Hi guys, welcome back to Speaking Canadian with Nick.
A podcast for learning English with ease, without stress and through interesting and authentic content that you can understand for the most part.
Which, of course, is an essential element of the language learning process because, in order for content to be comprehensible, you have to understand the majority of what I say to you.
Not everything, of course, because once you hit a certain level of comprehension, once you achieve a certain level of understanding of a language, your brain will contextualize what you don't understand.
So I would aim for at least 60%.
If you can already understand 60 of what I say in these podcasts, you're doing great, especially in these interview-style podcasts, which are particularly difficult because even native speakers have difficulty articulating sometimes when it comes to talking about complex subjects that maybe we're not experts on.
But fortunately, today we have someone who's very articulate and who's very passionate about what I'm interviewing her on.
So that helps, of course, in terms of comprehension.
But generally interviews are more difficult and that's why I want to include more of them in my podcast, because I think they're important.
In today's episode we're continuing the interview with Sylvia Gabriel about language learning, cultural exploration, why she learns languages and why those languages in particular?
Because, of course, it's important also to know why you're dedicating so much time to a given language or, really in life, a given activity, because we all have limited time in our day and there are lots of other things that could potentially take the priority over a language.
But today, as I mentioned at the end of the previous episode, we'll be talking more about her travels and work-related ambitions and how foreign languages play a role in her life and how she intends to use them in the future in her work, as she's an upcoming university student who's taking a language-related major.
We will also touch on language teaching and how we can improve the language education system in North America, which I find particularly important and interesting to talk about, because I feel like it's not as discussed as it should be, or if it is.
Not a lot of changes are being made, which is unfortunate.
So I'm always more than happy to draw some attention to much needed topics like that one.
I will mention as well that, based on the feedback that I've gotten so far which I thank all you guys for, for all the great messages that I've received since starting this podcast, I got one comment in particular that really struck me.
Nick, I like how you want to combine interesting and controversial topics into learning.
I think it's a great idea, but there's so much content available on YouTube or Netflix that is way more professionally done and much more interesting to watch and listen to.
And he's totally right.
I totally agree with that comment.
My goal with this podcast is to get you up to a level where you understand content made for native speakers without too much difficulty.
But I'm well aware that there's already a ton of content out there that is qualitatively better and more captivating, because YouTube is a world, literally a haven of amazing content, and a lot of which has English subtitles, which is fantastic.
So I intend to make this podcast more practical by focusing in on the aspects of the language, like English, and what you need to know in order to understand the content that we all love and the interactions that we all want to be able to navigate with ease in real life.
So that'll be my objective from now on.
Anyway, without further ado, let's pick up where we left off with this interview.
Let's get started.
So now I want to talk a little bit about your travels, because I was amazed, while preparing this interview, by the vastness of countries that you visited in terms of how different they all are culturally.
So my first question is, what was your experience traveling to the Middle East as a woman?
And I mentioned this because I mentioned this with the hope of encouraging more women to travel without fear, because I know that, regardless of statistics, many women are apprehensive about traveling to the Middle East due to cultural differences and stereotypes, some of which, from my understanding, are totally legitimate.
So what was your experience with this?
Yeah.
So this is a question.
I get a lot, you know, from my friends too, from the people I meet, when they hear that I travel to Jordan.
So yeah, I spent about three weeks last summer in Jordan studying Arabic.
So I'm by no means an expert, you know, I don't think there's many...
Women who have lived there for much longer than me who have moved there.
But I do have a little bit of experience.
You know, the very first thing I'd say is that personally, I think the Middle East is one of the most misunderstood in North America.
You know, even because I live in a very liberal and progressive area.
And so...
I would say all of my friends are very accepting of different religions and cultures and everything.
But even so, many people still tend to sort of hold these stereotypes or these beliefs.
But I don't blame them, because I don't think they even realize that they have them.
Just about, you know, maybe what the Middle East is like.
So I think that in North America we tend to view the entire Middle East as sort of one thing, and that it's all the same.
And you know, the most extreme view of that is that it's all very conservative and maybe all sort of like Saudi Arabian government everywhere right, um?
And the thing i say to that is that you know, each country is so different and unique and really has its own culture.
You know, if you're i mean, if you're talking about the arab world, from morocco to iraq is so different, and even countries right next to each other like saudi arabia and jordan are completely different.
So that's the first thing i say is that You know your experience traveling in Saudi Arabia as a woman is going to be very different from your experience traveling in Jordan as a woman.
And I have never traveled to Saudi Arabia, so I don't want to say too much about what that would be like.
I know women have and have had fine experiences.
But you know, when I'm in Jordan and, like the people even say things about different Arab countries, about the laws there that they don't agree with.
You know, and I also work with Syrians here in the US and you know, they say things about the differences between their country and between and this is in Saudi Arabia as an example.
I'm not trying to say it's all like this, that everyone there thinks this way, but maybe more of the government or the In Jordan or Syria in the past.
Also, like you know, women are free to cover themselves or not.
Or you know, I would say that even within the Middle East, there's wide range of beliefs and that many Arabs do not agree with each other and they have very different views from each other.
And some Arab views are actually probably more similar to ours on certain issues.
So to lump them all together is very, I think dangerous, because it's not like.
Jordan is a completely different country.
So okay, another thing I try to say is that, you know, when I'm walking down the street in Jordan, in Amman, the capital, I tend to notice I don't know, I want to say like 10 maybe of the women I notice We're not wearing hijabs.
And that has surprised a lot of people, you know, because they have this idea that everyone is required or something.
And, you know, the Queen of Jordan doesn't wear hijabs.
So it's clearly not any sort of requirement.
I say this because it surprises a lot of people and I think sort of helps them to change how they view things.
Mm-hmm.
Of course.
Mm-hmm.
Traveling in Jordan alone.
I was with a program but I went to the country alone and most of the time I was with someone else just walking around downtown.
But there were times when I was walking by myself, and personally, I had no bad experiences.
I felt safe the whole time.
So yeah, I mean, just personally, I was completely fine, and yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that more than anything, it's in a North American kind of mentality that you know, it's very easy to just lump people together and assume that they are all the same.
So you said that you spent time in Amman, Jordan to learn Arabic.
And how did your language learning experience differ from say, a Spanish class in the US, for example?
Like any advantages or disadvantages of going to the country and learning versus North American style in-class learning.
Yeah, I mean obviously, when you're in the country you're completely immersed in the language, so that helps that you're not only in class, but you then also get to speak it all the time with everyone around you.
You're reading signs, you're... just constantly using it and exposed to it.
I mean, it also depends on your class.
It's just how motivated everyone is around you.
So I find in a lot of language classes in the US or in North America that lots of people are maybe not so interested in their class or not so motivated.
And, you know, when you're in, I'm with that just like language institute in Jordan, and everyone there has traveled to jordan to learn arabic.
So they're clearly pretty motivated students who you know.
So it's just a lot of people who i could get along with, who i had a lot in common with, just like that constant immersion is really um, it's really different from you know, just one hour a few times a week.
Yeah, i would argue that it really makes a difference too in terms of uh, getting motivated too, because once you get there, it's just like entering a whole different realm.
Like you're like, okay, now the language, I can see why the language is important.
It's something that often language learners forget, I think, is that when you're in your home country for so long, especially in the North American context, when there's no other languages necessarily around you, that it almost seems irrelevant to want to expand that aspect of your thinking and widen your horizons that way.
Um, so yeah advantages, you could say, would be like just being in an immersive environment, versus something that's kind of more artificial uh, in terms of spanish class in the us or in north america.
Yeah, i would also say uh, you bring up sort of a good point, and i think in north america we're very it's very english dominated right, so we have Yes, especially in the US.
We have a lot of immigrants who speak Spanish, particularly in certain areas, although I live more in the north.
And then, of course, there's some French in Canada.
But you know, if you don't live near French-speaking Canada sort of, you're basically just surrounded by English.
And you know, in Europe or something, there's countries where, but so much smaller, that you're never that far away from a country that speaks another language and has another culture.
So um, I think that that is maybe in Europe sort of like a motivator of to learn different languages is.
You know well, I can just travel a few hours and then use this language.
Um, Whereas in North America, sometimes I think we can feel more removed.
And I think that's true in Europe and lots of other parts of the world.
In South Asia, there are just so many languages.
In Southeast Asia.
