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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.
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I'm obsessed. It's pillowy. It's satisfying.
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I really am obsessed with the strawberry flavor right now.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alayna. And this is Morbid.
Hey we're back. Hey we're back with a brand new case.
Episode! It's not even a brand new case.
It is not a brand new case. We've been living in this case for two whole episodes already.
Yeah, we're about to get evicted. after the end of this.
John Edward Robinson is not gonna quit. He is not legit, but he's definitely not gonna quit.
Eventually, he's got to. But don't worry.
At the end, he's forced into retirement.
So there's that. No. Well, we were like, is there any true crime news?
And I was searching here on my little phone thing and I was like, oh.
Okay, there is some true crime news. Some local true crime news.
Yes, in Cape Cod, there's apparently a man...
Daniel Gorman, 52 years old, he lives in West Falmouth, and he has been following young women leaving restaurants, He followed a girl home last night, apparently.
He drives a black Chevy truck. The plate number is 6GP914.
I guess he was like questioned by the police, but they didn't have enough to hold him on.
But there was a 16 year old girl who was walking home from her job in Falmouth And a black SUV began following her.
They asked if she wanted to ride home. She said no.
And then... the car stopped, got out, and the person was literally trying to pull her into the car.
And the vehicle was described as a black SUV that makes a squeaking noise.
The operator was a white male, approximately six feet tall, 40 to 50 years old, deep voice. black t-shirt, dark pants, and short, if not balding hair.
So please be on the lookout for that, local ladies.
Be careful in Cape Cod. Men and everybody, like, be on the lookout.
Yeah, in the Falmouth area. So creepy. Don't ever try to drag me into your car.
I'll mace you in the eyeballs. Oh, that's a nightmare.
That's a nightmare. Go get mace if you live in the Cape.
Yeah, if you live in the Cape. In the Cape.
Where are you from? In the Cape. I'm from inside of the Cape.
But yeah, that's really scary. Hopefully that doesn't happen again.
Life is so scary. i'm glad that we have these ways of like spreading this though and being like don't yeah don't get in that car seriously don't talk to that dude But still.
That's terrifying. But you know what? We got you through two parts of this asshole too.
Don't talk to this dude either. Don't. You don't have to worry about it because he's put away.
So it's cool. But that's a spoiler alert.
Let's get into it. At the end of part two, he had convinced several women.
He had convinced Isabella Lewicka. He had convinced Suzette Troughton.
He had convinced Katherine Clampett. He had gotten Debbie and Sheila Faith to come out to Kansas from different states. promising them jobs, promising them new lives, promising to take care of them, Sheila and Debbie were a mother-daughter, 15-year-old disabled in a wheelchair with Spina Biff at a daughter.
That one rocks. ruined me. That he promised to take care of, send to a special school, help her with medical bills, all that stuff.
It's just... This dude is fucking terrible.
Evil to the core. And now he has the last victim that he has... basically made vanish into thin air is Suzette Troughton.
Um, The last we saw him was he had gone through all her computers and he had put her stuff in storage.
He threw her dogs away. Gave her dogs away.
And he had told her mother, Carol, that he was going to be jet setting her, you know, through Europe and all that good stuff.
Lies. But her mother immediately knows that these emails and letters that she's getting are not from Suzette.
Of course she knows it. Now her mother called the police in late March because she was that convinced.
She was like, something's wrong here. Yeah.
And they talked all the time, at least once a day, if not several times.
That's so heartbreaking. So the police started looking for her and they found her dog.
So they did track down the two dogs that had been adopted out.
And when her mother found that out, she said that's when the panic button went off because she said she never... ever would have willingly given up those dogs.
It never would have happened. No. And then they found out that her stuff was in a storage facility called Store for Less, Store More for Less.
That was weird. That set off alarm bells.
They noticed Robinson on also had a unit there in the same storage facility under his name, and they made the connection immediately.
There you go. looking at this guy they know that people are just appearing around him that women are So they're already thinking this guy's a Crete.
So they started looking into this because...
He's made a ton of waves. I mean, first we had Paula Godfrey.
We had Lisa Stassi and her daughter. Now we have all these missing women like he's making waves.
Yeah, he's making tsunamis. And he's been able to get away with all this.
People haven't looked too far into him because he's... so far picked women that he can, he like, makes a relationship with, he's convinced them to do these things that will give complete control to him,
And then he's also got all these different ways of housing them, so it's hard to keep track of where they are.
Well, and just ways of forging their... Yeah, and just like he gets them to write their names on things and addresses of friends and family.
So he's able to keep... giving them these backgrounds and keep giving them these stories of where they are. people aren't questioning it.
And most of them are of an age where if they decided to take off, they're taking off.
We can't do anything about it. So Carol also did something different.
She called Robinson herself. Yes. She was able to do this because Suzette had actually gone against what Robinson had told her.
Robinson told all of these ladies, you never to tell people his name, not any of his contact stuff.
Like he didn't want any of that. but Suzette had smartly given his information to her mother.
Yeah, good. We love a mama bear. He said he was like shocked when she called, like really shocked that she had done that.
He told Carol, her mother, that Suzette had rejected him and run off with a man named Jim Turner.
They're super happy. She didn't want my job offer.
She didn't want to be with me. Like, they're happy.
Yeah, right. She knows her daughter. And he had said that she was sailing around Mexico with Jim Turner.
That's what he told her. Sure. So she was like, yeah, that doesn't sound right at all.
So she was like, you know what? I'm going to call the fucking police.
If you don't tell me where she is. And it scared the shit out of him.
Good. So this is when shit gets good. This is when shit starts unraveling.
Turning around. Because she's going to call the police.
He knows this. So he's like, fuck. I'm, like, biting my lip right now.
I'm, like, nervous. I'm, like, what's going to happen?
I'm, like, fuck. thing is Suzette had made some really good friends in life and in the online world.
Because remember, she was online a lot. She met a lot of people.
She made lasting friendships. In the BDSM community, she had some very good friends who were also like occasional lovers and whatever.
And two of them in particular, one was named Lore Remington.
That's his name. Her name. Excuse me. L-O-R-E.
Lore Remington. Okay. What an awesome name.
That's a cool ass name. And an awesome podcast.
Go listen to Lore. Her friend, Tammy Taylor, they had all been very good friends.
They had all like really formed a relationship.
They had been like occasionally in relationships themselves between each other. and they were super worried about her because these were also the friends that immediately had advised her against moving out there in the first place.
They did not trust this whole thing. Right.
You had said that her friends were like very skeptical.
Yeah. And they were very concerned that she was now nowhere to be found.
They knew she wasn't talking to her mother all of a sudden or she was talking weirdly to her mother in emails and shit.
It just wasn't her. And they were like, none of this is making sense.
We know Suzette. This isn't her. So they talked to police and they basically were like, they were like, here's what our relationship with her is.
They outlined everything about it and they said, we know that she was going out there to Kansas City.
She was going to work for a guy. His name was John, and this guy is very active in the BDSM community.
And Lore in particular said, I know where to find him online.
And she was like, I've seen him a ton of times in those chat rooms.
I've seen him since Suzette went out there in those chat rooms.
He has propositioned everyone around me and me at different times.
So she said, if you want me to go undercover, I will go undercover in that chat room.
I will talk to him. I will get as much information as I can and I will try to make him slip up.
Lore fucking Remington. Fucking Lore Remington.
For the motherfucking win. Did any of us, for one second, question...
Never. Whether Lore fucking Remington would go undercover...
And get this fucker. Laura Remington was born to go undercover.
Did any of us question it? I came out of the womb.
Undercover. She was ready. Ready. Ready to go.
And she just offered this. That's cray cray.
And this was one of those situations where they had never been they hadn't been dealing with this kind of like basically an online serial killer who was like luring women over the internet to come to a different state to kill them.
I mean, like you have said, the internet was brand spanking new.
It was in its infancy. There wasn't even fucking Dateline Yeah, there you go.
Not Dateline, the one... Was it Dateline?
Yeah, I know what you're talking about. How to Catch a Predator.
Thank you. Jesus Christ. I was like, what's happening?
I was like, the, the, the this, this, this.
The Chris Hansen thing. Yes, thank you. Yes, so...
Yeah, so they had never used a civilian to go online undercover.
They had obviously used... they knew like informants have always existed but like online this was just like a very different Yeah.
And John Douglas in the book says a lot like how new this was and how...
They were trying to navigate it very quickly, very efficiently, and make this work, but it was all... again brand spanking new so they were doing what they could the 90s and the early aughts were just it guys there was such a time I miss it there was such a time You know what's even more stressful than a packed calendar?
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So basically, they were going to do a sting operation to get information about Suzette, but it was going to be a long one because they knew they weren't gonna get him just to like spill shit right away this guy is smart he's cunning he's the manipulative one we're gonna have to make sure you don't get played Lore is not gonna get played.
She's not getting played. Don't even play.
So they went for it and they connected online, Lauren, John, immediately.
Wow. And he was hooked immediately because who wouldn't be, by the way.
Her fucking name is Lore. And basically was ready to start a master-slave relationship with her like right off the bat.
He wanted naked photos of Lore, and she was like, no, no.
He wanted her to come to Kansas, like, immediately.
Was like, let's do, like, she was his next wow like boom let's how scary that must have been for her to know she knows that's what he's fantasizing about murdering me And he also started messaging Lore as Suzette. and pretending to be Suzette and be like, oh, John's really great, you should definitely come out here and that's her and he doesn't even know that that's her friend But she's like, basically Suzette is being... Well, and then she kind of like... she did let out a little bit like, oh, like I've seen Suzette in these chat rooms.
Sure. Like I've seen her, I know her. So that's when he sent... fake Suzette to be like, oh, hey, girl.
He's so awesome. You should totally come out here.
John's the best. He's such a good master and we love him and he's taught me so much about this."
And Lor knew it wasn't Suzette. Like, she was like, the way she was talking, I know her.
Like, I know her. That's not her. And Tammy Taylor tried to do the same thing.
She got in on it now, too. So she started luring him as well.
We love a friend group that is this solid.
What a squad. That is squad goals. That is a team right there.
I retract my statement about last episode's squad goals, and I'm referring it to this one.
Yeah, squad. He acted the same way to her, totally ready to add another woman to the list.
Like, ready. Wow. So they're trying to do stuff.
They're like, they're emailing with them.
They're not getting anything really solid.
So this is going to be a long process and they're willing to... to do it.
They were like we'll sit here and do it.
Now police became aware at this time of more women that he was currently checking into motels and apartments all over.
Thank you. So they formed a legit task force that was created just for John Edward Robinson.
Wow. and after they went through all his criminal records and shit they were like whoa whoa whoa we need Stephen Hames on this.
Like he needs to be on this task force. So they called him and they were like, we need your help.
And It was a Johnson County District Attorney, Paul Morrison, who I mentioned last episode. he led the task force.
And detectives were now learning from Lore and Tammy more about like the BDSM world.
They, which like I give them props that they like wanted to understand this more so they could better understand him.
They were thinking like profilers and that's interesting.
Yes. Because, like, I'm sure this, like, police department was not, like, very equipped to deal with, like, all of this.
No, I wouldn't think so. Like in the Midwest, this police department is probably not like, Yeah, we're totally up on all like the kinks that could possibly involve.
Yeah, we have a whole book on that. So they had Lore and Tammy literally sit down and explain the ins and outs of these relationships, what they should be. what this looks to be and like how this isn't the same.
And basically we're just trying to understand like how they could, get to him kind of thing.
And so they were tailing him. They were tapping his phones.
Wow. They even had officers pretending to be utility workers outside of his home to watch him.
That is amazing. They had others that were literally sunbathing in neighbors yards just to watch him like pretending to be neighbors just like sunbathing in their backyard.
And um... Also, they worked out a deal with the garbage collectors.
They would come early to his house, empty his trash for them. give them to these detectives to bring back to the station so they could pick through all of his trash to find evidence.
Wow. I'm so here for this. And then they would replace the barrels.
Now, the problem here was that Robinson had been conditioned to feel impenetrable.
Right. He got away with everything and he literally just floated through the disappearances of Paula Godfrey Lisa Stassi, her daughter Tiffany, Katherine Clampett, So Paul Morrison, the DA, like I said in the last episode, he was like, we're going to make sure that we are able to nail him on the Suzette Troughton case at the very least.
They were like, we want solid evidence that we're going to put his ass behind bars.
For good. Like this needs to be not getting out of life imprisonment or in Kansas.
They were like or death penalty. We're going to get this fucker.
So they didn't want any more of this probation crap.
They didn't want them wiggling out from any more fucking charges.
So the progress was unfortunately slow, but it was very, very deliberate. uh... paul morrison said quote at the time he said i'm pretty invested in this case The amount of victimization that he has wrought on people is beyond comprehension.
In so many ways, everyday people have been victimized by him.
And from that standpoint, it's extraordinarily important that it be stopped.
So this is when they actually got a hold of FBI profilers in Quantico.
And John Douglas talks about this, obviously, because he's like the... he's where you should go for that and he was saying like this was really smart of them to do and they I they could have done even more with it because there's so many facets to John Robinson and seeing how he was able to totally associate with two different ways of living at once.
He really was, especially at this point in 2000 and stuff.
He was a grandfather of seven grandkids.
Seven? Yeah. And by all accounts, they fucking loved him.
His kids loved him. They loved he babysat his grandchildren.
He had a Santa suit. He was the local Santa.
Like, he was a fucking... That's insane.
There is... I mean, it is literally like that Jekyll and Hyde thing.
It's unreal. And by all accounts, he was, like, really good with kids.
That's fucking weird. Which is really, it's always strange when that's a thing.
And terrifying. I don't know why it's just always like, I'm like, why?
Because I don't want John Robinson. Why can you do that to women, but then be nice to, I don't understand.
Like that's, but like they're, it's even like I mean I'm happy when animals aren't hurt but it's always like strange when like there will be like a very sadistic murderer who like has a dog Yeah, that's the thing.
It's like very strange to me. So like John Douglas was saying in the book that like, going to Quantico and talking to these profile is to try to get a better understanding of him. was smart because it helped them understand ways that they could trip him up and understand ways that he might trip up. because he was so fucking well, like really good at covering all of this.
So they were going to have to find a way to find a little break in the armor kind of thing.
And they weren't equipped to do this themselves.
Right. Because then we're adding in this whole world of BDSM and master-slave sexual relationships and He was part of this weird club and like that it goes so much further with it.
So it's like that's a whole different set of psychology that you need to deal with.
Yeah, he's a lot on paper. Exactly, he really is.
So in the meantime, he had convinced... two other women to come to Kansas and be his sex slaves in the meantime.
They were both treated horrifically and put up in extended stay hotels where the police were staying in the rooms on either side of the room that he would put them in.
Thank God. Because they were stationed there because he always used a number 120, that room he always used.
Oh, that's creepy. And they would listen, but there was problems here.
So he would be very violent. Like not BDSM violent where the, you know, safe words, expectations, trust, all that. he was violent, like beating these women for his own pleasure and taking photos of them to later use to blackmail them.
And he would obsessively call them and show up to have sex with them and then leave them abandoned for days at a time to really fuck with their psyches.
That's so fucked. And one of these women had brought, and this sounds like you're going to be like, what?
One of these women had brought $700 worth of sex toys with her. in a duffel bag and he stole them as punishment, like took them from her.
And she didn't have anything. And I think, I guess this was just one thing that was like hers. sure seven hundred dollars is a lot of money yeah especially for sex toys i'm sure him stealing that from her was like, what the fuck?
After he put her through all of that. Right.
So he like because she wasn't being a good, you know, sub or whatever it was.
So he took them and like walked out of the hotel and was like, these are mine now. this pissed her off.
So all the other stuff was like, she felt just like beat down.
This was the tipping point of like that fucker.
So she called the police. Okay. The other woman that was going through this as well at the same time, so traumatized by his treatment of her that she went right to the police as well.
Wow. And she had to be put in a safe house she was so fucked up from it and she went to them and was like I did not enter into this for this like I did not sign up for this this is not what I wanted like and she was embarrassed because she was like I'm into like a little bit of this stuff but like I'm embarrassed about it and like and this is not what I wanted like and I feel so bad well she's probably scared that people are gonna look at her and say like well you know you signed up for this or something.
And she was like, this is not what I asked for.
Like I was into a consensual, like, trusting BDSM.
Which is why it's so great that they did end up having Lore and educate them about it yeah so that they could understand that this wasn't a case of you asked for it this is a case of like there's real rules involved here right but the problem was for it that the police are sitting there, they're seeing this, they're seeing that things are going on, they're hearing things.
But they can't really do anything. But there's a sexual component to this, and there's consent that is in some way happening here, and these are adults...
So they can't really do much. They shined.
And they signed contracts. So it's like...
There's a lot of weird, just fogginess that is happening here that the police are like, we don't know how to fucking intervene here because, like, there's only so much we can do.
Technically, this is a... Weirdly consensual relationship that's happening.
Even though it's not. Obviously, when they came to him, to the police and said he stole $700 worth of things from me or he sexually assaulted me, that's when they said, okay, we can do something now.
But still, at this point, He was also still with Barbara.
Barbara The woman that he walked by in the grocery store with Nancy, the one that Nancy wrote a letter to, that he had been with for like...
35 years at this point? That's crazy. Still with Barbara, and he was telling Barbara at this point, that they are going to move to Canada together and start a new life.
Do you think she was next or do you think he was dipping to Canada?
I think he was dipping to Canada. Because Barbara packed all her shit.
She was ready to go. I don't know. I don't really know how to word this without it sounding like. but like, I just, I don't understand how he chose who he was going to kill and who he wasn't going to kill.
I have no idea like it's just like very confusing that like Nancy and Barbara were never like physically hurt to our knowledge.
I think because Barbara... I don't know exactly how Barbara came into the folds, but it's like Nancy and Barbara to me seem...
Well, there's a couple of things here because in one way I can like say that this works, but in another way it doesn't.
Okay. Because I was going to say, like, Barbara and Nancy are almost, like, the only long-term stable people. air bunnies air bunnies like that like that he I love how much you're saying air bunnies lately I'm like where did that come from but He...
Like that he looks at them as like, like he's never going to leave his wife.
Yeah, no, of course not. He's, that's his, that's his life that he goes back to that.
Well, Right, that's what I mean. And that's just stability of like, I can chill out here.
That makes sense to me. And then I can go get my rage out over here.
I think Barbara somewhat resembles that as well because he gave her all of, like, Isabella's shit.
And he like kept her there. He kept her going.
It's really Barbara that's like the confusing relationship in my mind.
But I could almost put her in the same place as Nancy because he seems to almost hold them in the same kind of regard.
He does, you're right. But then I throw Beverly Bonner in there, who, because I was going to say these other women he lures off the internet.
Except for Beverly. And promise of this and promise of that.
And it's all this sex involved and BDSM and all that.
But Beverly... was married and had a job and wasn't looking for a new job.
So, okay, so maybe... Um, Nancy, we know that Nancy wasn't into the BDSM lifestyle and no, we don't really know about Barbara.
Barbara was, I think. Okay, so there goes my theory.
I think Barbara was into it. I was going to say, like, maybe.
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Every time I think, I know, I don't know.
That's why there's no understanding him.
And that's why they reached out to the FBI profilers in Chronicle. because they were like, help us understand this.
I know. I love that. I'm like, maybe I can figure this out.
Meanwhile, the FBI is like, girl, we didn't.
Meanwhile, John Douglas, mind hunter, is like, I have no idea.
This doesn't make sense. But I want to figure it out.
But we're like, we'll figure it out. John Douglas.
I'll call you. Also, John Douglas, come on the show.
Please. Yesterday. But either way, so he's still seeing Barbara.
All of these women that I have named to you all of these encounters, all of these murders, all of these terrible, terrible things that are happening.
These relationships that he's carrying on, these affairs that he's carrying on, these terrible things he's doing.
He is still maintaining a wife and family and he's still maintaining a full time mistress and Barbara and then telling her we're going to move to fucking Canada. and barbara's on it like she's into it yeah 35 years this girl has dealt with this stuff.
I'm like, Barbara, what are you doing? Makes no sense.
But either way, Suzette's family is getting more and more typed letters still.
Through this whole thing. That has not stopped.
They're getting letters. I hate it. The correspondence has not stopped.
And now it's saying that she's with her lover, Jim Turner, and that they're sailing around Mexico like he had told everybody.
They're having a great time. No. They're having a great time.
Now, then during the investigation and the surveillance, they found out that he had lured yet another woman from Tennessee to come live with him in Kansas.
Wow. Now, initially, they're like, Jesus Christ.
Like, another one. Like... But they're like, what are we going to do?
And they're thinking like I just said, it's going to be the same shit.
We're going to hear all this stuff. We're going to see all this stuff.
There's gonna be contracts involved. They're gonna be adults.
We're not gonna know what to do. What are we gonna do?
We can't get into this. We're gonna keep watching this happen.
We got to catch them in something, but they learned. that this woman from Tennessee had an eight-year-old daughter who she would be bringing with her to live in Kansas.
Because he had promised her a life. He had promised her he was going to take care of them.
I'm just saying, ah, because I know what's going to happen.
Exactly. But so he had also come in contact at the same time that he was bringing this Tennessee woman with her eight-year-old daughter to Tennessee.
He had also come in contact with a 17-year-old girl who had just given birth.
That's underage. And was living in her car with her newborn.
She was in such... the, like, dire straits.
You poor thing. He had told this girl, if you become my sex slave...
I will move you and the infant onto my farm.
I'll give you a chance at a good life. You just have to do this for me.
And she was desperate. Of course. this is when DA Paul Morrison decided it's time to move in on him now because he's underaged.
It was the children who tipped the scales for him because he said, There was no doubt from any of us that he was capable of harming children if it got in the way of what he was doing.
And he said, you know, with how he is with women and girls, it's not a jump to think that if a kid got in his way that... would hurt the child and at this point they didn't know what happened to tiffany right so they were like we don't know if that did happen right So they said, you know, like we said, we can't get too far into like these relationships we're seeing with women. that were seemingly like paperwork and all that shit.
But once kids are coming into the fold, that's when we can like, John Douglas was saying like, You bring an eight year old into this like crazy ass world.
We got to stop this. Right. We can't just sit back and watch this and survey it.
That's a baby. So Friday, June 2nd, 2000 at around 10 a.m.
Nine officers arrived and surrounded his farm and he let them in.
Knocked on the door, he let them in, and they let him know everything they knew.
He had a farm for real? Well, it was on a farm, like the trailer was on a big farm.
Oh, gotcha. And he was... when they mentioned Lisa Stassi and Suzette Troughton. uh he they said he went paler than a ghost and they were like what's weird is he's always so charismatic and he knows what to say and he's always like And as soon as he mentioned those two, he was like, whoop.
I'm surprised he didn't continue to go with the same story, though.
Well, they told him basically like, we don't buy it.
We have evidence that suggests otherwise.
Right. Like, fuck right off with that. We know you're telling lies.
So they arrested him at his home. He was charged for the sexual assaults against those women who did go to the police.
And the theft of the duffel bag of sex toys worth $700.
That's a big amount. Who knew that would do it?
That's the thing that tipped The smoking dildo.
Thank goodness that she got pissed about those sex toys.
And thank goodness the other girl went for the sexual assault. charges, his bond was initially set at $250,000.
Then they searched his property for hours.
They took tons of evidence. They took tons of photos.
They found a blank sheet of paper that had Lisa Stassi's name on it that he had kept for 15 years.
15 years he had kept that piece of paper.
Wow. I don't even know where my birth certificate is.
Exactly. Well, then... They found blank sheets of paper that Lisa Stassi had written on, and they also found receipts from back then as well, and one of them was a receipt from the roadway inn 15 years ago where he had kept Lisa Stassi, and the receipt showed, finally, that he had checked her and Tiffany out of the hotel the night that he had ripped them away from her sister-in-law in the middle of a snowstorm.
And they said she likely died that evening.
And finally they were being able to piece these pieces together.
But I want to know where she is. Desperately.
And Heather Tiffany deserves to know where she is.
At the end of this, I have like some resources that Heather Tiffany has. become a part of and created herself.
So I'll definitely shout those out. Um, They also found social security forms for Debbie and Sheila Faith. the mother-daughter.
Wow. The mother and disabled daughter who disappeared I mean, what was that, like 10 years or prior or whatever?
Or not even 10 years prior. No, that was more recent. yeah but it's still in the 90s either way that he found their social security for like why would you have those yeah exactly They also found credit cards and credit card bills that were under the name James Turner.
There was a checkbook with John Robinson and Barbara's names on it.
He had opened a checking account with her.
I am not okay. Thank you. I know that's like a small thing.
No, it's not. What the fuck? No, dude, me and Drew have been together for four years and we don't have a checking account together.
Legitimately. I mean, I get they were together for 30, but they're not.
But still. That's your mistress. I'm so confused.
Like you do have a checkbook with both of your names on it.
And you were full-blown married to another woman with a full-ass family.
And dealing with all this in between. And those checkbooks were found in the trailer where he lived with his wife, right?
Yes. Yeah. In his, like, office. yeah snoop through your husband's stuff everyone for real if this doesn't tell you I snoop all the time yeah i'm a snooper i'm a snooper well and honestly it's like in this case it's like you had to be thinking some things were going on.
I mean, come on. Don't just snoop to snoop, but if you think something's going on... No, don't just snoop to snoop.
They also got a warrant to search the storage facility he used.
In this area. And in this area, it was need more storage, it was called.
No, you don't. He does not. So Suzette Troughton's passport application, social security card, and birth certificate were found in that storage.
They also found the 42 pre-addressed envelopes that he had made her fill out because he claimed that she would be so busy...
So we had to write those to find the family.
Imagine finding... 42 addressed envelopes yeah and also they found 31 sheets of paper with love ya suzette written on them Like as a buy.
31 sheets. I gotta go. They found a slave contract. that was signed by Suzette, a stun gun, a picture taken of Suzette in sexually explicit positions or several positions. pictures excuse me um and also a sex tape uh he made of her him abusing her ah And it was like a 39-minute tape.
I don't like that. Her belongings were also in there, including her journal. in like several like close possessions isabella luica's driver's license was in there her university id from purdue a signed slave master contract from her, nude photos of her in sexually explicit positions,
There were also tons of sex toys and BDSM tools, floggers, cuffs, all that shit.
He even had a metal speculum. What is that?
What they use at the gynecologist? Yep.
I wish you could see. Ash literally just made the like motion of it.
Oh. Yeah. Oh, so no, no. That's what I said when I read it.
I said, no, nope. I, words can't, nope.
Now we're going into like toy box killer kind of shit.
I don't like it at all. Yeah. They also found the sex toys that were stolen from that woman.
Oh, so she got them back? It was in there.
So... This whole thing was led by Sargent, the search at the property too, at the home, excuse me, the trailer.
It was led by Sergeant Rick Roth of the Lenexa Police Department and Johnson County Sheriff's Deputy Harold Hughes.
On June 3rd, they brought in cadaver dogs at the farm and eventually they picked up a scent.
And they picked up a hard scent, like they went like bonkers.
They immediately alerted officers that there was a cadaver scent around two 85-gallon yellow barrels next to Robinson's shed.
When they moved the heavy barrels, officers noted red fluid dripping out of them and the scent began to fill the air.
They pried the cover off and immediately were literally thrown backwards with the worst scent of decomp they had ever smelled. consolidated in a bin like that, I can't even imagine. the book that I've mentioned like a million times.
It says Hughes peered inside at what seemed to be decomposing flesh.
Ew. So they did the same thing with the second barrel and found another body with a pillow on top of it.
It looked like it had been there longer than the other barrels occupant.
Uh, Inside the trailer, they started looking some more now because now they have bodies, so now they're like, let's look for some blood.
In the trailer, they found duct tape with blood on it, paper towel with blood on it, blood on the baseboard in the bedroom.
And they also found hair and flesh embedded into the wall in the bedroom.
Flesh? Yep. And they found more bud stains around the room and also an impact. which is consistent with the proposed murder weapon, we will find out in a second, of a hammer.
Because it created a splatter impact stain.
And the blood and hair was found later to be Suzette's.
Suzette. So the bodies were immediately taken into custody.
They were autopsied by Dr. Donald Pojman.
He was a pathologist and the deputy coroner of Shawnee County, Kansas.
The first barrel, which they just called at first Unknown One, was a nude female in the fetal position.
She had long dark hair and a ponytail and pierced genitals. was blindfolded and she had a severe head wound to the left side of her head that was determined to have crushed her skull beneath it.
They determined it was done with a hammer.
It was done so hard that skull pieces were found inside her brain from the wound.
No defensive wounds were on her, suggesting she didn't know the blow was coming, was caught off guard, or knew her attacker, or all three, which I think all three.
All three, I would think. the estimated time of death had been a couple of months to a year.
Within a couple of days, dental records showed that this body belonged to Suzette Troughton.
Um, she also was found to have a, um, there was a, like a, what is it called?
Yeah, like I said, she was blindfolded. It was like a... I think it was like a satin kind of like fancy blindfold.
Sure. So they said it was likely like... used in some way.
And actually, going back to the pierced genitals thing, that reminded me of the Colleen Stan case.
That's a thing in like those... relationships that's the thing so that's why they were like okay this is connecting The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn. the town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, And magic.
Binge all episodes of The Mystic and the Mayor exclusively and ad-free right now on Wondery+.
Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts Spotify or the Wondery app Now barrel number two was unknown too.
That's what they called it at first. It was another female body, nude except for a sheer black shirt.
There was a ton of fluid around her and they found duct tape and fingernails floating in the fluid.
Oh my goodness. She had dark hair that was matted to her head and a pillow and pillowcase was found. on like in the fluid on top of her uh her i know fluid is such a gross word Her wounds were two blows to the left side of the head consistent with a hammer.
She also had a fractured jaw. Decomposition showed she was dead between six months and two years.
Within days, dental records gave them her identity, and it was Isabella Luica.
Now they were cooking and they want a warrant for that storage place in Missouri now.
Yeah, I have a question about the pillow.
Do you think that that was just in there Because it was like evidence or do you think that?
Yeah, I think it was probably just part of it.
It's interesting because she lived with him the longest.
I mean, she didn't live with him, though.
But lived with him amongst him for a while.
So I just wonder if there was like some sense of like nothing.
None. Yeah. literally zero part of me believes that there was any kind of even psychological thing with that.
I think it probably had shit on it and sort of threw it in there with it. that's what I wanted to ask you I literally think that's it I wouldn't give this guy even a moment of like feeling anything no I didn't think so but no What's weird is it's like he's caring by all accounts to like his children and his grandchildren.
I don't think he has the capacity for these women, though.
Now, does Barbara come out and say anything at any point?
Not really. I mean, she kind of just is like, whoa.
That's crazy. That's maybe what I would also say.
Wow. That's really nuts. But now that all this is coming out, things are going and now they want a warrant for that storage place in Missouri.
Because they're like, what are we going to find there?
And that's the one that's called Store More for Less.
And they got it. And on June 5th, they opened locker E2.
Mm-hmm. There was a lot of stuff in there, but it was just like a ton of shit.
So like what you would put in a storage facility.
But there was also three big barrels. And remember, Beverly, when he drove Beverly's car there and rolled a big barrel in there. yeah i just this was that storage facility so they opened one of the barrels And they saw a shoe, a bed sheet, and glasses.
And when somebody lifted one of the items, a human leg was under it.
And they closed that barrel. The other two barrels were leaking a lot and it was really foul. smelling in there like really badly.
Other people around these lockers actually had complained.
And he had said like a dead raccoon had caused it at one point.
Yeah, no, I don't think so. He had actually poured kitty litter around the bases of these two barrels to try to mask the smell, but like...
That only makes it worse, my dude. Come on, dude. cat shit and humans decomposing in barrels of their own fluid are two very different games.
Yeah, and also Pretty Litter didn't exist back then, so I can only imagine what the cat litter was doing back then.
In terms of how different these are, it's like one is a baseball game and the other is like an underground dog fighting ring.
Like that's how different those games are.
Yeah. Cat shit, human decomp. Yeah. But did he not know about, like, limestone?
Yeah, I don't... I think he was just... He didn't think anybody was going to look.
Kitty litter. He wasn't worried about it.
That's some dumb shit. To try to, I'm assuming he was trying to absorb up most of the fluid.
That was probably a lot of what his thinking was.
I don't think he was too worried with the smell, I guess.
The doctor that did these autopsies of these barrels was Dr. Thomas W. Young.
He was the chief medical examiner for Kansas City.
Get it. And he did barrel number one, which contained a woman with dark brown hair. yellow bed sheets, brown sheets, earmuffs, and she was fully clothed.
She was dressed in what was described in the book as, quote, stirrup pants, a tweed jacket, pantyhose, underwear, a blouse with a multicolored scarf, and gloves that covered her hands.
The woman had one really like ornate earring, I guess, and a fancy watch.
That was stopped at the time 1.22. Oh, that's interesting that it stopped.
Same with the other woman. There was a severe blow to the left side of her head that they figured was a hammer blow.
Also one to her forehead. She didn't have any defensive injuries and dental records showed this body was Beverly Bonner.
Oh, Beverly. Barrel number two. Woman with long dark hair, fully clothed.
She was dressed in a t-shirt that said, California, a state of mind. jeans, socks, and white shoes.
She had upper dentures that had cracked in half.
She had been hit so hard. There were blows and fractures to her head and face.
There was one in her head that was the size of an orange.
The doctor said there were wounds that were definitely caused by a hammer, and she had one large defensive wound, which was a broken arm.
Oh, gosh. So she fought. And I'm guessing you might be able to tell who this probably was. judging by how hard she fought against him.
Um, What we found out was that was Sheila Faith, the mother debbie faith so i'm assuming she was fighting for her daughter absolutely um And barrel number three was a female with her head down, long brown hair, younger than the others.
She was fully clothed, wearing green pants and a green sweater.
She had one sock on. The body had a degenerative condition and misshapen bones in her pelvis.
No defensive wounds, but several severe hammer blows to the head.
Dental records showed that this was Debbie Faith.
Hammer blows. blows so like wow yeah it's like really horrific to think about um After these were found, his bond was raised to 5 million, which was the highest in Johnson County history.
They soon found out that surviving former lovers of his were gay. had been given and worn Isabella's clothing and jewelry in particular.
That's so fucked. The ones that were around, some of them were walking around in her black... uh velvet dress that she wore all the time and had no idea and then there was like dark Barbara and some of the others had her art that he had written his own name on it and said that he had painted it.
I hope that that was given back to her family. at some point.
I hope so. So they were able to figure out that he likely murdered Lisa Stassi and that baby, given to her brother was actually Tiffany.
So now they're starting to go, okay, Lisa Stassi's murdered.
That's for sure. Tiffany is that baby. Because all of a sudden they're connecting these dots.
They found documents and they're like...
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Like he gave his, wait a second.
Like everybody's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
So they informed his brother Donald and his wife. his brother, I mean, his brother and sister-in-law were literally like shook to the core i mean stunned at the time they found out heather was 15 years old heather tiffany sure And they kept Tiffany as her middle name.
Like, I'm not just calling her that. Yeah. in what they had to say when they found out was Dawn said, quote, we too have been betrayed.
We have and will continue to cooperate with the authorities investigating the allegations surrounding John Robinson. we love our daughter very much since her adoption which was never kept from her We have always assumed that as she became an adult, she would be curious about her birth family.
Because we were unaware whom her birth family was, It was our intention to assist her in any way possible in her efforts in identifying and locating them.
Wow. The circumstances surrounding the investigation of John Robinson are as distressing to our immediate family as they are to the other families victimized.
Our daughter is aware of the investigation and we are doing our best to help her through this difficult time.
I can't imagine. To not only know that you're adopted and you're going to have to search for your mom because nobody knows who she is, but then to find out that she was murdered... by your uncle who gave you, who kidnapped you and gave you to your adoptive parents.
How do you ever reconcile that? And she knew Uncle John.
Right, exactly. Like, now she knows that he murdered her mother.
There's a photo of the day that they came to get Heather.
Yeah. And she's sitting on John Robinson's lap.
He's wearing a yellow sweater and he is smiling and he looks like a happy, proud girl.
Grandpa or like uncle or something. And he had just murdered her mother.
That's fucked. What? So his other family members, like his wife, were... adamant that this was bullshit and he was innocent no yeah the bodies were found on in your home like yeah Fuck off.
Because here's the thing. It's like, that's what kills.
They found fucking bodies in barrels on your. property and all the victims have their shit strewn everywhere in your properties.
Like, you don't think your husband has anything to do with that?
Like, are you kidding me? No. Listen, I can't imagine.
BGK's family. was completely in the dark of what happened, similar to this, if that is the truth.
They, like, his daughter Carrie and his wife, no fucking clue all they knew was that Dennis Rader was a good dad and a decent husband I don't know like he was fine They didn't have a lot of bad things to say.
He's a good guy. I don't know what to tell you.
No, they knew that they were going... They were going to have to go through their own fucking grieving process.
Because they... I mean, Carrie, she wrote a book about it.
Like, she's an... she's like amazing like it's crazy it's like she wrote a whole thing saying like should they had to go through their own grieving process of course you do Losing your father and your husband.
Losing the person they thought they knew and like the person they had grown up with and spent their whole lives with.
Right. And now they're having to deal with the fact that he's this monster right but I can't imagine being like no he didn't do it but you can't sit there and say that this is bullshit you can't do it so disrespectful to the families to the other victims families there's copi there's survivors that know what he's done.
So what their whole statement was, was We as a family have followed the events of the last week in horror and dismay along with each of you.
As each day has passed, the surreal events have built into a narrative that is almost beyond comprehension.
While we do not discount the information that has and continues to come to light, we do not know the person whom we have read and heard about on TV.
John Robinson is a loving and caring husband and father.
We wait with each of you for the cloud of allegations and innuendo to clear, revealing at last the facts.
So wait, which one was the cloud of innuendo?
Was it the bodies rotting in barrels on your property?
No, that's not an innuendo. Was that the confusing part for you?
Are we going to find out something different about that?
Here's the thing. I can understand his children not wanting to grasp the idea.
Of course. that their father is this. Children, I can understand, even though they're grown adults at this point, Your dad is your dad.
I can understand that it's going to be a minute for you to grasp this. the spouse you gotta just you gotta let go man you gotta let it go you gotta understand like you gotta just When bodies and barrels are found on your property, it's time to let go of some of the...
Listen, I get like there must have been like an insane amount of denial going on.
Absolutely. That's like a stage of grief, I think.
For sure. Don't come out and make a statement that's disrespectful to the family.
You want to come out and say what you should have said is like, we're as horrified as you are.
We're so sorry. are sorry to the victims and their families we give them their thoughts the end yeah You don't have to add your own little like, we look forward to seeing that this is bullshit.
You don't even have to make a statement.
You don't have to say anything. No one expects you to.
Right. Right. Because honestly, it's the truth.
Families of these monsters are victims in their own right.
Absolutely. And it's like everyone... We feel for you.
Like I feel for, I can't imagine. No. So it's like no one expects you to have to come out and say something, like I don't at least, I don't expect you to like, grieve grieve and if you need to do that silently or whatever you need to do but She stuck with him for a long time.
That's so fucked. being charged with the murder of Lisa Stassi, Isabella Luica, and Suzette Troughton in Kansas, and the murders of Sheila Faith, Debbie Faith, and Beverly Bonner in Missouri.
56 counts of fraud and forgery. They didn't find Lisa Stassi and they didn't find Catherine Clampett.
That's so sad. But they were going to charge him with the murder of Lisa Stassi based on...
I think Tiffany, Heather Tiffany helped that out a lot.
What about Paula Godfrey? Paula Godfrey, they were never, they didn't have any evidence.
That's so sad. So they couldn't charge him with it, but she's listed on the victim list.
It's very clear what happened there. Yeah.
Thank you. So February 2001, his preliminary hearings began, and Lisa Stasi's sister-in-law took the stand.
And when asked to point to the man who picked them up from her home in that snowstorm that night, She pointed right at John Robinson and said, he looks older, but he still looks evil.
Mm hmm. Which is like, I love it. And he does.
So finally, after. hundreds of motions filed by the defense, and I mean hundreds, literally hundreds, they kept doing it. to throw out virtually all evidence, including the bodies found on the farm.
How do you throw that out? They tried to throw that out by saying that a police officer, while doing surveillance ahead of before this.
Planted it. had walked on the property and taken pictures and so that violated his constitutional right to search and seizure, even though they didn't take anything.
And that discounts the fact So now that that's on the property, we need to get rid of all of that.
Yeah, let's just get rid of those bodies.
And the judge was literally like, no, fuck right off.
And they were like, that officer didn't do anything wrong.
They took pictures. They didn't take anything.
And it's a big... public like big farm with no no dressing passing signs on it so like don't know what to tell you Uh, but yeah, finally June 13th, 2002, so they he was his preliminary hearing started in february 2001 oh a year June 2013 to 2002, John Robinson was charged with five counts of first degree murder for the bodies found in Kansas and Missouri. the death penalty was being brought to the table in both states.
Good. Nancy took the stand and defended him, saying he only carried on affairs during the day and was home at night.
And they called him in the media the 8 to 5 serial killer.
That's... Which I'm like, that's not cute.
And she said he was always a great father and husband, which I believe.
Sure. If you tell me that, I believe that.
But stop saying he didn't murder people that he clearly murdered.
And she said she didn't understand all of this.
She didn't understand who this person was.
She loved him and always would. And here's the thing again, I feel for you.
I feel for you. I can't fucking imagine.
No, of course not. Which I feel like she's... I think she's just very much in denial, unfortunately.
Well, and I feel like that's sad. Of course it is.
She's that much into denial. You know what I mean?
This is just a terrible situation. Imagine if they found five fucking bodies in your backyard.
That's what I'm saying. oh okay John's a murderer I wouldn't be able to just grasp that right away and be like well fuck him I don't think you'd ever grasp that And that's the thing.
That's why it's like, we get it, man. Or just don't defend him.
You don't have to come out and defend him.
Be in denial. Absolutely. Forever. I would be as well.
It's totally fine. Don't defend him. Don't defend him.
Just don't. Um, and you know, like, all his kids said he was wonderful, he was loving, he was a great grandfather.
I mean, I'm glad that he was a good dad to his kids.
Well, and the defense said that all his kids turned out very well adjusted.
That's clearly raised well. They said they didn't and his kids came out later and said they genuinely didn't know the man that they were reading about in the papers.
Yeah, of course. They were like, we literally.
I literally didn't know who this was. That's good.
You don't want to know that, man. It's good, and then I'm like, but man, I feel for you guys.
Yeah, you feel duped in the biggest way.
That is fucked. Like, really fucked. Um, so then they played the tape in in court of the horrifically violent sexual encounter with Suzette.
The 39 minute tape. The 39 minute tape. I don't know how jurors get through that.
I could never. While this was happening... happening, he leaned over in his seat to get a better look at it and was smiling through it, like was very happy that they were showing this.
When the 39-minute long tape ended suddenly, On the film, the movie Willy Wonka started playing.
Because he had filmed that over his grandkids' tape of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
That's not even real. No, that's real. And they were saying, like John Douglas said in the book, how how perfect that was to show him as a person is this violent horrific abusive sexual encounter with this like helpless woman who they found dead in a barrel on his property and And then immediately after Willy Wonka plays and shows like, oh, that's his other side.
That's the loving grandfather who watches silly tapes with his kids.
Yeah. I don't have words. And imagine being the jerk and just being like, oh.
I bet you would never fucking watch Willy Wonka again.
I gotta go. Not that I ever wanted to again.
So Paul Morrison, the DA, his closing arguments were pretty great.
Um, but I'm just going to tell you part of it.
He kept using the word sinister for him, which is a great word for him.
And he said sinister. And then he said in that he's J.R., J. Osborne or others, always luring vulnerable people. sinister in that we've got rotting bodies in the barrels.
Sinister. and that he took a baby from her mother, and sinister in that Sheila and Debbie Faith in her wheelchair were murdered and put into barrels.
You wonder, did Debbie watch her mother get murdered?
Right. That's the first thought I had. The defense team used a Thoreau quote, the massive men... the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
And that was to try to like humanize him.
What? But then Paul Morrison got the final word and he responded to that saying those lofty words don't have much to do with extramarital affairs, BDSM, torture, and death, do they?
No, Thoreau like literally just rolled over in his grave eight times.
And he also said the misery this defendant has inflicted all those years is beyond human comprehension.
This is your opportunity to hold the defendant accountable for his actions.
And then I guess he literally like turned to walk away and then he turned back to the the jury and said, I hope you do.
And then walked away, which I was like, I love it.
I love a theatrical like. Do the right thing.
Yeah, you should do the fucking right thing.
Because it's like, fuck yeah. Yeah, I hope you do.
Yeah. Well, on Tuesday, October 29th, after deliberating for 11 hours, they found him guilty of all charges.
It was unanimous, and he was unanimously sentenced to death in Kansas.
Bye. Robinson could become the first convict executed by lethal injection in the state of Kansas.
Yeah, go ahead. In Missouri, additional charges were put on his sentence because more cases were coming in that were similar.
And so they were kind of bringing them forth to see if those were part of him as well.
He is currently on death row in Kansas. He is 76 years old.
He is serving his time at El Dorado Correctional Facility, which is a maximum security prison. in Butler County, Kansas.
It was not until 2005 that Nancy finally filed for divorce. they had been married 41 years and she put down incompatibility and irreconcilable differences.
I can't say that, sorry. as the reason irreconcilable incompatibility and irreconcilable differences there you go To say the least, mama.
I would say so, mama. So in 2006, Lisa Stassi's daughter...
Heather Tiffany filed a civil suit against Truman Medical Center in Kansas City and the social worker... that referred them.
Sure. And said that, because he just called and said he was looking for fucking...
And he was saying like unwed mothers of white babies.
That's how he was explaining it to them.
Right, because he only wanted white women.
Yeah. Which is like, that should have tipped you off.
You didn't want to help black women. Like, that should tip you off that this is not an okay thing to do.
So she did do that. They did reach a settlement in 2007.
And she split it with some of Lisa Stassi's family members.
I love that. That's amazing. And then today, I read a heavy article that Heather is married.
She has sons herself. And she has a podcast and an organization called the Lisa Stassi Effect.
Hell yeah. And it's supposed to help uncover the truth about her mother.
She also has a YouTube channel for that podcast.
Amazing. And let me tell you. I, my new fucking goal is to find out what the fuck happened to Lisa Stassi.
Well, because I want to know where she is.
He won't say anything. He will not say. He'll never admit it.
And she just wants to bury her mother. Yeah, obviously.
And I guess there's a... There's a headstone in Alabama, I believe it is that they erected in Lisa Stassi's honor to like, just be a memorial to her.
Sure. She also said that her adoptive parents, Don and his wife, drove her to that several times throughout their life like that's what always try and um She said all she wants is just to have her mother buried there.
She just wants to be able to see her. And fuck, I want to help her.
I want to help her too. But like, I want to help her figure this out.
Where would he have buried her? I don't know.
That's the thing. Does he have like places that, I mean, she must be in Kansas.
They just drained it and they didn't find anything.
She must be in Kansas or Missouri, you would think.
You would think. But now I'm like, what the fuck?
It's just so strange because he obviously didn't do that with any of the other victims to our knowledge.
Well, he did because Catherine Clampett we haven't found. and Paula Godfrey actually yeah it was like he did that in the beginning and then he kind of like where are those three right I need to know where they are.
I just hate how many unidentified. I just want to help Heather.
Yeah, I do too. Heather, I want to help you. seriously i'll do whatever i can to help you but man this case so that's where we are now he's just sitting there We still have unanswered things, but damn.
He's wild. Fuck him, dude. He's a wild, wild, wild son of a bitch.
That is... That's one of the gnarliest ones we've ever done.
It truly was. And just the fact that he was living like it's always wild to me when they live a double life like that.
That's the thing. Or like a fucking quadruple life if you look at him.
A full ass, like million life. That's so crazy.
Million life. I just I cannot handle him so that is the story of John Edward Robinson and his reign of fucking terror On Missouri and Kansas especially.
Dayum. Dayum is right. And definitely I mean, go check out the Lisa Stassi effect.
Yeah, I want to listen to that now. I'm going to start checking this out.
I want to help Heather, man. Anything. And if you know anything, you know, let her know.
Tell us. So yeah. Thanks for listening. And we hope you keep it weird.
I don't even have the energy because my brain is still just circling. none of this bye don't keep it at all this weird i feel like it all goes without saying it does Thank you.
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