Episode 318: The Horrific Murder of Katy Hawelka Part 2 | Morbid

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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid.

It sure is. We're here. We're here and we're creepy and we're weird and so are you.

And we are back for part two of the absolutely horrific and brutal murder of Katie Hawelka.

Um, we are not going to get into any business today, really, because this is going to be a long one guys.

All right. I almost turned it into three episodes, but I didn't want to do that to you.

I know people, which are amazing. Are like, oh my God, give us all the extra parts.

But I'm like, you know what? I got to get it into part two.

Yeah. I also feel like part two will just be very, very long.

So essentially it will be three parts. It's essentially going to be three parts just in one.

Yeah. So you won't have to wait for part three.

Like two parts in part two. You know, parts. math yeah algebra uh the only thing i do want to say is that the author of the book that um I've already read twice now for this case.

I literally read it twice. Oh my gosh. Because it's that good.

Wow. His name's William LaRue. Like we mentioned in part one, I gave like a couple of his... stories that he had in there, but I gave them like very generally because I was like, you have to go read how he writes.

Right. And he has so much detail about the family.

He he's talked to so many people. It's just like so worth the read.

Yay. Because there's just so much more there.

Like, after you listen to this, I know you're going to be like, holy shit, I need more on this case just because this case is wild.

And it didn't get nearly enough attention.

That's how I feel. I want to read the book when we're done with this.

So I feel like I'm telling you, go read that book because you are going to get a load more.

Like you're going to come out of there being like, what the actual fuck?

Oh, I'm definitely I'm definitely getting this book.

Yeah. And so what, what's really cool is that William LaRue has a website and I'll link it in our show notes.

And he wrote like the nicest post saying about our episode, the first part of our episode that we did on Katie Hualca.

And it was just like a really nice post.

You said like very kind words. I know. Thank you.

I'm telling you, I'm not... being hyperbolic here when I say it made my actual fucking week.

Like I was like, oh yeah. So and to know that, you know, like I guess her family and friends run a Facebook page as well, which we will link it. as well with just updates.

Anytime the parole comes up, which we're going to talk about in this episode, they update.

And they actually posted it too. So they were happy with the episode.

And that was like... Yeah, that's all we want to do.

That's always just... Like, it really made, it's like, oh, okay.

You know, it's like, I just. just really want to do your loved one proud.

So I'm so happy that that's happening here.

And I hope I continue. But I will link all of this stuff.

Definitely go grab his book. Go check out the website.

Go check out the Facebook. We'll link it all.

But we're going to get right into it today because there's a lot to talk about.

So here we are. So when we last left you at part one.

They had already arrested Brian McCarthy.

They had interviewed him. He had denied everything.

He was a big sack of lying bullshit. Exactly.

And he was now painting himself as a victim as well, saying that some man wearing a black jacket had come out of nowhere and had kicked him in the back.

The neck, the head, he couldn't decide which one.

Yeah, the invisible man. no marks on him whatsoever his x-rays showed no issue like he was fine right uh he's just a lying sack of shit And he was also saying he never saw a girl.

But was then asking about a girl. Exactly.

And he only saw a black jacket. That's it.

But then he couldn't even when they asked him, he was like, I don't even know if I saw the black jacket on someone.

Did you just see it floating in the void?

Where did you see it? Like, why did you bring it up?

Yeah, he was he was a liar. And he slipped a few times with, you know, where he would say, like, I didn't rape anybody.

I didn't assault anybody. But they knew he did.

Well, in the fact that he said that before that was even put on the table, like, he wasn't even supposed to have known that a girl was raped.

Exactly. He said in the interview, you know, this guy's telling me that I assaulted someone and now you're telling me that I'm being charged with rape he's like I never said that and Chief Mata was like yeah I had never brought up But now you are.

But now you are. And as we ended part one.

They chief Maytot stood up after that interview and he told Brian McCarthy, you are being charged with assaults and rape.

Bye. And that was the end of part one. So August 29th was the day of the actual crime and also the day they spent. hours trying to get Brian McCarthy to confess, and he just wouldn't.

And like I said, denied, denied, denied.

He was getting to a point where they were like, I feel like if we just get him a little bit over this, he's going to crack.

Right. It's there. He's already slipping little things out that he doesn't even realize he is.

We just got to get him over that hump. so wild like when you see this play out to you like just how people can tell that someone's about to crack and the different tactics that they'll use oh yeah because there's so many different ways you can come from every angle I just like slapped my microphone.

You came from every angle. Wow. Okay. Sorry.

I talk with my hands when I get, as I'm sure you guys have seen at like virtual live shows and stuff.

I slap microphones all the time. Oh, yeah.

When I get really into a case, my hands are going to be a flying.

I know. That's why it's nice at the virtual live shows when we have the clip on mics.

Yeah. I mean, it is hard, though, because then I am known to like grab my like clutch my pearls.

So you clutch that microphone. Yeah. Yeah, it happens.

But you know, sorry about that. I'm really into this.

But luckily for the investigators, there happened to be a family friend of McCarthy's who is also a senior investigator with the new york state police bureau of investigations and they were a family friend of the mccarthy's oh okay Now, his name was Lawrence Maynor.

And it could be Maynor or Manor. I'm not exactly sure which way.

He knew McCarthy's parents, but he also knew Brian, and he knew Brian from a kid.

So he knew what a shitbag he was, and he knew that it may be up to him to convince him to confess.

Okay. So... He was like, if I go in there, maybe just having a friendly face.

Yeah. Maybe it'll make him, if he has feelings, maybe some of it will help.

Well, and that's how they do that whole good cop, bad cop thing.

Exactly. And it's like when you know someone since they were a kid, you're hoping that you're going to trust them.

Yeah. Now, in the afternoon, that same afternoon, after giving McCarthy some time between interrogations, they were like, let's let him chill out.

To shit his pants. Think about it a little more.

Think about all the mistakes he made in that interview.

So they brought Manor into the station, and he asked to speak with McCarthy alone.

Okay. So already, McCarthy's probably like, oh, fuck.

Also, too big last year, like, never alone.

No, you're never alone. Actually, he didn't ask to.

That's the thing. He didn't want to talk to him in the interrogation room.

He asked to talk to him in an office. oh okay so this was not going to be a an interrogation yet he was like i just want to chat with him for a second got it And they asked McCarthy, do you want to do that?

And he said, yes. Okay. So they, you know, they went in there 10 minutes.

They were in that. office, then Manor came out and said, Chief Maytot, McCarthy would like to change his original statement.

So I don't know what happened, but so in went Maytot and Lieutenant McKendree, who were the ones that were initially in the interrogation.

And they told him if he was willing to tell them what events occurred that previous evening when, you know, we want to hear it.

If you're ready to tell us, we're here."

And he said he was finally ready to tell the truth.

I feel like it's not gonna be the truth.

So he began with the same story he had originally originally told.

He said he was near the campus, he was peeing next to that fence near the opening in the gate where the shortcut is near the Walker Arena.

He said when he was there, he saw a guy and a girl sitting in the grass, talking and laughing.

This was Katie and her friend Todd Kilburn.

Right. Now, he said he literally sat on a rock a little bit away from them and just watched them.

That's fucking creepy. Fucking creep. He said then. he saw them get up and walk, and he followed them far enough behind that he would not be seen.

He said he could hear them say their goodbyes.

And he said they said friendly goodbyes, even saying he heard like a see you later or something like that.

I think when Todd Kilburn told the story he said this too like they said their goodbyes after he tried to say like I'll walk you and she He was like, no, no, no.

Yeah. And he said like she gave me a little kiss.

Yeah. And that was it. Like it was a very happy.

Like, just friendly exchange. We're friends.

I care about you by, like, feelings. It was like a very nice ending.

From what Brian first says, this is exactly how that went.

Now he heard the see you later, something casual like that.

And keep in mind, once they were parting ways, he followed her through the gate.

Again, far enough that she wouldn't notice his presence.

So he says, quote, as I was walking out. the girl was squatting in the corner peeing.

And when I walked by, I didn't say anything.

I didn't really see her at first because she was sitting in the dark.

Then I got right on top of her. She scared me and I said, oh, excuse me.

And she said, that's okay. He then tried to say she was bleeding from what he saw.

She was already bleeding. Yeah. He was seriously trying to say she was bleeding before he got to her.

Now remember... He just said, I heard them say goodbye, and then I followed her.

At what point did she start bleeding? So if you're following her, at what point Did this all occur?

And how did she scare you if you knew where she was?

That's the thing. So he's saying I followed her.

I followed her. He's not saying why he followed her, but he's saying he followed her.

He said it. And then he's saying, like you said, then all of a sudden she's just in the dark peeing already, first of all.

Right. And that you didn't see her and were scared by her.

But if you're following her, you saw her.

And also where did she start bleeding? Right.

Like what are you talking about? None of this makes sense.

He said even that she had her leg out of one of her pant legs because she was squatting to pee.

Which also doesn't make sense because she's not far from campus.

I don't think she was. I don't think that's true at all.

She was in campus. i mean i meant to say she's not far from her dorm like exactly you know like like why would she squat to pee at the arena on the ground right And also, she wouldn't have time to take her leg out of her jeans.

Like, think about the 80s, man. How tight the jeans were.

I'm sure you're wearing the sneakers that you got to untie.

You got to pull your leg out. You didn't have time to do that in the space that he was coming.

I don't know if this is just me, or let me know if you've ever peed in the woods.

You don't take your pants completely off.

No, I've never taken my pants off to pee anywhere.

No, you push them back. exactly you just squat right and she just wasn't doing that like that's not the truth at all Like, nowhere did I find a report that said, like, there was pee on the ground.

Right. Like, that she, somebody had peed.

Like, it just... wasn't like why why even lie about that that's such a weird fucking detail to lie about and There was a Kentucky Fried Chicken outside of the gate.

Right. Across the parking lot. She could have just peed in there.

Right. She didn't pee. And again, she's on campus.

She's not far from her dorm. And he said when this happened, he just, quote, went over.

So again, he's like, oh, sorry. And she goes, that's OK. very normal interaction between two strangers.

Then he says, He just, quote, went over and I pushed her into the wall and just and then he said, I don't know how to say it.

This infuriates me. You do. You can do it, but you're too chicken shit to relay it verbally, you fucking anal fissure.

Like, are you kidding me? Yeah. You don't know how to say it, but you know how to do it.

Think of the words, Brian, because you fucking did it.

Right. to me, it's like, you just came upon this girl, bumped into her, and then shoved her against a wall?

What the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah. Like, oh, this guy's a...

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Bye. So he says quote, I tried to take advantage of her.

I tried but I couldn't. I couldn't do anything.

I just went nuts. I went crazy. He can't even say what he did.

That's what's driving me nuts. He's just using like, I just went nuts.

I went crazy. I don't know. it's like you say the fucking words right and you said that he had been drinking right yeah he had that goes back and forth though Do you think also, though, that part of his anger was that he couldn't do something?

Well, he tries to actually claim that a little bit.

Yeah. But... Or do you think he... No, I think he's a demon.

Yeah. And I think he's a violent piece of shit.

Oh, I think that. And I think he saw her and he said, I'm going to rape her and I'm going to hurt her if she fights me.

Right. And I think that was it. And I think she fought him back and he hurt her.

Yeah, I think so. I think he's just a fucking demon.

But he tries to use that. Because it's an excuse.

Yeah, he tries to use it as an excuse, like I got angry.

And it's like something beyond his control.

Yeah. And at one point he even says a crazier thing.

So he's an idiot. Now, this should tell you right here that he should be locked up forever. that he can't even say the words of what he did.

Also, he's claiming to have shoved her in the wall and then tried but failed to rape her.

And he really is trying to claim, with her injuries that they saw, that he shoved her into the wall one time.

Just, boop, shoved her into the wall. No.

You, like, he's a hangnail. Her family didn't recognize her when she was wheeled past them.

Like... And you're saying you pushed her into a wall once?

No, the cops knew. They were like, you're a fucking hangnail.

We don't need to listen to what you like.

They didn't buy any of this shit. But they let him talk because regardless, he was confessing to something.

Now, he said a couple of minutes after he just, quote, went crazy, a car drove in.

It left again and then it came back. These were obviously the two guards.

And so he basically relayed what Avadikian and Shandy said happened, like the car came in, the car left, they came back again, then the two guards came out. now what may taught was like okay back it up and he said what did you do to her exactly it Because he was like, you're not giving me actually what you did.

You're brushing over things. Yeah. And he said his response was she couldn't, I don't think she could see me.

And when I walked up, she was holding onto the wall or something.

She must have been drunk. Oh yeah, that's totally... What?

Now remember, Todd Kilburn. Was with her all night.

And said she was completely fine. And said she was not impaired.

And she hadn't even had a drink in like an hour.

At least an hour. Right. Now, he says she must have been drunk, I think.

I don't know. She was staggering. I also just love that he's like, I just did this to some drunk girl.

Like it's her fault for being drunk. oh don't worry he's not the only one who claims it's her fault are you fucking kidding me you better believe it Now, and again, remember, Todd Kilburn said she was not staggering.

She was on her feet. She was completely coherent.

I know. Never would have let her walk by herself if she wasn't.

He said she wasn't slurring even in the slightest.

And now he's going to sit here and say she was staggering.

And he said, and I just pushed her into the wall and right into the wall hard with her face.

So now we're getting closer because they're kind of pulling out of him like, okay, so you did hit her face against the wall, but He's like, you know, like once hard.

Right. No, that's not it. And he then reiterated that he pushed her only once and that he tried but failed to rape her.

Then it gets worse. He said that he had not kicked or hit her at all.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Not once.

Also you just fucking said two minutes ago that you did.

So then he said all of a sudden. and she was just bleeding from her face.

That happens. Yeah, spontaneously. Yeah.

And he actually said, I just looked at her and I said, I know I didn't do that.

I just know that I did not beat that girl that way.

I know because you're such a good person.

And then he says she had already been hit repeatedly before I'd seen her there.

Yes, I tried to take advantage of her, but somebody started to do the same thing before I did, and I just got caught.

So now he's claiming someone had already beaten and raped Katie when he got there.

And now he's... I don't know in what world he thinks that this makes him any better, that he came upon her like that and he decided to do it again.

And also, at what point did that happen while you were following her, you fucking idiot?

You just told us you were following her from when Todd left.

And she didn't look like that before. But now all of a sudden you're changing your story.

He's also, I feel like, trying to make it seem like He came to and realized, oh, I couldn't have done this.

Somebody else did this. I wonder if that was like partially going for some kind of insanity.

Oh, yeah, I'm sure. And that's because they definitely try to get that.

It fails miserably because he is not. Yeah, clearly.

He very much knows what he's doing. He's just a violent motherfucker.

I mean, the timing with Todd Kilburn was able to provide the timing of when they got up to that gate.

And there was other people around that said they saw them at the gate.

The time is right for her to leave, walk to that walk arena with barely any time.

And then by the time the guards heard the noise and the ruckus and came out, there was barely any time.

There was no time for one other person to have done this to her.

It's just not true. And I'm sorry, but in what fucking world does that happen?

Somebody gets attacked twice. So this campus is now just like the worst place you could ever be on planet it earth because not this girl got attacked twice in the manner of minutes right just walking onto campus like what no So then he started talking about Todd Kilburn.

I knew that was going to come. I knew he was going to do that.

And by the way, Todd Kilburn came in and gave his story to police.

Like he was like, here's exactly what happened.

Now, obviously he didn't name Todd because he didn't know who he was, but he started describing him and saying that when they had left each other at the gate, remember, his last statement a minute ago was that when he heard them say their goodbyes at the gate, very happy, very friendly goodbye.

Now he's saying that he was screaming at her angrily And they left on angry terms and he yelled something at her as she left.

What? He specifically even used the term before. that they said something like, see you later, like used that specifically.

Like could that have been what he yelled at her?

See you later. Like good try, shithead. Like, you're really going to change your story in the middle of the story.

He's lying so much that he can't even remember what he lied about.

That's the problem. He's making this up. up as he goes that is so scary that like within a minute's time he's like Oh, yeah, she left and he was happy and they said, see you later.

And then... in like a matter of seconds he goes into oh no they were yelling they were screaming at each other yeah And they brought that up.

They were like, well, you just said that they were fine when they left.

And he was like, no, I didn't say that. And then he goes, the guy was mad.

I didn't say that he wasn't mad. Do you think it's like a game?

Yeah. Like what? No, I think it's specifically what is happening here is...

You can hear it while he talks because he stammers to say something.

He'll kind of like double talk just to get through a sentence.

And it's like, he's just making this up on the spot.

And he's a bad improv artist. He's not good at this.

And he just can't even recount what he said a minute ago. uh and then i went to that place and there was a tree and i saw the tree like he's just making making it up as he goes along and I don't know.

And then it's just like he contradicts himself because he doesn't take into account what he just said.

It's just so wild to me that people's brains work that way.

He's evil. So they let this go because once again, Brian McCarthy is incriminating himself.

So they're like, let's just let him keep fucking this up.

So they kept asking about the attack, hoping he was going to keep failing at this whole thing like he already was.

And when asked again how many times he shoved Katie's face into the wall, because he kept saying once...

He said, quote, well once real hard that I meant to and the other time I didn't.

I didn't mean to do it. I was just I was trying to get her out of the corner, trying to sit her up or help her. or whatever and i dropped her how dare he sit there and say that he was trying to help her Yeah.

And he says, and I dropped her and her face and her head hit the wall real hard, real hard, trying to help her.

And the worst part of this is that you know he's sitting there reliving this and somehow gets enjoyment out of it.

And he's sitting there claiming to be this hero that he's a victim as well because he got attacked and he was just trying to help her.

Right. And then... Somehow it hit her head against the wall.

He then said, he quote, so after this, he was like, I definitely kicked her once.

But I thought you literally just said that you never kicked her.

Dude. And then he said he did kick her, but it was an accident.

How do you kick somebody by accident? Exactly.

That's toddler shit. Right. That's a toddler. response very did you just kick your sister it was an accident that doesn't Maybe if you're swinging your legs doing something, but not when you're attacking somebody.

You don't kick them by accident. And he said, quote, I was trying to get her out of the corner, trying to set her up or help her or whatever and I dropped her.

And he just said, that's what happened. Okay.

And then he admitted to removing her clothing accidentally, I'm sure.

And he said he, quote, had all his weight behind him when he ran up on her and shoved her face into that wall.

God. They kept pressing and he said he never punched her or hit her with his hand, but then immediately followed that up with, I hit her in the midsection and she kind of snapped her neck.

You know, her neck went back like that when she hit the wall.

So you didn't hit her with your hand, but you hit her with your hand and then that happened?

Get it straight, dude. What? He also had a swollen hand.

His right hand was swollen. And he was trying to hide it.

And his index finger was all beat up. Then he said something that chilled every drop of blood in my body.

Oh, God. Manor tried to get him to admit to kicking her intentionally and several times because it was clear he had.

And he said, quote, no, I didn't. But I was I was rolling her and pushing her and just I was really, really mad.

I was like picking her up and throwing her.

And I was just using every bit, every bit of my strength in my body to move that girl. just shake her insides out.

Oh, my God. Literally said shake her inside.

And you don't he doesn't even know this girl's name.

And oh, and it gets so much worse with that kind of stuff with him.

He doesn't give a shit. No, obviously not.

He has no regard. You know that some of those horrific. monster murderers that will know the names of their victims and will say them in interviews and stuff, and you're like, ugh. like don't say their name he's even worse he doesn't get to it we'll get to it oh no So he said he hit under the stairs because he had just, you know... raped a girl.

And he basically said that. He was like, I just raped a girl so I had to sit on the stand.

So they were like, what? And he goes... I just tried to rape a girl.

Wow. And they were like, honey, you're giving us everything we need.

Right. And he ended up in the interview saying he was not the only one who did this to her.

Someone had already done it. Before he got there.

So at this point, he's like, does it matter that I did it because someone else did it?

And then he started, we found out that Todd Kilburn was wearing a black jacket.

So when he saw Todd Kilburn and her talking.

That's where it came from. He used that to be like, this could do it.

Mental note. Yeah. Yeah. So this fuck then asked, after all of this, how is she doing?

I would have gouged his eyeballs out. I literally would have been like, you don't get to know.

I'd be like, you're going to be doing wonder.

Sit there and wonder. What's going to happen to you?

Are you going to get charged for rape? Are you going to get charged for murder and spend the rest of your life in prison like you deserve to either way?

You sit there and fucking wonder well then what's even worse is he said will you update me on her condition no Oh, so you can, like he knew he was going to be facing a murder charge.

That's exactly what it was. He didn't give a shit about her condition.

He just wanted to know what charges were coming to him.

I would have made him wonder for weeks. I would have literally been like, guess you'll never know i don't know now you'll find out it's sentencing fuck face now this is where like that katie's family Just what a bunch of ballsy, like, just, I just want to like high five them all. would they do because they just like didn't, they didn't retreat into a hole.

After, like, when this happened, they were like, now we're going to fuck shit up.

And Katie's older sister, Betsy, was home.

She had lived in another state. And she was home with Carrie and Joe Jr. because they were like teenagers at the time.

Right. And she was like, I just couldn't sit any longer and just wonder what was going on.

Because the parents were trying to keep them from seeing Katie.

Of course. And they're probably trying to figure out how we're going to tell them all of the details of this without traumatizing them.

Well, and you're like, do they need to know?

Do we tell them? How much do they need to know?

These are their children. Life does not prepare you to tell your children that their sibling has been brutally raped and murdered.

And that the world is theirs. Yeah, nobody can ever prepare you for that conversation.

There's no instruction manual for that. And it's like, I can't imagine.

While you're going through the grief of what's happening.

Exactly. And you're just shattering every like, like safety net. you thought you had absolutely like you're just like unfortunately you're actually never safe anywhere Yeah, it's like the day your kids find that out is like must be the worst time.

Yeah, and to have to explain that. Yeah, and it's like, ugh.

Now, she just up and drove to the campus to get some answers.

She literally up and drove to Clarkson University because she was like, I am not going to fuck around here.

I need to know what's going on. This is my sister.

So she literally went to Katie's apartment on campus.

She interrogated her roommates like a true fucking sister would.

Hell yeah. They told her the story that they were all at bogeys that evening. that they had left her, but she was with other friends.

They were like, we didn't leave her alone.

She was with Todd and everybody. And they said one of them was Todd Kilburn and that he had apparently walked her home.

So Betsy went and tracked down. Todd Kilburn on campus at the frat house and questioned him.

She even went to the crime scene at the Walker Arena investigating it herself i can't imagine to like see her last steps to be like what could have happened to you right like Who does that?

Baddest sister alert. Like, baddest in a good way.

Sister alert. That's a sister. On the planet.

Now, August 31st at around 3 p.m., Terry and Joe Sr. were told...

Unfortunately that Katie had suffered brain death and would not recover.

Oh, man. So now the next step was giving consent to the doctors to remove the ventilator, keeping her clinically alive.

And like everything these people have gone through in a matter of days to sit there and like wonder whether or not she's going to make it.

And come to terms with what happened to her either way.

That's the thing. And it's like, now you have to make...

That decision. Like nobody wants to ever, ever make that decision.

I can't even. That is a seat you never want to be sitting in. before they could do that, there was legal stuff that delayed it a bit, which hurts my head because what the fuck fucking decision you have to make.

And then it's getting mucked up by legal shit.

Because it has to do with the murder charges, right?

Because technically, if you make the decision to pull...

I was going to say the DA's office was making sure every I was dotted, every T was crossed. before that ventilator was removed so that McCarthy's fucking lawyers, like you were saying, can't claim that she maybe would have lived if the doctors didn't pull the because you know that famous case it's uh it's one of the first law and order episodes I ever watched and it's The one where I think she may have been pregnant or they had a young child.

I do know what you're talking about. And he killed her.

The husband killed her. But she lived for a little bit.

That whole thing came into play there. That's the same kind of thing.

But it's like for that to have to be part of...

That whole decision making process. And to have to sit there and think about that.

The legal ramifications and that this guy, could he get off?

Right. If this is done the improper way.

And to sit there and think that these lawyers would even make that fucking argument of like, no, you killed her like that well and as we'll see mccarthy's lawyer does try to pull that And tries to say the doctors were the murderers.

How do you... How? That's a... That's a...

That's a tough one. I'm like you. I would not put my head on the pillow at night. go home at night and like that's an argument that you feel good about I understand like defense attorneys and like what a job And I totally get that they have to do everything they can.

That's their job. certain particular argument i'm like you really feel good about that one no i don't a time you feel good about there are certain lengths i think you just don't go to yeah and this is just my opinion like i am not a defense attorney so i don't know what it takes That's just one argument I could never wrap my brain around.

No. never wrap my heart around. I wouldn't feel good going home being like, I guess we're going to blame the doctors today.

I don't think so. And then the family gets looped into that because it's ultimately their decision.

Exactly. So now they're put on the hook.

That's a very how dare you moment. How dare you, indeed.

So it wasn't until September 1st that she was officially taken off life support.

Her entire family was around her when they did it, everybody.

I'm glad that they got to be there for that.

Yeah, of course. The thing with taking somebody off life support is a lot of people think you unplug everything and it's whoop.

And it's over. It doesn't work that way.

That's not how it works. Sometimes that's how it works.

Sometimes it can take days. And their body still happens.

Luckily, I guess, I would say luckily, just so they didn't have to endure... a long drawn out process.

She died in only 20 minutes. Which also should tell you how bad this was.

How much her body was fighting. Her body simply couldn't.

Yeah. Like that should tell you how much Brian McCarthy deserves to be in jail. that should tell you that the doctors in this case have nothing to do with what his defense attorneys were trying to argue.

Yeah, it's just... And apparently the morning that Katie's parents had to rush into the hospital after she was initially attacked... a neighbor of Terry's named Isabel McConnell, who was a good friend of hers. had tried to comfort her by saying that Katie would be, she was like, you know what, Katie's going to be all right.

Because that's just what you say. Of course.

And Terry said she couldn't help. She was like, I know this sounds crazy, but I couldn't help but hold a grudge against her neighbor and her friend because she said, After her death, she said, quote, I loved her dearly, meaning her neighbor.

And she said, I loved her dearly and I never told her this.

I never said a word to her that, damn it, she lied to me.

She was my good friend and she lied to me.

And that anger that Terry must have felt for Brian and the helplessness must have made it...

So impossible to reconcile those feelings because I get that.

Absolutely. It's totally irrational and she knows it.

She's like, I know this is like... But I was mad.

Right. Like the world was telling me that like I should have my daughter.

The world tells me that this should not happen and it happened.

Yeah, there's just no rationale when it comes to somebody brutally murdering your child.

And that should tell you like how it ruins the people that love them.

Yeah. Like, she's literally like, I couldn't help it.

I was angry that someone had told me she was going to be alright.

I can guarantee you I would have felt the exact same way.

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Now, Brian McCarthy was immediately charged with second degree murder.

Now I learned this from William LaRue in A Stranger Killed Katie.

Apparently at this time in New York, you could only be charged with first-degree murder if the victim was a cop or a prison guard.

What? Yeah, it was like a weird... Like a weird... Yeah.

This was in the 80s, remember. So this was a while ago.

Weird shit. Weird shit on the books. Isn't it wild that that's like, what, 40 years ago?

I don't even know. You're asking me to do math right now?

Yeah, it's 40. What kind of question is that?

Math. It's math. A subtraction question.

Too much for me. Now, the autopsy for Katie was done by Jefferson County Assistant Medical Examiner Joven joven g kwan excuse me but medical examiner virgilio a allen was supervising the whole thing That's very common that that happens.

Now, Kwan noted that there were several external injuries to Katie's body.

There were severe and extensive bruising to her face, head, neck, and shoulders, and she had two black eyes, and her nose and mouth were swollen.

Now, she had a ton of defensive wounds also, like very much she was fighting back.

Yes. And one of these was a compound fracture to her right index finger.

Yeah. So this tells you how brutal this was and how much she was fighting against him.

Now, her cause of death. was listed as asphyxia due to manual strangulation.

Oh, yes. Isn't that a shocker? Brian McCarthy lied a lot.

Yeah, Katie never said anything about strangling her.

Katie had a fractured hyoid bone. which you may know is the telltale sign that someone has been strangled.

The bone bends, so if pressure is placed on one side of the neck, it will bend the other way.

And if the fractured bone tells a pathologist that pressure has been placed severely onto both sides of the neck. to break that bone.

Like he can't claim like I kicked her or something because it will just bend.

Right. Now, another way to be able to tell she was strangled was her brain.

She had a bruise on her left frontal lobe and her brain was in a state of neuronal necrosis.

This is basically that the neurons had died specifically due to lack of oxygen.

Okay. How does this happen? Strangling someone and then depriving their brain of oxygen for an extended period of time.

Yeah. Here's the kicker, and it's something Ash had postured in part one, actually.

Would it have saved Katie? for those guards to just come to her aid while the attack was happening.

They couldn't say for sure. But if she wasn't strangled already when they first saw her... then she was not dead and she didn't have fatal injuries yet. because they said all those external injuries, while brutal and terrible, probably wouldn't have killed her.

Those were the only injuries she sustained.

They said, although it was severe and brutal, she would have been alive had they seen her.

So just on its own... It's hard to say.

This is really one of those things where it's like you can look at it from a couple of different angles.

Well, and it's so hard because it's I think it comes down to such an exact timing of when they would have had to seen her.

Exactly. Excuse me. that you really can't say either way.

But then if we look back back on some of his interrogation.

Again, I urge you to read the book because it has a lot of the interrogation in there, like the quotes.

He says a lot of times that she was mumbling a lot.

So he mentions, because they'll ask her, they'll ask him, was she conscious?

Was she unconscious when you were doing this, that?

She was conscious, he says most of the time, and she was mumbling or making sounds.

To me, that sounds like alive. That sounds like you hadn't strangled her yet.

Right. So if the guards came upon this...

She was technically still alive, and if they had intervened... they could have possibly stopped it.

Of course, there's that double-edged sword of like...

We don't know. And also like, there's a lot of factors there that like, was it negligent?

Yeah. Yeah, it just was. But it was unfortunately so many other parts than just those officers who weren't even officers.

They were guards. Exactly. It was negligent in about 15 different levels to that point.

Yeah. It truly is just negligent all around.

So yeah, it's impossible to tell really, but there is a possibility, which is devastating.

Now, of course, once Katie had passed away and it was murder, the media went nuts and they started the blame game as they often do.

Everyone but Brian was to blame, apparently.

They went after the university in the papers, the security guards.

And they weren't the ones, like, none of the... that I could find was blaming Katie for it, but they were blaming everyone else.

And I was like, can we maybe talk about the guy who did it with his hands?

Yeah. Like maybe do that. But Joe senior did release once it started going crazy and people were like throwing accusations out there.

Um, Joe Sr., Katie's father, released a statement that read, I've seen the newspapers today and I've talked to the Potsdam police from the very first.

I, her mother, and her whole family in no way feel that there is any fault on the part of Clarkson University or the village of Potsdam.

OK, that changes when more information comes out.

They were not at this point. They were not aware of the fact that two security guards had witnessed the attack and had not stopped or stopped to investigate it.

So they did not have that information when they said that.

Okay. So obviously that changes. Because obviously we're seeing a lot of negligence at that part on the university's part and the guards part.

So it's like at that point it is going to change.

Apparently the president, Alan Clark, the president at the time, and some of the other officials from Clarkson University had come to the hospital on a few occasions. to comfort the family, talk with them throughout the ordeal before Katie was taken off of life support.

So they were feeling very comforted by them and that they actually gave a shit.

Unfortunately, to me, yeah. Feels like they were trying to avoid that civil lawsuit that was going to be coming through once the real shit came out. thinks because like I didn't want to be the one to say it and I was kind of looking at you trying to get the eyes of if I could say that or not it's that's just that's what it looks To me?

Yeah. When you come through all this stuff, it certainly looks like that was the case.

I'm sure they cared. They're human beings.

Yeah, but I think there was a little more like all the information wasn't out yet and they probably knew in the back of their heads when it did come out, what had actually happened that night, that they weren't going to look great.

Yeah, I'm sure that there were people who went out of the kindness and goodness of their heart.

And I'm sure there were people who went because they needed to save face.

Exactly. Now they were all just trying to, the family at this point is just trying to get through the day to day. to do their best to make sure Katie's life was honored and justice was served for her killer.

And they all did this in very different ways. because you have to return to life and jobs and some sense of normalcy.

But how? How do you do that when your child or sister has been brutally raped and murdered?

I have absolutely no idea. Joe Jr., her brother, was quoted in the book as saying, quote, in retrospect, it seems we all kind of retreated to our corners for a bit.

I don't remember feeling alienated from my parents but I remember there was my grief that I had to deal with first.

Well, that's the thing, because everybody processes grief so differently.

Yeah, I think everybody was like, whoo. We've got to take a second.

It's healthy to me. Yeah, it happens a lot, I'm sure, in families, especially bigger families, because like I just said, everybody's so different.

You need a second. And I'm sure it's probably hard to be together without Katie.

It's like you could feel the elephant in the room.

That's what it is. It's like when you're together, it must be amplified.

Right. a billion because there's someone missing.

But when you're just like alone, maybe you can distract yourself or go about what you need to go about.

Now her friends were also having to deal with this sudden loss.

And remember, she has a ton of friends. who loved her.

And she had one roommate that she was super close with who had moved.

Yeah, Nancy. And they were teenagers, too.

These are teenagers. I can't imagine being 19 years old. in having this happen.

You would never expect to lose your friend at that age and especially in such a horrific way.

In college, it's like you're invincible.

Yeah, of course. And she had a lifelong friend.

Katie had a lifelong friend named Jim Damiano.

They were like since kids best friends. They were as close as siblings.

They had like a very sweet, close friendship.

Really sweet. He wrote an article in the Syracuse Herald Journal, and he said, quote, quote, I've lost more than a best friend.

I lost a part of myself. To all of Katie's friends, there is a little bit of Katie left in all of us.

Let's follow her example and enjoy our lives and live them to the fullest.

To Katie's family. Be thankful to have been blessed with such a fine person for 19 years.

She loved you all very, very much. I know she is in a much better place than here and she deserves it.

That's beautiful. Her friends were like, you don't understand who she was.

And that says so much about who she was.

It truly does. Now, September 4th, newspapers were running all kinds of stories as things came out about the case. and about Brian on the day and the night of the rape and murder.

Now all the stories are coming out about where he was, what he was doing.

Right. The stories about him getting into the fist fight earlier that night at the Chateau.

And shooting someone in the leg. Claiming he shot up somebody in the leg.

Right. And there was somebody who said he stole $3.

That came out. Yes. hitchhiking shenanigans came out, and then a super bizarre story came out.

So it's insane. So apparently after Robert Warren Jr., the guy who picked him up as the hitchhiker, After he dropped him off in Potsdam and quickly hauled us to the police station to talk about what a scary dude he was,

Brian was already deeply entrenched after he got dropped off in another weird-ass moment in Potsdam.

So a student from Potsdam State named Thomas D. Rupert had come forward with a story from that night.

He said he and another student were walking around hanging at a bar.

They were hanging at a bar for a bit and then they walked out.

It was a bit after midnight. They were walking through a parking lot on Main Street in Potsdam when a man just started yelling at them.

And they said he had dark hair, scruffy beard.

Brian McCarthy. Yeah. He started yelling at them and he was like saying shit to them.

They really couldn't understand, but he was like being a dick.

Yeah. So they yelled back at him, shut up, and then just like walked.

Iconic. He followed them. Of course. They said when he came up to them, he said he was a police officer and they were like, Yeah, no.

So they were like, which I love this. They were like, okay. like you're a fucking wreck like you don't look like a police officer like you can't even manage a bath my son um But they were like, never mind a whole ass career.

What are you? Is that how you school people?

My son. Sit down. So they said, show me your badge then.

Right. And he wouldn't. So he then told them if they moved a muscle, he was going to blow them away with his gun.

And he put his hand behind his back like he had one.

So they kind of taunted him a bit, which I don't recommend doing.

No. And we're like, oh, you have a gun, huh?

Like, don't do that because you don't know.

And he was like, I do shut up. But then he admitted that he was lying.

Okay. So like what? And then he told them he was Brian McCarthy, literally told them his name.

He showed them his license to prove it. And he said he was working with three state troopers that evening.

These state troopers were legit in the fucking trees at the moment with sniper rifles pointed at the students.

For what, dude? And then he had been paid $250 to watch those students.

No. And they literally were just like, no, that's not true.

Like that is not a true story. You pressed an incorrect key.

And he was like, okay, fine. I'm lying. But do you like, I feel bad now do you want me to like buy you a beer or do you want to like smoke some of my weed with me I don't want to smoke anything that's in your pipe.

And they were like, no, sir. No. One of them, I guess, was like, you can buy us a beer at the bar, though.

Which I'd be like, you can definitely do that.

That's some college student shit. That is.

Because I'd be like... No, like I would like I'd be like, you can disappear from my life forever.

Thanks. Like that can be your repayment in college.

If somebody offers to buy you beer, it's always a hell. yeah and they were like hell yeah especially if like he's just buying it and like it's not handing you like that's a beer so they had a beer together and that was it he just left I just love that he was like, here's my license and my full last name and all of my information.

And he did that because he was trying to do the like, I'm an informant with the police.

So like, here's my license. I'm not lying.

You can trust me. But why would you not? think that like they're gonna go to the police and say like hey is brian mccarthy working with you and then the police are gonna say nah and it sounds like he was definitely on stuff or very drunk or something was She doesn't sound like he's just smoking weed.

No, and that's the thing. They were never able to like really nail it down.

But then he's definitely a drug abuser and he's a known like alcohol abuser.

Right. And so at this point, like, so that story came out and everyone's like, what the fuck?

Right, like what the fuck is this guy? At this point, because Katie has passed away, it's now a new charge of murder being added. which makes for a longer process sometimes.

So on September 5th, they held the preliminary hearing for Brian McCarthy.

This hearing was to determine if Brian McCarthy should be held in jail while a grand jury would be meeting to indict him on the murder charge.

It's like such a process. It really is.

So Avadikian and Shandi had to take the stand again and tell their stories.

They both said it was definitely Brian McCarthy who they saw on top of Katie that night.

They were positive. And Lieutenant McKendry, who was in the room when Brian confessed, was stopped short on the stand by Brian's lawyer, Charles Nash.

He asked the judge, Justice Rogers, to officially close the hearing to the media at this point. because he said there was always a chance the confession will be deemed inadmissible, which it happens. at some later point, and if that was going to happen in this case, which he was going to try for, they didn't want the media to already have published portions of it Okay.

Because at that point, no jury would be able to be untainted if they saw that.

The judge agreed, so she also ordered that he had to have a psychological evaluation done.

She eventually ruled that he would absolutely have to stay locked up until that grand jury meeting, which thank goodness.

Good. He was evaluated. They found that he had a very high IQ, but that he had no, like he was not insane.

It's also so annoying when like they... You're like, why can't you just do something good with your smarts?

Like, why are you... running around, like, accosting people and attacking women at night and killing people.

Like, you're a waste. But throughout this, and this happens often, the family was feeling a bit left out of the loop.

They weren't getting updates. They were not feeling like they had power and making sure their daughter or sister's rapist and murderer would be in bars. behind bars for good.

And they were looking to make sure justice was served for Katie, but also for anyone else who went through something like this in the future.

They were looking at they were like, we want to make sure that no other family has to go through this.

So they wanted to know their rights and they wanted to know how they could be more involved, if they could be more involved and just more informed.

So Terry, Katie's mom, ended up hiring Joseph Fahey, an attorney Christopher Wiles, to aid her in this.

Fahey was a public defender and a defense attorney and also she was a known expert when it comes to all things about the insanity defense.

So this was an opportunity for Terry, Katie's mom, to ask if there was a possibility that he would... try to use that defense, and if they had a shot at making it work.

So Fahey went to Potsdam and he talked to Officer Perretta about Katie and the case.

They were able to read through the case file and see all the reports. because Perretta left the huge file on the table when he left the room.

Whoopsie. And to them, they were like, it felt like he left it to be like, you can't read through this.

And then he just left like... Like, do what you will.

They said they immediately could see that he was not insane or impaired. that way because he had made great efforts to lie about his crime right after committing it, like immediately upon committing it, and then also after that.

Yeah. They also came to the conclusion and told Terry that she and Joe Sr. should consider suing McCarthy for wrongful death and suing the university itself for the security guard's negligence.

They basically wanted them to do this because there was a chance just the threat alone would force Clarkson to think about their security lapses. and make changes that could help future students good they weren't even concerned with the financial they were like we just want them to make changes and if this is what it takes Yeah, we don't want this to happen again.

Which that's amazing that they had the wherewithal to do that.

Yeah. Now Clarkson University, meanwhile, was claiming that they would do all they could to keep students safe but the president, Alan Clark, was also claiming that it was a safe campus and that this was an anomaly.

After another student was raped at a huge toga party in the dorms on campus, They finally decided they should put more lights outside and actually add a connection between the two-way radios they gave the night watchmen. so that the police outside could actually be connected and they wouldn't have to go searching for a phone in an emergency. on a college campus.

That's unreal to me. The community was upset and wanted the university to do more and take this issue more seriously.

Yeah. So Clarkson ended up setting up two public forums.

And one of them was in Syracuse. And they let people talk.

They talked about what they wanted to do.

They invited Terry to the one in Syracuse.

And she went with her attorney, Christopher Wiles.

And at this forum, Clark once again said Clarkson was safe. and then basically said that the attack on Katie was only because she had put herself in a bad position by walking alone at 3.30 a.m.

Literally get absolutely wrecked. Get so fucked Clarkson University at this time.

Go fuck yourself sideways at that time. Are you kidding me?

Yeah. I truly, truly, truly cannot We're going to blame a young woman who is dead.

Who's... who has died. And it's her fault for why can't I walk at 3 a.m.?

Well, that's the thing. It's like. Okay, but maybe should we say that, like, people shouldn't murder people at any time during the day?

Right. Maybe we can say that? I'm sorry, do we hit a time during the night where it's like, well, you know People are just allowed to murder, so it's your fault for being out there.

Because that's the thing. I thought we had a law that no one can murder people.

And that's exactly it. We do just in case anybody forgot.

Isn't that a thing? Yeah. But they talk about this girl walking at 3 a.m.

Like, that's the crime that unfolded here.

She put herself in a bad position. Yeah, I'm sure she was also wearing revealing clothing, too.

They should have just added that in there for good effect.

Yeah. well there he already tried to do the whole she was drunk like that's her fault Does this go to show anybody listening how fucking long this is?

This shit has been happening. Yeah. And it's like, Brian McCarthy is an evil monster of a human being. who has shown for years that he is an evil monster of a human being, continues now to show he is an evil monster of a human being.

Let's just blame him. Yeah. Let's not blame Katie for walking home. yet just literally walking home, and for being considerate enough to not want her friend to have to walk out of his way to walk her home. those words come out of your mouth as an individual well she shouldn't have been this girl who has died shouldn't have been walking home in what world do you think that's going to go over well And that that makes any sense on any galaxy.

You know how there's that whole thing called like a filter like it happens in your brain first and then it's got to come out of your mouth that should have that should have stayed in the drafts by dude you would think wow

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Now, after this unconscionable showing by the university officials blaming Katie for her own rape and murder, I can't even imagine what her mom wanted to do to these people.

Terry heard this and was like... Okay. And she immediately was like, okay, let's start that civil suit against the university.

Let's go. Let's get one against Brian McCarthy.

And let's get one against those two security guards for negligence.

Yeah, like you want to say some shit, I'll rock your shit.

You want to play? For the university suit they put in there that they had knowingly hired two inexperienced guards, not even security guards, and then didn't give them proper training and that they knew students were using that shortcut that was not properly lit and there was no security there.

Yeah, and the response by their insurance company, the Clarkson University Insurance Company and the defense team, that Katie's injuries and death were caused by Brian McCarthy and Katie herself, because she engaged in culpable conduct.

What? They literally blamed her. What? What the fuck is wrong with everybody?

It gets worse. How? They then said that they shouldn't have to pay for pain and suffering because Katie was not conscious during most of the attack.

So they were trying to say... What about before that happened?

They were trying to say... that because she went unconscious for part of this attack, that she didn't suffer any pain and suffering.

Oh, I'm sorry, were you there? Do you know at which point she became unconscious?

Are you kidding me? How? again that is how dare you how do you put your fucking head on the pillow at night That's some evil, evil shit.

See, and to me that says you don't have a mom, you don't have a sister, you don't have a daughter. yeah like so who are you what are like you don't have anyone you love Are you kidding?

Do you have anyone that you love in your life?

Like you can't. How do you just have no empathy and compassion?

And I just think of like, oh, just like knowing someone that that's their job and they do that.

I'm like, ooh. Can you imagine like if that, like if you were like married to somebody that does that?

No. I would be like, well, divorce. I'd be like, I can't get down with this.

Like, we are two different people. That's the Parks and Rec straight to jail.

It truly is straight to jail. Get out of here.

Go straight to jail. That's the kind of thinking that's just so sideways.

It's outrageous. How does your brain even concoct such a statement?

I'm like, I'm so angry and just like fully in shock.

Oh, yeah. Now during this, they also found out that President Alan Clark had also interviewed the two guards. without anyone knowing, and that there was tape recordings and transcripts of this, but the university was refusing to give them to the court.

That's shady. And he had interviewed them shortly after.

So to me, that seems like they're trying to cover it up because they probably got some information during those.

They probably answered truthfully. Yeah.

And it probably doesn't paint everybody in a great light.

So they don't want them to know. Like on the agenda that day was also assigning people probably to it. go to the hospital.

And later they were able to get these transcripts and the tapes and we were right and they were right, that it does prove that there was a lot of negligence here and that The university was trying very hard to pretend that there was a lot of extra lighting in that area that they kept trying to make them say in the tapes like, well, it was very well lit, right?

Why can't you just say that you're wrong and then do better?

And then just fix it. That's the thing. Like nobody is like...

Everybody's just looking for you to make it right.

That's the thing. That's all. But to go against it so hard and blame everybody else.

Yeah, they dug their own grave here. That's the thing.

Like, fuck you. Yeah. It's really crazy.

So Brian McCarthy was indicted on three murder counts and he pled not guilty.

There were three because they were not able to definitively determine specifics about the rape.

So there was a charge for murder. There was a charge that he strangled her while raping her.

And then there was a charge saying he strangled her while attempting to rape her. okay the sentence for any of these anyone that he got was 25 years to life Now his defense attorney, Charles Nash, filed an order for the prosecution to turn over evidence any evidence that Katie had had consensual sex in the 48 hours prior to her rape and murder.

Why does that matter? Luckily, there's things that can stop that from happening today.

Why the fuck would that matter? Then, so that's the thing.

He's literally being like, well, I want to know, like, was she having sex anytime in the last 48 hours?

First of all, that's none of your fucking business was your client and it has nothing to do with this were you yeah what like Who gives a fuck?

Security guards saw her being raped. We don't need it.

Like people saw her literally. What do we, we're not, what would that, what would that have to do with anything?

Like, it happened. They're just trying to make it seem like she's promiscuous or something.

Which was, oh, it's just so frustrating.

Wow. Then Charles Nash said that there was a possibility that the doctors were the ones who killed Katie and not Brian McCarthy.

But remember, they'd already known he was going to pull that kind of absolute horseshit.

And they did this before removing her life support.

So he literally said, quote, disconnecting of the life support system may have been premature. and due to gross negligence or intentional wrongdoing of the doctors.

Let's talk about your wrongdoing. He's literally saying these doctors intentionally murdered her.

I don't know how people in that courtroom sat there and didn't say to this man, Your wrongdoing is all happening right now.

Now what's even worse, during this whole thing, Nash and McCarthy were allowed to view graphic crime scene photos showing Katie and also a photo of her nude on an autopsy table.

Why was he allowed to see that? Why was he allowed to see these?

Why? I have no idea. that never should have been allowed.

I was going to say, is that something that happens?

Yeah. And honestly, her family didn't find this out until way later down the line, like when it was already done.

The way this family was mistreated. The pain.

That must have... The extra trauma that that would add, so fucking irresponsible.

How... How do you show him that? The whole reason he's sitting here is because he raped and killed this girl.

And give her a little fucking dignity. seriously.

Like, are you kidding me? Now, luckily the judge denied the notion that doctors killed Katie and not Brian McCarthy.

They were like, yeah, that's not going to happen here so there was a and they that whole like you need to tell me if she's been having sex with anyone 48 hours prior.

That was allowed to happen back in these, like back then.

Like, very often it was allowed to happen is what I mean.

And obviously, no, that was not the case in this case.

Right. Now, there was a suppression hearing on March 24th, 1987.

This hearing was because McCarthy claimed he was forced into the confession. that he didn't fully understand his right to remain silent, and that officers denied him a phone call and clothing and food.

This is all bullshit, obviously, because he's been arrested a ton of times and he knew his fucking Miranda rights.

He's been read them about 30 times at this point.

He also is just a piece of shit. And his lawyer was like, okay, well, to get this confession suppressed...

I can just prove that on the day Katie was raped and murdered, Brian McCarthy was using a shit ton of drugs and alcohol. and wouldn't have had the wherewithal to waive his right to remain silent because he was so up that's what his defense attorney was going to go for what a defense so he got a ton of friends and witnesses from that day basically to put them on the stand and be like this guy's a loser of the highest order Like that was their defense.

Like, let's talk about what a fuck up he is.

Wild. He had his friend Joe Lopez on the stand, and he testified that he had spent most of the day with Brian that day.

And he said he saw Brian maybe have three beers all day.

Okay. So that's like nothing. And evening.

And he never saw him do drugs at all. Literally none.

Wow. And this guy was there for the bar incident where the guy claimed Brian stole three bucks and all that.

Still, he claimed, he's like, yeah, they got in a fight.

Like they were like arguing with each other and we got kicked out of the bar.

But he was like, he was not drunk. No. And then Robert Warren Jr., the hitchhiking guy, the guy who picked him up hitchhiking, took the stand and claimed he thought Brian was maybe highlander. but not drunk okay he was like he smelled like alcohol he was just a dirty fuck But he's like been in a bar.

Yeah. And he said like he he said he seemed spacey.

Like he seemed like he was just like not with me. he was very like he seemed wired yeah wired exactly and so but he was like I couldn't put my finger on it I wouldn't be able to tell you what it was.

So district attorney Charles Gardner thought a plea deal would be the right way to get the conviction that they needed with all of this.

He said the sentence was the same for any count he chose, any one of those that he gets.

He's going to get 25 to life. Right. And this would avoid the possibility of an acquittal because he was like, we don't want to even go there.

Terry and Katie's family, or yeah, Katie's family agreed as long as he would get that sentence.

They were like, that needs to be what it is.

Yeah. Now, while all this is going on, they're trying to get that confession suppressed.

They ended up not getting suppressed. Obviously, because none of that.

They were like, well, all of your witnesses just proved that he wasn't completely impaired.

Yeah, exactly. That you were like sound mind.

That really backfired on them. That's kind of funny. all this is going on in May, President Clark was asked to resign.

Bye. And did eventually. Like, all of the board was like, you gotta get out of here.

Because it was also that... student that got raped at the toga party there were allegations of like sexual misconduct with like other officials in Clarkson University against students.

Like... It was getting bad. Doesn't sound like it was like a great place back then.

No, this case was one big part of a few incidents, obviously, for Clarkson.

So he had no choice. He had to resign. Yeah.

Which is good. Now, meanwhile, the judge for the suppression trial obviously said all of that was bullshit.

He was well aware of his rights. He said he was going to keep that confession.

He was like, you know what it is to waive your right to remain silent.

Of course you do. And there was no evidence that he was forced into that confession.

So it, like I said, was admissible. This was a huge win because now the confession could be used and that meant he had admitted to knowingly and willfully killing Katie.

He only could claim insanity or plead guilty and ride it out.

Those are his only options at this point.

And he couldn't do the insanity offense.

It just wasn't going to happen for him. So now he just had to plead guilty.

So eight days later, Brian McCarthy made the decision to plead guilty of murder in the second degree.

And it would be a charge which said he committed murder during an attempted rape because he was still not going to admit that he raped Katie.

That pisses me off. He wouldn't have to admit anything really because he wasn't, again, admitting to the rape.

He was just saying it was not his intention to murder her.

That was what this was all gonna be. That's like really frustrating.

Truly the most frustrating. Now, he confessed for a second time for this, but it was bullshit.

He now claimed he came upon Katie. He thought about raping her, but then decided he was instead going to help her because she was bleeding and undressed.

So he's like, I came up to her. I was like, ooh, I think I'm gonna rape her.

And then I was like, no, I'm gonna help her.

Yeah, because that happens had like a devil and an angel sitting on my shoulder in the moment idiot.

He said, quote, so I tried to pick her up and put her over my shoulder and I couldn't stand up that well.

It seemed like she was fighting me. She didn't want any help.

So any person's natural reaction when someone rejects your help is to say, And that's what I said.

And I threw her. Yeah, that's a natural reaction.

That's not everyone's natural reaction, my dude.

Yeah, not at all. You are showing you right now.

Like, that is not anyone's natural reaction.

I see your true color shining through. And when they said, you threw her against the wall, he said, not with the intention of throwing her into the wall.

Wow. Either way, you're throwing a human.

And then he said he couldn't say whether her face or head hit the wall now.

I can tell you. Well, the medical examiner can say.

He can tell you. The issue with this, because he's doing this in front of a judge.

The judge has to sit there, listen to him say this, and has to say, okay, this guy understands what he's pleading to.

He's admitting to the thing that he is pleading. pleading guilty to.

Yeah, it has to be all that. He's not admitting it.

So he's standing in front of this judge being like, I don't know.

So that's the issue. He's not admitting anything, but he's pleading guilty.

And the judge would have to reject this plea.

Oh, shit. So it took several times. Like, the judge was literally like...

Dude, I'm not going to be able to accept this.

Like, you have to admit what you did. So it took several times and a recess.

And was the family there? I think they were there for part of this.

And it took also a recess. They took a recess because they were like, he's not admitting it.

And even his defense attorney was like, dude, you have to fucking say you did it or we're not going to get this plea deal.

Right. But he was like, I'm not doing it.

And it's like, well, then you're not pleading guilty, like you idiot.

So they took a recess. They finally got him to somewhat admit that he tried to rape and did murder Katie, but barely.

He's a dickhead. Now, luckily, it did work.

The judge accepted it, and sentencing was set for September 11, 1987.

So Fahy, the attorney that is the attorney Terry and the family was working with, he put in a petition with the judge to allow the families to speak during the sentencing.

Like victim impact statements. Victim impact statements.

It was rejected. The judge rejected that?

Yes. Why? So Faye, because I guess he rejected it initially on the grounds that he was like, I don't want any... outbursts in my courtroom.

I don't want any like this and that and all that.

And so Fahey tried again. He was like, they're not going to have outbursts.

They just want to say their feelings and like talk about Katie.

Because they lost their love. Because like they love her.

Why don't you put yourself in their shoes and see if you would like to say something.

So Fahey tried again. and wrote the actual statements down for the judge from the family, like they all wrote them down.

So he could see that it wasn't about them wanting to cause a huge scene and scream at the defendant in court.

They just want to be heard. Literally just wanted to make sure that the sentence was severe enough for the crime against their daughter and friend.

Yeah. And he, so this is what the judge, or excuse me, this is what Fahey said.

He said in considering the validity of this claim, I would point out to your honor that from the moment of apprehension at the scene, Mr. McCarthy had sufficient presence of mind to formulate a false and exculpatory version of his involvement in an effort to try to throw off suspicion from himself for the attack. he initially attempted to claim that he happened upon Katie being attacked and was himself a victim of an attack.

And he was sufficiently convincing so that the Potsdam police transported him to the Canton Potsdam Hospital. where he was found to be completely uninjured and released.

So he's like, he convinced the police that he was in fucking.

Right. He then modified this version during the early morning hours of August 29th to claim that Katie had already been beaten and stripped of her clothing at the time he encountered her physical injuries.

He has persisted in maintaining this obvious fiction throughout his plea of guilty on August 13, 1987, before Your Honor.

Katie will never know what it is to be middle-aged.

She will never experience the happiness of marriage.

She will never know the joy of having children.

She will never enjoy the pride and satisfaction of career achievement.

In short, One who has contributed nothing to this world callously and viciously took the life of one who contributed much and who isn't capable of doing so much more, which I was like, beautiful.

The end of that was like, Oh yeah. Oh, because that's the thing, like somebody who has contributed nothing to this world.

Right. Nothing. Well, and he's speaking for the family and it's like.

Let him say it. Why? I don't understand why you wouldn't.

Like, I understand that you need to maintain an orderly courtroom.

No, but that's why you have a gavel. Like, just bang it.

Yeah, that's why you're the man in charge.

Take charge. They were denied again. That's fucked up.

Even with that statement. That's really fucked up. the judge did talk about the impacts that Katie's rape and murder had on her entire family and how he had a history of violence and criminal behavior.

That's wonderful. But it should be from them.

That's the thing. It's like I didn't experience this.

It's cool that he brought that into it and was making sure that that was known.

Cause it's what her family wanted to be known, but like let their words speak for them.

Even can't you read their statements? Right.

Just read their statements. Let them write it down so that it's in their words.

That's all. Or just let them fucking talk.

But he then asked, he did say that they had, and he said the family has asked for the maximum sentence.

And according to A Stranger Killed Katie also, a priest in the community wrote in and requested leniency for him, and I was like, Excuse me, Father?

What? Like, know your place. Please. Step aside.

Stick to Sundays. Step aside, sir. I was like, that like really annoyed me when I read that.

I was like, yeah. Since when? No. Leniency on this guy?

Isn't this against everything? in the entire world doesn't it say thou shall not murder that's like come on that like really annoyed me no Yeah, like you don't have a say in this.

Piss me right off. Yeah. Now, the judge then read a letter that McCarthy wrote No, thank you.

Oh, okay. That makes sense. I won't read it because it's a crock of bullshit and nothing he says matters.

So, like, I don't give a shit. So, I'm sorry.

Did he read the family statements or no?

No, he just basically gave his own statements about... what the family had said.

Like, he basically reiterated what they wanted him to do.

So he gave this motherfucker a voice instead of the family?

Basically. Gotcha. He just in this letter, he just whines and bitched about his rights being violated and that he was the victim. here it's weird you violated somebody's rights to the point where you literally took them out of this world yeah Now, he also cited his religious beliefs and said that he would be forgiven by the Lord.

So that's all that mattered. No, I don't think the Lord forgives you for killing.

He also said that he would give his own life for Katie's resurrection, which I was like, So did anybody in that courtroom be like, do it?

Can we call your bluff on that right now?

Go. One, two, three, go. You said it, right?

Just saying. Now, of course, his attorney asked the court to be lenient as well.

He wanted McCarthy to, at the very least, be able to try for parole.

No. No. The judge finally spoke and said, Mr. McCarthy, whatever is imposed will not and cannot make whole the family and friends of Mrs. Hawelka. or Miss Hawaka, excuse me, that relief is beyond the scope of this life.

You will, for however long you do live, have the burden of this incident forever with you. as will, I'm sure, anyone who has ever associated with Miss Huelka.

It is the judgment of the court that you will be sentenced to an indeterminate sentence of imprisonment, which shall have a maximum term of the remaining period of your nationality.

And the court hereby imposes a minimum period of imprisonment of 23 years.

So basically, he took two years off the sentence Because it's 25 to life.

He made 23. Why? Because he said he had time served. and all that, this would also make him eligible for parole beginning 2009.

Right. So... He did not get a life sentence.

No. He got 23 years minimum, and then you get to have parole, maybe.

Give it a shot. So that was not the sentence he deserved.

Also, what a fucking precedent to send. I will give you time served and then I will give you the option of parole when you literally took a girl's life who was walking home.

One of the most brutal murders and rape that I have ever come across, and this guy didn't get automatically sentenced to life.

This whole thing is like, where the fuck were your heads?

This is where you're like, wow. He immediately began serving his time at Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora. and then was transferred to Attica in October of 1987.

As soon as he entered prison, he started receiving disciplinary actions.

He wouldn't listen to any orders. He became very violent with inmates and guards.

So then your chance for parole should be taken away.

Yeah. It was a constant with him as an inmate.

At one point guards found a shank under his mattress.

At one point, he was in trouble because he had repeatedly smashed another inmate's head into a wall.

Does that sound familiar? Sounds like he's getting better, guys.

In 1992, he was transferred back to Dannemora from Attica.

In 1996, because of disciplinary issues, he was transferred again to a maximum security prison in Auburn Correctional Facility.

In 2000, he was transferred again because of his behaviors to Wendy Correctional Facility.

In 2003, he was transferred to Cape Vincent correctional facility.

In 2005, he was moved to Orleans correctional facility.

And then in 2007, he was moved to Livingston Correctional Facility.

I didn't even know there was this many correctional facilities.

But by all means, let's definitely let him sit.

Let's waste everybody's fucking credit. precious time left on this earth to talk about maybe letting him out of prison when it seems like it's such a good idea.

Let's waste everybody's precious time. Oh, and he was transferred to Livingston, correctional facility with a note saying he was uncontrollable and should be separated from inmates.

But we're going to give him a chance to be out in the world.

In society. He can't be around other inmates.

Other inmates have to be scared of him, but he's supposed to be let loose on the world?

Possibly? Is that what I'm hearing here?

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So then he was transferred again to Mid-State Correctional Facility.

And that's where we get to 2009 and his first parole hearing.

I can't. I'm going to just keep saying the same thing over and over again.

This is a very frustrating thing, but this is why that petition is so important.

You guys have been awesome. You fucking bumped that petition up.

You guys. I seriously did. You fucking rock so hard.

Keep doing it. If you haven't signed it, like just as this, hopefully part two is giving you more. hearing this I would hope that you would feel so inclined please just take like a second to do Yeah, that motherfucker has to stay in prison and we need to help that family make sure he's safe. in this family shouldn't have to go every 24 months.

Do they go every single time? Yeah, they've gone like or they've participated every single time.

They shouldn't have to worry about this man walking the earth yeah that's so Katie His family immediately went into action in 2009, putting up that petition. writing letters, showing up to hearings.

Clarkson University, under new presidency, also wrote letters to the parole board urging them to keep him That's great.

That's good to hear. They wrote in the, I think it was in the 2009 one, they said, we submit that justice and the physical safety and emotional well-being of our campus community require that Mr. McCarthy be denied parole and that he serve the rest of his nationality. national life in prison.

That's what the university said. Now they said this became, like the family became their, mission, this entire thing.

Joe Jr. said this was his job now. He was like, this became my job.

He said, I'm gonna keep that animal behind bars.

I'm gonna maintain Katie's dignity, her legacy.

He said, quote, There wasn't much I could do for Katie the few days she did survive, but I can do this for her. which like oh that hurts it gave me like a lump in my throat yeah so each time they they do the most they can.

Every single time he's up for parole, they're like, you are staying behind bars.

According to an NNY 350 article, Joe Jr., Carrie, Terry, and Betsy give the parole board several statements of their own each time.

They always send in photos of Katie for those parole hearings.

And Carrie said, quote, we're told that they have to read everything that is given as part of victim statements.

So we give them everything. Amazing. Now, do you want to know what he said when they asked him in 2009 at his parole? hearing how he came across katie and what happened no do you want to know no In his 2009 parole hearing, he said, quote, she was on the campus on the Clarkson campus and she was going home.

And I was going across the campus to meet some friends.

You don't have friends. Since when? And it was, I was inebriated and I was involved in drugs and she was inebriated.

Oh, you know that? No, she wasn't. And she asked me if I wanted to participate in having sex.

And I tried. And I couldn't. And she got mad and spit in my face and it made me angry. all the way 23 years after this happened 23 years after this motherfucker went to jail and made up all kinds of shit, he is now...

He's still going to blame it on Katie. And he is still going to change his story completely.

This is him trying to get out, by the way.

This is him trying to get parole. He makes up a totally different story.

They were shocked. The parole board was like, what?

Like, he's never said this story. So they were like, what are you talking about?

And so they were like, did you know her like you didn't know her that was established in the first court like the whole the whole trial And he said, I met her a few times.

This is a lie. This is a full blown lie.

Of course it is. Everything he says is a lie.

Then he was like, I knew her from a bar.

I met her there. And then we went to a hockey game together.

What? What? How dare you? So then the parole board was like, you didn't accompany her to a hockey game or accompany her to a bar, did you?

Because they were like, you're a fucking liar.

And he, I guarantee it, no. He said, I did to the hockey game.

And they said, you had a date with her to a hockey game?

Because they're like, what? Where is this coming from?

Since when? And he said, well, not really a date.

We had seats together. And we went together and we saw the hockey game.

We were interested in the same teams. So they said, who acquired the seats?

How did the seats end up being next to each other, like if you didn't go together?

And he said, I knew people that worked at the college and they told me there were seats available so we could utilize them.

I'd be like, what was the team name? So they were like, so you say, how did she get into that seat?

You asked her to sit in that seat? And she said, yes.

And they said, so you did know her before.

And he said, through someone else, but not personally.

But it was only happenstance that we did have those seats together.

What? None of this happened. And then the parole board...

He was like, okay. So one of the guys on there was like, well, explain that to me because I don't understand.

Yeah. And he said the two tickets were, well, actually there were four tickets and two of the people didn't show up.

The way I love that even 23 years later, I can't do it still stick a to the same shit do it not sticking to the same shit but like the same theme of lying back on his bullshit Two of the tickets were given to me and I went to one of my friends that was on the college campus that was going to Clarkson. and he had asked me if I wanted to go to the game.

And I assumed that he was asking me to go.

He handed me both tickets. Then when he said, when he asked the friend, what do I do with this other ticket that you gave me?

He said the friend was like, you should take Katie.

So. You didn't know her though. What? This isn't a real, like the reality, like this isn't like insanity.

Like this isn't him. No. I think he's trying.

I was going to say. This is literally him just not knowing.

He can't lie. He doesn't even know what to say.

So he goes, so that's, I said, okay, fine.

And that's how I met her. And they were like, I thought you met her at a bar.

I thought you already knew her. Why would this person suggest going with this girl that you didn't know?

I would have tapped the gavel and said, no parole, bye.

And so they were like... Okay, so she wanted to just go to the game.

She didn't necessarily want to go to the game with you, right?

Like they were literally like, it sounds like she just went to the game.

And he goes, exactly. She was just interested in the hockey game and not interested in me.

I'd be like, why the fuck are we even talking about this event that clearly did not happen?

This was complete bullshit. She was a student also, so Katie literally... could just get tickets to a home game if you really wanted to go to one.

Like you could get free tickets. And Nancy, her roommate, said that McCarthy literally was never like he did not like we didn't know who he was.

I'd never met that. Because he wasn't a student here.

No. No. And he didn't know anybody on campus.

He's bullshitting this whole thing. He followed her onto this campus.

He had no connection to this campus. What?

All of her roommates were like, we went to hockey games before on campus, like all sports games.

Of course. He was never there. We don't know who he is.

We've never seen him on campus This is a bunch of bullshit He did not know Katie It's complete and utter bullshit.

And also it's like, okay. So you're telling me now that you knew her, you like kind of went somewhere with her, but this night you decided to like... kill her because she didn't want to have sex with you what how did that happen like that doesn't make any sense it's not the truth So it gets worse.

They asked him, and this is his first parole hearing, by the way.

How does it get worse? He's going right out the gate.

Thank goodness he is as shitty as he is.

And I love that at the end of it, they're like, yeah, let's do this again in two years.

This will be great. Let's try this again.

So they asked him more about the night of the crime.

And he denied the whole thing. He said he forgot everything.

Maybe he got hit by some unknown assailant in a black jacket.

He can't really remember anything. totally then when asked about the only thing he did remember from that night they were like what is one thing you remember from that night he said Striking Kathy Walker.

His parole was denied, by the way. Striking Kathy Walker.

Who's that? I... Who's that? I... Oh, it gets worse.

Wow. So Carrie said, her sister Carrie said, this was a random act.

My sister did not know Brian McCarthy. Of course not.

He was on parole when he brutally murdered her because he was.

I forgot that because this has been so insane.

Yes. So the parole board wrote that he demonstrated limited insight into the violent, heinous acts.

And no remorse was there. And any that was was superficial at best and geared towards ingratiating yourself with the panel.

All factors considered, the panel concludes that your release at this time is incompatible with the welfare and safety of the community.

Now in 2011, second parole hearing, he did the same story but this time he said the medical examiner was wrong and said no.

Her death was because of the way she hit the ground, Not because and he said if she was asphyxiated, it wasn't because I strangled her.

It was because I threw her against the wall and her neck snapped.

That broker hired one? Sure. He then referred several times to Kim Avadikian, which is one of the security guards.

But he was referring to him in like weird ways.

And they were like, do you know who that is?

Like, why are you saying that person's name?

And then they realized... That he was talking about Katie.

But he was calling her Kim Avedikian. What?

Because he didn't know her name. He just heard that name in the press somewhere and was like, oh, that must have been her name.

You've had 23 years to know her name or 25 now.

The first parole hearing, he claimed that they knew each other.

And that they agreed to have sex and that he couldn't do it.

And she spit in his face and he got mad and killed her.

And then at the end of that, he calls her Kathy Walker.

So in the beginning he's saying, I know her.

So then you've had two years to get it straight.

But her name is Kathy Walker. Two more years, he must have heard the name Kim Avadikian, and he was like, oh, that's her name.

Don't you have access to your own case files while in prison?

Like you can review them, right? He doesn't give a shit.

That's like a thing, right? Yeah, you get like, he's definitely has heard her name.

But he just didn't commit it to memory because he doesn't care.

Or do you think he's being an asshole and saying the wrong name on purpose?

I think he literally doesn't care and I think he's a fucking idiot is what I think that's unreal yeah That parole was denied.

Good. He's been denied ever since. And at one of the recent ones, his family wrote a letter, his own family... wrote a letter urging them to keep him behind bars and saying they have severed all ties with him.

And offering their condolences to Katie's family and saying like, we have nothing to do with him.

He should be in bars for life. That's nice of them.

Yeah. Now, when it came time for Clarkson University's civil lawsuit, by the way, they obviously offered to settle to try to make it go away.

Yeah, but Fahey told them the family would really only do that if they agreed to publicly apologize for blaming Katie for her own rape and murder.

Yep. If they actually promise to beef up security on campus.

Yep. if they acknowledged publicly that they were negligent as fuck, and if they gave an agreed upon financial settlement that was not released.

They agreed. Okay. They settled and actually apologized and publicly wrote something that said it was not Katie's fault.

But they stopped short of admitting their own wrongdoing and admitting that reps from the university had publicly painted the crime as being partially Katie's fault.

But whatever. Now, luckily, in the years that followed, Clarkson did beef up their security.

They added lighting. They added training. more security personnel.

So Katie's family did exactly what they wanted to do, which was incredible.

They caused that. Absolutely. Like, kids at Clarkson University are safe now because of Katie's family.

And because of Katie. Yeah. Like... And so Terry actually told one media outlet Clarkson will be a safer campus.

I hope we can keep one more family from going through what we've gone through. looking for from the university was to accept responsibility and to do more conscious raising so that this would not happen again.

What came out of this was awareness of crime on campus.

So they were looking for that. They were like, we just want it to be better.

Right. Now, Terry kept trying to change things, and she worked to fight for justice for victims.

She joined Victims of Crime Advocacy League of New York, which is called VOCAL.

And it's a group that centers on victims' rights.

It was started by a father of a young woman who was murdered in 1977 at another university.

And this group pushed for a notification system for victims' families. that would let them know the second their family member's killer was up for parole.

So like that would be so good to have. Yeah, definitely.

Terry also linked up with other parents of murdered students and murdered kids.

They work together to change the way victims and their families are treated throughout the judicial process.

And in 1989, she and other families lobbied lawmakers to make it so colleges had to release their crime stats to prospective students before they went in.

They absolutely should. Because they believed this was a safe campus.

Right. It was in a small place. a safe place.

They should have known that there was some stuff going on here.

Eventually, the Students' Right to Know and Campus Security Act was signed into law.

November 8th, 1990. It later became the Jean Cleary Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act.

It's also called the Cleary Act. Jean Cleary is one, is a victim of a crime on a campus.

So it'd be, it was after her. Of course.

Now after all of this, Katie's family said they came even closer together.

They were inseparable. They supported each other even more than they had before. always said I love you to each other when leaving.

They never took a second for granted with each other. they attribute that to Katie's spirit and her legacy.

And a lot of them had what they feel are spiritual experiences. surrounding katie i love it they said like her photo will fall off of things she's there Strange things like that will happen, especially with her photo, which I love.

Like, she's still around. Yeah, of course she is.

Because she's like, look at my family. Like, look at my family and what they've done.

And what they've accomplished. And what they're doing.

Yeah. Now, sadly, in 1994, Joe Sr., the father, was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

Oh, my. He did treatment. He did go into remission.

But then August 10, 2007, he did pass away at the age of 67.

Oh, I'm sorry. Now, Terry said, quote, I just want to keep Katie alive in everybody's hearts and I don't want her to be forgotten.

No. So that is what we are here to do today.

And I know this was long. Thank you for bearing with me, but it was all so important.

I was going to say, it doesn't matter how long.

And there was just, and there's so much more.

There's so much more. Read. I'm telling you.

Read A Stranger Killed Katie by William LaRue.

We're going to link it again. We'll link the petition.

We're going to link the family's Facebook page.

Definitely go check it out. Check out the Facebook page.

Sign that petition. I think we got it up to like past 13,000 and I think it was at like 8,000.

So let's like get that thing rolling. I will post it on the Morbid Twitter and Instagram, and we should also post it on our own socials. make it so that they don't have to do this every 24 months.

I want him, let's cut that. shit out nip that right in the no parole for this fucker he's got to be and that's it Like they should just spend the rest of their lives remembering Katie in whatever way they want to, not because like a parole.

They shouldn't have a ticking time clock.

Every 24 minutes or every 24 months it resets.

No. And that's all they're going to think about.

Let's get this fucking shit. Her life needs to be celebrated.

Yeah. So that is the story of Katie Hawelka's murder.

Wow. It's horrific. I had not heard enough about it.

So I was like, what the hell? But... Like it just shows you that like this family is amazing.

Katie was amazing. And Brian McCarthy is a piece of fucking garbage and should never be up for parole.

No. Come on. I mean, he's been violent in prison.

Right. He's been violent before that. What are you guys doing?

He's calling her different names even now.

He's a piece of shit. He has zero remorse He would do it again in a second.

No one wants to hear where he's spewing.

I believe fully he would do it again in a second if released.

He has. He did it in prison. He beat somebody in prison to lick their face.

Almost exactly the same way. Exactly. So thanks, guys, for hanging in there.

And... Yeah. We hope you sign that petition.

Yeah. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it.

Woo. Weird. But not to worry that you don't sign the petition.

Check out any social media page that is affiliated with us and you'll be able to find it.

I love you so much. Bye. Do it. Thank you.

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[The Brutal Murder of Katie Hawelka and the Pursuit of Justice]-[Episode 318: The Horrific Murder of Katy Hawelka Part 2]

📋 Summary

Introduction: The Tragic Case of Katie Hawelka

The Interrogation and Confession of Brian McCarthy

Institutional Negligence and the Family's Fight

The Legal Battle and Sentencing

A Legacy of Resilience

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript