Episode 198: The Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders Part 2 | Morbid

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And when you're ready to launch, use offer code morbid to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. hey weirdos i'm elena i'm ash and this is morbid And guess what?

Alayna's not going to make us wait for part two.

I'm not. You get it the very next business day.

The very next day. It's not even a business day, so you're welcome.

Wow, look at that. No, it's a business day for us.

It is. It's always a business day for us.

And I figured we were initially going to have Ash do her episode because usually... as you know, I don't know if you're new here, but if you're not, you know that we switch on and off.

It's my time, it's her time, it's my time, it's her time.

I decided maybe I should also do some work for this podcast.

Well, it was supposed to be Ash's turn now to do her case, but... we decided why have a case in between part one and two normally i would do that because it's fun to make everybody be like what the fuck what the Fuck.

I feel like this one, you need the closure.

I need the closure on this real bad. And I need the closure.

Like I need out of this case now. So I was like, let's I'm going to soft shoe right out of here after this.

I feel that. Also, I feel like all of a sudden my voice is very like, it's very sensual.

It's so sensual. No, it's because I just made cupcakes, I think.

And whenever I know I'm. Okay, let me explain.

Let me explain. Whenever I use the oven in my apartment, because my apartment is so small, it gets really dry in here.

No, that makes sense. It's just my voice is sensual because I make cupcakes.

I think my voice is sensual because I just made cupcakes.

I'm pretty sure. It does. Plural. I love it.

Oh, man. Happy Sunday, everybody. Hey, Ash has a TikTok now.

Yeah, I caved. She caved. I made one because I saw this TikTok and it was like, what you would look like as a celebrity and my dumb ass thought that the filter like actually picked your celebrity for you and But it doesn't.

It doesn't. And then I was like, oh, well, everybody says that I look like Brienne of Tarth, aka Gwendolyn.

Christy. Christy. I knew it was Christy.

I like pause for some reason. So I made one of those like morph things and I was like, well, shit, I can't deny that. this any longer.

She does. And Gwendolyn Christie is a goddess, which is why you look like her.

Thank you, goddesses. And then one of Alayna's girls had like a really good week this week and she asked me if I would make her rainbow cupcakes.

And I was like, yeah. So I made a TikTok of me making those and then shoving one into my face.

You're welcome. It's real hot girl shit.

Can't talk right now. I'm doing hot girl shit.

So yeah, I'm a TikToker now. You're a TikToker now.

What's your TikTok name? Ashley Kelly 3, because Ashkel was apparently taken, so fuck you to whoever my doppelganger is.

Wow, fuck you, Ashkel. But it's Ashley, A-S-H-L-E-I-G-H-K-E-L-L-E-Y-3.

Also, I can't wait to see a negative review on iTunes that's like, oh my God, who cares what your TikTok name is?

Whatever, man. I have a TikTok, but I don't have anything on my TikTok.

I just use it to follow other TikToks. But maybe I'll put one on it because Ash made me like.

It's fun. I was like, maybe. And I have an idea for one.

And I feel like it'll be like perfectly you and I. Yeah.

I think our separate TikToks are going to be.

It'll be funny. Yeah. I also... Well, I've always wanted to do a YouTube channel, but I feel like I don't have the time at all.

No. So I feel like... TikTok is a really good way to be able to use that as a makeup and hair outlet.

Oh, I think that would be perfect. And then...

Yeah. Just throw them on there. And it's like, not as time consuming.

Yeah. And then you can do your hot girl shit.

I can do my hot girl shit. Maybe we should make one for morbid.

I think we should. Yeah. I think we should make one for Morbid.

I think it'll be fun. The outtakes. Morbid the outtakes.

Can we call it that? Maybe. You don't like that.

No. Maybe. When Elena says maybe, I know it means no.

It's like when your mom's like, yeah, maybe you can get your belly button pierced.

Maybe we'll make a morbid one, though. I think that's a good idea.

Yeah, thanks. But yeah, so I just wanted to throw that out because I think Ash is going to make good TikToks.

Thank you. But I think now we can just move right on to part two of the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders.

Yeah. I think I was putting that off. It's time to wrap this all up.

Now, I want to warn you, there's no real, like... closure here.

Awesome. Thank you. You know, you're all going to get to the point where I'm at.

So that's nice for me. so we can all be we can all just shake our heads and fists together we can all be in this together So I think when we left off, where did we leave off?

So we left off when the manhunt was really starting.

Yeah. When they had really... So Sheriff Weaver had really zeroed in on Gene Leroy Hart, and he was...

Totally sure that this was the guy. He had eluded him for four years before this.

He had escaped his own jail. twice. I was gonna say twice.

Yeah, he's a rapist, a brutal rapist of two pregnant women.

He attempted to murder both of them by putting fucking duct tape over their heads and covering their mouths and noses.

Ugh. and blindfolding them and leaving them like next to a pond somewhere.

He tried to murder them. Luckily, they escaped.

Yeah, he's a monster regardless of whether he did this or not.

He's a monster. Yeah. And I think it's important to note that, like, This guy definitely, and we're going to see it in this part too, that Sheriff Weaver definitely has. a thing for this guy which you can understand yeah but and i think it Does Cloud his ability to allow the investigation to unfold? how it could have unfolded.

I could see that. And I think we're going to see that he makes a couple of what I believe are fatal errors to this case.

And it's because I think he wanted to move it along, but...

Well, and you were saying you put all the super condemning evidence in part one, but now there's...

There's a couple of things that are going to make you go, eh.

So I want to start this off by saying that I do believe Jean Leroy Hart had something to do with it. yeah do I believe he acted alone I don't know I don't think there might be more people involved here I do believe he had something to do with it Definitely.

And also, I just wanted to quickly say, I pronounced the Kiowa tribe wrong.

I said Kiowa. So somebody very nicely was like, oh, hey, it's the Kiowa.

And I was like, oh, my goodness. And you know what's crazy?

I looked up the pronunciation ahead of time.

I clearly saw that it said, heard that it said Kiowa, but you know how when you've pronounced something in your own head too many times wrong, It negates it.

Even after you hear the correct pronunciation, you just say it.

So I fell into that and I apologize. It's the Kiowa tribe.

That's what the tent was named after. That's what the unit was named after.

So yeah, just wanted to put that out there.

So at this point in the investigation, they haven't found Jean Leroy Hart yet.

They brought in the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigations at this point.

We're going to call them the OSBI because it's a long thing to say.

Yeah. So what they found was that they said there were three fingerprints found on the bodies, which, great.

That's what we're looking for. We want that shit.

And they said there was a couple more in the tent, but they were all kind of like... a little smudgy but they were going to see what they could do with them.

There was also hair that was like black hair stuck in the tape that was used to bind the girls.

And they couldn't really do a whole lot with that either at the time, but they end up being able to.

Oh, that's good. It doesn't really help a ton, unfortunately, because hair evidence is like, yeah, but you know.

Because I feel like a lot of times with hair evidence, it's like, there's like a 98.9% chance that somebody with this hair.

Yeah. Hair isn't super different from person to person.

I used to think that the microscopic view of hair and the comparison that way was a very big piece of evidence.

But it's actually not. 2015 I believe it is or even might even been a little earlier than that they decided that it's kind of shit evidence it's like it really it doesn't matter yeah so unfortunately it doesn't really do a whole lot in this case they think it does for a little while and then it's like nah So just to give you a little background on Jean Leroy Hart here, just so you know who we're working with.

I already told you what his crimes were.

At the time, he was 33 when these murders occurred.

He was in school. He was like a football star.

Oh, wow. Yeah, like a huge football star at Locust Grove High School.

All of his teachers and his coaches said that They were shocked that he turned into the kind of person he did because they said in high school he was kind, sweet.

Well-mannered. Weird. Totally fine. His coaches said that he was like a great listener.

He was just like took direction. He was a good-looking guy, everybody said.

Whoever just enjoyed being around. Nobody really had a whole lot of bad things to say about him.

He was also known as an expert woodsman.

He knew how to survive in any land, and especially... the land that was surrounding Camp Scott because that was Cherokee land.

He had grown up in there. He had, I mean, he had all his family were there.

