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Elizabeth, you know that this year I am hosting Thanksgiving for the second time.
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Yeah, they have everything from low-price, quality turkey to pantry essentials and Gretchen.
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Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast that gives you strategies and tips for how to build happier habits into everyday life.
This week we'll talk about why you should raise your hand and why it's a good idea to suffer fools gladly.
I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, and human nature.
I am away from my home office.
I am in a pop-up studio in Kansas City where I am visiting my parents.
And joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft.
And Elizabeth, we wish you were here with us.
That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in L.A.
And Gretch, I see the guest room wallpaper behind you.
Yes, exactly.
Well, happy Thanksgiving to everyone who's getting ready to celebrate.
And I am also excited to reveal that I am having a big Black Friday sale on my Happiness Boosting Tools and the Happiness Project collection that is starting Friday, November 28th.
I can't say exactly what it is yet, but it will be the biggest sale that has ever been done.
Wow.
Yeah.
You can stock up on tools that help you, and also your gift recipients, to stay organized, productive and happier.
You can go to happiercast.com slash Black Friday for everything related to that.
Exciting.
Yes.
And this week, our Try This at Home suggestion is to raise your hand.
And what does this mean exactly?
Okay.
By raise your hand...
This is the idea that you have to accept, that you have to put up your hand, that you have to say yes, I'll do it, and that something is not going to happen if you don't raise your hand and decide that you're going to take the lead.
And this elicit is related to a whole series of things that we've been talking about, which is...
Have people over, entertain, show up, gather, go to things, buy tickets.
All these things are about stepping up, stepping forward and saying okay, it's going to be me who does it.
Yes.
And you recently did this, Gretchen, in a major way, for which I gave you many gold stars.
Yes.
I did do this in a major way.
And I will give myself a gold star because it was a big undertaking.
So this was on my 25 for 25 list, which is a good example of how putting something on your 25 for 25 list helps you follow through.
Because if it's on the yearly list, you just keep getting that reminder.
So I clerked on the Supreme Court for Justice O'Connor.
And The way that it works is that there will be reunions for people who clerk for the same justice.
So I've been to several reunions of people who clerked for Justice O'Connor.
But the fact is, when you're actually doing the work of being a clerk, there's only a handful of people who clerk for that justice with you.
There's either two or three others with you.
Or if you're clerking for retired justice, maybe you're the only one.
So for Justice O'Connor, there were four of us who clerked together in the same year.
But during that time, I worked with all the clerks from all the other chambers.
And those were like my colleagues.
Those were the people that I ate lunch with.
Those are the people that I sent emails to.
Those were the people who I saw in the hallways.
Those were the people who were working for the other justices.
And so it was a super intense experience.
But there was nothing that would bring us together because—
Our justice only has their own clerks.
They're not interested in the clerks of other chambers.
So it occurred to me well really, the people that I want to see are the people that I clerked with, that group of people, you know, 30-some people.
So I put up my hand and I just said, okay, I think I'm just going to do it.
And I had talked to a couple fellow clerks who were like, oh, that's a really good idea.
I would love it.
If you did it, I would come.
So I had encouragement.
And I got emails from people because, of course, one of the big things is getting people's emails.
But that ended up not being as hard as I expected.
That's good.
Because a lot of people also you can email them through their work.
You know, I could just Google them and say, OK, this person works here.
I'll just email them for their work.
And I had a list of everybody who had clerked.
And so I did it.
So, Gretchen, this was for a weekend reunion in D.C.
Tell us what the steps were.
Okay, well, the first step was, well, where was it going to be?
So I thought well, let's do it in Washington DC, because I know that everybody knows Washington DC and has some connection to Washington DC, because we all lived there at one point.
And I thought it would be fun if we did something at the court.
So I sent out an email to everybody saying, I'm considering planning this.
There are two dates.
Would you consider coming?
And if you would consider coming, is either one of these dates better or worse for you?
So a bunch of people emailed me and there was a clear winner of dates.
So then the question is, okay, what is it going to be?
And I thought, okay, it'll be a brunch and it'll be a dinner.
And then maybe we could do some tour or something as kind of an activity in the middle of the day.
So a friend of mine who was one of the clerks is the chief judge of one of the circuits.
And so he arranged for us to have a tour of the court.
There was an exhibit there that we could all go see.
And then I just asked around, got some recommendations, contacted a place for brunch and a place for dinner, tried to keep it inexpensive and casual, and then emailed everybody back and said okay, here's the brunch.
Here's the tour.
Here's the dinner.
Let me know.
Are you coming?
Would your spouse come?
And it was funny.
Everybody said, my spouse will come if other spouses come.
So I was like, well, that's a little bit of a chicken and the egg problem.
Jamie's going to come.
My husband's going to come.
So a lot of spouses did come.
And I thought, well, originally I had thought it would be Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
Then I realized that's too much.
Just one day.
And sent it out.
And...
A lot of people came.
They came from all over the country.
That's so exciting.
And then you were telling me that a lot of people, Friday night for instance, came in and would meet with their close friends, maybe who they clerked with.
Right.
So they could kind of do their own thing.
It wasn't all in the big group.
Right.
On Friday and then on Sunday, too.
So you had opportunities to sort of do your own thing.
Now, unfortunately, the shutdown happened, and so we weren't able to go on our tour.
So we went on a tour of President Lincoln's cottage instead, which was very interesting.
And a couple people couldn't come because their flights got canceled, which was really too bad.
The timing was bad in that way.
But nevertheless, a lot of people planned to come and did come.
And it was super fun.
It's kind of like your finale party.
It's just a reason to get together with people.
You all have something in common.
It's just fun to show up.
Yes, I recently went to a Survivor Fantasy League party which the funny thing, Gretchen is.
I thought the whole time it was a finale party.
It turns out it was just an episode of Survivor, which I realized that day.
So there may also be a finale party.
But yet gathering people together is so fun.
We gave all of us so many gold stars to this woman, Amanda, who planned the whole thing.
She raised her hand the way you raised your hand.
Yes.
And I was glad to hear you got a lot of gold stars and credit.
And I think that's kind of a side hack to this, which is...
If somebody else raises their hand for you and you get to go to something, make sure to give them credit and acknowledge what they've done, because that'll make them more likely to do it in the future.
Well, and also be considerate.
If they ask you to RSVP, RSVP right away.
If they ask you for specific information, answer that specific information.
If you're supposed to like send somebody money to pay them back, please do that right away.
I really appreciated people who made my job easier by just following instructions and doing it so that herding the cats wasn't too hard.
And when you're raising your hand, there's different kinds of groups that give you different kind of energy.
So this group is, was a bunch of people who, when they were young, had a very intense experience.
So this was almost like a college reunion, where you just felt this deep intimacy with people who had just been in your life a very long time.
And that's really one special kind of gathering.
And then what you did was an interest-related gathering where it's people who might not otherwise have much in common or maybe they do have things in common that they didn't even realize but they're brought together by an interest that they have now.
That's a different kind of group and a different kind of energy.
All are good.
It might be what appeals to you, what's in your life that you can take advantage of.
And I will say this.
It really made me want to do something like this again.
I really got energized from it, because when you're thinking about it you're like, oh my gosh, it's so much work.
It's going to be all these tasks and I have to keep doing this and I can't let too much time go by.
And it feels very onerous.
But then at the end, first of all, I had the fun of the event itself.
But then there is just this feeling of energizing reality.
Like I made this happen.
It was cool.
And I think a key to it in terms of being willing to raise your hand is to remember it doesn't mean you have to pay for the whole thing.
No.
You can raise your hand to organize, but not raise your hand to pay.
Yes.
Right.
Which is a big thing.
Which is a big thing.
And what I said to people is I will pay for it up front and then I'll divide up the cost and then I'll let you know what it is.
And I said I can't tell you what it is now, but I'm going to try to keep the cost low, very reasonable, because I couldn't figure it out until I knew how many people were going to show up and all that kind of thing.
But I made it very clear that I wasn't hosting this in terms of paying for everybody.
Yes.
So I do think that's a good reminder that there's hosting and then there's raising your hand to organize two different things.
And the fact is people appreciate it.
It's a happiness booster for you, the person doing it, and it's a happiness booster for the person going.
It can re-energize old relationships.
It can help People create new relationships.
I know, Elizabeth, you were saying with your thing, you had the opportunity to talk shop.
There were also Hollywood people like you.
So many good things can come from it, but somebody's got to raise their hand.
Yes, I need to make that a goal of mine for 2026, to raise my hand.
Yeah. both of us, to do it more because it's really worth doing.
Well, let us know if you do try this at home and how raising your hand works for you.
How have you raised your hand?
What have you done?
Do you have any tips for raising your hand?
Maybe we can get a whole bunch of tips for this how to make it easier, ideas for getting people together.
It is so powerful.
Let us know on Instagram, Threads, TikTok, Facebook.
Drop us an email at podcast at gretchenrubin.com.
Or as always, you can go to the show notes.
This is happiercast.com slash 562. everything related to this episode.
Coming up, we have a medication happiness hack.
But first, this break.
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Elizabeth.
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And, you know, I love personalized gifts.
Yes.
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Yes, I often find myself making mugs, custom mugs, but there's so many things you can make.
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Okay, Gretchen, we are back with this week's happiness hack.
It has to do with medication.
Yes.
So I was talking to somebody who was telling me about this and I realized what an amazingly good idea it was.
So let's say there's somebody in your life, or maybe it's you, and you take a lot of medication.
You want to make a medication sheet.
And that way, if somebody else needs to step in or help out or understand what the situation is, it's very easy, very clear.
And then also, if you're doing something like filling a weekly pill case, you know exactly what to do.
So here are some of the suggestions for making this really useful.
First of all, when you're making the sheet, you want to note the date, because people's medications tend to change over time and you want to make sure that you're always using the most recent one.
So you want to put the date on it and you want to change that date if you change anything on the list, so that anybody looking at it, including you, knows that it's up to date.
And this I would not have thought of.
But when the person told me this I realized what a good idea it was.
If you can, note what the medication is for.
Because often you don't remember what something's for.
Is this for blood pressure?
Is this a blood thinner?
Is this for hay fever?
Is this for anxiety?
What is it for?
And that way you kind of have a sense of what's being managed.
And then finally, if you're doing it for somebody again where there's a lot of medicine, put morning and evening or whatever medication other time periods you have.
What do you take in the morning?
Let's say you take Pill X twice a day, morning and evening.
So instead of saying in the morning, take this twice a day say, have a morning section and an evening section and have take X in the morning and then also in the evening, take X.
It's just easier to process it, because the thing about medication is it's really important to get it right, but it can get really confusing.
And so, having the sheet where it's just crystal clear and it's summarized on one page, you can be very certain that that you're doing the right thing.
If somebody else needs to come in and help you manage it, they know how to do it right.
Let's say you have to go to the doctor or the hospital, you have everything right there.
And obviously you want to say how much of something you want to take.
Just having all that information in one place turns out to be really, really handy.
It's one of those things that feels like kind of a pain to do it, but then once you have it, it's super helpful.
Yes, I need to do this, Gretchen, because I take seven pills a day.
So should I suddenly need help with organizing my pills or whatever, this would be very useful.
Also handy to have it typed out when you go to a new doctor.
Any kind of doctor, even if it's an eye doctor, is asking, well, what pills do you take?
And it would be very nice to just have this typed out.
So it's a good idea for many reasons.
Yeah.
And I'm sure people say, well, put it on your phone.
But I think it's also good to have the physical piece of paper because other people can't look in your notes app.
Yes.
Physical piece of paper.
If you're doing insurance and they're like, what medications do you take?
It's just handy to have it all just summed up for a lot of reasons.
Yeah.
Medication is wonderful, but it can be a hassle.
And this definitely makes it easier.
Absolutely.
Okay, and here's a know-yourself-better question.
Now, Elizabeth, this is something that's been occurring to me lately.
Do you ever hear someone discussed or describe someone by saying that they don't suffer, fools gladly?
Yes, of course.
I don't think that anybody would ever say of you, oh, Elizabeth doesn't suffer fools gladly.
And I think that's a good thing.
Yes, Gretchen, why?
Okay, I think and this is something that I've been noticing lately is that when someone says oh, that person doesn't suffer, fools gladly.
What they mean is I have noticed that that person is very impatient and has little tolerance for anyone that they perceive to be foolish or stupid or incompetent.
It's used to describe someone who's very direct or blunt or demanding.
It often is people who are kind of disdainful of other people that they don't respect.
And what that means is that people are picking up that you don't have a lot of respect for other people.
And that is not a good thing.
But what I've noticed is the funny thing about the phrase is that it's often used as if it is positive.
People will almost say with pride, well, you know me, I don't suffer fools gladly.
Or you'll say of somebody, well, my boss, he doesn't suffer fools gladly.
But it's not a good thing. in my observation.
Yes, I couldn't agree more.
I feel like it's a euphemism for saying somebody's a jerk, right?
If I hear that about somebody, my red flag meter goes up for sure.
Well see, this is good that you've realized this, because I had bought into the euphemism part of it, was thinking like that there was sort of a positive aspect to it.
But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that, no, you're right.
It's not a good sign.
And I got curious about like, well, where did this come from?
And it's a phrase from the Bible.
And the phrase is, for ye suffer fools gladly, seeing yourselves are wise.
So that's where it comes from.
But the way that it's used today, it's that you're giving the signal that You think a lot of people are fools and you don't put up with fools.
Yeah, it's funny Gretchen, because I'd love to know for people who are described this way, what other behavior do they show?
Like, I'm thinking of somebody who was often described this way.
He also one time threw his salad at the wall because it had the wrong dressing on it.
So what other behavior is this person exhibiting?
Yeah, but the thing is, any time that's said...
It's saying people are picking up on something in your attitude that means that you're disdainful.
And you know what it is?
It's used as a warning to others.
It's like, just so you know, he doesn't suffer fools gladly or she doesn't suffer fools gladly.
So know, when you walk into that room, what you might be in for without actually knowing.
Warning somebody because you don't want to be the person who's talked negatively about someone.
Right, right, right, right.
That's true.
But, you know, I do see people who pride themselves on it.
Absolutely.
No one likes to put up with people who do some things that make no sense or are completely arbitrary or are wildly incompetent.
That's true.
But this is a sign, I think, of a lack of respect.
Yes.
It's different from being somebody who offers constructive criticism, for instance.
Or has high standards.
Yes, they have high standards.
Yeah, if you said okay, this boss really has high standards, that would be different from this boss doesn't suffer fools gladly.
Agreed.
Yeah.
Agreed.
Well, I'm very curious if people agree.
This is just something that has occurred to me lately.
And Alyssa, it sounds like it rings true with you, but I'd be curious.
So listeners, what have you observed in others or in yourself about Suffering Fools Gladly?
Because I think some people do pride themselves on it.
So if you pride yourselves on it, how do you view this?
I would like to hear a lot of perspectives on it.
I think it's an interesting question.
Yes.
Okay, Gretch, coming up, I give myself a social media demerit.
But first, this break.
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Okay, Elizabeth, it is time for Demerits and Gold Stars.
And this week is an even-numbered demerit, which means it's your turn to talk demerit.
What is your demerit?
Okay, so Gretchen, on my 25 for 25 list.
I had that I wanted to post on Instagram every week, whether it be something personal or about the podcast or work.
And I
I've done the opposite.
Instead of posting every week and being consistent, I've totally stopped posting on Instagram.
I was thinking the other day, it's like it doesn't even exist.
I don't even think about Instagram.
I mean, yes, I still go and look and like things, but it never occurs to me to post something.
And this is not good.
So As your happiness bully, you were doing it at one point.
What do you think happened?
I think maybe part of it is that it felt like, in general, maybe people aren't posting as much.
So the bar to post seemed higher.
I don't know if that's just my perception or if it's reality.
It's actually true.
So I think, if I read the research correctly, 2022 marked the high point of people posting posting personal things on social media.
But increasingly, it's really professional content or whatever.
It's not people just doing...
Personal posts or individual posts?
So maybe I felt like there wasn't as much of a place for it because of that.
And then also and I'm sure this has a lot to do with it Gretchen Sarah and I started our sub stack last January.
I was actually during the wildfires.
Of course, that takes a lot of time and attention.
So I put my attention there as opposed to Instagram or Facebook posts.
Now, I'm still very active.
We have a Happier in Hollywood Facebook group and I post there a lot and comment there all the time.
So I'm doing that, but I'm just not posting on Instagram out of nowhere at all.
Well, it's interesting because I think if you had mindfully said to yourself, well—
I'm going to use my time and energy towards Substack, because this is a new outlet, and I'm going to do this instead.
And so I'm just going to move it over to this new place.
You wouldn't have this feeling of, oh, I let myself down.
But instead you were like, oh, I wanted to be doing both, which is just a great example of framing.
Because if you had framed it as, instead of A, I'm going to do B, you'd feel good because you've been 100 consistent on Substack.
But because you were like, I'm adding Substack.
And then you just couldn't keep it up.
Then you feel like, oh, you're letting yourself down.
Yes, but I do want to keep it up because, for instance, I would like people on Instagram to see my Substack to say hey, check this out on Substack this week.
I think it's the scheduling.
You always say, you know, put something on the schedule if you want it to happen.
I probably need to schedule it.
One thing I really do need to decide though, is am I going to put personal stuff like hey here, I am at dinner, or not?
And then if I am, I am.
And if I'm not, I'm not.
But instead, right now, I'm kind of in a limbo where I don't know what my intention is.
Yes.
And so I do nothing.
Well, that's analysis paralysis, which is something that questioners.
I often talk about it in relationship to questioners, but it's something that anybody can experience, which is, because you're not sure what to do, you do nothing.
Yes.
Is this right?
Is this wrong?
And it's hard to know.
And how to figure that out.
And so you hope that, and this happens every once in a while well, you'll run into somebody and they'll be like this is what you should do, and why.
And you think, well, that's absolutely convincing.
And then I'll start doing that.
But usually it's not a deus ex machina situation.
Even in who I follow, I have analysis paralysis.
I'm like, is this just me following friends or people I really admire?
Or is this me following everybody I know?
Or I don't have my mind set.
So maybe I just need to think it out and talk it out.
Well, and you're also thinking about your algorithm, I know, and you're trying to curate what you see.
And that adds a whole element to it too, which is how am I shaping my universe of content by what I'm picking?
And so that feels complicated as well.
Yes.
Since we started talking about curating the algorithm, Gretchen, I feel like I
Keep seeing that pop up, you know, in different places.
And I think 2026 is all about controlling your algorithm.
It really is like so important.
And I think everyone's going to be talking about how important it is.
Well, when I've been talking to people about how I feel like reading is having a moment which I really feel like people really are returning to reading,
Mm-hmm.
A lot of times what people say is when you're picking a book, you're picking what you read.
It's like the fun of going into a bookstore and browsing the shelves, or a friend giving you a book that they love and saying oh, you have to read this.
Or going to the library and choosing your stack.
You have this feeling of like, I'm reaching out for what I want. and putting it in my brain myself.
It's not something that's just being shoved in my face and catching my eye before I even really realize what's happening.
Yeah.
Although I will say that also happens with books through social media.
But you don't read the whole book.
You might see the cover like a recommendation of it, but you don't have the experience of reading the book.
Yes.
And I also, the good thing about reading is it's an escape from the algorithm.
You're not being inundated while reading.
You're just reading that piece of material.
You're not being inundated from every direction.
Right.
Having said all that, I still want to post on Instagram more.
Well, there's a lot of advantages to it.
It's a way to connect, for sure.
It has good things and bad things, like so many things in the world.
It's neither all good nor all bad.
Yep.
All right, Gretchen, what is your gold star this week?
Okay, this is so concrete.
And I've probably given this gold star before because it's something that's so important in my life, which is fingertipless gloves.
Can I just say I walk around all day long with fingertipless gloves and I always know when fall has come, because that's when I pull out my fingertipless gloves and I just have really cold hands and cold feet.
So that's why I love my electric foot warmer and that's why I love my fingertipless gloves.
I have an extra pair that I keep in my backpack so that if I'm traveling and somehow I forget to bring them or I lose one out of my pocket, I'm never without a pair.
Because otherwise, my hands are just miserably cold.
And I just love these.
They are something that every time I put them on, which is many times a day, because you have to take them off if you're washing your hands or eating something with my fingers or whatever.
Every time I put them on, I'm like, oh my gosh.
I love fingertipless gloves.
And I now know exactly what I want.
I want them to be thin, but I want them to be warm and they can't be itchy.
Sometimes they come and they sort of have, what's that called?
When like a pattern is woven into it.
I don't like that.
I like it when it's just smooth, close to my skin and not raised, but they make me so happy.
Well, I think you probably give this gold star every year Gretchen, because I do think every year you're freshly grateful for your fingertipless gloves.
Yes.
Question, do you have one of those rechargeable hand warmers?
I do.
And I like those too.
And sometimes I will hold those or put those in my pocket.
But the problem with that is you have to hold it.
And so you can't be typing.
Can't be writing.
You can't be writing.
And so it's great to warm up my hands, and I will do it if my hand gets really cold and I can't get it warmed up again.
But what I like about fingertipless gloves is I can be typing.
I can be drinking a mug of coffee.
I can be walking the dogs.
It's just a little bit of insulation on them.
It's kind of like my Uniqlo vest, which I wear all the time too, which I'll probably give a gold star to that.
It's just a layer of warmth that, for me, it just makes my everyday life more comfortable, because I'm just always hovering on the edge of being uncomfortably cold.
So just having something that's light and doesn't get in my way and yet just gives me a little bit of layer of warmth that's very serviceable, is really really important.
Yes.
Good to know what those little nagging things are that you can solve the problem.
Exactly.
Identify the problem and then you can solve it.
The resource for this week.
Okay, so I put together a gift guide to shopping for people that you barely know.
And you don't want to just give them a candle, which is, I mean, we all love a candle, but sometimes you want to bring a little bit more originality to the situation.
This guide has a lot of thoughtful easy, very safe ideas for people who are maybe trickier on your list.
And since Black Friday is coming up, It's the perfect time to check it out.
It's one of the five new guides that I put together, plus a set of tools to help you figure out exactly what your recipient will appreciate most.
This is super fun.
You can find all of it at happiercast.com slash happycast. gift giving.
One of the things is the gift appreciation guide, which I still think is such a fun quiz to take.
It's a quiz you take for figuring out what kind of gift people want.
You know, Elizabeth, I love a quiz.
And I love taking a quiz.
Yeah, and I love a gift guide.
And what are we reading?
Elizabeth, what are you reading?
I am catching up on War and Peace.
We are closing in, Elizabeth.
We are.
We're almost there.
We're getting close.
And I am reading Rules for Visiting by Jessica Frances Kane.
And that's it for this episode of Happier.
Remember to try this at home.
Raise your hand.
Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.
Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed, and everyone at Lemonada.
If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the perfect time.
Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or go to LemonadaPremium.com.
And if you like the show, tell others you know.
That's maybe my favorite rhyming reminder.
Until next week, I'm Elizabeth Kraft.
And I'm Gretchen Rubin.
Thanks for joining us.
Onward and upward.
So Elizabeth, I'm so happy that you had the brilliant idea that was brilliant and yet so obvious, which is let's just have a microphone and a ring light and a pop filter here in Kansas City.
We don't move it back and forth.
We just have it here when we need it.
It's so great.
Now the next question is going to be will mom let us leave the setup in what we find to be the best spot?
I doubt it.
She likes everything put away nicely.
It doesn't take that long to get it all out, though.
It is great.
From the Onward Project.
Hi, Gretchen, Craig Robinson, and my little sister Michelle here.
We host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson.
We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you.
You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes.
What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions?
Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you.
Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective.
So consider questions like this.
What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me?
Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me?
If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose?
And here's a question.
Would I like to have more time in solitude restorative solitude or would I like to have more time with friends?
You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier.
With greater self-knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values.
In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition.
For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson wherever you get podcasts.
You can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships, Kiki Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success, Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents, and so many more.
