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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. I'm Alayna. And I'm Bailey Sarian.
And this is like the best episode of Morbid that you're ever going to listen to.
Yay, I'm so excited. We are so excited to have you here.
Thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, thank you.
No, thank you for inviting me and thank you for like shouting me out a handful of times throughout the podcast.
I appreciate it. Everyone was letting me know.
They were like, the Morbid podcast, do you listen to them?
You have to listen to them. They mentioned your name and I was like, oh my God, are you serious?
I love that. It's just a big love fest up in here.
It is. But we're just fangirling over here.
Yeah, straight up. wild i'm fangirling too so we're all just fangirling together love fest we love it Hopefully the listeners are fangirling too.
And there you go. I hope so. I know. I know it's so funny because we were just saying like before we started recording, so many people have been tweeting lately like, oh, like we would love to like, especially since your podcast just aired, like. now it's going to happen, a collab between you guys.
And I'm like, uh-huh, maybe someday. And now I'm like, yup, it's happening.
I know, we've been like, I don't know, maybe.
Maybe. Let's all hope. Who knows? I'm like trying not to answer them, but also just be weird about it and just like, yeah, I don't know.
Just be like vague tweeting at everyone.
Like maybe with like a little like. Exactly.
There's some sparkles at the end of it. Always.
That's my signature. I love a sparkle. Yeah, I love a black heart and a sparkle was usually what I sign everything with.
It's a good emoji. Emo but sparkly at the same time.
Yes, exactly. You get it. The perfect sides of your personality together.
Yeah. A sparkly emo kid. It just translates into Ash.
The rock symbol in there. That's my favorite.
That's always my favorite. Yeah. I love it. but we actually like we mentioned you have a new podcast called dark history And for the maybe like two people listening who don't know who you are, or know what this is about.
Do you want to tell us a little bit about it?
Get people psyched. Sure. Two people. Hey, two people. you too guys listen up so i just started um this podcast called dark history which maybe you guys have come across this when researching true crime, but I know I did on my end. when researching for my murder mystery makeup, I would come across a ton of stories that happened throughout history that were just, insane, like so brutal.
I wanted to talk about it, but it kind of didn't fit into the true crime space.
And I would always just come across a bunch of stories that I'd never heard of.
And it's like, why didn't I hear about this in school?
I don't get it. Like it seems so important to just our American history.
I don't know. Yeah. So I was like wanting so bad to start another series on my channel just dedicated to all like history stories instead.
And then it was presented to me like, why don't you do a podcast?
Everybody's been asking for a podcast. And I was like, okay, let's make it a podcast version.
So this time I'm just sitting down talking about history.
Well, it's kind of like world history, a lot of American history as well, but just stuff that you've never heard of, but I think is really important.
And then obviously there's still that kind of true crime side to it because there's a lot of...
There's a lot of murder going down. A lot of shenanigans.
A lot. So much nonsense happening. So many shenanigans.
Yeah. And it's just like so wild to think of.
I don't know, I feel like it's just stuff that we should know though, because it actually still happens today.
A lot of the stuff we talk about is so wild.
Yeah, like history repeats itself. for sure.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's just mind blowing how spot on we are as humans, like constantly just receding.
And it's like, wow, we've really learned nothing.
That's what we're learning here. Literally nothing.
After all this time, we're still doing the same things.
We are still fighting over the same stupid shit.
Oh, can I cuss? Sorry, I didn't even know.
Oh, absolutely. Oh, okay, sorry. Go for it. we we like welcome that yeah But still, it's just, we're so embarrassing as humans.
It's like, what are we so upset about? Exactly, because it happens to us all the time.
We'll do a case, like a more recent case, and all of a sudden we'll be like, you know what, this is exactly like that weird case we did from like the 1860s that we covered.
And we're like, why are people still doing this shit like why is this the exact same thing it's wild yeah it always is the same thing it either has to do with religion Love or like a woman getting out of hand.
Yes, always. Money is always sprinkled in there.
And jealousy, all that stuff. Yeah, always.
And then just, of course, like, hate. With history, it's just all racism. that's all it is like that's everything yeah it's so true it's so random it's like okay so we've just hated people forever and that's just what we're doing. yeah like we're not gonna grow at all we're not gonna just try and work together I thought that would be like the winning piece here I don't know seriously we're all just gonna rest on those laurels and see where it takes We're like, we're all surviving now.
We might as well just keep going on this dark path we're down.
It's so funny, though, that we're saying that.
Because when we were in Salem yesterday, we went to go do all the witchy stuff in Salem.
And they were like, oh, like basically everybody just hated these people and said that they were witches.
And it's like. Think of all the other times that that's happened.
Oh yeah. It's all the same thing. Yeah, nothing's changed.
Yeah, they have a whole exhibit about like modern day witch hunts now.
Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. And it's when you see it, it just is like, yep.
And you're like, oh, yeah. Same thing still happening.
It all goes hand in hand. yeah it's crazy I love that for us yeah it's a really cool exhibit though everybody should go to Salem yeah for sure I really want to go for sure It's really, it's like it's heavier than you think it's going to be when you go there.
Yeah, because there's a lot of fun. Like the whole city is like witch themed.
Like spooky stuff. Witch city and everything has to do with it.
And it's like super like, you know, kitschy and fun.
But then when you go to like the real historical places, you know- memorial memorial for the victims and all that it's like all of a sudden you get like whoosh you're like this is not exactly fun this is like very very sad super tragic but I think everybody should go see it because it's amazing So it goes from like being Disneyland and you're like, oh yeah, wait, this is a real story. yeah like oh this is because it doesn't feel real the entire time you're there you know, seeing these things, seeing all the witch stuff, it like never rings true.
And then when you start hearing the stories, And you go to the graveyard, you go to the memorials, and you're like, wow.
This really happened to 19 people. That's insane.
Yeah. Yeah. That's wild. It's so wild. Yeah, I highly recommend it to anybody.
That's my little plug for Salem, Massachusetts.
But we'll switch gears to something a little bit happier.
Obviously, people know you for doing makeup on YouTube. putting it into a true crime kind of space.
So how did you think to kind of combine those two things?
So... Well, do you remember the Chris Watts case?
Yes. Yes. It's mandatory for everyone to know that.
The worst. It's just the absolute worst.
I was like obsessed with that case. And I would stay up until... four or five in the morning trying to research everything thinking i'm gonna solve it this was before everything came to light but i was like figure out like what happened And I just had all of this built up knowledge on the case and I had nobody to talk to about it with because no one in my family gives a crap like I do.
Not that it's a bad thing, but like I'm just obsessed with it.
Oh, yeah. You need somebody to commiserate with about these things.
Yeah, we get it. That's why we needed each other.
Yeah, exactly. We're like the ghouls. uh-huh yeah and you're just like I need to talk to somebody about this like yeah oh So then I was like, okay, I'm just gonna film a YouTube video where I'm doing my makeup so it makes sense to my YouTube channel, because I was doing all makeup tutorials.
But then I'm going to talk about the Chris Watts case and like see what happens.
And I was kind of nervous at first because I thought the feedback is not going to be good.
So I kept stalling for a while. And then finally I was like, okay, I'm just gonna do it. and see what happens.
And like within the first 24 hours, I had gotten like 60,000 views.
And that for me was like, yeah. Because I was averaging at like maybe 10,000 views and 60,000 was like, oh my God.
Yeah, that's huge. Yes. I was like, this is it.
I am quitting my job. 60,000 views. I'm not coming in today.
I have 60,000 views. I'm sorry. No. New life, okay?
New life. I was like okay maybe it's just a one off.
You know because that was such a popular case.
So I was like let me just try it again with a different story I know.
And I just kept going. And here I am, I'm just still going, trying it and it's still working. and it's so good it's so good it is it's such a perfect mashup of two things that you don't think would go together no Because I remember I had not, I learned who you were through Ash.
When we first started this, actually. Yeah.
It was, like, way long time ago. And I was like... what like that's crazy and then I watched the first episode and I was like this is amazing Why has no one else done this?
This is like peanut butter and jelly. It's supposed to go together.
And it's so funny too because like I would listen to true crime podcasts like while I did my makeup and then I heard about you and I was like, I can listen to a true crime podcast and get a makeup tutorial all at one second.
Like, that's amazing. It's perfect. Yeah.
It's so fun. It's still like, it kind of still doesn't make sense, but at the same time it does.
It just works. And I think the key thing was, for one, I never really wanted it to be about the makeup so much.
I don't acknowledge the makeup because I felt like, okay, that would be like crossing the line if I'm talking about someone getting chopped up and I'm like, ooh, this highlighter.
Yeah. So I try to never really mention the makeup so much, so I keep it more about the story.
I think the makeup makes sense because it gives you something to watch too.
You're like, where is this going? What is she doing?
That's true. I think you do a really good job of balancing it.
Yeah, which honestly, I kind of hate that I did this to myself because doing your makeup at the same time as telling a story It's freaking hard.
I always think of that. I'm like, I can't even like remember to make eye contact with Elena most of the time when I'm telling her stories.
Like I can't imagine doing a video and being like putting on a full face.
Yeah. In fact, there was a point where I had to make sure Ash had nothing around her. to like hold on to and like tap on the thing or something because like while we were doing the recording i have the worst add ever And I end up picking things out of the couch.
I could never do something focused while I'm focusing on telling a story, so...
Oh, totally. I don't know how you do it because multitasking.
I can barely do my makeup when I don't have to tell a story while I'm doing it, so I don't know how you do the two.
I know, and I feel like there are some days I'm like, oh, I got this.
This is easy. And then there's other days where I'm just tripping up left and right and like, who's...
Who's John Jacob? You're like, crap, you know what?
Hold on a second. There are so many times.
Because you must have to go back. Because when we record, if we need to stop really quick, we just hit stop and we're like, boop and it's like quick but you have so much more going into it so it's like every time I watch it I'm like so much went into this Seriously.
And no one knows, but so much went into this.
Yes, yes. People think it's just like me sitting down for like 30 minutes and I record and then I upload it.
I'm like, no, okay. It's like... Four hours of footage of me like, wait, what?
Where am I? What? Hold on. And then probably like days and days of editing.
I can't even imagine. Yeah. no it's the research that takes freaking oh yeah oh yeah we know all about that oh yeah yeah i mean it's fun though do you guys really enjoy oh yeah oh it's so much fun because like you said i think we were saying again before we started recording you just fall into these like little holes and you're like oh my god it's like 5 a.m and I've been here for like seven hours okay I know and then it becomes a thing where you get so invested in one case like you start being obsessed with it even more and more so you start going further and further and by the end of it you're like i should get back on track with this because i need to make an episode instead of just like going crazy into it yeah Or you think you know the episode and then you start looking into research and you're like, wow, I know nothing.
There are so many layers to this. How do I even tell it?
Yeah. Oh yeah. That actually happened to me with the case that we're going to talk about today.
We're going to do the Long Island Lolita.
And I thought that I knew this case because I had seen, like I was telling you before, the Lifetime movie.
And I was like, oh, I know everything. That tells me all of it.
That's all I need to know. That's my research.
It's like the crown. It's real. Yeah, it's fine.
Yeah. But then I was looking into it and I was like, oh my, oh, oh, okay.
Like there's a lot that I did not know about this.
Oh yeah. Just the name alone, like we were just talking about it.
Long Island Lolita is so like... scandalous sounding yeah and it focuses entirely like we were saying before we started recording it focuses entirely on the realm yeah piece of the puzzle I feel like it's a good reminder as like how far we've come Because I think we forget, but the media used to be so much more mean to us women.
Right? Oh, yeah. Like vicious. 90s was like prime time to just like hate on women in the media.
We were just the worst. It was another witch hunt.
Oh, absolutely. I mean, just look at Britney Spears.
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It was vicious. It was disgusting.
And like looking back at this case, I'm like, oh my God, because I remember following the story and then thinking, wow, what a slut, like what an awful person.
She ruined that marriage. And now that I'm older. because I was young back then.
I'm like, now that I'm older, I'm like, oh my God, We did her so wrong.
This whole case, they did it wrong. She's a child.
She's a child. And I was the exact same way.
When this first came out, I was young. And so you hear it in the media.
And the first thought I had was like... how dare she?
Like, this is just like, you know, it's, and it was focusing on the wrong part.
I was like, how dare you sleep with that married man?
It's like, No, there's a pretty big other part to this that we need to focus on.
There's a lot of things in here that we need to focus on.
Absolutely. Let's get into it, guys. Let's do it.
All right, so Amy Fisher, she is the Long Island Lolita.
Now, she was born August 21st, 1974. Her parents were Elliot and Roseanne Fisher, and she grew up in Merrick, New York, which is about 30 miles away from where Joey Buttafuoco and his wife lived.
Oh boy. So she was 16 years old when she met Joey.
It was the I think it was May of 1991. And he was the owner of a car shop.
And it just so happened that they were going out there to get the family car fixed.
So Amy and her dad drove to Joey's shop, and it was the first time they laid eyes on each other.
It would have been like a really cute meet cute if Joey wasn't a 38 year old married man with two children.
And if she wasn't 16. Yeah, I hate this.
It would have been great. And like with her dad.
And with her dad, yeah. Coming in to get the family car fixed.
Exactly. Yeah. Now a little bit about... It is.
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A little bit about Joey and Mary Jo though.
He had married his wife back after they met in high school.
They actually met in summer school and I thought that was like the cutest thing ever.
I was like, I feel that real hard. But they had built a really nice life together. he worked for his family's business and then eventually ended up acquiring the business.
They were like making good money and They had a nice life.
But in the beginning of things, they were kind of like just dabbling in drugs like they were, again, really young when they got together.
And Mary Jo found out that she was pregnant and she was like, OK, I'm done with that life, obviously, like I'm not going to do that anymore.
And she had never really become addicted to anything in the first place.
But Joey, on the other hand, was having a really hard time trying to transition into his life as like a family man.
And he kept like doing cocaine pretty regularly with his friends.
And Mary Jo was like, Yeah, like if we're going to have a family and be married, you can't be doing that.
So she just like threw an ultimatum at him. and it was his family or the drugs luckily he chose his family the first time hey one good thing one positive with joey and he went to rehab and he ended up getting clean And once that was over, he came home to the, or he came home and was the old Joey that Mary Jo like remembered meeting.
She had no idea, though, that Joey and Amy would eventually become involved with each other.
And once the truth started coming to light, she actually stood by her husband for years, still trying to like only believe the best about him.
Mary Jo is like a little angel. She's like the nicest woman ever, I feel like.
Yeah, that breaks my heart. It's so sad.
So after seeing Joey, Amy pretty much became obsessed with him and she decided to bring her own car into the shop.
At the time she was driving a Dodge Dakota that had seen like fair share of accidents.
I think she was a very bad driver. And then so Joey agreed to fix it up for her.
But then she continued getting into accidents on purpose, being like, oh, I just have to go to Joey's shop again and he can fix up my car.
I didn't even know that. Yeah, she actually like admitted it later on.
Really? Yeah, that's crazy. Well, I mean, when you're 16 and you're infatuated with someone...
You go out of your way to find them. Oh, yeah.
To see them. You will go to great lengths.
Uh-huh. I remember when I was in middle school, I liked this one boy and I would walk by his class at the same time like every day.
And I'd be like, like looking back on that now, I'm like, wow, that's like psychotic that I did that.
It's so creepy. I did the same thing. I would be like, oh, I'm just in the area. so crazy at the same time every day and it happens to be near your classroom and my classroom may be on the other side but Whoops.
I'm just getting my steps in today. Risk walk.
Heart health is important in cardio. Exactly.
I did the same exact thing. I would come down actually after lunch. a certain stairway because a guy I had a crush on, we used to work in the office during that period.
So I could just... And it was literally to walk by to look at him.
Oh, yeah. Not even to have an interaction.
And like hope that maybe he saw you in your cute outfit that you prepared for weeks.
Yeah. Yeah. As he was like filing papers.
Yeah. Yeah. Go to great lengths. Young love.
I know. We're so dumb. We're such little stalkers when you're a teenager.
We are. Looking back, you're like, Like, oh man.
It's a rite of passage. You have to learn.
It's so much fun while you're in it. Yeah.
It's part of development. You learn that that behavior is not okay when you're an adult.
Exactly. You're like, okay, I won't stalk him anymore.
Right. But Amy was full on in that whole stalking period of her life and actually Her dad got to the point where he was like, yeah, like Amy's a pretty crappy driver.
So you know what? Here's my card. Just fix her car if she gets in an accident.
Like I don't want to deal with it. So she was good to go.
And she was telling people at school that like her and Joey were a thing and every chance she got, she would stop by.
Eventually, and I don't really know like how it all happened, but eventually one thing led to another.
And they ended up sleeping together and then entering a full blown affair with each other. that lasted almost a year and a half.
And it's hard, because I don't really want to say that they slept together, because she was a child and he was an adult.
Yeah. He did rape her, you know. Definitely rape.
She is not of age. No. And he was horrible to her. he was not only like a crappy husband but a shitty boyfriend as well because he refused to leave his wife which like is a good thing, but not when you're having an affair.
And then the other thing was that like Amy would ask him for money sometimes.
And he told her instead of asking him for money, that she should become an escort.
And she would make plenty of money. And then she ended up actually doing that.
But it was like him who got her into it.
As a 16 year old. As a 16 year old. It's so sad.
That's so gross. He held way too much influence.
Seriously. Yeah. i mean now on the morning oh sorry go ahead i was gonna say it's sad because for her she's just looking for some kind of validation some male approval, so she's just kind of doing... whatever she can to, like, please this loser.
Exactly. And if he's telling her this is what you need to do.
Or this is what I want you to do. She's going to do whatever it is.
Yeah. Totally. She just wants to keep, like, doing... whatever's gonna make him happy because i remembered an interview with um I think it's Amy, where she went on to say that her father was just like really awful. that they had a really terrible relationship.
Yes. Yeah, and she said that she was terrified of him. and that she became like sexually active at a young age getting like involved with older men And it makes sense to the overall story, like, she doesn't have a relationship with her dad,
So she's trying to get love and approval from these older men who in her mind, she's not putting the dots together yet, but like it's her dad that she's trying to get it from.
Of course. And then this Joey guy, he's like the definition of her dad.
He's awful. He's an asshole. He's just using her and she's just trying to like get that approval from him.
She did awful things, Amy, but like, you know.
But she was so young. Yeah. The frontal lobe wasn't even developed yet, guys.
Yeah. And obviously there is some trauma back there with all that.
Yeah. Yeah, and she's been groomed her entire life, clearly.
Oh, absolutely. To try to please this awful man that is her father.
And so then it just like- It just translates right into- if she's not getting it from him, like, like love and affection.
Approval. and love and all that, then she's going to go looking for it for someone else.
And she's going to seek out the exact same person because she wants to write the situation even though she doesn't even realize it, like you were saying.
Like, she's not going to go find a nice guy and try to please him and try to make him happy and proud of her.
She's going to try to make this situation work over and over again until it works.
The cycle always repeats itself. Always.
So sad. it is and it seems like her parents kind of just wanted to like buy her love like when she was 16, she got a brand new car.
And then like the dad was like, oh yeah, here's my credit card.
Like she gets into accidents a lot. It's like, I'm not going to teach her to drive better or spend time with her or take this as an opportunity to like bond and spend some time together.
Exactly. Here's my card. Next time she slams into a tree, just fix it.
Yeah. Maybe we should be a little more concerned here.
Let's do a driver retraining course, Amy.
Take it as an opportunity. to get closer to your daughter.
I mean, when you're a teen though, that's like the best answer ever.
Like, oh, you just want to fix it? nice like here's the credit card yeah hell yeah I would have loved that I got into so many accidents when I was younger and I was like oops It's amazing, though, when you get past that age and you look back.
At like what would have pleased you, like just getting the credit card to fix everything back then.
And then you get older and you're like, oh, my God.
Like I learned anything so bad. Yeah. Why did I think that way?
Because you're dumb. Yeah. It's that frontal lobe, man.
It's working on getting smarter. That immature brain.
Yeah. But on the morning of May 19th, 1992, that's when everything went down.
So Amy was driven to Joey's house after pretending that she was sick so that she could leave school early.
But she rang the doorbell hoping that Mary Jo was home.
And when Mary Jo came to the door, she was like, oh, what's up?
And Amy told Mary Jo that her name was Anne Marie.
And she was there to tell... Mary Jo that Joey was actually having an affair with her little sister.
Now, Amy was an only child like this. None of this was true.
But I think she was kind of trying to be like, your husband's a piece of shit.
Yeah. Engage the reaction. Exactly. So looking at Anne-Marie slash Amy, Mary Jo is very taken aback because she was like, If he's having an affair with this girl's little sister, like, how old is she?
Because she looks super young. Like, how old is the girl that he's having an affair with?
Ugh. so the whole situation though just fell off to Mary Jo like I think she was like kind of catching on that she wasn't telling the truth because she actually asked Amy where she lived and Amy said one street but pointed in the direction of, like, another street and Mary Jo was like, yeah, no, like that's definitely not something's off here something's up here and also why is she showing up to be like hey my little sister Yeah, exactly.
Having an affair with your husband. So I'd be like, why are you telling me this?
Right. And then the whole situation, like adding an extra layer felt off because she could see that there was a black Thunderbird. parked behind Anne Marie slash Amy.
And she was like, she saw like a young guy sitting there and she was like, this just feels like super, super weird.
Now, so Mary Jo was like, how old is your sister?
And Amy said that her little sister was 16 and she had proof of this affair.
And while she said that, she lifted up a shirt from Joey's auto repair shop that obviously was like kind of a smoking gun.
And she was like, I found this in my little sister's bed.
So Mary Jo's like, okay, so there is something here to this.
And she asked a couple of follow-up questions, but she just wasn't getting anywhere with this girl.
And she was like, you know what? I really don't want to deal with this.
And she said she remembered making like a smart ass comment and then turned to walk away.
And at that moment, Amy lifted up a gun and shot her in the head.
This is so wild. It is. It's so wild. Like, the escalation that happened.
It's like... Why? And you have to wonder, you're like, why did you go there and say, you know, your husband's having an affair with my little sister?
Yeah. Because it seemed like the whole thing that she wanted to do was like kill Mary Jo anyways.
Yeah. So it's like, I just don't understand that layer of it. maybe she wanted her to like it maybe in some i'm just totally like spitballing but sure Clearly, I don't know what's in her head.
But it's like maybe she knew she was going to kill her.
And she didn't want that weight on her shoulders of she's going to know what I did right before she dies.
Yeah, maybe she wanted to throw it on someone else and somebody who doesn't exist.
Yeah. So she could kind of clear in some warped way because obviously there's some stuff going on up there.
Absolutely. Some warped things. And it's like maybe in some warped way, she wanted to like clear that conscience a little bit.
Yeah. take away that guilt she had. I could see that.
Or like, you know, we were just saying like she needed an adult in her life to like tell her, you know, like. the right and wrong thing to do.
So I almost wonder if it was like she was going there and she didn't realize it, but what she wanted was Mary Jo to believe and help her out of the situation or something.
You know what I mean? That could definitely be it.
Like finally an adult will like help me instead of me trying to like please these adults and get nothing in return.
Yeah, or hearing this adult maybe like show some kind of like compassion for like... the right person in this situation.
You know what I mean? Like not automatically condemn them, but be like, this is awful.
Do you think if she would have answered differently, like believed Amy?
Like, oh my god, it's happening. Do you think she still would shot her I don't know because I low-key just came up with that theory right now okay But that's really interesting.
But it's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder like.
Because you. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if her answer was different if she still would have shot her. but I thought at that point like Amy had gotten an STD
And from Joey and then she asked him to leave his wife.
He said no and then she was like well fine I'm gonna kill your wife.
And then so I saw like so many varying stories as to like what it was that she was like, I'm going to kill your wife.
I saw that version. And then I saw that he was encouraging her to kill his wife so that they could run away together.
Be a couple, even though I don't even know how she thought that was going to happen, though, because it's like you're 17.
You haven't even graduated high school. You live at home.
Like, how is this going to work? Well, in these kind of situations, I'm like...
You can get divorced. Like it's cool. You can separate.
But he wanted his cake and wanted to eat it too.
But that's what kills me. I'm like. It doesn't work.
When you kill the spouse, it doesn't work.
I don't understand the thought process of...
It's gonna work. Like, this is all gonna be fine.
Right. I'm gonna shoot her in the face in broad daylight in her home in front of her house.
And no, it's fine. We're just going to live happily ever after.
Nothing's going to happen. And for Joey to encourage this and be like, Nothing's going to come back to me.
Nothing will be traced back to me. I've done nothing wrong.
See, I don't think he encouraged her. I think she just said that like as a kind of using him as a scapegoat to like if we're going down, we're going down together kind of thing.
I wonder if he said it offhandedly. Like if he was like, I mean, he's a carrot.
So he might have. Who knows if he was just like, oh, if we just killed her, it would be so much easier, you know?
Right. She took, she's young. She took it seriously.
Yeah. She's going to take anything he says as Bible.
So it's like... I think he definitely maybe added a suggestion.
Maybe if my wife wasn't around, we could be together.
Exactly. since she's here, that's not gonna happen.
And then her teenage brain connected that as like, I just gotta get rid of the wife. he wants to be with me you know yeah yeah she was like he's subconsciously like he's giving me a little code here Like, even if it was just, like, she was like, oh, like, I got it.
Wink, wink. Oh, yeah. Because, again, you read into, like, everything. at that age, you know?
She was immediately like, the eagle flies at midnight, I'm gonna do this.
Yeah, exactly. So... Either way, she shot Mary Jo right in the head and Mary Jo fell onto the front steps, just like bleeding out on her own front steps.
Ugh. and Amy Fisher ran to the Black Thunderbird being driven by Paul I think it's guagenti is how you say it.
That's so ruthless, dude. It's cold. Because the other thing is, I mean...
Obviously, we know that Mary Jo lived, but she was fully intending to kill her.
Amazing that Mary Jo survived this attack.
She was gonna let her just die on her doorstep.
Like bleed out on the front steps. Yeah.
So together they sped off and it was a really quiet neighborhood.
That's the other thing. And I'm like... Like, that took a lot of balls you just sped off out of this, like, quiet suburban neighborhood.
Now... After that, neighbors heard the gunshot and saw Mary Jo collapsed on the front steps and obviously called 911, and she was rushed to the hospital by a med flight. like I said, like 52,000 times she survived, but she obviously didn't come out unscathed.
Her jaw had been shattered. nerves in her face were like destroyed, leaving her face partially paralyzed.
And actually her carotid artery was severed.
Damn. Which is weird. I feel like the case that we covered earlier in the week parallels this case a little bit.
Yeah, that's true. It's weird. And the bullet, like I said, is still lodged in her neck to this day and it's just an inch away from her spine.
So if that had ever moves, she was a possibility.
It could move now. Oh, absolutely. And I live with that.
Recently, she was having a lot of health problems, and I think that might have had something to do with it.
And to just have to live with that, like that peace. in there forever it's just like you just know it's there and it's just always like reminding you of what happened like what horror that's terrible i mean to like get shot in the face and survive is like Yeah.
First of all, wow. What? Unheard of. Unheard of.
Okay. The fact that she's still alive is... groundbreaking, iconic.
Yeah. Serious, iconic is exactly what it is.
Mary Jo, an icon. I mean, a survivor. Okay.
Yeah, literally. Poor thing, yeah. And then to have to live with half a paralyzed face, you're having to deal with all of the stuff you're going to have to learn how to do again.
One, it's always just a constant reminder.
Yeah. I mean, she goes through having her jaw wired shut because if that jaw is shattered, they're going to have to wire that jaw shut.
Which they did. You're going to have to drag through a straw for months.
It's like, she went through so much shit and she did nothing.
She literally was just like raising her husband's children and trying to be a good wife, you know?
Could you imagine like every time you looked in the mirror, you're reminded like, oh yeah, my face looks like this because of my shit husband.
Yes. you know that's all and then how do you not like oh my god and then to stick by his side too like you have to give her, I mean, you obviously question it, but like, you don't know what was going through her head.
And it's like, to stick by him, it's like, It's just wild.
She's a better woman than I am. I don't know if that's better or worse.
I don't know what that is. Yeah, I can't.
I literally can't. figure out what it is i don't know how i feel about it yeah i think it's just the times though You know, I think it was like her how she was raised and everything and like a culture of everything at the time.
Yeah, totally. But when Mary Jo's family, including Joey, got to the hospital, they were told that the chances of her surviving were very, very slim.
And even if she did, she would most likely be blind, deaf, and paralyzed.
So it was Mary Jo's mother who made the decision to actually have her be operated on.
And she was operated on for over seven hours to see if they would be able to remove the bullet.
But obviously, we know they weren't able to. but they were able to save her.
Now, she woke up after the surgery to a nurse just telling her everything that had happened.
She was like she was literally like telling me, Mary Jo, you've been shot.
You've been shot. oh like no one wanted to give her a minute to like maybe seriously that's what i was thinking.
I feel like maybe we can have a discussion about when we tell her, how we tell her.
Or even... If we're going to tell her right off the bat, maybe we could say it in a calm, soothing voice.
Like she probably has a headache after all.
And a very like ASMR voice and just do it very close to her ear.
Mary Jo, we need to talk to you. Wake up.
I have something to tell you. Yeah, seriously.
So it's crazy. And then everybody is like, Joey was asking like who could possibly have done this?
And it's like. You don't know who could have done this.
Maybe your teenage lover. At that point, Mary Jo still couldn't speak, obviously, because like you said, her jaw was wired shut.
But she was motioning to them that she wanted to write something down when they were asking like, who did this?
And she wrote down 19 year old girl and Marie. complete auto body T-shirt because Annemarie slash Amy had told her that she was 19.
The truth was that she was 17 and obviously we know her name was Amy.
Now the t-shirt started to become like the main focus of investigation at this point.
It was actually a new t-shirt design that Joey had only given to one customer because it was being printed.
And that customer was Amy's dad. Wow. Elliot Fisher.
That is lucky. It's... banana everything in this case seemed to just like fall into place somewhat that's why i'll be right seriously yeah what a dumbass but like thank god he's such a dumbass yeah thank goodness In some extents, you know?
But so that happened. And then they showed Mary Jo a picture of Amy while she was in the hospital.
And Mary Jo is totally certain. She was like, that is the girl who came onto my doorstep and shot me in the face.
Talk about like reliving trauma right away.
Seriously. Here's her face right in front of you.
Right. Now, Joey said that he only knew Amy from the shop because her father was a customer.
And he had done some work on her car as well.
But that's the only. That's it. That's all how they knew each other.
That's it. But. Amy was arrested after the police asked Joey to call her and ask if they could meet somewhere to talk.
And I think the police were like, there's a lot more to this story.
So why don't you hop on the phone with her?
Now, Amy obviously jumped at the chance to see Joey hopped in her car to speed over to him.
But this whole thing, as we know, was a setup and the cops arrested her within minutes.
Now she was held for 12 hours and like wouldn't confess.
And actually she didn't go home that night and her parents weren't alerted that she had been arrested.
It wasn't until the next morning that they got the call, which I was like, I feel like that's a little illegal. not so good but she's 17 right isn't like technically oh is she 17 now She's 17 now, yeah.
So isn't she technically quite like an adult so they don't have to tell her...
That's true. I guess that is true. Yeah.
I forgot. I mean, I still think it's fucked up because she's.
Yeah, of course. But legally. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it was a little loophole. They were like, it's fine.
But she said she like wouldn't confess anything.
And she said that Joey knew. Well, OK, so she wouldn't confess anything at first.
And then finally they got her talking. And she was like, Joey actually knew that I was going over there that day to kill his wife.
And he encouraged me to do it. And she she said like a couple different things because then she said that the gun went off unintentionally after she and Mary Jo had been arguing over it.
And everybody was like, yeah, that doesn't really line up with like anything that happened here.
So I feel like you're lying. And then I saw like another version where she said that. she hit Mary Jo with the gun and she didn't mean to and that's when it misfired and that's how this happens.
It's so hard not to hit people with guns.
Yeah. It's really hard. It's like, why did you have a gun in the first place?
Yeah. You just accidentally hit them with it.
Yeah. All the time. Yeah. I feel like the police, the other thing is they wouldn't have known like what the hell was going on if this all hadn't happened.
Yeah, because you'd be like, what is happening here?
What is going on? This next part, I think, really helped them out. because Amy had a friend called Chris Drellos from school.
She had asked him to help her take out Mary Jo.
Like she was soliciting multiple different people to do this for her or do this with her.
Now, he was like, yeah, I don't want to do that, but I'm going to introduce you to my friend Steven Sleeman.
He'll do that. I have a friend who will totally do that.
I know. I'm like, why does this? Why do you have friends who will do that?
Why do these high schoolers have Hitman friends?
Why did he know that? Like, I don't have a friend that I'm like, I won't do it.
You know who would, though? They'll definitely do it.
Like, my friend will definitely help you kill someone.
Send them over there. I don't think I know anybody like that.
You guys need to get out more. I know. I got lots of friends on deck ready to kill someone if needed. you're like I won't do it but this person will I won't do it But I got a long list.
But I certainly have a friend. Let me help you out, though.
I'm not helping you out in the big way. I'll help you out with small stuff here.
Now, Steven Sleeman was the first one to go to the authorities.
He was a 21 year old guy. He was working as a waiter.
And he was known to just be like a very immature guy, obviously.
People said that he acted a lot more like a teenager than he did like somebody who was in their early 20s.
Now, he met Amy through Chris and That whole thing was set up.
Amy apparently that she never admitted to this.
So we're just going to take it for what it's worth.
But she offered Stephen money and sex if he would kill Mary Jo with her.
Now together, they actually stalked Mary Jo's house on multiple occasions trying to get her routine down.
Oh, that always freaks me out, man. Whenever I hear somebody doing that.
She just doesn't know. She's just like doing, like probably vacuuming the kitchen.
They never know. You know? I'm just vacuuming the kitchen.
I don't think a lot of people really do that.
You know? She's just vacuuming the kitchen.
She's just doing her daily activities. She's just vacuuming the front.
Vacuuming the curtains. The linoleum always needs to be vacuumed.
She's just, she's mowing the carpet it's fine just mowing the carpet just household things just as a housewife does Tch.
But so once they had her routine down, Amy had the idea to ring the doorbell and act like she was selling candy bars for like a school fundraiser.
And she was like, Mary Jo. Well, she didn't say Mary Jo.
This is so BTK. It's crazy. It's crazy. She was like, I only have three left, and, like, I've been trying to get these sold all day.
Like, can you please just buy them for me?
Like... And Mary Jo, being the sweetie that she is, was like, oh, come on in, hon.
Like, I'll sell them to you. Or I'll buy them off of you, of course.
Oh, Mary Jo. Now, what Mary Jo didn't realize was that Stephen Sleeman was waiting in the front bushes aiming a rifle her way. damn so originally like he was going to kill her with a rifle I didn't know that.
Wait, is this on the same day or a different day?
This is a different day. This is before anything happened.
So she had been there like inside of the house and Mary Jo didn't put two and two together until like years later when this all came out.
No way. Yeah. Wow. Oh, and just wait. There's another thing too that you guys are going to be like, what?
What? That revelation, having that all of a sudden being like, oh yeah, she was in my house before.
She was in my house before. And then luckily Stephen chickened out.
He was like, I can't do this. He like freaked out.
But that wasn't his only attempt at helping Amy off Mary Jo. because the day before Thanksgiving in 1992, he actually fired two shots into the but a few goes living room.
What? And they never connected that until like years later when he admitted it.
So Mary Jo like filed a police report and everything.
And they just kind of assumed that it was like teenagers in the neighborhood or something like that.
I can't believe how many times she has survived a scrape with being murdered.
Mary Jo is not meant to go down. No. It's so... And the other thing is, thankfully... Or it's like she just has these blinders on.
Like, girl... Like, how are you not putting these pieces together?
Right? Honestly. I feel like you gotta start being like, what's happening here?
When there's three attempts on your life at this point, like...
You know? Yeah. I just feel like wouldn't you notice someone following you?
I don't know though. Because I swear I'm so... That's always the creepy part.
I'm so observant. I'm always like looking around and shit.
Me too. You know, it's like... when people too this is like my job and I'm oblivious to all of that you are like I get out of my phone on my car.
I do everything that we tell people not to do.
Oh, yeah. See, I am like... a crazy person so i def i know everything my head is on like a permanent swivel like I know everything around me.
Yeah. But I know that like, normally, If you're not really thinking about it, most people just walk with their phone, they're heading on their phone and... throw some headphones in, just not paying attention, just walking straight into their house without looking around.
I am like, looking around I check everything I'm insane I'm getting better I think I try to get out of the car and not be on the phone just in case.
Yeah, it's important. Yeah, you know, if you're going to go, you're going to go, I guess.
So just live your life. That's the thing.
Yeah, it wasn't Mary Jo's time to go. It wasn't her time.
No. No, apparently not. Yeah, so like I said, she didn't connect to these incidents until years later when he admitted it.
And now after Stephen went to the police, Chris came forward and told his story.
Now, shortly after that, another man who I guess was like unidentified came forward with a sex tape that had Amy in it.
And he said that he met her while she was working as an escort and he had no idea that she was underage.
Oh, boy. This is all like piling out in the tabloids.
Like everybody's talking about this. So all this new information is coming forward.
And it was beginning to come to become like pretty clear that there was a lot more to Amy than anybody really knew about.
Yeah. Like she was definitely involved in a lot of shady shit.
For sure. So this guy came out with, he came out with footage of him having sex with Amy.
Yeah. Yes. So in other words, he came out with child porn.
Literally. Exactly. But I guess because he did, well.
If she hadn't been involved in this attempted murder case, I think that guy definitely would have gone to jail.
But I think it was because they were like, she's the Long Island Lolita.
Like she's seducing men everywhere. The 16 year old.
That's so fucked up. You know what I mean?
Yeah. That's beyond. That's why like in the beginning we're saying like you have to keep in mind that this is a 16, now 17-year-old girl.
Like... This is a teenage girl. And that they're ignoring this piece of child pornography that they're being presented with because they're like, cool, it helps our case.
Awesome. Thanks for that. crazy it's like yeah she's not awesome but she's a child let's all remember that So that was right around the time when this started like going crazy everywhere.
And that's when she was dubbed the Long Island Lolita.
And like we were saying in the beginning, unfortunately, Mary Jo was totally pushed into the shadows while the case was unfolding.
Because everyone was so obsessed with Amy and Joey's alleged affair.
And Joey would tell anybody who listened.
He even got into it with Howard Stern at one point. that his whole role in this thing was like not what the press was making it out to be.
He was like, I never touched her. We never had intercourse together.
This is all a lie. It's like, I don't know why he thought that that was going to work.
Yeah, because he's an idiot. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. But the public was having a hard time believing that he wasn't involved with Amy, at least in some sense, and especially because her lawyer's were working like overtime to paint their picture of her as like this young, innocent, impressionable girl who she was, you know? but that was all going on.
But unlike the public, Mary Jo stood by her husband, like I said, because again, that's how she was raised.
Like, she was a Catholic girl and she was like, I was raised to stand by my husband no matter what.
And the other thing is she's recovering from being shot.
She still has a bullet in her head. She probably just wanted to get past this whole thing.
Yeah, she's still got children to take care of at the moment.
Yeah, young children. This is a lot. Actually, she sent her kids to school that day.
I watched the ABC 2020 on this. It's called Growing Up But If You Go.
And she sent the kids to school that day.
I think her daughter was nine and her son was a little older.
And it was the first day that they were allowed to ride their bikes to school.
And it was like a big deal. And her son started leaving.
And then he came back. And he was like...
Mom, like, I just don't feel like something's wrong today.
And she was like. like he was like i don't want to leave and she was like no no like do you have your lunch like you got this you gotta go like you you gotta get to school whoa and he was like he it was like he knew something was going to happen like a premonition Oh my god, that's really creepy.
Isn't that crazy? Yeah. So, that happened.
Kids are like little psychics. It's... They are.
They always know. They do. They always know.
They know things. They see things. I was the creepiest little shit when I was a little creepy kid.
I used to see like ghosts and my parents. house all the time and like tell everybody and then like weird shit would happen and they'd be like oh my god she's right yeah and you were like yeah i was like what's the kid from the sixth sense oh yeah i was cold you were him yeah you saw the lady with no body she was just made of bones she was just made of bones But Amy, after she was arrested, her family was approached actually while she was in jail. and they were offered $80,000 for the right to their story.
I guess the son of Sam laws had just been deemed unconstitutional a couple months before this.
And those are the laws that say like you can't benefit off of your story.
Yeah. So by the skin of her teeth, Amy got out of jail, used that money. and was bailed out.
Wow. So crazy. Now, she also entered a plea deal where if she pled guilty to first degree assault versus attempted murder. and kind of told them a little more about her relationship, she would get a reduced sentence.
So the night before she was set to plead guilty, She visited her new boyfriend, who was a 30-year-old guy who owned a gym named Paul Makeley, and she asked him if he would marry her.
And you're like, wait, why? Now, it was because she knew that she was heading to jail soon and she wanted to be able to get visits with him.
But at the time, she wasn't going to be able to unless they were married.
So they got her on tape telling Makeley that She was going to try and change the laws when it came to this all happening because she wanted to keep her name in the press. what now they have her on tape saying i want my name in the press because i can make a lot of money I figure if I have to go through all the pain and suffering, I'm getting a Ferrari.
Oh, honey. It's like, you just tried to kill a woman.
Nobody's going to give you a Ferrari anytime soon.
You just literally maimed a woman for life.
Wow. And her main concern is getting a Ferrari.
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean... I guess I kind of am playing devil's advocate here because I can understand Yes, it's so teenage brain.
It's right in line. That's all you care about is like getting money and like getting a Ferrari.
Those are my goals in life. That's what I want.
That's all I want to do. Yeah, I just want to be rich.
And I'm going to be. Yeah, that's obviously her goals.
She's fucked up. Yeah, I think she wanted to be rich and she wanted to be famous.
It's true because you really don't think of, and especially she's not going to think of like this woman.
And what she's going to go through for the rest of her life.
You're not thinking past like an hour from now.
Yeah. And what you're doing. Exactly. It's all about your schedule.
And I'm so sure she kept telling herself like, well, at least she didn't die.
You know, like I didn't. Oh, absolutely.
Yeah. I think that was a huge part of it.
And it's like, well, you you definitely meant to like you shot her in the face.
So. What happened if she did die? Wow, a look into a teenage brain.
It's truly something. Now poor Amy though, guys, because she couldn't even go to a restaurant without the reporters bothering her.
So she literally asked the judge if she could be sentenced sooner.
Because she couldn't go anywhere, so she might as well just get it over with and go to jail.
If you can't get brunch. Again, a 16-year-old's mindset.
Yeah. Now Amy's lawyer told the judge her home is being staked out by reporters, which is like. yeah maybe don't shoot your lover's wife in the face and that won't happen kind of par for the course But the judge did let her get sentenced early.
And ultimately, she pleaded guilty on charges of first degree assault, not first degree murder.
Excuse me. attempted murder thank you and the judge sentenced her to 5 to 15 years in prison So she would be eligible for parole after five years.
Now, when the sentencing was read, the judge compared Amy to a quote.
Wild animal that stalks its prey motivated by lust and passion.
And he also was like, yeah. It's like, whoa.
It's a lot. And he also is like, you may see yourself and America may see you as a celebrity, but this court does not recognize you as a celebrity.
Like, you're a monster. It was a lot. Theatrical.
I feel like that was also for the tabloids.
Like, there's clearly something wrong with her mental state if this is what she thought was going to be okay.
Like, maybe we should focus on getting her some help.
The whole point is to rehabilitate people.
Yeah. So it's like, maybe we should focus on that.
Especially when they start so young. Like, you gotta do something here.
Seriously. So she was she served seven years in prison at the Albion Correctional Facility in New York.
But she wasn't the only one that served jail time.
The guy that drove the getaway car, Peter Guagenti, I think it is, he was arrested and he was convicted in connection with the crime.
And because he not only sold Amy the gun that she used to shoot mary jo but like we know drove her to and from the crime scene So he got a sentence of four months because early on he was cooperative with the police and he told them what they needed to know.
So he got a reduced sentence. I feel like four months is not enough for selling.
Not for selling a murder weapon and being a getaway driver.
Being the getaway driver. I just feel like that's.
So how did she get a connection with him? to get the gun.
Was that from Joey? That wasn't from Joey.
I think she knew him. I don't know exactly how she knew him.
She was in contact with like a lot of different men.
I think she just like Like shady characters.
Yeah, just shady characters. I mean, she had an older boyfriend, too, at the time.
So I think it was kind of just... She was... around using her connections people yeah yeah exactly pulling those strings exactly But then Joey actually finally got caught because they were trying to get him in the beginning on statutory rape charges.
But they didn't think that he... As he should.
Absolutely. That's what I've been waiting for.
Like, yes. That's what you've been waiting for and you're going to get mad.
Because in the beginning, they were just like, They wanted this, but then the other side was like, well, Amy's not reliable and like this isn't going to be a case that we can do this with.
But. Finally, so he went on tour trying to clear his name.
He and Mary Jo appeared on Larry King and just like every other daytime show that you could think of.
People who knew the real Joey and the real story, they were like, enough is enough.
Like this guy's an asshole and he's just trying to become famous.
And they were like, you know what? We're going to out him.
So his co-workers outed him because they said that he would come into work and brag about his sexual relationship with Amy, who was 17 at the time that He was raping her.
Fucking pig. It's unreal. Gross. So once that information came out, they were like, okay, well, we're definitely gonna go after him.
I'm glad his coworkers were like, no, we're just going to say this.
No, but he took a plea deal. And he pled guilty to the charge of statutory rape.
He was sentenced to the maximum that they could give him for that, which was Six months in jail for statutory rape.
He also got a $5,000 fine and five years probation.
It's like, what is he going to learn in five months?
Like, you know, I can't. Nothing. And he didn't.
And especially with things like this, with like... you know, statutory rape, any kind of like pedophilia and stuff.
It's like, that's not going to do anything.
No, it's not going to do anything. Because they're only going to get out and just do the exact same thing.
You get five months. That's like nothing.
Nothing. And he said the only reason that he pleaded guilty was because he was out of money and ready to put everything behind him.
But that like wasn't the truth because he's still going on with this story like right now.
Like he's probably talking to somebody about it as we speak.
It's ridiculous. Yeah. He's like, we'll never take responsibility for it either.
No, he won't. And anything he says, he'll give you like, one sentence and be like, you know, we did this and that's all I'm gonna say.
That's all I'm gonna say. That's all I'm saying.
And it's like... No, like you owe us a lot more than that.
He wants to take ownership of the story and the narrative, but he doesn't want to take ownership of his role in the story. in the narrative of being a perverted monster.
He just wants to own this whole thing and be able to talk about it whenever he wants to and be able to gain from it.
But he never wants to be like, yeah, it was like a pivotal role in this whole thing.
Absolutely. And actually, he wound up in jail again not too long after his release because he was in California and And he solicited sex from an undercover cop who was like outside of an ice cream shop. damn so like obviously that's illegal damn it's like you break your parole like the second you get out So, I mean, I would bet money he's been doing this for a long time.
I was literally just going to say that. It's clearly a pathology for him.
If he's going that far as like break your parole for it, he's been doing this for a long time.
Oh, and he will keep doing it. He has that vibe about him where he just like is like a charmer.
Like he feels like he can get out of anything clearly.
Yeah. You know. Like Mary Jo was telling a story on the 2020 that I watched and he was like speeding around like, um, in the water one time on their boat and a patrol boat was behind him.
And for some reason, everyone on the beach was like, Let Joey go!
Let Joey go! And the guy did. So he just learned like, oh, I can do whatever the fuck I want.
I'm Joey, but if you go, you know. Gross.
It's like, how do you get out of that from like just a beach of chanting people?
Like, I don't understand. That's wild. But by that point in the whole story, Mary Jo's obviously depressed.
And at this point, she said that she was suicidal.
And now struggling with a drug addiction because she'd been on pain meds and everything for so long and This is just a horrifically depressing time in her life.
Yeah. She was super lost, but she didn't want to break up her family.
So to get away from Long Island. Girl, break up the family.
It's fine. I know. I hate that. I don't know why she didn't want to.
It is for the best. Break it up, girl. It's broken already.
It's shattered. It's far past the point of fix.
Like we're not going to tape these pieces back together.
It's being held together by like spit and gum.
Just let it fall apart. It's okay. Like everything's, everyone's going to be better for it.
Seriously. But instead they were like, you know what I think we need to do?
I think we need to get away from Long Island and move somewhere very quiet where there's no media.
Like, california maybe is a good choice very quiet place they moved to california To get away from everything.
It's like, that doesn't make any sense. That's what you do.
Where'd they go in California? I'm not sure where they went in California.
Because I'm like, there are some like little bum fuck towns you can hide out in.
It is a giant city. States. I don't think that they really like went to one of those like I don't think they're not like Big Bear hiding out.
Like, because Joey was, like, trying to get photographed any chance he could.
Yeah, yeah. So they were probably in, like, L.A. or something.
Right. right in the middle of it actually moved to hollywood i have no idea But actually, Mary Jo and Joey's lawyer ended up paying for Mary Jo to go to rehab while they were in California. because she wanted to go, but she was like, I don't have any money.
Like, They lost all their money on bad investments that Joey had made and then paying for like legal teams.
So this lawyer basically paid to save her life again.
Wow. Sounds like this Joey guy is just not great.
Okay, he's losing all their money. He's fucking around.
He's just, ugh. And she just stayed by his side.
I need to know the redeemable quality. Joey doesn't seem like a gem.
Like, what redeemable quality kept her around?
Did he cook good pancakes in the morning?
It's always those guys, though, that you're like...
Show me the thing. Show me the thing that is keeping all of these people like so entranced by this person.
Yeah. You can never show the thing. Because it's like an intangible thing.
And I think when you fall in love in high school and get married at such a young age, Especially back then, it was so different.
I think you kind of just get stuck in that role of like, well, we're We've been together this long, like we have to stay together.
Oh, yeah. I mean, everybody, I think. either knows someone or has been in a situation where you're just like, oh, we'll just stick it out for a little longer because we've We've been at it for so long.
Right. Like I dated my high school boyfriend for way longer than I should have because I was like, well...
We've just been together for a while, so we might as well just keep this shit show going.
Yeah. And then you finally realize it. I feel like the Joey guy is just a good talker.
Like you know those guys who can talk their way out of freaking anything like an affair.
Oh yeah. oh yeah probably just had her under you know his spell yeah just like wrapped around his finger and those guys love bomb too so they'll like dote on you when they need to and then so that the blow isn't as bad when they do the terrible things that they do yeah so you always And you end up like those people end up living for those good moments.
They're just waiting for the next one. So you're like, oh, I don't want to end it now because he was so nice before.
Maybe he'll be nice again. like maybe it'll happen then it happens and you're like see and then it's just a horrible cycle Well, and I think she was so depressed, too, that she was like, you know, like you said, every time she looked in the mirror, she was reminded of what happened.
She probably was like, How am I going to move on?
Like she had like no self-worth at the time.
You know, I'm sure it wreaked havoc. Yeah.
Yeah. But Amy ended up being released from prison in 1999.
She only served seven years. which is insane to me.
But shockingly enough, it was Mary Jo who asked the judge to show Amy remorse.
And she said, Mary Jo. She said quote she has shown true remorse and sorrow for what she did to me.
And she also took the time to remind Amy that this was a second chance at life and like urged her to take to make something positive out of all the crap. out of all the tragedy that she created.
And I think what had happened was She wasn't going to be up for parole.
And Amy and her mother wanted her out of prison.
So the lawyers got to talking with each other.
And they were like, write Mary Jo a letter.
So she wrote Mary Jo this letter where she just apologized and apologized and I think she just kind of tricked Mary Jo into forgiving her.
Oh, damn. You think? Yeah. So you don't think she's actually... No, and wait until... Because I haven't seen anything like...
I don't think she cares at all. Really? Yeah.
I think that she was... I think she definitely has like some mental health issues going on that she... really needed to be treated for and just nobody ever gave her enough time and listened to her and helped her.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I will say really big of Mary Jo, though.
I mean, that's a huge step. To like forgive her?
Absolutely. That's huge. Especially, you know, with her having to live with that every day.
Yeah. On her face. Yeah. In her... right next to her spine, sitting there, like moments away from paralyzing her at any moment.
And it's like, For her to be able to do that and still get up every day and have to face that.
Yeah, I can't imagine. What a badass. But I will say that Amy did seem remorseful at the hearing and in the beginning of things.
And she and Mary Jo were able to address each other.
And she said, it was nobody else's fault.
It wasn't your husband that told me to do this.
It wasn't anybody else like I did this and I'm sorry.
It's nobody's fault but mine. So at least she did that.
And then I think she kind of like heeded Mary Jo's advice in the beginning and did try to make some positive changes.
Like I said, like, when she originally went to go shoot her and I think like Mary Jo made a smart comment and then she like she ended up shooting her It's almost like she was looking for someone to take care of her and be like, and then Mary Jo did that.
And in the beginning, I think Amy was like, you know, I owe it to her to To do this, but then somehow she lost sight of it, I think.
Because... So in the beginning, she did try to make positive changes.
She worked for the Long Island Press for a little bit.
And she actually won an award from the Society of Professional Journalists.
And she also wrote a book cleverly titled If I Knew Then.
Oh. So in the beginning, I think she was trying to change.
And then in 2003, actually the same year that Mary Jo and Joey divorced, Amy got married to a man named Louis Bellara.
Now, they already had a two-year-old son together and then they would go on to have a daughter two years after they married.
So they had two children together. And Amy and the family moved to Florida.
And actually, she moved there after being released from prison.
And that's where she and Lewis planned to kind of raise their family.
But things were really tough for them. the kids had like a really hard time making friends because all the parents' kids didn't want them to be friends.
With the Long Island Lolitas children. That's so... I hate when that shit happens.
When the kids... get the flack for what their parents have done you know like that sucks it's sad and she was like it was like they thought that they were going to catch the amy fisher gene Yeah, that's like the Catherine Burney thing.
Remember all her kids who she didn't even raise.
She wasn't even around for. She like left.
Like the David and Catherine Burney story, it's like Catherine wasn't around the entire time they were growing up, she abandoned them to go with go kill people with her crazy husband, not husband.
Yeah. And, They ended up suffering the consequences for it.
Several of them got like beat up. just for being her child yeah they get like assaulted all the time and harassed and stuff and it's like they don't when they don't even know her Like she's right.
She gave birth to them and then abandoned them all like they don't even know who she is.
And it's like, yeah. It's not their fault.
They're kids. They're innocently brought into this.
It's so sad when that happens. Kids are terrible.
Parents can be terrible. Yeah, they never grow up.
So put that on. You think when you're younger, Like, parents know everything and they're so wise and smart.
And then you get here and you're like, wow, you guys are a bunch of fucking morons.
Like... You just, they are. Like the mean kids stay the mean kids.
It's like they're still cliques. It's true.
It's true. In adulthood. Yeah. it's like oh yeah I've seen it on like the Facebook mom groups you know and i'm like oh they're brutal oh yeah i don't want to have kids if this is what i have to deal with no thank you Oh, yeah.
You asked to be taken out of the Facebook mom group that you were in.
Yeah, I, like, joined the, like, town's Facebook mom group because I just liked it. first of all it's one of the funniest things to watch like if If you need entertainment, go in there and you'll see them complaining about something that is so funny and it's just like awesome.
So me and my other friend who's also a mom will like share screenshots and be like, look what they're complaining about today.
This is hilarious. But then it got super political in there and like really nasty.
And people so at one point I was like, I can't even watch this.
Like, so I just said something that I was like, can you guys just kick me out of this group? please we don't want to be here anymore yeah we have a facebook community page for our neighborhood too it's the same thing it's so fun to watch i love just I get my popcorn and I'm like, what's the drama today?
Oh, yeah. I love it. You're like, as long as nobody's putting me into this, let's see what's going on.
Because me and my husband will share it.
I'm like, look what they're complaining about right now.
I saw a dog poop on someone's lawn. I'm off track though, but let's...
I love it. But yeah, I felt bad that things were so hard for her kids.
And actually, at one point, a school psychologist told Amy she thought it would be a better for her son to drop out and just try to get his GED.
She was like, this is not like... This is not fair.
That's sad. It is sad. No. No. And it's like they didn't do anything.
He loses out because of his damn mom. Because of that bullshit.
Right. And I that was probably a lot of guilt on her.
But didn't they have obviously she's not the best name.
So how did everybody know? Because she was married, right?
I think. She was married, but I think they probably just like rumors fly around town.
It's probably like the Carla Homolka thing where it's like someone's going to figure it out.
Yeah, exactly. They always figure it out.
And she's really recognizable. Like, she has...
I feel like she hasn't changed a lot over the years.
She looks exactly like she did when she was 16.
Good for her. And once one person finds out.
Yeah, right. Seriously. If only. But I also think that getting with this guy Lewis was like a bad idea and I think he kind of took her off the path that she was on.
It was not a really nice guy. While they were married, they did make a sex tape together and it was after Amy got a breast augmentation surgery.
And but after that, they got into this argument and it was actually over Amy and Joey recently. which was all fake and for TV anyways.
But, That was ridiculous. And it was in 2007.
They met for dinner and allegedly there was like a producer there who thought it would make a really good reality show. if they were to get reunited Joey and Amy Joey and Amy wow Yes, like very, very messy.
No regards for the fact that she shot a woman in the face.
What a slap in the face. But she was into this.
Laughing a face to poor Mary. That's outrageous.
Yeah. Yeah. Slap in the face to everybody involved.
And Mary's kids. We want to watch these two idiots.
Like, no. The reality show didn't end up happening, but they did do an appearance that we'll get into later that was just so messed up.
But so also she's still married and it's like, I don't blame him for being mad.
But what he did was release their sex tape together.
Oh, this poor girl. revenge porn yeah it's a lot revenge porn Now, most people would be pissed in this situation.
But Amy said, my husband released this. And you know what?
It's out there. I have two choices. I can sit there and say it doesn't exist, which it does you know.
Or I can do the intelligent thing. I mean unbelievably, you know, a sex tape comes out and the next thing I know, I mean, I'm getting offers for endorsements.
I mean, they pay me to be there, which, you know, I guess brings attention to their club and a lot of people come down and, you know, it's a good thing.
It's fun for everybody. So I think she definitely just got lost in this whole like all the bad decisions that I make get me money and notoriety.
And I think. i love the end statement i feel like once you start making at she can look at the bright side.
When she starts making that kind of money from like TV and the book offers and all that it's like her petty little I'm saying petty air quotes, petty like smaller jobs or normal paying jobs.
She's probably like, I fucking want to do this.
I could just tell my story and get way more or like, Yeah.
And like, we're just getting rich. You know, it's me.
Hey, like, and try and get some money off of that.
So she's probably like, fuck it. Right. She's probably still pretty stunted.
I mean, plus she has a criminal past. You can't just go get a normal job.
Like... Yeah. she's not just going yeah exactly yeah i'll do porn so there's a lot working against her Yeah, she's like, okay.
Okay. Like, I'll unwillingly do porn. That's fine.
So she unwillingly did porn, and then she actually started getting into the porn industry.
Sorry, jumped ahead. So she just leaned in.
She leaned in. Oh, no, no, it's fine. I was actually literally getting there.
That was perfect. Perfect little segue. So that happened.
I didn't go like crazy far into it. But they actually they got back together after he released the sex tape and they stayed together for another eight years before they divorced in 2015.
And after she got divorced, she moved back to Long Island with the kids.
And they moved into like a really private home together.
That was actually purchased by her mother.
So there was a lot of like, yeah, we'll just buy you things.
Oh, yeah. Everything will be fine. Yeah.
And you wonder if they wanted to keep it in certain names and such.
Definitely. To try to keep the privacy happening.
Definitely. The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic.
Binge all episodes of The Mystic and the Mayor exclusively and ad-free right now on Wondery+.
Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts Spotify or the Wondery app And like I was saying, they've done multiple on-screen appearances.
I mentioned before there was one where Amy and Joey were on Entertainment Tonight and they were pretending that they were rekindling their romance.
Joey, they're in like the backseat of a car and he's like, you know, we were always in love.
And she's like, yeah, we were always in love.
What the fuck? And it's like, it was all fake.
It's so bizarre. No. Wow, that's really gross.
I can't. Joey's kids had to see that, and they were like adults by this point.
His daughter was like, how dare you walk around the streets of New York with the woman that tried to murder my mother?
Exactly. That's just for some money. Bonkers to me.
It's like, we're just all, everybody's just forgetting.
We're just all focusing on like, they're meet cute or something it's like i don't understand that nobody's realizing that there's children involved first of all yeah that they stayed married for a long time after that.
Yes, a very long time. And that she was shot in the face in an attempted murder by this person because of that man. sad.
What? He's the root of all the evil here.
Like I don't want to watch them sit there and like talk about themselves.
No who who wants to see that? Like No, I can't imagine.
Themselves. yeah they want to go home and it's on the TV they seem to be very obsessed with themselves and their story oh yeah Oh, absolutely.
Exactly. Two people want to see. Yeah. Yeah.
They both are like obsessed with it themselves.
So gross. Oh, yeah. Well, and then honestly, like as like Americans, I think we love trash TV.
So like we all tune in. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, look at that.
There is an audience for that. And people don't think of all the people affected. it's so bizarre though because you wouldn't consider that trash tv i mean that was like a i mean what other like murder stories have you thought of that has carried on to like a reality series.
It's so bizarre. This one is like an anomaly.
Like it doesn't make any sense. And he said, why this story?
Yeah, it's so weird. There were so many different appearances.
Like there was one where they reunited. Joey, Mary Jo and Amy all at once.
And like they made them like hug like Mary Jo and Amy.
It was just like. So and then Joey ends up getting angry and leaving and like storming off.
And he's like, I lost the love of my life because of her. like talking about Amy.
Wow. And it's like, no, you lost the love of your life because you're a terrible person. you got involved with a 16 year old like a gross monster i guess because technically like she mary didn't die I guess that makes it okay for them to keep this story going. technically I think that's exactly what it is yeah and it's just like a young girl involved or something sex, there's murder.
Scandal. Everything. All of it. Mary Jo has been through enough, as we all know, and throughout the entire experience, she slowly but surely started to realize that Joey was a sociopath. and she actually ended up writing a book called getting it through my thick skull why i stayed What I learned and what millions of people involved with sociopaths need to know.
Wow. It's a very long title. That's amazing.
But I can't wait to read it. When did that come out?
Yeah. 2009. Damn. How did I not know that existed?
Yeah. You can buy it on Amazon, the Kindle Cloud Reader. there you go i think it's like three bucks how dare they what's her name come out with her story before mary Right before Mary Jo got to.
Seriously. God. But you know what? She had the better name.
Getting it through my thick skull. Yeah.
I love that she was able to like kind of make a joke of it.
It was like a tongue in cheek kind of thing. yeah I like that and this is like a little bright side in 2017 she was able to have more extensive plastic surgery done And the goal was to fix some of the nerves that had been damaged in the shooting.
And she was unable to even smile for a long time.
And after the surgery, she said it was the first time that she smiled in 25 years and was able to see the side of her teeth.
Oh, my God. I know. Good for Mary Jo. Seriously.
Like I said, Amy showed remorse when it was time to get out on parole.
But since then, she really hasn't done much with her second chance at life.
And in 2008, she told a reporter. I feel no sympathy for Mary Jo the multi-millionaire.
The fact that Mary Jo has a bullet in her head means nothing.
I still have silicone in my boobs and you don't hear me complaining.
She can't feel her bullet and I can't feel my silicone.
What? Yeah, I don't think she feels super guilty.
Holy shit. Now I guess these days she's working as a cam girl.
Wow. What an idiot. I think she probably is saying that because she knows the reaction she's going to get.
I think she knows what she's doing. one she has yeah it just brings more tabloids coming brings more attention and more reporters wanting to get like a racier comment Absolutely.
I think you're right. Because we've seen like regular celebrities do that.
They put on a persona. Yeah. They go... They go with it even and then like outside of that persona, they're like, I don't believe anything.
I just say it because I'm going to get paid for it.
Even the whole thing is like the reunited thing.
She wasn't in love with him. She was still married.
She's like, I'm just trying to make money.
Yeah. Yeah. And she knows there are a group of the audience that will eat it up.
Right. And will like it. Right. So she's just playing to that base, basically.
And that is the case. Of the Long Island Lolita.
Ruthless. Seriously. All around serious story.
I think it's gross just because just how the tabloids talked about this story is disappointing.
Yeah. You know? like just that it's called the long island lolita and like they made her out and like why did it focus on her They focused on her as if he didn't do a damn thing.
And poor Mary Jo. She doesn't mind her own damn business.
Right. She gets brought into this. Just living her life, vacuuming the linoleum.
She was just trying to live. the carpet just trying to trust her husband like do your damn thing get shot in the face i'd be fucking pissed okay oh i would be i would and then it just haunts her for the rest of her life not only because she has to see it in the mirror but because every time she probably turns on the tv there's something Yeah.
And she, I mean, she can't even smile. No, she couldn't smile for 20 minutes.
25 years try to be happy problems with like drooling and stuff but after she had the plastic surgery done she was like this was like the best and she looks beautiful get it mary jo mary jo's a stunner what she do now do you know she's just still a housewife She is having, well, they're divorced.
I know that she had a boyfriend for a little while.
She was having health problems. So her daughter actually moved in with her.
And that was like the last update that I saw.
I haven't seen anything about. And those poor kids.
The kids get all lost in this whole thing.
Her daughter ended up having problems with drugs, problems with drinking and eating disorders just because...
I mean, her dad went to jail for like a while and she was probably just trying to make sense of the whole thing.
She was like nine years old. when this all started and it's not just like the trauma of like you know your dad cheating on your mom that's traumatic enough and then it's like then the girl he's cheating on tries to murder your mom and maims her for life and like disables her.
And then you have to see them like again traipsing around the streets of New York like kissing on each other.
And it just keeps yeah and the tv shows and the interviews and all of it like god like a little playing or And I'm sure they went to school just getting harassed because their last name, I mean, everyone, it was like everyone knew the name.
Synonymous. And it was like me. And she said, she was like, but if Yuko means, like, I think she said it meant like fireblower like it's this big powerful name and she was like and it turned into a joke whoops yeah Whoops.
Well, I mean, you could always change your name.
That's true. That's very true. You can do that, I guess.
I think at this point they're like, you know what?
Everybody knows us. So like, hey. What's up?
Botafuco. It's us. I don't know. It really is.
I think we're always thinking about like –
Well, a lot of people were always thinking, how can I make money from this?
So then they don't change their name. I think this is a great example. how can I make money from this and keep it going?
Because it's working, you know? Oh, yeah.
I mean, look at the Kardashians. Same deal.
Exactly. Do you remember in the early 2000s, everybody was trying a sex tape because they wanted to be the next Kardashian?
Kim, I felt like that's when, when what's her name?
Amy got into porn and she was like trying to milk that too.
It was like, Like she's doing porn. It was like right, right in line.
It happened with so many like reality TV shows. stars i think it happened to like one of the girls on teen mom like octo mom to everybody Octomom.
Oh my God, I forgot about her. Where is she now?
We don't know, but she did porn for a while, you know?
We do know that. Oh, Lorena Bobbitt's husband there.
He got into porn. That's true. It's crazy.
Everybody just like their life gets fucked up and they're like, well, porn about it.
Yeah. Well, just porn about it. Yeah. Yeah.
There's something there though. They always end up doing porn.
So what's the deal with that? That's something psychological for sure.
That's everybody's band-aid for what's going on.
It's weird. Yeah. Wow. That was wild. There's got to be someone in everybody's life that's sitting there just being like, you know what you could do?
Do porn about it. You could do porn about it.
There's nothing wrong with that. If you want to do it, do it.
Oh yeah. Seriously. It's just so funny that it's like such a trend or it definitely was such a trend.
Yeah. I think it's like less of a trend now.
It's more normalized, which is nice. You won't be called the Long Island Lolita, which is nice.
I'm curious to know what happened to that guy who released the footage of him having sex with, what's her name?
Amy. Yeah, it seems like that's just like, whatever.
It was literally just so glossed over in everything that I read.
They were like, yeah, and he gave the tape and That was that.
That was that. That's cool. Sorry, what?
So wild. I feel bad for everybody. It's just like all around shitty.
Because it's like if she had therapy or some kind of guidance when she was younger, this could have all been prevented, right? absolutely that's the worst part or just like a dad that paid attention to her and didn't just say like oh here's my credit card yeah Yeah.
Or even just a grown up 36 year old man named Joey who wasn't a piece of shit.
He was like, no, I don't want to get involved with a 16 year old.
What the hell do you have in common with a 16 year old?
Not a damn thing. the problem was he had too much in common he had everything that's the problem because he was a 16 year old in his mind so gross Dirtbag.
It's so weird. I remember being a teenager and thinking it was so cool when you would hear like one of your friends was dating an older guy.
It was like the coolest thing. You're like, oh my God, he's 28.
Oh my God. God. And now that you get older.
He's so cool. And then you get older and you're like, ew.
You're like, what a creep. What was that about?
I dated somebody and immediately you do what you just did, which is.
What could you possibly have in common? Like, what could you?
That's so weird. He's just older and he, like, loves it. me so he's just so mature and you think that too like I dated somebody that was in college when I was in high school like very casually But I remember Elena was like, no, like I was like forbidden from seeing him and all this stuff.
And now I'm like, ew like what did what and i in particular kept saying to her i was like What does he want to do?
Why is he hanging out with a high school kid?
Tell me why. There's no good reason here.
Now I'm older and I'm like, why was that a thing?
There's no good reason. There's no good reason.
There's like nothing there. It's all nefarious.
It's all nefarious reasons whether they even know it or not.
Unfortunately, it's just one of those life lessons you learn.
Because still to this day, some people think it's cool.
I feel like more people are aware that it's not cool, but...
Yeah, I definitely think it's becoming more of a like, yeah, people But at least raise an eyebrow a little bit.
Yeah, the conversation at least is changing around it, you know?
Yeah. I feel like if this happened today, she wouldn't be the Long Island Lolita.
No, he would have been like this perverted monster that he should have been.
This would be a totally different scenario.
Yeah. And I think honestly, like if this happened today, they would have pinned something on him.
I bet you he was involved somehow. think that too I think absolutely because it's crazy to me that they did it but then you look at the time period and it's like okay but They were just way too focused on her.
And it's like, dude, she's 16. Like, are we being real here?
He's like almost 40. Yeah, because like where'd she get that idea?
She had to get it from somewhere. Yeah. You know?
Someone had to like shoot some ideas at her.
Like maybe if you go kill her or something. get a gun.
There was conspiring of some kind, whether it was like blatant or subtle or just kind of like dropping hints well it's like why did all the people that she was involved with like in trying to like solicit like Like, why did none of them come forward until after this poor woman was shot in the face?
No, you'd think one of these kids would be like, hey.
Hey, dad, like something troubling is going on.
Weird, right? No, I think it's like how a lot of them make their money.
It's not good. Yeah. No, it's true. I think you're right.
Depending on where you grow up, you know, it's kind of normal.
People do it. You're not wrong. And a lot of times people don't take these things seriously.
No. It's just one of those things. It's like, oh, Amy said that.
Yeah, I don't think anybody took her that seriously.
Or just don't want to be involved. Oh my God, I know.
I mean, but when I think about it, how many times I've said like, oh my God, I hate them.
I would kill them. like as a joke, like being dramatic.
And then if something like that happened, you would be so fucked.
You'd be like, oh, yeah. Like, I look so good.
I think that all the time. Whenever we talk about a case like this, I'm like, oh, fuck.
I've definitely said like, oh, I could kill her. yeah uh-huh i'm like shit you're like oops baby shouldn't say that i always tell my fiance like nothing better happened to you because it's going to come right back to me.
People are going to be like... They're gonna be looking at my channel like she knows how to do all this.
Definitely. Yes. I'm like, please, babe, don't let anything happen to you because.
Just be real careful, okay? Stay safe. Not looking good for me.
Listen, babe, when you're vacuuming the linoleum, keep that head on a swivel.
Yeah, you gotta make sure. You gotta be careful. okay don't hit a rock don't hit a rock fly right back up at you But this was so much fun.
Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here. Anytime. Yeah, I know.
I'm like, when can we do this again? I'm excited.
I'm going to have to have you on like Dark History.
I don't have – That would be awesome. I don't have like a guest – in place yet, but I want to get to a point where I do because I think having conversation is always nice, right?
And honestly, dark history. I love. That's right up Alina's alley.
The fact that you decided to do a whole podcast on that, I am like. just waiting to devour it because that is my like bread and butter I love like old weird shit that happens it's like Whenever I come across something, I'm like,
I have to make an episode out of this. Like history is so weird.
History is just all about hating women. They really hated us throughout history.
Oh, they really did. really there's still hate yeah but it was it's like we're making oh it was real bad we make little progress like little baby steps yeah And you can see it as you go through it.
It's like, you know, we got the right to vote.
We can go further than that. in a big way well yeah there's lots of dark history to come lots of it it's gonna be very exciting And thank you for having me.
This was so fun. Absolutely. And plug whatever you would like to plug, by the way.
Where can everybody find you? In case the two people don't know.
Yeah, you can find me. The two people. Yeah.
Well, you can find me on Mondays over on YouTube for Murder, Mystery and Makeup, where I sit down and I talk about true crime story and I do my makeup at the same time.
And then Thursdays, or I should say Wednesdays, we have the podcast come out. which you can find anywhere that you listen to podcasts.
And then on Thursday, we upload the video of the podcast to my YouTube.
Oh, cool. Love that. I love that. So everybody go check that out.
Go find Bailey. Do it. I'm gonna try my best to learn from you guys how to do podcasts, because it's so different.
Like, I'm such a handsy. I talk with my hands a lot.
Oh, we're constantly hitting microphones.
I'm surprised we didn't do it while we were sitting down doing this.
Or I yank out a charger from a computer because I'm like, what?
It happens all the time. It just almost happened now.
But I feel like how do you make it translate over to your podcast when people are just listening to it, you know?
I'm like, they can't see my hands. They don't know how excited I am about this.
They can feel it though. They can feel it in your voice.
When you're that like impassioned about it and you're moving, I feel like people just know it instinctively.
And you're a good storyteller. You are. I think you have it down.
Oh, thanks, guys. You're so nice. Of course.
Oh. Well, thank you. Of course. This was amazing.
And guys, this was amazing. Make sure you go check out Bailey.
You will not regret it. Yes. And we hope you keep listening.
And we hope you keep it. weird but not so weird that like any of this happens to you and i just really can't get into all of it again but just like don't do any of this don't do it Don't do it.
Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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