He knew that land like the back. back of his hand, which is important.

I like that that rhymed. Land, back of hand, yes.

So June 23rd, 1977, a farm owner saw a man that he said matched Hart's description of He said he saw him sitting in a cave little thing because there's a ton of caves around here that even investigators said they had no idea existed.

There's more than they ever knew existed in here.

And of course, somebody who knows the land around there would know where all the bees were.

Also, Imagine having the balls to live in a cave.

To live in several caves. too this guy because remember in the first part just in case you need like a little catch up they found another cave on like very close to Camp Scott that had all this stuff in it, like, you know, the newspaper that matched the newspaper that was in the flashlight found with the girls, um,

They found eyeglasses. Notes. They found notes that were saying the killer was here.

They found photographs from a wedding that they traced back to Hart saying that he had developed them while in prison.

That's the, that alone like really kind of like sealed the deal for me.

That one really connects it, but what we'll see is that does get questioned at some point.

The validity of that, but we'll see. All good.

So, so yeah. So this farmer saw this guy that he said matched hearts description, sitting in a cave. just two miles west of Camp Scott.

Oh wow. So he said he was walking around like the perimeter of his own farm. as farmers do, as farmer Joe does.

I think that's just a farmer thing. You just walk the perimeter, you know, with your cattle, with your cattle.

And your overalls. There you go. And your overalls.

And your straw. Yeah. And your straw. You're right.

And your hat. yes to protect your head from the sun and your cowboy boots your cowboy boots i love how that just turned it was like a farmer then it went to cowboy I love it.

So he said he was walking around the perimeter.

He happened to spot this man sitting under like some kind of like it's like a cave, like a rock. rock formation almost, it kind of works as a cave.

And he said he was just sitting right underneath it.

He immediately went back to his farmhouse and he called the police.

Uh, cause he was like, this guy looks like that guy that you're looking for.

The man was gone when the police arrived.

Oh, come on. But they were able to look into his cave thing and...

They said they found some things of note.

So Officer Harvey Pratt was on scene for this, and he was also a chairperson.

Native American. So he said, and this is important because he noticed that there was a formation in this cave that he had lit like four small fires in a formation.

So you could see the ashes of them. And he said there was also, and they were lit with cedar wood.

So that was important. And there was a grouping of cigarette butts with the filters torn off and they were in the middle of all these fires.

That's weird. Yeah, and he said that this is actually indicative of some kind of ceremony.

Like the cedar wood, the formation of the fires, the way that those things were arranged.

So he said, you know, this to me tells me that it's somebody who at least is familiar with Native American culture, was doing something to do with that ceremony.

And also the saliva was taken from the cigarette butts and it showed type O blood, what, what?

It wasn't me. Uh, but was it O negative or O positive?

I'm not sure exactly if it was O negative or positive.

I could never find that. But it was type O. And heart has type O blood.

Oh shit. And as we know, type O blood. Rare.

Very rare. If it was type O negative, very rare.

You know who else is? O negative is Annie.

And me. And you. Heyo. I think everybody knows that you are.

Hero's blood right over here. Need some blood?

I got some. Don't give me any, though. I can't take any.

Well, you can take O negative. I can take O negative if you got that.

You got that? You and Annie can swap blood.

We can. That's nice. That's weird. That's a nice thing to know.

It is. That's nice. So they also found a boot print in the cave and it matched the impression of the boot print that was found in blood in the victim's tents.

If you remember, there was that military style boot print, same exact pattern, same exact size.

The boot print was size 9.5. The problem here is Hart wore an 11.5 size boot.

Okay. So that tells me he didn't work alone.

Someone else was... was with him, I feel.

And it really gives credence to that idea that I feel like he was involved, because he's too involved in all of this, and it just makes a lot of sense, but not the only one.

And I think they were zeroing too hard into just him and not looking outside to see if there was more.

So everyone was sent out of Camp Scott because at that point they had collected all the evidence they felt they could collect.

Uh, but they had, and they had had like a command post set up there that they were doing everything, but they took all the law enforcement out of there.

But then they wanted to keep the scene secured, obviously, in case they had to go back.

They don't want people just walking through there.

So they had a security company like set up, you know, a command post there just to watch the area.

Right. Until they were sure. Right. like goes in there yeah just to make sure that you know just in case they have to go back and all that So they set up and a ton of shit went down while they were there.

So they said they would see a lot of fresh footprints around, like someone was still walking around the area. and they would hear things so they were like someone was still stalking this place that's so spooky doors would be left open that were previously shut They would see silhouettes of people in the woods and then they would send their sniffer dogs out to try to get the trail.

And they would go and sometimes they would like follow a trail of like a scent and then it would just stop.

So they were like, shit, they can never really find who this was.

That's so bizarre. Which you wonder if it's like, this could be an outdoorsman who knows how to cover a scent.

Right. Right, like to a point. Or the Golden State Killer.

Exactly. So one time, though, a dog was sent up ahead to go follow the scent and returned like totally shaken up. and appeared to have been bludgeoned on its head by someone.

And they couldn't find who did it. They couldn't find it.

That is crazy. But that's fucked. That he was that close to somebody.

And they were so close. Yeah. not go too far ahead.

Exactly. And apparently, they started using string that they would put through trees to try to see...

Because at one point they were like, are we going crazy?

Are we just like spookied out by this whole experience in this environment?

Because like... three girls got murdered here are we just like freaking out it would be freaky so they were like let's Let's put these strings across like trees and trails and stuff like really thin string.

So that if people are walking, they're not going to see it, but they're going to walk through it.

And then we'll be able to tell if somebody has been through here.

Right. Well, they started doing that. These threads were breaking.

So somebody was walking around. I hate this so much.

Well, while the guards, this is insane. And this was real.

I will post the newspaper article and everything.

What? While these guards are here watching the camp.

So they set up the main area that they were going to be watching.

They set it in the director's office. And one night they were startled by something in the woods.

They thought they saw a man in the woods.

And so they went out to check it once again.

Couldn't find anything. But once they returned...

They noticed on the front steps of the camp director's office there was a bag with something inside that wasn't there when they left.

What? So they open it and inside was a soaking wet pair of little girl's shoes with pink socks inside of them.

Okay, that's so scary. Inside the shoes, the handwritten name, Denise Milner.

Denise's mother said those shoes were her shoes and they said they were not in the items returned to her.

So the killer could have had, like, that was the killer.

Oh my god. who had them and then put them on the camp director's steps, probably to be like, hey fuckers, you can keep these girls safe and look, I'm still fucking with you.

Wow. Like returned her soaking wet shoes and socks.

Ugh, that is such a yucky feeling right now.

It's insane. same holy and the fact that they just missed him by like oh it's unreal like how did they not cross paths And there was an... So there was... Because I was like, what the fuck?

I was like, how did... Because of course... then people are trying to be like, well, were those shoes just like left there?

Did somebody pull it like a prank? Did what happen?

And it's like, no, you can't. Her mother's those are her shoes yeah i know those they're like her name is written in them yeah i know it right And then I found an article from the Tulsa Tribune that was entitled, Shoes Mysteriously Appear at Scout Death Scene.

And it says Tom Kennedy, deputy director of the OSBI, said today two pairs of shoes with Denise Milner's name on them. are in the evidence files at the Oklahoma City Office of the Crime Bureau.

And he said any shoes that might have been found Thursday were not there the day we originally investigated the case.

I'm sure we have never seen these shoes before.

They are not part of our evidence. Meaning, because people were like, well, wait, were they part, like, did somebody fuck up at the crime lab and, like, forget those shoes?

Or did they... Did they come out of evidence and somebody was pulling a prank?

Did they get stolen? And what he's saying is no.

They were never evidence in the first place. up all evidence.

We picked up two of her shoes that day. Those shoes were not there that day.

So they were like moms like those are her shoes.

So they were with her stuff and he just took them that night.

The killer took them that night. Well, and think of all the other stuff he took.

I mean, like the denim purse, the eyeglasses, the...

Like a bunch of stuff was missing. That is scary.

And they were bloody, you said? They were soaking wet.

Oh, soaking wet. But the night that they were murdered, it was soaking, and they had been soaked coming from dinner.

Right. So... those could have been the shoes that were soaking wet or it's somebody who's living outside and those shoes got soaking wet during another storm this entire case is just so fucking creepy that's like that's some like horror movie that brings creepy to another level that's horror movie shit that's not even real So then at some point, Sheriff Weaver, which I'm like, Sheriff Weaver, like, rest in peace.

He's not alive anymore. But it's like. What did he do?

What did he do? So he announces to the press that he was like, Guys, we have the murder weapon.

And everybody's like, oh, awesome. Like, what is it?

But the OSBI and the district attorney, the Oklahoma district attorney are like, no, we have no idea what he's talking about.

Oh no, you can't do that. Like what? So Weaver is said that the crowbar that was found was the weapon.

But there was no solid evidence to prove this.

Like, sure, it seems likely. Like, maybe.

Sure. But there was also evidence that there were several weapons used...

And there was literally nothing to say that that was the weapon.

They could not like say that. so it seems to me and like he did and later i think uh eventually the district attorney sid wise came out i think it was like the next the next day and was like, yeah, Sheriff Weaver was mistaken.

That was not... So, like, he just said it.

You can't just say shit like that. And to me, it seems very reminiscent of the West Memphis Three case where...

I understand why you want to solve a case like this.

It's three children who were murdered. I get that.

In both cases. You want to solve that shit, and it's exactly like Gary Gitchell in the West Memphis Three case.

He wants to be the one to solve it. He wants to take the person off the street.

He wants to say he did it. He wants to make these parents... chill.

He wants to make everybody not scared. Right.

So he's like, we gotta solve this. We gotta solve this.

And It just seems like they rush to close these cases so quick.

As soon as something looks good, it's like, that's it.

Right, but you have to... like double check and like look at the other people.

Yeah. It gets sloppy and it, Again, it makes sense why they want to do this.

I get it. When it comes to kids, it's like high, high emotions, high everything.

Right. But you just got to step back for a second and be like, but if I'm just closing this to close it, am I really doing anyone a favor here?

Right. If I'm not taking the right people off the streets, like in my opinion, in the West Memphis three case.

Well, because you're not doing anything to help it.

The killers are still walking around out there, in my opinion.

So... Are they? Emily, in my opinion, they are.

One of them, I think. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's still kicking.

I forgot that. Anyway. Anyways, bye. I think this was one of those cases which...

It's not the exact same because I think Gene Hart had something to do with it, but...

It's just, I don't think the scope was big enough.

Well, so what did he say that the murder weapon was?

So he had said that that crowbar was it.

Oh, okay. But that it... Nobody ever determined if it was.

They were unable to really determine what the murder weapon was because it was like bludgeoning.

So I think it was hard to figure out. Well, and if you think about it, if there was multiple people working together, there's probably multiple weapons well that's what they said they they know there was multiple weapons used and like left hand right hand and all that so they're like Yeah, sure.

That could have been it. But like, that was maybe one of them.

And you can't say that if there's no evidence to prove that.

You have to have evidence to back it up, like a handprint or something, or like be able to show that that is what that made that wound.

Right, right. but they did not. So the dogs, remember the wonder dogs?

Yeah. How could I forget? So those dogs were sent out again.

They actually hit on a pond sent for Hartz. on a pond on Jack Shroff's property, that farmer who had the shit stolen from him.

And the murder, like the... the tape and everything.

Yeah. Yeah. And. It was a pond on his property where Jean Leroy Hart had taken those pregnant women...

Right. To dump them and let them die. That's where he had put them.

Oh, shit. Yeah. So they were like, that's weird that the scent just brought us back here.

Yeah. So some of the parents actually, because right now it's like the biggest manhunt in Oklahoma history at this point.

So some of the parents actually joined in the hunt for the killer, specifically Richard Gousset, who later we're going to see that Richard Gousset really like did the damn thing.

I believe he passed away a couple years ago, but like he really, like that was Michelle's dad right that was Michelle's dad and he really took this experience and He said at first it like really ruined him and then he just took it and didn't great things with it, so we'll see that after.

But he really took part in this and he said that he needed to be part of the people who took his daughter's kill or He was like, I want to be there when they get him.

Absolutely. So hundreds of volunteers searched the area.

On June 26th, they found something interesting.

It was in an area referred to as Skunk Mountain.

I wonder why they named it that. I don't know.

Maybe there's a lot of deer there. So this area was only within a mile of Camp Scott.

Again, everything's like really close. And they found two men's jackets a t-shirt with rust-colored stains on it.

So you mean blood. So blood. and a pair of jeans.

They also found a ton of trash and things like beer and soda cans and egg cartons.

So it's becoming clear that a man or several people are living in this area and camping out right around Camp Scott.

Way too close to this camp to be fucking undetected for this long.

Well, and the fact that they set up the Bureau to keep tabs on them, and he was right there.

He was literally right there. there. I meant to say too, why would you not like have one person stay? yeah or like one or two people stay just to see what happens you know what i mean yeah And I wonder if they did that, but then that one time they didn't have someone stay and that's when he left it.

Right. But... It's like, so this whole time, no one is checking to see if the perimeter around Camp Scott where these children are going to be sleeping and fucking crying.

Fabric tents. Maybe you should see if people are living in the woods.

I don't know. To me, that's it. Maybe I'm crazy.

Maybe I'm a helicopter camp counselor. But like, I feel like that's something you should do.

What you would do, I would think, is have like a few golf carts and like a couple security guys just going through the woods all the time on different shifts.

Exactly. security people that's what they do they stay up all night and they watch shit out for you that's like it doesn't have to be happy The same person, obviously.

No, take shifts. You can do it. Or fucking counselors.

That's... somebody take the night shift and you all have to take shifts.

Right. It's just insane. If anything, you would think, a camp like that would have some kind of security and there was none they had nothing And when I saw the picture of the tent, I was like, Are you kidding me?

The tents. And then we had a couple people write in and say, like, they had family members that were at that camp and, like, in those tents.

Yes. A bunch of people were like, oh, I slept in tents just like that.

I was like, bless your soul. I'm so glad you're here today to tell that tale.

I would never. And then somebody had said, and I just saw it, and I can't remember your name, I'm sorry, but she said that she was supposed to go to that camp on that... When you told me that. this same session and that she backed out right before because she didn't want to leave her mom and i was like you literally I'm so glad that you had that like gut feeling and that you didn't go and that you're here today and that I can talk to you hello right I know you're listening.

Hello. No, it's so glad you're here. And a couple of people said they had. family members who were either in the camp, like in that camp with those kids.

Yep. Some people said they grew up with Lori.

They like knew her. oh like yeah somebody knew lori's sister like we're part of this and we're saying that this is like haunted them a lot of weirdos are connected to this case yeah it's crazy so like it's really nuts it's nuts and a lot of people were like you guys are really terrified of camping like are you okay And I was like... No, I'm not okay.

I can't. I'm not okay. I don't... We have episodes that are called Don't Go in the Woods, Man.

Yeah, like I... I don't go in the woods.

And don't worry, we'll do another episode of don't go in the woods, man, because I'm feeling it now.

Seriously. Feeling it hard. So at various points, the rewards for the capture of Jean Leroy Hart or information at all, they were raised, they They were lowered, they were everywhere.

Girl scouts around the US actually raised upwards of like $15,000 for information.

Yeah. So like people were really invested in this and at different times, the district attorney, Sid Wise, um, Sheriff Weaver and the OSBI all gave conflicting information about suspects.

Awesome. This wasn't a very smoothly run operation.

So Sid Wise, the district attorney, said at one point there was no suspects at one point.

And then Sheriff Weaver was like, no, there's only one.

And it's of course, and the OSPI was like, no, there's three.

So everybody was like, but how many though?

Those are three different amounts. Can we like average it out or something?

Like, what is the mean? Yeah, I was like, what is the mean?

Tell me. I said that to Annie the other day and she was like, what?

Hashtag math. Yeah. I loved math. I actually loved doing that stuff, like mean and average.

I like math in general, which is weird because I feel like you wouldn't expect a bitch like me to like math, but I do.

You like those numbers. I do. But yeah, so then they had to come out and like literally the very next day, Sidwise was like, oh no, we have a suspect.

And it's like, guys, Can we all just like talk to each can you guys get walkie talkies or something and just be like, hey, what are you going to say to the press tomorrow?

Turn four over. Instead of just all being like three, I think?

Zero? One. It's like none of you... What are the odds that none of you even landed on the same number?

Do we know who the three suspects were in the OSBI's eyes?

We really don't because they do look at a couple of other people, which we'll mention at the end, but No one pans out super well.

Okay. So there's a lot of weird. I just don't understand how they're like right in the woods, but they can't get them.

Yeah, they just can't get them. I don't really get that.

Can't get them. So there are now reports coming from... all over saying that they're seeing Hart all around the camp.

Now people are like, we got to step up this.

Like, he's in these woods. We have to get him.

That is so scary. And so now there's a huge search that is organized with 200 law enforcement officials and over 400 volunteers, like a billion volunteers because this was like what did you say like in the beginning like a hundred acres or something like that Oh, it's a 410 acre camp.

So it's a pretty... Remember when I said I didn't understand?

Pretty big area. How they couldn't find him.

Yeah, there's that. I'd like to retract my statement.

I'd like to gently pull that statement back.

Strike that from the record. I'm not gonna re-gif that one.

So yeah, so they were going out searching for this.

They were instructed... that this was a search and not to bring weapons because they didn't want people just willy-nilly shooting people uh and actually the members of the american indian movement aim They actually came forward and were like, we're going to monitor this and just make sure that nobody's like... like taking their like frustration out or anything you know like we just want to make sure uh and they did they were just made they were like monitoring And a lot of the searchers actually were super drunk.

A lot of them could barely stand up. They did bring weapons, a lot of them.

So it was a little bit of a gnarly search.

Let's get it together, everybody. Some of them even got arrested themselves, the searchers.

For like public. For public intoxication, drug possession, all kinds of shit.

Guys. And it's like... I don't... Can you take, like, maybe a couple hours out of your day and not be, like, a giant fuck-up?

Right. Can you, like, I don't... Like, just...

Get it together real quick. The other thing is... Just march in a line for like two minutes.

Well, and the other thing is, this is like to not find children, but to find... To find somebody who potentially murdered three children.

Right. Like, let's take that a little more serious.

Maybe step back from your own vices for like a couple hours.

Yeah. And then go crazy. Also, you're helping the police.

What are you doing bringing drugs whilst helping the police?

That's what kills me. I'm like, guys... Like, the last thing they need to do while they're searching for this guy for a killer of three innocent babies is arrest your drunk ass.

Right. Or you're a dumbass who just brought like a bag of cocaine into the woods with you.

Like, what are you doing? But then you think... back then people were probably getting arrested for like weed oh yeah i'm sure it was you know how many times i've had weed in my life But it's also just like, can you leave it at home for like a minute?

It's just cool. You're right. You're searching for a murderer, a child murderer.

You don't need that. it's just a lot you might need that actually so you do yeah you might actually need now I'd be like take it with you you're fine but then it's like you're gonna get in trouble yeah So when the search kind of turned up really nothing of importance because everybody was like slobbering all over themselves and shooting guns in the air.

They brought in heat sensor technology that they put on National Guard helicopters and they were flying it over the property.

That's cool as shit. Yeah, and they were basically able to determine the difference between a human and an animal by their heat. a profile wow i don't yeah i have never heard of that like science that's cool as shit but But unfortunately, there are so many fucking caves in the area that they had no idea existed.

They were able to evade capture. Yeah, you can't get through a cave. yeah you can't really see that far under so it was like if they were hiding you're not going to see them and they tried a couple times and it didn't work one time i believe it was like weather kind of fucked with them.

So unfortunately, it wasn't going to work.

Here's a strange little tidbit that I read in several sources.

And I'm going to put all my sources in our show notes because I have a ton of articles and books that you guys can devour.

There's one and I have it written down somewhere.

I'll say it when it comes up. But there's one, I think it's a Tulsa newspaper, that did somebody, I think it was Tim Stanley is the writer.

He did like a six part deep dive on this.

Oh, wow. And I want everyone to go read it because holy shit, like he killed it.

He has so much information, so many little like. tidbits interviews that i don't have here and all this so like go read that for sure i'll i'll link it But this little tidbit I saw everywhere and I was like, wow, that's weird.

So they was very heavily circulated, like a rumor. that a local medicine man had cursed the investigation and had said he did.

And said that the dogs, those three wonder dogs, would die soon. oh and so they were like okay and then immediately afterwards now he did this between the 16th and the 18th of June, I believe.

And on the 18th, one of the dogs died of heat stroke.

And then a second one of the dogs weirdly ran out into traffic and got hit by a car and died.

Oh my God. So two out of the three dogs died after he said they were going to die.

Wow. That's a little weird. That's bizarre.

Yeah. Like, really bizarre. Does anybody know why he cursed the investigator?

No, I don't know if it was like a supporter of Hart because he did have a lot of supporters that people thought he was. didn't have anything to do with this but it's just a very strange occurrence and if you look in any source it is in every source this is a heavily reported thing wow and these dogs did die that is fact that's crazy except one yeah thank god that other one didn't i know it's so sad though they were like flown into pencil They're like, hey, we're in Oklahoma.

This is great. And then two of them are just dead.

Their buddy has to go home by himself. I'm going to need you to let me know the next time that's going to happen.

Sorry. Way ahead of time. Sorry. I know.

Doesthedogdie.com. Doesthedogdie.com. Yes, it does.

So the FBI sent out 40 agents to help the investigation.

They claimed that they knew Hart was indeed in the area.

They had proof of it. But they're not going to tell you the proof.

Guys, we know. But like, can you go get him?

But they're like, we can't tell you how we know that.

God damn. We know it. We're just not going to.

A few times he was seen by people and dogs were sent, followed the trail, caged. kept losing him.

That's crazy. They just could not find this guy.

Because he's so familiar with this land.

So familiar. That's a big thing. Right. Now, July 6th, the medical examiner comes out and says those fingerprints that they had on the bodies He said those were not in fact fingerprints.

Wow. And what's really crazy is at one point, Law enforcement involved and the district attorney had all said those three fingerprints.

They said two of them were smudged and one of them was a perfect fingerprint.

But then he said, no, none of them are fingerprints.

And then the medical examiner comes out and is like, none of those were fingerprints.

But that's interesting, though. So that perfect fingerprint was not even a fingerprint?

Maybe it was, and then the curse did something to fuck with it.

No, I don't think that. I don't know. I don't think the curse went that far.

I think the curse literally was like the dogs are going to die.

I hate that. But the fingerprints, no, I think it was law enforcement coming out and being like, we have fingerprints.

And then the medical examiner being like.

No, like that's actually just an oval shaped thing.

Yeah, that's just like that's a piece of dirt.

Like, I don't know. It's just not. Oh, so like you guys lied again.

Yeah. Thanks a lot. And again, it's like, how do you think this is going to look when you go to trial, man?

Well, because you keep getting people excited and then you're like, never mind.

You're killing your credibility and people aren't trusting you.

Right. And it's only going to get worse.

So this is when the director of the OSBI said, I'm going to say it exactly how he said it.

I would say with certainty that Hart is guilty. not say with certainty that any person who has not yet been tried were guilty.

But we do have a great deal of evidence in this case that points to his guilt.

I'm sorry, what? So, I know that he's guilty.

I would say with certainty he's guilty. Because I would say, I would not say with certainty that any person who has not yet been tried we're guilty but he's not yet been tried but we have a lot of evidence that says he's guilty Was he high?

Like, are you okay, sir? Was he drunk? Are you okay, sir?

What? Like, that gave me no information at all.

It's just him being like, he's guilty because guilt and guilt is a silly thing and guilt and... Certain. rainbows and you're like okay bye see you later so this yeah it's just weird rainbows and rainbows so Then they had a man named Dr. Robert R. Phillips do a personality profile of the killer.

Oh, that's always so much fun. It is. It really is.

And so he did this based on, you know... newspaper articles describing the murder scene and anything else he could find.

