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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alayna. And this is A Whole Ass Morbid.
Ooh, it's a whole ass morbid, guys. Yeah, this case is morbid as fuck.
This case is long and frustrating as fuck.
So just to remind you, this is part two of the West Memphis three, which is probably going to be like three to four parts. yeah it is most definitely going to be three parts I'm going to try to keep it to three I don't know if people are going to get up my butt about it being four I don't think it's going to be four, but I'm not going to make any promises here because mama doesn't like brevity.
And I think that a lot of the details of this case... are really important to talk about and there's a lot of things that don't get talked about enough and a lot of little things that I uncovered that like I just need to feel like I need to talk about so it's gonna be long.
But you know what? You're here with me. It's important.
It's stressful. We're all in this together.
Last week you said pertinent a lot and I really like that word.
It is. Everything is pertinent that we are going to talk about.
I was trying to say that like. throughout your whole spiel i kept being like is she dead i didn't know what's happening is she going she's just like pecking i just wanted to be like pardon pertinent it's pertinent that i get this information it's all pertinent and before we jump into it we have some more pertinent news we do So, like we do in the beginning of every intro, we're going to remind you about our live shows because that's happy fun time.
And then we're going to take you into the dumps.
That's happy fun time. It is. Wow, okay.
Happy fun time is going to go down at the Punchline Comedy Club in Philadelphia on April 14th. hell yeah it is philly oh my god and we just booked our hotel room and i'm really excited about where we're staying but you can't know I want to see the Liberty Bell.
Yes. I want to see all that. I want to take fancy bathroom selfies.
That's all. Anyways, April 15th at the DC Improv in Washington, DC.
Monuments! I'm so excited for monuments April 23rd the Gramercy theater.
We get to go there again in New York because of the Death Becomes Us Festival.
Guys, come to the Death Becomes Us Festival.
It is going to be so... Awesome. Last year, someone got brought out on stage in a body bag for their entrance.
And then they unzipped her. Do it. Who else does that?
You got to come and do it. We have some good plans for that show as well.
We do. So get with it. May 6th, that Stand Up Live will be there.
And that's in Huntsville, Alabama. It sure is.
Roll Tide, War Eagle. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Real excited for Alabama. Then we're doing two shows on May 7th, an early and a late show at Zany's in Nashville, Tennessee.
Nashville, we can't wait to see you and we love you and our hearts are with you.
Yes. then this is a new one everybody new new new june 2nd at the goodnight comedy club in raleigh north carolina Yeah, Raleigh, we are coming for you.
And then the next day, June 3rd at the Comedy Zone in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Charlotte, we heard ya and we're coming for ya.
We're gonna be all up in ya. North Carolina, we are gonna beat. all up in you what's your good food yeah north carolina tell us what's your good food Last time, I got a lot of messages from Washington-tonians.
Washington-tonians. Yes, and they gave me a lot of... food options honestly you guys have been like champions with the food recommendations we're real excited to try mama one and mama two we love in some food she's super excited anyways june 11th we added this one chicago for you baby Because you wanted us to come again.
You did, Chicago. And we love you so much that we were like, hell yeah.
So we're going a day early. We are. Then we're going to be there the next day, too.
June 12th. Yeah, June is going to be crazy and I'm real excited for it.
Fucking bananas. And last but not least, a show that is very near and dear. to my heart and elena's heart if they exist uh july 11th at the wilba theater in boston the wilba I sound like everybody that tries to do an accent in a Boston movie.
You sound... Just also transferred into Estelle.
You sounded like my dad and then into Estelle.
Your dad, my grandpa raised us both. I got my Boston accent when Papa taught me how to drive.
That's true. Exactly. I said things like, you dickhead. so we're really excited for that Go get your tickets to all those shows.
You can go to morbidpodcast.com. All those tickets are going to be up there waiting for you or go to our link tree. um it's in our bio on instagram but go to morbidpodcast.com and they'll all be there and then you can like read our little information you sure can and like do a little dipperoo so everybody do that because we want to do live shows and see all of you so yay you know what else we want to do part two of the west memphis three we do but first i wanted to mention one very somber thing before we get into this really somber case We're taking the energy way down.
I'm sure everybody has been following the case.
We've been posting a lot about it of Evelyn Boswell.
The little 15 month old that has been missing since the day after Christmas, but wasn't reported missing by her fucking garbage family.
Until about two weeks ago. Shit stains. Which made no sense.
And then her stupid piece of shit quote unquote mother.
I don't even know if she's like, can she even be called a mother?
No, she can't. That's why I put air quotes around it.
I like it. She's just a fucking monster.
She went on and did an interview and was basically Casey Anthony-ing the whole thing and saying she knew where she was.
She knows who has her. She just didn't want to spook them. by reporting her 15 month old missing.
Yeah, you don't want to piss people off.
Yeah. And then, you know, they were draining a lake in North Carolina that was next to it gets really convoluted because there's a lot of like just family up in here.
Yeah. But it's like the grandfather of the grandmother's boyfriend, who was pretty sure that he was capable of killing a 15-month-old, which is...
Not ever something you want to hear from a grandma.
Definitely not. No, that means you're a real shit person if your grandmother is saying that you are capable of murdering a 15 month old. yeah uh unfortunately i know i was holding out like the smallest It was fake hope.
It's hard, but you have to have a little bit of it.
I just can never fully close that door, but But in my heart of hearts, the second this news came out that she was missing, I was like, that poor 15-month-old is gone.
Just because it had been so long. That was the issue.
It's never a good thing. It's never like they just pop up all of a sudden.
Unfortunately, last night, Friday night, They did find remains of a 15 month old girl who they believe to be Evelyn Boswell at a family member of her piece of shit mothers.
So they're going to be doing an autopsy.
I have not heard any results yet. I'm hoping that they'll release stuff soon.
I don't want to hear it but I need to hear it.
All at the same time. Because I've just been following this so hard.
It's like closure, I guess. Yeah, I just need to know.
But at the same time, I'm like, I don't want to think about what they did to that poor...
And this baby is, oh my God, her like huge blue eyes.
I was like, every time I saw it, I was like, I'll take her.
Like, just give her to me. I will take her.
Don't have a kid if you don't want one. And if you do have a kid that you don't want...
There are a lot of places that you can give them to.
Trust me. Trust me. Because someone who went through three years of infertility struggles. and we were coming to the point where we were like okay like adoption it is and we were like ready to do that People want children.
And it's like people will love your children.
And people will do anything. If you are not prepared to adequately take care of your child... that's fine just admit to it and give your child up to someone who will because it's like what the fuck are these people doing Having 15 months... What did a 15-month-old do to you that you killed it?
Exactly. You piece of absolute shit. Like, it makes me so angry.
Like, I can't imagine. I can't even, like, yell at my kids.
They're four. I can't even, like, tell them to clean up.
I'm like, shit, you know what? I'll help you.
You know what? I'll help you. Yeah. It's like, I can't imagine a 15 month old.
No. 15 month olds are in the most fun stage of babyhood.
It's like they're walking. They're doing that crazy little toddle that they do.
They're falling over. They're just starting to like say things like, like cooey, adorable little words.
And all they want is for you to fucking love them.
That's all they require is just love. They just want to please you.
And like. other basic things so it just bums me out so uh we'll update on that as it comes but you know everybody think of poor little evelyn today because i know i am And moving forward from that bummer ass news is some more bummer ass. story so strap in guys but it's not a bummer at the end it isn't there's a half kind of somewhat I don't know there's an ending to this so yeah It won't come today, but we'll go with it.
So for this, I've used so many sources for this because I just can't get enough of reading about it.
Well, this is a fucking involved case. Yeah, and this one's really like near and dear to me because I just got so enveloped in it when it happened.
So I used Damien Echols book that he wrote, Life After Death.
It's a really good read and everyone should read it. wherever you stand on this case, because it's going to give a lot of insight into West Memphis at the time. what he was dealing with at the time, his background, all that crazy stuff.
I also use Devil's Knot by Mara Leverett.
That's an amazing book. Big, long, lots of information.
She's an investigative journalist, so she has just a way of finding things that no one else can.
And she goes into so much detail. I also use the Paradise Lost documentaries because they have a lot of like clips with them, things that you don't hear everywhere else those documentary as well yeah we were just watching part of it again uh but yeah i recommend those highly Shopify's point of sale system helps you sell at every stage of your business.
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Shopify.com slash listen. The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic.
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So when we left off last time, we had just talked about how the police were getting desperate.
They're basically the satanic panic is beginning to seep in and they're starting to look more at Damien Echols.
Right. Just because he's a little outsider.
Yeah, because he's an outsider. So police records for this case were a fucking nightmare.
I believe that. To be clear, the West Memphis PD did not know how to handle a case of this magnitude.
They just didn't. And they were offered help.
They were offered a lot of help, but also at the time, apparently... the state police and the West Memphis PD, as well as the county PD, were involved with some issues with each other because some of the county PD
And the West Memphis PD were getting investigated by the state PD.
Perfect. For like drug offenses. So I don't think they were too keen on letting the state police help them.
So that really fucked them up. Condolented everything.
Exactly. So that tells you where everyone's at here.
Right. It's not like we're at this like... We're in a fucking dumpster fire currently.
We're not like a... a great highly functioning police department here.
No. So actually, in the book Devil's Knot, Mara Leverett says that quote police records were a mess to call them disorderly would be putting it mildly wolf In most of the notes, the wrong child was identified for certain things.
Like they would use the wrong name several times for different things.
And they just couldn't keep any facts straight.
Like there were times when they would say that they were sexually assaulted.
And in fact, they were not. According to the ME, they were not.
So according to her book, Mara Leveritz, the police had also assigned the case number for this case. as 93-05-0666.
Okay. Now, when asked about this number, because they were like, 666, that's funny.
Right. That it's involving like. What a coinkydink.
Supposed satanic activity and 666 is in it.
Well, Gitchell, Gary Gitchell, everybody remember his name.
He's going to come up a lot. Gary Douchard.
Good old Gary Gitchell. He said, it's just a coincidence.
Happened to be that we're on the 666 case.
Doubt it. Like, cool. Later, however, it was discovered that the case should have been numbered 93. dash zero five dash zero five five five oh so they doctored that to make sure that it said six six six to further put forth this narrative of satanic activity.
You have a little too much time on your hands if those are the details that you're paying attention to, Gary Gitchell.
Those are some stupid-ass... ass details they really are that's like something i would expect the media to like exactly well and that's the thing the media clings on to that shit But I would expect them to make that up, not be, like, fed it.
Yeah, exactly. But they were fed it by the police.
Ridiculous. Woo. So Damien was given a polygraph during one of the questioning sessions that they like sprung upon him.
And it was noted that he revealed deception when speaking about the murders.
Now, weirdly enough, though, there's no record of this deception.
So the guy who did the polygraph just says this.
It says he doesn't know where the record is.
Oh, so just trust him guys. Okay. Yeah. I mean, he's telling the truth.
Trust him. He was deceptive. Don't worry about it.
I don't know where it says. Look, there's something shiny over there.
Look at that. Um, Yeah. So this seems to happen a lot that all of a sudden they're like, yeah, he said this and you're like oh cool can you give me that file that you should have because you're a police officer and in your training you learn that you write everything down and keep a very detailed record and double check it every time time yeah can you give me that no like oh no we didn't like write it down or have any record of it or they'll be like yeah totally Oh, no.
You know what? It's weird. My dog ate it.
Yeah, it's real weird. It's just not here.
And it's like weird. Maybe it doesn't exist.
I don't know. So that happens a lot. In Damien's book, Life After Death, he describes the atmosphere around West Memphis at this time, and it is pretty bleak. oh good um obviously we have to give like i mean three eight-year-old little boys were savagely murdered right in the woods like Not far from their homes.
This was huge. This would be huge anywhere.
Of course. This would be huge in the biggest city there is.
I mean, this is... Huge no matter what.
So people are freaked out. People are like questioning all sorts of things.
I would be questioning all sorts of things about life and the universe and like what the hell's going on.
There's parents who need answers. There's people that are all of a sudden rumors are starting to circulate now about who did it because that's going to happen in a small town.
Yep. People are pointing fingers at people.
And I mean, there's mutilation involved.
This isn't just like... It would be awful no matter what, but it's not like, oh, three kids killed in the woods.
It's like three kids. I mean, when you go into the details about it, it's like, what the fuck?
That's like nightmare situation. now he said at the time satanist talk was already on everybody's lips right that was already starting to crop up but it was really getting bad during this and apparently the community and the police were already leaning hard into the narrative that this had to be some kind of sacrifice to satan perfect there's no way this was anything else but a ritualistic sacrifice to satan Now, nothing at this crime scene would suggest that.
Right. But okay, I guess. Like, there's nothing there to say that.
Like, I don't think there's anything that says during... I mean, I don't know much about Satan sacrifices.
I have not read up on them much, but... I don't know if hog tying is part of it.
I don't know if throwing them in a pond is part of it.
Yeah. I don't know if any of this is part of it.
And there's nothing around that like paraphernalia or anything that suggests this.
There's just no there's no markings of any kind that I would.
Right. I don't understand what they were going I think they were looking at it as this is fucked up we don't know how to handle this people want answers the devil I think that's literally where it went.
That was the thought process from beginning to end.
Somebody probably was like, it's the devil's work.
And they were like... What's that called?
Like a phrase? Like a, oh, just like, just in an off. that yeah like oh my god this is the devil's work and then somebody was like oh shit you're right and someone was like that's a lead fuck yeah it's the devil's work sacrifice to satan And that was it.
And then they went with it. That's literally it.
Damien said that at this point. and everything else I read about this said at this point preachers were using it as evidence of the end times.
Like in all the sermons on every Sunday and every they were like preaching that this this meant that the end times are coming.
This is it. It's signaling. It is so scary to me.
Yeah and everyone was becoming suspect of anyone who is even remotely different.
Right. Like this is when they started picking out people and being like, you wear black, you must love Satan.
Or you're a hairdresser. Like what is this?
Or it's just slimming. I was going to say, or it's a Tuesday.
It's chic, okay? Get off of me. Me, currently.
Literally. So Damien also says that May 7th, when the news exploded about the bodies, that was the first time that the police had really started focusing in on him, at least by asking questions. right and by showing up to chat with him a lot spook spook and by a lot it was like every day okay they literally talked to him every day and he was like what is happening he's like yeah i was not involved and he wasn't arrested yet but they were trying to observe him more carefully it seemed right So it was around this time that we mentioned Jerry Driver, who used to do those little drive arounds to see if he could see like cult activity.
Yeah. yeah just living his fucking that dude um one of his straight up witch hunter one of his cohorts james sudbury And Steve Jones, who was the one who first saw the floating shoe in the pond.
Right. They showed up to Damien's home to question him about any information he had about local satanic cults.
And he's like, yeah, I'm not as, like, I'm not, I don't know.
He literally was like, they brought me into, like, I guess he was like, we can go in my sister's room and talk, like, because his family was out there.
Yeah. They sat in there and they were like, so do you know anything about satanic cults?
And he was like, no. And then they were like, have you seen any around here?
And he was like, Nope. Pretty sure I would have known if I saw a satanic cult, like just a rogue satanic cult going through the fucking middle of the street.
So he's like, no, I have not seen one. And then they also questioned him about his favorite book in the Bible.
Which is like, you can't do that. No, it's very pertinent to the investigation, right?
No. Absolutely it is. Wrong. Yeah. Because if you answer wrong, you did it.
Like, I'm going to be real with you. That's how this works.
Like, I respect both sides, but I don't know any part of the Bible.
No, I can tell. And again, I respect religion.
Yeah. By all means. I think religion is great.
It does awesome things. Gives you something to believe in.
I personally don't think I could name a book in the Bible.
No, I literally could not. And if somebody was, police officers were asking me because they were like questioning murder.
I definitely couldn't come up with a book.
I think I would literally say thou shall not steal.
Respect thy neighbor. I'd be like... That's about all I know.
I'd be like, the whole thing. The whole thing is my favorite.
I'm a big fan of all of it. I'm a big fan.
Both Testaments. I don't know what he said at the time, but there was a point in Damien's... Like, when he was going...
He went through a period, and you'll see when we talk about it, where he was very interested in religions.
Yeah. Not just one religion. He was just very interested in religions as a whole because they are fascinating.
Yeah, there's fucking like college courses about different kinds of religions.
Yeah, like theology and all that. So he became very interested in Catholicism.
He considered becoming a priest at one point like he was very into that.
Right. In fact, that's where he says he was originally named Michael. and he changed his name to damien which of course people think is because of like the omen right um no was that even out according yeah the original one was oh I was like, that came up when I was like four.
You're like, what? No, it was because. He said there was a priest named Father Damien from the Hawaiian Islands, and he used to work with lepers.
And when he was into Catholicism and studying it, he really connected to that story and he wanted to change his name when his stepfather adopted him.
Because he was changing his last name. And he was like, I want to change my name to Damien.
Yeah. And of course, people were like, I just made that up.
Who knows? I mean, nobody knows about Damien, but I mean, whatever.
Seems pretty legit to me. Seems like a cool reason to do that.
I mean, that's a pretty cool dude to be named after. right um so before they left him after they asked him like stupid shit uh they took a polaroid photo of him why and he was just like okay like because and again he said at the time they're police officers you have to do what they say and you just trust them right that's You know, you're just like, okay, they want a Polaroid.
I have to do a Polaroid. Right. So they took a photo. of them and then they used that photo to show around town to people and ask if they knew anything about this Satan worshipper in town. perfect which of course got people to be that's very leading power of suggestion Yeah.
So people are like, oh, yeah, you know what?
I've seen that Satan worshiper worshiping Satan.
You know, listening to Metallica. Yeah, of course.
Backwards. And people would literally... Somebody said that he caused them to levitate.
That happens to me all the time. And the police were like...
Yep. I bet that happened. Like that was literally a piece of like investigative evidence. that this man said he caused him to levitate.
I shit you not, this case is terrifying.
Oh, it gets me. And you know what? I just have to say this.
It's like really disrespectful to the victims that this is how it was carried out.
Exactly. Because they were not looking for who actually killed these three little babies. in their own neighborhood in the middle of the fucking afternoon.
And it's a mockery. They were looking to close the case.
So that they didn't look like bumbling fucking idiots that they were.
And they just wanted to close the case. Gary Gitchell was going to be retiring soon.
And he wanted this case closed. And he wanted to close on a big case.
Right. And he got it. But he didn't put the people behind bars that did it.
I'm sure people are gonna argue with me about this, but I don't give a shit.
Because I'm going to provide you with straight facts.
You can decide for yourself, but I don't see any other way about this.
The more you look into it, the more... It just simply boggles your mind that these three were considered the absolute, the ones who did it.
Right. And the thing is, when I first looked into this case, I knew nothing about it.
Before I had seen the Paradise Lost documentaries, before they even came out, I heard about the case.
All I knew was that three eight-year-old boys were like brutally mutilated in the woods and murdered.
Yeah. And three teenage boys did it. That's what I knew about the case.
And when I saw pictures of them, I was like, oh, they look a little like...
They look a little tough in those pictures like they're all looking like they're all like big mullets and they just look like I was like I just assumed they did it because I didn't know anything else.
Everything you saw was like, these three boys did it.
When I started looking into it, I was like, Holy shit.
And I went into it again thinking they did it.
And I was completely turned around by the evidence.
So this is not me just... coming up with this because I heard it or something like that.
Like I went into this on the other side a long time ago. and then I researched and I made my own decision and I think everybody else should do that too So people said he caused them to levitate.
Somebody else said that the police told them that they found body parts under Damien's bed.
So someone said to them when they were showing his picture, they were like, oh, yeah, the police told me that they found body parts under Damien's bed oh yeah so of course you're gonna be like yeah he's scary and in fact in paradise lost You can hear John Mark Byers, Christopher Byers' stepfather, repeat this rumor as if it's fact.
He says it in one of his interviews. He's like, they found Christopher's genitals in a jar under Damien's bed.
How are we not arresting him? He says it like this is fact.
Because that's what they were fed. Exactly.
And this is how... how much this was like really serious to people.
Like people were taking these rumors and being like, yes, that is fact.
Right. And the police were not only allowing it, doing they were encouraging it they were they were the ones doing it and they were taking it as fucking evidence right it's insane This could happen to fucking anyone.
That's what's so scary about it. That's the scary thing about it.
If you're a little different. Yeah. It's like, are you kidding?
And later. John Mark Byers. We'll talk about this in part three or four.
Probably three. We're going to talk about this, but he later changes his mind completely.
Right. completely about this so that's just interesting um so this is when damien said they showed up every single day to question him and accuse him of different cult activities every day Then they started taking him to the police station to question him every day.
So he's just like, okay, this is my life now.
His grandmother sold her wedding rings to hire a lawyer.
Oh my god. Because they were so nervous what was happening here.
They were like, we have to- He needs a lawyer.
The police wouldn't let the lawyer into the station.
Which is- not legal and damien says in the book he's like my grandmother sold her wedding rings for nothing Oh, that's so sad.
And that's not legal. No, none of, a lot of this was not legal.
Right. That's like one of the basic legalities is like you have the right to a lawyer.
Oh, yeah. But most of these boys were not told that right or were not made to understand that right.
The thing that Damien repeats in almost every interview since he was arrested is, is one that i think we can all relate to when it comes to police and like authority is he answered their questions honestly because he figured If I didn't do it then they can't prove I did it.
Right. So he was like I didn't see how this could end with me being charged because I didn't do it.
Right. And there's no way you can prove that someone did what they didn't do.
And then he learned that now they can. That they definitely can.
But especially as a teenager, you're like told to respect authority and police and you trust them and they're supposed to be, which most of them are.
Well, in your mind, you think they're looking for the real fucking person that did it.
And that's the thing. I mean, I would like to think that most of them are and it's like, but then you get these departments that are just so fucking crooked it's like it spoils it for the rest of them sorry ash just almost threw a can across the fucking laundry room she's so angry a can of ginger ale just went flying a can of ginger ale um so they took him into the station before they arrested him and they kept him for eight hours whoa They had to let him go because they had nothing on him.
Right. Again, it's not looking like they have this solid case if they can't keep him longer than that.
Exactly. So June 3rd, Damien, Jason Baldwin, and Damien's sister, Michelle, and Damien's girlfriend, Dominique Teer, were at Damien's trailer.
They were watching Leprechaun. Oh my god, I was just telling your daughter about Leprechauns today.
Oh, I was like, you were telling them about Leprechauns?
I was like, I hope not. No, Leprechaun. Yeah, the horror movie Leprechaun.
Damien's parents and grandmother were at a casino for the evening.
So like they had all come, Jason had come over.
They were going to watch horror movies because that's just what they did.
Right. That's also what I did. That's also what we did before you had kids.
Literally. So suddenly the police come slamming at the door. out of nowhere this is at like 10 30 at night right uh damien opened the door three cops had guns pointed in his face They handcuffed him and threw him into a cop car and then they did the same for Jason.
Okay. All the while Jason is saying, what is this for?
And they were saying, for murder. You're being arrested for murder. and he's like he kept saying you have the wrong guy you have the wrong people because he was like i think they have the right like literally they came to the wrong house like we're He was like, what the fuck?
And I also read a story that said, and I'll talk more about like Jason's upbringing.
He usually, I think this was a Wednesday night or something like that.
And every Wednesday his mom had to work late.
And he took care of his younger brothers and he would like make them dinner.
And he had to be there those nights that his mom worked late.
Like it was like his job. And because he had just finished 10th grade and he did well in school, his mom hired a babysitter and was like, you go hang out with your friends to celebrate.
Stop. Yeah. And this is what happens. Wow.
This case breaks my fucking heart. It's so heartbreaking on so many levels.
Yeah. from every route to finish it's like so once there once at the police station damien was told by gary gitchell that his friend had already confessed and that he should just come clean Damien was told that?
Yeah. Okay. Damien had no idea what that meant because he was like, are they talking about Jason? yeah he was like my friend told like what are you talking about and then he was like what did he confess i don't understand what is happening here He didn't have any information, so they put him in a cell and left him there until morning.
So June 4th at 10 a.m., he was brought into a courtroom. where Jason and Jesse Miskelly were also arraigned, and they were all arraigned separately.
Okay. They were all arraigned on three counts of capital murder for the murders of Christopher Byers, Michael Moore and Stephen Branch.
Right. They pled not guilty. At this point, the judge mentioned a confession to Damien.
And he was like, okay. And so the judge was like...
Do you want me to read the confession out loud or do you want to read it yourself?
And he wrote, read it. yeah or he said read it and he said the judge got a little flustered and was like i'm just gonna give it to you to read And Damien was like, once you read this confession, you see why he didn't want to read it out loud to a courtroom full of people.
Oh, shit. Because it is the most... fucked up i don't even what i mean farce it's not a confession right It is so beyond.
And I'm going to go over it. Don't you worry.
I have clips of it and we're going to pull it all apart.
Oh, God. So the judge actually said, you can read it.
And by this point, he had no idea who confessed and to what.
Right. So he was like, I don't know what's happening.
So he's like, cool, hand it over. the fuck.
So as it turns out, Jesse Muskelly had confessed to the murders of Christopher Byers, Michael Moore and Steve branch and he had said that jason and damien were the ones who killed them but he was implicated in it okay So what's not mentioned anywhere is that there were actually two other suspects aside from these three.
Oh, shit. I didn't actually even know that.
Yeah. These three became suspects after these two.
Their names were Chris Morgan and Brian Holland.
They had rap sheets for like drug offenses and shit.
Four days after the little boy's bodies were discovered...
They just abruptly peaced out of Arkansas and went to Oceanside, California.
That's weird. Yeah. So Morgan apparently was slightly familiar with these victims because he had driven an ice cream truck route in their neighborhood. yeah um so they were arrested in oceanside on may 17th of 1993 and they both took polygraph exams by the California police yeah um And they were said to have indicated deception when they said anything about the murders. oh yeah um and that was actually noted there was actual documentation of that exactly there's actual record of this Then they were questioned and Morgan said, well, I have, you know, I've done a lot of drugs.
I've used alcohol heavily. And then he said, I have a lot of blackouts and memory lapses.
And he said he, quote, might have killed the boys.
Oh, yeah. California police contacted the West Memphis police and were like, He might have killed people.
They also sent blood and urine samples from them to the West Memphis police.
There's no indication that they investigated these two boys or did anything.
That's so fucked up. They didn't follow up on it.
They were like, oh, no, we have the people.
Yeah. And then they wouldn't let Morgan's statement that he might have killed the boys into trial.
It was barred from they couldn't be admitted into evidence. this is so i don't even like how do you have the power because yeah because it fucked up their whole narrative right Now, let's give a little background into Damian, Jason and Jesse, because I think it's important for people to know who these three are, too. um so all three of these boys were extremely poor poor that most of us can't and don't want to ever imagine They were easy targets.
Very easy. Damien was born Michael Hutchinson on December 11th, 1974.
He had a younger sister, Michelle, and his name later came from stepfather Jack Eccles.
Okay. That's why. His mother, father and stepfathers were all very troubled.
His whole family was just. Troubled is a very mild way of putting it.
Okay. The family was not happy, not functioning.
They were so poor. They were poorer than most of us can even comprehend. were called at various times and every social worker agreed that this family was a fucking mess and that those kids were in trouble.
Yeah. Should have been taken out of there.
Oh, that's really sad. Jack, when his... So his mother divorced his father... and met this man named jack at church okay um jack came into the family he introduced um Damien and his family to a church called Church of God and it was those kind of churches where people speak in tongues and scream and yell and Okay.
And he said that he you would be invited up to be healed and healing included smearing olive oil all over your face and shoving you to the ground while screaming. screaming at you in tongues.
Oh. Which, like, if that's your thing, I mean... All the power to you.
Yeah, like, definitely, like, go forth with that. but he was in fourth grade at the time.
It's a little much for children. Yeah, I feel like that's a little scary. forced them to go to this church, which I don't think you should ever force a child into a religion, but that's just me.
If you want to do that, cool. live your best life that's just me um they had to go all week and would and he would stand over them to force them to pray every night wow Which is like, are you really getting a good prayer out if someone's standing behind you being like, I will fuck you up if you don't pray?
I wouldn't know. I'd just be praying that this guy would go away.
I'd be like, I hope he doesn't fuck me up.
I hope his hair is good enough. I'd be praying that he leaves.
God, are you there? It's me, Margaret. Seriously.
Well, one night, Damien said that Jack punched his Chihuahua pepper in the face because it jumped up on the bed while they were praying.
Because it's a dog. This dude was an asshole of the highest order.
That hurts my heart. So soon he moved the family into the church. in they lived in the church yep the back of the church had decrepit old rooms and he forced them to move in there Okay.
Jack abused Damien physically and mentally.
His mother just let it all happen. Good.
She forced him to call Jack dad. Oh, that's fucked up.
And to take his name. And to this day, he says he feels like the most betrayed by his mother.
And he'll say, like, my mother was not a bad person.
She's, like, had me young. she did what she could do like there were like he mentioned something he says she loved me like the only way she knew how like he kind of gives that kind of like so much credit to people that can say that but he also says like she's dramatic yeah she loves to be involved in this whole thing she loves to act like she was a great mother and she's not like he's very real about his parents right and he says like he's like she loved me in in this way like when i was like wheezing and like struggling to breathe from bronchitis one night she would sit by me all night and like rub my head whilst chain smoking cigarettes.
Oh. So it was like, here, I'm going to do half a mom thing and also chain smoke cigarettes.
He was like, you know, that's who she was.
Right. So, you know, this is the kind of family that's happening here.
This is sad. This is really bleak. Yeah, this is pretty bleak.
They then moved the family into a literal shack that was on like a big hill.
And it was owned by a farmer and he charged them 30 bucks a month for it.
Okay. The shack had like a literal like metal roof and no running water.
No electricity, no toilets, and it was filled with garbage and rats.
Oh, and he said in the winter it was so cold that there was ice inside.
And in the summer it was so boiling like the like literally the middle the metal roof.
Yeah. That you would literally just boil in there.
Yeah. Why did... Why? And when they would use like a... wood stove for warmth in the winter it would just fill the whole place with black smoke oh my god so they'd just be like coughing and hacking and breathing in smoke like why can't we just live in our trailer yeah no they cannot they couldn't even afford a trailer oh that's the thing they don't get a trailer until later okay So he met Jason Baldwin in junior high.
They bonded over metal bands and horror and they hung out every single day.
They became brothers, they said. They were like, we were each other's brother.
I love that. In the book, Damien says, quote, we shared everything we had, food, clothes, money, whatever.
If one of us had it, both of us had it. It was known without having to be said.
I love a brotherhood. And that's like real friendship.
Retweet if you love a brotherhood. Isn't that real friendship right there?
Yes. Damien started dressing in a black trench coat.
He wore black all the time. I think he went through like a skateboard phase too.
He was literally like trying to find. We've all been there.
We've all been through a skateboard phase.
We've all been through it, honestly. But he liked to wear a black trench coat, which of course got him marked as the kid with the black trench coat.
He's the devil. And he adopted kind of a dickish way of interacting with people.
I can't imagine why. Well, probably because he was just like, you all suck.
Like, I mean, when you've grown up that way, I can imagine you're only a dick as well.
Yeah, you just don't want people around you, I'd assume.
And he was the exact opposite of the people in the town.
He had long black hair that was... He said often people would cite that it was dyed black hair.
It was natural jet black hair. Right. That he was like, I did not dye my hair.
This is just what came out of my head. And you can see his father.
His father has jet black hair as well. Right.
He had super pale skin. He used to like shave one side of his head because which is like it's so funny because now. like and especially like bring him into the northeast right and he's like fucking cool as shit looking and like super like hipster and all like whoa right dude right And it's like, put them in another place in the country.
And it's like, it's the devil. It's just so interesting how America is so different in every corner.
It really is. So. Jason was also dirt poor and he was like a little metalhead with like a seriously intense mullet. oh my god he was so fucking adorable i can't his mullet was impressive is we'll post it is an understatement the mullet the mullet was that boy committed to the mullet no you know what you know what it wasn't a bullet it was the mullet It was not a mullet.
It was a B mullet. It was like several mullets came together to form mega mullet.
That's what it was. a mullet showdown so jason's dad left when he was four oh how do you leave angel His mom Gail suffered from schizophrenia.
He had two younger brothers that he became another parent to essentially.
Yeah. She would sometimes go off her medication.
She would have some trouble. She would leave that she was going to the store.
She wouldn't come back for like a day or two.
You know what I mean? And he had to, he picked up the slack.
He was like their dad. And he just did it.
So, and it was hard for her to function normally as their mother a lot of the time.
Of course, she was struggling. But she did her absolute best.
And with the medication she was on, she would have moments where she was like really in with it.
He was also super close with his mother.
He often said how much he respected and appreciated how hard she worked to support him and his siblings.
What an angel. And, like, he just kind of was like, I understood that she had a mental health issue that she was trying to deal with, but she was also trying to do everything.
Like, she was working hard. And she had three fucking kids.
And you look at her and, like, when you see interviews with her, you're just like, you poor woman.
Like, going through what she went through.
She did her best. And now... and she's so like adamant about jason being like he's a good kid and like he didn't do this and it's like not one of those where you hear you know the parent he's a good kid Right.
And it's like, you know, she's like, no, he's like, he takes care of his siblings like he's an actual good kid.
Right. He really is. So Damien met Jesse Muskelly. when one summer day in high school he went to jason's house and jason's mother told him that jason was at jesse's okay and it was only like a couple trailers down They saw each other around, but they didn't really hang out.
Yeah. Jason just lived near Jesse, but wasn't truly friends with him.
It was one of those things. You just like see him every now and a while.
Right. Jesse Miskelly was born July 10th, 1975.
He had the word bitch tattooed on his chest.
Did he really? I didn't even know that. Which people were wondering like what that means.
And I've heard a lot of people say like they think it was probably one of those things like.
Where he was trying to be cool and got bitch on his chest.
Like, no, he hasn't really said what that means.
Oh, he's the bitch. Or if it was like about someone else. yeah um he also had like a skull and dagger tattoo he had like a couple of other like really like just normal like I'm a tough kid tattoos.
Right. He had an IQ of 72. Mm hmm. Awful.
Yeah. At seven years old, he still couldn't say the ABCs and couldn't count past 15.
Oh my God, stop. Yeah. By age 11, he had only made it to the third grade.
Usually you are like eight or nine in the third grade.
He was a fighter. He was definitely a fighter.
But he was a fighter because he was really tiny.
Yeah. He was a tiny kid. He had, and he kind of felt like he had to make up for his stature.
Well, I was going to say, I'm sure people made fun of him.
Well, and that's the thing. And people made fun of him.
But also his mother abandoned the family when he was a baby.
And he had nine half siblings. His family was described as loving but rough by psychologists.
So his half siblings would literally like beat him up. and like make fun of him and stuff.
So he felt like he constantly needed to be on guard and fighting.
Right. And he says that. He's like, I just felt like I had to be like... like taller and bigger and stronger than everybody by fighting.
So Jesse absolutely adored his father, but he also acknowledged that he drank like a fish and he was a really rough guy.
And Jesse definitely dealt with physical abuse.
Right. By his father, for sure. That's really sad.
But he... was so loyal to his father it's one of those situations all throughout this entire your fucking thing it's like the gabriel fernandez thing which i know everybody wants us to cover but i'm gonna be honest with you i don't think we're covering i don't know if we'll cover that I'm not saying we definitely won't stay tuned, but it doesn't look like it.
I'm saying that I won't be here for that if we cover it. it so but in that one it's like it's like you see that like kids that are abused or have really rough upbringings like still care for their parents so much and are so loyal to them In early high school, Damien met a girl named Deanna.
She became his first love. Deanna was a Wiccan, even though she came from an extremely Christian family.
She taught Damien about it and he loved the religion.
Yeah, because it's all about the earth. Yeah, and he was like, I love goddesses.
I'm into this. Like, I love it. Later it was used to convict him, basically.
Right. But like that's the other thing that's frustrating about that is like Satanism and Wiccan are not the same thing.
Well, and at the time, I don't even think Wiccan was Wicca was acknowledged as an actual religion.
Right. by like the government right i don't think it's an it is now so nobody had any understanding of what it actually was just they're witches like that's what it was it's so stupid
So Deanna and he had a crazy intense relationship, like crazy.
They talked about running away together all the time.
They were very on and off. And on the last day of classes, they made their move and they decided to run away together.
The two of them, along with Jason, were hanging out on their way out of town.
Indiana's parents called the cops. No. They did.
I wish they could have just gotten away.
So Deanna and Damien decided to spend the night at an abandoned trailer.
That night police found them and arrested them both.
They were taken to separate jails. They had stolen nothing out of the trailer, but they were charged with burglary and sexual misconduct.
What? Because they caught them in the act, I think.
Oh, that sucks. They're both. They were 18.
They're teens. Right. Well, and also it's like they can, it's like they're teenagers.
Right. This is where he met Jerry Driver. oh goody this is when jerry driver comes in i was like i don't like you he's like i'm a i'm a be obsessed with you for years to come boy jesus christ so the juvenile officer who would later become obsessed with him was jerry fucking driver He immediately started questioning Damien about Satanists in town and such.
He was then forced into a psych hospital.
Damien was. After rumors spread while he was being held at the jail, rumors spread that he and Deanna had attended to have a baby and then sacrificed that baby to Satan.
Oh. Which is like, I'm sorry, did they have clear written plans of this?
Because I don't understand. Or is this just hearsay?
Meanwhile, the staff at the juvenile detention center he was held at said he treated everyone with the quote, utmost respect.
They were like, he did not seem like this crazy wild child. and there was no real evidence of this supposed plan to sacrifice a baby that is so fucked up And so Driver said that he had told him, quote, I think his claim was that he was a Wiccan and he worshipped goddesses.
He looked like one of the slasher movie type guys.
Boots, coat, long stringy black hair, though he cut it short sometimes.
So he's already he's like he looked weird.
Right. So I think he did it. You can't just arrest people because they look weird.
Jerry. And also, he looked like those slasher movie guys.
Like, what slasher movie guy? Like, that's... What?
Like he's wearing clothes and he has long hair.
That's not a slasher movie guy. That's just a guy.
Yeah, you're stupid, Jerry. You're real stupid.
So he spent several weeks in this psych hospital after this incident.
Now, Deanna had been released because normally...
This is a misdemeanor at best. Right. And they would just be released.
Which also like barely. Maybe on probation.
Yeah. Deanna was already released to her family.
Of course. Damien somehow was still being held for this.
Only for this. Right. So it's like, what now?
And all the while... Jerry Driver, while he's spending time in the psych hospital, he did this so that he could go out and form a case against him.
So he's asking teens all around about satanic shit and Damien.
He showed up at his parents trailer and convinced his mother to allow him to confiscate things from his room. which is not within his jurisdiction.
And Damien had like a skull collection. Samesies.
I was going to say I literally have three skulls on my nightstand.
Which was used against him, of course. Right.
After his few weeks spent in the psych hospital, he was then released back to his parents, who are now back together.
His biological father. He's now back together with his mother.
Apparently she had kicked Jack Eccles to the curb.
Well, that's good. He was diagnosed with depression and possible bipolar manic depressive disorder.
Damien was? Yeah. Okay. Okay. But they said that he was not a harm to himself or others.
He was allowed to be released. left Jack Eccles because he was an asshole and also because Damien's little sister Michelle alleged that he had molested her.
Oh no. Yeah. So now his dad, his dad lived in Aloha, Oregon.
I say Oregon right. I just want to put that out there.
Yeah. So the family took a week-long road trip to Oregon from the psych hospital. when he got there he met with another juvenile officer because now he was in the system he was going to have to meet with that with the juvenile officer in the next, you know, the next state he was going to.
This juvenile officer asserted that he should be minimally supervised for four months.
Okay. He was like, I'm not really worried about it.
Let's just do this. Right. And then he should be released from the system because he was just a regular goth kid.
Well, Jerry Driver wasn't having that. Of course not.
No, because he knows better. So the police were called within a few months because Damien's parents said that they were afraid he was going to hurt himself.
Okay. He was placed into another hospital setting.
He said he wasn't intending to hurt himself but was depressed because he missed Deanna and he also missed his best friend jason oh now it was also widely known that his family was severely troubled so he was miserable Right, and he needed his friends and his girlfriend.
He was not happy. So he was seen and assessed and released because they saw no threat.
He was going to be 18 and his parents were like, we don't want you back.
So he was like, cool, I don't want to go back.
So he asked if he could go back to Arkansas where he was going to reluctantly live with Jack Eccles until he got himself on his feet.
Oh, So Driver met him at the train station when he arrived in Arkansas and immediately threw him in juvenile detention.
For what? So he was it was literally because he said by making threats to his family that he was going to hurt himself or others.
He had violated his parole. So he was like, now I'm going to throw you back in juvenile detention.
When he was eventually released again, he was under driver's probation now.
Oh, good. So driver said he had to get a GED.
He had to check with him every week. So he did all of these things.
He got a GED. Yeah. He did all the things and drivers still didn't give a shit.
He was also now 18 and not supposed to be under juvenile detention, probation.
So they started looking at Damien. and his now-girlfriend Dominique here.
They also honed in on Jason now because Jason hung out with Damien.
Right. That's the only reason they honed in on Jason.
That's not fair. Nope, not at all. Jason later said, quote, others didn't like us.
They'd been accusing me of being a Satanist since I was in the sixth grade.
It was because I had long hair and wore concert t-shirts with bands like Metallica and Guns N' Roses and Ozzy Osbourne and U2.
You too is so hardcore. He knew back then that they were going to infiltrate everybody's iTunes.
He did. He was like, that's metal. uh damien and i kind of dressed different he too wasn't living his desired life and just like my mom he suffered from depression i think that our friendship helped him So this brings us back now to May 1993, now that you have information about that. when Stephen Branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore were brutally murdered.
At this point, Damien's parents had moved back to Arkansas, and he moved back in with them.
Okay. So now he's living with his parents again in Arkansas in a trailer.
Police came to question Jason at his trailer about the murders.
And they said that on the night of the murders, they had gone to Jason's uncle's house and Jason had cut the lawn.
Damien phoned his father to pick them up at the laundromat at Missouri and North Washington.
They then were picked up at 6 p.m. and Damien's father took Jason and Domini home and Damien went home.
Now, they were then questioned without being Mirandized and without their parents present.
Mm-hmm. This is at Jason's trailer. The police just showed up.
They talked to him. They're like, what did you do that day?
Damien and Domini were there. So at this point, when they start questioning them illegally.
Yeah. Damien said his girlfriend, Dominique, was four months pregnant with his child.
Yeah. He said the crimes committed to those boys were sick and when asked what he thought killed the boys he repeated what the newspapers had said mutilations and such news. newspaper right uh they use this as he must have been there because he said mutilations when it was in all the newspapers right Then they asked, do you believe in God or the devil?
Isn't there like some in between? And also, yeah, it's not pertinent.
You can't ask me that. Why the fuck does that matter?
Because if they asked me that, I'd be like, well, I'm an atheist.
What does that mean? Are you going to arrest me now?
That has nothing to do with anything. Like, what the fuck?
And it's just, it's also not black and white.
Like, it's not just God or the devil. And you can't ask me that.
Well, and Damien kind of answers that way.
He says, quote, I believe in a God, but a female God. evil force not the devil right and that's kind of it makes sense right at this point jason was asked the same questions but then his mother gail arrived on scene and told the officers get the fuck out of my little words go fuck yourselves and leave like you can't just question my child out in front of my house right So at this point, a neighbor that was living close to Jesse Meskelly named Vicki Hutchinson She was 30.
I think she was 32 at the time. She was a waitress.
She had been watching all this happen and seeing all like the hubbub.
And Damien and Jason were becoming suspects a little bit now.
So she was like, huh, I want to be involved in this in some way.
Now, she had been taken into the police station earlier in the month for fraud charges.
Oh, good. And while she was there, she brought her eight year old son, Aaron, because when you go to the station, the police station up on fraud charges, you should bring your eight year old child.
Yeah. um aaron was friends with the victims okay he was also eight years old so it makes sense He made statements about a black man in a maroon van picking the victims up from school the day they were murdered.
Okay. This is a lie because they went right home.
After school. Right. They didn't get picked up from anyone.
And also one of them lived like right next to the school.
Right. They didn't ever get like. Like picked up.
Yeah. And none of the parents, all the parents are like, no, that did not.
They came right home. Right. So that's just a lie.
And it later comes out that Aaron lied a lot. so he says that so police buy it of course let's go with that eight-year-old old truth is eight year old truth right so they bring vicky back in because they're like let's chat some more you got some information And while they're talking to her, she, in her words, playfully suggested that she become an informant.
Oh, God. Mainly because she just wanted to be involved.
Well, they took her up on it. Of course they did.
A random 30 something year old waitress.
Who is not involved in this at all. They were like, yeah, you should probably be involved in this.
Right. Are you fucking kidding me? She knew Jesse.
He had babysat for her children. Yeah. And she started asking Jesse about the murders and about his relationship with Damian and Jason.
He told her he didn't really know Damien at all.
He thought he was weird. And he was like, I don't really know him.
He just seems weird. But like, whatever.
And he said he knew Jason from like second grade.
And he was like, and he's a really nice kid.
But like, we don't really hang out that much.
Vicky asked to be introduced to them. And Jesse was like, that's weird, but okay.
So one night when he saw Damien and Jason, he told them to come to Vicky's trailer to meet her.
And they were like, okay. Yeah, they're like, we're not doing anything else.
Yeah, and it was like a 15 minute meeting.
That was it. At the time, Vicki had set up like occult books that she got at the library and made it like somewhat spooky because she thought it would make them like more comfortable.
Feel at home. Yeah. so no vicky told police so the police knew this was happening they wanted her to do this they had bugged her trailer oh And they were going to record any incriminating statements.
Now, he didn't say anything incriminating.
She said the recording was crystal clear.
You could hear everything. But police later said it wasn't a good recording and it somehow just... got lost oh just like everything else i imagine it's because they didn't say anything incriminating so they were like well that's that Now, Vicky told police that during this whole thing that she and Damien started an eight day affair.
Stop. She's 30 something, by the way. And he's, I think, just turned 18.
Right. Which I guess it's like legal question mark, but like.
But also like he, no, wrong. Really? Like this kid is supposedly a murderer of an eight year old and you have an eight year old son? yeah i'm sorry you need to like get more busy check yourself before you wreck yourself This turned out to later be false.
Yeah, of course. In that one evening on May 19th, 1993, he brought her to an espat.
What is that? Witches. She was told by Jerry Driver is a witch's gathering.
Oh, you know. So she said Damien drove in a red Ford Escort.
She drove she drove her and Jesse there and that there was a big orgy in the woods in this field with people naked and painted in black paint and And she got so upset because she's such a good Christian woman and wanted to leave.
So Damien agreed. okay but she said they dropped jesse off at the witch orgy and damien drove her home cool Vicky sounds like you have some vivid dreams sis seems legit I don't know I see nothing wrong yet Now, a few things here.
Damien doesn't drive, and that's actually well known and well documented by all police.
He did not have a license. He did not know how to drive.
And a Red Ford Escort belonged to no one.
They never found this Red Ford Escort. Nobody in anybody's family drove one.
Wasn't a thing. so like cool like vicky sis um also jesse was like what the fuck no did i did not go to in a spot Yeah, I was with my dad, thank you.
Like, no. He's like, sounds rad, but I did not know.
I was going to say, sounds like a fucking party.
Wish I was invited. Holy shit. But police believed her with zero evidence.
Duh. Just her word. It's Vicky. They were like, that's it.
It's Vicky, Elena. It's Vicky. So she had an eight-year-old son, Aaron, like I said.
And Aaron also told police that there was a cult activity in the area.
He had seen it. And it was involving Jesse, Damien, and Jason.
Oh, yeah. So the police were like, got it.
Or maybe he's just listening to his mom's phone calls.
Exactly. Well, later, after she had already testified under oath at their murder trial about this... literally told this story under oath at a capital murder trial.
Oh my god. Aaron later said that he also lied because police told him to.
Jesus Christ. Now, this spot tale was from Driver, of course.
Yeah. According to the Arkansas Times, quote, this is what Vicki said.
Well, we were sitting there and he, driver, goes on. okay, what really needs going here is, I guess that maybe Victoria goes to one of those meetings they have and is spot.
So Hutchinson says that when detectives tape recorded interviews with her, quote, They would shut the tape off and tell me, no that's not how it happened Victoria, you come up with something better. oh that's fucked yeah this was all used to arrest damien right and jason and jesse right Because they already knew what they were going to do.
So they were like, okay, let's make this as good as we can.
And literally, Jerry Driver, they said, so Victoria, Vicky said, I mean, her name's Victoria, but they call her Vicky. yeah whatever um she said they would meet at like this weird storage facility with her the police okay and vicky and they would like tell her what to do what to say with them um like they suggested that they make her shit spooky so that damien felt more at home Meanwhile, he's like, what the fuck are your books about?
Like, bye. And why are you hanging out with me, 30 year old?
So and this is when she and she later admitted that the only time she ever spoke to Damien Echols was during the 15 minutes when they came to her trailer. right but all of a sudden this fabricated story of an affair and in a spot she needs a hobby yeah or maybe a couple more tables yeah a couple more more tables vicky you've been that woman a table you've been 86 give that woman a party of 20 yeah stat now yesterday so so yeah so she so yeah she said that they would meet they would tell her what to say and jerry driver was the one that was like you know what Let's create a spot.
I was just going to say a spot. Let's do it.
So after all these rumors were flying because it's a small place and shit gets around fast.
And also the police and Jerry Driver were literally walking around with their photos, calling them satanic cult leaders.
Right. People were saying that they talked to Damien and he told them that he killed the boys.
Of course. This happened a lot. And many of these things were proven false or the people admitted to straight up lying. oh good out of it um some of them said like there was a we'll get into this during the trial but some of them would say like they overheard him say something But they didn't actually hear him say that.
They heard him say something like that and they knew he was talking about the boys.
Like that's the kind of shit that went on trial.
How is that allowed? It shouldn't be. So June 2nd, 1993, Vicki Hutchinson asked Jesse to stay over her trailer.
Because there are reports of like some scary peeping Tom around and she was nervous.
Right. So Jesse says, of course, and he sleeps on her couch with a gun literally to keep her safe. that's nice the next morning at 9am detectives came to the trailer and asked to speak to him at the station uh they were with jesse's dad so he said he felt safe and he agreed He said, quote, he said we was going to the police department.
I didn't know what was going on, but I wasn't scared at the time.
I didn't know what they wanted to talk to me about.
So they get this borderline mentally challenged teenager in a police station, and they say because of his age, they have to tell his dad to sign something so they can question him.
Right. Again, they're not giving him any information.
He's just feeling like, what? And he's like, totally.
You can get my dad's signature. I'll talk to you.
No problem. So they take him back to his dad, and on the way to his dad, they tell him that there's a $35,000 reward for any information, and if he could provide it... his family would get that money.
Oh, okay. So he literally said that the police told him, quote, He said if I knew anything to tell the police and then my dad could buy himself a new truck.
Stop. Yeah. And he loves his dad. He does.
And he just wants his dad to buy a new truck.
So he told them he heard things about the victims from friends and that he saw some kids on the service road leading to Robin Hood Hills that day, but that's it.
Then they gave him a polygraph. uh-huh so these assholes told jesse that the polygraph test could read people's minds Oh, like they were literally like, it reads your mind.
That's what it does. Nope. That's not how that works.
Also, they're not even admissible as evidence.
No, they're not. Well, and then they questioned him.
So Gary Getzel led him through this confession shamelessly.
According to Jesse, quote, they asked me how did I know so much about the murder if I didn't do it?
I kept telling him I didn't know who did it.
I just knew of it. What my friend told me. that they kept hollering at me.
Gary Gitchell and Brian Ridge both. They kept saying they know I had something to do with it because other people done told them.
After I told them what the boys were wearing, Gary Gitchell told me, was any of them tied up?
That's when I went along with him. I repeated what he told me to.
I said, yes, they was tied up. He asked, what was they tied up with?
I told him rope. He got mad. He said, God damn it, Jesse, don't mess with me.
He said no, they was tied up with shoestrings.
I had to go all through the story again until I got it right.
Oh, no. they hollered at me until i got it right so whatever he was telling me i started telling him back but i figured something was wrong because if i'd killed him i'd know how i'd done it Right.
None of this was tape recorded, by the way.
Why? They didn't want to tape record them feeding a story to somebody who's mentally challenged.
Yeah. Now, the whole time Jesse says that they just told him what to say and yelled it until he said it back.
And he just wanted to go home to his dad and they kept telling him that he could if he cooperated.
And he's like, cool, I'm cooperating. And again.
This is a mentally challenged teenager. This is a borderline intellectually functioning teenager. teenager who is already functioning at a way lower level than what his actual age should be.
And they knew that and they fucking used it to their advantage.
And they did know that. And they actually claimed that they had no idea.
They had no idea that he had any mental deficiency at all.
They had no idea. Yeah, sure. And later, during this confession that I'm about to get into, you're going to see they definitely knew.
They definitely knew right from the get go.
Right. So they then showed him a photo of one of the kids at the coroner's office.
Oh, God. And those pictures, I saw one by accident the other day.
They're horrifying. Yeah. And that's some of the some of you guys have said that you asked you were like, either I stumbled upon them or I went looking for them, like thinking that they couldn't be that bad.
And I regret it. They're horrible. They will ruin your life.
They then, so then they decided to tape the interview after they prepped him.
So they showed him this photo, scared the shit out of him.
They then played an audio clip to him after showing him the dead child and It was Aaron Hutchinson's voice on this audio.
But Jesse would only find this out way later.
He had no idea who this child was. And it was a creepy small child voice saying, nobody knows what happened but me.
And it was like this little like whispered voice.
That's terrifying. Why did they do that?
They put none of this in their notes, by the way.
They did all this, but they put none of it down in the official record.
Right. They did it because it was going to fuck them up.
That's so... How do you even think of that?
Well and this is when they started the confession tapes.
Now, I don't know how anyone can honestly convince me that this is not the most obvious leading of a person ever on planet Earth.
It's criminal. Like straight up criminal.
Yeah, the whole fucking case is. And also, just to be clear, the police again claim that they didn't know he had a mental handicap.
But you are going to see they did clearly.
They don't even try to hide it. So let's see.
The first thing we are going I'm going to play I'm going to play a quick clip.
And then I'm going to yell about how terrible it is.
So here's the first one. Same. Let's go straight to that date, 5-5 of 93.
Wednesday, early in the morning. You received a phone call, is that correct?
Yes, I did. Who made that phone call? Just Bob.
All right. What occurred? What did he talk about?
He called me and asked me could I go to West Memphis with him and I told him no.
I had to work. And then he told me he had to go to West Memphis, so him and Damien went, and then I went with him.
All right, when? Wednesday. All right, when did you go with him?
9 o'clock in the morning? Yes, sir. Okay.
So he says 9 a.m. Nope. Kids were in school, and also Jason was confirmed in school that day.
Right. 9 a.m., they were all in school. So that makes no sense.
Balls already. Now, were you in a car? Whose car were you on?
So he asks him whether he was in a car. And then before the answer, he asks him to follow up like it was a yes.
He's like, were you in a car? What car were you in?
Right. So now Jesse's just like, uh, this person's car.
He's like, okay, obviously I was. He just goes with it.
Ugh. Where did you go? We went to Robin Hood.
You went to the Robin Hood. Explain to me where those woods are.
Blue bacon truck wash. Just a little patch of woods.
Little patch of woods. Behind blue bacon?
Behind it. Right back there behind it. Okay.
So now he never said behind Blue Beacon.
He never said behind. Right. But as soon as they were like, oh, you're behind it.
He's like, yeah. Well, that's so he's like a little patch of woods, a little patch of woods.
It's literally like I'm going to repeat what you say because that's what you want me to do.
And then he's like behind Blue Beacon. And he goes, yep, behind it.
Right back there behind it. Because he's like, yep, that's what you want me to say.
Like, I'm going to say it. It's like he never said behind.
You just led him to that. And that would never be allowed.
What occurred while you were there? When I was there, I saw Damien hit this one.
Hit this one boy real bad and Then he started screwing them and stuff.
So, you saw Damien strike... Chris Myers in the head.
What pisses me off about this one is that he never said he hit him in the head.
He just said he hit he said he hit him real bad he never said the head like why are you bringing up the head sir is that because that's what you want him to say Michael Moore took off running, so I chased him and grabbed him and held him until they got there and then I left.
Okay. All right. When you get the boys back together, where are you at from the creek?
I was up by the service road. Up by the service road?
Okay. Now, when he hits the first bullet, Where are they at when he hits him?
Are you in the woods? Are you on the side of the big bayou?
Are you out in the field? Where are you at?
I was in the woods. In the woods. Okay, you've been down there in those woods before.
Can you describe to me what in those woods, what's the location where you were?
Is there a path you go down? I was down a little path.
All right. Where does that path go to? It leads out there.
Close to the field, close to the interstate.
Okay. That's where I was at. All right.
When he hits the first boy and then Jason hits another boy.
And one takes off running. Where does he run to?
That one, he runs out going out the park. chased him and grabbed him and brought him back.
Which way does he go? I mean, is he going back towards where the houses are?
Is he going to... Is it blue bacon? Is it going out towards the field?
Where's it running to? Towards the houses.
Towards the houses. Where the pipe is that goes across the water?
Yeah. Okay. They run out there. I called him and brought him back.
And then I took off. This is the part that really makes me crazy.
He says he left. He said, I left. After they came and got Michael Moore, I left. but they're still asking him what happened next in the woods.
He just said he left. And he does this several times.
He takes himself away from it and they keep putting him back in.
And he just goes with it because they're being mean to him when he doesn't.
Okay. Well, you came back a little bit later, and all three boys are tied.
Is that right? And I took off and went home.
All right. Have they got their clothes on when you saw them tied?
They had them off. They had already gotten them off.
When he first hit. When Damien first hit the first bullet, did they have their clothes on then?
All right. When did they take their clothes off?
Right after they beat up all three of them and beat them up real bad.
Beat them up real bad. Then they took their clothes off.
It ends up being seven times that Jesse says he left before the murders happened.
And then he was just told that he went back.
Ridge is like, so when you came back later, he never said he came back.
But Ridge knew that he had to do that to place Jesse back there.
Exactly. He needed him to be more implicated in this.
And it just makes it the seven times he says I left during this whole confession and every single time they don't go.
So did you go home? They don't ask him what he did.
They say, no, you were there. Tell me what happened next.
It's like, no, dude, listen to what he's saying.
Then they tied him. Then they tie their hands up.
They start screwing them and stuff, cutting them and stuff.
I saw it and I turned around and looked.
And then I took off running. I went home.
And then they called me and asked me how come I didn't stay.
I told them I just couldn't. Just couldn't stay for the night.
I couldn't stay and see what they were doing to him.
Okay. Now, when it's going on, when it's taking place...
You saw somebody with a knife. Who had a knife?
Jason. Jason had a knife. He said he left.
He just said he left and went home. Right.
He just said he left. He, in fact, added on to it and said that Damien called him and said, why did you leave?
And still he's like, cool, cool, cool. So did you see a knife come out?
It's like he just said he left before the whole thing.
This whole thing is like, I don't even understand how this was admissible at all.
What did he cut with a knife? What did you see him cut, or who did you see him cut?
I saw him cut one of the... All right. Where did he cut him at?
Cut him in the face. All right. Another boy was cut, I understand.
Where was he cut at? On his bottom. Was he face down and he was cutting on him?
You're talking about bottom. Do you mean right here in his groin area?
Okay. So first of all, he says bottom like it's a quite like bottom.
Is that what you're looking for? Right. And then I don't know about you, but I don't call my groin my bottom.
That's not my ass is. my bottom that's not what that is and then so he says bottom right and gary gitchell's like do you mean this Like, not the bottom?
And he's like, yeah, because that's what you want me to say.
Do you mean an entirely different thing? thing and he's like yep sure do and he's like so the groin and he's like yep and he's like cool cool all right moving on like that what it's ridiculous You know what his penis is?
Yeah, that's where it was cut at. That's where he was cut.
Which boy was that? Okay. Are you sure that he was the one that was cut?
They ask him if he knows what a penis is.
Why would you ask somebody that if you didn't know that they were mentally challenged?
Exactly. You're really... So if he's, like, at a... a functioning like age level as a 17 year old it's like he would know what a penis is do they They asked Damien or Jason that?
Exactly. Do you know what a penis is? No.
They knew he was mentally handicapped, so they were like, you do know what a penis is, right?
Right. And then they're just being assholes. like yeah i'm like way to be very like offensive to like you must not know what a penis is like really Again, he says he took off and he is ignored and they just keep going with it.
So now they decide that they need to fucking correct his statement.
Oh good. Yes, you heard that right. They are correcting his statement.
Were y'all close to the creek at that point?
Where was the little boy actually at? He was close.
Do you know where the bio is? And you know where the little creek is that goes out to the expressway and doesn't have a lot of water in it, but it's got some water in it and it's flowing through there.
Which side of that creek were you on? Were you on the Memphis side of the creek or were you on the Blue Beacon side of that creek?
Blue Beacon. On the Blue Beacon. So there's like a tall bank.
Where were you at on that bank? I was up at the top.
Where were they at? They was at the bottom.
On which side? Memphis side. They were on the Memphis side.
Alright, we're going to correct that even further.
That's the east side. Memphis side is the east side. and you were standing at the top of the bank on the west side.
Were you looking down at what was going on?
I was looking down at us and all that. I took off.
Once again, he left. He's like, hey guys, I dipped.
I... pieced out of there and then they literally they said we're gonna correct that No, you can't correct somebody's statement.
You can't correct someone's recollection when you weren't there.
All right. You went home. And about what time was it that all this was taking place?
I'm not saying when they called you. I'm saying what time was it that you were actually there in the park?
I was there about 12. So he's already stated that this started at nine.
So I don't know why we're asking once more, but whatever.
And then he says noon now. So we've jumped three hours and this was after 20 seconds of blank audio that was never, never.
Where they were telling him what to say.
Exactly. Correct. About noon. OK, was it after school?
Had let out? One of these other boys? He said 9 a.m. and then he said noon.
In what world is that after school got out?
Right. Are you kidding me? He's leaving him.
And then Jesse's like... Yeah. He's leading him closer and closer to the actual time.
Exactly. Because he starts out at nine. He's like, whew, we got some work to do to get to the real time.
So let's just keep on trucking. They skipped school.
They skipped school. They was going to catch their buzzer stuff, and they was on their bikes, so...
Now, did you say the boys skipped school that day?
These little boys did? They was going somewhere and Like I said, Damien and them left before I did.
I thought I might meet them there. Nope, all three were accounted for at school.
Good try, though. If I had to get ready and stuff, I'd meet them there.
It was early in the morning, so they wouldn't have met me up.
They wouldn't have. Went up there and then I came up, you know, laying behind them.
What time did you get there? I got there about 9.
In the morning? Mm-hmm. Of Wednesday morning?
Mm-hmm. And when... What time is it right now?
Right now? Yeah. You don't know what time it is?
Do you not wear a watch? So, your time period... might not be exactly right what you're saying.
It was like early in the day, but you don't know exactly what time.
Okay. Because I've got some real confusion with the times you're telling me.
But this 9 o'clock in the evening call that you've got.
Explain that to me. Well, after all the stuff happened that night that they'd done it, I went home.
About noon, then they call me. At nine o'clock at night, they call me.
Okay. And what did they tell you on the telephone?
They asked me how come I left so early and stuff.
And I told them I couldn't stand there watching it no more, so.
I had to do something to get out of there.
He just said noon and now he's back to nine.
Are we seeing that this didn't actually occur?
Gitchell's like, please just tell me that you were there at 6 p.m.
Oh, don't worry. He gets to that. Eventually he asks him if he wears a watch.
And when Jesse says he usually does, but that it's at his house right now.
And he's like, I do know how to tell time.
He tells them that's when Gitchell and Ridge are like, maybe you have the times messed up.
He's like, yeah, you know, 9am and 6pm are pretty similar.
It seems to me it would be hard to mix up 9am, noon, and evening, but...
Who am I to judge? I'm not the West Memphis PD Brain Trust, am I?
So we all, we're just all on a different level here.
Several times Jesse states that the boy's legs were free.
And when Ridge and Gitchell try to sway him to say their legs were tied.
They say, quote, well, then what was stopping them from running away?
And he responded, quote, they could run.
They couldn't. They were hogtied. Right.
He also said that the way that Christopher Byers was killed was he was choked.
First he said with someone's hands, then he said with a stick.
The Emmy said that no choking was apparent on him in any way.
And if it was with a stick, you would definitely notice it.
And they determined that he died of blood loss.
So that wasn't a thing. That hurts my heart.
I know, it's awful. So also when asked when he received a phone call after he said 9 p.m. that night.
So after all this, they're like, so when did they call you again?
He says 9 p.m. Now they ask him again when he has just said noon and at the latest was when he left the woods.
And he says you went home. How long after you got home before you received the phone call?
30 minutes? An hour? An hour. An hour after you got home?
So they're like, okay, so when did they call you after you left the woods?
Yeah. And he's like, and then they don't wait for him to answer.
They go a half hour, an hour. So he has two choices here.
First, he says they called him at 9pm that night.
Yeah. And they're like, that wasn't right.
So they were like, oh, was it a half hour or an hour after you left the woods at noon?
Right. So he's like, so those are his two choices.
They give him two choices. You can't come up with something else.
So he chooses, he says, an hour. Uh-huh.
So he has been questioned for over six hours and 34 minutes were recorded.
Oh, you know how that happens. That makes sense.
So then there's a break. And Gitchell decides he needs to clear some things up.
And he questions Jesse alone. Mm hmm. Perfect.
Now, remember, Jesse has just stated it was morning.
Everyone skipped school and noon at the latest.
Now suddenly the tape switch is on. And Gitchell asks, what time?
And Jesse, without hesitation, said, quote, I would say it was about five or so, five or six.
Oh, my God. Yeah, that's probably real. Then Gitchell says, quote, you told me earlier it was seven or eight.
And he said, yeah, it was seven or eight.
When you got with the boys and with Jason and Baldwin, when you three were in the woods and then the little boys come up.
About what time was it when the boys came up to the woods?
I saw him about five or so, five or six.
Now, did you have your watch on at the time?
You didn't have your watch on? No. You told me earlier it was around 7 or 8.
Which time is it? It's 7 or 8. It's starting to get dark.
Okay, well that clears it up. I didn't know.
That's what I was wondering. Was it getting dark or?
Oh, so Gitchell's literally like, dude, I told you seven or eight.
Like, he's like, you're supposed to say this.
And he's like, yeah, I said that. Right.
So the boys were tied with white and black shoelaces out of their own shoes.
When asked again what they were tied with, Jesse says rope again.
He also, when they asked what color, he says brown. yeah none of those things are remotely true right and these are things that it's not like little details that he just would have missed if These are blatant, huge things that he would have seen if he was there.
Right, but he wasn't. But he wasn't there.
So he's just using, like, assumptions. Yeah.
Now, when he talks about it later, he says that he realized that whenever he would answer how they wanted him to, they were nice to him and it was easier for him.
But when he didn't answer correctly, they screamed at him.
So he just tried to answer how they wanted him to.
He said they were obviously giving him clues about what to say.
So he tried really hard to take them, take the clues.
But sometimes he said it was just hard to figure out what they wanted him to say.
And mind you, at the end of this, he thought his dad was getting $35,000.
So he was like, I'll say anything. Oh, 100%.
And he said, quote, I figured they knew I was lying from the get go because the police, they knew me.
They knew me for a long time. They knew I wasn't that type of person to go killing little kids.
I figured they knew I was lying because they was lying too.
He was put in a holding cell without telling him that he was now implicated by his own words. in the murder of three eight-year-old boys.
And he thought he was just going home. So he said, quote, I figured they knew I needed a ride home but my dad never did show up.
Oh my god, my fucking heart. Like, that's really fucked up that they can do that to someone.
They can't fucking do that. Now, once they were done, Deputy Prosecutor Fogelman, I say it like that, immediately went before Judge Rainey to ask for a warrant to arrest Damien and Jason. uh the reason for arresting jason was because he hung out with damien oh yeah you know that's it like literally when he asked the judge he was like will they hang out together They typically arrest all murderers.
So Jason literally was guilty by association.
Like that's straight up fucked up. That's the definition.
Jason said he was just in shock. He said he kept trying to tell them...
He was at school that day and they kept saying they knew he was lying.
And once one of them said, you mean if we go get your school records, they'll show you were there.
And he said, yes, get them. Oh, my God.
And it would have shown he was there. Right.
His mother was not contacted. An attorney was not offered or given and no recording of his questioning exists. perfect which is totally by the book right right the next morning june 4th 1993 so this is So what happened was when I started this episode, I told you what happened when they got arrested.
Right. This is... at that point they got arrested okay so now they've been arraigned they've been charged with capital murder yeah based on jesse's very lead confession So the next morning, June 4th, 1993, Gary Gitchell made a statement that shows exactly where this police department's motives were.
He called the media out for a press conference and every station came.
There were live feeds. They were breaking into programming because this was huge. so he said the suspects were in custody but wouldn't give any real answers to reporters questions because he didn't fucking have any right so then a reporter asks On a scale of 1 to 10, how solid do you feel your case is?
And with a big grin, he says... So he got his applause and his pat on the back.
Like you're cheering for a bozo. Yeah, but people... And it's like, I get why people were so supportive of this and were so into...
These police officers doing their jobs and they caught these fucking monsters that killed these poor little boys.
No, I get that. But they didn't. Nope. They didn't do their jobs at all.
Like, this is so far from doing your job.
And Gitchell later said he shouldn't have said that.
Oh, wow. And he says, not because I didn't think it was a solid case.
Because to this day, he's going to hang on to that.
Sure. Of course. Because it's like the biggest case of his career.
He went out with a bang. Right. But. He says it was very arrogant and presumptive of him to say 11 because it put even more pressure on them to convict them.
Exactly. Which is like... You didn't think of that?
That if you say 11, people are going to assume this is a slam dunk the funk in... in court and you're just gonna win i don't know if anyone caught that five reference but like hey my oldies wow um but you see what i work with People are going to assume that you will easily convict them.
Of course. And they knew they had nothing and that this was actually going to be hard to do.
He can't even answer a question. No. But he's like, I feel like it's at 11.
11. You're a dumbass. Oh, Gary. Pissed. This episode has subsequently pissed me off.
Yeah, it's very frustrating. But that's going to be the end of part two because we are already at like an hour and a half.
I hope you enjoyed your drive to work and back.
Exactly. I never said brevity was my strong suit.
If you come to our live shows, you know that.
I'm always looking at the clock like, motherfucker, this bitch is going over.
I'm always like, I'm gonna close the venue.
I'm gonna close. I'm like, we're not going to be able to get to the meet and greet.
And I go, the meet and greet. I always go in there thinking like, oh man, what if I can't even make it like an hour through this? yeah right she always says that too and i just i blankly stare i'm always knocking on two hours door and being like shit i need to wrap this up and i'm like well We're going to leave you on a cliffhanger because it's closed.
Because the venue wants us to leave. The city has shut down.
So that's the end of part two. Part three, we are going to get into the trial, which was a fucking circus.
And we're going to talk about some theories of who could have possibly done it.
Talk about John Mark Byers, because I'm sure everybody wants to hear about that dude.
He's an interesting character. and his change of heart.
I know Pam Hobbs, Stevie Branch's mom also had a change of heart.
So we'll definitely get into that and feel free to have respectful. nice discussions about this on any of the you know the instagram or twitter or wherever you would like facebook But again, keep it respectful.
We can all have different opinions, but like, look at the facts, guys.
Check those facts out. do your research you know whatever we like to hear what you guys have to say so hope you enjoyed this And head on over to visit us at Instagram.
At Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter.
At Amorbid Podcast. Send us a nice Gmail. do it morbid podcast at gmail.com join the fucking facebook group morbid colon a true crime podcast facebook group we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but that's where their name is vicky and you live in a trailer where you start to have set up all the books to make people feel comfortable even though you don't even read those books and you say that you drove out there but you it really didn't drive out there.
And then you turn into this police officer guy Feeding this poor innocent child all these wrong things.
Don't keep it that weird. It's so wrong.
Bye. Bye. Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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