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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. hello hello lots of stuff going on yeah it's been it's It's been like, I feel like everybody's having a shitty week or like a shitty few days.
I don't know what's going on. Yeah, I don't really know either.
I think something is up in Gatorade. I think we're entering like Sagittarius season.
Is that bad? I don't know. It feels bad.
I don't know. I'm not even gonna pretend like I know.
Yeah, don't. Saj is my rising sign, so I think I'm excited about it.
I thought it would be good for me. Maybe it is.
Maybe it will be good for you. Maybe we just had to get through like a dark period.
But I feel like I've seen like. everybody's kind of feeling this way or like a lot of people yeah and i yeah and there's like some just shit going on in the world like I'm sure everybody has read about what happened. this weekend it's so in waukesha wisconsin a red suv drove into a holiday celebration like what the fuck is wrong with a holiday parade So at least five people as of now were killed.
Multiple were injured. Reports are saying more than 40 people.
We're injured. That's so sad. Just several of these were children, by the way.
And just going to a holiday parade. Children at a fucking holiday parade.
Like, I'm just like, what? No, it's. Come on.
What is happening? Like everything. People just suck right now.
Yeah. Like it really does. Like I keep seeing like, you know, I'm seeing a lot of like on social media people being like, like other creators and stuff, I keep seeing people being like, why are people so mean all of a sudden?
Like what's going on? And then we've stumbled upon some like really nasty things that I was like, cool, wish I didn't see that.
So I'm like, what? What's going on? Can everybody just like let everybody else just like be happy?
Here's the thing, guys. Live. And let live.
Yeah. Like, come on. Just, if you live like that, it's just so peaceful.
Exactly. Just like, I'm not hot and bothered by anything.
Stop trying to hurt people. Stop trying to physically hurt people.
Stop trying to emotionally hurt people. Yeah.
Like, it's just not cool. So I just don't understand it.
But this whole thing is... I can't imagine the kind of evil son of a bitch you have to be to get into a red SUV and drive it through a holiday celebration where children are marching in a parade.
Luckily, this person is in custody. We don't have any information about them, but like... throw the actual book at them.
Well, and I saw too that they, like the police believe that they were coming from another like incident.
Yeah, and I didn't get to read anything about that, but it wouldn't surprise me if you're willing to do it once.
But I guess like a marching band was hit. a marching band in the parade and the grannies oh yeah oh yeah i'm getting to the grannies the There was little girls just marching in Santa hats with like pom poms.
They were hit. Apparently, according to the Associated Press, like Ash was saying, a group of older women called the Milwaukee Dancing Grannies was hit.
What could be more pure? Like, they had to... So they had to... And apparently the Milwaukee Dancing Grannies are like... beloved.
Of course they are. I love them. I love them and I don't even know them.
Me too. What are you doing? They had to cancel this parade last year.
It's an annual parade. And it's something like the 58th or something.
It's been around forever. Oh, wow. They had to cancel last year because of COVID, and they had themed this year's parade Comfort and Joy.
Oh, my God. And then this motherfucker decides to just take everybody's comfort and joy away.
Why can't anyone... let anyone just like exist happily.
Just let someone exist. Everybody's so angry.
I know everyone's angry with the pandemic and shit.
I know everybody was stuck inside. People lost their jobs.
It's been shitty. It sucks. Like no one's, you know, feeling great.
But I feel like these are the times where like you should band together and like take care of your like family. fellow Hume.
It just feels like there's a lot of like, I keep seeing like, you know, people like tweeting on Twitter. tweeting on Twitter I see people like tweeting like why you know like I've seen other creators be like wow I stumbled upon some really mean comments and like that was a bummer.
And I'm like, do you feel good? Did that make you feel good that you just like ruined someone's day?
Because if it did, you need to go like seek help.
Well, and if you're putting all of that into the universe, it all comes back. it's like just put good shit into the universe i'm telling you if you just like boost other people up that deserve to be boosted and if you don't like someone Walk on by, man.
Just don't look at their shit. Did we all not learn if you don't have anything nice to say? don't say anything is that not the cardinal rule of like being a child like let's all take that into our adulthood I think it's just like, I'm glad I'm teaching my girls to be kind.
Yeah. And just drilling that into their heads, like always be kind.
And if you don't like someone, that's fine.
Don't hang out with them, but don't be mean.
And if you see someone sitting by themselves, at least ask them if they want to hang out.
Maybe they want to be alone. But you got to ask.
I'm going to share this because it's a parenting win and Elena wouldn't share it for herself.
But the teacher. pulled Elena this outside the other day and told her that her two oldest girls if they see somebody who's not getting played with they go and play with them.
And, like, that's a win. That's a win right there. is that really was like John and I high five.
My job here is done. We were like, all right.
Because all you can do is try. Any parent listening to this or somebody who is raising a child, a guardian to a child...
Like, all you can do is try to teach them what you... You can just try and you just hope that it's sinking in.
You just... You throw them out into the world and you're like, I hope you're treating people nicely.
I hope you're listening to what I said. And like we read a lot of books about it, which I think is very helpful.
And I should share some of the books that we've read because a lot of people have asked and I've We have a ton of really good books that teach kindness.
I love Bedtime Stories. Yeah, because it's fun.
And I think it's an easier way, especially at their age.
They're five. I think it's an easier way of getting the message across.
Because it kind of puts it in situations that they've been in or will find themselves in.
They can understand the concept a little better.
But hearing that, I will say, was like a very, like, John and I high-fived.
And we're like, oh, yeah. That was huge.
They listened. They listened. But, like, just, you know, like, just be the person that sits with the kid that nobody's sitting with.
Yeah, just... be like that yeah and it's cool if you don't like something Just walk on by.
Cause like that can just be like, that can be like a metaphor.
Like I'm not even saying if somebody's sitting alone, go sit with them.
Like I'm saying that, but I'm also saying like.
If you feel like somebody's getting the shit under the stick, brighten their day a little bit.
It's also the fucking holidays. What is wrong with everybody?
What the hell is wrong with everybody? But you know what?
The moral of this story is lift other people up that you feel need to be lifted.
Yeah. And leave other people that you alone.
Just be nice. Yeah, just be kind. I'm telling you, it feels a lot better.
It does. Your gastrointestinal system will thank you because holding on to a lot of like hate and shit, that's bad for your gut.
I mean, mine has never thanked me and I tend to think that I'm like a kind person.
But it makes it much worse. Is that a probiotic you have over there for that?
Sure, a probiotic of kindness. Well, this is a probiotic of happiness because...
We had talked about Noah and Amber Claire in our last episode.
Yes. And it turns out that they were found on Thursday.
And what a weird little connection too. We'll get into it. it.
So there were surveillance photos taken of them walking together in San Clemente on November 11th and they were wearing a large large backpacks, Amber and Jake, and like dark clothing.
And it was clear that they had cut Noah's curls off.
Yes. It looked like Amber's hair was cut as well.
It did kind of look like her hair was cut.
I couldn't tell if maybe she had just had it in a hat or something.
Yeah. To me, it looked cut, at least. But on Thursday morning, a woman named Julie Bonin spotted the three of them walking near...
Doheny State Beach in Dana Point. She was driving her son to school, so she took a quick photo, got her son off to school, And called 911.
And this was all around like 840. Hell yeah, Julie Bonnen.
Like gets her kids to school and saves two children's lives.
She does it all. I hope she put her feet up that night.
I hope she did. I hope she lit a candle.
Yeah, took a bath. Yeah, she put on some podcast, I hope.
I hope she watched The Real Housewives and just zenned.
Heck yes, she deserves it. She did. And she said, quote, you just have to trust your instinct and your gut to do these things because I almost didn't act on it.
I was driving my son to middle school and I saw the three individuals that I'd seen on social media.
There was a blurry picture of them put out and it was pretty much the same image.
She was holding the little boy's hand and he had a shovel in the other hand.
And the dad was much taller, and it struck me that he had a hat, sunglasses, and camo pants.
It was strikingly similar to the image put out.
But I think that's so important, too, that she said, I almost didn't act.
Absolutely. Because how many times have you been in a situation where you've seen something and been like, maybe that's not what it is.
Exactly, because you're like, I don't want to call and I don't want to look stupid if I'm calling or I don't want to make a big fuss and like... get someone in trouble when they didn't do anything or like cause an uproar.
But it's like we always say, just overreact.
Yeah, exactly. You know? overreact like julie reacted perfect she did and noah and amanda were reunited his mama amanda And she said, Amanda was like, our bags were packed.
We were just waiting to hear what the next move was.
And they were reunited. She posted, quote, words cannot describe the feeling of him jumping into my arms and not wanting to let go.
I swear we sat and cried on the floor holding each other for 10 minutes.
Noah. Mommy loves you more than you will ever know.
It's me and you forever, baby. Or excuse me, it's you and me, baby, forever and ever.
Like I... And there's a video of him running to her.
Oh, it like literally like my voice is about to crack because I feel like I have this giant lump.
Yes. I cried watching it and my whole body was just like... It did that.
It did the... Because... When we were talking about that on the episode the other day, in my head, I was like, all I want for that, for Amanda... is to hug see her baby again that's all i want like i felt it so i i can't like we stopped recording i was thinking about it and i was like I swear, I just like, I'm trying so hard to just like put into the unit, like, please.
Let her hug. And I feel like we did really put that into the universe.
I hope we helped manifest it. the William Bonin episode and then a woman named Julie Bonin that's saw them like and tons of people were telling like tagging us and that being like, whoa.
Like, what'd you guys do? That is weird.
That is weird. There's been a couple of weird things.
I'm telling you, you put stuff into the universe, like sometimes it can manifest, you know?
The universe is a powerful bet. It was at least weird.
That was definitely a weird coincidence.
It was. And a very happy coincidence that it turned out that way.
Yeah, seriously. Yeah. I'm just so happy for Amber's family, for Noah's family.
Like, I'm so happy. Seriously. And Jake Clare is in custody.
Hell yeah, yes. Another important note to the story.
I'm sorry. Yeah, that is important. Kind of like the most important.
Yeah, like he's not just walking around.
Not just roaming the streets. No. But that's great and that's very happy.
That's a very happy thing that happened this week.
Yeah. I think we should all. I guess that this is a bit of a shit sandwich, because we talked about a sad thing in the beginning, And then a happy thing in the middle.
And then now we're going to get into the case, which is obviously very bummer-esque.
Yeah. So. here we are hungry sorry guys You know those photos sitting in your phone, the ones that make you smile every time you scroll past them?
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Yeah, I am going to do the case, you may have heard of it, of Tall Hot Blonde.
You know, when you said this case, I was like, why do I know that?
What? I was like, why should I know? I know this.
I think years ago you and I watched the Lifetime movie. directed by Courtney Cox.
Pretty sure we did. Or like produced by Courtney Cox.
Hell yeah, Courtney Cox. Huge, like love her.
Love her. Like Gil Weathers. Exactly. Thank you.
Thank you. But yes, this is also known as like the love triangle murder, the first catfish murder.
So let's get into it. Intriguing. Yeah, so we're going to bring it all the way back to May of two- May of two-
I was going to say 2005 and then that felt dumb.
You know what? 2005. Hey, it's the same.
2005 is right. It is. You're not wrong. I'm not wrong.
You're not wrong. No one's wrong. But we're going back to 2005 to New York State.
46-year-old Thomas Montgomery is doing what everybody in 2005 was doing.
He's hanging out in chat rooms on the internet.
I was just going to say, heck yes, he was.
Yeah, specifically on the site Pogo. I don't know if everybody was on that.
Pogo. You could play different games on there.
He liked to play poker and blackjack, but you could play.
It was like an online arcade, kind of. You know, I feel like when you said it, I was like, why is that ringing some kind of bell?
If you look at it, I think maybe you might have played a game or two on there before.
Or I might have just like known what it was because that does sound very familiar.
Yeah. It looked familiar to me. But yeah, you could play all kinds of games on there, and you could chat with people from all over the world while doing so.
Oh, and it's still there. Oh, yeah. Look at that.
So Thomas was having somewhat of a midlife crisis.
He had two kids that were in their teens, so obviously they needed him less and less.
He and his wife were having marital issues, so he was kind of using the internet as his escape.
And while he was on in one of these chat rooms, a message popped up from a user with the screen name.
Tall Hot Blonde. I love that. Which like screen names were the best.
I love screen names. If anybody messaged you from that screen name today. you would know that there's like a 99.999% chance that the person messaging you was not tall, hot, or blonde.
No, of course. You were never anything that was in your screen name.
Never. Like Summer Girl 8. Yeah, mine was literally Bennington baby.
Oh, my God. For Chester Bennington? Yes.
Because yes, I was obsessed with Chester Bennington.
Still am. My first one was Fallout Girl 1996.
That's the best. I love that you went like full like like emo with that one or like emo, you know, like pop punk.
Like, I think I, like, wanted, I was, like, trying it out.
You wanted to, like, you were, like, fall out, girl.
And then you were just, like, you were, like, you know what?
Summer girl it is. Full transformation. I'm blossoming into the flower I am.
That's what I found myself. See, and I was Bennington baby.
Like what? I also had Ashley XOXOXO8. Yes, you did.
You gotta have the X-Files. I had a lot of screen names, but none of them were tall, hot blonde.
No, there's that. I stayed true to Chester Bennington with mine.
You also had Roxy girl for a little bit.
Oh my god, yeah. Roxy doll. Roxy doll. That's what it was.
Remember Roxy? Yeah. Fuck. I thought I was cool.
I was cool. I was cool. I was like, I didn't think I was cool.
I was cool. I was cool. So Thomas was like, so excited because Tall Hot Blonde was like, hey there.
Yeah. But he was also apprehensive. Yeah.
So he started chatting with THB under his own screen name, Marine Sniper.
Wow. Yeah. And she told him that her name was Jessie.
She was from West Virginia and she was a senior in high school.
And Thomas was 46. You should end that conversation.
Right there. Oh, gotta go. Bye. And she said, hey, you're in the wrong.
Like, you're on the wrong chat room here.
Like, this one's for kids. And he was like, no.
Ew. I, uh, no. He was like, I'm not gonna be honest about my age here.
He was like, I'm gonna have a little bit of innocent fun here. in his mind not innocent i was gonna you're like i'm like not but not for me he told jesse that his name was tommy And that he was also 18 and he was going to be heading off to Iraq soon to fight in the war.
Wow. Yes. He even sent her a picture to prove who he was.
Little did she know, this was a picture from almost 30 years ago.
Yeah. The amount of times that this happened and still happened.
And still died. There's a whole fucking TV show.
But like the amount of times that this happened like in chat rooms. like when they first came out once one person figured out they could do that it was like everybody it's like it was like a pandemic yeah literally So yeah, she had no idea that she was talking to a married 46-year-old man with two teenage daughters.
A man who was a Sunday school teacher and who also sat on the swim board for his daughter's swim team.
Damn. Like just a regular day to day guy.
Yeah, just hanging. And people who knew Thomas in real life said they never would have expected him to do something like this.
All of his neighbors liked him. They said that he was one of the best neighbors in the neighborhood.
And like the only hint of a complaint that people said about him was that he was a little bit awkward.
Which it's like, you know, like everybody's saying, you know, I feel that.
Yeah. I'm like awkwardly like waving at people.
I feel like you never know people's online presence, you know, just like what they're into.
Like who they want to be online. Yeah, because like every once in a while you'll hear somebody be like, yeah, they were like totally –
Everything was just whatever and nothing was awry.
And then they looked through their history on the internet and they were like, oh.
Oh, that's what was going on. And you're like, ugh.
And that's the thing. In his day-to-day life, Thomas was just a regular guy.
And he actually had been in the Marines when he was younger. um it was something that he had wanted to do ever since he was a little kid he would like watch movies about it all the time and like he that was like his identity But those days were over now.
And by this point, like I said, it had been almost 30 years since he was a Marine.
And he at this point in his life was a recovering alcoholic.
And he was also working as a machinist at the Dynabraid Corp in Clarence, New York.
Oh, okay. So the job was something that he was good at, but it wasn't something that he really loved.
He said he stayed there because of the pay.
Which is, that's so many people's stories, you know, like that's what we've all done.
Everybody says that. And the thing about Thomas was that his daughters meant everything to him.
Like they were the reason why he got sober in the first place. and why he stayed at the job that he was at.
He was like, I could have done something else, but I was making good money and I needed to provide for my family.
Well, that's good. And I mentioned quickly before that he and his wife were having marital problems at this point.
One of their big problems was their sex life.
Thomas, as he put it, wasn't able to perform. okay so slowly and slowly that kind of just stopped even being a part of their marriage yeah So it's like, but you want to do this stuff online and stuff just like get divorced. exactly like why are you doing that to your wife you can do this as much as you want yeah you can go off like whenever people cheat i'm always like just get divorced that's the whole thing Especially when there's no like abuse or anything and it's just like just cheating to cheat.
It's like just. Break up. Well, and it's like he was cheating for excitement because his life was lacking excitement like he literally said that that's exactly it it's because i think that's the problem because you're like why did she just get divorced why did she just like break up that's not the But that's not the fun of it.
The fun of it is that they're doing something wrong.
Exactly. And if they were single, they're not doing, well, he would still be doing something wrong because she's too young.
Yeah. But like, you know, that like forbidden fruit kind of thing.
That's like the perfect way to describe this.
Like tall, hot blonde was his forbidden fruit.
And he knew it too. But he was like, I was depressed and my life was lacking something.
And I got that message from her and it was like. yeah a shitstorm it's like dude you're gonna hurt people yeah so they started sending photos back and forth and things just got flirty and flirtier and flirtier as the conversations went on.
Even like the first pictures that Jessie sent of herself were in a bathing suit. damn yeah so um she said she was a softball player so she also sent pictures over like that she played basketball.
So she was sending like all these pictures.
And very much like she was the same in every one.
So like it was definitely her. It was definitely her.
Or it was at least the same girl in all the photos.
Exactly. started to get spicier as time went on.
Like there was more revealing ones and you know, it was all kinds of crazy.
And Thomas had his own photos to send. He was sending his old military photos like continuously.
Because he was keeping up this facade that he was war bound.
Yeah, he's 18. He's in the military. He's 18 and he's headed to Iraq.
So he would tell Jesse all about these crazy things he was going through because he was telling her he was at like boot camp. and then he was saying like he was getting ready to go on secret missions he had like hinted at these like dark missions that he had been on that he couldn't tell her about and like maybe some of those things were true i was gonna say maybe he's drawing on some previous experience as Maybe, but 2020 was able to obtain documents that showed that he actually never even trained as a sniper.
And that was like his big thing. I mean, that's his screen name.
That's literally his screen name, and he would talk all about that.
And they also said that he had never even seen action during the time that he served.
I was going to say, I was like, maybe this is it.
But in my head, I'm like... To me, when that's the case, I feel like it's usually the other way.
None of that happened. I feel like when you've actually been through that stuff, you're not as willing to spin the narrative as hard as he is.
He was adding a little bit of spice. Add a little bit of spice.
That's what he was doing. He said that he was six feet tall.
He said he was totally built. And, you know, he like really wasn't.
One of the things that was not really what he was.
Jesse was like, do you have big shoulders?
Like, I love big shoulders. And he was like, my shoulders are fucking huge.
I'm a house. Like if you say to like a dude, do you have big shoulders?
I love big shoulders. Of course he's going to be like, yeah, my shoulders are huge.
You know what? That's the one small thing about me.
Yeah, exactly. Like what? He also introduced Jesse to like other people in his life, sort of. because he pretended to be his father.
Like he was pretending to be Tommy's father at one point.
Wow. It's crazy. And it was because he told Jesse that he was in boot camp and he was like training.
So Jesse would talk to his father and ask the father to relay messages to Tommy.
But the whole time she was really just talking to Thomas Montgomery.
Wow. Now the real Tom was getting nervous about the online affair, like Thomas Montgomery was getting nervous.
So that's when he introduced this other persona of Tommy's dad to see if he could break things off.
So he told Jesse, he was like, you need to stop talking to my son.
But then Tommy would get a chance to log on.
And Jesse would win him right back over.
So he would be like, I'm going to try and get away from this.
I'm going to pretend to be my dad and be like, stay away from my son.
But then he would go back online as Tommy and Jesse would say something and he'd be like, oh, like, I have to continue this.
Like, I'm. Oh, so he was like he was spinning his own like romance novel here.
Literally. Like he was literally creating drama here.
Yes. Scripting it. Wow. It was wild. So by that point, he and Jesse were sending gifts back and forth.
They had each other's addresses. Oh, wow.
They were talking on the phone while Tommy was off duty.
They were having phone sex and they were having virtual sex through the chat rooms. that they were in.
You know, just leave that to your imagination.
Yeah, you can figure that one out. Yeah.
And they had also even dropped the L word.
So they were in. Deep. Lerv. They were in Lerv.
And the real Thomas said that when things became sexual in the chat room, that's when he started to feel like very dirty about this whole thing.
But he said he was in it so deep that he couldn't stop himself.
But I'm like, Yeah, she's a high school senior.
Yeah, and you can't. Yeah, you absolutely can.
You have free will, sir. 100% stop yourself.
But he said that he was like so invested, he thought this whole thing was real.
And he said that the relationship had, quote, become more real to me than real life. and later it would become very clear that he was so wrapped up in this online affair that he was basically losing his grip on reality Oh yeah, it happens all the time.
Yeah, and this is wild, this next part. Because on January 27, excuse me, January 2nd of that year, he wrote himself a note and said, quote, On January 2, 2006, Thomas Montgomery, 46 years old, ceases to exist and is replaced by an 18-year-old battle-scarred Marine.
He has money in the bank, 2.5 million. He's handsome, like a redheaded Harrison Ford.
Then he went in to talk about his penis, and I'm not going to read about that.
And he said like how he'd be able to like really perform this time.
Yeah. And then he said, quote, he is moving to West Virginia to be with the love of his life.
All right. So like, I'm rather confused about how he was going to move to West Virginia and revert his age back 28 years but like maybe he had some kind of wild plan yeah who knows i mean maybe he's yeah Maybe he got in contact with Peter from Are You Afraid of the Snark this week.
Yeah, there you go. And was like, hey, can Can I borrow that machine?
Can I borrow that real quick? Dial it back.
Do you get some polyjuice potion? And he's just like...
Turn me into this 18-year-old stud muffin.
Like, honey, I shrunk the kids. Yeah. I don't know.
Let's do this. I don't know what the plan was.
All right. I mean, I don't think in these situations, it seems to me that...
People usually don't have a plan and they just kind of are like rolling off the seat of their pants and they're like, well, we'll figure it out as it goes. yeah but like just he was like good i'm not thomas montgomery anymore like i am tommy like It was a wild shift.
It's a big... Like this is like a big show of like sadness.
Absolutely. Like this is just like very...
It's sad. It is. All around. Like, this is just like, I'm sad for his family.
And I feel bad for the 18. year old that's sitting here thinking she's in love yeah exactly and like getting groomed like very much you know like that I'm sad for everybody like this is just sad.
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The sale ends 831. Don't miss it. Well, fortunately, Thomas's imaginary plan was foiled because he was discovered by one of his daughters.
Oh, which you feel absolutely terrible for the daughters.
Yeah, that bums me out. She had borrowed his computer to do something one day, and while she was logged on, an instant message came up from Tall Hot Blonde.
Like, I can't imagine how icky that must have felt.
I feel so bad for her. That's, wow, that's trauma.
Yeah, seriously. That's a trauma mama right there.
And immediately she went to her mom and literally Thomas's whole ass wife.
Like, and imagine like the guilt on her of like having to go tell her mom that.
Oh, that's because you're sitting there.
Oh. there's just like so many layers of that there is and then the poor wife sitting there having to hear from her daughter yeah who just found this, like the layers of that, because if like no matter what's going on, that's like kind of embarrassing in a way.
Oh, for sure. You'd feel like shameful and just like.
Yeah, because. I mean, we're like human beings.
Human beings feel shame for like weird shit.
Even when it's like, when it's not even weird, nothing to do with, it wasn't her fault.
Like, I remember like, just like putting this back.
I'm like, let me bring it back to me. No, but I just think of like the shame thing, like when I was going through like the bullying stuff in junior high.
Yeah, I was ashamed. I was actually embarrassed, but why was I embarrassed?
When I think about it now, I'm like... No, if anything, bullies should be embarrassed that they bullied you. you but it's like you do in those situations like people who are cheated on they feel embarrassed like they did something wrong absolutely And it's a weird human thing that we do.
It's just very strange. To have your daughter bring that to your attention, like you're supposed to shield her from all of this and you're like, oh, fuck, like what has happened here?
That's the other thing I was gonna say is like I'm sure when like something happens like you know you find out your husband's having an affair.
Right. That's something you would want to deal with between you and your husband and never let the kids know.
Exactly. Or deal or decide if they're going to know or when they're going to know. to know or how you are going to relate that you need to be like in control you don't want them to find out in such a traumatizing way and then become part of the whole thing without your...
You doing it. Exactly. That sucks. I feel so bad for the mom and the daughter.
I feel so bad for Cindy because it only gets worse at this point.
So her daughter brings this to her attention.
And then obviously she starts digging because she's like, what the fuck is going oh yeah once you right here once you get that little nugget you want to find everything out Oh, yeah.
And she already like could kind of tell that something was going on with the computer.
Like she'd be like, hey, get off the computer.
And he'd be like, oh, like I'm just like. finishing this game or she'd be like who are you talking to and he'd be like oh just some buddies oh yeah you always know it was in the back of her mind of course So she starts going through everything.
She finds love letters. She finds physical gifts that included lingerie. specifically a pair of red underwear that had been sent to her fucking house.
Um, she had seen like various chats between Thomas and Jesse and, she saw a chain that was engraved.
Like Jesse had sent Thomas a chain that said Tommy and Jesse forever.
Um, She found all of the provocative photos at that point.
And then she realized, Oh, my God, he's sending like so at this point, she just thinks like, oh, great, he's cheating on me.
Then she finds out that he's pretending to be an 18 year old because she's going through these messages and slowly it's becoming more clear.
And then she sees the pictures that he's sending and saying like, these are photos from right now.
And she knows like, yeah, no, they're not living with you.
Yeah, like so fucked. And it's like, were the daughters how old?
Do you know? I don't know their ages. Were they like teenagers?
It said they were teenagers. Teenagers. Okay.
That's what I thought. But now it's not even a case of like, great, my husband's cheating on me and I have to deal with that.
And not only that, but he's cheating on me with a with a. child with a teenager.
Yeah, like maybe somebody the same age as our daughters.
And then on top of that, it's not like, okay, we just are going to get divorced and work through this to get away from each other.
You have children who you are now bound for.
I can't imagine having children with someone.
And then finding out they cheat on you because that brings a whole other element into it that now you're bound for life. to that person.
You are never going to escape that person.
And it's like, that must be I can't imagine that feeling.
You must just feel so tricked. If anybody listening has gone through that, I am so sorry.
My heart is literally exploding in my chest for you because I can't, I think I just thought about that and I'm like, you must just feel duped.
Like you're like, imagine it. I stood in front of this man and we took vows together.
Like, we would never do this to each other.
Like, it's one thing for your, like, boyfriend to cheat on you or something like that.
Like, even that sucks really fucking bad.
That sucks. whole ass married and have whole ass children.
And you've been married at this point, like over 20 years.
And just knowing you're never going to escape that person.
No, and how do you ever look at them the same.
Like when your boyfriend cheats on you you can like bye see you later I never have to see you again or hear about you again.
Like as long as you don't have kids together. yeah but if you don't like your boyfriend who you don't have any children with but it's like once you have kids you know Yeah.
Which is why I think a lot of people choose to stick around and try to work through it because they're like, it's better than Stay together for the kids.
And what if there's custody things and, like, all that shit?
Oh, I just like this family. I feel so bad.
I know. It's horrible. I just want to wrap you up and hug you.
Well, and she's realizing that her husband is delusional.
He's living in a delusional fantasy world.
Yeah, that's a scary thing to find out. And he had been chatting with this girl for months at this point.
And then Cindy's like looking through all the timestamps of these messages and And she was able to see that a lot of the time spent talking to Jessie It would be like the whole night.
Like he would stay awake the whole night until like five or six in the morning.
While she's sleeping. And then he would leave for work at 7.
So he would stay up all night talking to this girl and then go to work.
Like, he was... Yeah. Like, addicted to this relationship.
Wow. So she did... collapsed for fucking Cindy because she pulled a bad bitch move here. she wrote a letter to Jesse to tell her who the fuck Thomas really was.
Oh, Cindy. So obviously she has her address because they've been sending things back and forth.
So she enclosed a picture of like a family picture of her, Thomas and their daughter. oh my god i'll put i can post the family picture but the daughters are blurred out good yeah to be brought into this And she said, she goes, quote, Jesse enclosed, you will find a picture of my family.
Let me introduce you to these people. The man in the center is Tom, my husband.
There is no Tommy. He's taking advantage of you.
You need to be much more cautious with your safety.
You will only be hurt by a man who has mastered the art of manipulation and lies.
Do not trust words on a computer. Cindy.
Snaps for Cindy, too. for not being like, you bitch, you know what I mean?
Like for being like, You're being lied to.
He's grooming you. He's taking advantage of you.
He is in the wrong here. Not you. you are a teenager and like be careful and to be like you need to be smart about your safety like Cindy like what a good ass person what the fuck if more people People were like, Cindy, the world would be a better place.
Seriously. And she's not blaming this girl at all.
Exactly. You need to be careful. I'm worried about you, too.
She's literally saying, you've been groomed and duped by this man who is my husband, who I'm horrified.
Yeah. Wow, Cindy. Like, hell yeah. Bad bitch.
Wow. I'm obsessed. That was like really impressive.
It was. It's very easy. Of course, we all like want to get mad at the other woman immediately. good for her but i mean she must have just put her mom pants on really quick and was like this could be one of my children and also it's like this isn't the other woman this is the other this is a child this is a teenager and my husband is like disgusting and Exactly.
It's like he's the disgusting monster. This is a teenager that's being groomed.
It's like, so I'm going to tell her you need to be safer.
Exactly. Wow. Yeah. Damn. It's Cindy. I'm obsessed.
So Cindy. Then Jesse gets this letter in the mail and she's like, Are you fucking kidding me?
I can't I feel so bad. I can't imagine how she felt.
She immediately... She has no idea. No, she had... Imagine getting that photo in the mail.
And, like, I'm, like... There's nothing wrong with balding, but she thinks that she's talking to an 18-year-old.
And then she gets a picture of a middle-aged balding with children.
She's looking for some flowing ginger locks that he promised her.
She thought that he was a red-headed Harrison... bored yeah is that what i said i think so whatever but either way yeah And she also is now learning that she's been, like, having this weird relationship with a guy who has a whole family.
Like, she's probably feeling really gross. like phone sex yeah she's probably like I did not intend to be it was an intimate Yeah.
A mistress here. That's not like that's so unfair.
Exactly. So she texted Thomas immediately.
She was like, I know everything. I hate you.
You should be in jail for what you've done.
This is fucked. Good for you, Jessie. Yes.
So she was heartbroken and probably just, I would assume, in a bit of disbelief over this whole thing. yeah so to be sure that like this because you know you're like wait a second like is this true like what the fuck or like did this is the woman mad like did she make this up did she find a fake photo like I don't know yeah so she messaged a co-worker of tommy's that she knew now his name was brian barrett Brian worked at the DynaBraid Corp with Tommy as a part-time machinist.
He was the oldest in his family. He was 22 years old and he was going to school to become a teacher.
Basically anybody who knew Brian liked him.
He had worked the whole summer that year coaching Little League.
When he was finished with that, he helped his dad coach soccer on the weekends.
He had also just bought himself a new pickup truck.
He's a really stand up guy. Good for you, Brian.
And he was like really proud of himself for buying the truck.
It meant a lot to him. He should be. And absolutely.
Good job, Brian. So he had met Jesse online. through Thomas on the gaming websites like they would be in the same chat rooms like playing games together and stuff and And Thomas was kind of his friend from work, but like I said, like Brian was 22. and Thomas was 46.
So it was kind of like one of those friendships.
Yeah, that you're just like, oh, this guy from work.
Yeah, exactly. But Brian had been to dinner at Thomas's house before.
So like they were like a little bit more than acquaintances, I would say.
Um, so it was news to him though, that Thomas was dating an 18 year old girl on the internet. and a shock when he found out that Thomas was pretending to be an 18 year old.
So he's like, uh, So he was like, yeah, Thomas is really a middle aged man with a family.
Let me try to make you feel better about this. this whole situation.
So he kind of stepped in like Casanova the whole thing and was like, I'm so sorry that you're going through this.
Like, let's talk about it. Like, I'll be your friend.
Yeah. Like this sucks. So through talking to one another, they kind of realized that, I mean, they're closer to the same age.
Yeah. fact 22 Jesse is in fact 18 and they realized like maybe we were the ones who should have been together in the first place like We have a lot in common, blah, blah, blah.
So soon enough, their messages turned flirty.
And Jesse was messaging Thomas that she had moved on to somebody bigger and better than him.
I also am like, Jessie, though, like, you should take Cindy's advice.
And don't trust words on a computer. Yeah, like, please.
Like, you're adorable. Find somebody in West Virginia.
I'm very worried for you. IRL. Yeah. But apparently Brian was talking about his new relationship with Jesse at work. and telling everybody what Thomas had done, which all of us would be doing that, right?
I'd be like, this guy over here. Yeah, I'd be like, be careful of this guy.
Yeah, exactly. So Thomas was obviously catching wind of this, and he was. pissed and getting like a lot of shit at work.
And then the shitstorm didn't stop when he was at home because He was able to see that Brian and Jesse were like going into other chat rooms and telling everybody on Pogo what had happened and being like, this guy's a fucking superstar.
This is so 2005. And they were basically being like, he's a pedophile.
Yeah. Which like... technically he's not because she was 18 but like he's really but it's still really gross like he's a super very inappropriate like Totally wrong.
But because of all the drama and the fact that Thomas had lied about who he really was online, his account got suspended.
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So I guess he was still able to message Jessie like on a separate platform.
Okay. And he asked her, he was like, why are you doing this to me?
Like, I'm sorry. i will leave you alone like just like please stop doing this to me Yeah.
And the thing was that Jesse was playing both sides because on one hand, she would be in these chat rooms doing her best to out Thomas for like the creep that he was.
But then on the other hand, she was still messaging him that she missed him and wanted to be with him.
Now, for example, this exchange, Tall Hot Blonde messages Marine Sniper and says, I ache to be with Tommy.
Do you miss it, Tom? And he says, which, like, Wow.
And she says, I know, Tom. And this is just like, I hate everything about this.
I hate everything about it. There was also another exchange where the two of them kind of like tried to put the whole thing behind them and move on as friends.
Jesse told Thomas that Tommy should live on in his heart because he would always be a part of her heart.
Okay. Yeah. And then they reintroduce themselves to one another with Thomas saying, hi, I'm Tom.
I'm 47 because he had just had a birthday.
Okay. And I'm a former Marine. And then Jesse says, hi, I'm Jesse.
I'm 18 years old and I just graduated. Like in all capital letters.
All right. So like we're going to be friends now.
There you go. Yay. Okay. But then all of the sudden one day, Jessie decided that she wanted to accept Thomas for who he really was.
She told him that she missed him and she wanted to be with him again.
So Thomas was like over the moon because he's all kinds of fucked up.
He's still married at this point. Yeah, still married.
And like Cindy is like trying to like make it work.
Like make it work. Wow. Like amazing woman. yeah for real and but he knows what he's doing is wrong he's married like we just said and again He's 47 and this girl is 18.
Yeah, nothing about this situation has changed.
Literally, no, he's not lying. Exactly. So they started their relationship back up again.
Yeah. And they went right back to their old ways.
Like Cindy would beg him to get off of the computer and he'd say when I'm done.
And he said it was like a drug. I was addicted to it.
I couldn't just... Just end it. No, you could.
Like, no, that's actually exactly what you were supposed to do.
100% could. So Jesse and Tom said that this time they're like their relationship was different the second time around.
But their computer histories both tell the same tale.
It was just as, if not more sexual than it had been the first time around.
There's a documentary actually that I watched.
I'm going to plug it in the show notes. You can see a bunch of their exchanges with one another.
The explicit ones are just, like, truly bizarre.
Very uncomfortable. I'm not reading them here, but if you want to go find that, you can.
And they just like dove right back into everything.
Woof. Until one day. Yeah, I knew something was coming.
Jesse said, I made a mistake. Uh-oh. And she said, I changed my mind about this whole thing.
I really want to be with Brian. He's younger.
We have more in common. And I only realized it when I let him go.
What I'm doing here is wrong. I have to go back and be with Brian.
So she's playing both of them like a fucking fiddle.
Everybody, I think it's time to sign off.
Throw up your away message and put up an emo lyric and just stay away from the computer for a little while, everybody.
Go do things IRL. Yeah. BRB, AFK. What's AFK?
Away from keyboard. Oh. I never said that.
Obviously. BRB like really summed it up for us.
You would say BRB AFK. away from keyboard like can't type back sorry that's hilarious yeah we would just say brb Or BBL, which now means something completely different.
BRBAFK was like the... like when you burbask yeah burbask so yeah jesse broke things off for the second time and thomas was not sad He was pissed.
Enraged. Yeah. And most of his anchor was directed at the person he saw at work every day.
Brian Barrett. So Brian was talking with his friends at work one day about how he and Jesse were making plans to meet up soon.
IRL. Oh no. So Thomas kept listening in on Brian's work conversations like trying to hear all the details.
So he was under the impression that Brian only wanted to meet Jessie so that he could have sex with her.
And that was something that made him angrier, but... because in her early conversations with Tommy, Jessie had said that she was a virgin, so they were making a very big deal about the fact that Tommy was the one who wanted to take her virginity. which is just a really whole weird thing in and of itself.
Yeah. I have all kinds of thoughts on that.
Yeah. But now Thomas, the way that he was looking at it is like, I've been talking to this girl.
I'm in love with her. And then Brian steps in. ruins everything and he's going to take her virginity like he's pissed.
So Jesus Christ. It's such a weird concept to me.
Yeah. We're all just pure until we get fooked.
It's stupid. No one's taken anything. Yeah, like I'm still the same person I was.
But anyways, he would get home from work and he would sign in and start harassing Jessie.
He would call her, I hate saying this word, a whore.
He would say all kinds of terrible things to her.
Trigger warning for this. He said that the only time he ever wanted to see her again was if she was being gang raped.
And he used a terrible word, too, about the people who he wanted to gang rape her.
He used a slur, didn't he? A slur, yes. If you watch the documentary, just be warned that there are a couple of times where he types that slur and it's not like blocked out or anything so just know that going into it because I did not expect it and it was very jarring.
Because that was one thing that Ash mentioned to me, I think it's like a trigger warning.
She was like, by the way. just so you know like it really upset me yeah it was i i don't want to see that like wow because you're like reading the messages and then you're like oh god no it's just like ah And then there was this exchange.
Marine sniper says, talking about Brian.
I hate him with a passion, and for 10 cents, I would eliminate him. eliminate him.
For a dime? For a dime. And TallHotBlonde says, that's a little drastic, isn't it?
Marine Sniper, payback is a motherfucker, Jesse.
I am the ultimate weapon. I am a Marine.
And she goes, yeah, it's a lot. She goes, what are you going to do?
And he goes, let's just say your piece of shit boyfriend came within a pussy hair of dying. ew which like you're disgusting he's he's so gross Fuck.
And Jesse says, are you serious? And he says, yes.
And she says, when? And he goes, the day after you two assholes told me you were fucking with me.
Cause like they would like message him and be like, yeah, you're stupid.
And she was like, oh. And he said, had I pulled a little harder, he would be gone.
Brian will pay in blood. All right, Thomas.
Yeah. So whatever like. Settle down. Tiny little aoda of grip that he was holding on to. of reality was dwindling with every conversation that he had with Jesse.
It's like Elsa with a balloon. She let it go.
Yeah. For real. He just let it go. There it goes.
But Jessie was concerned for Brian and she was like, you need to be careful at work.
And she specifically told him that she wanted him to make sure that Thomas stayed away from his truck.
Like that was one thing that she had made like a big deal about saying.
Okay. And Brian was like, yeah, I'm worried too.
Like, do you think that I should tell like a boss at work that this is going on or like anybody?
Yeah. And he said in recent days, Thomas had tried to hit him with his car in the parking lot.
Yeah, you should tell someone. You should definitely tell somebody.
But unfortunately, Brian would not get the chance to report Thomas to anybody.
On Friday, September 15th at about 10 p.m., Brian was heading out of work and he was walking through the parking lot to his truck.
He was like one of the last people at work.
He got into the car and immediately, seemingly out of nowhere, He was shot three times.
Yeah. And he didn't have plans that weekend because Thomas Montgomery didn't know this.
But Jesse had messaged Brian earlier and canceled the plans to meet up that weekend. because this was the weekend that they were supposed to meet up no but then at the last second jesse didn't want to anymore Man.
Yeah. She said she wasn't ready to meet in person yet.
So nobody in Brian's close circle knew that he was heading out to West Virginia to meet this girl.
And they didn't think that he had They like just didn't know what was going on for him that weekend.
So he wasn't discovered until that Monday morning.
Yeah. Oh, poor Brian. People like started arriving at work and coming on to this scene.
Everybody was showing up. And he got, like, brought into this.
That's what sucks. And, yeah. Like, he was brought into this whole thing. exactly and he was brought in like being a really good guy being like what the fuck is this old man doing to you like you sweet young innocent girl But it's terrible.
So everybody's arriving at work. So that's when the police were called.
Everybody except Thomas Montgomery. Huh.
Yeah. Now when police arrived on scene, 22 year old Brian Barrett was dead.
One of the shots went through his neck. Yeah, he was slumped over in his own truck that he had bought and was so proud of himself just sitting in a pool of blood.
That's so sad. And so they found shell casings at the scene, a peach pit.
And they also noted that Brian's back rear tire had been slashed.
So whoever had done this to him had intended to and clearly they wanted to be sure that he had no way of i was just gonna say so he couldn't drive Yeah like in one of the documentaries that I watched one of them was like he was literally a sitting duck.
Yeah. like it's horrible way to describe it but it's true it's the truth so the police start asking Brian's co-workers like does he have enemies?
Like, why would this be happening? So all of them are like, yeah.
He has one in particular. There's been something going on between him and this guy Thomas Montgomery.
It's kind of like a love triangle. We don't know all the details, but it's about this girl named Jessie.
But at that point, Thomas Montgomery was nowhere to be found.
And so when they learned that the center of this love triangle was Jesse, they were really worried about her.
Because they were like, he's nowhere to be found.
Is he on his way to go do something to her?
Yeah. So the search for her actually started out in a pretty unconventional way.
They were trying to locate who she was and get a last name. and they were able to do so via MySpace.
MySpace. Yeah like one of the people who worked at like the front in the police station was like a younger person and they were on MySpace trying to like figure it out and that's how they found her.
Wow. This is the most 2005. I love it. Truly.
It was one of the first times that they had ever found somebody in that manner.
That's great. So then they were able to get an address and they made their way out to West Virginia.
Wow. Wow. Crazy. Via MySpace. That's the thing.
That's really wild. It is. So when they got to Jesse's home, an older woman answered the door and she said that her name was Mary Sheeler and that her daughter was Jesse.
So the police start explaining this whole situation that her daughter is involved in.
And they're like, a young man has just been killed.
And like, we're really concerned for your daughter.
Do you have any way of getting into contact with her?
And Mary said, no, I don't. And they were like, you don't have a way of contacting your daughter?
We're really worried for her safety. So they keep talking to her and they're just like getting this really weird vibe from her.
And then all of a sudden she starts crying.
Uh-oh. And she says, I need to admit something.
Oh, no. Her. Her daughter, Jessie, wasn't the one who sent the messages to either man.
Oh no. Or the pictures. Oh no. She had sent the gifts and talked on the phone with these men.
Mary Sheeler. She was the one behind all of these actions.
Oh, my God. She was. There was a Jesse. Her daughter, Jessie, she was using her daughter's photos to keep up the illusion that she was tall, hot, blonde.
And her daughter had no idea. Oh, my God.
Like, I literally want to throw up. Unreal. thinking of using your child that huh and she was sending like oh my god she was sending pictures of jesse and bathing suits, like pictures of her getting into her car.
Oh my God. Upskirt photos of her fucking daughter.
What a fucking monster. Like, the most disgusting thing I've heard in recent years.
Oh my god. Because I was saying earlier, we watched this documentary together when it came out, but it was like... years and years ago i don't remember i did not remember like i didn't either part of it that was the because i'm like i feel like there is a twist blonde I knew there was a twist, I just couldn't remember exactly what it was.
Oh my God, that's so much worse than I thought it was.
Yeah, I didn't remember either. And then I started diving into this and I was like, oh God, my brain actually like put that out of my head.
Oh my God. Yeah, using her daughter's photos.
So they were like... oh okay um can you fill out a police report for us And she did.
And she said that the real Thomas had called her And she believed it was right after he had killed Brian.
In the police report, she wrote that he called and said, your boyfriend was very easy to take care of and ended the call by saying, no 18 year old is going to best me.
Whoa. Yeah. That's terrifying. When they were finally able to track Thomas down he was arrested for first degree murder sure was but he told them that he had nothing to do with this He said the night that Brian was murdered, he was at home with his wife and daughters and that they would vouch for him. uh cindy was like you thought i was just gonna say i hope cindy was like uh no No, she was like, I will not vouch for you and neither will our children, you piece of shit.
That shows what an asshole he is. He's terrible.
He thinks after all he's put them through that they're going to fucking lie for your ass.
For your murdering ass. Yeah. No. And he kept trying on the phone with his daughters, calling them from his jail cell being like, they're gonna keep me for a long time.
I'm not gonna come home if you don't vouch for me.
Again, a monster. Literally. These two are fucking monsters.
It was horrible. And listening to the conversation, like his daughter's like crying. on the phone.
Oh, fuck these people. I felt so bad. And I felt so bad.
God, how are this many people using their children in these ways?
Seriously, what is wrong with you guys? Fuck around with your own lives.
Do whatever the fuck you want with your own lives.
But don't bring your kids into it. Why are you all bringing kids into it?
Like, fuck you. And like the way that Mary Sheeler brought her daughter into it is like...
Ugh. Well, that's, jeez. But I respect, I respect Cindy and his daughter so much because they would not go.
They were not willing to lie under oath.
Good for them, but I feel so bad for them having to go through this shit.
Oh yeah, Cindy filed for divorce while Thomas was in prison, luckily.
Good for you, girlfriend. And Thomas didn't find out that the Jessie he had been talking to was actually a middle-aged woman until he was brought into custody.
So that whole time he was like, oh, like I did this because like I want to win Jesse back.
Or my 18 year old girlfriend. and they were like oh yeah about that they brought out this picture of mary sheeler who is not does not 18 look like jesse um and they were like hey do you know this woman and he was like no and they were like oh yeah um That's Jesse.
And he was like, uh... What? And they said, quote, the blood drained from his head and he turned the colors of the walls, which was a pasty white. like what a what a perfect little like taste of your own medicine it's like yeah you're not the only person who lied about who you were on the internet this lady did too oh are you disappointed was it worth it you disappointed yeah how do you feel for you Big yikes.
So while he was being held in jail before the trial, he actually tried to kill himself.
He overdosed on sleeping pills that he had found in another inmate's cell, but that didn't work. and then he was placed on like a more intense watch so that that wouldn't happen and he slowly started to realize that the case against him like he was gonna have no way of getting Yeah, how are you getting out of it, man?
So he called his lawyer and he and his lawyer spoke and they came to the decision together that it would be A much better idea if he pled guilty to the charges because you're going to get a better deal because you are guilty, sir.
Yes, so he entered a guilty plea. But then at the last second, he fired his original lawyer... got another one, and tried to file a motion to revoke his guilty plea.
Right. Guy, you don't know when to quit.
The motion was denied. Yeah, I was gonna say.
The judge was like, you thought. That's a no.
He was like, I thought like he said he was like, I entered the the guilty plea when I like when I wanted to.
So why can't I get out of it if I want? And it's like, you don't understand this, do you?
Do you not know how things work? And also, not only did the prosecution have tens of thousands of instant messages between Thomas and Jesse, including the ones where he threatened to hurt brian yeah and he had also threatened to hurt jesse and her mother In these messages.
But they also found his DNA on that peach pit at the site.
There was a peach pit left at the site where Brian was killed.
Stop it. And Thomas Montgomery's DNA was found on the peach pit.
Oh my God, it's like Parks and Rec. Oh my God, it is.
The beach pit. Yes. Holy shit. But that's not it, guys.
That's not it. Because during the interviews with Thomas and Brian's coworkers, one of them said, that Thomas had said if he was ever going to commit a murder, which like weird conversation.
Yeah. He would use an M1A1 gun, which is like an old military rifle.
Okay. So during the investigation, into Thomas, they took a gun cabinet away from his home and they took it into their custody.
And the gun that Brian was shot with was never found. but the FBI was able to do their thing.
Then looking at old family photos, they realized the same gun cabinet that they had in their custody was in a picture like an old family photo and when they zoomed in that gun was inside of it So they were able to prove that he did have that gun at one point in time.
Most likely used it for the murder and ditched it. holy shit yes exactly real fbi shit that is some real that is real fbi shit And it was an old military rifle, 30 calibers to be exact.
Wow. Match the shell casings found on scene.
Like, damn. Wipe your hands off. That's your fucking case, buddy.
That's some FBI shit. Oh, hell yeah. So when it came time for his plea, Thomas explained to the judge that, yes, he did shoot Brian.
He said he shot Brian three times with a .30 caliber rifle.
We know. as he was getting into his truck.
And the judge said, did you mean to kill Brian?
And he said, no. But then his lawyer like elbowed him and then he said yes.
I love that his lawyer is like, come on.
You're literally entering a guilty plea.
You can't say no now. How do you not understand this?
Come on. You shot him three times in the neck.
And you didn't mean to? Like, you idiot.
Okay. Poor Brian. I know. So Brian's father, his family, I feel so horrible.
That's their oldest son. His father read a victim.
And he did nothing wrong. He was the only one telling the fucking truth in this situation.
The victim impact statement that his father read said, quote, my wife and I don't understand how this could happen to our family.
We don't understand how such evil could exist in the world.
To gun down a boy over simple jealousy does not make sense.
No. And then when it came time to Thomas' sentence, they said, quote, But to be honest with you, we were prepared to take the 20 if we had to, the 20 years. which obviously we did.
We were glad to see that the judge didn't prolong this any longer and give Montgomery more rights than my son ever got.
So Thomas was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
He's appealed his case saying that he was pressured into pleading guilty by his lawyer. but his appeals have been denied no see you later so like fuck right off And the prosecutors hoped that they would be able to charge Mary Sheeler with something in this because she's a disgusting piece of shit for what she did.
Yeah. And she's a key part of this whole case.
Brian would still be alive if she hadn't done what she did.
Absolutely. But technically by law, she didn't do anything illegal.
Yeah, catfishing is not like... Unfortunately.
And she was your own child. Your own child.
Damn, why is there not a law? Somewhere in here.
There has to be. But she tried to make herself out to be a hero.
And she said the reason why she talked to Thomas Montgomery for so long was because She didn't want him to go out in real life and talk to other teenagers.
No. I think we all know that that's a load of BS, Mary.
Not only did you use your daughter's photos without her permission, She also once used a camera to get a shot of her daughter's skirt and authorities were able to find that she had sent the picture to multiple men asking, quote, guys, do you like it?
No, she's literally disgusting. A disgusting monster.
And the thing is, it's like I can't believe what she did to her daughter.
And had it been one year earlier, she could have gone to prison for like child pornography.
Yeah. Against her own child. Wow. Yeah.
And Jessie, like the real Jessie, had no idea about what her mom was doing.
And she didn't find out until her friends started hearing about this case.
And brought it to her attention. So she ran into her father one night and she was like, do you know about this?
Like, what? And at that point, he didn't even know.
Oh. So he like found out with her. Oh my God.
These poor families. It's so horrible. And he said he was surprised, but it was also a running joke in Mary's family that she could get out of anything she wanted to if she just cried her way out. out of it he was like she's literally like been a liar her whole life Wow.
And it was just like she had never lied about anything this big.
So he filed for divorce and the real jesse cut off all contact with her mother good mary has never apologized to her daughter that's wild now the only time that mary has ever spoken about everything that happened is was when she told BBC, it was stupid.
It should have never happened. I just never thought it would go anywhere.
It didn't happen. far off and that would be the end of it.
No. First of all, it didn't happen. It didn't just happen.
I wish it didn't happen. No, you did it.
You created this situation. Don't be passive about it.
Don't say it happened to you. you chose to victimize your own child For some weird, sick thing that you were trying to do, don't pretend it happened to you.
You were an active part of it. It was stupid.
It never should have happened. Like the murder of a 22 year old man. boy who had his whole life ahead of him?
You want to be that passive and say it? Yeah, I'm sure his family thinks that, that it happened.
It just happens. And it shouldn't have ever gone that far.
No, that's somebody's child. That's people's friends.
That's people's... That's somebody's loved one.
Like, fuck you. She also wants to write a book about the dangers of the internet.
Like, honey, you're the dangers of the internet.
Dear publishers in the world, Don't do it.
I don't think they would. No one would, but I'm telling you, don't do it.
But Brian's parents have a petition in the hopes that some kind of law could be made so that anyone who did what Mary Shaler did could be held criminally responsible.
Yeah. Unfortunately, as of this date, no such law has been made, but they're trying.
Which is wild. And the... First Deputy District Attorney John J. DeFranks.
I just want to finish this with a quote that he made because...
It just really drives this whole case home.
He said, quote, the uniqueness of this case is that everybody appeared to be misleading everybody else. and the whole situation which resulted in a violent death was unnecessary.
Ironically, the only person telling the truth here was the victim.
Because I was going to say, Brian was not misleading anyone.
He was the only person who was doing... And he was doing like a nice thing.
Like he was trying to be like console this girl.
And it's like this, and these innocent people, like Brian's this innocent person that was brought into it. unwillingly and just tried to be a good guy yeah and like jesse The real Jessie.
Yeah, the real Jessie. She was unwillingly put into this.
Absolutely. Like, she's a victim in this.
Like I was searching the case while you were talking just to like see the pictures of people.
They're all over the place. Her picture comes up and it's like No.
I'm not going to be posting any pictures of Jessie to our Instagram page.
Her pictures shouldn't be part... And I know that it's like...
It's part of the case. It's part of the case.
But that's not fair. She didn't ask to be a part of this.
No, she didn't put those pictures out there.
And it's like her mother literally victimized her.
Like, that's fucked. It's so fucked. And actually, Mary's son...
At the end of the documentary that I watched which again, I'll link in the show notes He said that his mom like as of that point had been spending more time on the computer and he was like growing concerned.
So she could still be out there doing this shit.
She could still be doing it. And that's the thing.
I don't know what kind of law could possibly be made about this.
I know. That's why the internet is a scary thing, man.
I don't want my children on the internet ever.
No. Like I'm going to be like no internet.
I'm going to be like one of those crazy people that's like no internet. house no internet because it's like mom you're like you are the internet you are the internet mom But it's like there's no policing it.
No. And it really is a scary thing because...
People can say whatever they want. They can lie through their fucking teeth about anybody they want to and say it like it's fact.
I mean all of the, what was that show, How to Catch a Predator?
Yeah. Like that kind of shit was so scary to see.
And it's like, you really have to be like, parents do have to be more Like, I think we all have to learn a totally different parenting method now.
Because there's so much more scary stuff that can become involved here.
Absolutely. We all need to help each other.
I think everybody just needs to, like, help each other to... to protect your kids.
It's hard. But this case is so tragic. The fact that the one person like, involved in the three of them was telling the truth is the one that was murdered. so needlessly not that there's ever a need for murder but it's like and like he got 20 years for taking a 22 year old's life His parents literally said that.
Not enough. Like they literally said the sentencing was an insult.
It is. Which it absolutely is. 20 years?
That's not even the amount of time that Brian was alive on this earth.
Right. are you and like really are we what about when he gets out of prison and he tries like what if he logs on those sites again Exactly.
And pretends to be an 18 year old and does this to somebody else.
No, that's like really, damn. It's scary.
This was 2005? Mm-hmm. And it's like Catfish the movie came out in 2010.
I know because I looked that up for this.
And it's a very similar. I know. Because that mom was using her daughter's photos.
Well, and it wasn't even her... Well, she was using her, like... younger daughter as like a pawn, but she was using some stranger's photos.
Oh, yeah. It was this like girl who was like an artist and like, you know, a musician or something.
Yeah. And saying it was her daughter. Yeah, that whole like that whole thing was crazy because honestly, catfish to me, I remember watching it. that movie when it came out.
It's so scary. When we lived in the apartment and like with a bunch of our friends and we all sat down to watch it and we were at the end of it I remember we were all just like What the fuck did I just watch?
Well, because also towards the end of it, you're like, are they going to get me?
Oh, I thought they were literally going to get murdered.
And honestly, it was as scary the way that whole thing ended. entire thing and this gave me so many of those vibes but it was like before it which is even scarier and it was like worse yeah because somebody died like this ended in death yeah The internet is a scary place.
This is a cautionary tale, my dears. Very big cautionary tale.
Remember... You don't know who is on the other side of that screen.
You don't know. It may feel like you know, but you don't know.
I'm gonna, when my kids, like, if I do allow them to have the internet, I'm gonna sit down and play them this episode.
Yeah, for real. Like, just so you know. Just so you're aware.
Yeah. Just want to put that out there. Be careful.
We're going to sit down and watch Catfish.
Yeah, we are. because that'll show you oh so yeah guys man that was a crazy tale and i feel so hard for all these families involved.
I feel so horrible for Brian's parents and his brothers.
Yeah, I want Brian. And I feel so bad for Thomas's daughters and Cindy.
I hope Cindy and her daughters are thriving.
Yeah, I hope they're just like, Like, I hope you are killing it.
Seriously. Because you already were. And I hope Jesse's killing it.
The real Jesse. I hope Jesse's killing it.
Yeah. Get it, girl. Live your life. You're doing great.
Live your best life. Man. All of you, live your best life.
Yeah. And we hope that you keep listening.
We hope you. Keep it. weird but i'm sorry that you log on to an online chat room and you're like oh my god i think i'll pretend to be my daughter today that won't be weird or terrible in any way at all yeah that sounds like a good plan and then this happens like don't be that weird don't Thank you.
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