Hey weirdos, it's Ash here, ready to share a little secret.
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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
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The sale ends 831. Don't miss it. Hey weirdos, I'm Elena.
I'm Ash. And this is Morbid. it is welcome friends family honored guests loved ones from afar i was gonna say near and far Near, far, with us, without us, in space, all that.
I just watched Ever After, so when I said... honored guests.
Like I was bringing that up. I like that.
Thanks. I appreciate you bringing Ever After into this.
Yeah, you know, you need some semblance of like levity.
Happiness. I suppose. Balance. Kind of. Question mark.
Sure. Why not? Well, I guess we can bring, like, something cool that happened this weekend, which is...
The dating game killer, Rodney Alcala, he died.
Dead. So he's gone. Deuces. That's cool.
He, in case you didn't, we're going to cover him eventually.
He's on our list. He always has been, but like...
Now he's gone. That's cool. He won the dating game in 1978.
Mm-hmm. And when he won the dating game, by the way, he had already been convicted in 1968 of raping an eight year old girl.
Oh, my God. So fucked up. That had already happened when he won and he was convicted.
And the girl that he was supposed to go on the date with, she was like, no.
She wouldn't go out with him because she said he was just really creepy.
And she was correct. Like definitely creepy, which is good for you for trusting your gut on that one.
Imagine being that girl. I would trust my instincts forever at that point.
I'd be like, oh, I know all. Yeah. Oh, I know all.
I am omniscient. I know. I know everything.
Yeah. Always trust your gut. It's going to tell you the right thing.
I'm telling you. Yeah. He was first sentenced to death in 1979 for the murder of a 12 year old.
Again, we're going to cover this story in like great detail on another episode uh but just so you know he killed a 12 year old yeah jesus And he was also convicted, I think he had like, he had multiple trials because there was like several, there was, he's a lot.
Mm-hmm. And in 2010, his DNA connected him to four other homicides in Orange County.
We loves DNA. And he was convicted of five first degree murder charges.
They think he's definitely connected to a ton of other ones.
After he was convicted, investigators actually released, this is so messed up, 100 photos of unidentified women and children found in his storage unit.
And they're trying to find out who they are because they think they might be for like other victims.
Of course. Yeah. That's so disturbing. And they found like some jewelry from some of the victims in that storage unit.
Fucking nasty trophies that he considered.
So horrifying. That story is really, really messed up.
But he's dead now. Bye. Whenever a serial killer dies in prison, you know, something great, like a kitty mouse or something.
Yeah, it's like a good thing to do. cheers to yeah it's just one of those things like all right well it happened naturally see you later yeah goodbye see ya So he was on death row.
He was on death row. So he was sentenced to death and the sentence was carried out.
By nature. By nature. So thank you, nature.
Thanks so much. Love you. So that's fun news.
Just wanted to give you that little like, whoop, whoop.
I saw on TikTok that the I-5 killer also died.
But then when I went to like make sure that was true.
Yeah, I didn't get any updates. Couldn't find if that actually was true or not, but like maybe two died in one day to be determined?
That'd be cool, but I didn't see anything about that. that if you guys did maybe we just missed it but i didn't find it i only saw it on tiktok and you know you can't get all your information from tiktok you can't get really You can get a little bit of information from TikTok, but not much.
I know. Jon always... I'll say like, yeah, I read an article that this happened and John is like, you mean you saw a TikTok?
Yeah, he's like, you didn't read an article, you saw it on TikTok. tiktok shut up there's like actual tiktoks about that now that john will send us yep But anyways, this one's not about TikTok, which is our last episode was, so.
There was. That's why this one's not. We just carried it into this episode in the beginning.
Yeah. Oh, and if you stay tuned for the end, we're going to give some Patreon shout outs. oh yes i totally we are back on our bullshit guys we just had to get it all together back on our bullshit But hang out after the story and we'll do some shout outs.
We actually have a Patreon Hall of Fame now, which is just like...
Look at that. If you've been a Patreon for a while, we just love you.
We're going to announce you in the Hall of Fame, so get ready.
We should get a special sound effect for that.
Oh, we should. You know what? I'll find one.
I'll find one for you. Love that. Thanks.
So... If you clicked on this episode, you know today that we are talking about Betty Page.
Hell yeah. And you're probably like, why?
Why though? Because it's a little different and you know, it's not really like anything we've ever covered before.
Because I've covered a lot of the old Hollywood starlets and the true crime surrounding their deaths.
You love an old Hollywood moida. I love old Hollywood.
As Spencer Henry would say. so much, but this one's a little different than our typical Hollywood starlet death kind of thing that I cover.
I think the reason that I find Betty Page so interesting is because her entire life is surrounded with this mysterious vibe.
We're going to find out later. She literally just disappeared from the public eye for like many years. and then returned and she was somehow more famous than she ever was before.
That's legendary. It really is. And then history kind of repeated itself a little bit over again when she died.
Let's get into the like dichotomy that is Betty Page.
Let's get into it. She's wild. Let's open it up.
Let's go. She was born on April 22nd, 1923.
What does that make her? Oh, fuck you. Sorry, you just always are like that.
Hold on. I think either a Leo or... Leo question mark?
I'm probably so wrong. You're always wrong and it's just my favorite.
I know. It's kind of fun now, just to be wrong.
That's why I was hoping you would just say a zodiac sign.
Fuck me, she's a Taurus. But when does Leo season end?
Leo season, just coming at you live. Coming at you live with this Zodiac conundrum.
Yeah, no, I don't know why I thought that.
It ends on August 22nd. I love, I love it.
I love it. I never want you to know the Zodiac.
I know my Zodiac and I know cancer because it's right after me.
I never want you to know it. I guess I should have known Taurus season two because it's right before me.
That's all right. Yeah, fuck me, right? I have many books about this and I'm always reading them.
No, I'm never memorizing. Don't ever learn it, please.
Never learn a new skill set. It's like my favorite thing.
So what did I say she was? A Taurus? She's a Taurus.
That makes sense. Yeah. Um, Yeah, so she was born April during tourist season in 1923, Kingsport, Tennessee.
Her parents were Walter Roy and Edna May Page.
Walter and Edna. Yeah, you would think that they would be a cute couple, but...
Bummer. Don't get so excited. Bummer. Your face was just... I had to let you know.
It looked... Your face was very excited.
Now, Betty was the oldest of six children.
She had three brothers and two sisters so this family had pattern power.
They were like boy, boy, boy, girl, girl, girl.
They moved around a lot, this family, in the early years because Betty's father was always moving in between jobs and looking for work. probably because he sucked and probably got, like, I don't know this to be true at all, but I feel like he got let go a lot.
Maybe. He might have, yeah. You know, out of work for him to do.
Yeah. Yeah. Walter went by his middle name.
He went by Roy. So Roy and Edna decided to call it quits when Betty was only 10 years old.
They had an incredibly tumultuous relationship.
And the divorce was really only the beginning slash middle of this tumultuous relationship.
That sucks. Yeah, Betty's family was very poor and she later said that she would have been lucky if there was an orange in her Christmas stocking.
Oh. Like that's so sad. That breaks my heart.
Now at one point, I think it was after the divorce.
Betty's father actually was arrested for stealing a cop car that he was just going to drive across the country.
Oh. He thought that he was going to steal a cop car and drive it across the country.
As not cop. I want to be part of that planning session.
You don't because that makes you an accessory.
What was that brainstorming session he had?
I don't know. I just want to be like a fly on the wall for it.
Like I want to know what was going to happen.
Fly on the wall. Yeah. I don't want to be like. an accomplice i just want to be a fly you're like i wasn't even going to help him i was not going to help him i just want to watch I know.
I don't really know what the goal was there, but he got arrested.
He did? For that. Wow. Which is, you will.
So don't do that. But when he was let out of prison, Betty's mom allowed him to come back and live with the family while he got on his feet, which... was confusing because during this time, Betty and her younger sister were sent to an orphanage for a year. oh yeah which seems like an odd choice to send your children away instead of like your criminal ex-husband but who am I to judge wow now So looking into this, it's hard to say what the exact reasoning is, but two things stand out in my mind, at least.
Because Betty later spoke about how her mother never wanted girls.
She never wanted to have dogs. She said... Betty said...
All I ever wanted was a mother who paid attention to me.
She didn't want girls. She thought we were trouble.
When I started menstruating at age 13 I thought I was dying because she never taught me anything about that.
Oh, my God. So she like didn't like she thought she was like bleeding out.
Oh, that's horrific. So I think that could definitely be one of the reasons why she sent two of the three girls away.
But the other reason, and this is a trigger warning for abuse, the other reason is that Betty, and to Betty's knowledge, both of her younger sisters were being molested by their father.
So Betty was molested and she believes her younger sisters were too.
What the hell? So I don't know if maybe the mom was like, I need to send them away so this doesn't happen to them while he's here.
Send him away. Why did you accept him? And then there would have been one other daughter in the house.
Yeah, he should be punished, not anybody else.
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It's like, wow, fuck all these people. Fuck everyone involved.
Like, damn. Now, so with all that chaos going on in the early years of her life, you would think high school would have been a fucking nightmare for Betty, but not at all. she went to high school in Nashville and she was known by her teachers as an amazing student good for her her with great ambitions a lot of people described her as competitive get it She was on the debate team.
Hell yeah, she was. She was the mascot for the ROTC.
You betcha. She won homecoming queen. Oh, I voted for her.
She was voted most likely to succeed. I wrote her in.
I wrote her in. And her GPA was just a few points away from earning her a valedictorian spot. and a scholarship to Vanderbilt.
Fuck those points. We don't need them. Fuck those points.
She did, though, make Salutatorian when she graduated in 1941, and that spot earned her a scholarship to the Peabody College for Teachers.
Wow. Or potentially Peabody, but I don't say it like that.
Because we're from Massachusetts and it's Peabody.
Exactly. Wow. Get it, Betty. So with all of that going on, like sent to an orphanage, going through an insanely traumatic time with your father being very poor to the point where you only are getting fruit in your Christmas stocking To do all of those things and succeed in that way, wow.
What an icon. An actual icon. Like that is like really persevering.
It is. The worst shit you can possibly do.
Like quite literally. Now she didn't like teaching very much.
Like I said, so she went to the college and she like figured it out.
She was like, okay, I'll be a teacher. But she was like, I actually fucking hate this because he couldn't get her class under control.
And it was mostly because the boys were always like fawning over her or just like. really saying gross things to her because she was beautiful, you know?
And Betty's like, no. not she's like this is too far too much for me not for me nah dog it's a no from me So she tried her hand at secretarial work, but she also was like, yeah, this fucking sucks.
And, you know, all the while she had these dreams of moving out to California because...
This was like that day, you know, like that time period where it was like.
You go to California, you get discovered.
Your whole life's going to be amazing. Oh, yeah.
You're going to be a star, baby. A star is born.
Just cut those bangs. You're going to be a star.
I know. And I actually have a fun tidbit about those things that I never knew.
So, but before we get there... She and her husband, actually, I believe she married her high school sweetheart.
His name was Billy Neal. So they got married.
And in the early 40s, together, they moved to Southern California.
When they were sent or when they moved out there, Billy was sent to fight in World War II.
And while he was away, Betty entered herself in some beauty competitions and took acting and speech classes because she was like, that's the. way I'm going to get discovered.
Hell yeah. Let's get it. She quick realized though that if she wanted any part on screen she was gonna have to lose her thick accent she had a like wildly thick southern accent that people referred to as corn pone thick.
What? Have you ever heard that? No. It's a way to describe a southern accent, I guess.
Really? Corn pone thick. Wow. Yeah. I've never heard that.
And if you listen to interviews with her, it's still there.
You can hear it. like that little she got past it but like it took a long time I always feel bad when like People are forced to lose an accent because I'm like, that's who you are.
It's literally who... saying it's who you are.
Do you remember Danielle from that season?
From America's Next Top Model. And they wanted her to get rid of her accent.
I was like, I love her because I love the sound of her voice.
When you watch that now, by the way, I know we're taking a quick detour, but it's bothering me because I've been watching old seasons at night when the girls are asleep.
I love that. That... whole thing with her, the amount of times Tyra Banks was so horrifically, like...
I mean, offensive to her about her accent.
Oh, yeah. The way she would, like, mock it back to her.
And she was like, you can't talk like... And she'd, like... do it back and i was like oh and she would make it like worse than what it was like i was like no that's not how she sounds well she would make her sound like dumb right and she didn't sound dumb it's her accent like That's how she speaks.
I was so angry watching it. Like I was like, Danielle.
Right. You're beautiful. Danielle's hilarious.
Like Danielle, if you're listening, I hope you are because you're awesome.
I would die. I would die. She was my favorite.
I know. I loved her. Amazing. I loved her so much.
I wanted to hang out with her so bad and they made her close her gap.
I know. It was fucked up. They did you wrong.
She didn't have them close it all the way, though.
They couldn't close it all the way. Oh, but I think she was happy because she was like, this is who I am.
Oh, yeah, she was definitely happy. But yeah, losing an accent like that's when I understand when it's like.
Maybe hard to understand and you're doing like speaking things and stuff.
Sure. You need to like refine it a little bit so that it's like a little...
But that's not even changing your accent.
That's just changing like the way you use your accent.
Exactly. Don't lose your accent. Don't ever lose who you are.
Don't. But they wanted Betty to. Unless you want to.
Then you can. They wanted Betty to and Betty was down to do it.
As long as she's down to. I want to make it big.
But she just couldn't do it. All the classes she took, it just wouldn't go away.
It's hard. It's hard. Take it from us, it's hard.
It's fucking hard. Now, there was one movie that she auditioned for and she really thought she had a chance at getting, probably because it was a Western movie.
There you go. Makes sense. But the director wanted to sleep with her.
And she was like, fuck that. Which was like, that was the day oh that was the day that was the time that was the minute mark like it was It was ridiculous.
Which is horrible. And Betty was like, fuck all that noise.
No. And she later told one of her boyfriends, I don't mind sleeping with someone to get ahead.
But I'm not sleeping with everyone. Which I was like, bad bitch alert.
She's like, I'm going to be discerning, okay?
Of course I am. Get it. So toward the end of the 40s, Betty realized that she wasn't going to make it in Hollywood because she was like, I'm not going to fucking sleep my way to the top.
It's not what I'm going to do. And she wasn't in love with Billy Neal anymore either.
So she was at a turning point in her life.
In 1949, they divorced and Betty made the decision to head out to New York, thinking that Maybe acting on stage was what she was actually meant for, not in movies.
She was like, I can still act. Again, a trigger warning because right when Betty moved to New York, she experienced something terrible.
Trigger warning, trigger warning. She was gang raped when she moved to New York.
Are you kidding me? She was literally gang raped.
I had no idea this happened. Neither did I. All of the things that happened in Betty's life, I had no fucking idea.
Yeah. I was like, excuse me, what? wow really sad and you know this had happened to her when she was a child too she was molested by her father yeah It was something that you didn't talk about back then.
And you were looked at differently afterwards. as a woman if that happened to you.
So she just pushed it down. There wasn't...
There was therapy back then, but it was not what it is today.
Definitely not the same. She just kept moving forward.
I think that trauma definitely led to some things later on in her life.
I would assume. Because we'll see, you know, Betty made a lot of terrible decisions later on in life.
And I just want it to be clear that I'm recognizing. recognizing that those things are terrible that she did.
But I also think that there is a lot of undiagnosed mental health issues going on here.
Yeah, there's some things that it could have been.
Yeah, stemming from there's some diagnosed mental mental health problems that she had but I don't think she ever received the right help for them because I just don't think the right help was there.
Yeah, I mean, she probably never processed...
No, anything. The childhood stuff or when she moved to New York.
Right. So we'll get into all of that. But it's just shocking when you break down everything that happened to her.
It really is. Now the summer after she moved to New York, she was just hanging out at Coney, excuse me, on Coney Island Beach.
And this man approached her. And you hear this situation.
You're like, that's... a very weird situation, like this is not okay.
But this guy was fine. He was like, you need to be a model.
Like your body is just like beautiful. Your face is beautiful.
Like it was a lot. You know, I would have maced him.
If that happens to you now, just like run the other way because it's not okay.
And it wasn't really okay back then, but you know, he was just appreciating her beauty and it was a different time.
It's definitely a different time, I'll tell you that much.
It was a different time to But he told her, he was like, I'd love to photograph you. um he's telling her all about these things called shutterbug classes oh my god which i love shutterbug classes and photography classes.
He's a part of them. Now, this man was Jerry Tibbs. and he was a part time photographer and a New York City policeman.
And just pointing out, we did just talk about the dating game killer who just died.
He also was a photographer who would just come up to people and say, you're beautiful, let me photograph you.
Yeah. Just keep that in mind. Yeah. You know, you know.
Not the same, but... Don't be wooed. That's one of those easy things that a lot of... like, famous killers used.
And it was usually in that time period where... that wouldn't be so strange for somebody to come up to you and be like, you're beautiful.
Let me photograph you. And because modeling was so different back then, like it was like people were getting discovered on beaches and at beauty parlor.
So back then when somebody came up to you and said, I'm a professional photographer, let me take a picture.
You believed them. hell yeah, what could happen?
Like, cool, let's get it. And it was only after we find all these things out that you're like, oh.
That's not okay. Yeah, that's not okay now.
That's like they use flattery to like get to you.
Now there's like modeling agencies. If that's something that you're looking to do, find an agent.
Yeah. Do it the right way. Yeah, you know.
But, you know, Jerry Tibbs was a good guy.
Oh, that's good. Yeah. He was actually the one to suggest that Betty cut those iconic bangs.
It was Jerry. It was Jerry Tibb. Look at you just walking up, saying I like your bod, and then you're the one who makes the iconic Betty Page bangs.
Literally. So she was photographed without those bangs.
You can find pictures of her in it. He told her, he was like, you have a high forehead.
I think it might look better if you cut some bangs.
To be honest, she did have a high forehead and those bangs are fucking awesome.
They look amazing on her. And imagine if he hadn't been so honest with her.
We never would have been bestowed that gift. of Betty Page Bangs.
No, we would never get the Betty Page Bangs.
Like I wish my style was Betty Page Bangs.
I would just look ridiculous. But like I love those bangs.
I love them too. And I can't even tell you how many times a woman will sit in your chair after she's broken up with her significant other.
And say, can I have Betty Page bangs? And you say, no, sweetie, let's sleep on it.
No, you don't want that. this sleep on it only so many people can handle this but then if she sleeps on it and she asks for them again you got to give it to her give her the petty beige all right now Petty Beige Bangs.
Petty Beige Bangs. Petty Bangs Inch. Now, Jerry Tibbs also put Betty into contact with one Cass Carr.
I don't know if you've heard of him. Oh, yes.
Now he would shoot Betty topless in 1952 and get Betty himself and 23 photographers and a handful of models arrested.
For doing a photo shoot. I believe they were like on a farm and they were doing a topless photo shoot and they got arrested for indecent exposure.
Oh my God, I love this. But so they had to appear in court and Betty allegedly told the judge.
I couldn't see this confirmed in like any transcripts or anything, but allegedly she said to the judge, there is nothing indecent about my body.
And the charges were dropped and all of the participants only got fined $5.
That's phenomenal. Isn't that amazing? It's phenomenal.
So Jerry Tibbs and Cass Carr were really the catalysts into getting Betty. into the modeling world.
Cass would organize these like shutterbug classes for the YMCA and Betty would model for the amateur photographers.
Now, Irving Klaw was the first really well-known photographer to be credited with discovering Betty Page, which like, Technically, he didn't.
I was just going to say. Technically, he did in the way where he was doing these bondage photographs.
Yeah. He and his sister Paula actually worked together on shoots that would later lead to Irving being known as the pinup king.
I think he also bestowed that title upon himself, which I love it.
I get it. You know, he was like a really nice guy.
So it's fine. I'll allow it. Yeah, I'll allow it.
Irving gets a pass. Irving took your average day-to-day shots of Betty.
But he was also running this like underground operation where he would sell photos of women in bondage to inquiring customers. it was like a whole like black market of these underground things because back like way back when when they would have like those detective magazines where it was like these women were always featured like bound up in rope and stuff.
Mm-hmm. There was a lot, again, there's a lot of cases where like that was a thing.
Again, I'm not equating these people with serial murders.
Killers would have like those magazines or they'd be obsessed with those magazines and those images would make them want to do it.
And yeah, it's a whole thing. The, um, I'm gonna sound like an idiot right now.
The high heel killer. The shoe killer. Jerry Brudos.
Jerry Brudos. I think he, didn't he? He was into those things.
I thought he was. And that's how he got people in the beginning, right?
He said he was going to take their photographs. i think so yeah well he yeah and he would also just like a brute force take people yeah But yeah, I think that's how he started.
He was into those things too. Right. And I think like he definitely had those magazines.
Which obviously you can be into that stuff and not. go that far yeah it's interesting The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
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It is, and we'll get into that too, how interesting it truly can be.
Oh boy. So during the shoots, Paula would always be the one to tie Betty up in whatever bondage the photo shoot required.
And Betty said she was never uncomfortable really during any of the shoots aside from one where She had been just tied up for too long.
She was literally physically uncomfortable.
She actually couldn't breathe. Paula said Betty never objected to anything that she was asked to do, but I don't think they were necessarily things she would have done if she hadn't needed them. the money.
Betty made really good money for money standards back then especially.
She made $10 an hour for five hours at a time.
And then on top of that, she would usually get a tip that would amount to about 50 bucks.
So she worked every Saturday. So she was making that money consistently and she was sending money back home to her family.
Which I'm like, I love that. She was really trying to take care of them.
And she was quoted as saying, I could make more money posing in two hours than I could make all week as a secretary.
Yeah. Which is true. It's crazy. Yes. Now, Betty also starred in some peekaboo films like Betty in Heels and Teaserama. which i like i had to include that one because i was like that's literally my favorite title ever Teaserama.
I think you can still watch it. It's on her IMDB.
Go watch Teaserama, everybody. Do it, you won't.
Do it, you won't. Now when she wasn't posing for Irving or Paula, Betty was working with, I don't know if you've heard of her either, this photographer called Bunny Yeager.
I don't know if you've heard of her. Yeah, actually, I have heard of her. um i was like being like fastidious she's like incredibly famous i was gonna say i mean i don't know a lot of photographers i don't really say that but i know that name She's like amazing.
Now, Bunny took actually the most iconic photos of Betty, specifically the ones of Betty on the beach in Miami.
You've probably seen these ones. She's posing with two live cheetahs.
It's amazing. Secondly, there's one where she's posing with an ostrich.
It's phenomenal. And those were the photos that Hugh Hefner actually saw. when he decided to make Betty a centerfold.
She became Playmate of the Month, aka Miss January 1955, And it was the photo of her wearing only a Santa hat that was featured.
Sassy. That's very sassy. No, she was only the second playmate, and the only one before her was one marriage.
I was just going to say, another name you might know.
I don't know if you know her. Just throw it out there.
And, by the way... In those pictures, she's wearing like this cheetah print bathing suit.
She made that bathing suit herself. What?
And later on, she would talk to people and talk to designers and stuff and show them the pictures.
And designers actually used her ideas and never credited her.
So she never got paid for her designs. What?
That's messed up. It's so fucked up. I'm literally looking at the pictures right now.
That's badass. She cut it to make it her own.
Oh my god. Yeah. That's amazing. People would literally steal her ideas and like never credit her for it. wow it's crazy also she's like stunning just stunning she was she's so ethereal She is.
She's like otherworldly. She is. She really is.
It's crazy. So in 1955, unfortunately, Irving Claw's business came crumbling down around him. because this was when Senator Kefauver, I think is how you say it, of Tennessee, which is weird, that's Betty's hometown.
And the senator basically ruined her. He decided to run for president.
He was the chairman of the United States Special Committee to Investigate Crime in Interstate Commerce.
Which I feel like they could have shortened that a little bit.
They definitely could. But his campaign centered heavily on obscenity and how TV... music, pornographic materials and all of that were really damaging to young people's minds.
I think he also probably didn't want to dance or laugh or only go to church every single day.
I think he might have been a Puritan. He might have been footloose in it.
I think he literally was. Yeah. I'm like, what do you do for fun?
What exactly? And he's like, I watch paint dry for fun.
Yeah. really gets the mind going. Try it sometime.
I'm like, yikes. Now, he had led an investigation into organized crime that turned out to be like crazy successful.
So now this was his chance to get pretty ladies and porn out of American homes everywhere because it can be just so damn Get those pretty ladies and porn out of there.
Get them out of there. Which, okay, and by the way, I'm totally here to say, yeah.
That can be damaging to some young minds.
Oh, for sure. or the guardians to make sure that porn isn't readily available to children whose minds are not fully developed.
Yeah, you got to monitor what your child is intaking.
Right. That's really all there is to it.
Right. Yep. Okay. Okay. So Irving Klaw was personally asked by Kefauver to appear in court on May 19th, 1955.
And Betty, because she was in so many of Irving's pictures, was called as a witness.
Now I guess she never actually had to testify, but this is very sad. there was a man named Clarence Grimm who testified against Irving and said that his son Kenneth had died accidentally while trying to recreate the bondage that Betty had modeled in one of Irving's photographs.
He said it was Betty specifically. Wow.
Yes. Now, the son was found tied up to a tree in nearly the exact same position that Betty had been modeling.
Wow. and he died of autoerotic asphyxiation.
But they didn't call it that back then because they didn't understand the whole thing.
And so they were blaming it on pornographic materials, which technically...
It just doesn't seem fair to me. Yeah, it's a slippery thing.
It's very slippery, but after the case it was outlawed to send or receive even non-sexual bondage materials.
You could not send them through the post.
Now, Irving Claw was actually charged in 1963 for violating that statute.
And he appealed to the conviction, but he had to destroy every single thing he had that was like bondage related, including all of his negligence.
Wow. So he was totally ruined. And three years later, he died. damn but paula actually ran the family business until 1996 jeez so i thought that was really cool that is cool But the whole court case was enough to shake up Betty to the point where she was like, I want to walk away from this all.
I think it was like she couldn't handle knowing that somebody had died and like.
She felt somewhat responsible. Of course you're going to... I mean, I would even...
Doesn't need to be rational. You know what I mean?
Like you're connected to it in some way.
You feel like it's your fault. Exactly. And I don't blame her for being like this.
I don't want anything to do with this. No, I don't blame her either.
I think it would definitely rattle you. So she did walk away for a while.
It was around 1958 that she made the decision to leave New York and actually head back to Los Angeles of all places.
She met a man there who she really hit it off with.
His name was Armand Walterson. He was a little bit younger than Buddy.
They got along well enough to decide that they should get married.
But it was too late when Betty realized that his true passions were, quote, eating hamburgers and watching television.
I mean, same. To which I say cheers, brother.
Those are also my two passions. But those were not what Betty was like finding attractive.
No. So she was like, great, awesome. Moving on.
And they definitely fought a lot. And on New Year's Eve 1959, they got into it with each other and just like got into like this fight.
And Betty ended up leaving the house. She was crying. she just like wanted to get away clear her head for a second go for a walk or something And while she was walking outside, she saw this neon sign in the distance that turned out to be a church.
And she said that she walked into the church, she sat down in the back pews and at that point in her life, she decided that she needed to find God and dedicate her life to God.
Wow. So she ended up getting divorced from Armand around 1957.
And at that point, she just immersed herself in religion.
She actually even worked for Billy Graham at one point.
He was like really famous in the Christian community at the time.
She went into the Bible classes, and she even tried to go on an African missionary, but they wouldn't let her because she had been divorced twice.
And at that point in time, it was not accepted in the particular church that Betty was attending.
Wow. So it's like, if you want to go on a missionary and help people, you should be allowed to.
That's what I'm saying. It's like... How many people in the world actually want to help other people?
If you get them... Just let them do it.
Yeah, like cherish that. Who cares if they ended a crappy marriage?
Let them live. And that's the thing, like you said, like a crappy marriage.
People get divorced for all different kinds of reasons.
Yeah, you have no idea the reason that she ended her marriage.
Not necessarily her fault that it ended, you know?
And then she's like stamped for the rest of her life and can't do what she fucking wants to do.
And she's like, hi, I would like to selflessly help people.
And they're like, sorry, you can't. Should have stayed with that asshole.
Yeah. Joke's on you. So she actually got back into contact with Billy Neal, who was her first husband, thinking that if like maybe they could get back together. then the church would look at her and say, oh, you know, like, she figured it out.
She got back together with him. So they got remarried.
Wow. Yeah. So she was like clearly very dedicated to this.
Yeah. She was hoping that she would have a shot at joining another missionary.
But again, she was denied. Jeez. And that's when her mental health really started to deteriorate.
And things really started quickly going downhill.
So she divorced Billy when she realized that being married to him wasn't going to do anything for her.
And in 1967, she married a man named Henry Lear.
So in 1972, Betty was attending a Bible retreat.
And somebody called the cops and reported that a woman was waving around a gun and screaming to people about the retribution of God.
Now, when police arrived on scene, they found Betty holding a .22 caliber gun and And she was detained.
But they let her go once her husband showed up.
Whoa. Now, just a few months after that. the police were called into Henry's home when...
He reported that Betty was holding he and his children at knife point and threatening to, quote, kill them if they took their eyes off the portrait of Jesus that she was holding in the other hand.
Whoa. Now she told them all that if they looked away from the picture that she would rip their guts out.
I literally knew nothing about this. Dude, me either.
That's crazy. And actually... blowing my mind.
I have to credit Bailey Sarian. I found out about all of this through one of her videos and She was saying, she was like, it's so hard to find any information about this.
There's like two articles. And she's so right.
You have to dig so deep. And I found a book that I'll credit later.
I have it written down at one of the points in this.
But you really have to dig to find any of this information out to the point where It kind of makes me wonder if like maybe people were.
Yeah. Like what was covered up and what was.
Like things were definitely cherry picked about her life.
Wow. That's wild. It really is. And it's sad because this is all just like untreated mental health issues.
Yeah, absolutely. failed by the system severe trauma and absolutely severe trauma and she was really failed yeah So yes, she told them that if they looked away from the picture, she would rip their guts out.
So she was... definitely taken into police custody, and it was decided that she would be admitted to the state hospital.
Well, now while she was there, she underwent treatment and eventually she was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Now, she was treated at that hospital for four months and then was allowed to move back in with Henry.
So at the end of 1972, the police were again called to the residence due to a domestic disturbance involving Betty.
And when they got there, she was inside just like. ripping all the pictures off the wall, throwing glasses around the room and smashing just anything in her path.
Now, she was detained and put into the back of a cop car while the police spoke with Henry.
And when they got back to where they had left Betty in the back of the cop car, She was indecent and she was using a wire hanger to masturbate in the back of the police car.
So they were like, clearly something is going on here.
She wasn't treated properly at this. No.
But excuse me. They're saying something's going on here, but they're not saying she wasn't treated properly.
But it's very clear. But it's very clear.
But they're like, she needs more help. So they send her back, excuse me, she wasn't charged with anything because she checked herself back into the state hospital.
But I think it was one of those things where it was like, you either do this or you're going to go to jail.
So it was like the choices. She decided to get some help.
She spent another five months there. So at this point she spent nine months in the hospital.
And it's not consecutively, but it's like just like on and off and more things are going to happen.
So it's just like I keep saying this, but it's so clear that like nothing was going on in that hospital no and we'll get into it yeah she's definitely being failed that way absolutely So during that time, Henry and Betty got divorced.
And when she left the hospital, she headed back to L.A., to live in a trailer that was owned by an elderly couple who lived next door.
In 1979, she was arrested again after the elderly neighbor called police to report that she out of nowhere pulled a knife on him and began making religious threats towards him.
Betty like wasn't looking at one point and he was actually able to knock her out using a wrench because he was like so scared for his life.
You just whacked her on the head with it.
And she went down. But she was arrested and actually tried this time for assault with a deadly a weapon.
Wow. Now she pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity and she was sentenced to another seven months in the state hospital.
But I'm like, why aren't you guys realizing she's already spent nine months there and like clearly it's not doing anything for her.
Yeah, like something needs to be changed. checked in here right now I think it just sends so it says so much about the time period that they kept sending her back there but like weren't treating her.
And every single time she's able to leave and this happens again.
Wow. It's just sad. It's so sad. It's like a repetitive failure.
It is. It absolutely is. You're doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different response.
Right. No, something needs to change. Right.
We need to try something else. And it's like that's the definition of insanity on their part.
Yeah, exactly. It's like you're insane if you don't think. think that it's just ridiculous.
So by 1982, she was out of the hospital again but like i said she didn't have a home or anyone to lean on for support She got kicked out of one of the group homes that she was in for assaulting a landlady.
And that would not be the last attack on a landlady.
Because in the mid-80s, Betty was renting from a woman named Leone Hadid.
I believe is how you say it. And this woman lived in the same building as her.
So she was renting from her, but they lived in the same building.
Now, Betty awoke in the middle of the night around 2 a.m. one night and started having what they called religious delusions.
Now, she went into Leone's room holding a knife and climbed on top of the sleeping woman.
She then woke her up and allegedly stated, God has inspired me to kill you and just started stabbing What?
This woman was stabbed 20 times. multiple times in the chest, multiple times in the hand.
She was given a Glasgow smile. Like she literally cut the corners of her mouth into a smile and also severed one of her fingers.
How does everybody not know this? This is so wild.
I didn't know this until like maybe like last year when Bailey put her video out.
I was like. What? I'm like speechless. It's wild.
It's like, how do none of us know this? So in the middle of the attack, this woman was able to pick up the phone on her bedside table and smack Betty with it to get her off of her.
Wow. And when she smacked her, the knife fell to the ground and Betty just like kind of seemed to come out of like a trance almost and the woman was screaming And she said that when she let out the scream, it seemed like Betty started to wake up from a trance, like I said.
Now, Betty slowly backed out of the room at this point, and when she was gone, the woman was finally able to run out the door and actually flag down a neighbor. after being stabbed 20 times having a finger severed and having a Glasgow smile I literally...
I'm shocked. The fact that this is like, I can't even connect this with the Betty Page image that has been published.
Wow. That has been like shoved down our throats.
Whoa. It's crazy. And the fact that this woman, all of that happened to her and then she was able to run out the front door.
I was going to say, the fact that she could move, never mind run out the front door and have the wherewithal.
And flag down help. And the, like... the presence of mind to go find someone to get help.
How is she even talking? How is she even conveying this to someone?
I have no idea. I have no idea. It's wild.
Wow. So she lost control. consciousness like I feel like that goes without saying yeah on the way to the hospital but she woke up the next day and she was able to tell the police everything now.
When the police showed up at the residence looking for Betty, they actually found her standing in the shower trying to like wash off her bloody clothing.
Oh my gosh. And it was said that she had them waiting for an hour while she dried off.
But I feel like that's an exaggeration. Yeah.
Now, luckily, Lene survived the attack, and she says it was most likely because Betty attacked her with a bread knife. instead of a butcher's knife.
So like I like think of like a serrated bread knife like you would cut like a bagel or something with.
Oh my God. To be stabbed with a bread knife and have your finger severed with a bread knife.
And have your face severed, like your mouth cut open.
Have your face cut? I know. I can't. I just can't.
Now Betty was arrested again, obviously, and this time she was charged with attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon.
Now, she was first ruled competent to stand trial, but she pleaded not guilty.
But later during the trial, multiple doctors testified And Betty's plea was changed to not guilty by reason of insanity.
Yeah, it should be. Now, this is the book.
Most of the information I got about the attack was from the real Betty Page, The Truth About the Queen of Pinups. and it's by Richard Foster.
I'll link it in the show notes. He got so much information about this attack and just like Betty's life in general.
It's crazy. She was not a fan of Richard Foster.
No? No. Now, according to that book, the judge sentenced Betty to 10 years in Patton State Hospital.
She was able to knock off 50 days for good behavior.
And at the point like when she went through the trial, she had already served a little over a year.
So she got some time taken off. But that was actually the same hospital that Betty had been in on multiple occasions and they just kept releasing her over and over again.
So Leone actually filed a lawsuit against California and West side independent services for the elderly. who had placed Betty in her home.
She had voiced concerns to Betty's caseworker about Betty's behavior.
She was like, I know that something is like not okay.
Something is largely wrong here. And she told them she said Betty would go into the bathroom and talk to herself and she would catch her doing this all the time.
She was like, I know that something's wrong with her and you guys aren't listening to me.
That happens so much, though. Oh, absolutely.
And she was like, becomes a whole group of enablers around Sam. someone it's so true because and especially at this point in time there's just no understanding of like schizophrenia and like everything so everyone's like shut up you don't know what you're talking about and they're like she's being like i literally want to help this person and god only knows what they were doing to treat her in that hospital because back in that day like the stories what they did it probably made her worse yeah I mean, I clearly and when you see the escalation of like what she was doing versus like what she ended up doing.
Oh, it's. A steady, steady climb. It really is.
But, like, she just kept getting the same story.
Nothing was wrong with Betty. And they told her she just left her husband and she needed somewhere to stay because she didn't have a husband.
She has to stay here. That's it. So the lawsuit actually settled out of court and she was given $70,000.
Wow. Wow. Which was like nothing though because she had to use all that money to pay her lawyers.
Oh, yeah. Tons of medical bills. And then she needed to go psychiatric treatment after the attack because she would like have nightmares and just like PTSD.
So it's like, why even go through all that?
No, exactly. And she was later quoted as saying it wasn't a good settlement.
It's not worth it to give me $70,000 for what I've been through.
Yeah, seriously. Like putting that price tag on what she went through.
Right. Exactly. That's insulting, to be honest.
It really is. Now, Patton State Hospital actually faced a lot of backlash Their executive director was fired by the state mental health department in 1982, right before this happened.
Hmm. it was stated that the firing came as part of a message to the hospital that they needed to quote, have more sensitivity to the community.
That's AKA get your shit together. Oh, get your shit together because It also came after multiple escapes from the hospital between 1981 and 1982.
I believe it. Like tons of people just escaped.
Yeah, I would. I mean, obviously, but it's like.
How do you not have security? Yeah, it's ridiculous.
What are you guys doing? Nothing. Now, while she was serving her sentence in the hospital, Betty did write an apology letter to... to leone but she was less than pleased and she was like don't let her contact me yeah i yeah And I guess in the letter, she basically was just like, I'm sorry for what I did.
But like, I didn't mean to. And she was like, yeah, I've gone through enough.
I'm all set. I don't blame her at all. You don't need to.
Yeah. She was like, please don't allow her to contact me anymore.
Don't blame her. Now... While Betty was, we can only hope, being treated for schizophrenia in the hospital, Dave Stevens, who had seen a photograph of Betty when he was a kid and been like totally enthralled with her ever since.
He was working on his comic, The Rocketeer, which I'm sure you know because it turned into a movie.
Now, the female heroine in the comic is named Betty and is like, more than inspired by Betty Page.
Like she is Betty Page. Yeah. Now, Dave is actually credited for bringing the public's attention back to Betty Page.
When she was released from the hospital in 1992, she was like overwhelmed to realize that she was famous.
How weird I can imagine that be. So when she disappeared the first time she became famous because people are seeing these pictures of her.
And then it kind of, like, stopped. And then when she was admitted into the hospital and all this stuff is going on, like, not a lot of people know that it's Betty Page.
No. And then he writes this comic and she comes out of the hospital and she's famous again.
Wow. And this was on an astronomical level.
That would blow your mind. It did blew her mind.
It did blew her mind. It blew her mind. It blew my mind so much that it blew my mind instead.
And it blew your mind and it blew everybody's mind and I can't talk.
But so she had no idea. And she also wasn't making any money off the photos that she had posed for.
So that's why she didn't know she was famous.
She wasn't getting any money. She's like, that's fun that everybody knows who I am.
Right. And everybody is like obsessed with me and like wants me to sign these pictures and these pictures that I have no nothing from that I have nothing from.
And that and then she's seeing like these designs that she fucking created and all these magazines and she's like, I'm not getting a penny for those.
That's the. part that would really get to me now it wasn't until she sat and this is like a very controversial human but he actually did really help her She sat down with Hugh Hefner for lunch one day in 1993.
It was the first time they ever met. She posed for Playboy and literally like they had never even met.
Wow. But he made arrangements for her to get an agent.
And then after that, she started to get paid royalties.
But it wasn't until Hugh Hefner helped her out that she got that.
That's wild. It's really crazy. You know what's also wild that I was just thinking about, because I was going to ask you earlier.
I was like, oh, is Betty Page like a stage name?
Did she make that up? And that's... That's like such a perfect name.
Yeah, no, like that's like literally her name.
Like Betty Mae Page. Betty Mae Page. How are you born with that name and not become like, it just really is crazy.
You think about it, names back then were so fucking cool.
They were. And actually, I feel like lately I'm seeing like so many people like having babies and stuff.
And old names are making a comeback. Oh, they are.
And I... love that they have been for a while I'm here for yeah I'm into it I love it so you know Betty was like crazy famous at this point now she's finally getting paid royalties for all of her projects But she she just wanted to live a quiet life like she wasn't used to this.
She's still trying to get treatment at this point.
In 1992, treatment's a little bit better.
So I'm hoping that she was, you know, receiving some kind of treatment.
Yeah. She's like, you know what? I'm just...
I've been through it. I've been through it.
I need a second. I need... A lot of seconds.
I would have wanted this a long time ago, but now I just need to calm down a little bit.
But she would like go to premieres if they had to do with her.
And he actually showed up to like this huge movie that...
It was about her life. It was called The Notorious Betty Page, and she was being played by Gretchen Maul.
Now, she was... pissed about the way that the movie portrayed her she was like no like that's no which like I don't know how true it is.
I haven't seen it, but she left the theater screaming that it was all lies.
Like, she literally left the theater screaming.
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's not how you want that to go.
That's not at all. But there was other films about her life that we'll get into that she did like.
In 2003, she actually posed for the 50th anniversary of Playboy.
And that was pretty much the only time she ever posed again because she just she didn't want to be seen anymore.
Like, yeah, she was like, I'm famous for being like that beautiful, like, tiny girl with like the Betty Page bangs.
And she's like, that's not me anymore. And I just don't want to.
Yeah. It just wasn't for her anymore. Now she also narrated a film about her life, Betty Page Reveals All. but she refused to be on camera.
She said, I don't want to be photographed to my old age.
I feel the same way with old movie stars.
It makes me sad. We want to remember them when they were young.
That makes me sad. I know. That attitude makes me sad.
It does. I think she had like a lot of in her older age, like body dysmorphia kind of problems and stuff like that.
Like she thought that she had gained. weight she thought that she wasn't pretty anymore oh that makes me sad and I think she was like kind of like projecting that onto other people.
When she was entering a phase, like a decade.
Yeah. And a new new because beauty standards change so much.
She went from like when it was like really it considered so beautiful to be like a curvy model with like curves and then this was like heroin chic at this point yeah exactly so was like the Kate Moss kind of like really, really, really, really skinny kind of thing.
Right. I can imagine coming from that and then seeing what is considered beautiful now.
And she's like, well, fuck me. Well, I'm nowhere near that.
And so I must be ugly. And so many people felt that way.
Of course. Absolutely. It just makes me think of, like, when Marilyn Monroe said, though, that, like, she was like, I'm just gonna, like, I'm gonna age with this, like, I'm gonna take this face into... and let it age yeah and you know i wish she had been able to because i just wanted to I would love to see how she was as an old lady, you know?
And Thelma Todd said the same thing. She was like, I'm going to just live my fucking life and fuck your potato.
Get it. Now, unfortunately, Betty passed away in 2005.
She was 85 years old. Wow. And before she died, it was said that David Stevens, the one who did the comic book The Rocketeer, He would take her grocery shopping and take her to her different appointments, I guess.
Dope. Yeah, I saw that in one source. So I don't know if it's like totally true, but I did see it in a source.
That's crazy. And because I love to finish with a good quote, I actually found two that just kind of go to show the many ways that Betty's life was portrayed.
Yeah. There's just such a difference. Harlan Ellison said...
She is simply pure fantasy. She is lust in an ice cream cone, two scoops. enthusiasm in the whisper of nylon, post-pubescent rambunctiousness in the backseat of a Studebaker commander.
I love that. I had to share that quote because even just saying it feels like art.
What a quote! So he says that about her.
And then the Guardian says of Betty, As with Monroe and Mansfield, the sadness of her life was found in the space between.
Oh, which I was like, that's another beautiful quote.
All of this is so like deeply, deeply beautiful and sad.
Right. Like the first quote is like, I feel like it's like referring to like the image that the world had of Betty Page.
Like in her picture she's an ice cream cone with two skulls. like she's this fun in the back of the car and then it's like The real truth of her story is found in the space between.
Exactly. Wow, that's really deep. And I just thought those two quotes were like perfect to just show, wow, Betty was a fucking dichotomy.
Oh my God. My, yes. So crazy. So that is the unknown story, I guess you could say, of Betty Page.
That's crazy. I literally did not know even one of these things.
I know, it really is so nuts. I listened to a lot of podcasts about her during the research process.
I found that book. And one of the podcasts that I found, I'm looking up to make sure that I have the name correct. called Stuff Mom Never Told You.
Oh, I've heard of this one. They have a really great episode about Betty Page.
Their whole podcast is basically... It says...
Continuing the conversation of what it is to identify as female through research-based discussion around feminism. and how it impacts everyday life.
Ooh, I love that. So their take on her whole story, I thought was really fucking interesting.
And they had a lot of great information. information go listen to that so go listen to them go watch bailey sarian's video on this and definitely go read that book that i will link in the show notes damn and fucking find all the information you can about buddy page because fall down that rabbit hole it is such a rabbit hole it really is wild i had like i i don't want to say fun because it was so sad but i i really enjoyed researching yeah it's very interesting it was really cool Just because it's stuff you never would have known if you didn't dive into it.
You have no idea. Wow. That's crazy. It really is.
And now you know what's even crazier? It's time to shout out some Patronus Eye, baby.
Oh, man. Let's get it. I gotta pull up the thing.
Let's all get Betty Page bangs. Oh, let's all get Betty Page bangs.
I think the first person to get Betty Page bangs should be Holly McAnulty.
Yeah, Holly McAnulty you need to get. Betty Page.
I think you'd look great with them. You'd look great with them.
I also think that Jessica Norell would look really good with them.
Jessica Norell. Get it. Let's get it. Katie McClelland.
Katie McClelland. You could go either way.
You can have bangs or no bangs. Also, I really like your last name.
It's fun to say it, McClelland. McClelland.
Hopefully I'm saying it right. Raymond Farmer.
You should also get Betty Page Bangs. Get some Betty Page bangs.
I think they'll make you feel good. I think you'll love it.
Melissa Meany. I bet you're nice. I bet you're a nicey.
I think you're very nice and I think you could use some too.
I think so. I think Audrey Perdell. Audrey Perdell for sure.
Get some. Get some, Audrey. Then we have Samantha Flaggett.
Samantha Flake. You know what? Get bangs or don't because you're great.
Because either way, you're fucking awesome.
We also have Susan Clevenshire. Susan Clevenshire.
That's just a great name. I don't have a lot more to say.
That's a really good name. That's all there is to say.
Say no more, fam. Then we have Madison Dillinger.
Madison Dillinger. Thank you so much. Thank you.
You're, you know, John Dillinger. Exactly.
Ever heard of them? I think I have, yeah.
And then I'm going to name five Patronusi in the Hall of Fame.
The Hall of Fame. Here is the cool inserted music thing for the Hall of Fame.
The Hall of Fame. We would love to honor Alyssa.
Fuck, I'm sorry if I mess up your last name.
I think it's Vafiadis. Yes. Vafiadis. Vafiadis.
Vafiadis. That's what it is. Alyssa Vafiadis.
Hall of Fame. You're an all-star. You're a winner, baby.
From the bottoms of our hearts. yes we then have Melissa Alio Melissa Alio I appreciate you so much.
I can't even begin to thank you so much.
And then we have Caitlin Danziger. Caitlin Danziger, I want to dance with you because you're that great.
I messed up. What is it? Dan Zinger. Dan Zinger.
I still want to dance with you. Oh my gosh, and then I guess we'll just finish it on this person because they're just so iconic.
Alyssa. Alyssa you know who you are. And you know what?
You're so hot right now. And forever. You're the hottest right now.
Hot right now, forever. Next season, this season, a future season that doesn't even exist.
All the seasons for decades to come. Guys, thank you so much.
Thank you all, all so much for joining. contributing to the Patreon.
We stupid love you. We stupid love you. We would be lost without you.
We truly would. Now we gotta get going because it's time to record Are You Afraid of the Snark? afraid of the snark are you patronuses no they do and if you're not a patronus you should know But we love you guys.
Thank you guys so much for listening. We hope you keep listening.
And we hope you keep it up. Weird. But not so weird that... Maybe...
Well, don't keep it as weird as Betty did in her later life.
Yeah, definitely don't. At all? No. At all?
No. Keep it so weird that you get iconic bangs.
Yeah, get the iconic bangs. That's weird in a great way.
Keep it so weird that you are a proponent for mental health.
Yeah, keep it that weird. That's not weird at all.
For sure. Yeah. Weirded up all over that.
Bye, guys. Bye. Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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