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Download Thumbtack today. Hey everybody, before we jump into this episode, I just wanted to add a little note before it just to clear something up really fast.
Ash and I believe that the murderer in this case is 100% to blame, as always.
There is never a reason to murder someone.
And especially in this case, it is completely due to homophobia.
But we do discuss the Jenny Jones show and the fact that they do shoulder responsibility to look into and vet the mental health and mental stability of the guests that they have on their television show.
Particularly the ones that they're going to put into possibly triggering positions like doing ambush things to.
I think this is true of any show because we don't know everybody's mental health.
But again, the murder in this case is 100% to blame.
And I think sometimes that our discussion about different factors can... be misconstrued as attributing blame onto something else besides the murder.
The murder is 100% to blame. There are just extenuating circumstances that also aided in creating this scene to be able to happen in the first place.
Just wanted to make that clear before we begin the episode, but we hope you enjoy.
Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alayna. And this is Morbid.
It's a real morbid. And I remembered to say what my name was before pausing.
You did. You didn't pause this time. I was proud of you.
Heyo. Heyo. You know, only took me two years.
You got it. You're here. We're all here.
We're proud of you. Let's do this together.
Alrighty, let's do the damn thing. I feel ready now.
Yeah, let's do it. See, I'm a pump-up artist, if nothing.
So I think we really only have like a couple of things we wanted to touch upon before we get into this Ash-centric episode.
Hi, it's me, Ash. The first thing was just some true crime news.
I'm sure everybody has been aware that there's been some movement in the Madeleine McCann case finally 2007 uh that case we've always wanted to cover But there was just a lot of movement in it, and I kind of wanted to wait until the moving parts have stopped.
And I think we're going to continue to wait and see on this one because things have really heated up in it and I don't want to do... what happened with the Vanessa Guillen case and have people yell at us that we did it too quick.
So I'm going to wait on this one. Yeah. And wait till the final.
Until we figure out what's going on. Because what's happening is they have this German, like, pedophile... essentially.
He's a rapist, a pedophile, like a genuine monster.
They're calling him Christian B., Christian B. Why are we even blocking out his dumb name?
Let's just release this fucker and have at it.
He's already in prison for raping a 72-year-old woman.
Oh my god. And it's on camera. What he did.
And he raped this woman in the same place in Portugal where Maddie was taken.
Oh, shit. And it was like yards away from where she was taken.
I'm sorry. I think you've said this before.
There's many coincidences in life. But this is not one of them.
That's not one of them. This is not one of them.
Also, there's not that many coincidences in life.
There's really not. Let's be real. Let's be real.
And I mean his van was seen like outside of where she was taken. it seems plausible that she would have to be put into, like, a van or something.
You know what I mean? It's just... Right.
The whole thing is really adding up. They've been searching his property.
They found a hidden cellar in his property.
They also were... looking at a well on his property that had been boarded up.
I'm sorry, if you have a boarded up well and a hidden cellar on your property...
You're up to no good. And there's somebody who's living in like one of the parts of the property right now, like she was renting part of it because he's not living there. right now, obviously.
What do you know, sis? Well, no, she, her name is Sabina Selig.
And she's the one who contacted police and were like, I think that, like, There might be things here.
Like, I'm terrified. She actually said that she is sleeping outside because she's in such a panic that she's sleeping on a dead body.
That's what she said. I'd be like, is it okay if I break my lease?
Hope you don't mind. Bye. Please and thank you.
There's another case that this guy could be connected to.
It's often referred to as the German Maddie, which I don't like.
She has a name. a human being yeah what the fuck madeline mccann is one person and this person inga garicki is a five-year-old who went missing and she went missing may 2nd 2015
From a forest in Germany. Pretty recently.
And she was at a barbecue with her family.
She went to get firewood with other children and she just disappeared.
Oh my God. And what they found was that he, Christian B., had rented a parking spot very close to where her family was having this barbecue.
Uh-huh. Yeah. you probably saw all the kids how is it that this fucker is that close to this many missing children Yeah, that just doesn't happen.
It doesn't make any sense. So they've been searching that.
I mean, I'm hoping they find something that gives closure.
Seriously. Again, I'm not going to go fully into like the Maddie case or anything like that yet because we want to cover it in a total. like, a total episode, and I have lots of thoughts, so I'm going to leave them.
Well, and I think it's nice to be able to cover a case in its entirety.
Yeah. It's like, sure, it's nice. Whenever we get updates, it's fun to be like, whoa, guys, this is updated.
But if we can get a full, you know, some closure at the end of it, obviously that's the best of it.
Wrap it up with a neat little bow on it.
And we got time because what are we all doing, you know?
We're all here together. Yeah, we'll just wait around for it.
We're all in this together. We're all going to pretend that that didn't happen.
We're just going to move right along. It's who I am.
We're going to sail right through that one.
Remember when you took me to High School Musical on Ice?
I do remember that. So you did that. I did.
You just did that to me. For you. I did.
So I think the only other thing we wanted to mention was that we are still working on next year for 2021, getting all the shows rescheduled.
Some people are probably going to be getting refunds because dates can't be set yet.
But again, we're going to update you as soon as we know these things.
I just want to Keep you abreast of the situation.
We want you to know all the updates. So that's the latest update we have is that there's really not a lot of updates.
Update is no update. We're also we're working on it, though.
We're working on it. And we're also planning some more virtual live events to keep you satiated in the meantime.
Yeah, we're going to try to get some for the, you know, all our international lovelies that, you know, it was not a crazy time the last one for you.
We'll try to work. One for you guys. You know, maybe it won't just be us next time.
Maybe. Maybe we'll invite a friend. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. Do you know?
Hi? I don't know. Hello? Who knows? I like when we talk to them like we're in the car together.
I love it. Hi, guys. Hey, girl. Hey, guy.
What's up? But I think that's really all we had to touch upon.
Yeah. So let's do this thing. All right, so before I even start my case, I have to say that so many people just like randomly one week were tweeting at me that I needed to watch Bailey Sarian's videos.
And I was like, who's Bailey Syrian? And then I sat on my couch.
It was a Sunday. I sat there for a solid eight hours and just watched 90 million Bailey Sarian videos and I was like, This girl is my soul sister.
I love her. Yes. And her videos are so good.
It's amazing. I love her. She's so talented.
So if you don't know who that is, she's a YouTuber.
And she does Makeup and Murder Mystery Mondays.
And then she also uploads on Saturdays. But the Makeup and Murder Mystery Mondays are so good.
So I was watching a ton of them and one that like really interested me and I wanted to find more and more. was the one that she did about the Jenny Jones show.
Yes. So it's the Jenny Jones secret crush murder.
I used to watch the Jenny Jones show. Okay, so cool, because in my bolded notes right here, it says, does Elena remember?
I really do because it was one of those things that like Ma wouldn't let me watch.
So I would like sneak it. I believe it.
Don't say too much because I have questions.
So let me start. I'm letting you start. I'm over here.
All right. So the Jenny Jones show premiered in 1993.
Sure did. I wasn't born yet. I love to do that to you guys.
The youths. Right. So Jenny Jones herself, I don't know, maybe you didn't know all this.
She was like a Jill of all traits. She was a comedian, a singer, and before she got her talk show, she made like random appearances like here, there and everywhere.
I didn't know that. You didn't? Well, I'm going to tell you some more about her.
Tell me about it. Do you know Wayne Newton?
I do. I figured. Wayne Newton. You don't?
No, I do. I was just making sure everybody's on the same page here.
All right, cool. Wayne Newton was the one that actually discovered Jenny.
While she was, she was like with her band touring in Las Vegas.
Yeah. And he was like, yo, that girl's so talented.
Let me, let me put her on. Wow. I didn't know that.
So she got a little bigger after that. And along the way, she kind of started to realize that comedy was more her thing.
Like she'd be singing and then in between songs she'd be like, ba-doom-ch, a joke.
She'd be vamping. You know? She's also like a really good drummer.
She did Star Search in 1986, and she ended up winning the comedy prize that included getting a $100,000 check.
Look at her. So she started to be like rolling in it.
Yeah. So she wins all that money and she keeps singing and she keeps touring and she starts getting a lot more attention and like magazines and stuff.
From media all over the place. Yeah. And that's when she got approached by Warner Brothers to do the Jenny Jones show.
I wondered how that happened. I always wonder how people get these things.
I do too. Cause it's like, who are you? Yeah.
Also her real name is not Jenny Jones. Oh, that's upsetting.
Cause I was going to say with a name like Jenny Jones. i forget what you gotta do something like that i just looked it up good her real name is janina stronsky Okay.
Yeah. I mean, that's a lot. That's actually kind of a cool name.
It is. She's Canadian-American, and I think she was born in Israel.
Wow. So I think... I mean, it's definitely not as easy to... Like, Jenny Jones is like... It rolls off the tongue.
It's easy to remember. It's like... It's... jenny jones it's like you know everybody knows jenny everyone knows the jones and like the jenny jones show just sounds like such a talk show of that era you can't have like a unique name and have a talk show like that.
No, exactly. Like Janina Stronsky wouldn't have worked.
No, because people wouldn't remember it, I think, because it would be hard to remember.
Yeah, I get that. So Jenny Jones was like, hell yeah, let's get it.
Let's do the Jenny Jones show. I'm stoked.
So now I want you to kind of talk about like what was on the Jenny Jones show.
If I remember correctly, because I watched it when I was younger, I think it was akin to a Ricky Lake. show or like almost like because Maury didn't start out with like the art you are the father well neither did Jenny started out with like more like oprah-esque yeah yeah it was it was kind of like um like i i don't know if anybody has watched now because i haven't watched it but i've seen it like in passing the tamron hall show Where she has people on and they talk about like... Oh, I've watched that like a couple times.
Yeah, it's like lots of drama and lots of like...
Right. Yeah. But the Jenny Jones show kind of started off just like you said, how Maury didn't start off.
Exactly. That's actually exactly what I didn't start off with the paternity test and stuff like that. she kind of started off wanting to be like Oprah.
Yeah, and like really talking about issues and like.
Right, like she, almost like a Dr. Phil Oprah-esque show. getting into very dramatic things with people right like and kind of like helping i guess but That doesn't make for good ratings all the time.
No. And then all these other shows, like you said, The Maury Show and Jerry Springer.
They get that grab. Ricky Lake. I think...
I think. Never mind. I forgot what I was going to say.
I'm like, I just. closed my eyes. I wish you had all seen that.
She just put her fingers over her eyes and was just like, no, never mind.
No. Because, you know, when you're going to say something and then you're like, what the fuck was I just about to say?
And it just goes, whoop, bye. Yeah. to jenny jones she was like you know what i'm not getting these ratings warner brothers was probably like we gotta keep up your show so let's go so then she started doing Things like like Bailey Sarian was saying, like her favorites were the teenage makeovers.
My goth daughter. I don't want her to look like this.
OK, that's exactly what I'm remembering.
Yeah. And like you said, the paternity test.
And then they got this episode idea that was called Secret Crush. oh yes okay oh i okay yeah do you know what yeah okay i remember this now i didn't know i couldn't find if like there had ever been one before this happened so so it wasn't It was a thing, Secret Crush.
Yeah. Okay, because the specific episode that we're going to talk about was filmed but never aired.
Yeah. Duh. I can understand why. So basically like the idea was that if you had a secret crush on somebody, You would write into the show kind of explaining your crush and like what you liked about them, who they were, who you were, and you would get on the show.
And then... you would be like sitting there on the stage and kind of explaining this about them and then they would be brought out on stage and it would be revealed right there.
I think a lot of people remember that as ambush television.
Yes. Because you are kind of ambushing somebody.
Definitely ambushing. Right. And like the person would have no idea until they were right there on stage and the cameras were rolling.
And they would have to react appropriately.
That is a little bit of an ambush. It's the definition of an ambush.
Yeah. So there was this man, Scott Amador, and he was a viewer and like a fan of the Jenny Jones show.
And he also had... A secret crush? Yes, girl.
Oh, I nailed it. A secret crush. But you know how I do these.
Before we get into that, we got to go back a little bit.
We certainly do. You got to start at the beginning.
Let's find out. Which is where I never start.
Before we get in that, I think it's important to talk a little bit about who Scott was.
Scott was born in Pittsburgh in 1963. His parents were Frank and Patricia.
Frank and Patty. Frank and Patty. You know?
They had five kids together, which like. golly good for you man so um scott had three brothers and a sister i'm not totally sure where he was in the lineup i like tried to figure it out but yeah sometimes it's hard to find that stuff Well, especially with cases like this, it's like they only tell you the story of what happened and finding background is so difficult.
It is. Yeah. Like even what I'm talking about here, I had to dig real hard to be like, who are you?
Like I got in the dirt. Other than just this.
So, yeah, the five kids, he has three brothers and a sister.
Crazy. Other than that, his childhood was pretty normal.
His parents did get divorced when he was five and he and his siblings primarily lived with their dad.
Oh, okay. So when he was 17, he decides he wants to drop out of high school and he wants to enlist in the army.
Okay. Which at that time was like not something that was so crazy.
Like a lot of people were doing that. So he does just that and he really enjoyed what he did and he was super, super good at it.
His specific specialty was satellite communications.
And not only did he do all that, but while he was enlisted, he also got his GED.
Wow, look at him go. He was like doing the damn thing.
Doing it. So he ended up being in the army for about three years and he was honorably discharged.
I think he had like broken his leg at one point.
So I think that had something to do with it.
Okay. He wasn't, but it was probably like disability kind of.
Yeah. So when he was done in the army, he was kind of just working like regular nine to five jobs, kind of like the stuff that he was doing in the army, like the satellite work and everything.
Yeah. But then he kind of realized that he preferred working at night.
He was like, you know, nightlife is kind of my thing.
Like, I like to talk to people. I love the nightlife, baby.
The nightlife is for me. I was going to say like the nightlife didn't choose me.
I chose the nightlife the other way around.
Anyways, so he was like, I'm going to become a bartender.
Oh, hey, that's a perfect nightlife job.
Perfect nightlife job. And he really loved, like I said, talking to people.
And according to his friends and family, he was a super good time, like really friendly guy.
So there you go. Bartender is perfect for you.
He was also somebody who would help anybody if they needed it.
Scott himself identified as gay. And a lot of his friends had been diagnosed with the AIDS virus.
And if they didn't have anywhere to go, he would take them in like no questions asked and just take care of them.
I love that. What a human. That's like a little bit about Scott.
Yeah. Even from that little blip, it's like, wow, Scott, you're pure AF.
Yeah, you really are. So now back to the Jenny Jones show, which is a little not pure AF.
No, not at all. Like I said. He was a fan of Jenny Jones.
He liked to watch it. And he was like, we all did.
I mean, what the fuck else are you going to do?
It's daytime television. And he was at home during the day.
Yeah. So there it is. And this was at its peak.
Peak. Like daytime television. Right. Yeah.
So a little bit before he, he ends up writing into the Jenny Jones show about a secret crush.
Okay. But a little bit before he did that, he was heading to his brother's apartment to like hang out or something for the day.
And his friend Donna Riley also lived in the same complex.
Okay. So he like walks in there that day and he's like, oh, look, it's Donna.
He runs into her. And she's like standing outside of her car.
And she had a friend working on her car.
And he's like, oh, who's this fella working on your car?
Who's this tall drink of water? Exactly.
Someone called John that once and... I never forget it.
Remember when he thought that was an insult?
He thought it was an insult. He had never heard that.
Being called a tall drink of water was an insult.
I was like, why is that insulting? Why would that be insulting? insult i don't know also why would anybody say that like no it means you're handsome like look at this tall drink of water and then you were like who said it to you hydrating me hydrating me It was an older gentleman.
It was pretty wonderful. I loved it. Wow, that's whimsy.
Yeah, I was like, I agree. I was like, that's true.
That's onesie right there. So Donna's outside.
She's got this tall drink of water working on her car.
And Scott thought this guy was super cute, super good looking.
And he was like immediately interested. awesome so who's this guy yeah who is he jonathan schmitz jonathan schmitz it's a really fun last name to say there it is He was like 25, 26 at the time, and Scott didn't know if he was gay or not.
Yeah. So Donna was pretty sure he wasn't, but she was like, I do remember Jonathan mentioning his family had questioned him on whether or not he was gay.
Oh, okay. At one point. So she was like, I'm not sure.
Like, yeah, could be. Maybe he's bi. Like he hasn't come out to me.
Right. So he... And, like, the reason his family had been asking him about it is because he had, like, multiple girlfriends.
And actually, I think... I think it was Bailey Sarian who said it, or I read it somewhere, that he was engaged at one point to a woman and it didn't work out.
Okay. So after meeting Jonathan and becoming like super interested, he just he really like thought this guy was so cute.
And I'll get to that at some point, but it like makes me sad.
Oh, that hurts my heart. I know. So he sees that Jenny Jones secret crush thing and he's like, oh my God, that's perfect.
So, honestly, to me, it seems Scott kind of just thought this was going to be like a super like... cute and light-hearted way to fun thing to shoot his shot yeah and it's like i i feel like that's something i would do like if i didn't if i wasn't dating annie and like i was interested in her i'd be like oh my god like secret crush like i fucking love tv let's make it a big deal like wouldn't i want to be on tv like like let's make it like a limelight situation Right.
And I think Scott was kind of, I feel like I kind of like, like resonate with him a little bit.
Like, I'm like, I get you. I get where you're coming from.
He had a little extra too. Yeah. Like he was ready for it.
I get that. Even his brother said he was like, I think he just wanted to be on TV, like thought the whole thing would be fun.
And again, it's just a fun way to shoot your shot.
Right, so I don't think he thought anything bad would come of it other than, like, maybe Jonathan not having mutual feelings.
And then maybe they could just be like, well, you know, I tried.
And it seems like Scott was the kind of guy who would just be like, oh, well.
I gave it a shot. Exactly. We tried. So the show was set to tape on May 6th, 1995.
Scott and Donna. Donna actually went with him.
Donna, they flew to Chicago where the show was taped.
They flew together and Donna was like kind of his wing woman for the trip.
Love Donna. I love that Donna. Probably like you're the cutest.
And Jonathan obviously didn't know that they were going, so he's going separately because he has no idea that, like, it's...
Scott that's interested in him. Oh man. So they all fly out to Chicago separately except for You get it.
They fly out there. You got it. You know who's with who.
They're all using air travel. appropriately to get there which also i think a flight uh they lived in michigan and the show was in chicago i'm pretty sure that flight is like half an hour yeah i was gonna say that doesn't seem it's like a boston to new york yeah But so all the producers apparently had told Jonathan before he flew out. that the premise of the show was that someone had a crush on him and it would be revealed on the show.
I don't really know what happened. Sorry, I stopped recording to give Ash a moment to collect her vocal cords off the floor.
Are you good, sis? Do you smoke a pack a day?
But, yeah. I don't. She's okay. On the show.
Not on the show. On the show. okay get it together that's like the really metal version of the show on the show okay okay all right back So they were like, yep, somebody has a crush on you.
It's going to be real on the show. And. I think, like I said before, Jonathan was engaged before.
So I think it was Bailey Sarian who said it, and I wish I remembered.
But either way, he thought that it was going to be his fiancée.
Oh. So he was like, okay, like I'll go on the show and she'll be there and yada, yada, yada.
Okay, that makes sense. So it's the day of filming.
Jenny Jones opens up and Scott and Donna are sitting there on the stage.
And Jenny Jones is explaining who Scott is to the audience and like, what his secret crush is.
So she's like, Scott, explain what Jonathan looks like.
And Tell us why you're so interested. You know, like, what's up?
Like, why are you here? So basically, Scott is just like, I think this dude is super cute.
Like... He got a little, like, intense with it.
Like, I forget, I don't have a direct quote of what he said, but he basically was just like, I think he's really hot.
Yeah. And then she was like, I know you also have this kind of like fantasy about him.
Like, can you tell us what that is? And Scott was like, yeah, bitch.
So he didn't say that. But he was like, basically, it was along the lines of like, I have a hammock in my yard and like.
I would get some champagne and some strawberries and whipped cream and like maybe it involved like tying somebody up.
Oh, at first I was like, that's so pure.
And then it's like the hammock. I was like, adorable.
So cute. I mean, it's all still adorable.
I was gonna say that's still great. Especially with a willing, consenting partner.
There it is. Adorable. Great date night.
Get it. He had a fucking plan. Honestly, good job, Scott.
Good job, Scott. He was ready and willing.
So, yeah, that's what the fantasy involved.
Obviously, there's a sexual connotation behind that.
Yeah. And I think, like, Scott was kind of joking at the same time.
Well, he was probably just, like, playing it up.
Like, you're gonna be like... We've all done that with a crush.
Like, we're all just like, oh, my God, the things I would do if they were interested.
Right. you're gonna be crazy you're playing it up too because you're on tv so you're on the jenny jones show you gotta bring the sauce yeah you can't just go on there and be like I think they're a very nice person.
I think I would like to take him to dinner and pay for the check.
I think they're attractive. Right. Like, Jenny Jones would be like, you need to give me something.
She's like, so do you want a phook or not?
Like, let's... get it let's talk about the real shit so while all this is happening Jonathan is backstage and he has headphones in so he just not gonna hear anything They don't want to spoil the secret of who the crush is, even though he thinks he knows.
Jenny then is like, well, let's bring Jonathan out.
So Jonathan walks out and he's like grinning and he's like.
You can tell he's a little surprised, but he doesn't look like shooketh.
Like angry or anything. No. And I think when he walked out at first, he thought it might have been Donna who had the secret on him because...
He gives her a hug and they all know each other.
Yeah. So he gives her a hug and a kiss on the cheek.
And then as he's about to kind of go give Scott a hug or sit down, Jenny Jones is like, so did you know it was scott with the crush on you like it's scott it's not donna and he's like And you can tell he gets like slightly uncomfortable and they still give each other a hug, but it is a little bit of a weird hug.
You can see a shift in like the... atmosphere a little bit the slightest shift it's nothing like almost like indiscernible right like If we weren't talking about this case, it would have just been like, wow, that guy handled that so well.
Even though, like, fuck off. It's nothing to handle.
Exactly. But, like, he didn't make it weird.
Right. He didn't make it weird. He's like sort of nervously laughing, but looks normal otherwise.
And then Jenny Jones is like, oh, excuse me, before I say what she said.
When he sits down, he looks at, because he's sitting right next to Scott.
Scott is in the middle, then Jonathan, and then on the other side, Donna.
Okay. And when he sits down, he looks at them and he goes, you guys lied to me.
And he says it laughing, but he says it laughing.
So I couldn't find like what exactly that meant.
Hmm. Now, I feel like you have like, what do you think?
I'm just think I just whenever somebody says something like that, like you lied to me is never like I think that's really funny.
That's him being like, oh, you lied to me.
You lied to me. And I'm real pissed about it.
But we're on TV right now. So I'm going to say you lied to me. yeah and it's like one of those like i'm gonna fuck you up but like you i'm gonna pretend it's fine right now okay i mean to me that's how i would immediately take that i get that I also came up with this idea in my head just to kind of explain the whole thing.
I was like, I, because remember, he lived in the same apartment complex as Donna and scott's brother lived there too oh yeah so part of me kind of wonders if they like ran into each other with luggage and that he was like oh where are you going and they said something else I forgot that they lived in the same apartment complex.
So that makes sense. But also your thing makes sense, too.
It all kind of makes sense. I think maybe it was a combination of both.
Because he could have been like, oh, you lied to me about where you were going, like that this was all going to be happening.
Like you lied to me. Like about that and I'm annoyed. yeah like I'm real annoyed right now so it gets better but then you wonder too maybe they maybe they let or Donna maybe or someone let him believe that it was his fiance or like yeah pushed that narrative slightly maybe or like didn't dispel it if he brought it up That's a good idea.
And maybe he was excited about that and then he was disappointed.
Yeah. There's a lot of possibilities. There is. we don't really know unfortunately yeah so he he sits down and he says that and then um Then Jenny kind of is obviously it's her fucking daytime television talk show where she's trying to get the ratings.
Ratings. Exactly. And she's like, oh, well, like, let's. playback the tape so that Jonathan can hear about the fucking sexual fantasy that Scott has about him.
And Scott's like, okay. He seems fine with it.
And Jonathan is, I hate to say a good sport about it because it's like. there's nothing wrong with being gay, obviously, like, at all, but... But honestly, male or female, if, like, if...
It's like, gay, straight, bi, whatever it is.
I feel like this situation is a weird situation regardless.
Right. So I think him just not being a good sport means just like him being a good sport about being told on national television about something like this.
I just wanted to say what I meant so that it's clear.
Yeah. You've got to make it clear. Yeah.
So he's a good sport about it. He like sits through the fantasy and then Jenny's like.
Because that would be uncomfortable for anybody.
Well, yeah. And I mean, slightly embarrassing.
And I'm going to get to that a little bit later.
For sure. The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic.
Binge all episodes of The Mystic and the Mare exclusively and ad-free right now on Wondery+.
Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or the Wondery app. what he's like oh like that's flattering and she's like so are you single and he's like I am but and he says right on the show he's like I am single I'm available but I am 100% heterosexual.
Okay. Like, I am not gay. And it kind of seems like...
You can't watch the entire thing, so I've just seen bits and pieces, and that's what you see.
And I don't know how it ends or anything like that, but I do know...
It is frustrating, but I do know that they all hung out together afterwards.
So it's not like it was this big bomb drop of like... No.
I mean, I'm sure it was a bomb drop slightly, but it seemed like he kind of got over it.
And then they all went to dinner together. and had drinks and flew back home together.
Because it's also like, sure, this is a little on a different level because he brought him on TV to do it.
Right. But it's like... I think a lot of people have had this kind of situation where either you think someone's you have a crush on someone, you tell them or you have someone else tell them, they're like, I don't feel the same way.
Right. You either that's it and you just kind of fade apart.
Right. You're just like, whatever. One of my best friends, Jeff.
I love this story. Jeff, you listen, don't you?
Like, I had a crush on Jeff and Jeff was like, yeah, like, I don't like you.
So. yeah and not like that he was just like i don't like you romantically yeah and it didn't work out but we're still friends exactly and i was just like still friends my face just turned red did you see that I still like, but we'll, we like hang out from time to time and we're like LOL member when I like professed that I liked you and he was like, yeah, but.
You can be cool about it. You can get totally moved past it and it just becomes a funny part of your relationship history.
I can feel how my faces I feel like I'm like it's a big deal for everybody I'm picturing all these people listening to this my unrequited feelings no I'm totally kidding But it's true.
It's like, you can move past it and be totally fine.
Exactly. So it makes sense that they were like, ah, whatever.
That's weird. That was the craziest thing. story that we can tell later for a little while and it's like why didn't just why didn't you just keep going with that right so it didn't take long for them to not keep going with that Three days after the show taped, Jonathan was returning home and he was either returning home or leaving and he found a note taped to his door.
And it said something, it was alongside some kind of like construction light or equipment.
And it said something along the lines of, quote you have the right tools to turn this on which i think is fucking hilarious if i got that note i'd be like that's great like like what But he knew that it was from Scott.
And he was like, I'm not gay. Like, I'm not interested.
And he... I don't want to say he snapped because I... Because, like, get it together.
Get it together, but... But he, in a way, snapped.
And he decided... Well, something snapped in him.
Right. Yeah. He decided right then and there that he was going to kill Scott. dude it's that is like big fucking jump dude come on like just go to like just be like you know what i'm not interested please stop And if he doesn't stop, go from there.
But it's not okay to kill anybody for any fucking reason ever.
You have to sit down with him and be like...
Like, lay out your boundaries. We can either be friends, but if you can't handle that, then we need to not hang out and not talk.
Exactly. You need communication. This is called being a mature adult with Elena and Ash.
Exactly. So that's not at all what happened.
Give it a try, man. I think the big problem here was that Jonathan was pissed off that Scott put him on the show.
Yeah, for sure. he was going to be potentially, even though he said on the show, like I'm 100% heterosexual, I think he was very nervous about what people were going to think of him.
Yeah. And especially his family, which I'm going to get into later.
Oh, I'm sure that played a role in it. Like I said, he makes the decision right there.
He's fucking enraged and he drives right to the bank to take out money.
Then drives to the store to get a gun. And I'm pretty sure he drove to a separate store to get ammunition.
Oh. And then he immediately drives to Scott's home.
He sits outside of Scott's place for a while, which like right then and there, that's fucking premeditation.
You could have stopped. This whole trip along the way there, you could have stopped at some point.
Oh, he made several stops to plan this whole thing out.
Exactly. Right. Hello planned. Hello. He knocks on the door and confronts Scott.
And I'm pretty sure based on a few of the articles that I read, the first time he went to the door, he did not have the gun. oh okay and then some like the conversation got heated and he goes back to the car and he grabs the gun, obviously.
He opens the screen door with the tip of, and it was a 12 gauge Buckeye shotgun.
Yuck. Oh, that is like 12 gauge Buckeye shotgun.
That's that's intending to do a lot of damage.
A lot of damage. Scott yelled to his roommate, Gary, that Jonathan had a gun, like basically like help me.
And it was already too late because Jonathan pulled the trigger twice and fired two shots directly into Scott's chest.
Oh. at like super close range. Oh, my God.
So close range that paper waiting from one of the shells was found in Scott's heart.
And then a fragment from the other shell was found in his left lung.
Wow. So like insanely close. Wow. There was also evidence that Scott had held up a chair to try and defend himself.
Oh. Which is that's going to come back later.
Oh, that makes me so sad. So Jonathan immediately fleed the scene. flood flood the scene and started driving toward his sister's house.
She lived like close by, I guess. And he stopped at a gas station to use the payphone and called 911 and turned himself in.
Wow. Yeah. And he told the operator, he's like, obviously, I just shot a man.
And the operator was like, why did you do that?
Why, sir? I think she was just shocked. And he said to the operator. this the guy that i shot played a really awful trick on me oh so he so that did a lot the the actual trick of getting him on the show seems to be a big trigger.
It was in his psyche. That's a big trigger.
Right. so scott's roommate gary had also called the police and an ambulance came as well but it was already too late scott was pronounced dead And they found the chair he tried to use to defend himself knocked over not far from where he was lying.
So... Oh, this just didn't need to happen.
No. I know all murderers are senseless, you know, but like...
This is especially a really tough case. Like communication breakdown from the jump.
When it's just like... It goes to show how, like, how differently people think to one person.
It might just be super lighthearted, good fun, like.
Everybody has a different definition of lighthearted fun.
And that's like pranks, especially. Pranks go wrong.
Some people think it's fun. Some people in some people have it from like childhood where they got teased or something and it's a huge trigger for them.
I think you and, like, our family is big on teasing, and sometimes it can go too far.
Yeah. I think you and I, especially, we don't like to be teased. can see like on both of our I know when Ash has hit her threshold of like it's not funny anymore And same with you.
It just shoots right over you. And it enrages you.
You're suddenly like, all right, fuck off, everybody.
Shut up. I'm obviously neither of us has ever gotten violent with our family, but it does kind of like flick this switch in your head where you're like you want to like slam your fist on a table or like.
And that's why those shows like the Jenny Jones show and all these shows that ambush people.
That's so dangerous. It is. And I'm not saying it's their fault.
Like directly or anything but like I think that these kind of shows should have a lot more like psych like psychologists being involved in this and being like this isn't a good idea.
This isn't something that's going to end well 100% of the time.
And that's a big part of this case. Yeah.
And we're going to get into that. Yeah, because the psychology is just overlooked here.
It is. Everyone does not find being ambushed or surprised fun.
Right. That's not everybody's idea of like yippee.
I'm surprised at all. And honestly, I wouldn't want to.
And I know I said earlier, like, I would think that was fun, but I wouldn't want to actually be on the receiving end if I didn't have those feelings.
Exactly. Because it's like either way, you kind of look like an asshole to some people if you don't have those feelings.
And it's. It's forcing a feeling out of you.
Think of like catfish. That's completely different because like that person has been catfishing somebody.
Yeah. But think of how embarrassed those people are and, like, the levels that they go to.
Exactly. And it's, like, how embarrassed they can be.
Yeah. It's all, it's just, you gotta, I think those shows, I mean, it was a time when we weren't probably thinking too hard into the actual, you know, things that were going to be coming out of this yeah so i think it's just now we think a little more about those things the 90s the 90s am i right So Jonathan was taken into custody and he admitted everything to the police, even telling them that once he found the note right then and there, that's when he decided to kill Scott.
So he told them everything. That's like rare.
It is rare. It's strange. This is a very interesting case.
Yeah, it's very strange. He went to trial in 1996 and obviously was up for first-degree murder.
The defense had a few tricks up their sleeve though, so they They use the good old gay panic defense.
The stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.
I... It's an absolute joke. I don't understand how it's still a thing.
Because it still isn't... most states honestly in fact we we laid out in the if you listen to matthew shepherd i think it was part two that we talked about where it's still a thing.
I think I laid out each state where it's pending.
I was going to say it's being worked on to be thrown out.
If you listen to that episode, you'll hear how many states still have it, how many don't, how many are pending to get it off the books.
And this was right around the same time, like I said, 1996.
Yeah, because Massachusetts is in the process of getting off the books.
It's still pending, right. So they used the gay panic defense.
They also argued that Jonathan was mentally ill and he suffered from manic depression and Graves disease.
Oh, okay. So I didn't know what Graves' disease was actually.
That's interesting. So I looked it up. And according to the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, Graves' disease is, quote, an autoimmune disorder that causes hyperthyroidism.
Yes. or overactive thyroid. Your immune system attacks the thyroid and causes it to make more thyroid hormone than your body needs.
The thyroid is a small butterfly-shaped gland in the front of your neck.
So, yeah. Sure is. And you can also make your eyes bulge.
That's a sign of Graves' disease. I didn't know that.
So the defense argued that some of the side effects of Graves' disease, and this is true, are irritability and irrational, sometimes violent behavior, which is true.
Yeah. Essentially, what they were saying was that their client was homophobic yes uh so he freaked out aka panicked when scott admitted the crush on this ambush tv show and the note was what pushed him over the edge and the graves disease helped along the way because it helped him to it just helped fuel the already the already there thoughts that he was having naturally so i hate to even use this but the perfect storm yeah exactly what it was because by no means is anyone saying grave disease it makes you dangerous no and actually and actually i'm gonna talk about that later too okay good Let's go.
Um, the prosecution argued that Jonathan could have stopped at any point along the way to Scott's house.
He definitely stopped before he went to the bank while he was on the way to get the gun. the ammunition.
While he was sitting outside, he was pretty much sitting outside, I'm sure, contemplating what he was going to do.
So, like I said, that right then and there is... yeah premeditation a lot of times he could have stopped so there were some issues in the case there were two confessions made by Jonathan.
Like I said, he told them everything. There was a videotaped one and a regular oral one. but the judge would not allow them to be used in the trial because...
One was made before Jonathan was read his Miranda rights.
Oh, I knew they were going to say that. They didn't Miranda-ize him.
Nope. Which is, I'm like, isn't that... that it is the first thing you should be like but oftentimes why have you seen cops hello God.
And then the other one was made before he had been given a right to counsel.
So part of the Miranda rights. Exactly. So it all had to do with Miranda rights.
Then there was the issue of the overturned chair because you kind of had to go one way versus the other.
The prosecution tried to say that the chair had been used in a completely different manner.
I knew that's what you were gonna say. Excuse me, manner. to throw at Jonathan.
And that's when things got heated. And really, how are you going to argue that?
I mean, nobody knows except the two people that were standing there.
And Gary was there and I, the roommate, but I don't know if he was able to testify or like what the deal was with that.
I couldn't. i'm sorry find too much about it yeah sometimes you can't they really just can't but and basically they were saying that could have set him off and like that's when he went and got the gun Yeah, I mean, anytime someone throws a chair at you, it's definitely a good idea to grab a shotgun and pump two shells into them.
Yeah, it's definitely not. I'd be like, guys, yeah, that doesn't... Still not a good defense.
Still not doing it. But I think they were saying like, well, they both got violent.
Yeah, of course. Lawyers have to... make their case somehow they do they got to do their job so multiple people testified at the trial And some of them, this is interesting, some of them actually said that they thought that Scott and Jonathan had slept together.
Oh. I don't know. Jonathan's father testified.
Now, Jonathan's father, I said that fast, testified in... kind of gave essence to the home that jonathan was brought up in when he was younger oh his father was uh definitely homophobic.
There's literally no other way to put it.
It makes sense that he would raise a homophobic son.
And if you think back to, I said, Donna Riley had said that Jonathan told her his family had questioned if he was gay in the past.
So clearly it was not. An acceptable, good thing to be gay in this family.
Okay. And, um... He also, at one point, he was being cross-examined.
And while he was on the stand, he asked one of the lawyers in- in response to a question well how would you feel if someone thought you were gay And I don't think the lawyer is going to be like, you know what, sir, you're totally right.
I'd be homicidal is what I would be. I would shoot someone.
You idiot. Are you kidding me? okay like how would you feel if someone thought you were gay like what like i'd be like well you're i'm not on the stand so fuck off no and i'd be like what kind of fucking question is that right Like giving credence to you should kill someone if they think you're gay?
Like what? Exactly. So... that happened.
So I think that kind of gave, like I said, a lot of insight to people about where Jonathan came from.
For sure. And it kind of seemed like the jurors had a soft spot for him.
And if you see him too, I think that's another thing.
He was like... This, like, young guy. He kind of looked like somebody that would be, like, on TV in one of those.
He would be, like, the heartthrob in the teenager. show yeah and like you could see why scott really dug him yeah you could see why scott dug him And you could, I guess, see why these jurors felt bad.
I guess. I don't. It's human nature is a weird thing.
It is. It's like the Diane Downs thing. It is.
Well, and they couldn't look at him and think of him as this evil monster.
In fact, one of them... was like i feel like he would be like my son or like my friend yeah and i couldn't get that out of my head and and honestly his counsel probably played that up in a big way.
Dressing him in a certain way. Graphic t-shirt sweatshirt things.
Yeah. So, and they also couldn't get over the fact that if it were not for the Jenny Jones show, this situation probably never would have happened.
I mean, yeah. And I think if I was on that jury, I would think the exact same thing.
I honestly might, too, because it's like...
I don't know if Scott would have got, you know, if anything, he would have just told him how he felt.
And he wouldn't have felt... you know, that he had to answer in front of the world.
Well, that's the thing. It wouldn't have been a national event.
Yeah, it would have just been like a conversation between two people.
And maybe his family and friends wouldn't have found out and it would have been.
And who knows? if jonathan felt the same way and just felt like he couldn't say it because it was in front of the world and then he felt pissed that scott did it in front of the whole world so he couldn't answer him the way he wanted to.
Again, this is just speculating, totally.
But it's all very valid speculation. So.
And obviously does not, none of it equals like definitely go kill someone for that.
None of it condones his actions. We're just trying to.
I think we always try to understand the psyche.
And it goes back to the show. The ambush.
Right. The ambush way that they were doing things.
Yeah. the jurors couldn't get that out of their heads.
So they convicted Jonathan of second degree murder because he did murder somebody at the end of the day.
Yeah. So they convicted him of second degree murder.
And the judge sentenced him to a minimum of 25 years to a max of 50 years.
And the judge looked at him and told him he had three days to stop himself after the show and deal with what had happened and then said, This sentence will rob you of your youth, not your life.
Wow. Which it's like you robbed somebody of their life, but I'm not going to do the same thing to you.
Jonathan's lawyer urged him to sue the show after this or at least think about it and to use all his appeals.
And he did end up appealing his sentence in 1998.
His case was overturned and he was retried, but he got the same verdict.
He was the same sentence. Because I was like, if they reduce that, I was going to be pissed.
Yeah, I was going to be pissed, too. Um, the Amadere family was also not happy at the end of the day.
Yeah. That's Scott's family. In fact, Scott's brother, Frank, basically put it like our family lost their son and brother and so did Jonathan's family.
And both of the families agreed. this would not have happened if it weren't for the Jenny Jones show.
They both, it seemed like everybody was in agreeance.
And it's like, and it's not, Scott is, It shouldn't be the one to have to figure out the psychology behind all this.
It's like the show should have known and should have had people to determine this. exactly you know it's not scott scott being like it's not scott's fault and it's i don't want to say it's not jonathan's fault but i think they were both put in a position where they didn't think about the outcomes yeah because i think other i think people with more knowledge should have stopped this right people who are uh have have a have a platform and should be more responsible with their platform yeah I guess is a way to put that also gross noise that I made it's a very weird This is a very weird case.
It is weird because it's like you also can't put all the blame on the Jenny Jones show.
No, you can't. Some of it does need. He did.
Jonathan made a choice. A decision. To murder someone.
Right. But I. No reason at all. Right. And I think it's very easy to kind of go back and forth.
I went back and forth with how I felt the entire time I was researching this.
And I'm still back and forth about how I feel.
Yeah, I think what really runs the vein that runs through all of this is homophobia for sure.
Homophobia, definitely. And it's either like internalized like self-hatred or it's just learned behavior that was taught to him.
I think it was a little bit of both. Yeah.
So, like I said, both families were not happy.
They had both lost their child or brother or, you know.
So in 1999, the Amateur family sued the Jenny Jones show in a wrongful death suit.
Yeah. Jenny Jones herself, who she had previously put out a statement saying she wanted, she literally was like, I just want to clear some things up, which it's like, oh, Maybe don't start that way.
Oh, honey, no. Like, nope, somebody is dead.
Don't do that. She claimed no responsibility.
Like, she claimed that the show is not responsible at all. okay jenny yeah fucking bullshit but okay jenny ends up getting fucked over real hard cool jenny um she went on the show as well as the producers from the show and they admitted that they didn't know or ask about Jonathan's mental health at the time of the show or before the show.
Yeah, that's That's a problem. Right then and there is negligent.
They also testified that they told him his secret crush could be a man or a woman, but they did agree that he was maybe led to believe that it was a woman.
Oh, come on. Right. Come on, guys. So... You didn't pull the trigger, but that's some culpability there.
You didn't pull the trigger, but you... You helped.
Yeah, you pushed some things along here.
So the attorney that was hired by the Amador family is intense as fuck.
It's Jerry Figer. Oh, yeah, I've heard that name.
He's so fucking intense. If this happened in our family, he would be the dude that I want to hire because he went balls to the wall.
Good. He had Jenny on the stand and he went to town on her.
Good. In the cross-examination before, when it was, like, the defense, or when it was not the family, their lawyer, I'm so bad at that.
Prosecution. Yes, thank you. The prosecution, she did really well on the stand, but once Jerry Feigar got her, she fucking crumbled.
Crumbled. So he basically went after her and asked her questions about the advertising for her show.
Um, he argued that she wanted to be like Oprah in the beginning, but then when she realized that ambush television was where the money was at, that's what she got into.
Mm-hmm. Um, he also asked her about whether or not the guests were prepared for the show and like other questions about how the show worked when it came to guests and getting them on the show.
Basically asking, is there some kind of process where you... make sure that they're mentally capable.
You vet them, like, properly. And she didn't have an answer.
Because they didn't. Right. And he argued, how can you claim no responsibility when you don't even know what's going on behind the scenes of your own show?
Like, it's ridiculous. And she actually had written a book where she talked about the murder and everything.
And in the book, she claimed no responsibility.
And it's like... That's so shady of her.
You can't claim no responsibility when you have no idea your name is on this.
I would want to know every fucking in and out of that show.
If my name, like I know every in and out of morbid, you know, our names are on it.
You need to know what's going on. Like, Obviously very different situations, but especially on that level.
Yeah, it's the same thing. Like when we were, you know, the Facebook group is on its way out because our name is attached.
Right. And we can't vet every single person that gets into that group and what their opinions are and what they're going to say.
Exactly. And we don't want it attached to us.
I don't want to be associated to that. So you have to take care of that shit.
That's your name. That's your name. That's what you got.
The decision was made by the jury at the end of the trial that the Jenny Jones show, Warner Brothers, who produced the show... and Telepictures Productions were to pay the Amadeer family 25 to 29 million dollars in damages.
Wow. I read 25 in some places and 29 in others.
The family never saw a dime of that money.
That's fucked. Never saw a dime. and The Jenny Jones Show appealed multiple times.
That is shady. In 2002, the Michigan State Court throughout the original jury ruling of the money awarded to the amateur family, stating that the show had no legal responsibility to protect a guest on the show after it aired.
That's, yeah, and that's not even. And it's like, but you had to protect them while they were there.
And you didn't. Yeah, exactly. Jenny Jones said that she was, quote, elated by the decision.
Oh, good. And then went on to say. Scott Amadere's murder was a horrible tragedy, but I have always believed that it was fundamentally wrong and unfair to blame the show.
I am thrilled that the Court of Appeals agreed that the show could not possibly have predicted and prevented this brutal crime.
Okay. Sure, you can't predict it by any stretch.
We're not calling you a witch. But by bringing people off the street. who you know nothing about.
You have a responsibility. And failing to learn a damn thing about them or their mental health. before bringing them on and doing something that would stress out somebody without any mental health issues.
That's your fault. Exactly. And actually, I think I said I was going to get into that later when we were talking about how he felt and like how it would be awkward to have anybody profess that. their sexual feelings toward you in front of a lot of people.
I'm not entirely sure exactly who it was, but one of the lawyers who was cross examining somebody on trial was like, how would you, like, why don't I ask you about you and your wife, like, a sexual fantasy, like, between you and your wife?
And the guy was like, no, I'm not fucking talking about that.
That's embarrassing. No. point proven exactly you don't want to talk about it exactly so the jenny jones show was canceled in 2003
Finally, too late when its ratings basically plummeted.
And as for Jonathan Schmitz, he was let out of prison on good behavior in 2017.
He was 47 and he had served 22 years of his sentence.
Wow. Yeah. Scott's brother, Frank, who actually suffers from Graves disease himself and said it never made him violent.
No. Of course not. Said that he hoped Jonathan is actually sorry.
He hopes that he received psychiatric treatment while he was in jail and he hopes that he's not homophobic anymore.
Wow. So, that's a tough... Tough case.
And I think if you want to watch, I watched this show on Netflix.
It's called Trial by Media. This is the first episode.
And Frank Amador, Scott's brother, talks a lot.
He's like the primary one being interviewed.
And he was literally right outside. of Scott's home the day his body was taken away oh my god and like he he talks a lot about the experience of them growing up together and it's just senseless who he was and And how he feels about Jonathan now.
And the thing that sits at the heart of it is just homophobia.
Homophobia. That's really... That's really, really, really unfortunate that this is the end result of that.
And it's just so sad that, I mean... It's sad that both families lost somebody.
Yeah, and it really pisses me off that Jenny Jones could have come out and she could have been like, We need to do better.
We need to fix this. And this was, we did not think this through.
We were not, we were negligent. I would have been like.
Wow. And people would... Because all people want... I mean, this is a very large mistake.
Yeah. But when mistakes happen, you gotta...
Own up to it, man. Well, and turn it around and make something come out of it.
Try to fix it. Try to go, you know what?
All right, this... this happened and we're gonna try we're we might not succeed but we're gonna give it a shot right because because it's my responsibility now to do that but she and instead she's She was like, I have nothing to do with that.
And it's like, you asshole. Your name is all over that thing.
And that's the other thing. It's negligent.
And that's the whole thing they were trying to argue.
And I hope, I mean, they did argue in the original sentencing that The show was negligent.
It went down as negligence. Jenny Jones herself was negligent as fuck.
She didn't know what was happening on her own show.
Yeah, you can't have people coming onto the show and being ambushed for anything.
If you don't know, I mean, that could have triggered him the second he walked out on the stage if he was mentally unstable.
Well, think about it. Anything could have. lights could have triggered someone applause can trigger like you don't know anything about this person Well, think about even the Maury show and the Jerry Springer show.
People get into fist fights on those shows.
Yeah, they go crazy. And I mean, I'm assuming now things are much different and you kind of have I'm sure they have to sign waiver upon waiver.
Yeah. they're hopefully their psychology is looked into some of it it's like you know i'm sure a lot of it staged and all that but like back then it wasn't it was not at all it was all like let's just terrify this person Let's just get paid for it.
And then they put Scott in a position where it was like, yeah, this is all fun.
And everybody's going to think this is fun because you think it's fun.
And it's like, so what was he to do? He thought this was just fun.
Well, and he was a fan of the show. He'd watched it in the past, I'm sure.
Exactly. He was a fan of Jenny Jones. He probably saw that everything ended up fine with everybody else.
Right. So, I mean, Jonathan's a murderer, straight up.
Black and white is what it is. He's a dangerous human being.
Right. He's obviously mentally unstable in some way.
And well, like Frank's brother said, excuse me, Scott's brother Frank said, I hope he did get psychiatric treatment while he was in jail.
Yeah, I mean, I hope he did too, especially because he's out.
I mean, the whole point of jail is to...
Rehabilitate. Exactly. So let's hope. Because Scott was by no means at fault for any of this.
He didn't do anything wrong at all. I really think all the responses, I think it's like, I don't want to say 50-50 because it's not 50-50, but all the responsibility falls on the Jenny Jones show and Jonathan.
I don't know in what percentages, but...
I feel like those meld together. I've been looking at this case for weeks and that's my final conclusion.
That's how I feel. So if you want to go watch that show, definitely watch that Netflix show.
That's interesting. There's like shit ton. of articles about this um you can watch the court tv like things online proceedings and watch bailey sarian's videos because they're so good they are she's great and thank you to everybody who told us to watch her yeah because she's great yeah wow That was a crazy one.
It was. That's nuts. And share your thoughts nicely and respectfully when we post this.
And, uh, cause some people might not agree and that's fine.
Like what our thoughts are. Well, and that's, that's like.
That's part of the fun of doing this. Just remember, be nice.
Be respectful about it. Leave the snark at home. opinions are not wrong have nice debates if you want um we're gonna stay out of it but we're gonna let you guys talk about it have fun love you so much Well, yeah, you can follow us on Instagram if you would like to share your respectful thought at Morbid Podcast.
If you would like to share a respectful tweet on Twitter, go ahead. a morbid podcast and if you would like to send us a respectful gmail go ahead morbid podcast at gmail.com we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you tour with a rock band and you're like oh my god i'm so good at drumming and then somebody finds you and you're like oh my god i'm so good at comedy and then you become a comedian then you're like oh my god i'm gonna have my own tv show but i'm not gonna look into any of the mental stability of the people that I'm gonna have on the show and I'm gonna ambush the fuck out of them and then it's gonna turn out really badly and I'm gonna claim no responsibility.
You really shouldn't keep it that weird.
Don't. Bye. Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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