Episode 259: The Hillside Stranglers Part 3 | Morbid

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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.

She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.

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We'll see you next time. available on qualifying orders retail sales only some exclusions apply see store for details Hey weirdos, I'm Ash.

And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid. And Elena started over the morbid recording because I tried to say, hi, weirdos.

I'm Ash. And she was like, no. I was like, no, you can't do that.

And I was like, you can't vocal fry right off the bat.

You know, who says? Me. Who says? And I'm in charge of the recording button.

Yeah, unfortunately. honestly probably fortunately for everyone else involved i feel like it's going well so far yeah But yeah, hi, weirdos.

We're punchy. We are. We're punchy. We're here for part three of the Hillside Stranglers.

Yeah. This is a lot. I have way too much information, one might say, about these people.

I have read two and a half books about these people.

I never get to read like a full book for leisure, but I could not stop with this.

So I was like, I need to know more. Someone else give me another version of these events.

Like, come on, tell me all the things. Because every time you read another book, you get like one little detail that you're like...

Oh, what's that about? That wasn't in the other book.

Go search it. It's so much fun. I love it so much.

Reading. Reading, you know? It's just fun.

But yeah, so I think we're going to be wrapping.

This whole thing up. And a nice, neat little bow.

Might. Who knows? We're not there yet. Might have a little offshoot of an episode.

That might come after this. I don't know.

Who knows? We'll see. We're all here. We're all here experimenting together.

Yeah. We're going to figure it out. But yeah, we are in part three and I don't think like there's really any business to take care of right now because no one's really going anywhere.

Yeah. I think we should just get into it because I'm like... It's going to be a long one.

I'm not like... excited that's the wrong word to use but like i'm intrigued yeah you're intrigued because there's a lot there's a lot that happens here yeah So, yeah, we'll just get into it because this is going to be long and I don't want you all to be like, wow, this is a six hour episode. yeah no thanks and like 10 hours of it is just you guys talking so here we are So I think when we last left you in part two, excuse me, we were talking, I'm like, where are we?

We were talking about the murder of Lauren Wagner.

Yes. Lauren was the one that was literally followed to her home and then abducted at 9pm right outside of her home.

Yeah, that one was really something. And then I felt so bad for the older woman who lived across the street.

Yes. I was very sad. Either Bella or Beulah.

I think it might be Beulah. Stouffer was the name of the neighbor that lived across the street.

She was in her late 50s, early 60s. She was very upset when Detective Grogan went to talk to her about it because she had seen the whole thing. but she was terrified because of her own experiences.

She had a full PTSD episode and was just paralyzed in fear.

And I think that definitely she comes back a little bit.

Okay. But Lauren Wagner also was the one that happened to have burn marks. on her hands and it was because they were experimenting with electrocuting their victims basically.

I just like... Very crudely. What? Yeah.

And it was just like an idea that popped into Angelo's head just like in the moment.

They just like, they were like, you know what?

We've gotten away with a lot. They did, you know, I mean...

They literally gassed a victim. That one was very, very racist.

Christina Weckler was literally gassed to death.

And not even to death, because they ended up having to do more after that, but she was gassed after she was injected with cleaning fluid.

Like Windex. So they were just trying things at this point.

Yeah. And with Lauren Wagner, they had stripped off the rubber part of an electrical cord and taped it to the palms of her hands and then they plugged in the other side and they did it like over and over just to see if it would work.

Yeah, because didn't Kenneth, or excuse me, Kenny later say that it was like a very long ordeal?

Yeah, he said this one. I mean, I think the Christina Weckler one was the one that he was like, that was over an hour that we had her sitting with the gas stove. on which is wild to me i can't but yeah they're just they're torturing women now right like they're Not that they haven't really been before, but now they're doing it in different ways. now because they've been switching things up a little bit and they're trying to like, and they're also doing this to like throw off the investigators.

They're playing it. game here. Oh yeah.

They're trying to see if they kind of throw off their MO a little bit, that maybe they won't tie them to them. or it'll just mess up the investigation in some way.

What they don't realize is that they are leaving a calling card. at every single one.

It's that five point restraint that they're seeing in every single person the handcuffs on the wrists, their ankles are always bound, and there's always ligature around the neck.

And it's interesting that they, it's like in a weird, crazy way, they did think of a lot of other things.

But it's like that one thing. And thank God they didn't think of it.

And I guess, who knows, maybe they did and they just didn't care.

Yeah, right. Because I think they think they're... I mean, they always do.

Invincible. They think they're more clever than the... police, they think that they're going to be able to throw them off just by switching up a little bit.

Right, and it's like, no. It's like, no, that's not how it works.

But now Kenny and Angelo are looking for... different ways to go about this because it's as they put later they were just kind of like you know same old same old according to them, which is horrific.

So again, they know they want to kind of like fuck with the investigation.

So now they're thinking of ways instead of moving the MO around, they're going to move the location around.

Okay. Because the focus, you know, the focus of the investigation has been around mainly Angelo's home and places around. his home because they're kind of places that they know in Glendale and in that area.

So they want to move the investigation to another place so that they're like, wait, is it them or is this a copycat or...

He's just going to throw a wrench in there.

So their new plan is they're going to lure a sex worker from an agency this time.

Not from like going on the street and picking someone up.

And they had tried that once before, hadn't they? they had tried it before and they they'd had success with these things before yeah but this time they're gonna get a sex worker from an agency They're going to lure her to a totally different place that is not Angelo's.

Okay. And then they're going to act like it was a sting operation, use the badges and then handcuff her and then bring her back to Angelo's.

Okay. So they're hoping that this will be traced back to like whatever call they make is going to be traced back to a place that has nothing to do with them.

So it's just going to leave them on a wild goose chase.

It really is fucked that they thought of so many things.

It really is. So they just had to find the place.

So they're like, where should we do this?

Well, Kenny notices that there's an apartment on the ground floor of the building he's living in.

These are like the Tamarind Apartments, I think it's called.

And this apartment is now for rent, but it's completely empty.

Mm-hmm. And again, on the ground floor, he's on the third floor.

So he acts like he's interested in possibly renting it out. or for showing or like telling one of his friends about it.

So he gets somebody to, you know, bring him into the apartment to look at it.

As he's leaving, he leaves the sliding glass door slightly open.

Oh. Yeah, and unlocked. So December 13th, Kenny called Climax Outcall Services, which is the agency that he found in the paper.

He made the call from the Hollywood Public Library.

Okay. like a phone booth right outside there.

He said his name was Mike Ryan, which is similar to the name of the officer who handled his failed LAPD application.

The officer's name was Officer Mike Rine.

Oh, wow. And he said people all the time.

It's spelled R-H-I-N-E. He said people always think it's Ryan.

And I wonder if he said he thought so too.

Probably in 100% all the they all believe this was 100% a little like Like, fuck you.

And so he said when he called, hi, this is, my name is Mike Ryan.

I would like a blonde wearing black underwear to go to the tamarind apartments.

So the way that they did it was this guy leaves a phone number, is apparently how this worked, and then they find a girl.

The girl calls him and they arrange the whole thing.

Okay. So he gives the phone number. Girl calls back and it's to the payphone and she says, I'll be there in a half an hour and her name is Donna.

She was, now I've seen her as either 17 or 22. and i see it equally in every source so i and i cannot find unfortunately i cannot find tons of information about her it sucks but it's so long ago and I think because she was, you know, unfortunately, probably living outside of like where her family was and stuff.

I don't know. if like a ton of people came forward to say a lot about her in life. which is sad.

Really sad. Because I like dug. I was trying to find anything I could for her.

And girl, you read two and a half books.

Yeah, I tried. I tried looking for us. But she was either 17 years old or 22.

Her name was Kimberly Diane Martin. and she went by Donna, especially during these calls.

She had actually joined the Climax Agency recently because she was so scared of the hillside stranglers. and she felt like it wasn't safe to do sex work on the street anymore, she thought the agency would be her safety net.

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So when she arrived, Kenny spoke to her for a minute, but then and they're like in the apartment and I guess he lit a candle.

And the apartment was furnished at this point because I think they were showing it and they had furnished it.

I'm happy that you said that because I was like, she just walks into like this empty house. apartment well this is even because like the electricity wasn't on yeah so he just lit a couple of candles and she walked in and was like okay And so we kind of talk to her for a minute and then Angelo jumps out of nowhere.

And out of the dark with his badge. And then Kenny pulls out his and they're like, it's a bust.

So she's like, what the fuck? So this is when things, though, went really wrong for them.

Now remember, this is Kenny's idea, this whole like, let's do it at a different place.

And there's this apartment downstairs and this will be so much fun.

Let's make it fun. Well, Kenny doesn't do anything easy or smooth.

And so they handcuffed her and they're trying to drag her out into the hallway to take her outside.

What? Because they're hoping that she will believe this ruse of... you know, we're cops, you're a sex worker, we're busting you, we're bringing you in.

And then she's just going to walk with them quietly and people are going to think, They're just arresting somebody off the street.

But at this point, people know that the Hillside Stranglers do that.

Well, people... That wasn't, like... They don't know the total details of this.

It was released that they believed they may be. acting like police officers but it was by no means like they will handcuff you and pretend to take it wasn't like for sure none of that was let out So people don't know this.

They would just think they were police officers.

That's how they were able to continue this for so long.

So they handcuffed her, they drag her out into the hallway, but she fell because she was fighting.

And so she's falling, her purse is like spewing out everywhere, the contents is going all over the hallway.

And she's screaming for someone to help her, literally being like, help me, help me, help me.

And she's in an apartment complex. She's just not feeling this.

So they try to they throw her back into the apartment.

Because they're like, shit. Which cops wouldn't do.

Exactly. And she fell and slammed her head on the floor.

So now she's bleeding. and handcuffed, she crawled into the hallway halfway out before they could get to her. trying to grab the contents of her purse that is all over the hallway And once again, they have to struggle to get her in and then slam the door shut.

Oh, that's so terrifying because it's like she's almost away for a minute.

Yes. neighbors all came out of their apartment buildings and are like, what the fuck is going on? like they were like what the hell is that and they're all talking to each other out there they're all like someone call the police what is going on what just whose purse is this like what's going Yeah, like who's just screaming.

While this is going on, they are right on the other side of the door with their hand over her mouth.

In there telling her not to speak, Angelo took his keys and dug them into her back and told her it was a knife.

And if she screamed, he would just stab her.

Oh my god. So she stayed quiet and they waited and she just had to sit there and listen to these people be like, what's going on?

Does somebody need help? What's happening? happening.

Oh, She just had to sit there and listen to them.

That's heartbreaking. And finally things got quiet.

Somebody was like, I don't know what's going on.

This apartment building later, when they talk to a lot of people, they're like, yeah, like people are assholes like we hear a lot of domestic disturbances and like people kind of ignore it.

This one just happened to be like really crazy.

Yeah, I've heard things in my apartment building before that I'm like, it's like really unfortunate and you like tuck your head out and you're like yeah and this was also in the 70s so it's like Like, don't ask.

Like, just go back in your apartment. Like, not my business.

Yeah, exactly. So... everybody went back in their apartment and as soon as it was quiet They took her out to the car and they took her out the back way this time, which I'm like, why didn't you do that?

I mean, I'm glad you're stupid, but yeah, right.

She was apologizing at this point and telling them that she was like, I'm sorry I yelled.

I won't yell again. And then she told them, I have a child at home.

Please don't kill me. They didn't care. She didn't have a child at home, but that was really smart of her to try to yeah they didn't care though that's crazy you would think at least that would speak to kenny who um was uh his wife still pregnant or excuse me his girlfriend still pregnant at that point yep you would think that would speak to you no I mean I know Angelo's like all kinds of fucked up yeah Angelo doesn't give a shit he has like 18 kids and he doesn't care Yeah, they just don't care.

And they did the same thing with her that they did with the other ones.

They brought her back. to Angelo's, they duct taped her eyes and her hands, they duct taped her mouth, she was sexually assaulted, and she was murdered.

While this was all happening, Kenny looked through her purse and found a gold Italian horn necklace. and stole it because he thought Kelly would like it.

His girlfriend. Yep. How did she left him, though?

Because he punched her in the face. Is he just trying to get her back with that?

They're still trying to like. it's on and off they're just messy it's so funny because she never wants to marry him Right.

But, like, he still is trying. And she's like, I literally don't want to marry you.

Like, I don't think you're going to be a good dad.

Like, I don't understand. But so he's still trying, apparently.

Well, good for her, though, just being like, yeah, like, yeah I'm having your kid but like fuck off but like you need to go away yeah like get your life together so Kimberly Diane Martin was found the next day Now, some sources I found said she had burn marks on her palms as well, but the majority that I found said she didn't.

So maybe people get it mixed up. And I couldn't get the actual autopsy report or anything, so I don't think she had burns, but...

I mean, I can't say for sure. It doesn't sound like they would have had a lot of time to do that.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like they were really dragging this one out further.

They had laid her nude and spread eagle on a steep hill off of Alvarado Street.

And it was also very close to and within sight of City Hall.

Whoa. And the papers were all thinking she had been purposely placed facing or pointing to City Hall just as some kind of like, fuck you.

Oh, yeah. Apparently, according to them, it was an accident, but they thought it was a great accident.

I kind of doubt. I feel like they did it on purpose.

I think so. Now, the night that she was abducted...

The Climax outcall service got nervous when she didn't return or tell them she was returning.

Because that was the whole point of the agencies.

Yeah. They looked out for you. So they called a social worker because they were like, something's off here.

They called a social worker named Dr. Lois Lee.

She actually founded this thing called CAT. which is California Association for Trollops.

And it was a place where sex workers could go get legal advice or get counseling.

Wow. Yeah, it sounds pretty cool. That's amazing.

So Dr. Lois used the number Kenny had given the service to trace it back to the phone booth at the Hollywood Public Library and then went to the address she saw given and saw that it was a vacant apartment.

So she right away went to the West Hollywood Sheriff's Department and was like, something's wrong.

Well, they told her it hasn't even been 24 hours.

And then they basically told her she's a sex worker anyways, so why would we care?

Like they literally told her like, sure, you can come back.

But like, I'm going to be honest with you.

We like don't give a shit. That is like she's probably fine.

Why are we even going to waste this? It's crazy because we hear this all the time.

Like we either hear like, oh, she's a sex worker. whatever or like especially around this time period oh she's a runaway yeah but it's never less shocking to hear no it's always shocking because it's like it's a person thankfully you and i don't like think that way but like you just it's a person That's a human being that is somebody's daughter.

And it's like that's you're literally just saying like there is a. whole ass human that is missing.

Right. And it's weird and there's all these weird things.

They used a phone booth to call the agency.

That's weird. It traced back to a vacant apartment.

A vacant apartment. Some weird shit is going on.

Oh, and there's that whole thing that there's multiple serial killers around the area right now.

Do you think maybe you should give it like a second glance?

That's like, I love the analogy that you made one time where it's like, because back then the whole thing it was like oh well sex work is dangerous work so what did you expect But then I remember the time that you were like race car driving is also like really dangerous. not so if a race car driver like gets in a crash he'll be like oh whatever let's not help him it's dangerous he knew what he was getting into It's like the same exact thing.

No, it's like that. Like obviously very different jobs, but it's. the same precedent or principle.

It's the same, like, why are we being so dismissive of one And as a human being, right?

Like why, why does it make them less of a human being?

I don't understand that. I don't either.

Kenny even went so far as to continue to try to get a job with the police department again. guy in the midst of this my guy in the midst of this it's not gonna happen no Stop trying to make your police dream happen.

It's not going to happen. You say that? December 16th, three days after the murder of Kimberly Diane Martin.

He actually went on a fucking ride-along with some LAPD officers.

I'm a head out. Yeah. I just took my glasses off because I didn't even want to see this anymore.

No, you don't even want to see it. see it i just want to be blind for a minute hold on i that's are you kidding me three days After murdering someone, he went on a ride-along with LAPD officers. confusing because I'm like, Kenny, why do you want to be a police officer?

What's the reason? What is it that you want to do?

Power and authority. But for me, my brain is like being a police officer is to help people.

No, according to Kenny's different ways.

Kenny's He wanted power and authority. And to him, perfect way to get whoever I want to do whatever I want.

And that's what he wanted. No, that's not the vibe, though.

It's not supposed to be. But unfortunately, while he was on this ride along, He kept asking them, they testified to this later, that he kept asking them to bring him to scenes of the hillside strangler bodies. yeah like be more obvious those officers were like uh I guess they tried to find a couple of them, but they were like, I don't know where they are.

I wasn't on that scene. all homicide detectives.

Just trying to pull this guy over. We don't all just go to like homicide scenes all the time.

So he was like, no, but like how bold, yeah to be sitting there and be like I want to see these but that's I feel like he like had these like weird things where he had to like say something oh no he loved this well because even the whole thing of like at work he would be like oh yeah me It wasn't even like he had to say something.

No, he just loved this. He felt like a celebrity.

Right. He just loved it. He wanted to be a star.

That's what he was like. This is how I'm going to do it.

It's so weird to me. I'm like, but that's not for a good thing.

No. You want to be famous for something good?

No. Kenny Bianchi is a fucking bridge troll.

He doesn't want that. I know. I just don't get it.

He wanted to First of all, he wanted to have police officers drive him to his own scenes that alone is gonna get him like whoa like rocks and then when he gets there He wants to sit there and watch everyone's reactions and he wants to hear what everybody has to say and hear all the things.

That would be exactly what he needs. He's disgusting.

It's so weird. So Kenny, especially, like I said, is riding high on this anonymous celebrity status that he has.

But... They were also not super psyched with how the abduction and murder of Kimberly Martin had gone down because it was pretty messy. when you put it next to all the other ones.

So now they're a little scared because they almost botched to that one.

Like that was real close. And Angelo especially was pissed. pissed because he totally blamed kenny because he said it was your plan That's why it went wrong.

You're getting too bold. You're getting too high off this shit.

Like, He was like, you like this too much.

Like, it's just becoming something. Okay, Angelo.

Which I love that it's like Angelo's acting like he's so like superior here.

Right. It's like, you know what? you're liking this too much.

And it's like, you motherfucker. It's like, why do you do it?

Experiment with torture on people. Are you kidding me?

You're trying to sit here and act like you're on a high horse?

Get out of here. You're just as gross. He's acting like he's like Dexter or something.

He's like, oh, you know. You've got to be doing this for the right reasons.

Just because you're an introvert doesn't make you any better.

I don't understand. Well, either way, the police were talking to everyone in the apartment building now because obviously people had called, things had been said. the agency had called and been like, something is going on here, so they had to check it out.

And they also talked to everybody at the Hollywood Public Library.

And they took fingerprints from the phone booth that Kenny had used, and they did get fingerprints, but they didn't have anything to compare it to.

Right. So now his fingerprints are on file, which is like when you're reading it, you're like infuriated because you're like, Right.

Like you have them. You just can't do anything with them.

And that makes me so bad for you. That does suck.

But they actually talked to Kenny when they came to the apartment building because he lived on the third floor.

That's how stupid he is. Yeah, correct.

And he's like, his IQ is high, but his brain is low.

Well, because he doesn't apply himself. No, he doesn't.

He doesn't take the time to... To do something good with his brain or to like... just anything he didn't contribute anything or like just like cover all bases yeah he can't do it Which I'm glad he doesn't.

But he was the only resident of the third floor to say that he heard screams that night. again the dumb right like it's just say i didn't hear anything i'm on the third floor right And everybody else on the third floor was like, I didn't hear anything.

Or like say you were grocery shopping at that time.

Well, they thought this was strange. They were like, that's weird that he's the only one.

Nobody else did. But they were like, okay, whatever.

Bye. So, Kenny, meanwhile, was... just getting more and more psyched about the media coverage.

He could not stop reading about, oops, excuse me.

I just like punched my microphone. I was like, he's reading about it.

He could not stop reading about it. He could not stop watching it on TV.

He just wanted to talk about it all the time.

He loved it. And he liked that people were terrified.

He could feel the fear. He could feel it all around him.

He could see the police officers staking out downtown on the strip.

He could see it all and he was like, this is what I want.

This is power. Right. So after Kimberly Martin was murdered, police had a ton of undercover officers in hollywood to like intermix with the sex workers there like undercover yeah and they were like women, men, like you would never be able to tell.

They even had the cooperation of the sex workers and the people that were all working there, which is rare.

And that like they were all working together.

Right. They were going to try to keep it safe.

They want to nab these guys. The fucking media leaked it.

Oh. And it was blown. Oh, that sucks. Totally blown.

And it could have worked. It's like, what's the point of leaking that?

You're just... you just ruined everything.

The media is just dumb. Like they, especially at this time, they just were, you know, it's like that whole thing, if it bleeds, it leads.

And it's like, So at this time, Angelo and Kenny are starting to bicker.

Their relationship is not... you know, this whole buddy-buddy thing anymore.

The threads of their like weird-ass spontaneous relationships that was kind of like forced upon them were definitely unraveling at this point.

Angelo especially, like the elder, is starting to get really annoyed with Kenny.

And the last abduction and murder was the thing that just like really set it off for them.

He's like, this is careless and it's your fault.

That's the end. So... Because that one was so messy, because they were getting on each other's nerves, and because they were really close to getting caught, they agreed that they needed to like chill for a minute. because after all November had been fucking chaos yeah it was like every four days literally sometimes less yeah like raining terror And in the interim, Kenny had gotten fired from his job because his boss found out that he was lying about having cancer.

And so all the time he was taking off pretending to go to chemo was bullshit.

He found it out and they were like, you're disgusting.

Get out of here. I wonder how they found that out.

So he lost his apartment. Eventually his Cadillac got repossessed and he started working at a nursing home.

No, get out. get out of there that's the thing though he wasn't gross or horrible at work weird he kept it together at work Are you sure he wasn't putting pillows over people's faces?

No, everybody who worked with him said he was great.

They couldn't understand that that was the same guy.

That's real weird. Which is... So crazy that they can like dissociate like that.

Like, whoa. So he was falling into a real shitty rut at this point.

Like everything's falling apart. Mm-hmm.

And again, they may be adamant about taking a break because they don't want to like end this quite yet but the world around them was still in terror Even though they were taking a break, and they're just trying to get away from it for a little while.

Well, because also other people are still dying and being killed by other serial killers.

But the Hillside Strangler is still in everybody's mind.

Everybody's still like, Okay, he's taking a little time away here, but when's he coming back?

No one knows. And people know, too, that serial killers do take breaks. exactly and it's like so they serial killers take a break but the fear of them doesn't So like I said about Kimberly Martin, she had joined the Climax Agency because she was so concerned about them.

So sex workers were particularly taking extra precautions to make sure they didn't end up in the wrong car.

And I found a newspaper article from December 20th of that year in 78.

Excuse me, 77, where they described the horror and fear that was gripping the area during this time. it's from the New York Times and it described how sex workers would work in groups and And they would make sure to study faces of any potential client who picked any of them up. whenever they felt safe enough to allow their friend to go with any man, they would write down the license plate altogether.

And at this time, serial killer was not a term used.

So the killer in this newspaper article was being referred to as a multiple murderer.

Which is so funny to see now. It is. It feels like such a cumbersome phrase.

It does. Like multiple murderer. Sometimes we love alliteration and sometimes we don't.

Sometimes we don't. That's not one. I just found that interesting though. but sporting goods stores said there was a huge rush in like guns, knives, self-defense classes were being filled up.

It was mayhem. And in the same New York Times article, a sex worker they interviewed who went by Cheryl, said, quote, we're all trying to have a good Christmas the same way anybody else is.

The cops don't care about us. We've got to look after each other.

A lot of us are taking license plate numbers.

And someone who was near her during this conversation with the media said, we have to come out here with straight razors to protect ourselves.

We have to come out here with knives. Then we get busted for having them.

Yeah. And I was like, whoa, that sucks.

Just very telling. Now, Kenny and Angelo spent a lot of time apart during the next month or so.

Kenny attempted to spend more time with Kelly, his pregnant girlfriend, and pretend to not be like a monster demon with her.

There was also an extended period of time where it rained for a few days California like a lot of days.

I think they had a drought at the time so it was like a ton of rain came.

So it didn't really present itself with an opportunity for them to do this again because the weather was kind of cooperating with the rest of the world.

Now a man named Ned York, who was an actor, actually confessed at this time.

Yeah. In the beginning of February, he came out and said he was the hillside strangler.

Why do people do that? He was a nut. It was clear to Salerno and Grogan that he was making it up and really he only would say what was released to the media. which was not a lot.

And I talked about in part two how little they released to the media.

He was also just really kind of like talking about his own sick, twisted fantasies.

And they thought he was just wanting to do that.

Yeah. Just kind of spin his own fantasies. with this here's a cell for you sir yeah he and one main thing that told him he was not the guy was he was adamant that he used his own bare hands to strangle all of these women and they were like well we know that that's not the truth yeah and he told detailed stories about it what the fuck and Of course, they hadn't released the five-point ligature calling card to the press, so he thought he was telling the truth.

What a weirdo. Yeah, they had only released that these women were strangled.

They didn't say by a ligature. So during the interrogation with him, he tried to light his own crotch on fire with a cigarette.

So they're like, I don't think you're the guy.

No. Yeah. They put it out by throwing cold soda on it.

Thank you. Just so you know. Because I was like, I wanted to know what happened, but I also didn't want to ask.

One of the detectives threw a Coke on his crotch. iconic yeah what a moment what a moment i can't imagine being there i'd be like what what have what has the world become Like what happens to when somebody does that?

Like it's like clear that like you're sick and you need help.

Yeah, I don't know what happened with him.

I didn't look further into New York, but...

Finally, the same month in February, Kenny made a stop over at Angelo's after a long time apart.

Hey, buddy, how you doing? But he was basically there just to complain and like whine.

Kenny? He had lost his job. His car was repossessed.

His pregnant girlfriend still wouldn't like him. like marry him she didn't even want to live with him at this point because remember she he punched her in the face correct she still wasn't living with him again she was like no we can spend some time together but like we're not and so he was living with her brother's friends And it's clear that she was probably just keeping him around to hopefully be in her child's life.

She was basically trying to debate... whether she should keep him around purely for the child.

Right. That was it. He was a loser, like a huge loser.

And Angela was no better. He was doing the same old shit.

He was sleeping with high school girls still.

And his son's girlfriends. All the while, the Hillside Strangler Task Force is... starting to like a little bit close in okay not totally but they're getting there They're working on it.

And you know what? They're doing the damn thing.

It's not for lack of trying. Yeah. You know what's even more stressful than a packed calendar?

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The sale ends 831. Don't miss it. So he stops in on February 16th and Angelo's like, hey, buddy, I know it'll cheer you up.

Let's go out and find someone to murder.

It's been a while. Oh, so the rain is cleared.

It's been long enough of a break. So they go out driving in Angelo's car because remember, they don't have the Cadillac anymore.

Yeah. So in the middle of the day, literally at noon, middle of the day...

Bright shining sun. Stop. They're driving through Burbank in Angelo's Excalibur car.

I don't even know what that is. Fancy. That's when they spot a beautiful young blonde girl sitting at a bus stop.

So they pull over and Kenny is driving. So Angelo just leans out of the window and says, hey, sweetie, you want to go to a party in Hollywood?

Oh, God. And she says, no. So that has just showed me the Excalibur.

That's a no. Nice ass car. That's the other thing.

You're going to take that car and act like you're being like, that's literally, don't be suspicious.

Don't be suspicious. That's literally it.

Seriously. Like, what the fuck? They're both the biggest idiots.

And I'm glad they are. Yeah, I saw somebody driving a Transformer and he was... was the one that did that like a souped up hearse like it's like what are you doing it's like I don't even know how to describe this car.

So she says no when he says, do you want to go to a party in Hollywood?

Yeah, that's a very random question. And he won't take no for an answer.

He just keeps pushing. She is terrified.

Like, he's getting scary. She's a young girl.

She's just sitting at a fucking bus stop.

And she's like, dude, no. And she keeps like shaking her head.

No, like just being like, no, like, please drive away.

So finally he gets pissed and launches himself out of the car at her. grabs her by the arms and tries to literally, forcibly abduct her from the bus stop, On Riverside Drive in Burbank at noon.

Luckily, an older woman pulled up behind them, jumped out of her car and grabbed this girl.

She did not know this girl. Yeah. She screamed at Kenny and Angelo, telling him to get the fuck away from her and leave her alone.

She grabbed the girl away, telling her, like, I'll help you.

You're going to be OK. And she was like, get the fuck out. fuck out of here like I'm calling the police and she was like and then she's yelling for people around her like call the police They dove into the car, but before they did, Angelo launched a threat directly at her for ruining their morning like and he said something along the lines like god will get you or something and she's like yeah no i think it's the other way around buddy yeah So they both thought that was the end of that.

They were like pissed, annoyed. It was fucked up.

They thought that was the end of the young girl and the woman who saved her.

No, no, no, no. It wasn't. Her name was Jan Sims, the older woman.

I don't know the name of the, we never found out the name of the young girl.

Yeah. She didn't even find out the name of the young girl.

But Jan Sims was a teacher who had made and she made sure the girl was okay.

She comforted her. She sat in her car with her for like an hour till she calmed down. she got her on the bus she like took care of her she's like i didn't even know her name that's scary i would literally become like agoraphobic i literally would never leave my house.

But she then, so Jan Sims then went to the police and she described the car and which was very specific.

Yeah. And the two men inside to the last minute. detail.

She even mentioned Kenny's acne scars on his neck.

And remember, The neighbor who saw Lauren Wagner be abducted mentioned the same exact detail about Kenny.

Yes. Acne stars on his neck. so this time she's a queen now this time so you're looking at this and you're going oh my god they're probably like there there they are They're at it again, back at it.

And they're probably like, whoa, thank you, Jan Sims.

No. So the brain trust at the North Hollywood police station thought this was a crazy lady and just dismissed her.

Bye. Wow. Wow. So there's this violent horrific rash of torture serial killings of women in the area for months And this officer dismissed this when there is a detail that matches with another.

Witness, but they brought like it's like did you forget question mark?

She actually wouldn't let it go. She kept calling the police station over the next week saying she knew that she saw the car, but... parked on East Colorado Street, which is where Angelo lived.

Wow. She was like, I know I've driven by it before.

That's a very specific car. I know it. Like, please go check it out.

You'll find him on there. Why would you not?

They ignored her and they even threatened, they literally were like, stop calling.

Don't call her again. Don't call the police?

Who the fuck am I going to call then? So now Kenny and Angelo, meanwhile, are fuming.

Kenny decided to try to maintain some sense of control and power.

He was So he was like, I'm gonna go to the lot where they towed my Cadillac and I'm gonna demand that the manager give it back to me.

Usually how that goes. Yeah, that'll work.

For sure. He also threatened to file police report on this manager because he said he had some really expensive scuba gear in that car and it was gone.

So they obviously stole it. He never scuba dived.

He never owned scuba gear. He just thought scuba gear made you cool.

This is who we're dealing with. This is such a random thing.

This is who we're dealing with here. Like not even just like I had a really expensive camera in there because I'm a photographer.

I had fucking scuba gear in there and you stole it.

You know who's scuba certified? Me. And you know who's scuba certified, Gary?

You took mine. What? Like, what? Hwa? Excuse me?

Hwa, Kenny? Hwa? And just the fact that he never scuba dived.

Like... Were you trying to get free scuba gear?

You know that he must have just like... like saw it in a magazine or like a commercial.

He was like, you know what? Dudes that scuba are just the most.

Getting the ladies. They're the most. I gotta be like them.

Very White Lotus. Yeah, he's ridiculous.

I can't. Like we're dealing with a guy who lies about having scuba gear just because he thinks it makes him like manly and cool.

Also, let's be real. He could never get scuba certified because it takes time.

It does. And he doesn't have the patience for that shit.

He doesn't want to apply the time. So add to that that he's like... I think we just need to add... aggressively fraudulent scuba diver to his terrible traits.

He's a rapist, a murderer. an aggressively fraudulent scuba diver.

That's what he is. Like, what a shit pile.

You can say a lot of things about me, but you can't say I'm an aggressively fraudulent scooby diver.

No, you can't. You can't say that. Wow. Well, luckily the manager told him to go fuck himself and he tucked his tail between his legs and went back to Angelo's to bitch and moan again.

I don't know why he keeps going. I don't think Angelo is like one of those comforting places of warmth when you need it.

Like, I don't... I wouldn't go... who's going to Angelo's to be like, I need help.

Can you make me feel better? Like Kenny.

Like Kenny keeps going back to him and Angelo's like, I fucking hate you.

I wonder though in like a weird way if he like saw Kenny as like a father figure because he was young when his father died.

Oh, I think he looked, he definitely looked up to Kennedy.

He thought Kennedy, I almost said, Kenny.

And he thought, you know, he's because right when he moved in there, he saw he was getting the ladies.

Yeah. He had a business. I mean, he's driving around a fucking what's that car called?

He's very clean. An Excalibur. He's very clean.

He's always dressed nice. He's got it going on right now.

They had sick, twisted fun together. Exactly.

So I think he feels weirdly bonded with him, but whoa.

I also think that he knows that going to Angela's house is going to lead to them hopefully going out together.

Oh, for sure. And right now... he's pissed and he needs to get that out.

So he's hoping when he goes there, Angelo, instead of being like, yeah, let's talk about it, brother. like let's he's gonna be like all right shut the fuck up let's just go do this and get your anger out yeah because he knows that's how kenny deals with things right So when he gets there, Angelo happened to be talking to a young woman in his upholster shop.

She introduced herself as Sydney Hudspeth and Cindy, excuse me, Cindy Hudspeth.

She was 20 years old and she had worked at a nearby restaurant that Angelo used to frequent.

She had actually waited on him a few times and he had given her his card from his shop because she had got a new car.

So she said she needed a new floor mats made for her new car.

And she was like, Angela's the guy. We got to have him do it.

Right. So Kenny walks in as they're talking and Angelo introduces them.

They chat for a bit. And then they excuse themselves for a minute, leaving Cindy in the shop and having Kenny come inside with them because he's like, oh, I just got to get Kenny something.

This is where they decided she was next.

Oh, no. That's also very messy. This is so messy.

So to them, She was a lamb who like wandered right into the slaughter.

They were like, this is perfect. She wandered right in here.

It's just for us. She wandered right in here.

We don't even have to leave. To this business to get something.

Yeah, and parked her orange Datsun right in front of our car.

So an orange car, no matter what it is, you're like that's distinct.

Yeah. She was looking at the time. She was looking for a new job.

So their plan was... was to have her come into Angelo's where he would say he had a list of people looking to hire for part time work. right and when she was in there they would do it right so it worked She was very appreciative of this offer to give her some numbers for people looking to hire.

And she thought since she had waited on him many times and chatted with him for so long that it was safe.

Mm-hmm. He was a regular at that diner.

Like, why wouldn't that be safe? Right. After all, they were in his shop that he owned.

Right. You're not thinking that this is what.

So. It just you wouldn't think it would be a dangerous situation.

So especially because while he was gathering the cord and bag and tape and supplies out back.

Kenny chatted with her like an old friend.

Like, got to know her. They laughed. They talked about things.

Like... Didn't matter. They did a coin toss and she was the next victim.

Wow. This time they tied her to the bed because they were worried about any escape or issues because now they were paranoid.

They had gone through enough unpredictability lately, and Kenny was the one to do the final strangling.

So on the same day that they botched the abduction of the girl at the bus stop, they were able to find their next victim in Angela's own shop.

This was all the same day. Oh, shit. I didn't realize that.

And now remember, not only did she park her car in front of their shop, but she also had Angelo's business card.

That's the whole reason she's there. And she wasn't holding it.

So it's somewhere. It's probably in the Datsun.

He found it in the car. Which also is like a dazed and confused-esque car.

I know. It's not the same thing, but they look similar.

So he found the business card in the Datsun and he tore it up and threw it away so it wouldn't be connected.

Goddamn. Then they put her nude body in the trunk of her own new car.

Kenny drove her car wearing medical gloves on and Angelo followed in his Mustang.

Like, buddy, you still have hair. Yeah. Now, before he drove off, Kenny grabbed a fake beard he had with him and threw it on just for kicks.

And at first when I read this, I was like, you're the dumbest.

Like what is wrong with you? It actually works in his favor.

I mean, I guess it makes sense. Now they drove out to a place called Angelus Crest, where there were like hills and a cliff. like very scenic, where Kenny figured they could send her car over the side of the cliff with her inside.

Wow. And they did. And it stopped halfway down and got stuck.

So as you can see, they're trying to make it more theatrical.

They're trying to make a bigger splash here.

Now they've used an entire car and shoved it down a cliff with a body inside of it.

It's a lot. So they've done this, this horrific theatrical thing which is also another risky thing that they've done.

Yeah, I mean, that's a lot. Again, I think I just said that, but I was just like...

It's still a lot. It's the most. So one week later, Kenny's son is born.

So what do you think they named their son?

Kenny? Kenny Jr.? You would think. No, they named his son Ryan.

And yes, he used the name Mike Ryan when he lured Kimberly Martin to her violent death. right and he did make the connection and he did think it was funny And then he... So that's why he named his kid Ryan?

Yeah. Because remember... He used the name Ryan because it was also the police officer that rejected his LAPD application.

But that's like a fuck you. Like, why are you... like usually you name your child after somebody to like honor them no it's just him that that's how fucked he is They claimed it was after a soap opera star, but he also said later that he made the connection between the two and he thought it was a funny...

Which is just fucked up. Yeah, that's just not funny.

That's your whole ass child. That's your child who has that name forever.

And Ryan is a great name. Yeah, well, that's the thing.

I like the name Ryan. It's ridiculous. By this time, Salerno and Grogan, the two detectives on the case, were basically like... bosses on this case, like they've taken everything over because the You know, the task force has grown to over 100 officers.

Things are getting lost in the shuffle. Information is not being transferred correctly.

So, Grogan and Salerno have kind of taken it upon themselves to just take it over.

They're like, let's do this. So unfortunately, you know, because other officers at this point...

They're just not, as we've seen, they're not doing it.

It's not happening. So they would at least be the two that would always like meet together, discuss the case, move it forward.

And they actually started coming up with the idea that, you know what?

We don't only have to keep information from the media.

We kind of have to start holding information from the task force.

Right. Because they're leaking it at times.

Like, it's getting leaked out. It's not helping anyone.

That's so fucked. So they just kind of kept it within themselves and like a few other officers.

Like trusted. Yeah. And unfortunately, things were still leaking and some of it was just flat out wrong.

Like they were just coming out with like lies at this point.

Like one news station distributed a composite sketch. of what they were calling the fugitive, but it wasn't made by police.

It was just a drawing. Didn't have anything to do with the descriptions.

Nothing. Just a drawing of a man. That's good.

So then the entire city is looking for that man who doesn't exist.

Right. Yeah, it was detrimental. Yeah. So February 17th, Cindy Hudspeth's roommate reported her missing.

In the same day, her nude body was spotted in the trunk of the car.

It was spotted on the cliff by a helicopter that was tasked with flying over the area normally, like every day routinely to look for fires because California Because California.

And other issues in the hills. Yeah. And cars tend to go over these hills sometimes, like accidents.

So it was actually just looking for cars and stuff.

And they spotted the car and the body since the trunk had flown open.

Right. Now, Frank Salerno was one on the scene and he immediately knew it was the Stranglers because of that five-point ligature. so he was like here we go again oh no because they had had a break yeah now her autopsy showed several wounds, but it was difficult to determine exactly, you know,

Was it from being shoved off a cliff in a trunk or was it from the ordeal she was going through when she was alive?

A mixture of both, obviously. It really was.

So a lot of like the lacerations and bruises, they were like, I'm pretty sure this is just from the car accident.

Yeah. Which I'm sure they wanted. You know, because now everybody's questioning.

Right. So Cindy Hudspeth. was a hardworking, cautious, and very kind girl, according to everyone who knew her.

She wanted to get out of LA. She thought it was like too chaotic and too crazy, especially with everything going on.

Right. And she wanted to go to college somewhere else in California, like maybe, you know, Sonoma or like somewhere else.

The recent strangler murders had her even more worried and even more ready to get out of the city, and she was doing everything she could to stay safe.

She took precautions. She worked days. and some nights as a waitress at the Robin Hood Inn in Red Vest in Glendale.

That's where she met... And that is so crazy that she was like trying to get her way out of there because she was so afraid of the stranglers and she knew a strangler.

Yeah. And she had known him all along. Right.

Yeah. And she had no idea. Everyone she worked with loved her.

They said she was like a delight to work with. and she was requested by customers all the time to be their waitress, which you always know you're a good waitress when you have people like You know, everybody knows that waitress that they go in and they're like, oh, can I have like Susie?

You know who was not that waitress? Her name rhymes with bash.

Yeah, it certainly does. Not once did I get a request that wasn't my grandparents.

Wow. Not once. I was a very shitty waitress.

I'm a little too scatterbrained for that.

Yeah, you know, it just wasn't your calling.

It's okay. Yeah. Well, at night she was working at the Glendale Community College because she was an ambitious badass who worked two jobs to make sure she could buy that car and get herself the fuck out of LA she was doing it She was also a dancer.

She loved dance, had medals, trophies to prove it.

She was actually planning to add to her busy schedule by giving dance lessons as well.

Wow. She had printed out business cards.

She was like, this could be fun. be like a little side business yeah but and she she just loved dance and she was like i just want to teach others to do it and it'll be extra cash why not She was ready to go, but the hillside strangler murders had scared her into waiting.

Because she said she didn't want to have strangers coming over even for dance lessons.

Mm-hmm. Because she was careful. This is what kills me.

She had a lot of friends who loved her. She had a family who loved her.

It just like makes me so angry. Like she did it.

All these women did everything they were supposed to do.

There was no avoiding it. And that's what kills me.

I'm like, there's just no avoiding this.

Like we can say all the things we want and you can take all the precautions you want, but sometimes bad things still happen.

Yeah, it's like you just... It's unfortunately like the way of the world.

Yeah. It really sucks. But you should still take all the precautions.

Of course. It's just when you hear of someone like really taking the extra steps, you're like, man.

Makes it worse. Yeah, it's just like, ugh.

Now, these idiots had made a mistake with this.

When they had driven up the cliff, they had been spotted.

A woman named Janice Ackers was on the Angeles Crest Road that evening and noticed two cars coming up really fast behind her.

One was an orange-red colored car. And when she went to turn, he had sped up and flew past her on the right.

And the other car did after him. And why would you do that?

Let's try to be a little innocuous here.

Kenny, of course. And Kenny had also stared at her as he drove by.

Wow. Looked right into her face. Unfortunately, she reported that he had a full beard because he was wearing that fake one.

Now, there was, of course, everybody's like, oh, my God, we didn't hear that from the last one, like the neighbor and all that.

Nobody had reported a full beard. And like Grogan and Salerno were like, there's been time between murders.

Like men grow facial hair. You can shave it and grow it.

Yeah, you can look different. different, but it still kind of threw a whole wrench into everything.

And again, also, it's only been a month and it's like she's a full beard.

So it is a little. So it does throw things off.

Now, among the thousands of tips and different professions offering their services to help solve these murders, psychiatrists, psychics, private detectives are all trying to get in on the action.

One, this is just really interesting and I found it in the Darcy O'Brien book.

One guy from Germany who was a private investigator wrote into the LAPD and said he would solve the crimes if they would just fly him out there and they talked to him but they were like humoring him a little bit and they were like yeah we're not gonna fly him out because like what the fuck yeah Well, one day he just showed up, just showed up at the LAPD department and he spoke only German.

They were like, we don't know what you're saying.

But there was one officer who was German and he was like, oh, I can translate.

Oh shit. So he had the guy write down what he wanted to say.

I shit you not. This dude wrote. Two Italians brothers aged about 35.

Why did he know that? They sent him back to Germany and ignored him.

What? Dude had it almost exactly right. Two Italians brothers.

They're cousins. And they had a very brother-like relationship. they're around the age like honestly 35 is like the perfect average between their ages i wonder what made him think that he just He was very good at profiling, obviously.

He probably went off of, yeah, the profiling.

But it's like even, I mean... Think of all the information we know now, but he wasn't getting all of that.

He was only getting what they were putting out there, which like we said. wasn't too much.

And honestly, most of the descriptions that they were putting out there were also were people thinking that they were Latin.

Because they were saying they had dark hair.

They were like, they appeared Latin to me.

Like a lot of people pointed that out. They were wrong.

Yeah. But I could see why like you could make that mistake if it's like chaos and dark and whatever.

Yeah. But it's And he managed to be like, no, it's two Italians who are related.

Wow. like what that's crazy I want to know more about that man's and why I know I looked it up but I was like tell me why it's wild I mean, it's just some people like it's there's like a science behind it.

Oh, yeah. Now, Kenny was kicked out of his roommate situation around this time.

Of course he was. At this point, I'm just like, yep, yep.

You're like, yeah, he was. His scuba gear wasn't the one that wasn't actually existing.

They stole his scuba gear. He was a terrible roommate.

He used their cars without asking. He would just get in their car and drive away.

They were like, If I had a motherfucking roommate that just took my car one day.

You can catch these hands. And he was just like, didn't care about anything.

He brought high school girls over to watch porn.

What the fuck? They found a police badge in his shit, and since it was reported that the Stranglers were maybe posing as police officers, They were like, bye, you got to go.

So they were they told a neighbor about the badge, but they didn't tell the police, which I was like. the 70s everybody like come on but also then you think about it and like it being in that position you're like so i'm just gonna like call the police and tell them that i found this and like A lot of people are calling the police and telling them things that they've heard.

I'm going to be honest, though. If they were saying, like, if in this situation... Oh, I would do it.

If I found a police badge and they were reporting that the Hillside Stranglers, who looked like my roommate in most instances, were using a police badge and I knew he was not a police officer in any way shape or form I would call him the like This is just a little weird.

Just a little weird tip, but you do what you want.

He's not living with me anymore, so it's cool.

And then you know what they would say to you?

Don't call back here. Like they said to that other woman.

And you know what though? I'd be like, okay.

I did my due diligence. I did what I needed to do.

No, I know. I let them know they can go fuck off if I end up being right.

I'm just devil's advocating. But I'm just saying.

So apparently the neighbor did... tell police good the neighbor was like no you had the wherewithal we should tell the police this And Glendale police came to Kenny and asked him, like, do you own a police badge?

And he goes... No. And they were like, OK, good day, sir.

And they left. Right, exactly. Of course they did.

Wow. Of course they did. He said, no. And they said, okay.

Cool, cool, cool. I'm going to take your word for it.

All right. He probably could have been like, yeah.

And they would have been like, like, I can't.

Okay. I literally can't. I literally can't.

I'm done. So one high school girl that Kenny was like constantly involved with and hang out with.

Yeah. had told her mother that Kenny talked about the Hillside Stranglers all the time.

And her mom was like, why are you hanging out with this man?

Well, and her mom was like, wait, how old is he?

And that's when she got upset and she started talking to the police and saying, My daughter is being groomed by this man.

We loves a mama bear. fuck this. Because she was like, no.

But she's like, she's told me he's very strange.

And the mom was like, I'm sure he's one of the stranglers.

I know it. Like, you need to go check him out.

Mother's instinct. She said she was like, go check him out.

So they did. They did again. But when they did, they traced his address from his name, and it led to his old apartment address.

The one where Christina Weckler lived. Oh.

They made zero connection to this. Stop.

Stop! They also didn't bat an eye... that in his records there would be proof that he was questioned about Kimberly Martin's abduction and murder at the Tamarin departments.

No. They barely talked to him. They were charmed with him.

And when he said how impressed he was with LAPD officers and how He had applied and he always wanted to be police officer and just they left.

Yeah, we love a brown noser. Are you kidding? me?

No. The amount of connections that people are not making here is like, hello.

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But Kenny now, he's excited now. He's loving it.

Yeah, because he thinks that he can do whatever the fuck he wants because, um.

He can at this moment. He excitedly tells Angelo.

He's like, I have managed to get the cops off my ass.

Three times now. And Angelo's like, that's not going to happen a fourth time.

Also, Angelo's like, yeah, yeah. That's not cool because that means the police are on to you.

That means they have your name three times and have spoken to you three times. that means that something's weird here and people are starting to question you.

Right. So Angelo got so pissed that he pulled a gun on Kenny.

Oh shit. And told him that he was gonna kill him.

I'm surprised he didn't. So they spent some time apart.

Why though? They took a little time away from each other. and in 1970 so this was like you know at the end of 1977

In 1978, Kelly moved with their son, Ryan, to Bellingham, Washington.

Oh wow. Because that's where her parents, she was from there.

Her parents lived there. She gave Kenny notice, like she didn't just like up and leave.

Yeah. But she was like, I'm trying to say she's like, it's chaotic here.

It's chaotic here. with all this going on i don't want to be in here with like an infant i want him in like a safe, stable place.

So Kenny was like supposedly devastated and complained to Angelo all the time.

And Angela was just like, dude, then go move there.

Right. Angela was like, cool, get the fuck out of here.

So he was like, no, no, no. know, like, I have a life here.

And he's like, your son is there. If you want to be with your son, you have to go fucking live in Washington.

Like, stop complaining to me. And Kenny's like, well, Angela, let's talk about that statement.

Exactly. And I think Kenny's like, I think you just want me out of here.

And Angela's like, yes. I do. Like, get the fuck out.

Also, imagine if he had gone to Washington and stayed there.

He might not have gotten caught. Yeah. That's crazy.

Well... Get ready. Let's talk. Get ready.

I'm ready. So finally. During this whole thing, he's like, yeah, yeah, just go live with your son.

That's what he wants. Yeah, that's totally what I'm just trying to tell you to be a family man.

That's what I want. And then he finally is like, all right, Kenny, you need to go to Washington because if you don't, I'm going to kill you.

So those are your options. Stay here, get got, or go to Washington.

So Kenny moved to Washington with Kelly and Ryan.

Bitch. Yep. And I also just realized that their names are Kelly and Ryan.

And it just... made me think of the morning show, Kelly and Ryan.

I don't know, it just felt like, because I said them together for the first time.

I thought you were going to say it made you think of The Office, and I'm surprised that I thought of that and you did wow you're welcome wow i don't even watch that show i was just gonna say you don't even watch the office wow that's nuts yeah I like Kelly, though.

I love Mindy Kaling. Oh, I love her. I love The Office.

But so, yeah, he moved to Washington with them.

And he was like... He was like, you know what?

This is gonna be my new life. I'm gonna be a family man, I'm gonna make I'm gonna work hard.

I'm gonna make some money. She's gonna stop murdering people.

I'm gonna stop. So at first he got a job at a hardware store as a security guard.

Abishan? But soon he got a job at Whatcom County Sheriff's Reserves.

I don't want to see it again. I took my glasses off.

It's a lot. Uh, And he also was taking classes and policing and stuff, so he's really boning up here.

So now he is being tasked with checking security systems in houses.

And he was also stealing people, like stealing things from people's houses now.

And part of the thing that he had to do too was like make sure the security systems were working in vacant vacation houses and like all that.

Now, he was not happy with his life in Washington.

It was not everything he thought it would be.

It was not as exciting as he wanted it to be.

He wanted to be causing some pain and chaos, and he wasn't able to do that.

And he also was, like, missing Angelo because he...

It's weird. He's got a weird attachment there.

He does. And he was cheating on Kelly, like having affairs.

He was lying to her. He was just like weird and fucked up as he always was.

And finally around Christmas, she was like, get out you weirdo like you gotta get out of the house you're weird so he got that's it you're just weird honestly just get out like there's a lot going on with you so he got pissed but he begged for another chance to Just give me one more chance.

I'd be like, what are we at? Where's the tally marks?

And she was like, fine, like whatever. But like, dude, I can't. anymore like I have a newborn like please just go away and so but he was pissed because he was like this isn't working out Like Washington isn't working out.

Washington is like fucking me over and I'm pissed.

So now he's like, I'm going to fuck up Washington.

Like I fucked up L.A., ready to fuck up washington because he's like i'm bored i'm angry now i'm gonna get some excitement i didn't know that And he also had this weird thing that he was like, Washington took me from Angelo.

No. It took our bond away. Angelo hates you.

Angelo would have launched you into the sun.

And Angelo's also... the equivalent of a clipped toenail.

Like he is so disgusting and worthless. What is happening?

Angela doesn't hate you because you live in Washington.

Angela hates you because he hates you. Yeah, exactly.

You moved to Washington because he hates you.

Washington has nothing to do with this. Now, he had a perfect environment for what he wanted to do because, again, like I said, he was in charge. of security systems.

And he's also in charge of checking on vacant vacation homes.

Empty homes. So he has a place. So he decided he would lure women to an empty home and then rape and murder them.

He was like, perfect, I'm going to do this myself.

And that's really going along, too, with...

Kimberly Martin's murder. Yes. Because that was his whole plan all along.

So now it's almost like It manifested itself in a fucked up way.

He wants to show that that plan was going to work.

Yeah, and it's almost like a fuck you to Angelo.

Yeah, it wasn't his fault. He's gonna make it work by himself.

It was your fault. Right. So on January 9, 1979, he called someone he worked with at the hardware store before.

Her name was Karen Mandic, and originally her roommate Diane answered the phone.

So now he knows there's two women there.

So he tells Karen he would pay them both $100.

He's like, 100 bucks. Can you come house sit this vacation home for the night?

And he's like, the thing is, like, we're putting a security system, having it installed in the place, but it's not till tomorrow.

So for one night, it's going to be like, empty and kind of open.

So he said like, you know, why don't you bring your roommate Diane?

You guys stay for one night in this cool vacation house.

I'll pay you for it because you're taking your time and doing it.

That's like the best setup ever if it's real.

Exactly. And he was like, you know, just bring your roommate, you'll be fine.

So... They were like, okay, cool. That's a no-brainer, usually.

Yeah, awesome. So he set up the house. And he apparently...

He wanted it all to happen in the basement because he said that was like the best place for it.

So he laid it out like Angelo used to. He put the cord down there, everything.

He met them outside the house and asked Karen to walk in with him to check the lights.

And he told Diane, you stay out here, just make sure like the perimeter is fine.

Like I don't want to walk in there with no lights and have nobody out here.

So she was like, all right, I'll just stay by the car.

And inside he brought Karen down to the basement and immediately attacked her. and he put the cord right around her throat.

He did it so aggressively that he cut through her neck with the cord.

Oh my god. He strangled her to death in the basement.

He then went and got Diane, and as soon as she came in, threw her down the stairs and strangled her to death as well.

Whoa. He later admitted to raping them both, and he drove their bodies in Karen's car to a cul-de-sac.

And it was near a school, and he just left them in there.

Sorry to be gross, but when he admitted to raping them, was that post-mortem?

No, that's not like totally known. Because as we'll see later too during the trial and stuff, he contradicts himself. is very convoluted with what she's he goes back and forth yeah he said he did he sexually assaulted them i have no idea but it's like if pre or post or if he even did it right so the next day during his shift checking a vacation home He was arrested on charges of double homicide of Karen Mandick and Diane Wilder.

And how did they trace it to him? Because Karen had told her boyfriend about the house sitting job.

So it just traced right back to him. Because Diane had written down his name and number when he had called originally and she had answered.

Wow. So Kenny working alone doesn't work.

Nope, he needed Angela as the mastermind.

Because... Kenny wants to be the mastermind.

She told her boyfriend, hey, Kenny Bianchi from the hardware store has a job now as a security professional.

He wants me to go to this exact address.

He wants me to do this. And I'm going to do that.

And he called Diane earlier. Oh, and here's his name and number on a piece of paper.

It's so it makes me so sad, though, again, she took all the precautions like I'm going to be here.

This person called me. This is the address.

Exactly. That makes me so sad. But there's Kenny, and when they searched his home, they found shit tons of stolen things.

And they later found jewelry from the victims, particularly a turquoise ring that was stolen from Yolanda Washington, the first victim. and an Italian horn necklace stolen from Kimberly Martin.

Right. So he also got larceny charged on there too.

Good. The police in Bellingham talked to the LAPD, since he had a previous California address, And Salerno was the one to hear his name and say, that's the fucking guy.

Like, immediately. He was like, there he is.

We've already talked to him three times.

Like, what the fuck? Like, that's him. He denied everything.

For now. Now they talk to Kelly, you know, the mother of his child.

And she confirmed that the only friend Kenny really had in L.A. or really ever was Angelo Bono.

So they looked into Angelo and they saw that his address was at 703 East Colorado Street and and it was directly in the center of almost all of the scene locations.

Yep. Now, Grogan got surveillance immediately on Angelo because they couldn't just arrest him.

They have nothing. Right. But they also released Bianchi's photo to the media.

Oh, shit. And Jan Sims, who had saved that girl from the bus stop and had gone in there and they were like, go away, crazy lady.

She called again. And was like, remember me, bitches?

That's him. Like, that's him. No, she said.

I bet you thought you saw The Last of Me.

That's literally it. She was that meme. Yeah, she was.

She was. And then David Woods. who had saved Becky Spears from a life of being pimped out by Bianchi and blown up.

Yes, from part one, I think. Yes. He told the media about his experience freeing Becky Spears from Bianchi and Buono's clutches.

Oh. girl then they got sabra hannon back from phoenix and they interviewed Becky and Sabra at the police station and they told them fucking everything about Angelo. mother fucking circle bro so grogan and salerno's partner detective pete finnegan talked to angelo in his home And he let nothing out.

He was not going to admit anything. And he said obviously Bianchi was his cousin, but he was like, he's weird.

I don't really like him. I don't know a lot about him.

Yeah, sure. And they're like, okay. Now in Washington, Bianchi was facing the death penalty because Washington had the death penalty.

If they got him on those two murders, they were going to be able to do it.

So they were going to offer him a plea deal.

They were like, if you talk about the hillside stranglings and Angela, like, we can do something for you.

Yeah. Yeah. At this point, it wasn't totally laid out.

It will be later. During a second interview with Angelo at his home, because they just kept showing up, And being like, hey, Angela, you want to talk?

Bet you thought you'd seen the last of me.

Literally. But now it's like Grogan and Salerno doing it.

At one point, I think it was during the second interview at his home, Grogan like lost his temper.

Oh. And literally had Angelo up by his collar and like screamed every little thing he did, everything they knew, like was like... you fucker like we're gonna get you he like named every victim because he was like I know that you did this to Lauren Wagner.

I know you did this to Christina Weckler.

I know you did this. Like he laid out like I know the gas.

I know the this. I know the that. And Angela wouldn't buy a tour.

And they said, though, that he looked fine. fucking terrified for the first and only time when that was happening was like, It was just like an oh shit moment.

Yeah, he scared the shit out of that little rat.

I love that. That's like a... In the little things.

Yeah, when they, like, lose it and... Grogan said, obviously he's like, you shouldn't lose your temper like that, it's not your fault.

But he said it was also kind of calculated because he was like, I knew that was the moment.

If I was gonna lose it, that was the moment to do it.

So he's like, it was calculated, but not calculated.

And in a line of work like that, I mean, you're bound to lose it a couple times in your career.

Especially with people like this. Yeah, like little fucking spineless assholes.

Barbara Hannon and Becky Spears. Told them everything.

Teenage girls have just told them the horrific things that this man has done to them.

Yeah. Yeah, it would be hard, especially as a father of a teenage daughter, which he was.

Right. So they read him his rights to be arrested.

And he said he would he was like, you know what, because they were just like, we're going to take you in. like to talk to you if you're not going to talk to us out here we'll take you in yeah so they're reading him his rights and he's like no i'll talk without a lawyer like you don't have to bring me in So they were like, all right.

So he was like, all right, I went to the Tamarin departments where Kenny lived a couple of times.

But he was like, I didn't do anything like that.

And he kept saying that he was like, oh, he was living with that fat bitch.

Nice. And it's like... Oh, the pregnant one?

And they were like, his pregnant girlfriend?

And he was like, yeah, whatever. And it's like...

Either way, you're a horror show buddy. Either way, pregnant or not, what the fuck is wrong with you?

And if she wasn't, like... you're a murderer like that's what oh that murdering asshole he's a horror show right He also confirmed the Mike Ryan name connection.

He denied having a badge himself, but said he did have handcuffs for different reasons, but he threw them away because they broke.

And he said he can't swear to it, but Kenny may have had a badge.

So now he's starting to throw him under the bus.

They showed him photos of each victim. Like every single one with the name.

Good. And every time he would just look at it and go, I saw her on TV.

I saw her on TV. And he did say he thought Kenny could possibly be one of the hillside murderers.

Because he knows that. Like, what? They also talk to Angelo's ex-wife, Candy. who he, like Mary Catherine, who he had like brutalized during their marriage.

And she said she fully believed he would kill anyone even his own child for going against him.

She was like, oh, he has zero limits, like 100%.

He could be it. Yeah. And she told them everything.

She mentioned how like the cow patch dump site. where Dolores and Sonia were put, was a place he often took the family for picnics.

What? What the fuck? Everything started coming out.

They talked to Artie Ford, the actor, who he was a roommate with.

Yeah. Who said the story about the gas thing, how he wanted to leave the gas going so Candy would light a cigarette and blow up.

Right. that he didn't give a shit if his kids were in the house either.

He also relayed finally the fact that Angelo said he raped his own stepdaughter and his sons.

That's terrible. Meanwhile, in Washington...

They're setting up an appointment with Dr. Donald T. Lund He was the author of Murder and Madness and he was also a professor at Stanford University.

They want him to talk to Kenny. Okay. Because...

Kenny now, remember, throughout his whole, like, you know, scam-filled career.

He's always wanted something in psychology.

He wanted to be a psychologist. He did. He...

Took a lot of books out. He would study himself.

Yeah. He did a lot of reading on psychology.

They found shit tons of books in his possession about psychology. psychology so bizarre to me so I think in his mind right then he was like I can get an insanity defense I know I know what to do I know what to look for.

And he probably did. In fact, he did a pretty good job up until a point.

So... Two days before this meeting is set, Kenny's watching television because you could watch television in jail.

And he saw a TV movie, Sybil, which is about multiple personality issues. in a criminal case.

Yeah. And he used this as inspiration. Oh, And he decided he would play that he had multiple personality disorder to get the insanity defense.

So soon under hypnosis, he created a personality called Steve.

Stop. Steve was the aggressive one. He was the one who murdered everybody.

Steve was so mean, Steve wanted to get rid of Kenny, all of that.

And at one point when asked if he had ever harmed an animal, because they were trying to figure out like, you know, Are you a bed wetter?

Did you light fires? Did you harm animals?

Have you been dropped on your head? He was... outraged that they asked him that.

He went on and on about his love for animals, how He had a cat once in his car and he felt awful for weeks.

And he almost cried. He was like, oh my God, I can't imagine hurting an animal.

Like, I love animals. How dare you ask me that?

Then they looked in his file and they saw that once he had killed a cat and left it on his neighbor's front porch as a Halloween prank. yeah so that was wrong oh i hate that no as steve remember he gave them everything He admitted to everything as Steve.

He said he gave details. everything, but they couldn't arrest him.

They couldn't arrest, or excuse me, they couldn't arrest Angelo.

Because as Steve, Kenny's like, yeah, we did all this.

Angelo did this with me. Angelo did this.

I did this. Angelo did this. I did this.

They already have Kenny, obviously. They can't arrest Angelo because this is another personality that is telling a story.

There's no proof. Right. So he's literally sitting there being like, Angelo did this and they can't do anything about it.

Shit. Which is like so, so they need the proof.

They need something that they can hold, that they can get them on.

Because they also didn't want to jump at this and fuck up the whole trial.

So they had to get something concrete. Good.

I'm glad that they didn't. Yeah, so they started talking to that neighbor, Beulah Stouffer.

I think it's Beulah or Bella. I don't know which one.

I'm going to say both. across the street from Lauren Wagner's home again, and she was able to pick not only Kenny, but Angelo. out of a photo lineup as the two men she saw that night.

That'll do it now. Now another expert was brought in to look at Kenny for this multiple personality thing.

His name was Dr. Ralph Allison. He was like an expert in that field.

He did a couple of interviews and tests on Bianchi and he concluded that he was legally insane.

Because he did all of these interviews with him as Steve.

He put him under hypnosis. You know, he was like, no, he's claiming he had a childhood friend and that's what Steve was and now he's evolved into this terrible thing.

But he initially was like, there's so much in the two books I read that I'll link that you need to read because it's fascinating.

But it's basically like... The way they looked at it, if it was real or not, is like you would have this childhood... imaginary friend that was born out of trauma and it was there to protect you. and it appeared when you needed it to.

Yeah, mine was Luke Skywalker. Exactly. Literally.

But then when you have multiple personality disorder, that imaginary friend will transfer into a hostile entity that wants to do bad things and wants to take you over.

And Bianchi knew this because he's read all his psychology books.

He knows what this is. I've actually never heard of that.

He knows how this works. So he's read that, so he was able to do what needed to be done to make it seem like he was really a perfect case yeah so i also need to point out i need to point out that yours was naughty martha People need to know that.

Mine was naughty Martha, my imaginary friend.

She never turned hostile, though. She always just helped me.

And mine wasn't born out of trauma. It was literally like I was doing bad shit and I needed to blame it on someone. someone so i blamed it on naughty martha i just love that naughty martha like just naughty martha that's iconic yeah So this whole insanity thing was bullshit.

He was faking. It was very clear, but he was fooling the experts.

Yeah. And he also was sending Kelly letters and recording himself literally talking in baby talk to his son, Ryan.

And he was saying how he like didn't want his son to not know who he was.

So he was pulling like... Like people didn't know, like, I still don't know what he is because he's like.

What? He has these weird facets of himself that he like latches on to.

And they're not real, but he really wants them to be real.

Like he really wants to be this like doting dad.

So he's pretending to be from prison. It's just really bizarre.

I think he's just sick and twisted. There's a lot going on.

But I don't think he has multiple personality disorder.

Well, don't worry, he didn't. So Salerno got a hold of the videotapes of him under hypnosis as Steve.

Like they sent them to the LAPD so they could see what they were working on. because they're also allowed to send their experts because they think they're part of this investigation.

Can I interrupt you for just a quick second?

If he's under... What's it called? Sorry, I just lost my train of thought.

How does he know to be Steve? Because, oh, that was the other part of it.

So because he's read so much about this He knows that there's something where it's like if you don't want to be hypnotized, you're not going to be hypnotized.

So when he was getting ready to go under hypnosis, he just wouldn't.

He would just block it out. Okay. Because if you don't want to be hypnotized, you can block yourself from being hypnotized.

Gotcha. You have to be in a state of mind to accept it.

Okay. So he would just block it and pretend to be hypnotized, which they catch him in later.

Ah, gotcha. So there, no, no problem. But Salerno got a hold of these tapes of the hypnosis and everything.

And they were all like, he's bullshitting.

Like this is very clearly bullshit. And in one of the sessions, Dr. Allison asked about the other personality Steve's last name.

She was like, what's what's your last name?

And he like mumbled something no one could hear.

So they just didn't press it further. Well, Salerno kept playing it because he was like, he said something.

And then he was like, so he kept playing it, kept playing it.

And then he was like. what do you guys hear?

Because I hear something. And they were all listening to it and they were like, walker.

I hear walker. Well, this was traced back to a scam Bianchi had pulled.

He had set up a fake psychology office before leaving LA, and he had tried to get someone who was actually educated in psychology to work for him, a man named Steve Walker.

Why is he always just like pulling? He's like trying to pull a fast one on us. on all these people that quote unquote did him wrong.

And this is the stupidest thing he could have done. is use a real person's name as his alter ego, it proves that it's fake.

But everything he does is the stupidest thing.

So this man named Steve Walker had applied and he had used this to apply under his name. for a copy of Steve Walker's diploma.

And he had asked the school to give it to him without the name on it because he told them he had someone like a calligrapher that was going to write in the name because he wanted to display it in his office.

So he had obviously written his own name in there.

That was the whole point. But they checked into it and it became clear that Steve...

Walker was a real person he had scammed and he was too stupid to come up with an imaginary name to use. unreal so this salerno was like he said walker you dumbasses like he got caught for that like what And it's like, why would you even answer in the first place?

Most imaginary friends do not have a fucking last name.

Exactly. And why are you using them? Like there's a million different names you could have chosen.

Right. What the fuck? But it's like he can't think fast.

No, he can't. And it should be noted that multiple personality disorder was removed from the DSM. at one point and was replaced with dissociative identity disorder.

Gotcha. Just so you know. But back then, that's what it was called and that's what they were.

But those are two different things. But those are two different things now.

The other one, multiple personality disorder was removed.

Oh, so the prosecution decides they're like, okay, so in LA, they're like, we're sending our own doctor up there.

We're going to catch that motherfucker. Yeah.

So they send Dr. Mer... Dr. Orne up to Washington to test this diagnosis of multiple personality disorder.

Also, Elena is beaming. I love it. Because this is always the best part where you're like, get got, get got, get got, get got.

I love when they get fucked. Like, I know it's amazing.

And I just love your face right now. I know.

I'm like sitting up. I'm like, all right, Because I don't know what happened.

So I'm like, yeah, like, yeah. Like, I'm like eager.

And Elena's like, girl, girl, girl. And I'm like excited to tell you.

I'm like, wait until he fucks up. She's raising the actual roof right now.

I'm so excited. Fuck Kenny Bianchi. he's still alive i hope you can't listen but fuck you in the atmosphere oh my god what if they could that would be really fucked up and awful They do have access to computers sometimes.

But, like, fuck you through the atmosphere.

Yeah, fuck off. So he tested Bianchi with two tests.

One was the double hallucination test. He put Bianchi under... hypnosis, which he knew he was not going under hypnosis.

And he asked Bianchi if he saw his attorney, whose name was Dean Brett, sitting next to him.

And Dean Brett was not there. He was just asking him to see if he was hallucinating someone.

And he was like, if you do see Dean Brett...

Will you greet him? Like shake his hand and greet him.

So he's like, sure. And he looks over and he's like, Dean!

Hey! and he shakes the imaginary person's hand he's he's making small talk with him he's like oh my going hey so cool to see you like full conversation with no one Now, most people will be like, oh, my God, that looks kind of insane.

Right. Well, then... the real Dean was told to walk in and Ken said, hey, how can Dean be in two places at once? and he stood and shook the real Dean's hand.

He immediately failed. If he was really under hypnosis, he would have never even blinked at the idea of a second Dean walking into it.

Because he wouldn't have noticed him in the room.

Yeah. Not even that, it just would have been a continuous hallucination.

There's no break in the hallucination. You wouldn't go like...

Oh, so that Dean's not real? That Dean's real?

Like, your mind wouldn't think that way under hypnosis.

You would just go... hey, there you are, so let's continue our conversation.

But instead he was like, there's two Deans?

Like, you wouldn't see two Deans. So they were like, you failed that test.

So the second test. Dr. Orne drew an imaginary circle on the back of Bianchi's hand while under hypnosis.

And he told him, you're going to feel pressure or touch anywhere outside of that circle.

But inside the circle, there will be nothing.

It will be numb. You won't feel it. So he told him, say yes.

If you feel the touch outside the circle and say no... for inside the circle.

He fell for that because even I'm right here knowing.

Well, here's the thing. Bianchi, however... said yes for Outside the Circle, but then he's thinking how you're thinking.

Oh, fuck. I got it wrong. And he said nothing.

For the inside. Because you wouldn't feel it, right?

Right. That's failing. Because if he was under hypnosis, he would have listened to the orders more. specifically, and he would have said no for Inside the Circle.

The whole point is you would have listened to the direct orders and followed them perfectly.

You wouldn't have created your own rules.

I've never been under hypnosis. Me neither.

It was like fascinating to me. That's really interesting.

So obviously this doesn't prove that he doesn't have it.

It proved that he is not he he's not under hypnosis.

He's lying about being hypnotized. Which in turn pretty much shows that he's bullshitting.

Now, Bianchi saw this, he knew it was happening, and he sees that he failed this.

So he's got to come up with something quick.

So he's like, oh, I have another alter ego.

His name is Billy. so then now like okay did he know a billy are we gonna find out I don't think we found the bill yet because they just didn't care enough at this point because they already knew that he had fucked up.

Now, when he first appeared as Steve... He had like taken cigarettes out because like Steve's badass, right?

So Steve smoked cigarettes. Chief and Sigs.

Not only that, but Steve ripped the filters off the cigarette before.

And when he came back as Ken... He was like, what?

Did someone rip the filters off my cigarette?

Like what? Like, he acted very like, oh, my God, who did that?

And they were like, Steve. And he was like, oh, Steve.

Like, acted like, what? But so he did that.

And he was like, oh, my God, I can never smoke. cigarettes without the filters.

That's such a Steve thing, obviously. Steve vibes.

Such Steve vibes. And then when Billy came... and was like, hi, I'm Billy.

I'm the third person here. Billy also took cigarettes out of his thing and ripped the filters off.

Because... He didn't know that the LAPD had seen the videotapes of when he was Steve doing it. and just treat these people too.

So he was like, I'll just do this same thing because it worked the first time. lazy ass motherfucker and I can't come up with one more different personality trait.

Literally like so Steve and Billy just do the exact same thing.

Like you could have done it. anything else you could have like picked up a pen and like chewed the cap exactly like you fucking idiot So they were like, this is a pretty clear indication that he's malignant.

That you is a liar. Like, it's not real.

So... It all fell apart, like further apart, when it was discovered that he had also, before this, tried to scam... scam a ton of different defenses for himself before the insanity plea.

He had tried to use women he had conned and charmed before. to be his alibis or promise them money from a forthcoming book that is definitely coming when they find him innocent.

In fact, Angie, the one who he had left the used condom on her doorknob, She wrote a fake alibi for him.

Wow. And then she broke down and confessed it was fake, like immediately.

She was probably just terrified. I think she was scared and just like really brainwashed and but she confessed it was faked and like felt horrible.

Well, and obviously to convince her that a book is coming, he has to convince her that he is going to be found innocent.

So if she doesn't help him, he's coming for her.

Yeah. So he also sent his own mother a fake letter.

And she said that this letter was written by Karen's boyfriend.

And it was Karen's boy, one of the two girls killed in Washington.

And that it was Karen's boyfriend confessing to the murders.

What? And he said he asked his mother to bring down that letter. to Washington and give it to police to get him out.

Where would she have even So she did, but she comes down and she confessed that it was fake.

Like, she brought it to them and was like, he did this.

And then she was like, he's been a liar since the day he was born.

Like, she was like, I don't know what to do with this.

So he was declared competent to stand trial because no longer was he legally insane.

Which I just think is the funniest chain of events that he tried to pull.

Like it's such, it's so ridiculous. Stunts and tricks. shows baby stunts and shows and he just failed drew's brother says that it's so ridiculous So he was offered another plea deal. and it was if he admitted to the Washington murders and some of the hillside strangling murders at least, and testify against Angelo Buono, he would get life in prison without the possibility of parole. but he would serve in California.

Okay. Which was good for him because otherwise he was going to walla walla.

Death penalty. And that's one of the scariest prisons ever. and he could also get the death penalty.

So during interrogation with Salerno, He confirmed the whole thing about the fuzz found on Judith Miller's eyes. how they had that one piece of white fuzz.

And he said, yeah, that's likely the upholstering foam that Angela used.

And they were like, oh shit, this has been sitting unidentified.

So that was a huge piece of evidence. And he admitted to stealing Kimberly Martin's necklace because he just liked it.

And he even offered up an additional piece of evidence about Christina Weckler. he mentioned a mark on her neck and they said, like, what mark on her neck?

And he was like, oh, you didn't see? Like, there's a needle mark on her neck.

We put the needle in her neck as well. Oh, fuck.

And they, neither they or the autopsy saw that.

And so then they looked at the autopsy photos and they were like, you can see it.

It's there. Like, we just didn't see it because we weren't looking for it.

Wonder if that guy got in trouble. I know.

I was like, ooh, that's not good. Kind of a big thing to miss.

He also revealed the gassing, and he described Angelo's gas pipe and stove in detail.

Wow. He said, didn't you see the mark on her neck where we pressed the pipe against her?

And they were like, well, yeah, but like... what and they were like he was like yeah it was kind of like a bruise that was shaped like this and they were like Yep, that's exactly it.

So they were like, well, you're really like nailing yourself.

Now, he said during this interview that And this is like so fucked up.

He said, quote, I tried very hard to get a feel for what was going on, the reasons for everything taking place.

Basically the motivation or the emotions being felt.

I've always felt great anger. I mean, a really intense, horrifying, just cut loose anger.

So one is, was... to get me, I don't know, just to get me.

There was a sexual arousal with having sex, knowing that the end product is going to be killing itself.

Another is, this is terrible, and no disrespect to the girls.

No witnesses. He said no disrespect to the girls that he murdered and raped and dumped.

What? No disrespect to the girls, but there were no witnesses.

That's why I did it. Like I didn't want witnesses.

But no disrespect to them. First of all, that doesn't even like need to be said right there because you clearly don't respect them, it also just doesn't fit in that statement.

It's just weird. No disrespect to them, but I had to kill them because I didn't want witnesses.

No disrespect. No disrespect. What? I feel like that's pretty disrespectful.

I feel like your entire existence is pretty disrespectful.

Your whole operation is pretty disrespectful, man.

Now, Angelo was finally arrested on October 22nd. so Bianchi had been brought into court in front of a judge as Bianchi and not as Steve or Billy and and finally made the statement that Angelo Buono was his accomplice.

So they were able to take that along with all the other evidence now.

Jesus. Now, when they found Angelo's wallet when they picked him up, he had said, I don't have a police badge.

Like I've never had, remember he said I like had, I have handcuffs, but it's for other things.

But I've never had that. When they found his wallet, there was a place in it where nothing was there, but there was a perfect outline of a badge.

And pinholes where it had clearly been stuck.

You motherfucking dumbass. And it was literally the perfect piece of evidence because he denied it.

Why would he deny it? Right. Now, he confessed too while he was in jail to another prisoner while waiting trial, but then he denied it later.

Yeah. But the language he used was specific to Angela's way of speaking because he had like very specific things he would say all the time.

And this guy was like, he literally. said this, and it's exactly what he would have said.

Now, June 1980... Ken gets a letter because he's waiting.

He's waiting in jail, waiting to testify against Angelo.

His picture's been everywhere. This has been all over the news.

So he's getting letters, of course, from these idiots who are like, oh, my God, I love you.

Like, no. I will never fucking understand that.

And he gets a letter from... 24-year-old Veronica Compton, who is a Ryder.

Now you can't see me, but my fingers are doing air bunnies over Ryder.

She wrote Ken... This, quote, Ken, you don't know me, but I would like to visit you.

My name is Verlin. That's her pen name.

Ver-Lin is her pen name. Her middle name is definitely Lynn, isn't it?

I am a playwright. And I am currently writing a fictional play entitled The Mutilated Cutter.

The story is about a female mass murderer.

Veronica Lynn Compton. And she also asked if he would help her make the character more believable.

She wanted to like pick his brain. She was also an aspiring actress and a kook.

And she... She had dark hair. She was like beautiful, like very pretty.

And according to Darcy O'Brien's book, She said, quote, the heroine, and this is a quote from his book.

The heroine she planned to play for herself would strangle a female victim... and then traumatize the corpse's vagina with a specifically designed hollow dildo through which semen previously collected for the purpose would be put. thereby foiling and thwarting the fail-dominated oppressive forces of society and law. that was what her play was that sounds like it'll be a great a great play But many people will definitely come out for that.

For sure. Go fuck yourself. So they began writing each other and it was like immediately it was like very.

Very sexually charged and like very intense.

And she was in like falling in love with him.

And he was just like, how can I use you?

Yeah. Eventually they had all these visits. and they would get weird, and one of the messages that she sent him, I just have to read to you because it's so wild.

She sent a letter to him and it said, my dearest, What a wonderful sex-filled night I had.

It was so exciting. And the man was so mysterious. took a long, hot bath at my house, and he looked so tempting as the steam rolled off his body.

You will never guess who it is. All night he stayed here with me.

I can't tell you how magnificent it was.

It was simply outrageous. You know him well.

In fact, you know him very, very well. Do you want to guess?

Forget it. You can't in a thousand years.

You know why? I will tell you. Because my lover was here in spirit, not in body.

It was a dream, my precious, a dream about you.

Do you realize it's only 51 and a half hours until we see each other?

Did I excite you with the curiosity in the beginning of the letter?

Veronica. I have to go. There's other places I need to be.

There's every other place I have to be. I actually have...

An Uber awaiting me outside for anything else.

They had many visits and they also realized that they shared a love for necrophilia.

So that's fun. So he was like, how can I use this crazy person?

And by the way, I am doing a full-ass other episode about Veronica Compton and the other serial killer that she attached herself to.

Because one, that other serial killer is wild and I've never heard of him.

And two, her story with this stuff is just so insane.

It needs another... Can we do that next?

We need to, I feel. Okay, awesome. So she told him she wanted to murder someone.

She was like, I want to murder a woman. Let me do that for you.

And she told him, great. She was like, you know what?

Like, let's make this work for me. Yeah.

So he was like, hey, why don't you go to Bellingham, Washington? and kill a woman and then leave semen in that woman to free him so that they would think that the wrong guy was in jail.

Like, kill her in a way that will look like the Hillside Strangler. also and then leave semen so they're like whoa you already confessed to everything and can like said angelo did it and they have a bunch of evidence oh yeah but he just he just pulls that back all the time He'll just be like, oh, no.

Nope, don't remember that at all, actually.

Thank you. It doesn't work out for him well in the end, though.

Yeah. So because remember, his plea deal is based on if he admits to all this and also if he truthfully testifies against angelo buono which he fails at So they also worked out alibis with her for each of the Hillside Strangler days.

So he was going to be with her for all those days, so Angela would have to take the fall for all of them.

So, he knew that he and Angelo, which is strange, they were both non-secretors.

Which we've been over before. Yeah, he knew that because I think they had been like tested somehow.

Okay. And I don't know if it had come off in, like, I'm sure it was probably leaked at some point in the media, maybe.

Yeah. So, what he did was he masturbated into the finger of a rubber glove.

Sealed the top with gum and tied it with a string that he got from a rosary, which he stripped the beads off of.

Wow, what an ass. Yeah. He then shoved it into a poetry book and gave it to her on a visit.

So next time she was going to find a young girl that fit the bill, of the Hillside Strangler victims, she could insert that semen into this girl, it would come out as non-secreter semen, which is only 20% of the population and is the hillside strangler.

Happens to be both of them. Isn't that crazy?

Only 20% of the population and it's the two of these fuckers?

Exactly. And so he's like, do that. Put the semen in the scene and then leave her in a car exactly like Karen and Diane.

Boom. They're going to think they have the wrong guy, which he's stupid to even think this is the work.

Was the Golden State Killer a non-secreter?

I think he was actually. I think he was.

Yeah. That's interesting. California. I know.

That's weird. So, September 16th, 1980, at the Coconut Grove Bar in Bellingham, Veronica went in with a blonde wig.

She was brunette. in a fake pregnant belly because she figured it would be less threatening and it would make people trust her.

So she was hopped up on cocaine as well.

And she met a woman and they went back to the motel, which was the Shangri-La Motel.

Now, she got this woman back to the motel because she had said she was pregnant and abandoned.

Like she was like crying and like this woman was like, I feel so bad.

So she preyed on somebody's confidence. Yeah.

So she was like, you know what, I'll absolutely come and like just chat with you and like make you feel better.

Well, she went to the bathroom and then she snuck up behind her and tried to strangle her with a cord. well this girl fought back and ran the fuck out of there like got out yeah so that's no good for her Now, the woman went right to police.

And meanwhile, Veronica had called the police herself pretending to be a real, the real strangler, like using a voice and shit and being like, ha ha ha, you have the wrong man.

Shut up. The actual fuck up. Yes. And they knew she had visited him all the time, so she was pretty easy to suspect.

Like they knew it was her. The cocaine will get you every time.

And she was arrested. And Bianchi dropped her like a hot potato because she was no longer useful to him.

And again, I'm covering her next because we got to get into like the real real with her, but I don't have time for that right now.

Ain't nobody got time for that. We got to focus on Bianchi and Buono here, but like, we're going there.

Next episode, because I need it. So Bianchi decided to change his story again.

Because this is what he's doing. Because that didn't work.

I love that he also thinks this is going to make him remain credible.

Oh yeah, you can just keep changing it up.

And now he's blaming Angelo for everything.

He doesn't remember one damn thing he did.

That's not okay. You're family. Yeah. You're familia.

You're familia. So Angelo's trial was bonkers.

It was throughout 1982. There were trips to the dump sites.

They took like the... Yeah, and multiple witnesses that were supposed to help the defense, but actually made the... for them, which is funny.

Sabra Hannon was brought back and she was psyched to send them to prison like she was like fuck yeah talk about fucking oh she couldn't she couldn't revenge She was working as a dental hygienist at the time.

She was married and living in Phoenix, which I was like, get it. she's also beautiful I saw a photo of her and I was like stunning wow Becky Spears, she came on the stands as well.

She was very affected and was clearly still suffering from the ordeal she had been through but she testified and also a woman named cheryl burke also testified Because she happened to be in the Hollywood Public Library the evening that Kimberly Martin was killed.

Whoa. While Kenny was on the phone trying to arrange the meeting, Kenny... or excuse me, Angelo had gone into the library while he was on the phone and was intentionally stalking and leering at this woman in the stacks for fun.

Oh. And he scared her so much that she remembered him like perfectly.

Wow. And the woman was Cheryl Burke. And she was able to identify him and she was like, he's a predator.

Like that was predatory what he did to me that night.

She was like, I didn't even want to go back to the library after it.

So he thought he was having fun. How do you make the library unsafe for someone?

And it fucked over himself. Catherine Laurie also testified about her near encounter with them the Peter Laurie's daughter yup uh Also, for Angelo's birthday in October, this is wild.

He had a defense attorney that was a woman, and they did that to... to appeal to the jury.

Of course. Like, look, there's a woman defending him.

I could never lie. Her name was Catherine Mader.

And she was like real fucked in my opinion.

She was like way too attached. Like she like seemed like she was like charmed by him.

Okay. So for his birthday, she wanted to have a birthday cake delivered to him.

She had it delivered to him the first year he was in prison.

And the second time they were like, no. And they were like, how do I know you're not going to put like a shiv in there? right like you can't just like send him a fucking like what no and share response with something along the lines of like aww He's going to have to celebrate his birthday without a cake.

That's a shame. And I guess someone nearby was like, well, look at it this way.

10 women will never celebrate their birthdays again.

Ever again. does that make you feel better?

Like at least he can get fucking Twinkies from the commissary.

Does that help you sleep at night? Suck my dick, lady lady like are you fucking kidding me we're supposed to feel bad for this guy like what After Sabra Hannon and Becky Spears got up there and said what he did to them.

And she's like, he needs cake. He doesn't get cake though.

Like fuck right off. I hope you never get cake. right in her closing argument she said she started it with there is a core of goodness in Mr. Bono is there yeah a core of humanity So during certain arguments also that like the other side was making, she would laugh out loud, she would make gestures, and at one point she was filing and clipping her nails while they were talking.

Until the judge had to like yell at her.

I was going to say to the judge, say something.

Oh, several times. She was almost kicked off for her behavior.

I wish she was. And at the time, the trials were the long, this trial was the longest in American history at the time.

It took two full years. The jury took nine days deliberating and finally on October 31st, 1983, they came to the conclusion that Angelo Buono was guilty. of all nine, nine, not 10, counts of murder.

He was not... proven guilty on Yolanda Washington's murder the first one.

They didn't have enough time to it. Oh.

They tried to. They tried to have them go back and deliberate again.

They just couldn't. Wouldn't you think that circumstantially, like, if he's convicted of nine other murders, he probably did that other first one?

But he got all nine. He was given life without parole in Calipatria State Prison, which is in California.

I think it's also really shitty for her family that they didn't do that.

Yeah, well, that's what they were trying to do because they were like, for the like come on like she deserves that yeah but so the judge ronald george I love what he had to say because he was given life without the possibility of parole, not the death penalty, obviously.

Mm-hmm. And what he said was, the ultimate justification for any punishment is that it It is emphatic denunciation by the community of a crime.

And there are some murders which demand the most emphatic denunciation of all. namely the death penalty.

In view of the jury's mercy in this verdict, I am, of course, without authority to impose any greater punishment.

However, I would not have the slightest reluctance to impose the death penalty in this case were it within my power to do so."

If ever there was a case where the death penalty is appropriate, this is that case.

Angelo Buono and Kenneth Bianchi slowly squeezed out of their victims their last breath of air and their promise of a future life.

And all for what? The momentary sadistic thrill of enjoying a brief perverted sexual satisfaction? and the venting of their hatred for women.

And ironically, although these two defendants utilized almost every form of legalized execution against their victims.

The defendants have escaped any form of capital punishment.

Bianchi subjected various of their murder victims to the administration of lethal gas, electrocution, strangulation by rope, and lethal hypodermic injection.

Yet the two defendants are destined to spend their lives in prison, housed, fed, and clothed at taxpayer expense. better cared for than some of the destitute law-abiding members of our community.

Yeah, go off. Which like... Whoa. And when he puts it like that, when he says, ironically, they used... administration of lethal gas, electrocution, strangulation by rope, and hypodermic injection, all forms of capital punishment, but they are not receiving it themselves.

Yeah, that's wild. My death penalty stance is like a blurry area.

Yeah, me too. I don't lean. And I lean, honestly, recently, I think...

By doing this podcast, weirdly, and the research I've done, I lean more towards against.

Mm-hmm. But that is a brilliant argument.

It is. It's a brilliant argument. It really is.

I'm like perfectly in the middle every single time.

I'm still in the gray area, but I'm... starting to tilt because there are cases where exactly that's why i'm like it's a whole nother show it is that's a whole nother show but it but it is funny that like by doing this podcast my My stance seems to have evolved, which is fun, I guess.

That's a good thing that, like, I'm... Well, it's because you're educating yourself on the subject matter.

Yeah, I hope that more people will, like, think it through, you know? like regardless of what side you stand on.

Right. So He said at the end of this, I am sure Mr. Buono, Mr. Bianchi, that you will probably only get your thrills reliving over and over again the torturing and murdering of your victims. being incapable, as I believe you to be, of ever feeling any remorse.

So he was just like, fuck off. Now, after this, Sabra Hannon especially called and thanked police and lawyers who made this all possible.

She was like, I can't thank you enough. she said i can finally move on with my life and like yeah because he's gone like he'll be in prison that's all she probably looked over her shoulder for yeah so long exactly Angelo Buono died of a heart attack in prison after only serving 19 years.

Apparently, he never left his cell the first year because not even to take a walk because he was so scared of being killed or beaten by inmates.

Wow. And he was not a favorite. They should have made him take a walk.

I know. They should have forced him to walk.

But October 21st, 1983, Kenny... who again had been told that if he pled and testified truthfully against his cousin that he would spend his time in California. and specifically not in Walla Walla in Washington, because brutal, he was sent directly to Walla Walla for life without parole.

He was like, because he did not... abide by his plea deal.

Washington will haunt him forever. because he went on that stand and he did everything he could do to fuck with that, with his confession. with the narrative, he lied, he turned things around, he would give contradictory statements.

He fucked around. Fucked around. Yeah, you don't get your plea deal.

Fuck around. A deal is a deal. And he saw.

Fuck around and see. Yeah. So he was sent to Washington.

And he was also sentenced to life in California for the Strangler murder, but he is spending it in Washington.

Good. I love that. He's still there. He tried to legally change his name to Anthony D'Amato and then Nicholas Fontana.

Why though? Because he knew that because he's probably getting his ass kicked all the time.

Because he's a fucking, like he killed and raped children.

But it's like. And women. Do you not realize that like everybody. will still know who you are well he thinks newer people will come in and they won't know like he like the older people won't be like that's who that is yeah like he's also just an idiot like He got married too, huh?

Yep. So in 1986, he married Christine Kazuka.

I believe it is. Or no, excuse me, that's Buono.

In 1986, Angelo married again. He married Christine Kazuka.

But in 1989, Bianchi married Shirley Book. which was a pen pal.

She also was interested, she was involved with Ted Bundy. when he was behind bars at one point.

So that's just like her thing. Yeah, you know.

Everybody's got their thing. He tried to get conjugal visits for them in 1990, but he was denied.

You think that as like... Okay. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

He was also denied parole. I'm not even going to try to get it.

He was also denied parole on August 18th, 2010. he is going to be eligible to at least apply for parole in 2025. he not he not getting it but like but you're one of the hillside stranglers you will not do that Interesting little thing just to end on.

In 2007, Angelo's grandson... Christopher Buono shot his grandmother in the head who was Angelo's second wife, Mary Castillo.

Whoa. She lived. But he killed himself afterwards.

Whoa. Isn't that wild? Yeah. And again, we don't know if Kenny's the alphabet killer and I think he might be.

So yeah. I want to get into that soon. There was a palm print on one of the victims' necks that they were never able to identify, and it came back inconclusive as Kenny's, so.

Whoa. That's still there. Who knows? And that is even the abridged version.

Of the Hillside Stranglers. The four part abridged version.

That is me. Like, wittling it down to 30 pages.

That's insane. That was a lot. But I really, really, really encourage you. to read those books the one killing cousins and and The Hillside Strangler by Darcy O'Brien.

I'm going to link them again. I've linked them in everyone. go read them they're fascinating they have so many more transcripts they have so much more insight into like the behind the scenes stuff and All the psychiatrist stuff, more of the trial stuff.

Oh, there's tons of Steve stuff. Go read them because it's definitely worth it for this case because it is a wild one.

It really was. I had no idea how many ins and outs there were.

I didn't either. I did not. I had no idea.

I do now. So thank you for that. You're welcome.

I'm really glad that we're going somewhere haunted this next week.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we need to take a haunted detour.

But I'll take you right back with Veronica Compton.

I was going to say, I need that next. We need it.

I was going to say, I won't let you rest for a minute.

I need. I'll bring it in. Well, if you'd like to keep listening, you'll get that.

So we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. but not so weird that you randomly traded to steven you start smoking unfiltered cigarettes and then you know billy does the same thing because really you could just come up with another personality trait and just don't be as weird as Kenneth Bianchi or Angelo Bono or any of the defense attorneys or any of those people.

The lady that wanted to send him a cake, I mean.

Don't be that. Yeah, don't be that. Sit there and file your nails.

I'm like, come on, get the fuck out of here.

Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

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[The Conclusion of the Hillside Stranglers: Manipulation, Deception, and Justice]-[Episode 259: The Hillside Stranglers Part 3]

📋 Summary

The Final Chapter of a Reign of Terror

The Failed Diversion: The Murder of Kimberly Diane Martin

The Illusion of Power and the Reality of Incompetence

The Final Victim and the Collapse of a Partnership

The Washington Murders and the Insanity Defense

Justice Served

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript