then I tumbled the other one, and then I tumbled the other one knew me.

I don't know what that means. And if, it might have been like translated wrong.

Mm-hmm. But if it had not been for that, it would not have happened.

And then he said, so he's saying, I didn't mean to kill them.

I just wanted to rape one girl. It all went to hell.

And then he basically blames her friend for screaming when her friend was being attacked.

Said it never would have happened if that didn't happen.

And then he said, put that chopper away.

It haunts me. What more do they want to know?

Absolutely wild. And then he signed the confession.

Also, I love that he's like, never would have happened if it weren't for that girl.

No, never would have happened if you weren't a disgusting rapist and could keep it in your fucking pants, guy.

That's when it wouldn't have happened. If you weren't sitting in a fucking bush at 11 p.m. waiting to slam a hatchet into some poor girl's face as she rode by on a bike.

Yeah, that's when it wouldn't have happened.

You piece of shit. So he signed the confession, but then once he signed it, he said, I have one question.

And they were like, what? And he said, have you found her bike?

Because one of Barbara's bike was missing.

And they said, no, we haven't. And he said, then I shall say it's all lies.

You can tear that up. I didn't give it. what the fuck?

And they were like, we're not going to do that.

You can get fucked. You just did a confession, you fucker.

And they just left. They were like, fuck you.

Now, August 20th was his, he went in and got charged for the murder of Barbara Songhurst.

Under British law, he could only be charged for one crime at a time.

So Barbara was the one he was charged with.

So the trial began at Old Bailey. It was referred to as the duel at Old Bailey because it was like a very heated series of exchanges.

The defense tried to accuse Hannon of tricking Whiteway into signing a confession.

The confession was very, like, tainted because he took it back.

They were saying—now, there was no recording of it, obviously—

There was no recordings of any confessions because that didn't happen until 1991.

So standard practice was the confession was written down in a notebook and other officers present were there to witness it.

And then the confessor signs to acknowledge that that is truth.

And that's that. Now, apparently the big argument was... whether it was okay that he had put that axe and that knife down on the table to elicit the emotion.

Why not? And then he was asking whether the axe was placed on the table.

Like, the crux of the issue became, was the axe on the table still when he began to confess, or was it put away?

Why the fuck would you come down to that small of a potato?

That's why things got crazy. They had his wife Nellie on the stand pregnant.

Yeah, so he looked sympathetic. No, it was a six-day trial, and he was found guilty after the jury deliberated for 47 minutes.

Wow. He was sentenced to hang at Wadsworth Prison.

Bye. He appealed, but it failed. Good. And according to Murder Mile UK, he wrote to Detective Hannon six weeks before his execution and basically accused him of fabricating the confession, like wrote him a letter and was like, you know what you did.

Hmm. Which is like, whoa. Do you believe any part of that?

I don't know. I think he's a bullshitter, but who knows?

I don't know. He may have just been scared to die.

Exactly. And he told him he knew that he knew his word was going to be taken more than his was like, he was like, you know, your word means more than mine does.

And I don't know why you did this, but like, it worked.

I'm going to die. Either way, we know you killed them.

Well, then he wrote a letter to his mother saying that he didn't do it.

He did not kill these girls. And he said that he did figure, though, that he should probably put to death anyways because he had raped that 14-year-old girl.

So he said I should be put to death anyway.

Agreed. Which it's like, whoa. So December 22nd, 1953, he was hanged at Wadsworth Prison.

The axe that was used, the hatchet, it is still on display at the Black Museum at Scotland Yard.

People love to display an axe. I know. I've talked about two axes on display.

That's weird. Yeah. I did not mean to do that.

When you did the Villisca. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of axes on display.

On display, on display. But also, just to end this, one of our listeners, Holly, wrote in about this case, and it turns out that her grandmother is Barbara Songhurst's sister.

What? So it's her great aunt. Oh, shit. And she said she's a badass.

And that she, you know, like, she told me the whole story of the murder miles, excuse me, the towpath murders.

And she was like, she was like, I hope I did this, like, proud, which you did a great job telling it to us.

And like... I was like, whoa, that's wild.

So our listener, Holly, her grandmother was Barbara's sister.

Yeah. Or is Barbara's sister. So it's her great aunt.

Wow. Isn't that crazy? That is. And I'm sorry about your great aunt.

Yeah. That's terrible. Thanks for writing us in that, Holly.

I appreciate it. I know. And that is the story of the Topaz murders.

Wow. That was devastating. Yeah, it really was.

I feel really bad for the families here.

Yeah, seriously. They were so young. Every crime is so senseless, but...

This guy. Yeah, this guy's just such a dick.

What an asshole. I hope they put glasses on him after.

Right, I hope they made him wear glasses.

Because no matter what you think of the confession and all that, he still raped a 14-year-old girl.

He still attempted to rape a 56-year-old woman.

Yeah. On the towpath, too. So it's like, hello.

And it does make sense to me that he was attempting to do the same fucking thing to one girl and then shit got out of hand and he went berserk because he has a terrible temper.

Exactly. And he was probably immediately set off by how this wasn't what he planned.

His plan was foiled. And that he wasn't going to be able to rape someone the way he wanted to rape someone that night.

So his anger took over. I don't know, because recordings are so hard back then.

But, like... It also just doesn't sound like... Like, why would it matter if the thing was put away or not?

Well, and it's... They like to say that, like, this particular police officer, like Detective Hannon, that he was, like, the cop who would do anything to get a conviction kind of thing.

And they kind of, like, point to him, like, dredging part of the Thames to find this evidence.

But he's trying to find, like... And at that point, he was trying to find the body of a... A body?

Girl. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, maybe that I'm okay with.

Go do anything. Why can't he do that? So I think they were trying during the trial, they're trying to make it very much like he goes way too far.

He goes too far and he went too far with this confession and he just pushed it until he got one.

I feel like in this case, he like didn't.

Yeah, this one doesn't, from what I have read and researched and what I think is like knowledge that you have if you read this case, to me it doesn't seem like he did anything wrong.

No. And then did they ever find her bike?

I don't think they ever found her bike. And he never would say?

If they did, or at least I didn't see anything.

If they did, then I'm sure it was like, you know.

Given back to the fam. Or I imagine it might have been in his possession, maybe.

Who knows? But that's not recorded, so. Oh.

Yeah. I wish we knew. I know. Wow. Well, that was a very sad, sad story, but you told it very well.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, it was a bummer one.

Yeah. But one that needed to be told. Of course.

And again, go listen to that podcast. It's really cool.

There's a lot of cool cases on there. Sweet.

And if you're in the UK, he does tours. Oh, go on a tour.

I don't know exactly what tours, but he's very knowledgeable.

So I imagine they're very interesting tours.

I imagine. I imagine. Well, we hope that you do all of that.

Yeah. And we also hope that you keep it weird.

But not somewhere that you're on the towpath doing weird things.

Yeah. Don't be doing weird things on the towpath.

Don't do that. Bye. Bye. So, If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

[The Towpath Murders: A 1950s British Tragedy]-[Episode 377: The Towpath Murders]

📋 Summary

The Shadow of the Coronation: The Towpath Murders

A Pattern of Violence

The Tragedy at Teddington Lock

The Apprehension of Alfred Whiteway

Conclusion

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript