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Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about strategies and solutions for making our lives happier healthier, more productive and more creative.
This week, we'll talk about why it's a good idea to ask for clarification.
And we share an ingenious solution from a listener about getting other people to make decisions about whether they want to keep certain items or donate those items.
I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, and human nature.
I am back in my little home office here in New York City.
Joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft.
But Elizabeth, we were just in Kansas City together so recently and so fun.
That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer living in L.A.
And yes, Gretchen, we had a three-day...
Stay in Kansas City.
We got a lot done, and we had a good time.
Yeah, and we got Winsteads twice.
That was a good visit.
Success.
Before we jump in, a few updates.
So my big news is that my new podcast with Lori Gottlieb you know, Lori Gottlieb wrote Maybe You Should Talk to Someone which was a huge bestseller.
She also had the podcast Dear Therapist.
So our new podcast, it's an advice podcast called Since You Asked, is now live.
It just went live.
It is so fun.
If you are trying to figure out what to do about a tricky question, you know, ask for advice.
If you love hearing advice and thinking about advice and coming up with your own response.
I just think there's something about the advice format that is just endlessly fascinating.
In our first episode, we dug into a classic dilemma, which is if a close friend is dating someone seriously and you don't think it's a good fit, there's no red flags or anything.
You just don't think it's a good fit.
Should you say something?
So we asked this question online because, you know, we hadn't gone on the air yet.
And we report back on what people say.
It was super, super fun.
And, you know, we cover a lot of different questions.
Yeah, Gretchen, I think that's one we have all dealt with at one time or another.
I love the new podcast.
I love that it's both useful information and entertaining.
Yeah, it's been super fun to work on this project.
I'm so excited that it's out in the world now.
And, of course listeners, if you are so inclined, whenever there is a podcast or a book rating.
Reviewing and then subscribing or following is a huge help.
And it's especially helpful when a show is brand new, because that's when people are trying to figure out whether they want to give it a try.
So huge, huge gold stars if you rate, review, and subscribe.
Yes, since you asked.
Yes, since you asked, we're answering.
And now on the subject of odd fun, we had talked about quirky fun and we got some delightful answers from listeners.
Nancy said, my weird fun is this.
I love trash walking.
I love the phrase trash walking.
I pick up at least 30 miles of roadside litter each month.
It helps that I live in a beautiful county where I can visit with cows, chickens and my favorite, the goats along the way.
But I can tell you that it keeps me moving and healthy.
And I love logging my trash and finding lovely treasures that come out of folks' windows as they drive down the streets.
Well, you know who this reminds me of, Elizabeth?
Yes, Dr. David Sedaris.
He talks about being in the country and picking up trash regularly, to the point that the town actually named a trash truck after him because he picks up so much trash.
So I love this letter.
And I didn't know that was the word for it, so I love trash walking.
Yes.
And then Lisa said NASA has a free app you can download, called Spot the Station that you can customize for your location.
That provides alerts when the station will be visible.
I never get tired of seeing it and marveling there are people up there.
Well, that's cool.
I didn't know that that was a thing you could do.
I certainly didn't know that there was a free app because so many other people wanted to do it.
I love this.
And it's just a reminder of science and...
And research and the immensity of the universe and human ingenuity.
I love this.
It's very fun, and it's also transcendent.
Yes.
And everybody remember we will be talking to Elizabeth Gilbert about her new memoir All the Way to the River in an upcoming episode.
So get your copy, start reading and if you have questions or insights that you want to share, send them along to us.
We will be talking to her in a few episodes.
Yes, I cannot wait to talk to her about this book.
There's so much to discuss.
Yes.
So this week, our Try This at Home suggestion is to ask for clarification.
So what do you mean by this, Gretchen?
Okay, I mean just what it sounds.
Just say, I don't understand exactly what you mean.
I need clarification.
And I consider this to be a subset of the larger Tread This at Home, which is to ask for help.
And the question that always puzzles me is, why is this so hard?
Why is it so hard to say I need some help or I need some advice, or to ask for clarification and say I do not know what that term means or whatever?
And yet I find that just instinctively I fake it.
I ruminate about the fact that I don't really understand, instead of just saying like well, why don't I just ask?
Or I kind of imagine that it's my fault, instead of just saying like please, can you give me a hand here?
I don't know why it's so hard.
Yeah, I think if other people seem to think something is clear, our automatic thought is well, if they think it's clear, there must be something wrong with me that I don't think it's clear.
Yes.
But it's so easy for someone to forget that you may not know all the lingo and all the things that apply, so you do legitimately need clarification.
So listen, we were in Kansas City and one of the things we did in Kansas City is we did a photo shoot.
It's been a long time since we sort of had our picture taken together, which we need for the podcast and various other things.
We just need pictures of ourselves together and it's always.
If it's a professional photographer, it's always so much better.
And so we'd been meaning to do this, and so I thought, okay, let's do it.
Too bad we didn't put it on our 25 for 25 list.
We would have gotten credit for it, but we didn't think of it.
Well, I think I do have it on my list.
I think you have it with Sarah.
Oh, but not with you.
Okay.
Yeah, but maybe you can give yourself sort of partial credit there.
And this question came up with studio time.
And I realized that I was puzzled.
Did studio time mean just the time that somebody's taking your picture?
Or did it literally mean now we will be in a studio, meaning like somebody else's space?
Because we were going to do it in our parents' apartment.
And I was like well, if we are choosing to do it in our parents' apartment, is that the studio for the purposes of our appointment?
Or is a studio actually a studio?
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And I was just puzzling and I was thinking Eleanor, my daughter Eleanor, and I always laugh about the fact that we will find ambiguity.
There are things, there are signs, there is language where everybody else thinks it's perfectly clear.
And Eleanor and I will be like, that's really ambiguous.
And so this is the kind of thing where I'm like.
This seems ambiguous to me because I think maybe it's the lawyer in me.
Like, for the purposes of this, you know.
Hmm.
How do you define it?
And then I'm like, instead of just puzzling about it and stewing over it, I could just email and say oh, by the way, by studio do you mean literally we will leave our parents' apartment and go to a studio.
Or do you mean like our parents' apartment is essentially the studio for this?
Well cut to.
It's a real studio and we had to go there, which made a big difference in how we planned the whole setup of the thing.
But it was surprisingly hard for me.
It took more time than you would think for me to realize I can just ask the question and find out the answer, instead of thinking that I would somehow puzzle my way toward it.
Well, I think we feel self-conscious, especially if we're in a new situation and we don't want to stand out for not knowing what's going on around us.
Yes.
The funny example I have of this Gretchen is when Sarah and I first started working.
This was our first staff job, so it was a huge deal.
And we were on a half-hour Saturday morning show and the showrunner was explaining the sets to us, what sets we had.
So it was the main character's house, and it was a coffee shop, and the school.
And she said, and then there's a swing set.
And she went on, and Sarah and I afterwards said, boy, that's weird.
A swing set?
Really?
They're having a swing set?
Well, we thought it was a jungle gym, an actual swing set.
Right, right.
With a little slide and, yeah, bars.
Yes.
I thought it was so odd.
But then when we got clarification later, it was that a swing set is a set that changes every episode.
So it could be a restaurant.
It could be somebody else's house.
It could be anything.
But there was just no way I was going to raise my hand and say, really, a swing set?
How weird.
Because I would have felt silly.
Right.
This also came up now that I'm working with Lori, Lori Gottlieb, for my new podcast.
One of the things that came up was the words that we were using with each other.
And because I am so literal and maybe again it's my legal training like I will get very literal with.
If you use a term I'm like well, this is the term you use.
So sometimes it's hard for me I can get really confused if people use terms differently.
And so I kept saying to Lori, okay, let's just pause for a minute.
What do you mean by an intro?
Or like, what do you mean by an outro?
And you think, well, what can an intro be?
Elizabeth, you and I have been doing it so long.
We have this vocabulary that we share, but sometimes there's these real ambiguities that creep in because people have slightly different ideas of what terms mean.
I made a huge mistake with this myself, not being careful with it, is that I realized...
In my work.
The show notes were the show notes on my website GretchenRubincom, because every episode has show notes on the thing.
But then I finally realized extremely recently that most people thought and this is a much more logical assumption that when I said the show notes, I meant the notes that you see in the podcast app.
You know, if you scroll down and it's links...
But these things didn't match.
And there were many more links and resources and things on the GretchenRubin.com website.
And then it was truncated in the podcast app.
Now I've tried to make those things mirror each other so that there's not way more in one than the other.
But it just took a long time because I didn't realize that I was using a term that other people had an assumption, that it had a different meaning.
So again, I think it's because when we started, we were very loose with the term show notes.
You and I use it imprecisely.
But finally, somebody asked for clarification.
And they're like, I keep looking for things that you mentioned.
And you say, oh, this is going to be in the show notes, but then it's not there.
And I'm like, why isn't it there?
And then it dawned on me because she was looking in the podcast app.
And I meant on the website.
So again, when somebody asked for clarification, it's now I've really made my system much better.
So when you ask for clarification, you might be helping somebody else as well as yourself, because it shows that there's a problem of clarity in communication.
When this comes up a lot in health a doctor might use a term that they're so used to they don't stop and think.
The patient might not know the term.
I also think it's a reason why people like to have someone with them.
If it's a big doctor's appointment, because you could be so overwhelmed, you don't even think to stop and ask.
But if you have somebody with you to raise their hand and say, OK, what do you mean by that exactly?
Because you can really go down a path in your mind because you don't understand what's being said.
Well, in fact there's research that shows that often, when people know, it's called the knowledge bias.
When you know something, it's hard for you to realize what other people do not know.
And the example that I read that I thought was very funny was like remote controls.
It's like the people who design remote controls know everything about remote controls and how they work and what they're capable of and everything.
So they have all these features because they're like, well, this is just plain as day.
Like you just push this.
It's just totally obvious.
But if you see a remote control, I mean, it's very common for people to have lengthy instructions.
So if you come in as a stranger to their television set, you know how to use a remote control, because it's not that obvious, because you need clarity.
It seems like it's clear maybe to the people who designed it because they understand it so well.
And the same thing with doctors.
Like, people be like, oh, you need a CAT scan.
And I'm like, is that something where, like—
Is that like an x-ray machine?
Is that that thing where it's like the magnets and you go into a tunnel thing?
There's a lot of things that people say very confidently, assuming that other people know exactly what they're talking about.
I mean, if it's an x-ray, I know what an x-ray is.
But beyond that, I'm like, okay, I got to go look that up.
What's the first thing they always say in school?
There are no dumb questions.
Yeah.
We all just need to remember that.
Yeah.
And that it's fine to ask.
Ask for clarification.
Well, let us know if you do try this at home and how asking for clarification works for you.
And if you have any funny examples of when you did or didn't ask for clarification.
If there is a swing set in your past, let us know.
On Instagram Threads TikTok, Facebook.
Drop us an email at podcast at GretchenRubin.com or as always, go to happiercast.com. slash 553.
Yes, there you will find links and things related to this show.
But now I try to put all that stuff in the app too.
So you can go to either place because now I realize I got to be clear in what I say.
Coming up, we've got a decluttering happiness hack.
But first this break.
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Okay, now we're back for a happiness hack, and I love this because it was a really good solution for an extremely common problem, which is you want to declutter somebody else's stuff.
You know that there is stuff that they don't need, that they don't use, that they don't want, but you just can't get them to deal with it.
And you don't want to just say okay well, I'm just going to throw it all away, because that's very inconsiderate.
But you're impatient because you sort of can't get other people engaged in what can be a tiresome process of weeding through possessions.
And Laura had a really good suggestion for getting her kids to help with a decluttering effort.
Yes, she said, with an empty box beside it.
On the wall nearby, I would place a sticky note with a date a few days in the future on it.
Their job was to go through the box and move anything they wanted to keep into the empty box.
On the date given, I would take the contents of the original box to Goodwill.
In this way, they couldn't just take the lazy way out and say they wanted to keep everything.
They had to actually go through the items in the box and since it was only one box, the task didn't take long.
Since they had a clear deadline, they couldn't just ignore the task either.
Little by little, box by box, we managed to get everything sorted in time for moving day.
Amazing idea, Gretchen.
And you can do this even if you weren't moving, obviously, just bit by bit.
But this is a really good way of deadline, making it convenient.
All the things that we know help people to stick to a process.
That's great.
And Gretchen, you have a bonus hack from our recent trip to KC.
Yes, this is a bonus hack for anybody who does ride sharing.
So I use Uber, and you know how it always says in Uber, check the license plate every time.
And a polder that I am, I check the license plate every time before I get into an Uber.
Okay, so I am at the Kansas City airport.
I have called for my Uber to take me to mom and dad's apartment and I'm looking down and it's like okay, your ride has begun.
You know, your ride is arriving, your ride has arrived.
And I was gathering up my things.
I was turning around, getting all my stuff together.
And then it took off and it showed that the ride had started and I could see the car moving away from the airport.
And what had happened was that somebody just saw the car pull up.
They were waiting to and just assumed that it was their car and got in.
And so you know you really do want to double check, because there they were going off to the completely wrong destination.
I mean, at a certain point, they figured it out because I canceled it.
I didn't know what else to do.
I didn't know how to tell them like, oh my gosh, that's me.
I could see them pulling away.
I knew the license plate.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm supposed to be in there.
And of course, I was just like running around with like a headless chicken like, oh my gosh, I don't know what to do.
It all worked out.
But it's just a reminder really make sure, especially if you're in a place where there's a lot of activity, a concert, just let out or for whatever reason, there's lots of them.
Don't assume that just because a car pulls up, it's meant for you.
Yes, check the license plate and ask the driver their name, too.
Yeah, belt and suspenders.
And now for a know-yourself-better question.
Yes, Gretchen, you had a know-yourself-better insight.
Yes, I had one of those moments of epiphany and you know we get them from time to time where all of a sudden you get some deep insight into yourself or you see some pattern in your behavior, in your thinking.
That just seems very clarifying.
And so for me and Elizabeth, I bet you'll see this in me there is a cluster of things, and I've talked about it, and I think I've even used this phrase, but I never quite even understood it myself, which is what I'm calling my compulsion to use things up.
And I have, in many, many circumstances, I feel this immense pressure to use things up.
And when I say that I mean like I need to capture them to sort of use them up by appreciating them or paying tribute to them.
I also feel that I need to deserve things by using them.
And sometimes I can use something up by writing about it.
And that's one way that I can use it up.
But some things I can't use up that way.
And when I was writing Life in Five Senses, that's when I was starting to understand this, because the Metropolitan Museum really weighed on my conscience.
And I would say that to people and they didn't understand what I meant.
And it's this treasure trove that's right within my grasp.
I can go for free as a New York State resident, but also because I joined as a member to support the museum.
And yet I'm not using it up.
And by using it up, that would mean I'm walking it.
I'm going into it.
I'm inhabiting it.
I'm understanding it.
So one of the reasons I wanted to visit the Met every day is I was like well then, it'll be off my conscience because I'll be using it up.
And I feel the same way about Central Park.
If I don't walk in Central Park fairly occasionally, it starts making me feel very nervous because I'm like, but I'm not using it up.
I need to deserve it.
I need to rise to it.
That's so interesting.
I don't feel like I have that, Gretchen, so much.
Although there are times when I do.
Like, for instance, I will say we went to the really wonderful hotel for our reading retreat.
And it did bother me that we didn't go to the pool.
Yes.
Yes.
Because I'm like, there's this gorgeous pool there and we never went.
I did feel like, oh, we didn't do our job.
We didn't go to the pool.
No, and in fact we were saying we should have an extra day, because if we had an extra day we could do those things and then we could fully inhabit the experience.
That's exactly right.
I feel this way about this lake house that we bought.
This is why I'm kayaking every day because I'm like, I have to deserve the lake.
And I don't mean deserve it in some sort of moral sense.
It's more like the world is offering this to me.
And it bothers me not to inhabit it.
And so I'm like, if I go every day because this is again my all or nothing personality if I say I will go all the time, then I know that I will use it.
But the way that I got the insight into myself is, okay, so Eleanor, we drop off Eleanor at college.
And of course, they're talking about all the resources that are there and all of the wonderful activities that are there, and the speakers, and here's the library and here's the little gym, and here's the big gym and they have a maker space and there's all these things.
And I just started feeling really anxious about it.
And I kept saying to Eleanor, you've got to do it.
You've got to do it.
You've got to do this.
You've got to do this.
How are you going to do this?
Are you going to make yourself do this?
And I could hear myself.
I'm like, why am I sounding so frantic?
Right.
Now, part of it is that I deeply regret from my own college experience.
I didn't have this at that time.
So I feel like I didn't use up college the way that now I really wish that I had.
So part of it is me trying to have Eleanor learn from my regret.
Mm-hmm.
But I think part of it is also like, here is this thing.
Use it up.
Inhabit it.
I still feel like I can't really exactly explain.
I don't have the exact words.
There's something that is offered.
How can you not receive?
Well, I think this is a very important insight because I think this could lead to a lot of conflict, especially inside families or couples.
Because if you have this feeling and your spouse or your children don't, the arguments that could ensue are so many.
Yes.
And it's interesting because our parents definitely have a use it up about traveling.
You leave at the first possible moment.
You come back at the last possible moment.
You go, go, go.
You try to do as much as you can.
And I remember when I got married to Jamie, his family has a habit of having an extra day.
Usually when they come back, they try to have a buffer day to recover.
And to me, this felt incredibly like, why in the world would you do that?
It didn't even occur to me to do that.
But then I realized that is also really a luxury to have this time to just get yourself caught up with life.
But you're right.
If you had two people, where one was frantic to use things up and the other one was like, let's take it easy.
We don't need to knock ourselves out.
Let's just have fun.
That could be a big conflict.
Yeah, I also think this could be a good motivator, Gretchen.
Yes, it sure has for me.
Go to the event, take a trip, all of that.
If you think to yourself, well, let me use it up.
Let me try to use it up.
Yes.
All these resources we all have and we just let go by.
Yes.
We remind ourselves to try to use it up.
I think that's good.
September is library sign-up month or whatever, and you think of all the stuff that libraries offer.
You're like, use that up.
There's so much there.
You can borrow your camping equipment.
There's got all sorts of stuff.
But another thing, when I realized this about myself, when I pulled it all together, things that I had talked about or felt before, but it all came together.
This makes sense why I am such a huge fan of the work of Virginia Woolf and Andy Warhol.
Both Virginia Woolf and Andy Warhol absolutely shared this preoccupation with me.
Virginia Woolf is always saying like, how do I capture the moment?
How do I capture this experience?
There's moments of being like I need to capture it.
And Andy Warhol was absolutely preoccupied, like constantly wanting to capture a moment or record a moment.
He would tape record people.
He would take photographs.
He would like keep ephemera.
They have this feeling that I have.
So it makes sense that their work resonates so deeply with me, because we have the same kind of discomfort.
That is fascinating.
Yeah, here is a beautiful quotation from Andy Warhol.
He writes, and this was in an interview, I can't bear to let all this beautiful talk go by.
And he opened up his attaché case and took out an enormous microphone.
Everybody says fantastic things.
People are always putting it down as an invasion of privacy, but I think everyone should be bugged all the time.
Bugged and photographed.
He just couldn't bear to let things go by.
So interesting.
So interesting.
So do other people feel this way?
Listeners, I am asking you, do you have this feeling and how does it come up in your own life?
This was so clarifying for me about my own nature.
Now I'm going to start looking for it everywhere.
Yes.
Coming up, Gretchen gives herself what I think might be a repeat demerit.
But first, this break.
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All right Gretch, we are back with demerits and gold stars, and you are up this week with a happiness demerit.
This is a big demerit and it's a kind of hard demerit to work on because it's so pervasive.
But I have started interrupting more.
I think I always do kind of interrupt.
And sometimes in some contexts, I think interrupting is good because it shows that the conversation is lively and that you're engaged and you're like, oh my gosh.
And it reminds me of this.
And, like you, can do it in a fun way where it feels like it's adding to the energy of a conversation.
But I was noticing I was cutting someone off.
In my mind, I was sort of like, oh, I see where this is going.
Let me redirect it until this person goes all the way down this road, and then we actually should be talking about something else, or whatever.
But I am not the boss of the world.
I cannot read people's minds.
It is super rude to interrupt people and I'm very much hoping that by giving myself this demerit, I will help myself bite my tongue.
Because, let's say, a conversation takes an extra five minutes because people are sort of off on some tangent or pursuing some line of thought.
That's not important.
Or maybe it is important.
And like, who am I to say that it's not important?
I just need to get hold of myself and stop interrupting.
It's not good.
This is one of the biggest challenges of my life.
I mean, I am an interrupter.
It's horrible.
I try to work on this, but then I'll forget for months at a time.
Okay, there.
I was just trying to interrupt you right there.
I have heard you say this before.
I have never noticed that about you.
Well, maybe because you and I both interrupt.
We don't take it as insulting.
So we just naturally constantly interrupt and that's our flow.
Yeah.
But it's not appropriate at many times in life to be interrupting.
So I'm glad you gave yourself this demerit because it's always a good reminder to me.
But you know what?
Now that I think about it and just like watching our pattern just then made me think one thing about you and me both is that we're comfortable with crosstalk for a while.
Some people really stop talking when someone interrupts.
And you and I will fight to finish our point, or we'll continue on and finish while somebody's already starting.
So I think that we think oh, it's not as maybe oppressive to other people as it is to us, because we can keep it going more or fight.
Sometimes you're like, somebody's trying to interrupt me, but I'm not backing down.
I'm going to keep pushing my point.
I think you and I, we feel comfortable with that.
And I think some people do not feel comfortable with that.
They don't do that pushing back.
And so I think it's even more important to be considerate.
And remember, I don't want to squelch this person with my lack of consideration.
I need to be aware that I do have this tendency.
Okay, so for you and me both, let's try.
Yes.
Or like as Yoda says, there is no try.
Let's do it.
Let's stop interrupting.
There you go.
Okay, Alyssa, take us up.
What is your gold star for this week?
Well, Gretchen, we mentioned that we were in Kansas City recently together.
Yes.
We went to a luncheon.
It's a yearly luncheon that's held at the Nelson Atkins Museum to benefit the museum.
It's given by a group called the Committee of 100.
And our friends, our dear, dear friends Mindy from Kansas City, who I talk about all the time, my best friend in Kansas City, her sister Jamie and her mother, who we call Mrs Schultz, others call Kathy.
Yes.
We're the chair people of the luncheon this year, and we wanted to be there.
They did an incredible job.
Also want to mention that our mom was one of the people who started this luncheon.
Was it 15 years ago now?
14.
14.
Fourteen years ago.
So, of course, we went with her as well.
I give them just a big gold star because it is a huge job to be in charge of an event like this.
It really benefits the museum, but also everybody loves this luncheon.
It's just really fun.
You dress up.
There's a speaker.
There's lovely food.
It looks beautiful.
So we had a great time.
And gold star to Jamie, Mindy, and Kathy for heading up the luncheon.
And gold star for our mother for working to have the idea in the first place.
It was so fun.
That's right.
Big gold star for that.
Yes.
The resource for this week.
I mentioned episode one of the Since You Asked podcast.
Is ready to listen to.
And I would love for you to listen.
And also people say like, oh, I want to support the show.
I'm not sure how.
So here's something you can do right this second, which would be a huge help, which is to follow or subscribe.
Different apps use different language.
But if you're in your podcast app, if you just search for Since You Asked and then on the show page you tap follow or subscribe or plus.
They're all different.
Then you are signed up for the show.
You'll get new episodes right into your feed.
And it's a huge help to a show if you do that.
And so you will get a giant gold star from me.
I hope when you're done listening to this episode, you'll head over to Since You Asked and listen to that.
We had so much fun recording it.
I hope people love listening to it.
I love it, Grudge.
Oh, what a good sister.
Alicia, what are you reading?
I am reading A Bad Day for Sorry by Sophie Littlefields.
And I am reading The Farthest Shore by Ursula Le Guin.
And that's it for this episode of Happier.
Remember to try this at home.
Ask for clarification.
Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you and what did you ask for clarification about.
Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed, and everyone at Lemonada.
If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the time.
You can listen ad-free.
Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or go to LemonadaPremium.com.
And here's your rhyming reminder.
If you enjoy the podcast, tell your friends fast.
Until next week, I'm Elizabeth Craft.
And I'm Gretchen Rubin.
Thanks for joining us Onward and Upward.
So Elizabeth, this two-box system for clearing clutter, I wonder if that might work for you, because you're sort of gradually going through layers of decluttering.
Do you think this is a system you could use?
Absolutely, Grace.
That was my first thought when I read this letter.
I thought, oh, this is something for my life.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Okay.
You'll have to report back.
From the Onward Project.
If you've been keeping up with the podcast, you know that last month, Elizabeth and I went on our first ever reading retreat, which was amazing.
It was so fun just eating, reading, and sleeping all day every day.
No sightseeing, no scheduling, no stress.
And it got us thinking that you could really turn anything into a themed retreat.
You could go biking.
You could go hiking.
You could do a board game retreat with friends or a binge-watching retreat.
Whatever you're into, it's all about blocking out time and dedicating yourself to something you love.
And while you're away, why not host your home on Airbnb?
It's an easy, flexible way to take in some extra cash and make the most of your space.
And who knows, that cozy reading nook that you enjoy in your house day to day could be the site of someone else's first annual reading retreat.
Your home might be worth more than you think.
Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host.
