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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is an Elena Morbid, but it's a main episode, so obviously.
So it's all of our morbids. It's everybody's morbid equally.
This is a case that is kind of like near and dear to my soul.
Near and dear to your soul, okay. It is.
Because Boston... And it happened the year that you were born.
It did happen the year I was born, so...
It's actually near and dear to my heart, and I'll tell you why when we get to that part.
Love that. Okay. Because this was the first one.
This is one of the first cases that I remember like vividly remember being fascinated by.
Yeah, I get that. I think it's because it was in Boston, too, so it horrified me. listening to this case afterwards, I always thought it was an interesting case.
And then when you brought it up, I was like, I don't know that case.
And then the more you told me about it, I was like, oh, wait, I do know that case.
Wait a second. In case you're wondering what case we're talking about, it is the case of the Swedish nanny, Carina Holmer.
It's a very intense case. It's crazy. It's tragic.
It's... unsolved i know unfortunately we hate an unsolved but you just gotta do an unsolved but you know what Our guest tomorrow also hates an unsolved.
That was a good teaser. It is. See, we were trying to come up with a way to tease our guests because we're not going to tell you who it is.
No. We have a very exciting guest for tomorrow.
And what we're going to do today is we're going to go through the Karina Homer case.
We're going to give you all the deets. All the nitty gritty.
We're going to stop short of talking about the suspects and the theories because, again, this is unsolved.
And we're going to save that for tomorrow to discuss with our special guest.
With our honoured guest With our honoured guest You bring your family dishonour Any Mulan reference.
Thank you and good night. First, before we get into this case, we do have to talk about our live shows because we're supposed to.
So don't get mad at me. We sure do. June 2nd, we're going to be at the Goodnight Comedy Club in Raleigh, North Carolina.
I'm betting we won't be there June 2nd, but you know what?
I'm hoping we will. Way to be negative, but you're probably right.
I'm just being realistic. COVID is scary.
COVID is scary. We'll listen as it comes.
We're going with it. Yep, June 3rd, the next day, probably won't be there, but let's say it for shits and giggles, the Comedy Zone in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Charlotte. Either way, Raleigh and Charlotte, we're going to see you at some point.
Exactly. Then, at Talia Hall in Chicago, we'll be there on October 11th for two shows.
Oh, we will so be there on October 11th for two shows.
Be there or be square. It's gonna be spooky and delicious.
Then July 8th, we're going to be at the Comedy Works South in Greenwood Village, Colorado.
I hope we end up there. I feel like July.
I feel like July feels good to me. It does.
It feels safer. It feels warm. It feels less infectious.
It has a good feeling about it. July 8th, the Wilba Theater in Boston.
The Wilba. Come on. Let's make it happen.
If we finally booked the motherfucking Wilbur and then now we can't go.
She's going to be upset. She's already got to miss her birthday.
And by she, I mean me. I'll be displeased.
And guys, make sure buy tickets to the Wilbur show because regardless of whether it happens at that time or later.
Your ticket will transfer. So get tickets to the show so you can be there.
Yes. And then fucking why can't I look at the number eight and just say August without thinking? i wish i had that ability august 11th we will be in philadelphia at the punchline comedy club and we're gonna ring the liberty bell Inside of the Punchline Comedy Club.
Yes. September 16th, we will be at Washington, D.C., We will be at Washington, D.C.
We will be at the Washington, D.C. At the D.C.
Improv. I should have said in the D.C. Improv.
In the D.C. Yes. And, you know, monuments.
She loves a good monument. We're so excited for monuments.
Somebody asked during one of our Instagram lives what monument Alina was excited to see, and she was like, all of them.
All of them. Especially the Lincoln Memorial.
Yeah. I have nothing to back that up. I just want to see it.
I said it's big, but all monuments are pretty fucking big.
What an idiot. Most of them are big. What a fucking idiot.
I feel like the Lincoln Memorial is like very, it's got an intensity to it.
It does. Because Lincoln did, you know? Because Lincoln, you know?
Well, anyways, September 23rd will be in Nashville, Tennessee for an early and a late show at Zany's.
Oh, my goodness, Nashville, we are coming for you.
And is that where we get the white buffalo sauce?
That is where we get the white buffalo sauce.
Excuse me. Is it buffalo sauce or barbecue?
Barbecue. That's what it is. Sorry. Excuse me.
Okay, and also I'm going to have to eat some chicken and waffles while I'm there because hunty.
A bitch loves chicken and waffles. We got to do it.
No, I'm going to serve that at my wedding.
Not that I'm engaged. And then September 24th, Huntsville, Alabama.
Stand up. live and those are our live shows that commences my spiel Yay!
So make sure you're getting tickets to all those shows because they will be moved around if they need to be for COVID-19 stupidity.
But... You know, you can come. So get tickets.
It is what it is. We want to see your faces.
It might be at the end of the year, but we want to see you.
Either way, it's going to happen, you know.
It is. It's going to happen. It's inevitable, guys.
So let's do this. let's get it okay well without further ado let's talk about your case Yeah, because this is going to be, this might be a long one, but since I'm going to stop short of the suspects, it might not be like as crazy long.
Should I go sit on one more pillow because I'm only sitting on one right now?
I think you'll be good. So Karina Holmer was a 19-year-old woman from Sweden in 1996.
Correct. She was known as a great kid. She was a very free spirit, a very motivated person.
She had a love for animals and she also had a case of wanderlust.
Did you hear that noise? Yeah, I don't know if you can hear that.
It's my... neighbor i was just about to say something mean but i don't know if my neighbors listen to this podcast they probably don't but i don't want to get well now you just said you were going to say something mean about them anyway so My neighbor got a motorcycle and it's neat.
How sweet. Yay. So, yeah. So, Karina Homer loved animals.
She had a massive case of wanderlust. She wanted to travel the world.
She wanted to see what she could see. I mean, neighbors and family said she was very tenacious.
She was the kind of kid who you just knew was going to hustle really hard to get where she wanted to go.
We love to see it. She was dreaming big dreams.
You gotta. You gotta. So she was actually part of Sweden's kind of their equivalent to like the Boy or Girl Scouts.
But their version over in Sweden is co-ed, unlike the United States, which for some reason still segregates our scouts.
Boys are just as good as girls. It's true.
She excelled whenever she put her mind towards something, especially in the scouts.
Her father said she could literally he said she could have the world in the palm of her hand if she wanted it.
That's really sweet. I hope my dad says that about me if I ever die before him. oh god that was morbid it was but just keep it on brand you know yeah you're just riding that wave She was always described as an excellent student.
She loved artistic endeavors as well. It's kind of rare to have both sides of the brain like that, but she had it.
Oh, is it so rare, Alina? It's rare. You have that too.
And I'm rare. Okay. I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding.
But yeah, she was one of those just rare gems that was... She was smart.
She was spunky. She was... she could get down and dirty in the scouts she was tenacious she had dreams she could She was literally just... She seems like she was just this well-rounded human being that you were just like... wanted to hang out with so now let's disappoint the shit out of us huh yeah now we're really gonna take you down So she won $1,500 on a lottery ticket in Sweden.
I don't exactly know how it works. It's like...
I'm not sure what kind of lottery that is or anything like that.
If it's a scratch ticket, a lottery ticket, I don't know exactly. everything you look up kind of is kind of vague about it okay and with this case because it's unsolved there's a lot of questions about it there's There's a lot of information but it's like the same information over and over again.
You can do a lot of digging and find some little bits and pieces but some pieces just have yet to come together.
Okay. So she won $1,500 on this lottery ticket.
She was like, this is it. This is my time.
She was done with school and she was considering going to college.
But she was like, you know what? Before I do that, I want to see the world as much as I can.
And then I'll settle down into my studies.
Hell yeah. So she used that money to travel to the United States.
This was in March of 1996. So Ash was not even in the world yet.
You know, I always am like, well, I wasn't even born yet.
So I decided not to say it this time, but you got me.
You were close to being borns. Three months away.
Yeah. March 1996, she settles into Boston.
She wanted to go there for its nightlife. and its opportunities to work as an au pair okay So it's common for those looking to become an au pair to go through an agency and secure themselves The proper documents to come over and work right, you know, they these agencies will get them a visa They'll train them for the job uh they'll also look into the potential employer's background uh this ensures safety and quality on both sides of the job because they're also going to look into the potential au pairs background.
They're really going to make sure that everything's on the up and up.
Karina didn't go through an agency for this.
Oh, she didn't. Which is odd. Yeah. Huh.
So she came to the United States with no visa and a fake ID.
Okay. She used an illegal agency. that skips a lot of the important steps of obtaining a job here, and this agency was run by Tej Sundin.
And he was a Swedish guy who ran an unlicensed agency that he was fined for several times in Sweden.
He just never decided to make it legit. He was like, you know, I think it's fine.
I think he was just running like a, it was like a scam.
Like he was just shooting these girls through this agency just to get them over there.
And then he's like, well... I got their money.
He ended up shutting, actually shutting the agency down after Karina's murder, which nice that it took a murder.
You know, bad press and all. Yeah, like real cool.
He claimed that he had sent six other Swedish au pairs to work for the family that she ended up working for.
But that's just what he says. That's never been confirmed.
And the family has never said anything like that.
Well, no, and we're going to get to them because there was also... This family also has... a few other au pairs that knew the family, especially the father, and don't have great things to say. about his tendency to be a little too touchy-feely.
You know? So through this illegal agency she was placed with photographer Frank Rapp and his artist slash painter wife Susan Nipter.
What a duo. Right? I know, they're fancy.
So she was going to be their au pair. They were very wealthy.
They lived in Dover. In a huge home. Oh, honey.
Exactly. They had two children that she was going to care for.
And Dover, in case nobody knows, is wealthy as fuck.
Dover is out here big pimping. It is. In 2015, it was the fourth richest town in the country in the United States.
And in 2019, it was number two in Massachusetts as the wealthiest.
You know, I don't even think I've ever been to Dover.
It's absurd. It'll just take you down. My kind doesn't belong.
So she worked in their home during the week.
She did the cooking, you know, cleaning, caring for kids, just things an au pair does.
She was apparently great at it, according to Frank and Susan.
They don't really talk about her that much anymore.
So it's very rare to get any kind of info out of them.
Yeah. But they did say that their children loved her.
Okay. She was great with the kids, which is really all that matters in an au pair.
I was just going to say. On the weekends.
They gave her run of Frank's photography studio on A Street in South Boston.
So it was a studio apartment that Frank had in South Boston.
He had this studio apartment as his photography studio.
And he was allowing Karina to live there on the weekends, kind of, for free.
Just to get like a break. Yeah, which, like, okay.
I'm going to withhold what I have to say for now, and I think we'll discuss it tomorrow.
Can I just ask a question? Do you feel as though he might have been there on the weekends?
Yeah, I just feel like that's... It's kind of a weird arrangement, but again, I'm not going to, I mean, I wasn't there.
