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Lemonada. Hello and welcome to happier a podcast where we talk about strategies and suggestions for making our lives happier healthier more productive and more creative This week we'll talk about why we should beware the impulse to disengage And we will talk about some terrific ideas for themed retreats from listeners.
I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits. secrets of adulthood, human nature.
I'm in my little home office in New York City, which is heating up rapidly as I sit here without my air conditioning on.
And joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister Elizabeth Kraft.
And Elizabeth, you have excellent air conditioning in your studio room.
That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer living in L.A.
And yes, Gretch, I'm nice and cool here.
In fact, sometimes I even have to turn on on my little heater because I get chilly.
Well, before we jump in, a few updates. Yes, Margo said, I highly recommend a book club in your neighborhood.
That's something I talked about wanting to do.
I have one just on my street. Not only is it a great way to catch up with my Also fun to see the neighbors walking through the neighborhood to get to the person's house on book club evening.
We have one tonight. One of our neighbors started coordinating a monthly shelter dinner that families on the neighborhood contribute to.
We had our five-year anniversary this month.
It's another great opportunity to connect with the feeding in our community, and I love seeing people walking down the street carrying their dishes to contribute.
Just another idea for connecting when they I love this idea.
I love just the word neighbor. To me, it has so much... energy and power.
And I love the idea that it's just the street.
Alyssa, do you remember growing up, we had a carpool to school that was just children on our street.
And there is something... Special, not even just your neighborhood, but your street.
Oh, yeah. I would go out and play like kick the can and sardines with just kids on our street.
Just our block. Yeah, that's a great idea.
I love both those ideas. Rachel said, I just finished the episode regarding making a decision and making it work.
For instance, with the city you choose to live in.
I have always felt some regret moving back to my hometown.
Even though it has been nine years, I still feel like I have one foot out the door because I still feel like I made the wrong decision.
Obviously, the decision has stood the test of time for nine years, so maybe it's high time for me to make it work, as you say."
It actually takes up a good amount of mental room, contributing to worry, the idea that we should never have moved back here.
The indecision is exhausting, like the college transfers and the summer camp, if you have the choice.
You're always scanning for the bad so you can choose better.
Well, I'm going to try to change this now.
So that's great. She's made a decision and deciding to make it work.
I love that. And then Pam asked, is there a spot on your website that lists the Know Yourself Better questions that you pose in some of the podcasts?
There is not a spot on my website per se, but I have created journals that are collections of the Know Yourself Better questions because these are so popular.
So I have one that's just the classic know yourself better.
Then there's one know yourself better embracing change.
And then there's the know yourself better building connections.
And so if you love a good know yourself better question, Just go to my site, GretchenRubin.com, look on the shop, and you can find those three journals.
Well, Alyssa and I, we love a great Know Yourself Better question.
So it's fun to hear that other people find them as intriguing and useful as we do.
Yes, they really are intriguing. So this week, the Try This at Home suggestion is to beware of the impulse to disengage.
Interesting. Okay, explain that a little more.
Well, the impulse to disengage can come up in many ways, and there are sort of three principle ways.
One is that when we feel lonely and isolated, we tend to pull away.
Now this, I think, is somewhat counterintuitive, and it's certainly counterproductive.
But I think it's counterintuitive because I did a lot of research on loneliness for my book, Happier at Home.
And I had always assumed, without thinking about it, that if you were lonely, that would make you more receptive to other people and more open to overtures of friendship and connection for other people because you're like, well, of course you're gonna be more receptive to it because you're lonely.
But in fact, what research shows is that being lonely tends to make us more prickly.
It makes us more fragile, more negative, more self-critical.
It makes us less accepting of potential new friends.
I just read that novel, A Man Called Uwe, And that's exactly what it is.
He's very, very lonely. And so he becomes incredibly defensive and difficult.
And you really want to be aware of this impulse because it is so counterproductive.
Yes, I totally see how that would happen.
It's like you feel angry and so you... don't want to deal with people, but in fact, it has the opposite effect.
Yeah. It's one of these things where happier people are more tolerant, more easygoing.
So you want to be aware of the fact that if you are feeling lonely or isolated, you may be starting to try to pull away or ward people off.
And I know just even in my own life, even when I'm not tremendously lonely.
But when I am feeling kind of blue or feeling a bit isolated, I do just want to like stay home on the sofa and watch reruns of The Office.
I'm like, that's what's gonna feel good.
But I know if I see people, if I make plans, if I go out and like interact, That's what's going to make me feel more comforted and energized, but you sort of have to talk yourself into it sometimes.
Yeah, I think that's a reason why it is a good idea if you're lonely to have a dog because you're forced to go out in the world and walk your dog and see people.
Well, and then there's an important distinction, though, between loneliness and being isolated by yourself and then also desired solitude.
We all know the feeling of solitude when it feels peaceful and creative and restorative, or when it's that... distracting, draining, upsetting feeling.
And so it's also, I mean, back to the know yourself better, you want to say to yourself, what am I experiencing?
And then, of course, you can be lonely even when you're with other people.
So you're not even necessarily by yourself.
True. It's the thing, Gretch, you always say of the opposite of a profound truth is also true.
Yes. Sometimes you'd tell somebody, just disengage.
So don't disengage. And also do disengage, if you will.
Yeah, so this is going to be when we talk about don't disengage.
Yeah, next week we can do do disengage. That's right.
They're both true. Okay. So yeah, your mileage may vary.
And we did a very special episode about loneliness.
Yes. Episode 110. Yeah, that was a really, really fascinating discussion.
It's a really important subject. But then the second kind of category where we may feel an impulse to disengage that might not be useful is when we feel purposeless.
What research suggests is that when we feel purposeless, we often shy away from meaningful responsibility.
It just feels like it's too much to take on.
But again, it's counterproductive because actually helping other people tends to energize us and cheer us there's something called a helper's high that people get And research shows that people who regularly volunteer have higher levels of energy and well-being.
And here's something that is Again, very paradoxical but I think it rings true in our own experience, which is that People who spent time helping others reported having more time available in their days to spend on themselves.
So you say, well, how can it be that people who are devoting this time to other people now feel like they have more time to themselves that just logically can't be true.
But the researchers theorize it's because when we're helping others, we feel more capable. and we feel more in control of our schedules.
And so if you are feeling that, oh my gosh, I have no purpose, I want to disengage.
Remember this. I know talking to people about the empty nest...
A feeling of purposelessness is something that is a big, big challenge for some people at this time And so getting a sense of purpose by taking on meaningful responsibility is a way to address that.
Yeah, Gretchen, I love the phrase helper's high.
I've never heard that before. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, and then the third category is that when we feel overwhelmed by news, bad news or events or things that are happening and we feel helpless about what we see, we sometimes disengage.
We want to turn away. But in fact, as we often say, action is the antidote to anxiety, and being part of the work to address an issue tends to make you feel more optimistic, not less optimistic.
And so by kind of getting engaged with this issue, this problem, this bad news, this event that actually will make you feel better about it.
Gretchen, I definitely feel this in Hollywood.
As we talk about all the time on Happier in Hollywood, it's a very anxious time.
Yes. Things are changing. A lot of people feel hopeless.
When Sarah and I do like a WGA panel or... take part in one of our groups that we're in, one of our writers groups.
We have a few writers I definitely feel better and more in control.
Also, like we started a sub stack and that helps us. feel more in control so it is the case that you want to just sort of get in bed and put the covers over your head and just say tell me when to come out.
But the more we do, the better we feel because we're just doing it.
So I definitely feel this. Well, I felt this way myself because My husband, Jamie, had hepatitis C. He got hepatitis C when he was eight years old from a Blood transfusion he got during a heart operation because at that time they didn't know about hepatitis C, so they weren't screening for it in the blood supply.
So he had hepatitis C. And think about hepatitis C. It takes like 30 years.
And so by the time we were sort of married and everything, it was starting to be. a very real issue for him and his health.
And because of science and researchers, he's now miraculously cured.
But there was a while there where it attacks the liver.
That's what hepatitis C did. And we knew that there was medical breakthroughs happening. but we didn't know if they would happen fast enough for Jamie.
So one of the things you do is, If his liver failed, then potentially he would have a liver transplant.
And so one of the things that I got... involved in as part of this, because I did feel very powerless in the face of just this virus in his body. was I got involved in our local organ donation organization.
And it did make me feel better because I was like, here are these good people doing this good work.
It was something that I could do and it did help during a difficult time.
Yeah, this is great advice. And I definitely feel like I myself forget about this advice too. resist disengagement.
So I'm glad to hear this because I think it is super helpful.
I will be very curious to hear listeners' ideas about how they've engaged instead of disengaging.
So, let us know if there are contacts where you've felt that impulse or resisted that impulse to disengage.
Let us know on Instagram, threads, TikTok, Facebook.
Drop us an email at podcast at gretchenrubin.com.
Or as always, you can go to the show notes.
This is happiercast.com slash 547. Gretch, coming up, we have a video happiness hack.
But first, this break. Gretchen, it's always bittersweet when summer winds down even though we look forward to fall as well.
I've done so that I don't feel too sad about summer ending is plan to have friends over for dinner.
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And, you know, I love a tablescape, so I'm... trying to up my game with the help of Wayfair.
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Okay, we're back with this week's happiness hack.
Reg, this is something you told me about that I had no idea of.
Yeah, we were together in your house in Encino and you had to do a video call and you didn't know what your background was going to look like.
I think you had to be in a different place because I was there.
I can't even remember now. even though it was like two weeks ago.
But if you want to know how you're going to look on video, you can go to zoom.us slash test.
And it will show you what you look like.
And also you can test your microphone and your headphones.
Now, of course, you may not be using Zoom.
You may be using some other platform. slightly different.
You might see slightly more or less of the background.
It seems like all of them have their own idiosyncrasies.
But I find it really helpful, especially if I'm in a new place or I'm worried about the lighting or I don't know if something messy in the background is going to show?
Do I need to worry about moving all that stuff, or can I just leave it be?
That's really helpful. And it's just zoom.us slash test.
And it will give you like a minute to take a look at your setup.
Very helpful. And now a know yourself better question.
Okay. I think this is a really good know yourself better questions because I'm very interested in how our child selves influence or show up in our adult selves.
And so here's the question. As a child, what made you different?
So what were your interests? What were your pursuits?
What were your activities, your enthusiasms?
What were the things that made you stand out?
Elizabeth, what would you say? That's such a good question.
Well, one thing that I always felt like made me stand out was that I had glasses.
Mm. Starting in fourth grade. Were you one of the first in your crowd?
Oh, for sure. And it's funny because there's this idea that people look smarter with glasses.
Mm. So I feel like I was always labeled as the smart one because of my glasses starting fourth great.
And it's silly how it's still the case that people, even as adults, I feel like, Have that association.
It's like having a British accent. You just sound smarter.
Exactly. Here's something funny about glasses.
So with Eleanor, she really, really wanted glasses.
And I think she had to get glasses in second or third grade.
So she was also very young, also one of the very first, but she was really excited about it.
To the point that I was sort of concerned and her eye doctor, I guess he could tell that I was like, is she faking this just because she really wants the glasses?
And he leans over to me and says softly, I can tell by the shape of her eyeballs that she really does need glasses.
Because it's like, could a second grader fake out this test?
Probably not. But anyway... I just thought that was funny because you sort of have this idea that nobody wants glasses, Eleanor really was excited.
And then her friends all wanted glasses too, which was kind of funny.
Maybe it was the Harry Potter effect. I don't know.
Not in her case, I don't think so. Maybe they just made her feel grown up.
Yes. Okay. Yeah. Now I think, Gretchen, I'm very much known for my love of the housewives.
I feel like that makes me stand out. Of course, they didn't exist when I was young, but I definitely am known for that.
I think people casually watch the Housewives, but you rigorously watch the Housewives.
You listen to the Housewives podcast. You've gone to live shows of podcasts to discuss the housewives.
I mean... You will often be like, I have a celebrity sighting because I saw this housewife.
I feel like you've taken it to a level of enthusiasm that's unusual.
Yeah, and I think part of why it stands out is because maybe it seems counter to...
Who I am, if people meet me, I think they don't think I would love the housewives.
So then it really strikes them. Yeah. As odd or interesting.
So it's kind of like what surprises people about you also. makes you stand out?
Well, it's that question that is really fun to play in a crowd, which is, what is the least you thing you do?
Or like, what's the least you thing about you?
Like I have a friend and she's like, the least me thing that I do is dye my hair.
And everybody's like, 100%. Nobody would think that.
But of course, the opposite of a profound truth is also true because...
It may be the thing that's very unexpected, but then it is the thing that is so authentic to you, so it is the most you and the least you.
My father-in-law loves jewelry, And he was saying, oh, yeah, I'd buy rings.
I'd buy bracelets. I love jewelry. None of us knew this.
I was like, that is the least you think I've ever heard you say.
So it's a really fun thing with people that you know well to try to figure out what it is.
And it takes a long time sometimes. But when you hear it, you know it.
And now that I know you so well, it's not the least Elizabeth thing about you.
But I think to people who don't know you well, that might be a candidate.
That's so fun. So how about you, Grouch?
What were you known for? As if I think everybody could probably guess what you were known for.
I was just a big reader. I was just like a big, big, big reader.
I remember when mom and dad made a rule that I had to go outside for like a half an hour a day because otherwise I would just stay in I read all the time.
A lot of people love to read, but I was just so... so enthusiastic about it.
I think that was a thing that I was really known for.
It wasn't so much that I was known for this, but it was something about me that made me different that I knew was that I had my blank books that I worked on, which is when I would spend hours and hours, I would cut out images for magazines and I would copy out my favorite quotations from books and then I would match the quotation with the image and copy the words into a blank book and then on the facing page put the illustration.
And for some reason, I have nine of these books.
I spent hours and hours and hours and hours for years on them.
I still have them. They're right next to me right this very minute. because they're so precious to me.
I never showed them to anybody. Not that they're secret, but I just never had the impulse to show them to anybody. but they were something that I did that was special to me.
What I remember about those books, Gretchen, is that you would glue in the images or the quotes And then they would get bigger and bigger when they dried.
So the book ended up. Yes. fanning out like an accordion.
They would not lie flat, right, which makes them harder. to put on my shelves because they take up a lot of room because it's not just sliding a book under the shelf.
That was a big fun thing for me. And this is a question that I've been thinking about with The Empty Nest as well, because Sometimes people will say like, I need to figure out what I like apart from the preferences of the family around me.
And I think sometimes we do lose... touch with our quirks, our likes, our dislikes, our enthusiasms.
Often, I think that by reflecting on the past, we have clues for the present.
So I think it's a really interesting know-yourself-better question.
Absolutely. And now for some listener answers.
We did a themed retreat, a reading themed retreat, but...
You can have anything you want. And we heard some really intriguing ideas for retreats.
Yes. Caroline and Kate said, quilts to decorate our porches where we live in Alberta, Canada.
We love the process so much, we are now considering suggesting it to friends. and setting up a Barn Quilts retreat in our mountain house near Banff, Alberta.
We created the design, drew it onto the plywood, then painted it.
Such fun. And they sent a picture, which was adorable.
Okay, this is a fun idea. Rebecca said, for the last few years, my cousin and I have had an annual weekend retreat with a pampering theme.
Each year we choose a different place and plan a combination of something relaxing. something new and some retail therapy.
It's a very bonding experience and we look forward to it every year.
I mean, if you need something to look forward to, pampering, just the word.
You're like, okay, sign me up. But it sounds like what they're doing is not that extravagant.
Yeah, it sounds great. Jennifer said your recent episode about going on a themed retreat made me stop and wonder.
Have I been planning one myself without realizing it? and a half and 12.
And in greyhound years, they're in the late summer of their lives.
Like so many others, we adopted them after their racing careers ended.
Sean was two and a half. and Heidi around four.
They have been a part of the family for quite a long time.
Greyhounds are a special breed and these two have filled our lives with quiet joy.
Now as age has slowed them down and brought on arthritis and chronic kidney disease, I find myself dreading the inevitable goodbye.
I've been through this kind of loss before, and I know how devastating it can be."
That's why in true planner and overthinker fashion, I've begun preparing for what comes after.
I am not sure if my husband will join me because he processes these things differently and I would like to respect.
However, he chooses to handle his own grief when the time comes.
Maybe this is exactly what I'm organizing. a healing the heartache retreat.
I've been quietly gathering options for a small getaway for when the time comes.
I've saved a few Airbnb listings so I don't have to make the decisions later.
I'm not planning to go far, perhaps a train ride to Mystic, Connecticut or to put my car on the Cape ferry and head to Bethany Beach, Delaware.
I imagine watching the water, whatever the season, as a soothing balm for my soul.
I'd like to rent a house with a porch or a quiet spot to sit with a cup of coffee or read and take therapeutic bike rides and walk through beautiful scenery.
A deep bathtub to soak in and a cool, dim bedroom where I can finally sink into rest.
I haven't had an uninterrupted night's sleep in nearly two years since Sean first needed a midnight trip outside, which I can clearly remember was during the meteor shower in 2023, and I've been up with one or both dogs multiple times a night ever since.
We haven't traveled or taken a weekend away in that time either.
Our longtime dog sitters retired. and we didn't want to introduce new people into their routine at their age.
And then it became too hard with special food and the late night trips outside.
Of course, this retreat won't take away the heartbreak, but I hope it will take me out of the day to day routine so steeped in memory and give me space to begin healing.
I know when I come home The feeling will still be there, but maybe we will also be ready to honor their memory. perhaps by welcoming new dogs who need a loving forever home, just as Sean and Heidi once did.
Well, that's beautiful. That is a beautiful idea, a healing the heartache retreat.
And I think she's very wise to think. in the moment she's not going to want to like be scrolling through Airbnb listings or thinking about, okay, do I want to go to this town or that town? it's good to think about it in advance and sort of have a plan and so that then when you need it, you're sort of like, okay, I've prepared myself And it sounds like Jennifer really knows herself and like what works for her. and sounds from sad experience.
And so this is a really good idea of You know yourself and create the circumstances that are going to help you through a tough time. when you can anticipate it.
We can't always anticipate it, but sometimes we can.
So I thought that was a really beautiful idea.
Kind of a very different note, Jonathan said, every year in the first weekend in April, my buddies from medical school get together in the same town.
We call it stupid fun, and we do things like miniature golf, arcades, and superhero movies.
That's fun. Stupid fun retreat. Stupid fun. retreats reminded me of a favorite respite when I was in grad school—
Once a month, one of my professors would host a creative fun day where people could come and work on whatever creative project they desired for as long as they desired.
That time set aside and having other people around meant I finished craft projects that would have just languished otherwise.
I mean, that is a brilliant idea. That would be a great idea for a themed retreat.
You could do that once a month if you have artsy friends and get all that stuff done.
I love that idea. Yeah. And Elizabeth, I love the idea of the trifecta retreat. planning retreat for the upcoming year where you look forward, look back.
I love an idea of a self-knowledge retreat where you would do just self-knowledge exercises and quizzes.
You could work in the Know Yourself Better journals.
We talked about the values bridge quiz, which is how do you know your values?
There's the four tendencies. There's so many things that would be super fun.
Yeah, it'd be fun to do the quizzes and those things and then discuss them. whoever you're with.
No, exactly. And it would be such a great way to like be breaking the ice. because you would be instantly completely leaping into like the core of somebody else's nature.
I love that idea. I would love to lead a retreat like this.
I could think of nothing more fun than leading a self-knowledge retreat.
Oh, maybe you should do it. Okay. Well, anyway, listeners, let me know if you think that sounds like something that would be fun for you.
Let me know because I think that would be fun.
And the trifecta retreat, I think that also sounds incredibly fun.
I love a themed retreat. This is just a fun idea.
Yes. All right, coming up, Gretchen has a demerit about sleep.
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Okay, Gretch, we are back with demerits and gold stars, and this is your week for a happiness demerit.
I mean, this is just a demerit that I should not have done, and yet I did it, which is I drank caffeine too close to my bedtime.
And then of course I was as alert as an owl and I had only myself to blame.
I always try to keep an eye on the clock and not drink caffeinated drinks. in the afternoon, and I just, I don't know.
I just, for a couple days running, I just ignored that.
Like, oh, I guess caffeine doesn't really affect me anymore.
Guess what? It does. It does. Caffeine still works on me.
And I thought, oh, this is a demerit. And so then I switched back.
And now I'm sleeping much more soundly. So lesson learned.
Good. Well, yeah, you are such a sleep zealot.
It just surprises me. I wouldn't expect you to do this.
Was it... Soda, coffee, what was the culprit?
Both. So this is the thing. I think I'm such a sleep zealot and I had done this so faithfully that I started to have this idea of, oh, it doesn't matter.
You know how you can have that irrational thing, which is my results have been so consistent and so good.
My efforts must be meaningless. And it's like, no, maybe it's because your efforts are working really well.
Yes, that happens to me with my blood sugar numbers.
Oh, how so just if I've been in a really good place for days on end, then I think I don't really have to pay attention.
Right. And then the minute I stop paying attention, they shoot up and then I have to get back on track.
And it's an ongoing process. So I definitely understand what you're saying.
But maybe we're lucky that with these things, there's immediate feedback.
So you course correct very quickly. quickly because I think sometimes if you sort of don't realize that you're losing your benefits, you might not snap back into the good habits again.
But, Elizabeth, take us up. What's your gold star?
Well, my gold star is very simple. I am giving a gold star to the fact that Project Runway is back.
So I love Project Runway, the design competition show.
It has come and gone a few times, and it is back.
I just love it. I love watching people design.
I love watching the runway show. Of course, I always love a reality competition.
So I'm just happy it is back. That's great.
Yes, that is a super popular show. The resource for this week is...
If you are feeling the urge to tackle projects this fall, because fall is coming, and September is the other new year, it's the other January, I have created three tools to help you get things done.
If you are trying to work on building a lasting habit, the don't break the Chain Tracker helps you visualize your progress and maintain momentum.
If you are creatively stuck, the Muse Machine, my card deck of creative prompts, will help you get going.
It's 150 unexpected creative prompts. I love the Muse Machine.
My favorite thing about the Muse Machine is the name.
I love the name Muse Machine. Yes. Clarity about yourself the know yourself better journal and I mentioned the three know yourself better journals can help you discover who you truly are and not who you think you should be.
So you can look at all of these things at the collection if you go to happiercast.com slash shop.
And Elizabeth, what are we reading? What are you reading?
I am reading Eat, Pray, Love by Elizabeth Gilbert.
And I'm reading Ongoingness, The End of a Diary by Sarah Manguso.
And that's it for this episode of Happier.
Remember to try this at home. Beware the impulse to disengage.
Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.
Thanks to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada.
And here. is your rhyming reminder. This is a classic.
I think this is my favorite rhyming reminder.
If you like the show, tell others you know.
Until next week, I'm Elizabeth Craft. And I'm Gretchen Rubin.
Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.
Now that we've had our first themed retreat, I feel like everything is going to be about themed retreats.
It's just such a big idea. Well, it's like the meditation. waiting in line meditation, drugstore meditation, and you just automatically feel more elevated and spiritual.
And I think making something to a retreat.
Just makes it sound official and fun, which is a hard combination.
Yes. From the Onward Project. You know how much we love a travel hack.
And if you've been keeping up with our podcast, You know we just revisited one of our favorite episodes where we shared our all-time favorite travel tips.
My favorite travel hack is to keep a travel toiletry kit stocked at all times.
That way, rather than unpacking or repacking your toiletries every time you travel, you just keep a kit of all your travel size goodies in your closet year round and that way packing is so much easier and you never forget anything important Another travel hack, hosting your space on Airbnb when you're away.
Yep, your place, just sitting there while you're off on vacation could actually be making you money.
With Airbnb, you decide when to host, who stays and how much to charge And Airbnb gives you support every step of the way.
It is just the smart thing to do. And just think, with all that extra cash coming in, you can start saving toward your next weekend getaway. you might as well.
You already have your toiletries packed.
Your home might be worth more than you think.
Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host.
