Hey weirdos, before we unleash today's macabre mystery, we were wondering, have you ever heard of Wondery Plus?
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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Alayna. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. It's an ash-centric morbid.
Woogie woogie woogie. woogie woogie woogie you know here we are it's like Fresh off a listener tale.
Fresh off a listener tale. You guys have to go listen to Scream this week because it was like the funnest episode that we ever recorded.
And the only reason I thought of that just now is because I said woogie woogie and Elena at one point.
We were talking about one of the things in the movie and just how ridiculous it was, and the person looked like a sim.
And Elena just goes... He looked like this when he threw that thing in there.
He just went, Wabi-bo. And we just laughed and laughed and laughed for like 25 minutes.
I'm telling you, it's a great episode of Scream.
Wabi-bo. Only, you know, I just brought forth my simlish.
That I had buried within. And then we went downstairs and I was like explaining the entire thing to John.
And Alayna was like, yeah, you know how they speak Simlish?
They'd be like, do your thing. Wobbebo.
No, more than Wobbebo. You said other stuff.
Oh, I don't know if I can bring forth the rest of it.
Do it. You won't. Hold on. I got to think of it.
I can't. Hold on. I can't do it on the spot.
Come on. Give the people what they want.
I can't do it. Well, she did it in front of John and John was like, you're so weird.
He literally said that. We just horrify him every single time.
I love it. Literally, he was like, you're so weird.
And he just said it very exasperately. He was like, ugh.
Ugh. You're so weird. But you're good to have around.
I am. I think so. Yeah. Elena, actually, I sliced my finger open on Elena's house today and she fixed it for me.
I try. So you're good to have around. I'm just trying to keep everybody from bleeding in this house. that's my job how did you feel when i was bleeding uh i felt stressed oh okay i don't like seeing but you didn't yell at me to put it back in because you didn't make this blood no i didn't make this blood but we are blood but i didn't like seeing it Because I was like, that's precious blood.
I was just laughing. All right. Well, this has nothing to do with anything, but.
Nope. I love an old Hollywood case, as you know, and I know that we just did one, but sometimes I get a little bit addicted and I just have to do another one.
The more the merrier. So I decided to cover the case of Natalie Wood because also Natalie Wood.
A lot of shit just kind of happened in this case pretty, like, in recent years.
So see? There you go. So let's just, like...
I was going to say, let's just dive into this, but that feels within poor taste.
That's in poor taste. It is. That is in poor taste.
And you know what? If anybody watches Gilmore Girls and has watched it like a hundred times like I have...
Do you remember Miss Sabrina? No, Miss Celine.
I think her name is Miss Celine. The like old... clothing designer lady and when she sees our lives she goes Natalie Wood and I think of it every time Natalie they would what a great fucking compliment i hope someone knows what i'm talking about Somebody will.
Somebody remembers. Somebody will. Lorelai Gilmore, no, I'm just kidding.
Natalie Wood was born on July 29th, 1938 to Maria and Nikolai Zakarenko.
I think I said that right. I like it. Thanks.
At birth, she was named Natalia Nikolaevina Zakarenko.
Ooh. Yeah. Beautiful name. I did not say it pretty, but I bet everybody else did.
Now, both of Natalie's parents were immigrants from Russia, and they left Russia actually because of the civil war going on at the time there.
Nikolai's father had actually been killed in a street fight during the war and that was when the family kind of realized that they needed to get out of there.
They were like, all right. It's reached a point.
It reached a point. So his family... or excuse me, no, the mother's family, Natalie Wood's mother.
First, they went to China. And then they went to Montreal because she had a brother there.
And eventually they made their way to San Francisco where Natalie was born.
Heyo. And then about eight years later, Natalie's little sister would be born Svetlana, but they called her Lana and her last name was Gurdon.
In Santa Monica, after the family moved closer to Hollywood for Natalie's career and they changed their last name.
All right. All right. I like all these names.
I do too. But we don't like Maria very much.
We don't. Okay. Maria always wanted her daughters to live out her dream and become superstars.
That always works out really well. Except not at all.
Yeah, it's always very loving and very supportive of that kind of family.
Yeah, nothing ever happens. I would like to live vicariously through you.
Yeah, it's always perfect. Yeah, so I don't understand what could go wrong here.
It's a five out of five recipe. Yeah, absolutely.
Now, Maria's number one dream growing up was to become a ballet dancer or an actress. and a traveler had once told her that her second born daughter was going to be a star known throughout the world. but that Maria should be wary of swimming or anything like that because the woman said that she saw her drowning in dark water.
Oh, damn. She's like, if you don't die in this dark water that I see you drowning in, you're gonna give birth to a star.
Wow. Wild. And how weird. I know. Like what a weird there okay we're gonna get into it too there's like a lot of weird shit yeah surrounding this So when Maria had three daughters, she actually had an older daughter named Olga from a previous marriage. but she thrust her dream upon them as well as instilling an intense phobia of water.
All of them were like super duper afraid of water.
That's horrific. Yeah. Considering how this all ends.
It is. Now, in the book Natasha, The Biography of Natalie Wood, the author Suzanne Finstan points out that the household Natalie grew up in was basically just rooted in fear.
Maria was like very superstitious. So there were other fears that she passed down to her children.
Like one of them was that if you didn't if you pick up the salt to pass it to somebody at dinner, you were going to get in an argument, so you had to slide it over to the person who asked instead.
Oh, OK. And it's like things like that every once in a while are like, that's fun.
Oh, yeah. Some salt over your shoulder. I do that.
All that. But it's like when you're really hammering it in, like bad things are going to happen, that's a recipe for disaster.
Yeah. And that was just like one of them.
And then Natalie's father was like pretty, like a pretty fearful guy too.
Yeah. He like wouldn't let her out in big groups because she was so small.
He was afraid that she'd somehow get hurt.
Oh, I know, which is like really sad. He was he was an interesting man.
Like he had he was a very violent, tempered man. but he really loved natalie like um because that was his first born daughter yeah And they had this bond, but also he was a very frightening man in her life.
Was he abusive at all? I couldn't find anything to say that he was abusive toward her or Maria, actually.
But he just had like a violent temper. Yeah.
Violent temper. Yeah. So when Natalie was around three, she started taking ballet classes and her mom would also bring her to the movies constantly.
Now, this wasn't just to hang out and have some mother-daughter time.
This was Maria's way of training Natalie as a young actress because...
The family didn't have a ton of money at the time, so that was the only way she knew how to do it.
School. Yeah, it's school. She's like, study, take notes.
Now ballet class and going to the movies, all the time sounds like a pretty great time.
But for Natalie, this was like her job. Like it was not a fun hobby that she was doing or it wasn't like bonding time with her mom.
And behind closed doors like I said, things weren't as stable as they appeared on the outside. because, like I said, Nikolai was a very violent man with a drinking problem.
And then Maria was just always putting a ton of pressure on Natalie to just be absolutely perfect.
I hate that. I feel like it could cause a mental breakdown in a grown adult, never mind a child.
Yeah, I never understand when people are like that with their kids.
Just to have all of that on you at like three or four years old.
Yeah, they just like, why are you trying to force perfection?
No. Because you just want to look at them and be like, you are so far from perfect yourself.
Why are you trying to force it on a four-year-old?
It's like, you didn't do any of these things that you wanted to do.
And like, that's not her fault. And look, you're fine.
And what if she has like, you know what it's like to have a dream.
What if she has a dream that's different than yours?
Yeah, and you're just taking that away so that you can vicariously live through her.
Right. Like that's so weird. It's shitty.
I never understand parents like that. When it starts so young, it's always just so alarming.
Yeah, because kids need to be kids. Yeah and a lot of these kids that get involved in Hollywood they just don't get a chance to be kids.
Oh, yeah. You look at these like childhoods.
I mean, you look at really sad stories like Lindsay Lohan.
Britney Spears. You look at it and you're like, that's so sad that not...
Not one second of your life was just being a kid.
Not one second, and especially not Natalie Wood.
Because it's like, if you want your kid to be an actress... one that's not for you to... I never understand that.
I don't get it. I would like my child to be this.
Let your child decide for themselves what they want to be.
Right. But it's like, if you're hoping they become an actress, encourage them to play make-believe.
Yeah. As a kid. Yeah, like let's not put pressure.
You don't have to put pressure on everything.
It's so strange. but with all the pressure on her natalie actually did have a lot of talent And much to Maria's delight, she was discovered by, excuse me, at the age of four by crew members working on the set of a movie.
Discovered at four years old. I hate that.
Yeah, it's... I feel like we shouldn't be looking at like four year olds and being like, wow, she's so beautiful.
Like, let's put her on TV. Something about that just like... It's just off.
This gives me the ickies. I don't like it.
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Now William Goetz and David Lewis worked as executives for RKO Radio Pictures at the time, And they decided that young Natalia would need a stage name.
So that's obviously where Natalie came from.
Except Natalia is like a beautiful name.
Not that Natalie isn't, but Natalia is already a gorgeous name.
I don't know why you would change it. That's a very actress name, I feel.
That's what I think, too. But not back then.
You needed like a very Americanized name, which is bullshit.
Yeah. So Natalie was their pick for the first name, obvious reasons.
And then for the last name, they decided on Wood because of a director, Sam Wood. that actually Natalie would eventually work with.
Huh. Look at that. Yeah. Natalie Wood! Natalie Wood was born.
Now Her first big role on the big screen lasted about 15 seconds.
Fun. Yep. It was in the movie Happy Land, and her character just drops an ice cream.
It's pretty compelling shit if you ask me.
It's very on-brand for a four-year-old, I will say that.
You could do it. She probably nailed it.
Yeah, she was awesome at it. And around that time, Natalie caught the attention of a famous director called Irving Pitchell.
I don't know. That she better make Mr. Pitchell love her.
Oh, God. She was like, you have to make him love you.
Like, why are we teaching a five-year-old that?
Nope. Now, of course Natalie did. Oh, that's so gross.
Oh, it gets fucking weirder because Natalie like totally like she worked it, whatever.
I mean, she's five. She's trying to make her mom happy.
Right. And Irving Pitchell like took a liking to her.
And I didn't find anything that said it was like in a creepy way.
But this is like super weird. He wanted to adopt her.
And he went as far as sending attorneys to Natalie's childhood home in hopes to adopt her.
Was this like, was there like a citizenship?
No, she was born in the United States. No, she was born in the U.S.
I'm very confused. It was so weird. Now, here's the thing.
It was in that book that I mentioned before that I'll link in the show notes.
And different sources were like, yeah, I heard a different version of that story.
Like, I heard that like actually he just like made a joke about it and then nothing came of it.
And basically what people said is that like Maria would embellish stories.
And like Lana, her Natalie's younger sister was like, yeah, I remember like that joke, but I don't.
And I remember like him coming over to like. like meet our family but nothing like no attorneys like oh my goodness i want to adopt you yeah exactly And it was like... Very weird.
Yeah. So weird. Super duper weird. Yeah.
While Irving Pitchell later did help Natalie get cast in a larger role in the movie, Tomorrow is Forever.
Now for the role, she needed to know how to cry on cue.
But as a five year old, as a five year old.
But because I literally my next sentence is because she was a five year old and lack formal training she didn't know how to cry on cue no but that's okay because maria knew how to make somebody cry Oh, I'm sure Maria knew how to make somebody cry.
She did. She just took little five year old Natalie aside.
And she said that maybe you should picture the childhood or excuse me, the family dog dying.
And, oh no, no, no, we're not done yet. Because when that didn't really work, There was a butterfly in a jar on set and Maria took it out of the jar and ripped its wings off in front of Natalie.
And so Natalie started crying and Maria grabbed her arm and said, she's ready now. and tossed her on set after ripping a butterfly's wings off in front of her maria you're Fucking horrific.
Yeah, you suck. You're a horrible monster, Maria.
What? What? What? I can't even... I just...
I can't even form words. I can't imagine somebody doing that to a child that they don't have a relationship with.
No. Like somebody on set. Who's ripping wings off of a butterfly?
You have to be an evil monster to do that, especially as an adult.
Yes. Like, kids don't even do that. And then to just make her upset and grab her by the arm and be like, oh, she's ready now.
Like... Like, you literally destroyed your child, made her cry.
Yes. Yes. She gave her a horrible image to have stored in her memory forever.
Two, because now she's picturing her dog dying.
Oh, wow. I'm very angry. I feel very bad for Natalie Wood.
It's awful and you're gonna feel even worse by the end of this like life just failed natalie wood man Now, Tomorrow is Forever ended up being a huge success, and it led to Natalie not only having psychological damage from her mother's display of animal cruelty.
Yeah. but also a contract with 20th Century Fox on a lighter note.
Oh, good. And another role that would be her biggest yet.
I don't know if you've seen this movie. It's Miracle on 34th Street.
Oh no, I've never heard of it. Yeah. Pretty big movie.
It's pretty big. So yeah. Yeah, that was her biggest role.
And then from then on, Natalie's roles were kind of just like falling into her lap coming constantly because that was such a big movie.
She was in at least 31 films over the course of her career, and some people say over 50.
Wow. Which is a lot of freaking movies. Wow.
That's a lot. Yeah, she died when she was 43 years old.
I was going to say, how old was she? Wow.
Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, that's like a movie a year if you think about it.
Yeah. Wild. Damn. So Maria must have been happy.
I was going to say. And at one point she actually spoke to a reporter about Natalie and she told him, God made Natalie.
I invented her. Wow. Like, okay, Regina George.
I don't even know. I don't even know how that works.
God made her, but I invented her. Because God made Natalia, like technically.
And she's saying like, I invented Natalie.
Exactly. Oh, but it's like we're not talking about like someone like that.
You're their manager. You're her mom. And she's a child.
Like, she's Natalia. And she's a little baby child.
You didn't invent anything. She's still Natalia, your child.
Yeah, exactly. Wow. Yep. She really sees her as a commodity.
Oh, she absolutely does and so does Hollywood because as we all know, Hollywood's bright lights are just mainly there to cast dark shadows that aid in destroying childhood innocence.
I wrote that sentence myself. That was beautifully said.
Thank you so much. I stumbled a little bit over it, but I felt so good when I typed it on my computer.
It was powerful. Now, Natalie was no different than most of the child stars that we've talked about before and she faced more than her fair share of trauma at the hands of adults who like should have done better for her yeah Apparently, when she was 15 years old, people literally say that her mother, like, quote unquote, pimped her out to Frank Sinatra. who was 38 years old at the time.
I hate everything about this. Natalie was on set of The Silver Chalice and Frank came into the studio to shoot a different movie that he was doing.
And when Maria and Natalie noticed him, Maria suggested that Natalie go introduce herself.
And when she did, Frank invited her and Maria to a party at his house.
So Natalie was encouraged by her mother to go by herself because it would be good for her career. maria but there was definitely like an underlying worse and worse And it only gets worse.
It was later speculated that Maria turned a blind eye to the fact that 16-year-old Natalie was having a quote-unquote affair with a director named Nicholas Ray on the set of this movie called Rebel Without a... rebel without a cause oh this movie this movie this movie rebel without a cause i don't know if you've ever seen it again All of the movies that she's in are like, you know, just this movie.
Just that movie. But I say affair because she was 16 and he was 44.
A whole ass grown man. Which is like a fair or assault?
A fair or assault? Well, assault. Let you decide.
Because there's rumors that Natalie was pressured into sleeping with Nicholas Ray to prove that she could do a film like Rebel Without a Cause.
Because Rebel Without a Cause was a lot different than her usual roles.
She usually was cast in like younger roles and obviously in a more innocent light. so they were like people point out that that's why this happened that's like initiation she had to prove herself you have to sleep with an old director Jesus.
But there's other rumors. And Natalie actually confided in some of her friends and her mother that Nicholas Ray had raped her.
Yeah. Which he did. That's what that is.
No matter what. However old man. is having sex with a 16-year-old.
A 44-year-old man. Now, he lured her into a hotel room under the guise that they were going to talk about the script. but it ended up being a trick, and her friends were horrified.
But when she told her mother, which she didn't even want to, According to Suzanne Finstan's biography, quote, her mother, excuse me, her mother, quote, Thought it was great that Natalie spent a night with Mr. Showbiz.
Like, no, she didn't spend the night with him.
She was raped. I literally have no words for Maria.
I have none. It's unreal. I don't like that's...
I just feel like Natalie was probably so sad all the time.
She was. And she just had like so many like emotional problems.
Like the doll, she used to have these little like cutout dolls in her room and she. would like talk to them and she thought that they were talking back to her like a little bit too old and to her.
Because she's been like traumatized. yeah she's living a life of trauma she feels like her mother is instigating it and she feels like she doesn't have anybody because really who does she have to go to for safety Because when you get successful like that, we've heard every single star say it.
That like, although they're surrounded by a ton of people, they feel like they can't trust anyone.
They feel like no one really likes who they are.
They just want to be around all the success and yay.
And so they're totally alone. And sometimes the only people those people have are, one, their true friends, the friends that have been there, or their family.
And she doesn't even have that. She has like nothing.
She has nobody. Like who do you turn to?
Like she must have felt completely alone.
I can't imagine. I feel so bad for her. So that happened to her.
She tells her mom and her mom is like, Oh, I'm glad you spent the night with him.
Like, that'll be wonderful. That's good for your career.
And that's all I give a fuck about. Jeez.
Now, Natalie didn't officially get the role after that.
He just, like, kept her waiting and... bunch of big names were trying out for this particular role.
And it wasn't until she got in a really bad car accident and had the responding officers call Nick Ray that she got the role.
Because when he got to the hospital, she told him that they called her a delinquent.
And she was like, am I rebellious enough now?
They called me a delinquent. And he was like, yes.
Am I rebellious enough now? She literally was like, can I have the fucking role now?
Jeez. And apparently that was sufficient in his eyes and she was cast.
Oh, good. All she had to do was get in a car accident.
That's good. Yeah. And be raped. Yeah. Now later she was nominated for an Academy Award for the role.
Wow. Yes. She later reminisced on her childhood and said of it, quote, Ugh.
But it's, her mother taught her that when she was four.
She was like, be nice to that guy over there and like maybe you'll become a big Hollywood star.
Oh yeah, that's literally like just... Here's what you're worth.
So that's all that men are going to see you as.
Yep. And you just need to work it. Work it.
And it's like, jeez. And bring home your paycheck to me because you're literally like feeding this family.
You don't treat your child that way. No, your child is not supposed to make you money.
No. that's not a reason to have children.
Like just, I hate that. It's like you, that's not your second shot at success is no spawning.
That's not, It makes me crazy. Like let them have their own life.
Yeah, it's like I just don't understand looking at a sweet little baby and being like, You know what?
Let's make you famous. Exactly. Let's put you in the Hollywood machine where everything is happy.
Like, let's make you start working at the age of four.
I think that sounds like a really good idea. you can retire early yeah you'll retire early but you're gonna work all through those toddler years And then you're not going to have a fun retirement because you're going to be working through a lot of psychological trauma.
And then you're going to be traumatized and aged well beyond your years.
Yes, correct. Yeah. I couldn't even... When we got Bailey, like dog Bailey...
She was the most beautiful puppy I'd ever seen in my entire life.
Absolutely. And everybody would always stop us and say how beautiful she was, and they were like, oh my god. god you should like she should be in commercial show dog and i remember john and i were like well that'd be so cool if we could like she would be in commercials.
And then we literally sat there and we're like, I couldn't make her do that.
No. And she's a dog. Like I was upset about, I was like, we could never do that to you. buh-bye, you gotta just live your life.
And it's like, so I can't imagine doing it to my children.
No. money off of you like go to work jeez You know what's even more stressful than a packed calendar?
Realizing you're out of coffee right before a meeting.
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The sale ends 831. Don't miss it. And just teaching them that you can get whatever you want from men if you're nice to them.
Yeah, what an awful, awful, awful thing to teach, especially your daughter.
Yeah. Not good. No. But Natalie did have a lot of different men in her life over the years, but she was a bad bitch.
She got... to hang out with Elvis Presley.
Oh, okay, Natalie. Dennis Hopper and Nikki Hilton. who apparently is like not that awesome.
She was once engaged to her high school sweetheart.
But Maria knew that a regular guy just wouldn't do for Natalie Wood.
Just wouldn't. do and natalie like wanted to get married like she took the ring and she was planning on getting married maria made her return the ring And then the guy was so heartbroken that he attempted to kill himself.
Oh, my God. Yes. Maria's just ruining lives everywhere.
Maria. Her reach is so far. It's... She's wild.
She's a far-reaching evil hag. Yeah, she stinks on ice.
In 1957, Natalie got married, though. And she got married to actor Robert Wagner.
Oh yes. Just that guy. Just that guy. Little did she know, though, she had... Damn it.
Little did he... You're like, damn it, I missed it.
Gosh. I don't know if you guys have been listening to the ads.
I don't know if one has hit yet, but like, wow, I really I was really trying so hard, but I just couldn't speak.
You know what? One of our Patreons, I wish I remembered the name of who said it, but it was hilarious.
And if you're listening, I'll try to shout you out next time.
Because during our listener tales episode last night.
I just was like stumbling over my words.
I could not speak. There was a few times I was like, what is happening with my mouth right now?
I think you gave it to me. And one of our Patreon, I call them Patreons all the time.
Patronus. Patronus. uh she said she said she calls it having rented lips when that happens she's renting your lips and i was like that I like that.
I guess I didn't pay my rent this month.
Yeah, having rented lips. They're not mine.
I'm just trying them out. I like that and they're not working out for me.
I want my lips back. But little did he know...
She had actually seen him on set years previous.
She was like 11 and he was 20. There's eight years between them.
But she went and asked for his headshot at the studio.
And then later on, she taped it up in her bedroom wall.
And she told her mom that someday she was going to marry him.
Oh, my God. And then she fucking did. That's like Katie Holmes and Tom Cruise.
Remember when she said that? I was like, that's weird.
I think that's weird for different reasons.
Poor Katie Holmes. Oh, I love it. Now when they cross paths again, she was 18 and he was 26 and they hit it off.
At the time, Natalie was kind of dating around a bit, and she actually had to choose between Robert and Nikki Hilton.
Wow. Her friends were all trying to help her make the right decision, and they were delicately warning her. that they had heard rumors that Robert Wagner wasn't necessarily straight.
Now, Unfortunately, at that time, the controversy surrounding having different sexual preferences wouldn't have been good for Natalie's career.
Yeah. Like, that's so fucked up, but it was a thing.
But it was a thing. But according to Natalie, that was not the truth. no like i don't think so i think it's fine and he's really handsome and i really like him and i don't care Yeah, like, whatever.
Because even at that time, it's like, you know, could he be bi?
Like, can't he like both? That's like basically what the rumors were.
They were saying that he was either bi or gay.
Yeah. And it's like, all right. Like, okay.
He's obviously bi if he wants to marry me.
He's into me, so that's fine. right she's like i'm not a man so i think it'll work i'm into it and she was in love yeah Or at least she thought she was.
Because one of her friends who was worried about the relationship said, and they call him RJ.
So at different points in this, I'll call him RJ. okay quote rj presented such a grandiose thing she was in love with love and he was extremely handsome, surfacely extremely charming, and she was being pushed by all sides, studio, mama, everybody.
And it seemed almost, you know, when things almost seem too perfect, I told her nothing's that perfect.
Seems like he love bombed. Yeah, he love bombed a little bit, I guess.
And Maria told Natalie, so she kind of like pressured her into getting married, but I don't think she wanted her to pick Robert.
Because Maria told Natalie before she married Robert, quote, no good will come of this. whoa that's like the one thing that she wasn't wrong it's like the one thing and And that's where I was saying earlier, it's kind of spooky how much foreshadowing there is in her life when you look back at it.
There's a lot. You guys have to read this book and I'm going to link into the show notes.
There's just like little things that you'll be like.
What the fuck? It was like a sign, kind of.
Even the ripping the wings off a butterfly has some kind of symbolism in there.
Yeah, it's like when you think about it, Natalie's wings were ripped off of her.
It's just like this innocent thing, this innocent, beautiful thing and you're ripping its wings. off like just it has like a whole symbolic thing it really does the whole thing i'm like this doesn't seem real No, it really doesn't.
I wish it wasn't. I also wish that, but this is a true crime podcast.
Unfortunately. Now, no matter what her friends or her mother thought though, Natalie was gonna marry Robert.
He had proposed by putting a pearl and diamond ring in the glass of... Fuck, why can't I talk?
Like... I'm just saying regular things.
He had proposed by putting a pearl and diamond engagement ring in a glass of champagne for Natalie.
I always get scared with that because someone's going to choke.
That's so funny because I thought the exact same thing.
And also like I don't want my ring to be sticky.
That's true. Not that champagne is like sticky, but like it might be if it dries.
When it dries. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And once it was announced, the media went bonkers because these were two like it people individually.
And then you put them together and boom.
Oh, yeah. Brangelina of their time. Exactly.
Exactly. And like you said, from that point on, they were the it couple of the time.
But were things all that great? Probably not.
No. I'm thinking no. No. No. Things really didn't go that well the first time around and the marriage actually ended pretty abruptly after just four years.
Oh, wow. Yeah, everyone had their speculation as to what ruined things.
Team Robert rumored a cheating scandal on Natalie's part. with her co-star Warren Beatty.
Warren Beatty, you mean? Did you really just not know who Warren Beatty is?
I don't know. And anyways, Team Natalie.
Oh, God, I don't want to go on Twitter for like weeks now.
Warren, is it Beatty? Yeah, Warren Beatty.
I know that name. Yeah. I do. Well, everybody thought that she was cheating on Robert with Lauren.
She probably was. That's awesome. i don't know poor baby she said no no that she wasn't no Team Natalie surmised that Natalie had found Robert in bed with another man.
Oh. And the people closest to Natalie were told the latter, that she had found him in bed with another man And literally like suffered a mental breakdown that actually sadly led to a suicide attempt on her part.
Oh, that's so sad. Yeah. Now, luckily, Natalie was brought to the hospital and she was given treatment.
She actually was in a coma. Oh my god. From this, yeah.
She swallowed a bunch of pills. But everything started to get better.
She started to do like really intense therapy multiple times a week and she probably needed it for everything that she had gotten. through up to this point yeah not just the sudden end to her marriage I would say so Because I don't really think that this mental breakdown was only over the fact that her husband was cheating on her.
I think it was... her entire life up to this point was catching up to her.
Yeah. I mean, from when she was a toddler. literally from literally probably when she came out of the womb yeah like let's be honest straight out of the womb Now, both Natalie and Robert married other people and had children with them, actually.
Natalie had her daughter Natasha with Richard Gregson, a Hollywood producer, and Robert had his daughter Katie with actress Marion Marshall.
Now, both of the remarriages were actually pretty short-lived, and when they ended, Natalie and Robert rekindled things with each other.
Hmm. Natalie had only been divorced three months at that point, but she said that she and Robert never stopped loving each other. all which i was like that's cute sweet until we get to the end also this is warren baity just so you know Oh, damn.
What we're working with. What the fuck? I'd be cheating on everyone with him.
I mean, like, he's aged now. But, like...
That was him then. I figured that wasn't him present day.
Just to make everything clear. I don't know what I was trying.
Transparency. Yeah, transparency. He's a babe.
He is. Now, they got remarried in 1972.
Natalie said like to both of their surprise, like, I don't think Either of them went in planning on this, but it's just what happened.
Romance, am I right? Yeah, from the sounds of it, they got together to talk about things.
And their time spent apart, like they talked about that, and I think they realized that they both grew up in different ways.
That's good. And they both became kind of like different people and they worked better together this time.
They evolved into people that could be in a relationship together.
Yeah. And I think something that kind of helped at the time was that Natalie's career was slowing down a bit. she was still like a beloved actress.
And honestly, her career slowing down is just like, everybody's regular career in Hollywood because she was wilding for a minute.
She's bringing it to average. But now she wanted to focus on like her little blended family and being a mama and a wife again.
She and Robert were pregnant within the first two years of getting back together. things kind of seemed like a fairy tale this time around.
Like they blended their family and things were going well.
But also it kind of seemed like that the first time around, too.
And then it was just like, whoosh. whoosh no this time it was robert's career that was wild and He was working on It Takes a Thief, and then later he got his biggest break starring in Heart to Heart, which premiered in 1979.
So he was working a ton and now Natalie wasn't.
So I could kind of see why that would like cause some problems.
Yeah, the power shifts a little bit. It does.
But Natalie was still working. She was going back to work and she was working on the movie that would be her last brainstorm. now filming for brainstorm started in september of 18 of 1981. i was like whoa of 1891.
She looks great for now. Apparently I borrowed dyslexia from someone.
She was to co-star with Christopher Walken, who was also a fucking babe.
Oh, yeah. Christopher Walken was like... like take your breath away kind of handsome.
I, cause everybody was like, everything I read was saying that.
And I, cause I know what he looks like from like Stepford wives.
And I was like, is everybody sure and then I looked and I was like oh bitch Oh, yeah.
You type in young Christopher Walken. I did.
I typed in young Chris and the first thing that came up was Christopher Walken. you like because everybody's like what now wow yeah he was like a beautiful beautiful man he was let's look Yeah.
Look it, he's pretty. It's the eyes and it's the jaw.
Yeah, he's got a Bowie-esque kind of shape to his face.
He does, you're right. Which is just pretty.
Somebody put a picture of him next to Scarlett Johansson and I was like, wow, that's like really fucking weird.
Oh, it's scary. Yeah. When you put them on top of each other.
They have the same exact face. Yeah. They do.
Why does that happen? They're both beautiful.
Gorgeous. Now, it was widely known, however... that Robert Wagner was a pretty jealous man, and Christopher Walken and Natalie were going to be playing a pair of married scientists.
Oh, I love that. That's hot. As I was reading about this movie, I was like, Elena needs to see that.
But that wasn't going to go well because he was so jealous.
Now, people always want some kind of cheating scandal, but there's a lot of controversy surrounding their alleged affair.
Like some people are like, oh, for sure.
And then other people are like, I don't think so at all.
Because Lana would, Natalie's younger sister said, quote, I don't know if Natalie's love affair with Chris was imaginary or real.
Oh, yeah. But like even that is like. That's still pretty spicy.
That's not allowed. That's an emotional affair.
That's not okay. There's something there.
But then the director of Brainstorm. Do I blame her?
No. No. I mean, like, it's fucking Christopher Walker.
Yeah, what? Walker. Jesus Christ. I mean, I'm not saying I would right now.
I'm saying in Natalie's shoes, I'm like, I get it.
I want to return these rented lips. Everyone's going to be like, hey, Ash, are you okay?
Are you all right? And guess what? The answer is always no.
The answer is Warren Beatty. I just said your suck.
It's not even my notes I can't read. It's like the thoughts in my brain that just cannot compute.
That's what happened to me last night. I couldn't catch up with my own brain.
At least it was listener tales. The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims He's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic.
Binge all episodes of The Mystic and the Mayor exclusively and ad-free right now on Wondery Plus.
Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts Spotify or the Wondery app. but the director of Brainstorm, Douglas Trumbull, recalled that there was, quote, almost no physical charisma between them at all.
And actually on set during this sex scene that they had to film, he was like, no.
That's when I realized that they definitely weren't having an affair because Like, holy shit, it was horrible.
Like, is this how you imagine two scientists having sex?
It's very rigid. It's not good. Let's get a test tube and try this out somewhere else.
But if Robert was so jealous of Christopher Walken...
Why would he invite them out on he and Natalie's yacht in the first place?
Why? Because we're getting to the yacht.
I gotta know. Robert and Natalie's yacht was named Splendor.
Splendor. Splendor. And they decided to invite Christopher Walken out on the boat for a Thanksgiving weekend getaway in November of 1981.
As one does. if you're super jealous of him like why are you inviting him yeah i know i would definitely not do that the world may never know they were gonna cruise over to Catalina Island and they were gonna just have like a nice little getaway together.
Christopher actually wasn't the only guest invited for this weekend, but a lot of the other guests turned on the invite because they were like, It's going to be like real choppy this weekend.
Are you guys sure you want to go out? Seasickness is not on my agenda.
I am all set. And they were like, motherfuckers, this is a yacht.
We'll be fine. Like, who cares? No, thanks.
Look at me on land. Here I am. But instead, just the three actors and Captain Dennis Davern set out for the island.
And just a little side note, this is another weird thing.
Natalie's daughter, Natasha, was like, freaking out that they were going away.
She did not want her mom to get on the boat.
But Natalie didn't want her daughter to have the fear that her mom instilled in her about the water.
Oh, no. so she was like it's okay like i'll come back i'll be back like i i always come back I'd be like, you know, it's like I understand the fear thing, but it's like choppy water is choppy water.
Choppy water is choppy water. No, that's not fear.
That's just like... being smart. That's just rationalization.
Let's just not go on choppy water. Isn't that sad?
Her daughter was worried about her going.
Yeah, and it was her own trauma that was stopping her from... like making a rational decision for herself.
Yeah. So the first night was the Friday after Thanksgiving and this night just seemed to be like really fucking weird, like overall.
Yeah. Yeah. Because the day was completely normal, everyone went ashore to do some shopping, but then the night brought a lot of tension.
Robert and Natalie were arguing, apparently because Robert wanted to move the boat. and Natalie was too afraid to because the swells were getting really high, so he was like we need to get out of this area and she was like no like i just want to stay here like i don't want to maneuver the boat in this water And so they were arguing about it, which I feel like I would probably just like want to like get off the boat immediately.
Yeah, I would just want to rocket into space at that point.
I wouldn't want to do any of that. And Natalie just decided to dip.
She ended up leaving the boat with the captain who drove her to shore and spent the night in a hotel with her.
It's just like I'm so confused about this part.
There were two rooms purchased, but only one of the rooms was disturbed the next morning.
So people were like, they must have stayed in the same hotel room together.
Yeah. Now they returned to the boat the next morning and like, that's pretty much all we know about it.
But like, the captain kind of lied about a lot of things when he was asked about it later.
At first, he didn't even bring it up to the investigators.
And then when they were like, like people at the hotel came forward and said that they saw you.
He was like, yeah, but we had two separate rooms.
And it just like it seemed like something was weird there.
Yeah. Nothing ever really figures itself out from that point.
It's just like kind of weird. Also, I just fucking hit my finger that I sliced open and it really hurt.
Also, it's really unfortunate how attractive Robert Wagner was.
Yeah, there was everybody that we talked to on this boat.
I don't know what to do with it. Pretty attractive.
Too much. I didn't look up the captain.
Maybe you should. Maybe I should. What's his name?
Fucking Dennis Davern. Because maybe this caused some kind of like weird cosmic issue to happen because it's just like too much hot on one boat.
Too much hot on one boat. I love it so much.
Maybe that's what it was. Put that in the official report.
Yeah, there you go. So yeah, it's just weird because...
Nothing ever sorts itself out from that night.
It was just a weird thing. And then on the night of November 28th, everybody got dinner together at Doug's Harbor Reef.
The night manager remembered worrying about the foursome getting back to their boat safely because they had gotten like pretty drunk at dinner.
And he actually asked a Harbor Patrol man to make sure that they did get back okay.
Oh, okay. which they got back to the boat okay.
They left the restaurant around 10.30 that night, and when they got back to the boat shortly after, Christopher Walken and Robert got into like a really heated argument together.
Now, at this point, allegedly Walker. Why am I saying Walker when it says walking right in front of me?
Walken was trying to tell Robert that it was fine that Natalie wanted to get back into acting and that she could have a family and a career.
And Robert was like really upset and agitated. pointing out that Natalie was a mother to multiple young children and that should be her focus.
Okay. So like they were like really arguing over that.
It's like, guys. It's like, why don't we let her decide what she wants to do?
Can we not? She's 43 years old. I think she can make her own decisions at this point, but apparently nobody ever does. letter.
Don't need you two boys. It's cool. Now, it didn't help that Robert was pretty convinced at this point that something was going on between Christopher and Natalie.
Because when they had gone to dinner that night, Christopher and Natalie had gone off like themselves and Robert met them later.
And when he met them, he felt like they were flirting with each other.
Okay. he got like pretty mad about that.
And actually one of them smashed a glass at the restaurant.
And then it seems like things kind of chilled out.
And then they got back to the boat and things picked up again.
And the argument on the boat got so heated that Robert didn't break a wine glass this time.
He smashed a bottle of wine on a table. evil damn and then Christopher just stormed off apparently whoa yeah and Now, Natalie, at this point, they believed was in her own room on board and upset that the two are fighting.
Like she could hear what was going on and she just went into her own room and and I was like, ugh, this is stupid.
But around 11.05, Robert said that he realized Natalie was missing and the boat's dinghy was also missing.
Which, it was weird because she was so afraid of water.
Like, it's just a little weird. Yeah. Now, Robert apparently didn't want to turn on the boat's floodlights to search around in the water for Natalie.
Like... the captain suggested that they do that because why the fuck wouldn't you do that?
But Robert was like, I don't want to bring too much attention to the boat like that.
That doesn't seem like a good idea. What?
Probably because I threw my life overboard. most shit I've ever heard.
Yeah. No, he didn't want to do that because he didn't want to draw too much attention.
But. What? By that point, attention had already been brought to his boat around that same time anyways.
I mean, they're smashing glasses and shit.
You're literally screaming. Yeah, like screaming at each other and smashing bottles of wine.
I think attention has been drawn. Attention has been brought.
Now, a woman named Marilyn Wayne was on a boat just 50 feet away from Natalie and Robert's boat that that night.
And around 11 PM, she said that she and the people on her boat heard the voice of a woman calling out for help, screaming that she was drowning.
And these calls are these calls out for help lasted like a half an hour.
Did they just finish like their game of gin rummy?
Or were they calling someone? No. So Marilyn and the people on her boat called Harbor Patrol.
OK, thank you. But no one picked up their call.
Oh, now. they think that no one picked up their call because onshore, which like wasn't like like crazy far away, like it was far enough away that it would be a long swim, but it wasn't crazy far.
There was a party going on and it was like super duper loud and everybody was like, was like the Harbor Patrol there like partying?
What? That's what people thought. Because they also called Harbor Patrol on this boat where Natalie went missing.
And they didn't answer then either. Harbor patrol.
What the fuck? Harbor patrol. You're supposed to be harboring and patrolling.
You're supposed to be patrolling the harbor.
Now, she said that this woman, Marilyn, said that shortly after the cries started...
She heard a man's voice say something along the lines of, oh, hold on, we're coming to get you.
And he said this in a slurred, loud tone.
And, like, sounded, like, agitated. Like, ugh.
Like... That's as slurred as I can do. And then she didn't hear anything else.
And she said that days later, she received an anonymous note at work that said, If you value your life, keep quiet about what you know.
Oh. Now, whoever sent that note wanted Marilyn to keep quiet because on November 29th, 1981, at 43 years old, Natalie Wood was found dead in the water on Catalina Island.
For some reason, everyone on the boat decided to wait.
Four hours. One, two, three, four hours before calling the Coast Guard.
So they made that one call to Harbor Patrol that was around like one in the morning and So already that's like two hours after she's been missing.
Yeah. And then two hours after that call, they call Harbor, excuse me, they call the Coast Guard.
So four hours in total they waited. And none of that makes sense.
It's like you're on a boat. She can only go so many places.
100% of those places are in the water. Are you just waiting for her to swim back in those four hours?
Like, what are you doing within those four hours?
Probably cleaning something up in my fucking opinion.
Getting rid of evidence, perhaps? Probably.
And it wasn't until 8 a.m. the next morning that Natalie's body was found only about a mile away from the boat.
Isn't that so weird? Like a mile away. The fact that she drowned.
It's so sad. With like her background and being taught like to fear water so much.
It's just that. And just the fact that like somebody like predicted that that was how she was going to die.
Like that shit is wild. That's really wild.
She was found dressed in a nightgown, wool socks, and a red quilted down jacket. and they said that if she had taken the jacket off she may not have drowned because it was like obviously quilted down jacket, like it's going to weigh you down.
But if she had taken it off, maybe she would still be here, which is so sad to think about. and she was found close by the dinghy that had beached itself, but had clearly not been driven to this location.
So it was just kind of like somebody cut the dinghy from the yacht and it just went like nobody had driven this boat, which is fucking weird.
Yeah. Like, you don't just find an abandoned dinghy that hasn't been driven somewhere.
No. Doesn't make a lot of sense. Dr. Joseph Choi, I believe is how you say it, was the one to perform Natalie's original autopsy. she did have a blood alcohol content of 0.14 which is pretty fucking high yeah but like she was living she was living she's on a fucking yacht i was gonna say they were partying like what would your blood alcohol content be on if you were in a yacht i don't know A lot.
But there were also bruises on her body and a facial abrasion on her left cheek.
All of the injuries, according to whoever looked at this, seemed to be consistent with the story that she was trying to tie up the dinghy, securing it to the boat, but then fell overboard.
That's what everybody surmised had happened.
Okay. Now, remember that intense phobia of dark water?
Yeah. We talked about it a little bit. Yeah.
There's no way she would have gotten that close to the water to tie.
She would have just asked somebody else to tie the dinghy up for her.
Yeah, because I wouldn't do it. I hate dark water.
You're afraid of water. I'm not afraid of water.
In choppy waters, I wouldn't be bending over. a boat to tie a dinghy up.
There's a fucking captain on board for that.
Yeah, call Dennis. Call Dennis. Now, Robert was asked if Natalie was possibly.
Possibly suicidal. And he told the police that there was no way that she was suicidal.
The official cause of death was ruled on November 30th, an accidental drowning.
But stories have changed a lot over the years, and the people on or around the boat have come forward in years past. saying that they either know more or that they weren't telling the truth the first time around.
I gotta know what Christopher Walken knows.
He won't fucking tell anyone. I know. He literally will not say a word. but apparently did say a word to somebody, and it's good.
Okay. All right. So we're not starting there, though.
No. Dennis Tavern, the captain of the boat, that night actually co-wrote a book, Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor. where he talks about what really happened that night.
He says, and this is like the truth, He redacted his last statement and said this instead.
Okay. The truth allegedly. Yeah, exactly.
The truth allegedly. Who knows what the fucking truth is here.
Just throw a blanket allegedly over all this.
Honestly. He said that Natalie and Robert were also in their own fight that night after Christopher Walken went to his own room.
Not before Robert screamed at him, asking if he was trying to fuck his wife.
He like screamed at him and said that. Wow.
Now, Deverd went on to say that he heard the couple arguing and then all of a sudden everything just went quiet.
And he believes, he did not see according to him, but he believes that Robert pushed Natalie off the boat.
And also the last thing he said that he heard before it got quiet was Robert Wagner yelling, get off my fucking boat.
Wow. Telling. That... That sounds damning, if that is true.
Get off my fucking boat. That sounds very damning.
Now, the captain did obviously lie in the original investigation, and he said it was because he was scared of what Robert Wigner was capable of.
Now, for like a year after Natalie's death, this captain actually lived at Robert Wagner's house.
And like anytime the police were around or anything, he kind of like kept him up in this bedroom, like locked away, essentially.
What? Fucking wild. Wow. I wonder if he heard a splash or anything.
I didn't hear anything about a splash. He said he heard get the fuck off my boat and everything went quiet.
Also, she was petite. So she wouldn't have made like a, and if it's already like the waters, the swells are crazy.
It's choppy water. You're already hearing a little bit of.
A splash anyway. Unfortunately, if you were going to kill somebody, it would be like the perfect night to do it.
Yeah. I hate to even say that. No, it's true, though.
But it is the true. Davern isn't the only one who didn't tell the entire truth of what may have happened that night.
Michael Franco was an intern at the coroner's office at the time when Natalie's body was autopsied. and he said that there were friction burns along Natalie's anterior thighs and shins.
And he went on to say, quote, I remember the striations were in the opposite direction of somebody trying to get onto a boat.
It was almost like somebody being pushed off.
And because of the significant amount of bruising, in the lower anterior thighs and shins, that's what caught my attention.
She would have had to have been forcefully pushed off or there was a force that was pulling her off or something.
Hmm. And he said, the amount of noticeable bruising to the thigh shouldn't have been there.
Wow. So that's weird. That is weird. And was that not put in the original report? not put in the original report.
And he asked about that. He was like, I noticed that.
And he brought it up to Dr. Noguchi. who actually I'm pretty sure worked on Marilyn Monroe's case later.
Oh, yeah. It did sound familiar. It's Thomas Noguchi.
He examined Natalie's body. So when... Michael Franco asked about this, he was told that some things are better left unsaid.
Whoa. The doctor allegedly looked at him and essentially said some things are better left unsaid.
Whoa. Oh, allegedly. And then just he, like, he said that he lifted his head up and, like, kind of looked at him with, like, this knowing look.
And then he just went right back to what he was doing.
Like, just sleeping alone. Like we don't go there.
And also like some things aren't better left unsaid when it comes to murder.
Yeah, most things are better left said. Yeah, you should probably say everything.
Say it all. Now, Vidal Herrera was another man that worked on Natalie's case, and his job was to photograph the body.
And in doing so, he said that there were significant wounds to Natalie's head. though no such wounds are noted in the original autopsy.
That's strange, because if there was just wounds and they were noted in the original autopsy, you'd be like, okay, maybe she slammed into rocks or something.
Or like hit her head on the dinghy when she fell.
But the fact that they weren't noted is like.
Why weren't they noted? Excuse me, sir. Exactly.
Now, the investigation into Natalie's death was actually officially reopened in 2011.
And Ralph Hernandez, who saw the photos that Vidal Herrera took, said that the wounds were troubling and, quote, she looked like a victim of an assault.
Now, when the investigation was reopened, the cause of death was actually changed by the doctor. to drowning and other undetermined factors.
Now, this is in the same coroner's office.
So actually, is it Dr. Michael Baden or Bodden?
It's Bodden. It's Dr. Michael Bodden. He said he was like, it's kind of a big deal for one person. like, new corner to question the other corner.
Like, it doesn't really happen a lot because...
It's just a thing that you don't do. Because it's not really like something where you can just... you have like an opinion on you know yeah it's usually fact usually it's pretty based in fact so you're not going to have like a very varied sense of what's going on because it's science.
It's what's in front of you. Exactly. So that's very interesting.
But he was like, the fact that this happened is kind of telling.
Yeah. Because somebody wouldn't do that. most people would honestly honestly be kind of afraid to do that yeah because you're essentially disrespecting the person who worked before you work, you know?
Yeah, absolutely. But according to the Los Angeles Times, quote, the coroner's report cited unexplained fresh bruising on the actress's right forearm.
Wow. Forearm. Left wrist and right knee along with a scratch on her neck and a superficial scrape on her forehead.
Official said the wounds opened the possibility that she was assaulted before drowning.
Jeez. Now, those bruises were actually the exact reason why they chose to dress Natalie in a huge fur coat for her funeral. because they didn't want people to see them.
Now, in addition to that, the new doctor says that in the original investigation, They never took nail clippings to see if Natalie scratched anyone or anything.
Which is like, it's kind of a huge deal.
Yeah. Because if she was involved in an altercation, she probably scratched somebody.
There you go. Or if she fell off overboard and like grabbed onto the dinghy, there might even be like debris under her nails to say that.
Yeah, it's evidence in many ways, so why would you not take it?
But the original dinghy doesn't exist anymore.
Hmm. And the... they didn't take the nail clippings and now that's gone I mean how many years has it been so That sucks.
That really sucks. And in 2018, Robert Wagner was officially named a person of interest in the case.
And Christopher Walken, who allegedly made comments to an anonymous source that he saw Robert push Natalie off the boat... has since lawyered up. oh damn now lana wood natalie's little sister said that she was told by the lead investigators on the case that quote The only way Chris would talk to them is if it was never disclosed.
After they spoke with him, they told me that they had enough to charge RJ.
So... oh man now as of 2021 no one has been charged with the murder of natalie wood But there is a new district attorney who, according to OK Magazine, quote, privately pledged to push the case.
I hope so. Yeah, me too. And Ralph Fernandez says that there are two new witnesses that the investigators actually tracked down. and that they're very trustworthy sources with valid information that is going to be helpful to the reinvestigation.
But they were probably scared to come forward.
And that's what he was like. That's why they're trustworthy because the whole reason they didn't come forward is they were fucking terrified.
Yeah, which more people have said that the entire time.
Right, but they have information that hasn't been let out.
So it is possible that we could hear something about this case soon.
And Robert Wagner, just to like end this, he has always maintained his innocence, but Lana Wood and many other family friends. think that he's the one who took Natalie Wood's life.
Wild. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. Wow.
He's also like, what sucks is that he's I think he's like over 90 at this point.
I'll look it up really fast. But even if he does go to jail, it's like...
I don't even think he's going to make it there because the trial is going to take so long, you know.
The trial is going to take him out. It might.
He's 91. Yeah, I mean, he's in his twilight years.
Yeah, which sucks. Which I just like, I don't want it to be true.
No, of course not. Like, I don't want her husband to have killed her.
But I think he allegedly did. Her father of her children, like...
I think allegedly he may have. Allegedly.
Perhaps. Come on, Christopher Walken. Well, and then the other thing that we can hope for is the deathbed confession.
I've been thinking that this whole time.
I'm like, who's deathbed confession are we going to get?
It's like, you gotta, you gotta, what is it called?
Like you absolve your, your shit. Yeah, like that's what it's called.
You absolve your shit. Yeah, that's what they say.
That's what it is. He needs to absolve his shit.
I want him to absolve his shit. Christopher Walken's only 78, so...
But he does not want to talk about this.
And it's like, I love Christopher Walken.
I don't think that he... I don't want him to be holding on to this.
No, I don't think he had anything to do with it.
I think he saw something that he didn't want to see.
And I think there are people. I mean, it's fucking Hollywood.
Hollywood's wild. I'll protect you. Just let it out.
Well, I mean, he told one person and then that one person is a new witness.
Tell me Christopher. But it doesn't matter because everything he told that person, they're a credible witness.
So like it's coming out. It's coming out.
I mean, is that not hearsay, though? I don't know.
I don't know how it's all come forward. It seems like all the new stuff they're keeping close to the chest. which I love because I love and hate I love it I want to know because it's good But the fact that they're doing that means that they're doing it right.
Right. So as frustrating as it is, I'm like, come on.
I know. I thought that I was going to like... I thought I was going to crack the code.
And I feel like I did. But I just want it to be... I want someone to say, Ash, you did.
I... I feel like I know what happened on that boat, but I would love for them to come out and be like, that's not at all what happened on this boat.
Here's what happened. what happened on the boat love to hear that but but they but I'm not sure they actually did that first they were like here's what didn't happen on the boat yeah And then they were like, here's what did.
Yeah. And then everybody's like, what happened on the boat?
What happened on the boat? Guys, what happened on the boat?
I don't know, but I hope I wake up to a CNN alert in the next couple of weeks.
I don't want anyone to die, but... That does happen a lot with us though.
It does. We'll do a case and then like The following days, all of a sudden something cracks and we're like, damn it, we did it a day too early.
The Lori Vallow when that one happened. I know.
And we still have to do like a full update. episode about that could be like a whole ass episode updated it probably will be i'll do that Yeah, we'll do that soon, actually.
Let's do that. Cool. Well, guys, thanks for listening to me. fucking really try my way through that case.
Natalie Wood. She was so gorgeous. I found a really good picture to post of her.
And her kids were so cute. So sad. I know.
And I saw that Courtney believes her father, right?
Oh, really? I want to believe. I want to believe.
We don't know. I don't know. We don't know.
We don't know until we know. I don't know, allegedly.
I don't allegedly know anything. But I hope that you keep listening.
And I hope you keep it weird. But I swear that you tell somebody off about no matter who you are because it's really rude if you don't ever do that.
Yeah, whoever did it, that's me. Rude. Thank you.
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