I don't know. Wasn't necessarily a weekend off.
Maybe he handed her the keys and she got to live there and that was that.
Or, you know, we don't know. Okay, but basically that was her place to stay and to like use as her like everybody would meet there on the weekends before going out to the park. clubs.
Love it. She was a pretty big party around the weekends, which I mean.
She's 20 years old at this point. I was going to say, I can't say shit about this.
My party phase just ended. Yeah, and this has nothing to do with, like, she was a partier, you know what I mean?
Like, no, it's just she liked to go out to the clubs.
That's what... And honestly, it was like...
There was a big group of Swedish au pairs, European au pairs, that hung out together.
They all knew each other. they because they would cling to each other for support you know i mean like you're in a totally different country and they would all meet up and go out to the clubs like this was just a different thing they're in a different country, you're going to experience the nightlife.
Boston's a big city. So she loved going to the bars and the clubs in Boston.
And, um, She held a job during the week.
She was allowed to let loose on the weekends.
She did her shit during the week. At some point during this whole, so at some point during the only four months that she was in the States before she was murdered, she was only here for four months.
During these four months, she did briefly date a Boston police officer.
Oh, I don't think I've heard that before.
Yeah. There's not a lot known about him.
He was cleared very quickly without any muss or fuss of anything. uh but weird who knows so in that so in the time that she was here she um like I said, had become acquainted with other nannies and au pairs who were working over from Sweden.
They all stuck together. They all supported each other.
So these were the people that were with her the night that she disappeared.
Okay. She wrote to her friends and family all the time while she was living here.
And she updated them on her work and her experiences hanging out, saying she made, you know, she had friends and all this good stuff.
In the beginning, it was casual. like pretty optimistic, her letters to her friends and family over in Sweden.
But soon it started turning into like complaints a little bit.
Okay. Mostly that she was just stressed.
She didn't like the amount of cleaning involved in the job she specifically stated.
She was like, I did not know I was going to have to clean this much.
I'm sure it was a fucking massive house.
So I'm sure that was like... And she's not a maid.
She's an au pair. No, she's an au pair. So I'm sure she's like, you know, I'm doing a lot of cleaning.
She's like, didn't know that that wasn't listed in the job description.
She was basically saying she was ready at this point.
Like only four months in, she was kind of ready to move on already and was looking for something more than what she had in Boston right now.
Okay. So then in May, she had written to her friend on Rika Svensson.
And this is what she wrote. Something terrible has happened.
I'll reveal more when I get home. Yikes.
She basically told her friend, I'mma elaborate on it when I get back to Sweden.
But she never got back to Sweden to tell her what it was.
Oh, that's really fucking haunting. I knew that already, but like, ugh.
Yeah. It's just hanging in the air that, like, something terrible happened.
Tell you later. And now we'll never know.
And that's it. No one's ever going to know except for her and whoever was involved in this terrible thing.
So her parents and some friends said they hadn't heard anything about this terrible thing happening.
Like her parents were like, she never said anything to us.
Well, maybe she was like embarrassed and never planned on telling them what it was.
And who knows what it was. So it's like, but she didn't.
She did tell them that she intended to cut her trip to the States short. and come back earlier okay than she had originally planned so it seems to me something happened yeah They all assumed she was just tired of the au pair gig and were like, oh, she just wants to come back and do something else.
But it sounds like it's adding up to something bad happened and she was like, I want to get the fuck up out of here.
Yeah. So later, Frank and Susan, her employers, really only release statements through lawyers like they don't speak about her.
Their lawyer, Martin Weinberg, he said of these letters, quote, I don't know whether the letters represent her overall feelings, but if those were her feelings, she was able to not have them interfere with the relationship with Frank and Susan's children, which is the cornerstone of any au pair relationship.
So that's saying something good about her.
Yeah, it's saying like if you know if that is how she's feeling that something terrible happened.
She wanted to come home she didn't want to do this anymore.
It wasn't affecting how she was taking care of the kids. so that's good on her right especially at 20 to like put your game face on to have that like emotional maturity to be able to just be like I gotta do my job Yeah.
And she must have really loved the kids too, I'm sure.
Like, au pairs tend to become very close to the kids because they're with them so much.
Right. So June 21st was the evening that she disappeared from and was not seen again until she was found murdered june 21st june 21st She was out at Zanza bars celebrating because it was during the summer solstice.
Now to us, we're like, cool, somersaults is fun.
Right. It's a huge holiday celebration in Sweden.
Oh, OK. I was like, is that a big deal here?
Because I wasn't aware. Because, you know, here we're just like, cool, a long day.
Right. It's the longest day of the year.
So in Sweden, it's a huge celebration of that.
That's fun. It's often referred to as Midsommar.
They dance around maypoles. They put greenery on buildings and such.
There's a tradition also that says if a girl picks seven different flowers in silence, on Midsummer Night and puts them under her pillow, she will dream of her future husband.
That's kind of cool. And a bitch is here to say that a bitch would do it.
I know you would. I think it's just fun and whimsy.
I love it. It is. I love a good whimsy. Exactly.
You got to love some whimsy. in your life.
And Carina was out with her friends, her au pair friends from Sweden.
They're all celebrating this summer solstice.
It's like a big deal. It's a time to celebrate.
So this was a Friday night. The bars in Boston are always hopping on a Friday night, especially a night in summer.
We all know this. In 1988, Boston Magazine described Zanzibars, which is not open anymore.
It's on Boylston Street across from Boston Commons and Boston Magazine described it as, quote, this new dance club is a Banana Republic fantasy.
Complete with palm fronds, wicker settees, and waitresses in khaki hot pants.
The music is numbingly dumb disco for white people who can't keep time.
In other words, goofy suburban fun. Okay.
Khaki hot pants? Sounds fucking awesome.
Do those two words even go together? Khaki and hot?
You know where they come together? At Zanzibar.
Do you know what it is now? What is it?
I don't know what it is. I feel like I was actually asking.
I feel like I heard that it was Club Cafe, but I could be wrong.
That's a gay bar and it is lots of fun. Oh, maybe. maybe actually i'll have to look that up and tell you for sure on the next episode um Karina was loving Zanzibars.
They had gone a few times before this one.
The people who went there said that they knew the Swedish Nanny group. yeah like they came they're probably gorgeous and have accents and they're all beautiful yeah it's like so they all wear their khaki hot pants together No way, this night she was wearing a dark t-shirt with a sparkly silver sweater on top and tight, shiny silver pants.
And that's why this story resonates to me, because a bitch loves some fancy pants.
And that's why, too, these what we'll see is we have a lot of eyewitness testimony, a lot of people saying, I saw her in this place.
I saw her in that place. That's why these I think that's why these witnesses are taken a little more seriously, because as we know, eyewitness testimony can be.
Unruly. Shite. Actual shite. Yeah. It can be real like unclear.
So but I think the fact that she was wearing such like a bright, shiny outfit with shiny silver pants, I think helps a little bit because you remember that.
So shiny. Good to know that if I ever went missing on the night of our show, I would easily be identified.
Yeah, you would. They'd be like, her pants.
You hear that murderer? She stood out. So she went there with three friends.
I found a couple of things that say like she went with three friends.
She went with a bigger group. Most of the things I saw said three.
Okay. She got shwasted. Don't we all? It's Friday night.
It's your fucking, you have the next day off.
Let's get it, sis. Blackout. And you know what?
And again, I'm not pointing this out to like shame her in any way.
It's just facts. Or put any kind of connotation that like what happened is in any way her fault or something like that.
I just want to put that out there. Right.
I'm just saying she was definitely intoxicated.
By multiple accounts, she was... like real real down in the yeah so a bartender said he was actually serving her water by the end without her knowledge because she was just too drunk and he was like I'm just gonna keep giving you water we have all been there or cranberry juice And another bartender suggested oh that's so much sugar.
But if you just hand somebody cranberry juice they think that it's a drink.
Oh, that would fuck them up. It's a tactic.
Sugar will make it worse. So that and then another bartender actually suggested to that bartender, they were like, you need to stop serving. her like right yeah and that bartender was like yeah she's getting water don't worry about it but like that's how bad it got that the bartenders were like yo you need to take care of that right right right um At some point, she passed out in the ladies room.
Oh, no. said they were told to find a ride for a girl who was passed out on one of the high bar tables.
And when he took a second to finish something and came back, she was gone.
He said this was Karina. He had sent her.
So she was passing out everywhere. She was in rough shape.
But you know what? Where were her friends?
I mean, that's what I'm saying. I don't leave your drunk friends passed out anywhere.
Don't leave your drunk friends, man. She left the club or was escorted out.
There's two different stories that I think they were getting ready to escort her out and she left on her own.
Okay. It was somewhere around 3 a.m. So there was differing reports.
Well, was everything closed at this point?
Yeah, everything's pretty much closed at this point.
But again, this was this was 96. Right. One report says a male friend of hers, who she went to the club with, saw her in a gray Mitsubishi outside the club.
Okay. And that he was like, what the fuck?
And he saw two men in the car with her. And he was like, hey, like...
No, no, no. He did an interview and he was like, hey, you come with us.
Like, you come back with us. Right. And that one of the guys in the car said, quote, get away from the car, you little shit or I'll crush your fucking head.
That's a lot. It seems like a disproportionate response.
Sure does. Sure does. Like go off, I guess.
My friend's in there, so I'll crush your head, but... Yeah, not a good thing.
So other reports from bouncers say she tried to get back in at least once. and then she realized her friends were not outside yet but they wouldn't let her back in because they won't do that they're not gonna let you back in especially when you're really intoxicated Which I have a problem with.
They should at least go back in and get your fucking friend for you.
But yeah, I think they should go in and get your friend for you.
I understand not being let back in. Yeah, I was going to say because letting back in is a huge liability.
I 100% get that, but you should not be outside by yourself as a male or a female at 3 a.m.
No. I mean, that's a fault on everybody in that situation.
It's certainly not the bouncer's fault or responsibility to take care of your ass, but...
It would be nice if they would go in and get your friend if you're out there.
I mean, if I was a bouncer, I would. yeah I mean sure you're just a nice person though thank you other reports Or excuse me, in an article about the case, one au pair said foreign pairs knew each other and they went out together. but they said they would they would arrive in a pack together but once they got there it was like every man or woman for themselves like okay see ya and that was it Right.
So they had like an understanding. They're going to find somebody to leave with or to hang out with or to get drunk with.
And that's it. Like they're not really focused on what the other ones are doing.
That's at least what one article said. Okay.
So she decided again in a highly intoxicated state to wander around trying to get home.
Okay. This is when witnesses come into play.
And again, it's all got to be taken with a little grain of salt because... eyewitness testimony is real tough, as we know.
Some witnesses saw her dancing. Now, this is something that a lot of them say, so I do take this one as...
I know exactly what you're going to say.
Some witnesses say they saw her dancing with a homeless man in an alley. she was um so she and she was like dancing singing they were having a great time like she was having her own little party in the alley have you ever walked home drunk through the streets of boston Yes.
You'll end up singing with a homeless man.
Yeah, I mean, sure. There's one specific homeless man that sings a song about your outfit these days.
I love that I love him so much They also saw her walking down Tremont Street and some people said they saw her getting into a gray car with as many as four guys in it. like that original report about the gray Mitsubishi that her male friend said he saw her in.
So it is interesting that a gray car gets brought into this a few times because it is always interesting when there's one common thread that keeps... even if it changes slightly that it's in there right um witnesses said they heard them that the ones that saw the men in the car said that they saw these guys trying to get her to come to an after party with them.
Okay. But again, they also saw her on Tremont Street.
They saw her dancing with a homeless man.
Like, she was everywhere. Right. It should be noted that at this time of night when the bars are closing and everyone is pouring onto the streets.
Mm-hmm. It's fucking mayhem. Oh, yeah. It's hell.
It's hell. Driving through there when the bar is let out is a fucking nightmare that everyone... from Boston has endured at one point or another.
There's drunk people slamming on cars. Yup.
They're walking in front of cars. They're trying to get taxis and Ubers.
They're fighting. It's insane. It's my favorite.
That used to be my favorite. Oh, it's it's sure.
It's your favorite when you're part of it.
Yeah. When you're trying to drive through it.
I've never been. Nobody will tell you that's their favorite.
If you're trying to drive through that mayhem, it is horrific.
So bars close around 2 a.m. though, so around 3 a.m. it wouldn't have been quite as chaotic.
It would have probably just been like...
So leftover drunk people. Right. She was alive at 3 a.m.
Witnesses saw her and she was speaking to at 3 a.m.
Witnesses said they saw her speaking to a man named Herb Witten.
He was known around as the guy who wore a Superman shirt and had the same shirt for his dog.
And that night he was wearing the Superman shirt.
His dog was also there. His dog is a large white Pyrenees.
They wore matching shirts because he said he thought it would help him pick up ladies.
Okay. I mean, interesting approach. It's a good conversation starter.
I don't know if I'm going to go home with you because of it, but...
Well, the weird thing is, too, that he lived in Andover.
So he lived over half an hour north of Boston.
Right. So he would say he would come down when the bars were closing with his dog so he could start like trying to pick up drunk girls.
And it's like, OK, so wait at 2 a.m. or 3 a.m.
You're driving over 30 minutes. With your dog to walk down the street and try to pick up ladies.
You know what? I'm here to say it. I'm here to state it for the record.
That's a little skeevy. It is. And by a little, I mean a lot.
Yeah. And again... he's going to become a suspect later.
So we're going to talk to about him tomorrow, but in further detail, but like, just we'll, we'll set that scene for you.
Okay. Um, So witnesses said she left an alley with a big construction worker type in his 40s with wavy hair and a small dog.
That was another thing they saw. So people are seeing her with two separate people with dogs.
It's like, this gets weird. And the dog that the, excuse me, the Superman guy had, that was a big dog, right?
That was a large dog, apparently. So you can't get the two swapped.
Okay. So witnesses also told police that Karina was seen in front of a store 24 at Mass Ave in Haviland Street between 3.30 and 4 a.m. on Saturday, June 22nd.
Okay. So now we're up to between 3.30 and 4.
Well, now she's like traveling like pretty quick.
Exactly. That'd be a lot to walk. Now after her 3.30 to 4 a.m. sighting on Saturday, June 22nd, she's missing.
Right. No one has any whereabouts of her.
It was 30 hours from when she was last seen to when she was found on Sunday morning.
Oh, man. frank and susan the couple she was working for had no idea initially that she was missing because it was the weekend she wasn't due to report to their home for work until monday And they aren't keeping tabs on her on the weekends, supposedly.
So like, why would they care? Right. June 23rd, which was Sunday.
In the morning, a homeless man was digging in a dumpster behind 1091 Boylston Street.
He was, you know, looking for cans and bottles and like scraps, anything he was looking for. he went to pull out a big black trash bag and noticed it was super heavy okay And he was about to toss it away, but then he was like, what the fuck is in here?
Because he said it weighed over 40 pounds.
And he was like, this is a huge thing. What is this?
So of course he's curious. He's like, what the fuck is this?
Maybe it's a treasure. So he opens the bag. and immediately sees a human arm.
I can't even imagine how terrifying that must be.
This human arm had nail polish on the fingernails.
It was a clear human arm. He went hauling ass down Boylston Street for help, like screaming.
Eventually got the police on the scene and Detective Tommy O'Leary was first on the case.
Okay. Which... It is not a Boston crime tale unless there's a detective named Tommy O'Leary.
Tommy O'Leary is a hometown hero. That's the most Boston.
Wicked. Wicked. Wicked. It's wicked Boston.
What they discovered when they opened that bag. was a true fucking nightmare.
They found a body. Well, half a body. Specifically, they found the top half of a woman's body.
It had been completely washed and cleaned of makeup, blood, everything.
And it had been cleaned down. That is the most terrifying thing. i can't fathom and and there was no blood like there was no blood around so this was clearly like a second crime scene like they had brought her here they and killed her there the thought of somebody like taking off somebody's makeup and like cleaning them afterwards It freaks me the fuck out.
That is such another level of pathology with this killer.
And it's also I don't know. It just feels a little personal.
It does feel very personal. I mean, it does make sense that like you don't want your DNA so I could see how it's not personal, but it also feels very personal.
Yeah, it really does. And so specifically, it had been sawed just above the hip bone, below the ribs. with what the medical examiner would later confirm was likely an electric power tool, not a handsaw.
Yeah. They thought it was probably a circular saw.
The cut was neat and clean except for one piece of the hip bone that was nicked. okay but other than that it was a very clean cut A couple of the sources I read said that she may have been alive up to 24 hours after last seen at the 3-4 a.m. hour. which would put her death at what could be as late as 3am Sunday.
So there's a long period of time where she could have been alive.
Right, right. There was evidence on her neck that she had been strangled and that seemed like that was the cause of death.
When the news reported the body, Frank and Susan called the police to say the body might be their au pairs.
Now, there was a description of Karina on the news but no photo, obviously, because she was unidentified at that point and just a torso.
So why did Frank and Susan just all of a sudden be like, that must be Karina?
Like, oh, a blonde girl in a dumpster? That is weird.
Maybe she normally did communicate with them over the weekend and then...
Because she didn't, they thought it was a little bit weird.
Yeah. I mean, they never came out and said that.
Yeah. But... but it's a possibility uh there's other reports that frank called the morgue on sunday when the reports were released to check to see if it was karina in either way it's strange to me or maybe he had gone over there on the weekend like maybe he normally did and she wasn't there and that's why they called There's a whole mess of weirdness here.
Ash is always thinking. Well, and so because of their connection to her and that they were essentially acting as family and employer to her, They were, of course, the first to be questioned.
Immediately, they became uncooperative and got a lawyer.
Oh, okay. Immediately. Now, the lawyer thing to me, that's just smart because like shit can get shady fast.
Yeah. So I can't fault them for wanting to get a lawyer.
But being uncooperative is pretty bad in this case.
Yeah. You brought this girl from Sweden into your home, trusted her to raise your children, let her stay in your downtown loft for free.
Like, when she's chopped in half and left in a dumpster, you should maybe cooperate with the police.
Why do you think they were being uncooperative? don't know I honestly don't know I don't think it's a good idea either way I mean if they're guilty that's a really bad idea Yeah.
And if they're innocent, it's a really bad idea.
It's like just if you're guilty, at least fake it.
Do you think that they were perhaps uncooperative because...
Not because they're guilty of murdering her, but because they, or at least one of them, is guilty of the something terrible that happened and they didn't want that to be leaked out.
That's definitely, I think something terrible happened could possibly have to do with...
My gut is telling me something to do with Frank, but I obviously have no basis for that except for my own speculation.
Right. Right. It could also be that they hired her through illegal means.
So maybe they're trying to keep their head above water there.
Yep. I was going to ask that. I don't really know.
But then what's weird is on Monday, the day after her body's discovery.
Suddenly there's a strange fire in Dover in a dumpster right behind Frank and Susan's house.
That is a little weird. Yeah, so the authorities are called, and after putting it out...
They try to determine if there's like any kind of evidence that could lead to Karina.
Because at this point, they're already like, excuse me.
Nothing in the dumpster led to her, but there's nothing that says how burned everything was or if they could tell with 100% certainty.
That there was nothing that belonged to Karina.
They didn't find remains, like human remains.
Right, because that's detectable. It's not like you could tell if maybe her belongings were torched.
Maybe something was. So again, we're going to go further into our thoughts on that in the next episode.
But they then talk to the last person that she was seen with, which was the homeless man who she was seen dancing and singing with.
Okay. This was after she got kicked out of the bar.
His name was Juan Polo, and he was probably interviewed, I'm assuming, as like a formality.
Because he clearly didn't have the means or location to perform a bisection, clean the blood and body and then dispose of it.
In two different locations, it seems like.
They probably just want to see if she went off with somebody after dancing with him or blah, blah, blah.
And obviously she's one of the last people to see her.
They have to go talk to him. They got to get that information.
But I'm assuming they weren't really looking at him as the guy who did it.
Yeah. He later in interviews said that he tried to tell her to find her friends and not be alone that night.
Aww. And he said, quote, she was so sweet, such a nice person, an angel.
Oh, that makes my heart hurt. Doesn't that just like, oh, because it sounds like she was.
She was like dancing with him, having a good time. um so what's weird to me too with this next suspect so the next suspects i'm sure sure everybody's wondering What happened to the guy with the Superman shirt?
Superman. Yeah, Superman. What's that? What happened to Herb?
So he was actually stopped that night by the police on the way home.
Right. He got a speeding ticket. He was on his way home to Andover.
Why you speeding at 3 a.m., boy? Yeah, and it's pretty strange, again, to drive to Boston.
Like, over a half hour away, just without construction, which is never the case.
There's always construction on the way to Boston.
Just to walk your dog at 3am to pick up girls.
Like, that's a little weird. It's bizarre.
Either way, he got a speeding ticket, which is pointed to as his alibi.
Which cannot necessarily be an alibi. Because what if she's in the trunk?
And how many times have we heard that happen?
Exactly. And it's like... So you're not going to search the car for a speeding ticket.
And I don't think I didn't see anything about them searching his car.
I never read anything about him searching his car.
Right. And honestly, what reason would they have?
Yeah. And If she was alive up to 24 hours after she was last seen, she was alive at this point.
Right. She could have been in the trunk.
So it's very easy because they look at it as, okay...
He got a speeding ticket at this time So there's no way that he could have killed her and done this before he left and it's like okay.
Oh Well, the dude comes into Boston at 3 a.m. every fucking weekend just to pick up chicks with his dog.
So what is it? Why is it weird? To assume that he would bring her home, do what he has to do and then drive back to dump her.
Right. He does it all the time. This is not a strange trip for him.
It's... I mean, she could have been gagged in the trunk.
She could have been incapacitated, not able to scream.
They would have never known she was there.
And she could have been passed out in the trunk.
Who knows? because she was so inebriated she could have passed out exactly that's the thing so it's like you're totally right because she's already passed out twice exactly There's a lot of things that could have been happening here.
So this man, Herb, actually... This is where it gets very weird.
He was cleared after this alibi, all that.
About six months, between six months and less than a year later, he completed suicide.
Right. On web sleuths, someone claiming to have lived next door to him at the time?
They had a lot of information about it. They said he saw the ME and police show up to the suicide scene.
And when he asked the officer like what was going on because it was his neighbor the officer said it wasn't likely a suicide because it was very violent and the scene oh but then there was no mention of this anywhere in news reports later So I'm like, a cover up perhaps?
Because everything I read said that he slit his own throat.
Okay. But it's like, is there a cover-up going on of some sort?
That's not that violent of a crime to clean up, I would think.
It's very odd. It just sounds... All of this is very strange.
And so they have... So... So I know I said I wasn't going to go into the suspects, but I think we're just not going to discuss the theories in depth, really. yeah yeah um but i want to like put them out there so you can all like kind of munch on them think about them for a minute So this is when they start kind of grasping at straws a bit because leads are not panning out.
Right. They're looking at, I mean, so far the employers are acting strange.
They're uncooperative. But there's not much else to go on. but they don't have anything on them and it's like so what can they do we're looking at herb well now he completed suicide and also they had cleared him already after his speeding ticket out So this one confuses me.
So they started looking at a suspect who lived close by to where Karina was found.
This new suspect was a guy by the name of John...
I don't know how to say his name. Zoe's?
How is it spelled? Z-E-W-I-Z-Z. zeus zeus it sounds good well his real name is john mcsweeney but that's not metal and that's what he was going for For real?
He was a member of a band called Sleep Chamber.
Sleep Chamber, by my research, is labeled as an industrial techno tribal band.
Aren't we all? Doesn't this remind... This immediately reminded me of the Parks and Rec... uh episode where leslie goes to that radio station and the guy is like now for the lesbian afro-norwegian duo nefertiti's fjord That's exactly what that's like.
I forgot about that episode. That's literally, I immediately thought of it.
That's exactly, that's it. Nefertiti's Fjord.
Oh, that's great. But it's real, so that's fun.
Like, this is a real band. Can you say what they describe themselves as again, just one more time?
They describe themselves, or they are described as techno... industrial techno tribal okay I like it I'm here for it and the themes of their music as well as John's personal image and persona are centered around things like S&M and bondage.
He loved dabbling in magic and learning about the occult.
He was just like, by all means, kind of like a strange dude by Normie's accounts, you know?
Okay. So that's a vibe. This band even had fetish stage dancers that they would bring on tour called the barbiturates.
That's what they called the dancers. The barbiturates.
I just got, I fell into like a hole reading about this guy.
I was like, what the fuck? I feel like who wouldn't?
It's amazing. Honestly, nothing is really bad here so far.
It's just strange to normal society, I suppose.
For a norm norm. But in normal society, S&M and bondage are consensual when done correctly.
And magic and the occult are not signs of a... like murderer you know like this is just i think his proximity to the dump site He had a known heroin addiction for years.
He had a couple of run-ins with the law.
Nothing violent, it seems, from what I looked.
And his taste for the strange and unusual definitely marked him as a person of interest.
But you kind of feel bad because like he kind of just got sucked into it.
And he was obviously struggling. Yeah, he was struggling.
They never actually charged him or labeled him as like an actual suspect.
It was just that they brought him in for questioning.
And then he kind of got labeled like he kind of the stigma.
Oh, that sucks. Yeah. And people even pointed to a lyric in a song he released after Karina's murder.
And it had a line about hanging at Zanda bars, but like it was Boston in the 90s and he lived near Zanda.
I was going to say he lived right there.
So it's like, of course. He was cleared.
He was never arrested for it or anything.
But people obviously still talk about if he could be part of it.
Because he's made like strange interviews and stuff where I think he's just like a strange guy.
So he just talks about weird shit and people are like, hmm.
I mean, whatever. You know. So going back to the fact that she did briefly date a Boston cop and that...
It seems like there's just no leads or no evidence of anything.
They can't find anything. They can't find the crime scene.
They can't find her bottom half. They can't.
They had no DNA, nothing. Boston PD in the 90s was corrupt as fuck.
You don't say. Yeah, it was just not... By their own...
These are their own quotes about their department in the 90s.
One quote says the hallmark values of the operating culture are self-interest, resentment, and suspicion.
Love that. We have no defined mission. Everything goes into a black hole.
The only standards around here are double standards.
Awesome. Perfect. They were very much into the we cover each other's back, very much into I want that suspect to be the guy, so I'm going to I'm going to make it so with the evidence kind of thing.
Like it was very not a good situation. It doesn't sound like it.
When they come out and say that, you know, she dated a Boston police officer briefly.
We're not, you know, that's fine. He was cleared.
Everything was fine. And it's like, yeah.
Like, I'm not saying he did it, but like, I'd like to know more about that.
Yeah, like, can you tell me a little more about it?
Because I don't know about that. And so basically now, after all of these people are getting questioned, everything's happening...
That's it. There's nothing. There's nothing after that.
It went cold. And that's it. And now that all there is are, there's just theories about what could have possibly been happening.
Was the terrible thing... And I'm just going to sneak this in here and we'll definitely get further into it tomorrow.
But was this terrible thing that happened, you know, a sexual assault of some sort?
Right, right. Was she possibly pregnant or did she think she was pregnant?
And that's why she was sought in half to remove any evidence of a pregnancy.
Yep. You can remove a uterus by sawing someone in half.
And it's like they were washed clean. She was washed clean and she, you know... that was removing any kind of DNA.
There's a lot of different theories of what could have possibly been happening here.
And like I said, a lot of au pairs that worked for Frank Rapp or knew of him, basically all of them said he's very creepy.
Okay. He acts very creepy. Yeah. to us.
Like, that was the general consensus. We don't love that.
We hate that. Yeah, definitely not. And so eventually Carina was sent home to Sweden.
Her body was sent home so her family could have a proper burial.
And at her funeral, everyone wore brightly colored happy clothing.
Aww. Because they were like, that's just who she was.
She would have wanted that. They didn't want to mourn her loss with dark, sad colors because they said she was just a rainbow in life.
Stop. Yeah, and a really sad kick in the gut is...
Detective Tommy O'Leary, who worked this case, said to the Boston Herald about this, that when he talked to her father, and said you know we're shipping her back to you her father said what am i getting back oh god and he said he was like absolutely stunned he was like fuck i didn't know i was gonna have to answer this right and he said quote you're getting her upper torso you're getting her beautiful face Oh, my heart.
Yeah, that's a lot. It hurts my soul. I know.
And from what I can tell... This wasn't someone that's like, to me, it doesn't seem like some unhinged.
It seems it seems it seems. It seems methodical to you?
It seems very calculated. It seems personal to me.
Who is, I don't want to say in control, but like in control.
It sounds like somebody who they strangled her.
Yeah. They didn't mutilate her. in the sense of, like, they cut her in half, but I think that was for a purpose.
That was to hide something. Why else would you need to remove something?
And strangulation, not to keep being like personal, personal, but strangulation is a very personal way of. murdering somebody it certainly is I mean of course strangers will do it too but like in general it's a very personal thing to do to someone And it doesn't mutilate their face.
It doesn't draw blood, generally. It just seems to me like this is someone... If they really took a power tool... to saw her in half.
And they did it in a very clean way where the only bone they were going to have to cut through is the spine.
Mm-hmm. And, you know, you would think you prepare for that.
Yeah. Or you've done it before. An unhinged person is going to saw someone in half with a fucking handsaw.
It's going to be jagged. It's going to be fucked.
There's going to be blood everywhere. That person's going to be mangled and they're just going to toss them in a dumpster.
It reminds me of the Black Dahlia case. It does.
It's kind of like the Black Dahlia where it's like, but then it differs from the Black Dahlia.
And I think our guest tomorrow will be able to go into this a little further. but it differs from the Black Dahlia because the Black Dahlia was like posed out in the open when there was a message being sent.
But she was put in a trash bag and put in a dumpster in an alleyway in Boylston. to hopefully not get rid of right so it's a it's a weird like dichotomy but it's also kind of rings very familiar to each other right right you know it's weird but to me the pathology of this person is that they are in control Yes.
That they are unhinged in their in some way.
In their psyche. They're in control of the process.
I think you're right. Which to me, I don't know.
I don't know enough about herb. I don't know enough about... there's just not a lot to, there's not a lot to go on here.
Right. That's the thing. What's another weird thing is that Susan Nichter, uh, wife, Frank's wife, she's a painter, like I said before, and Her site is now... Her painter... Her artist site is now down right now.
And it's been down since, like, 2018 or something.
But... There was a lot of talk about the paintings that she would paint because she has a ton of paintings.
And apparently there are a few that certainly look like Karina.
And a few of them have a lot of themes that make it look like...
Half of a body and somebody, you know, running away from a man.
Yeah, that's a lot. Just a very creepy... themes that seem to be like a lot of people look at it and they're like I'm disturbed by that and it kind of looks like you're painting what happened right To me, and again, we'll talk about it tomorrow, but to me, I'm like, I can go either way with that.
Well, because art can be like an escape for some people and like a therapeutic tool.
So I think you could argue that side of it.
Exactly. Because she knew this person. I mean, this girl lived at her house for four months.
I mean... Yeah. And who knows what her relationship with her was.
So it's like... she could be in her mind and she could subconsciously be painting a woman that resembles her because that's just a trauma that she's dealing with still.
Yeah. Like, Or it could be her way of... getting out the trauma of what actually happened, that she knows what happened.
And a lot of people think that could be it.
You can't see her paintings anymore, which bummed me out.
Oh, it sucks. Yeah, but I mean, I'll look and see if anybody has them somewhere.
Underground. Yeah. But so that's basically what we have on Karina right now for the general like overview of the case. okay because again that's all the details i could find anything else was kind of hearsay and i don't want to be putting out like bullshit rumors no we don't um So what we're going to do is we will end here.
And tomorrow with our guest, we're going to go into back over the suspects.
We're going to hear what they have to say.
We're going to talk about the theories and all that good stuff.
I'm into it. I'm excited. Me too. And in the meantime, why don't you guys go ahead and follow us on Instagram?
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Yeah, and not so weird that you chop someone in half.
That's not cool. Not that fucking weird.
That's real weird. That's for sure. Thank you.
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The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic.
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