But yeah, in North America, I think, sometimes I at least feel a little just completely surrounded by English.
So to go to an immersive environment.
You really see okay, here's a place where people use another language and have another culture.
Yeah, and it's really stimulating too.
I found that when i was in italy.
When i got there and i got off the plane after having learned it for like two years or so and i was pretty comfortable at that point, i was ready to use it, but then when it came to speaking like first couple days, i was like oh, this is uh like, what did i do to myself here?
This is just like disaster.
But You know, I got better over my time there and it was just really enjoyable and I'm really glad that I like I don't regret a second that I spent learning the language before I went, because it made the experience so much more interesting.
And yeah, I wanted to ask you before.
I want to talk a little bit about Canada, because I know that when I was preparing this episode actually before that I didn't know that you've been to Canada.
But first I want to ask you, because it kind of ties into what we were talking about How do you feel when you go to a country whose language you don't speak?
I mean I go into a country where I'm learning that language or I speak it, and I mean it's so much more interesting to me.
I enjoy it so much more because...
I mean also, just as someone who loves languages, to constantly be surrounded by native and language practice makes me super excited and happy.
So I say this a lot to my friends that you know, the language I'm surrounded by actually really makes a big difference in just how I feel and just my mood.
I think, just because I love languages so much and so to have that, I think It can be also draining to constantly be surrounded by a language that you really have to work to speak.
But it's something that really excites me and that I see as an exciting challenge.
So when I'm traveling to a country where I speak that language, I'm very excited.
I'm just so excited to go and get to use my language as I get that practice.
Exactly.
And also just because I think I'll be able to make...
I'll be able to have deeper conversations, you know, especially with so many languages.
Natives are just so happy that you're learning the language, which makes me so happy.
You know that someone is.
You know that I put all this work into this language and that they are so happy about that.
It really just makes me feel appreciated and sometimes I actually feel kind of sad about that for English language learners.
But
Yeah.
That's so true.
Yeah.
But so I feel bad for them that they don't get this huge excitement that someone is learning their native language, because you know, especially with Arabic and Bengali, people are just so excited and it makes me so happy.
And then, in terms of going to a country where I don't really speak that language honestly, I don't know how much i've done that.
I feel like most of the countries i've traveled to have been languages that i'm learning and honestly, if i'm planning to travel somewhere where i don't speak the language, then i immediately want to start learning it.
So um, for example, i was, i was supposed to go to italy this spring, which did not happen because of 2020 um corona, but I knew that months ahead of time.
So I decided, sort of in like September and October, to start learning Italian because, like I said, I think it would just be the way I see it is.
You know, I can go to the country without knowing any of the language.
And in that case it's just this complete opportunity to practice my language once, whereas if I've been learning the language for a few months ahead of time when I go, it's an opportunity to practice exactly.
And I think I honestly haven't really done that so much.
Where I go to a country where I'm not learning the language yeah, I'm honestly the same way too, because it totally throws off my language learning plans.
I'll tell myself okay, I'm gonna learn this language till you know, this month, and then like, I think about a trip that I want to do.
My, that sounds nice.
Maybe I should start planning for that.
Well, what I can tell you with Italian is that if you ever plan to go, I would definitely recommend learning the language.
It's not that Italians speak the worst English I've ever heard.
It's just that it definitely I think that when you don't speak the language of the country that you go to, it's almost like every interaction that you have is like kind of a struggle.
So it's almost like you associate those moments of just struggling to communicate with people as kind of being not pleasurable.
You know what I mean?
Like not very pleasant.
So, And yeah, the way I see it, as you know especially, I feel like the whole world puts in an effort to learn English, my native language.
So every time I speak with someone whose native language is not English, I was speaking in English.
I try to be very aware of.
You know, they put effort time, maybe money, they're working to make this communication happen and i put nothing in.
So i really just feel like, especially as a native english speaker, i sort of have this responsibility to at least try to do something to use that communication, even if we end up speaking mostly in english.
I think it's really important that i show that I care and that I appreciate the work that they put in and that I want to try to do something too.
Exactly.
And that's a great quality to have as a teacher especially, I think, is to be really empathetic and understand.
You know, if you were in that situation, you had to learn English.
You know being say, a native speaker of an Indian language like it is not easy by any means.
But I didn't know before preparing this episode that you've been to Canada.
So what places did you visit when you were here, and what was your impression of Canadians?
Yeah, so actually, I lived in Canada for three and a half years.
No way.
Yeah.
I was very young, so I was born in New York and then, when I was six months old, my family moved to Toronto and I lived there until I was four.
Yeah, I mean, I was very young, but I still actually live very close to the Canadian border.
It's only like an hour from my house.
Same.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
And we still you know from the time that we lived in Toronto we still have a lot of friends who live there like family friends.
I even have some friends who are like my friends when I was very young, who you know.
I don't keep up with them so much.
But when we visit, then I hang out with them and I see them and their families.
So I feel like we've gone back and visited Toronto once.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I felt like it sort of had this small town vibe and feeling, because the beaches was a little bit outside of downtown.
So it was like a small town or a small community, but with all the resources of a big city.
Plus it was right on Lake Ontario.
So there was also a beach.
So just amazing.
That's so weird too, because like I literally live two hours from Toronto.
If you ever come down and you're visiting, we should definitely hang out because, like I, go there sometimes.
I have a friend in Toronto I visit sometimes.
I gotta say, I really do love the city.
I think that it's for a North American city that I assumed would be really typical before I got there and really had a chance to explore it.
I was actually surprised by the diversity and just like, yeah, it's a cool vibe.
I like Toronto.
Yeah, I actually like My family, the plan I was supposed to be raised in Toronto and live there and then lots of complicated visa stuff.
We ended up in the US.
But, yeah, my brother is a Canadian citizen because he was born there.
Yeah, I mean, Toronto is super diverse, like you said.
Like there's this little street called like Little India, which I always visit when I go, and even the little parts of like Little Bangladesh, so I get to speak some Bengali.
That's cute.
Yeah, and then also I've been to Montreal one or two times probably in all, like all in all I've spent like a week there, so not too much, but just passing through.
Especially when we drive to the East Coast, we'll often drive through Toronto and then stop in Montreal, so gotten a little bit of that too, although I don't speak French no, so it's kind of that uh, that thing we were talking about, about going to a country or region that you don't speak the language, but in Montreal it's pretty much a safety net of English because everyone there is extremely bilingual.
It's crazy actually, being someone who hasn't had that much experience going to countries where there's a lot of languages spoken like I've been to France and Italy and England, but in terms of, like there being more than one native language
For me when I go to Quebec.
It's interesting to see the code switching that happens and stuff like that.
Yeah.
What was your experience like in Montreal?
Like you said, you were just passing through more or less a couple times.
Did you explore the city very much?
Yeah.
I've stopped in sort of, I think it's called Old Montreal.
Yeah.
Yeah, like a few times.
So that's where I think I really come home most of the time.
There was one time where I sent like three days there and then i was in another area i don't know where it was exactly, but yeah, like the bilingualness of the city, i think it's super cool.
Um, you know, like every time we would walk into a shop they would say hello bonjour, and then, whatever we give to them, they would start speaking that to us.
Yeah, but yeah actually, actually the fact that Montreal and that there's like French speaking Canada actually makes me even more interested in French.
I'm like I'm not learning French right now and I'm not like particularly interested in France, just personally but um, you know, the fact that it's also spoken so close to where I live and in like different countries like Morocco and stuff, makes me feel like I was being useful in quote language.
That is very true.
And I found from my personal experience too, is that after I learned a couple languages that were like European and like Western European languages, like Italian and French, I found that the appeal kind of wore off a little bit.
I was like, I want to explore something a little bit more exotic, you know what I mean?
Like, because it almost just seems like a different version of the same language.
It's, like, in almost the same culture.
Definitely.
I would say my interests are definitely more focused.
I would think only in Arabic and stuff.
And then my interest in German is much more because I am German.
It's less like, oh, I want to learn about Germany and stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, now I want to talk a little bit before we cut this off because we're going on an hour here.
I don't want to take up too much of your time.
So I want to talk a little bit about your future work and academic ambitions because...
Like many young people, it's something that's both daunting and exciting and plays a major role in growing up in North America.
So, tell us, Sylvia, are you in school right now, and how did you decide what you wanted to study?
So I just graduated high school this year and I'm taking a gap year, partly because I've always wanted to do that and I want to travel, and partly because this is not the best year to be entering university with.
All the changes and stuff with Corona.
Tell me about it.
So, yeah, I'm taking a gap year.
And then after that, I'm going to Stanford next fall.
Very cool.
Very cool.
And you're going to take something language-related, like linguistics or something, I believe?
Yeah, as of right now, I mean, who knows?
It could change.
But I want to double major in linguistics and international relations.
And then...
Yeah, I've talked a lot about language learning and culture, but I'm also very, very interested in more of the nitty-gritty academic linguistic side as well.
And then international relations, because I am obviously interested in language policy and I work with refugees.
I'm very interested in the work of refugees and that policy as well, and different cultures and cross-cultural issues.
Yeah, I think that's a really good idea.
Actually, someone told me recently that in Canada anyways, if you take a major and a minor, the minor doesn't actually show up on your diploma at the end.
So basically you should just put in the extra work and effort and just do a double major or just stick with one major.
Yeah, I'm considering...
Honestly, if a Bengali minor existed, I would definitely take that, but it doesn't, so I'll probably minor in Arabic.
But yeah, we'll see.
That sounds very exciting and I think that's a really good combination too honestly, because I'm studying modern languages and cultures.
I'm taking Italian and Spanish because those are the languages that Like of the countries that I want to live in, ideally in the future, or maybe
Yeah.
But I think that yours is definitely more lucrative.
There's definitely more opportunities in terms of working internationally.
I mean, big opportunities either way.
You'll find what you want to do.
But, hey, it's not a competition.
I mean, if I'm unemployed by the age of 30, then that's just so be it, right?
That's the way it is.
So big.
What about the North American language learning curriculum?
Would you change?
And as a result, what aspect would then be added to the system that currently doesn't exist?
So I really, when I think of language learning, I see speaking or, in the case of sign language, is signing as language sort of the most fundamental aspects.
You know, when people are talking about wanting to learn a language, the vast majority of the time what they're talking about is they want to speak that language well, understand people speaking it, be able to travel in the country, watch movies, stuff like that.
But then you look at our language curriculum and the vast majority of the time is spent on things like reading and writing and grammar exercises, which are honestly important.
But I find that there's almost no speaking.
And I don't know.
How do people expect to be able to speak a language if they've never practiced speaking it?
So I think maybe in college and university, the curriculum is a little better.
There's more speaking.
In my experience, especially in high school and middle school, there's almost no focus on that, and you know I can say this as someone who, that you know, has been learning German literally since first grade and still does not speak it fluently.
And the part that I what made me feel more confident in German was not that schooling and also having learned Spanish for years and years of school, and you know how do you spend that many years on a language, learning it and still not be able to speak it.
And you know I look at our.
You know we're expected to graduate high school with a very high level of math.
When I look at what I'm doing in my calculus class, like, it's just such this high level of math.
And I think, how do I need to know that to graduate?
But then to graduate from language class, I can, you barely need to be able to know anything.
And I talk with so many people who say I took French for four years in high school or I took Spanish for four years in high school, and I say, oh great, what can you say in French?
And then they're like
Ooh, I don't like speaking it.
They say, like... Exactly.
Like, hola, me llamo Sylvia.
And that's all they can say.
And I think... And I don't blame anyone because, you know, that's the curriculum.
It's not their fault how they were taught.
But I would really just like to see a lot more emphasis on speaking and using the language in an interactive way that you enjoy, so that you're motivated to continue.
So, And you know, I have friends from Europe who also have taken language classes and who become basically fluent in English and get a very high level in another language.
So I know it's possible that you can learn a language in school and get to a very high level um, and also, like i had language classes since first grade, but a lot of people don't start languages until middle school or high school, which you know, the younger you start a language, the better and the easier, so i also think we should be implementing it as early as possible.
Yeah, i totally agree, and i think that it's really counterproductive to focus so much on memorizing and, you know, looking for the precision and language learning when you haven't developed a basis like a basic understanding of how the language works by seeing how it works, observing other people speaking it and imitating.
I think is really important, especially when you're really young and your brain is, you know, ready for that kind of like is made for that kind of environment.
Uh, I think that a lot more emphasis, like you said yeah, obviously on speaking and just making the process enjoyable.
Um, I couldn't agree more.
Like, we need to do something about that.
It's a problem.
And what has, like, teaching English taught you about yourself, other people in the world?
Yeah, I think it's really cool because you worked a lot in this too, obviously with this podcast and teaching English.
I started teaching English because, you know, like I mentioned, my big knowledge teacher basically offered to teach me for free.
And I thought, you know, I have all these people teaching me their languages and I want to sort of give back.
And the way I can give back is by teaching English, which is what I know natively.
So I found this family in my town who had moved here from Syria like a year ago and was looking for more English help.
So that's how I really got started teaching English, was by teaching them.
I really just, you know, it really makes you, when you have to teach your native language, you really have to look into it and you have to look into why your language does certain things and you realize that weird idiosyncrasies of your native language.
So it really, I mean it gave me an appreciation for all the people who are learning English and how difficult it can be.
Yeah, I mean it's been really great to just because I try to bring, like I was talking about earlier, some of that enthusiasm for people who want to learn my native language, whether that's because they need it for work, for life or or just because they're interested in it and the culture I try to bring some of that enthusiasm and say, you know, like I'm so grateful that you're learning this.
I see all the effort you're putting in, and yeah.
Exactly, and I think too that it's unfortunate that the English teaching market has become so saturated that I think that a lot of teachers that maybe aren't so prepared or don't really aren't that interested in the language itself and are just trying to make a buck, you know, are not like they're kind of taking for granted the fact that there is such a huge market.
There's just such a need for English teachers and for English instruction that they just kind of, you know, half-ass it.
And, yeah, like, basically, they aren't super enthusiastic about teaching the native language.
It's more just, like, the monetary gain that they get from doing so, which I think is unfortunate.
Yeah.
I can tell that you're a very good teacher, and you're on italki, if I'm not mistaken, right?
Yes, I am.
Okay, I'll definitely link your profile in the description here.
Well, that was it for today.
Thank you so much, Sylvia, for consenting to this interview.
It was really fun, exciting, and interesting.
Yes, thank you so much.
I had a great time.
I hope I didn't ramble on no perfect, perfect amount of rambling, and where can those listening find you like to say, like instagram?
I think it's curious linguist, right?
Yeah, i'm on instagram at the curious linguist um, i also have a blog where um, i write a little bit about my language learning, but also especially, i teach bengali grammar.
So to any bengali learners out there um, and yeah, and then i'm Very cool.
And they can find that in the link in your bio, right?
On Instagram?
Yeah.
Awesome.
Okay.
Well, keep in touch.
I wish you the best in your life and language learning.
Yeah, you too.
Take care.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye.
And on that note, my friends, let's conclude this three-part interview series that I did with the great polyglot Sylvia Gabriel.
Thank you so much for making it to the end of this episode.
I hope that it was interesting to hear Sylvia and I's thoughts on the various topics that we discussed.
As always, I will leave a link in the description to my PayPal page, where you'll be able to give any donation of your choice, if you wish to do so.
Of course, you are not obliged.
And with any donation of more than $2 Canadian...
I will personally send you a full transcription of any episode of your choice, the only exclusion being the interviews, as I mentioned in the previous episode.
In fact, I'd like to take this time to talk to you guys a little bit about an idea that I had in mind for those of you that want to go above and beyond meaning to exceed a normal study routine of English and reach your goals of developing a strong understanding of English in record times.
I was thinking, for interviews like this and those to come, to offer you guys an additional transcription, along with a video in which I'll explain all the different expressions used in the interview, at a very affordable price that is yet to be determined, perhaps on PayPal or as a tier on Patreon, which is another donation site on which content creators like myself can offer exclusive content to you guys, my viewers or, in this case, my listeners, such as what I just described to you guys.
It's just an idea at this stage.
I must say that I have a lot on my plate at the moment.
But if it sounds interesting to you, if you feel like you could benefit from having the transcripts of these interview episodes along with an extra video describing in detail each expression and giving you examples of their usage and context, please let me know.
And if I see that lots of people would be interested in that kind of content, I would be more than happy to do that.
Thanks again for your time and support and we'll see you next time.
Bye-bye guys.