I got this particular information in one of the books that I'm going to link and I can't remember the name of it right now.

But I'll link it, don't worry. So he said that he felt the killer of the girls at Camp Scott was a sadistic psychopath.

You don't say. With sexual perversions who might repeat the heinous crime if not captured.

Mentally, the killer could not tolerate the idea of rejection and this rage overwhelmed him.

The murderer was not feeble-minded. He knew right from wrong and did not act on impulse. which goes a read that is perfect because this was definitely planned ahead of time.

Oh, yeah. Denise had a gag that was homemade in her mouth.

Right. And they had brought all the stuff.

They had put a little pinhole in that area. a flashlight to make sure nobody saw it.

They packed it. They brought the cord, the rope.

They had it all planned out. So this is not on impulse.

And they left a note the week before that said, like, we're going to do this.

We're on a mission. Like, this was planned.

And those two women that Gene Leroy Hart had raped, there was evidence he had planned that ahead of time.

So he definitely didn't work on impulse.

I never feel safe. He said the killer. was cool calculated and probably kept the camp under surveillance before he moved in He became prepared with the flashlight, blunt instrument and tape and was in complete control until he became caught up, which caused him to become careless.

And he said the killer tried to bring order to the chaos... with a futile attempt to wipe up the blood in the tent.

Something happened, and he was frightened away, leaving behind his flashback. and other objects, which makes so much sense because when you look at it, why the fuck are you trying to wipe it up?

Right, like you're not going to be able to.

You know that you're not going to be able to wipe up blood, especially off of wood. like the wood's gonna soak it in it's not gonna happen and you're not gonna wipe it up with the bed sheets and where the fuck are you gonna put the bed sheets and then you just shove them into the sleeping bags with the girls.

So he just got like crazy. So I think that was his moment of like, I need to bring order to this chaos.

So I'm going to try to clean it up. and then he probably came clear-minded and was like this is not gonna do a logical thing and i need to get out of here i have to get out of here so he just left everything Yeah.

It makes a lot of sense. It does. They say that time waits for no one, neither should payday.

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Now, September 22nd, 1977, two of the victim's parents filed a $3 million lawsuit against Camp Scott's Magic Empire Council.

We are going to return to this suit later because it goes on for a while and it's very frustrating, the outcome.

It should have been like the money granted on day one.

It really should have. So while they're going through that.

Finally, 10 months after the crimes. Finally.

Agent Larry Bowles, who had been working with a Cherokee informant, was told by this informant that Hart was staying with a friend and a local medicine man like this elderly guy named Sam Pigeon.

He was in Cookson Hills, about 45 miles away from Camp Scott.

This particular informant said that Pigeon truly believed Hart was being railroaded And that in particular, he, along with others in the community, thought Sheriff Weaver had a personal vendetta against him for evading him.

Which was not wrong. And he just wanted to pin this on him.

He said that he had been staying in a shack with Pigeon for about eight months.

So it makes sense because it means that about two months He's been running around those woods trying to evade capture.

And then for eight months, he had a place to stay.

And that's why they stopped finding him.

And nothing was really like, they weren't like finding a lot of stuff.

And all the crazy shit happened in those first few months where he was running around out there.

That's nuts. So it was April 6th, 1978.

Eight OSBI agents stormed the home of Sam Pigeon.

They took Gene Leroy Hart into custody without any issues.

He was wearing women's eyeglasses. And the photos of him, you see I'll post photos of him being captured.

They are like cat eye little women. Shut the fuck up. which obviously it's fine if a man wants to wear like quote unquote women's eyeglasses but what is very specific with this is his obsession with women's items.

And the fact that women's eyeglasses were stolen from the camp and they were placed at the crime scene.

Girl. And women's eyeglasses were found in those caves that are connected to Jean Leverhart.

That's insane. And he was fucking wearing them.

They're on his fucking face. Yeah, that's creepy.

You can't tell me that he didn't have anything to do no he had something I think I think there was more people involved but he is absolutely one of those people for sure I'm sorry And there is a book called Somebody Cry for the Children.

Uh, you this book I tried to buy it but it's out of print now so the only copy on Amazon is $119 and I was like Love you so much.

I'm not going to buy that book. Honestly, that's not even bad because sometimes when they're on print, it's like $900.

And you're like, who is gonna buy that? And I'm like, love books so much.

And not gonna lie. There was a part of me.

I literally looked at John and I was like, what would you do?

It's like on TikTok where they're like, girl, don't do it.

And you're like, I'm not going to do it.

I was just thinking about it. And they're like, I did it.

I did it. But you didn't do it. Because I literally looked at John and was like, hypothetically, if I bought a $119 book and he was like, what?

And he's like, does this book tell you the secrets of the universe?

Like, what is it? And I was like... You're like, well, it might.

I was like, it's just an old book about some murder.

He was like, do what you do, but just think it through.

And I was like, See, I just got a gift card, so I would have used my gift card for that.

See, I should have thought of that, but I was like, all right, so whatever.

But I did find some excerpts of the book.

Oh, cool. And in it, Larry Bowles says that when he first got... heart when he was leading him out of the shack.

He said, you killed those little girls, didn't you?

And Cart's reply was, you'll never pin it on me.

So that's not denying it. No, I didn't do it.

You're never going to pin it on me. And he was right.

And that's just him being a cocky motherfucker.

Because he knows. Right. Now, what is interesting, and this is when things start...

This is when I think Sheriff Weaver and his bros there started fucking up their own investigation.

So now what's interesting is they search the home, the shack.

They find nothing of real importance, nothing connected to the crimes.

It's just like, regular shit well he'd be an idiot to bring it there exactly and Then they do a second search after he's arrested.

And suddenly, they find two items. Oh, crazy.

A toy corncob pipe and a mirror. Now, they were apparently stolen from one of the counselors at the camp, so it connects them to the camp.

And it was stolen that night, apparently.

Okay, so that is weird. The idea that these were planted, though, comes into play because... why didn't they find those in the first one?

And what we're going to find out later. You're not searching a mansion.

And what we're going to find out later is that when they came out and said, well, these were stolen from the counselors that night, So I don't know if that was completely the truth and we'll find that out during the trial.

So when they come out, they're like, whoop, we got these two things that were stolen from the camp that night.

And everybody's like, well, there it is.

Boom. shakalaka you got him like everybody just said boom shakalaka they all just were like boom shakalaka you've got it My dad says that all the time.

I'm embarrassed for you. Sorry. Uh, but he was charged with three counts of first degree murder.

He pled not guilty. He was initially taken to the state penitentiary at McAllister, Oklahoma, where he had been serving a prison term of first-degree rape, before he went and escaped at the Mace County Jail in 1973.

You know the other thing is like, you know, once they catch you, you're going away again anyways, like for life.

That's the other thing. Because you got 305 years.

So just admit that you did it. But you can tell he's a...

He's a cocky little fucker. He is. Yeah, and he knows.

He's like, they're not gonna get me on this.

So why would I say it? So why would I even admit to it?

I'm gonna let... And I truly think he thinks that he likes that those parents will never know.

Yeah, because he's that evil. He's an evil.

Anybody who can do something like this. It's beyond the realm.

The poly class. Yeah. They just like it.

They like fucking with the parents. It's part of the whole thing.

They did say that they would seek the death penalty if he was found guilty.

The trial began March 9th, 1979. Unfortunately... right away shit was not going well for the prosecution.

Oh no. The district attorney, Sid Wise, they found out that he had signed a book contract with the editor of the prior Daily News and and he was agreeing to share case information for the book once the trial concluded.

So obviously he couldn't be on the case anymore because that is a massive conflict of interest.

Yes. And so he had to hand it over to Tulsa County DA Buddy Fallis to be the principal prosecutor.

Which is fine because Buddy Phallus was great, but that doesn't look good.

Yeah. Already it's like, uh-oh. Yeah. So are you already selling a story?

Yeah. So the Cherokee Nation Tribal Council actually donated $12,000 to Jean Leroy Hart's defense.

And when I first saw that, I was like, why everybody?

Why did you do that? But they said they thought they said it was not because they thought he was innocent.

Mm hmm. They did not have, they were like, we don't know.

But they said they wanted to ensure that he received a fair trial and they didn't think he would have the money to buy a defense team that could give him a fair trial.

So it's like, okay. yeah it's just like what because at first i was like do you really and then they were like we don't think he's innocent but here you go here's a fair trial and i was like I think you could have just let him sink or swim, motherfucker.

I don't know. You've been living in a cave for a while.

That's your fault. You know, sometimes I think it's best to stay quiet.

Sometimes it's just... Okay. Yeah. Sometimes it's just, all right.

I'm just going to go ahead and say I wouldn't donate to somebody.

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, but like. Unless I thought that they were innocent.

Yeah, for sure. And even then, I feel like I would have a little shadow of it out and be like, well, what if Yeah, I just don't even... I think I'd just stay out of it.

I'd be like, you know what? I'm going to be over here doing... I'll leave that to the legal system.

I'm going to go do a... Crossword or something.

They don't always do a great job, but let's flip a coin.

In this case, it's like, yeah. let the chips fall where they may live and let live and also Gene Lee Rehart regardless of whether he did this yeah rich people is a literal monster.

He's a rapist. Maybe he's just, I think he's one of those throwaways that we can just go, Bye.

That didn't work out. Let's just leave him over there.

But you know, that happened. So he did a great defense team.

He had a wonderful defense team. That makes me mad.

And a lot of people in the community believed in him and his innocence.

Well, you said he was like this like star kid growing up.

So people probably just couldn't believe it. believe it they liked him and he was also very charismatic in front of a camera he was very likable he had a very Ted Bundy way about him

Yeah, so that's not cool. And at one point, people he knew were actually saying those pregnant women he raped and tried to murder were just trying to get away from their husbands. and they went with him willingly but so they went with him into the trunk and were bound willingly and then raped willingly, which is a conundrum in itself.

And then they were taken to a pond and willingly had duct tape put over all of their air holes and then willingly shoved into brush and then willingly had to escape from that, and then willingly told the story of how they didn't willingly do any of that.

Willingly. Strange. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

Weird. Weird. Okay. Seems legit. I wouldn't do that.

Seems legit to me. I see how you connected those.

Weirdos. Everything is irritating. It's just like, okay, Jan.

Yeah, that's irritating. So they couldn't, you know.

Sure, Jan. Sure, Jan. Whatever. All right, Jan.

So they couldn't, unfortunately, in the trial, use the case of the pregnant women in the like they couldn't bring it up in trial because it was a different. crime and they couldn't bring it up because they didn't want it to bias the jury against him See, I don't agree with that.

That's happened a couple times. That happened in the, I can't think of it right now.

The child case that... Sarah Foxwell. Yes.

They couldn't say that he was... Couldn't bring up that he's a literal monster person.

In another case, that could have prevented anything happening to Sarah Foxwell.

Exactly. So it's like, you're not going to put that in this case, and then what if...

And that's what bothers me. He can re-offend.

In legal terms, you're like... It makes sense in legal terms, but it makes no sense... In life.

In real terms. No. Like... A person's past, sure.

Like, should you be judged solely on your past?

Not always. but but if you're doing really shitty things in your past maybe and it's also like if he's if he has actually raped and attempted to murder people before.

Maybe we should talk about this when he's accused of raping and murdering some other people.

I feel like that's a... That's an okay thing.

I feel like that's permissible. Yeah, I feel like that, but it wasn't.

So that sucks. So they were like, hey, Jean.

Where were you the night that those kids were murdered?

Because that would help you. He said, I was out.

When he said, I was at... Joke's on you guys, because I was at my uncle's house in Tulsa.

And they were like... All right, we got to talk to that uncle.

And he was like, ooh, bummer. He's dead.

Awesome. Yeah. And he was like, ooh, bummer.

It sucks because he is no longer alive to corroborate that.

But, you know, I was there. Yeah, that's where I was.

And they were like, so no one can say that you were there?

And he was like, yeah, Uncle can, but he's dead.

He would have. He would have told you. He would have told you.

Happily. He would have screamed. He would have sang it to you that I was there.

But... We would have talked about the card games we played.

We had a great night that night. Me and my uncle.

He died. Me and my uncle. And you know what's weird?

He actually died before I got there. Yeah, so weird. before I was arrested.

It's so weird. He actually died like 10 years ago.

Yeah, it's so weird. He died like 55 years ago before I was alive, but like it's so weird.

I was there. I actually never knew him. Yeah, it's so cool.

So yeah, so that didn't help him. Everybody was like, cool, cool, awesome.

The physical evidence, like the hairs, the boot print, there was semen found, the fingerprints.

They were all heavily debated during the trial because it's not like in the 70s forensic science was like, tip top every like you don't stop like they were literally and people didn't necessarily like believe in science yeah it just and they couldn't do a whole lot with these things it was great to have but like I think they were holding on to them being like someday I think people were still like, I don't know.

Sounds like magic to me. Sounds kind of kooky.

That's the devil. What? Dinner? Dana? I was like, what?

Erna? Erdana? What is that? What is that?

Avedance? I don't know what Avedance is.

What is Avedance? Semen? What? What are you talking about?

I don't know. Semen? Semen? What? So they were like, yeah, we have all this stuff, but a lot of it doesn't tell anything.

And it certainly wasn't proving beyond a shadow of a doubt.

So that's a bad thing in a trial. Yeah. The hairs were looked at by a chemist for the defense, and they said it bore a strong resemblance microscopically to Jean LaRoy Hart's hair. but he could not confirm that they were from his head.

Right. Obviously later we find out that they're like, oh yeah, that's complete bullshit.

They were like, it was black hair and he had black hair.

Literally, that's it. So there was also the issue with the shoe prints not matching his size, right?

Which, of course, the defense brings up and is like, we wasn't there.

And they were like, but what if somebody else was there, too?

And they were like, doesn't matter. He wasn't there.

That's not you. shoe print yeah and that's all that matters and to if you hear that as a jury member i would be like okay so like i don't give a fuck about that shoe print Exactly.

If anything, that just tells me he didn't do it.

Yeah, exactly. So that's the thing. And no fingerprints were found. able to be found to match him anywhere there were no fingerprints on the on that flashlight not on the crowbar nowhere right Of course, he could be wearing clothes, but whatever.

He probably was because he was prepared.

Because he knew what he was doing. So, bringing back that mirror and that toy corncob pipe that they were like, whoa!

Boom shakalaka! This is what we found in the camp and it was now in his shack.

That's the evidence. Well... Again, they found it on the second search, which already is, like, not great.

Chin scratcher right there. And the counselor... that these belong to testified at the trial on the stand that those items were hers.

She said, those are mine. And she said they were in a trunk that she brought with her to camp.

And she said that the weird thing was They were in that trunk and that trunk was taken by police for evidence.

Uh-huh. And she said when it was returned to her a couple of weeks later... when they were missing.

Those items were not in the trunk. Okay.

So those items according to this woman were in police custody and then were gone and suddenly ended up in this shack yeah So I'm not saying this clears him because there's so much more that goes against him.

What I'm saying is that definitely put doubt in the minds of the jury.

I mean, especially regarding the conduct of the police at this point.

Right. it went back to Sheriff Weaver being too focused on this.

And I think I do think that might have been planted.

I really do. I think that- It sounds a little weird.

I think he had everything to do with this crime.

I think they got two, far into this and he got too like gung-ho about proving it and he started making fuck-ups like that and he could have just let it roll.

Well, he should have just let it do its thing.

Because that was huge. So then there's the semen evidence.

And this was like a big... bone of contention during everything.

So the semen found at the scene and on the bodies contained traces of sperm.

Right. I just like screamed that. Right.

Right. The sperm was determined to be from a non-white male. which he is a Native American and who had type O blood.

He has type O blood and that is rare. So this all matched hard, but the fact that sperm was found would indicate that the man who this belonged to is capable of producing sperm.

Well, Jean Leroy Hart had a vasectomy, which is supposed to stop sperm from being ejaculated with the semen and And the defense was like, boom.

Like smoking gun. That's it. Vasectomy, not him.

But vasectomies don't always work. Well.

Let me tell you. Tell me. It was discovered by the prosecution that Hart's vasectomy failed. and was only really partially done.

So what does partially done mean? What the fuck is that?

What the fuck is a partially done mastectomy?

Oh my God. partially done vasectomy. Yeah.

And so he did produce sperm. But a large amount of his sperm was deformed and not viable.

Like this is not sperm that would likely produce a child like a pregnancy.

So it was like funky ass sperm. What? Which makes it even more like specific.

It's like mutated. It is. It's like weird.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle sperm. Yes. Literally.

Donatello sperm. This is like the Jason from Friday the 13th of sperm.

Ew. Yeah, exactly. So he... So yeah, so that was the kind of sperm that would be produced by him having a partially performed vasectomy, like didn't take.

And when they tested him after his arrest, he did produce that kind of sperm.

Oh, shit. A ton of the sperm seen in the semen on the scene were deformed and not viable.

Okay. That to me is like, hello. Right. That's so specific.

Oh, my God. That makes it even more nightmarish.

I know. It does. The prosecution ended up bringing this guy named Larry Dry to the stand.

And he was a prisoner. And he broke out of prison with Hart. at one point, he said that he and Hart had stayed at those caves that he was staying in together.

He was like, I know he stays in those caves.

I was with him at one point. One of those caves, the one where the most stuff was found, was actually like a hundred feet from the foundation of heart's childhood home wow which puts it in like a very creepy thing that is Wild.

So wild. So the defense also indicated another man in the crimes, which looked really good at first. but it kind of falls apart.

His name was William Stevens. He was a convicted kidnapper and rapist who was actually in prison in Kansas.

That's crazy. His cellmate, Duane Peters, told OSBI that he had told him he committed the crimes.

He was like, he flat out told me. But we all know that prisoners say that a lot.

I was just going to say, did he want a later sentence?

Yeah. Also, this woman named Joyce Payne, who was the mother of a friend of Stevens', said she saw the exact red 6-volt flashlight. in his possession he was she was like i know i saw that flashlight with the pinhole and everything oh shit Because I was going to say a lot of people could have a red flashlight.

Unfortunately, it turned out that... Joyce and this DeWayne guy had some kind of thing going on and they were trying to get him a lighter sentence so it looks like it was like a big thing to go after Stevens to kind of get a, had a feeling people and the hair lie about things.

Yeah. Let's not do that. Well, And the hair and semen did not match him, unfortunately.

But there was like another thing where this waitress in another town a long way away the next morning after the murders saw William Stevens and he was like bloody and like very stressed out.

Okay. So there's that, but that was never really like...

They didn't look into that? Because they were like, oh, the hair and semen doesn't match him.

That's weird, because that's like in the West Memphis 3Ks, that bloody guy.

Yeah, the Bojangles. Bojangles and nothing ever comes of it.

There's a lot of like parallels. Yeah. Uh, he denied his involvement till the very end.

He ended up dying in prison in 84. I believe he was stabbed to death, but he's also said that to have killed himself, but I think he was killed.

So yeah, in an interview with the Oklahoman on June 14th, 2007, And someone who, they don't even say who it is, it's like an anonymous source, said that they heard, quote, Quite a bit of vehicular traffic on a remote road near the camp between 2.30 and 3 a.m. the night of the murders.

Nothing came of this. Like, this is right when it was probably happening?

Yeah. And no one ever looked, like, nothing ever came, like, what?

You heard people in cars on that road? What the fuck?

And no one's finding this out? Right. And those are like not really traveled roads.

It's never mentioned again. it's in no other thing it's like no did this just but then like what are you gonna do with that It's just, what the fuck?

This many years later. It's just crazy to me.

I'm like, what the fuck? And then, like, go talk to that person again and be like...

What do you mean, like, quite a bit of vehicular traffic?

What does that mean? What does that mean?

Does it mean like a highway? Does it mean like...

Two or three cars? What does this mean? It's just very strange to me.

That is weird. So Hart was, he was, again, he was acquitted.

They came out and they gave him a non-guilty verdict.

Oh, And it only took 7.5 hours over two days to return the verdict of not guilty.

I wonder if he would have been found guilty if they hadn't, like, planted the suspicion, or made the suspicion that the police planted.

I think a lot of that probably put a lot of doubt in the eyes of the jurors.

And they also just said, unfortunately, there's no physical evidence.

Yeah. Because they also pointed to those pictures that were found in the cave where that's how they were tying... gene to that cave that was within a mile of the camp.

What did they say about that? Well, one of the guards at the prison That he was developing those photos for that prison guard at. he said he had seen those exact photos on sheriff weaver's desk at one point oh And Sheriff Weaver was like, no, no, no.

Here's a piece of... Here's like an evidence.

It was like... He had Jean Leroy Reaver, uh, Jean Leroy Reaver.

Gene Leroy Hart. Yeah. He had him sign an evidence thing saying that those pictures belonged to him.

Uh-huh. But he could have forced him to do that.

Well, yeah. Like, that doesn't really prove anything.

But, yeah, one of the guards did say he saw those photos on them, which... kind of is like, so did he put him in there to tie him to the cave to put him closer to the thing?

Like, yeah. And you don't know, again. But then again, like, why were those there?

And again, he did it. He definitely did it.

He definitely just had help. But it's like... But these things are... really, that put huge nuggets of doubt in the jury's mind.

And they couldn't, within good minds, Yeah, think about it.

Would you be able to? Yeah. I mean, you because you can't look at anything else.

You have to look at what's laid in front of you.

And like you said, enough. The death penalty is on the table too.

That's the other thing. So that makes you think way harder.

So I think this whole thing was kind of it was gone about in the wrong way.

Yeah. it only so they did they debated for like or deliberated for like six hours the first day went home and then only took a half hour or something, or like an hour and a half.

And they were done. So, not guilty. The supporters of Hart cheered in the courtroom.

Which they can go fuck themselves because he's a rapist and attempted murderer.

Well, that, 100%. At the very least. And then also, I'm sure the victim's families were right there.

Oh, yes. contain yourself oh yeah in fact the victim's family said that they were sitting there completely numb and in shock hearing this non not guilty And they said around us, it was like a baseball game, like people cheering like at a baseball game.

And they were like, we lost our 8, 9, and 10-year-olds.

Can you just calm down? It doesn't matter. how you feel about this fucker.

Because first of all, at the very least, like I said, he's a fucking rapist, kidnapper, and murderer, like attempted murderer.

At the very least. That's gross that you're cheering for his innocence.

That's insane. But on top of that, it's like, contain your fucking self right because there are parents have murdered babies in this room and it doesn't matter what happened there devastated like get to control it's just like that pisses me off like if you were in that courtroom and you jumped up and cheered go fuck yourself like that is so fucked up so uh so Luckily, even though he was acquitted, remember, he escaped from prison.

Yeah, and he got 305 years. So he still had to serve his 305 year sentence for his previous rapes, attempted murders, and prison escape because he He's a garbage person.

So even though he was acquitted, he can go fuck himself.

And he did. He did go fuck himself because he was only there until June 4th, 1979, only like two months.

When he lifted some weights one day, went for a jog in the prison yard, and then he just buck died on the prison yard of a heart attack. yes goodbye he did go fuck himself literally bye gene So he had a heart attack in the prison yard and died.

He just had a fucking heart attack, which is like...

The parents of the kids said that it was like a relief, but also like... frustration because they never really got that closure but like he's gone So that's something.

But he went to his grave like never admitting it.

Yeah. That's so fucked up. Oh, and that amazing deep dive thing that I told you about, it was by Tim Stanley in the Tulsa World podcast. newspaper you can find it online I'll link it and it's in it it has Betty Milner who is Denise's mother and saying people would come up to... This was after the trial.

She said people would come up to me on the street and say, Hart didn't kill your daughter.

I would punch them in the face. Which... die literally if you if you are a person who would do that die like i'm sorry you're asking for me to punch your teeth out like that is i don't give a who heart is to you no what you think about him what a subhuman like just bucket of vomit you have to be to walk up to.

A grieving mother whose daughter was raped, bludgeoned, and murdered at summer camp?

On her first night of summer camp. And sit there and be like...

Fuck you. You probably did it, you murderer.

You have to be a murderer to be that evil.

That's insane. No, that's literally asking to get your teeth knocked out of your head.

Gross. So gross. So, yeah. So she said that.

And then Laurie Farmer's father, Bo, Charles Bo.

He said, quote, the atmosphere was not hostile, but it wasn't far from it.

And he said, in the courtroom, there was definitely subtle intimidation by heart sympathizers.

That's ridiculous. Ridiculous. You're evil fucks.

Like, you're evil fucks. Who knows? Maybe those people were working with him.

Yeah. You don't know. And he said that walking into local restaurants after this, he said you'd see jars collecting funds for Hart.

So he's like, we'd literally be going out to dinner and there was a jar on like the waitress stand.

Wow. The hostess stand with like his face on it.

I would knock it over. Collecting money.

I would knock it over while they're grieving their children.

So, like I said earlier that they had filed a civil suit against, and this was against the, like, you know, magic.

Yeah. the whole thing the magic fucking council there uh they lost the civil suit that is unreal to During the whole thing, they presented numerous events that we have already talked about at the camp that definitely put these girls being placed in imminent danger.

Yeah. And there are newspaper articles and I'll post some as many as I can. that have i mean that are girls finding people in their tents only to have the like dude run away when they go in the tent A girl having someone break into their cabin but screaming so loud that the person left.

Put that with the threatening note found, the slashes and the tent flaps and everything else that happened.

Yeah. They are at fault for not keeping those girls safe.

The fact that they were not found at fault is a travesty.

I don't understand how they weren't. That's a travesty.

These parents deserved that fucking money.

But I'm glad that it shut down because it never opened up again.

No, it never opened up again. And Barbara Day, who was the director that year, she was the new director that year. yikes that was her first year and she said she could not have directed the camp if she had known the history of intrusions, burglaries, and thefts.

She said she had no idea there were that many.

I don't blame her. She said if she had known, she would not have directed it.

So that place is fucked. And Barbara Day and camp counselor D. Elder, who was one of the ones, They said both of them were in the dark about any of these prior things.

Neither one of them knew about It sounds like they were just trying to cover up all this shady shit so that they could do their Girl Scout and get their money. year and that's all the way that was about money it's so fucked uh they did appeal but they they upheld the the judgment that it was against them.

That's just wrong. In 1989, you know, DNA... testing had like come a long way at that point the semen sample was retested And the DNA testing proved that three of five was a match for Hart, his DNA.

I think he did it. And it shows that there was like a 1 in 7,700 Native Americans chance, which is a pretty good... odd yeah it's the same it's not it's obviously not like the Smoking gun.

One in a million kind of thing, but whatever, it's still there.

It's a big number. Then just last year, or just a few years ago in, I think it was 2016.

2017, the sheriff of Mays County actually started raising funds to carry out like more advanced DNA texting and they've been doing that since I think 2016.

Oh, that's good. And they've been trying to get it retested.

Not really any answers are coming. At one point, there was upwards of $50,000 raised to do this, but it's really expensive, obviously.

Yeah. I haven't been able to find anything that has come out since then.

I want something to come out so bad. That could either mean that nothing has because these also these samples were stored horrifically.

They were not stored well and put that with the age of them and that they're deteriorated to the point of not being able to use.

But I don't know if it's maybe they can't use them because of that or maybe they are finding something and they're just. keeping quiet about it because they're trying to to see it out i don't actually trying to do it the right way this time let's hope let's hope that's what it is The son of H.J.

Scotty in Florence, Scott. Oh, yeah, yeah.

He now, he would have like inherited that whole thing.

He was pissed that it was closed and thought that it should have been reopened.

Which I say, are you serious? I'm not even going to comment to that.

Are you serious? Buddy. Really? Really, friend?

Why don't we think before we say things?

Yeah, you got to think before you speak.

Yeah. Something you learn when you're little.

Yeah. Got to do that. It's hard, but we all try.

So you know how I mentioned that Richard Gousset, Michelle's father, had done some great things?

Yeah. He actually helped the state legislature... passed the Oklahoma Crime Victims Bill of Rights.

Wow. like basically I can put a link for that too just so you can read it and see what he did because it's amazing it's all basically so like the families of victims like know the procedures the entire way through like things like in the Bill of Rights there's something that says like they need to be placed in a waiting area that's like never crosses paths with the defense team and the person, like the defendant. little things like that that need to be in writing, you know?

Yeah. Which is amazing. And then he also founded the Oklahoma Crime Victims Compensation Board.

Wow. Which are huge accomplishments. And if you look at his obituary, it states all these things.

He was like an amazing person. Her family never changed her bedroom.

Her calendar in her bedroom still reads 1977.

Wow. And they said it wasn't like a shrine.

It's just that they just didn't want to change it.

No, it's just there was no reason. That made me think of the lovely bones and I got that.

Yes, I thought of that too. I got a little throat lump. of that too that's really sad sherry farmer laurie's mom she actually founded the oklahoma chapter of the parents of murdered children Wow.

Which is like the grief group. And weirdly enough, they also showcase that in the Paradise Lost.

Yeah, they do. The Arkansas chapter. Yeah.

And I was like, whoa, this is weirdly. That is really weird.

So like I said, I think that Hart did it and he did it with help.

That's what I think. And I think there's people that we need to find that did it.

Maybe we'll get a deathbed confession. Or maybe you're right.

Maybe they are finding stuff because the DNA testing got better.

I really, really hope so. you would have to think that some kind of like like fabric or fingerprint or something was left behind that.

It's unfortunate because it was so poorly managed and it was that crime scene was poorly taken care of and then like It was so long ago.

There was the palm print that they found in the tent that they were all excited about and it turned out it was one of the fucking OSPI agents that had accidentally left a palm print.

Yeah, that's wild. And then like, You know, one of the photographers I read, like a crime scene photographer, went home and he saw that he had blood on his shoes when he went home and it's like...

And he was like, there was so much blood, like, you couldn't not walk through it.

Like, it was everywhere. And it's like, but, like...

I feel like that's not good. Yeah, no, let's take that off then.

Also, can you imagine realizing that when you get home?

That you have a child's blood on your shoes when you get home?

That would freak me the fuck out. No, I could not.

But yeah, so unfortunately, you know, Hart did go to prison for something else.

He did die in prison, so goodbye. Yeah. But that's all we got right now.

I wish that he lived a little longer and had to like suffer in jail.

That's what I wish. That's what I like.

Because he obviously didn't like jail because he escaped it twice.

So it would have been nice to see him kind of have to live that out. really sad case it's a really sad case yeah and i'm glad to be rid of it yeah I'm glad that's why I was like, you know what?

This could probably be like three or four parts if I really wanted it to be, but I got to get out of here.

I gotta get out of here. My Uber is here.

I cannot sit here in this. sludge for too much like i learned that lesson with myra hensley and ian brady i spent too long in there.

Yeah, and I was subjected to some shit for way too long and so were all of you.

Yeah. I just that was way too long. I was in a different headspace for weeks.

I'm still in a different age. Same. I say it all the time.

Same. And that's the one that destroyed me the most.

I was thinking about this case. Um, today too because i just like it really is just sad and also it's hard there's a lot of woods behind my apartment and my i have like huge windows in my bedroom that are always open yeah so let's go ahead and close that we're gonna close And by open, I mean the curtains are open.

Yeah, I was going to say. The windows are literally never open.

Fresh air is for dead people. Yeah. there I don't I think they've been locked from the time that I moved in here yeah I've never opened a window I've like never opened my bedroom no never i think it's like painted over you can't even open it yeah fuck that But yeah, so that is the case of the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders.

Good job. And it is Kiowa, not Kiowa. Sorry about that.

And I think everything else I pronounced correctly, so...

Good on me. You probably didn't. No, I'm totally kidding.

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At Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter.

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[The Unresolved Tragedy: Investigating the Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders (Part 2)]-[Episode 198: The Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders Part 2]

📋 Summary

The Manhunt for Gene Leroy Hart

Chilling Evidence and Near Misses

The Failure of Forensic Science and Police Conduct

The Trial and Acquittal

Aftermath and Legacy

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript