People take risks every single day yet this one
asking somebody to be courageous enough to open up a blank notebook and
Write dear love. What would you have me know and then imagine?
What unconditional love would say to them feels like oh, that's a bridge too far. I'm not doing that
And I call people out on that because I'm like I've seen this. I've seen the risks you've taken in your life
You know, I dare you to take this risk and to see and I think that
largely the reason that we're so frightened to do it is because we've never experienced it
Like nobody ever loved us unconditionally
So I would ask that you try it and then I would ask that you try it again
And then I would ask that you try it again because this is your inheritance
You are allowed to be loved. It's too hard without it
So when you think of the author at Elizabeth Gilbert what immediately comes to mind for so many
It's the journey that she took that led to the blockbuster book Eat, Pray Love or
Maybe it's her viral TED talk on creativity or maybe the many additional books that have come over the years
But there's another reason Liz has stayed in my heart in mind for so many years after I first sat down with her on the podcast
I think I nearly bet a decade ago
It was her heart her kindness her wisdom and her sense of lightness and laughter
Even through profound struggle and loss her willingness to be utterly Liz and love herself wholly
That fame line from when Harry Metzali schooled through my consciousness all have what she's having and over the years
Building on that early conversation with Liz I came to learn how far from that place
She'd spent so much of her life how
Consumingly negative so much of her inner talk had been until a single revelation turned practice
Changed everything for her one that's available to all of us
So with the launch of Liz's letters from love newsletter and community on
Substack last year she revealed this simple yet transformative writing practice that brought her back to how loved she is and has always been
Even when it felt so far away
Every week in her letters from love community Liz shares a letter that she's written to herself from a place of love
One that begins with the same prompt every time dear love
What would you have me know today and alongside hers?
She shares a letter from a special guest coupled with a video of them reading it aloud
So this week we decided to do a bit of a fun collaboration
Liz asked me if I would be her guest letter writer sharing my own personal letter from love written from love
To me and through me. I have to admit this kind of scared me
It is a profoundly vulnerable act for me to not only write but also to share and then read aloud
But I said yes because she asked and I trust her implicitly at also
Because something in me knew that I needed it and you can read her letter and my letter over at letters from love now
We've published both simultaneously this episode and that letter
We've included a link in the show notes, but that's not all
I was also just really curious about the genesis of this practice
Where did it come from what did it look like over the years?
How do you actually do the practice especially as that was about to write mine?
What are the quote best practices if they even exist the do's and don'ts the desires and fears that come up and how can we all embrace the juicy wisdom and feeling of
Being deeply held that accompanies this practice
So Liz and I decided to record this conversation one that dies into all of this and more as you listen in to Liz's wisdom
Her stories and simple approach to crafting your own letters from love emerged and you'll also hear about how I was
Going about writing my own letter with a little too much head and
Not enough trust and heart and how she invited me to take a different act that was so helpful when I finally sat down to do it
So listen in as Liz walks us through the practice of writing letters from love and then be short to head over to her
Letters from love substack where she shares her letter this week and then to read and hear me speak my own letter from love today
Again that link is in the show notes and finally if your game
Take a deep breath grab a journal and write your own first letter from love
So excited to share this conversation with you on Jonathan Fields and this is good life project
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I think an interesting starting point for us is
You have been writing these letters from love to yourself for many many many years now
Before we dive into what these are and and how they work and all the details
I love to take a little bit of a step back in time and my curiosity is
What was happening with you? What was happening in your life when
The idea first came to you to say you know what I need to sit down and literally write this thing to myself. What was going on?
Oh man
It was my dark night of the soul, you know, I mean we have many of them I think over the course and journeys of our lives
But this was the lowest this was the worst of the worst and partially it's because
I didn't have any tools yet. I was so unformed as a spiritual being and my
Living as a human being
Based on everything I had ever been taught to the best of my ability was totally failing me
But I didn't have a back I didn't like have a good backup
Ideology, you know, I think probably everybody must know this. I was 30 years old. I'm 55 almost now
And I was going through a divorce
I had ill-advisedly but very innocently thrown myself into a passionate love story right on the heels of the breakup of that marriage
That was a disaster
That you know everything that I had been planning for my life and then my other plans besides those had fallen apart like
I couldn't make anything work and I was so full of shame and
so full of despair and
longing
for love on the heels of two in a row of just like shattering heart failures and
lonely
depressed and anxious and I didn't I just didn't have any of my toolkit was empty because I had not been
taught any of the things I needed to survive something like that and
I've since found out that this is very
Common in people who have are going through a really bad depressive or anxiety episode
I was always waking up at like 4 30 in the morning wide awake and
Interorable despair and that's like the literal darkness
You know it's like because it's you can't do anything at 4 30 in the morning like you can't just
You're too exhausted to just get up and start the day. There's nothing to be done
But you can't go back to sleep you can't take a sleeping pill at 4 30 in the morning
You can't call anybody at 4 30 in the morning like it's it's the real reckoning hour and
And a wrecking ball of an hour if you're in a bad state and I was in
One of those fits of despair and I to this day don't know
Where it came from I mean it was a gift from the beyond but the message came
Open up a notebook and write to yourself and this was the exact direction
Write to yourself the exact words that you have always wanted to hear somebody else say to you
And that's a really easy direction for most people. I mean, it's difficult
Sometimes when I tell people to write themselves a letter from unconditional love. They don't know what that means
But if I say
Write the thing that you wish
Somebody would say to you
Suddenly they know the answer to that right. It's like the thing we've been
longing for or dreaming of or fantasizing about and so for me the letter was um
Not much different than the ones I get now 25 years later 30 years later. It was like
First of all, I love you
I don't need you to be any different than you are
In order to love you. You don't have to earn my love
You can't lose my love
You were born with this I'll be with you through all of this. I'm not going anywhere
you're not alone and
For me, I think the most transformative
language in that letter was
There's nowhere else in the universe. I would rather be
Than sitting here with you right now
And I have nowhere else that's more important to be
That's what I had been missing my whole life was you know even in childhood
I mean especially in childhood was
Somebody's undivided attention. You know somebody's undivided attention saying I know you're having a hard time
I'm going to sit with you and I don't have 27,000 other things I need to be doing
I'm just going to sit here with you. I'm just going to be with you
And the letter went on to say I was debating whether or not to go back on it depressants at that time
And it said if you need to do that I will love you
If you decide not to do that I will love you
If you're depressed for the rest of your life. I'll love you
You know these major points of like you don't need to be different than you are you don't need to improve
Because when you're in that state that's so low improvement just seems so impossible
And to have some entity say to you that's all right
It's not required that you get better. It's not required that you ever become happy. It's not required that you become successful
I just love you and I'm not going anywhere and that was the beginning of of this practice that I've now done
For almost three decades since then and that has gotten me through I've never had a really hard times since then
But I've never gotten as low as that
Because this is the ultimate safety net. This is this practice is the thing that will catch me before I get that low
Yeah, I mean, it's so powerful right there are a couple things that really strike me about that
Part of it is this surrender to the notion of the fact that you know what I may or may not ever hear these words from somebody outside of me in my life
God willing unfortunate you like that I have blessings and I do
But
What would happen if I almost assumed that I won't you know this is sort of like brings up the the Buddhist notion of abandoning hope
When I first heard that notion I was that's a terrible idea like who made that
I mean I want to be filled with hope but like when I really understood what it meant which is that
There may be some things that you can control your life
There may be plenty of other things that you can't
But to the extent that sort of like this is me now if I assume I'm not going to rely on that external thing to come and fix something for me
If I abandon hope of that
Then what like what do I actually start to do and
It's so odd that and this is partly what you're describing that this notion of abandoning hope can also really
Seed agency in so many ways which is a little encounter on to it, I think
Yeah, you know that line in the doubted-ching hope is as hollow as fear
And I also as a good red-ploded American did not like that when I read you know I was like
Well, no, that's not okay
And hope and fear are not the same thing and you have to have you know, but but in fact hope is a weird
Varietal of fear
It's like I'm fearing that I won't be able to endure
If this continues and so I have to have hope that it's going to end
Usually that's founded most things end, you know
Most things there are psych like most things change eventually, but when you're in the crucible of pain
And you can't find that and you can't reach that
To be told to have hope is almost cruel
But to be told that the way that you're feeling is
Is okay and understandable and nobody's going to make you
Advanced beyond
Where you are
One of the things that unconditional love often says to me is
I'm never going to make you do anything before you're ready
And that's something that no human has ever said to me either
Because because you know we're humans and I've never said to anybody else because I've got my own agendas of like
What I want and when I want it and you know, and it's like this idea that there could be a force in the universe
That is perfectly comfortable
with you exactly
Where you are and what state you are at whatever level of evolution doesn't need you
To hasten that knows that you can't
in a strange way
brings
This serenity in which then transformation might actually be possible once I'm off the hook
You know once once I've been promised that I'm worthy and and loved and valued
whether or not I'm
happy or contented or productive or efficient or admired
Now I have a little space, you know, I have a little space and I might actually be able to move to the next step
I'm curious how you what you're taking is on this um, I love the word transformation
Years back when I was sort of like deeply immersed in the world of yoga
I was introduced to the concept of not transformation but liberation like the Sanskrit phrase jifa mukti or jifa mukti
Literally translates to liberated being and the notion
It struck me as being different from transformation because the notion was
I'm not becoming something else
I'm stripping away all that obscures my ability to see who I've always been
And that's enough. I'm curious. Do you make a similar distinction there?
I mean, I don't think I've put it as eloquently because I haven't been living in the thought of it as you obviously have
But I'm grateful for that. I like that. It resonates within my body
Mokshah is the other word that I love of liberation
And mokshah is what we've been promised
I really do feel that that like liberation is what we have been promised
But boy do you have to let go of a lot of stuff before you can have it
I mean you sort of trade
Everything for it
That's what I think and as somebody who's recently meaning in the last five years come into 12 step recovery
And that voice of love has been the higher power that's been guiding me through addiction recovery
You know, I hear again and again in these dialogues that I'm having with unconditional love
sweetheart, I want you to put that down now
You know, I want you to put that down now. We don't need that now
You needed it. So you're not in trouble that you needed it. You needed it very much
But you don't need it anymore and the phrase I always hear in my head or read in these letters is
put it on the divine fire and walk away
And whatever it is I mean anybody who's listening to this knows what they're what their it is whether it's a substance or a person or a or an outcome
Or even grief you know or rage or resentment all of it
The promise of liberation and the promise of moxia is you can have it
But you got a lot you got a lot to put on the divine fire and that's your role in it right like
And also don't reach back in and take it back
Once you put it on the fire
Don't be putting your like
Asbestos gloves on and like raking a few things back out. You know, it's like no put it take put it down
You know put it down walk away and walk toward
It's not even a walking away. It's a walking toward
You know walk toward
Love and liberation
You the other thing that jumps out at me also the way you describe especially that first experience of it
Was this notion that
You asked the question you're like what what would I love somebody else to say to me in this moment and then
It's almost like you're not anthropomorphizing love
Uh, because love just is right like I don't think it's like oh this is other person saying it to me
But like you're very intentional about saying
This is coming from outside somewhere and it's almost like pouring into it's pouring through me
And yet it's coming from you at the same time
Both both yeah, um, I mean it's
I have a friend who's an IFS practitioner and she
Was telling me about that's internal family systems therapy for those who don't know
But it's it's essentially family therapy within your own mind
It's group therapy with all the different voices in your head learning how how to help them all speak to each other from a place of understanding and respect and
One of the things that that she was telling me about is that there's neurological research
Which I am so into all the crazy wild neurological research that we have at our fingertips now to back up this stuff
But if I say to you Jonathan, how do you feel about yourself?
And then I say to you how do you feel towards yourself?
It's gonna feel differently. It actually takes you into a different part of your brain
So how do you feel about yourself is judgment and how do you feel towards yourself creates a sense of empathy
where you can see
this being
Who is maybe suffering and maybe struggling you can have some sympathy for the predicament the karmic predicament that they're in
like wow, it's tough to be a person it's tough to be Jonathan like some days
It's wow. I see that I feel a lot of sympathy toward this person
I feel a lot of care toward this person. They're really doing their best
And that's a very different mindset than asking someone how they feel about themselves
Because then you're gonna bring up the grocery list of all your faults and all your things that need to be transformed and everything that's wrong with you
And we have enough of that you know like we have enough of that most of us got enough of that in our families and in our cultures
And we care that in so
Writing a letter from love is is turning toward yourself
depression and anxiety is thinking about yourself and
Writing these words of kindness is is a turning toward
You know, I refuse to believe that it's not coming from an external source
I don't have any reason not to believe it because I
Don't even know where that idea came from
That initial inspiration. I never know what it's gonna say. I never know what love is gonna say
It changes by the day. I mean the basics are always the same like I love you
There's nothing you can do to lose that
You're my beloved. There's nowhere else. I'd rather be than here with you. I've got you
I'll be with you. Everyone else can come and go
We're you know, we're here
That's the same but then there's often very specific direction
And sometimes love tells me what it wants me to do and sometimes love tells me what it wants me to stop doing
sometimes love tells me
Who to call and how to show up in service to the world and the work that it wants me to be doing and then sometimes it tells me
to retreat and
To let the world take care of itself and to find my center again and to turn off my phone
And it's different by the day because my needs are different by the day
You know, if this is not a one and done practice. It's not like I got that letter downloaded once and I never needed love again
I needed every day and I needed its direction and its reassurance
And I also need to know that even if I am not able to carry out what it asked me to do
That it will still be there tomorrow
I love how you describe it existing outside of you
And it's also really consistent with sort of your broader thoughts on things like ideas
Creativity the muse
God however people like you know do or don't understand or describe that experience but um
It seems like there's also there's there's this openness
To accept the fact that there is something out there, you know, just call it what you may there is some
Akashic feel connectedness. There's some energy. Maybe it's maybe there are different energies. Maybe it's all just
The same cosmic soup, you know, that we're floating around in without any sense of you know, like awareness
But I wonder if that notion
That there's something else out there that that is always there
That has a benevolence to it and that part of our work is actually to open to it
It takes a bit of the pressure off of us
Do you have that sense?
100% and one of the things that I put on the divine fire and walked away from and gave up on was
Living a life of non-duality
Because I chased that for a really long time because you know
I read a lot of books and it sounded awesome and I wanted to be that and it seemed like that's what enlightenment was and I
Need there so far. I mean this might change and I might have some sort of massive spontaneous awakening experience
But I don't need that I
The way that my mind is constructed and the way that my heart is constructed
If anything, I'm more of a bhakti yoga. I'm like I'm here for the path of devotion and for devotion you have to have to
There's no you can't really bhakti yogi your way into one
Like one this because then there's no one to be devoted to and there's no one to love me and
My love languages love, you know, so so I need there to be
something
An intelligence a consciousness a presence a creation an ongoing creation in the universe that I am
separate from
Like made from part of but
Stand apart from and look at you know, I gaze I gaze at it with wonder and it gazes back at me
That really works for me and so for that I need a god
And I get to have one because I need one
I get to have one that's the great thing. I had this wonderful moment when I was working the 12 steps and recovery in my my sponsor when we got to step three which is
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the caravans that god of understanding of our understanding
You know, I thought I had that sort of down because I've always been a spiritual person
But she gave me this extraordinary assignment
For that step that was like like really blew my mind open
She said I want you to write a list of what you're looking for in a god
Um like I want to add like what you're like a what are the traits that you would need to have
In a higher power for you to turn your life over to that higher power because no one's seeking yeah
Yeah exactly exactly
I want to be with animals you know long walks on the beads
Precisely right and I was like I think of myself as an open thinker, but I was like you can't do that you know like
You can't do that. I mean you get the god that you get you know like you get the god that's been assigned you
But why
One of the features of a god that I could love would be
allowing itself to move into the shape of whatever I needed it to be
Because I needed that and it would provide that and be like okay, you need a god in this form here. I'll be that
Right, I'll be that because I want to connect with you and this is what's going to work
So this is out. This is how we're going to do it and my list started with unconditionally loving it has to
It just has to be there can't be a small mind to judge mental God. It can't be I won't survive that
I can barely survive my own small-minded judgmental mind
Um, so I need a god who's more expansive than loving than I am and then when I have that
And I have the love of that being then I can start to put things on the divine fire and walk away
You know, I can let go of certain outcomes and be like okay, that's actually
Really might be all I need
And the less I need the more I can serve
Because the more my needs are met my needs are met then I'm not manipulating people and I'm not trying to
hustle anybody and I'm not
subtly trying to make sure that I get my needs met through other human beings. So
It's working for me. It's a beautiful exercise. You're allowed to do it. You're allowed to design your it's like a build a bear
You can you can design your own deity
I love that just that notion of like a like a wanted ad you know like what would that look like um
And then we're describing it also, you know, it's so cool because
Yeah, how many people have stayed in relationships way longer than they know they should have been in them
Because we're afraid that you know, well, it's not healthy. It's not nursing
It's not giving me what I want and need and yearn for but it's there and it's got to be better than you know
Like nothing and what if nothing ever comes along again?
And what this tees up is this notion that
Well, that would still be okay actually because you're still held like by something bigger that exists outside of yourself
It may still suck as maybe brutal going through like whatever that you know transition moment is but
There's always going to be this thing and
It creates a bit of like a soft landing or a softer landing maybe for experiences that we grasp desperately
To it may not really be for us. So I love this notion
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I keep in my home studio and have been talking about for a long time now
So even though I talk for a living my vocal pipes could use some help dealing with indoor air which can contain so many different irritants
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I wanted to sum the mechanics with you here
Oh, so you know small part because you've asked me to write one of these of course I have you didn't the cure
So I've been noodling on it a bunch and we had this exchange where I was saying you know like I've had this really interesting moment over like you know
A couple of conversations over you know period of a number of months
Talking to different people sometimes people who were like just overtly really struggling in the season of the life
Some people you look at them from the outside looking in the like they seem to have everything
Like they've accomplished everything like how could I and and the scene kept coming up over and over and over
Which is this feeling of having fallen behind in your own life
So we had a quick back and forth and you were like that
I want you to write a letter of love it like and like speak to this in that and
My first impulse was oh hell now
But it's you
I love you and I was like and I've been following along with the letters that you've been sharing
And I'm like yeah, this feels like it's actually um it would be really good
So I've been thinking a little bit more and just thinking about it
While I think about it, you know questions come up like how do I actually do this and is there sort of like a a hit list of
Jews and don'ts
Or is it completely contrary to what the entire thing is even about in the first place
So even when I'm thinking about this when I'm sort of saying okay, so I want to sit down and actually do this thing
And you kind of keep up like the basic things I think earlier in our conversation
But one of the things that comes up sort of like right away
Is and you and I have been writing in various forms for quote the public for a long long long time
We're creating for the public in a long long time and granted hopefully we're creating for ourselves at the same time
It just happens to resonate with people beyond ourselves
But at the same time it's really hard to get that voice out of your head that says
I'm not just writing for me
This has got to be something let me extol on this or let me think about the language
Let me you know
Oh, this is phrased in a way. I need to work this sentence right
And I started I caught myself like even in the very beginning
Parts of just noodling on this caught myself just drifting into all these different places
And wondering I'm like is that okay or is that just completely not what it's about. Oh gosh
Well
Thinking is of course not what we're doing here
So right away
Lost to get
And you know, it's interesting
The people who seem to sometimes have the biggest obstacles doing this practice are people
like you
And me are used to writing and creating content
For the public and so we're very self-conscious writers
This is an intuitive and mystical experience not an intellectual
Or in a weird way even emotional experience
There's a surrender in it. There's a leap of faith
And what I would would invite you to do
is
To instead of noodling on one letter
to
Write one every day and set the timer for five minutes
And when you're done step away from it
Because my experience is anything much more than five minutes and then now I now I'm involved right
I'm going to be editing. I'm going to be improving sentences, you know
The letters that you've been seeing me read
On the sub-stack on the newsletter. I write those in five minutes
And I don't edit them
Because it's better if I'm not the one writing it
So the way that I teach it there's also if if anyone is interested in this
I found out 20 years after I started doing this that there's this
This isn't official practice called two-way prayer. I didn't know there was a name for it
Interestingly it came out of
The early alcoholics anonymous groups
Bill W did it
Dr. Bob did it any of you who know these like early AA all stars
They had this practice the Oxford group that people who started the first alcoholics anonymous fellowships
For some reason it didn't end up in the big book of AA
But it's in their history that
Bill W
Apparently believed that there was no more important practice that a recovering addict of any kind could have than this
As a daily practice
that it was
more important to write these
What he called two-way prayers and the way that they taught it
That it was more important to do these two-way prayers than it was to go to meetings
Than it was to have a sponsor
Because you're getting direct divine revelation specifically tailored for you
If you're reading spiritual books you're reading somebody else's direct divine spiritual
Revelation that was specifically tailored to them
But interestingly the way he suggested that you begin the practice is you sit quietly for a minute and then you read a
spiritual
text of some sort that opens your heart
That moves you profoundly
So for me it's reading any page of song of myself by Walt Whitman
Which is like a psalm to me
Anything by Mary Oliver
David White's poetry
It's a poet who do it for me right? So if I were having trouble accessing love
I would I would read one of their poems and
The way I've heard it described is you know those people had
Hafiz Rumi other fantastic right they were hearing loves voice
And they were writing down what they heard so when you read their work
They were kind enough to leave the door open
That's how I see it's like so you're gonna draft in right after them right like so you're gonna
They left the door open to love your heart opens
You get that residual heart, you know the contact high of being around Hafiz Rumi or Mary Oliver or Walt Whitman or the Psalms or any of the great spiritual writing
You're open and then in the next moment you open up a notebook and you write we only want to hear from you once
It's not a deposition. It's not an interview because once your dialogue and you're bringing your intellect back in
And that's what we're trying to do a workaround around right so the question that opens the door
You say dear love what would you have me know today?
And better not to ask about a specific thing better because I don't even know what I don't know
You know and if I bring love
A problem that I'm working on I'm gonna bring the problem into the page right lots of times
I open up the page and I write dear love what would you have me know and I'm expecting that they're gonna solve
Some interpersonal problem I have but I always call them they
The answer is something entirely different, you know, it's like sweetheart first of all we need you to drink a
big glass of water
You know like oftentimes it's like the most basic care. It's like why are you wearing a bra?
It's four o'clock in the afternoon
Take that off drink a big glass of water take your shoes off turn your phone off and sit with us for a moment because we have things to tell you and your tense
And we want you to hear right sometimes that's what comes through
So what I would invite you to do is
To not noodle on it and to not think about it and to not plan it and to not bring a problem to love's feet
But to just bring yourself empty handed after having read something that opens your heart and that one question
Dear love, what would you have me know today?
And then the other thing that's advised is that the first line that you write back to yourself should be an
Endearment
Because that softens your heart towards yourself a nickname
sweetheart
Honeybunch
Love love head my little tiny turtle
My precious little striver my tendril of ivy my little pine cone my little bunny ass like I see you and I love you like
Something that's very dear one of the first exercises that I had people do
When we did this was just to write lists of endearments
Because they make you laugh and they're silly and and we all
call our pets
By a thousand different endearments. We all call children by a thousand different endearments and
My dad used to say the much loved child has many nicknames
You know you are a much loved child of God
Honeyhead is the thing that I'm always called in love like honeyhead honeyhead calm down right
So the next line should be an endearment my sweetheart my my darling my precious
I'm right here and then see what it has to say and at first
It's going to be
The act of faith at first is that it's going to start as an act of imagination before it becomes an act of faith
So the imagination that you step into is imagining
What would unconditional love say if it could speak to me?
What would it want me to know?
What would it say?
That's the act of imagination
But very soon I promise if you do this for five minutes a day and you don't think about it too much
Very soon it will stop being an act of imagination and it will start being an act of intuition and
Something's just going to start flowing out of that pen. I also recommend that you write by hand
And not on a laptop because
There's something more connected about paper and pen than there is about like I've gotten assignment and now I'm going to type it on
You know um and
Yeah, it's there's something tactile about that and um and you set the the timer for five minutes
And you just see what what unconditional love has to say to you and and then you just look back at it
And if it sounds like the voice of love then it is
You know like you don't have to wonder like was this god?
Is this an angel am I connected to source?
Is there anything that you wrote that doesn't sound loving?
Probably there won't be so even if it feels very
Fassal and sort of embarrassing and weird and self-conscious even if it's just saying I love you
You're doing a good job. I'm not going anywhere. I'm proud of you. I'm with you
That is the voice of love. It doesn't have to be more complex than that
um
We don't need you to be smart
You're plenty smart like I'm super fucking smart and I've nearly killed myself a few times because of lack of love
You know, so it's not about being poetic. It's not about being a good writer
It's not about being
Having something to offer the world that's original
You know, we have enough originality what we don't have is love
So I don't know if that's if that's helpful, but that would be my guidance
super super helpful
and the notion of
Because I was also kind of looking at it as like I got to write this one letter and like
I just used the word phrase got it in there which like already is
Nope
Let's just re-write like like I get to do this you know like this is a beautiful thing and then
And then the notion of thinking of is like well, what if you phrase is not just like I'm gonna sit down to this
If I want to tell what I just say yes to this as a practice for while as he how it feels and the screen stream of consciousness part of it is also
So much lighter as you're describing it one of the questions that came into my mind also is
So you know as we have this conversation about in California and you're in New York, but um
Very fortunate to have Colorado as my my home these days
And I'm in the mountains all the time I hike all the time is that's my the place I touch stone is one of my new woods
And also my ocean, but um
I just completely lose myself and I find as I do that my mom clears
I feel connected to whatever it is that thing that you might describe this source or god a universe
Whatever it may be that that's my place and
And at the same time often things just
Feeling you flood me and but also language flood me ideas um concepts and I'll often find myself
I generally I try not to actually listen to anything when I'm out there. We just want to be immersed in the sounds and the sights and
But sometimes something will just come to me a revelation and awakening some whatever it may be and I'll pull out my like
Telephone and I'll just want to record it by voice as quickly as I can
Because it's just I feel like it's kind of pouring through me at that moment and
I wonder if you see that as a potentially viable way to say yes to this also you already are it's happening already
Yeah, so dude don't you see it yeah, you're in it. You're soaking in it. It's already there
You know as close as that I also was thinking as you were sharing about that um
St. Augustine how to a phrase solvator ambulando
That means it is solved by walking
We know this if you're able bodied and and lucky and privileged enough to be able to walk
That going for a walk. I've always thought is like sort of resetting a grandfather clock. It's like
You know, it does something we're meant to move at that speed we're meant to be in trees we're meant to be outdoors
So it definitely opens it up and I would say well you're out there
Since that channel is already open to you and you trust it and it wants to commune with you obviously because
It's pouring words into you and wants to talk to you
Ask it directly. What do you want me to know?
Right now
What do you want me to know is such a good question because it's not what do you want me to do?
Who do you want me to become?
What do you want me to change? What's your mission for me? You know we're so mission driven in the West
I think love just wants to be known
And it wants you to know that it knows you and that it cares and that it sees you and sees you seeing it
You know, I think this is so revelatory for me because I was taught to pray
In a way that's really just me talking
Or reading prayers that other people wrote I was taught that that's what prayer is
That you're you're just pouring out of yourself into the emptiness or into the void or into the oneness or into the god
Are you there? God is there anybody listening? Prayer was really a lot of my voice and
Two-way prayer
There's very little of me. There's just me asking a question. It's very humbling practice
And I always when I teach it to people I have worn them against getting into a dialogue
It's tempting as it is because
That's my ego wanting to be involved. That's my ego wanting to be like who are you?
What are you doing? What is your you know like my ego is like a three-year-old who has a million questions
But I really only need the one
Which is what would you have me know right now?
What would you have me know today and sometimes if there's a difficult situation
What would you have me know about this situation?
But what would you have me know right now really works and then you're not talking you're listening
And isn't that better as you're describing that in the notty log and then
Question is sort of popped into my head which is and this hasn't happened to me yet
There's always opportunities, but I would imagine that there's somebody listening to this right now
Like this sounds really cool and maybe they even tried it and either they've had this experience or there's a fear built around it
Which is what did I say yes to this and I sit down and flip open and you know like my notebook and have a pencil my favorite pencil in the hand
And I say dear love what would you have me know now and nothing comes
Hmm would that
Reinforced a sense of abandonment that you were
Stepping into this experience with has that ever happened to you or have you
Ex- had that happen to other people where you had a conversation around it
It's never happened to me that I've asked for it and it's not there and
There've even been times when I've been enraged at it
Where things were happening in my life that were so unfair and awful
And I've just been enraged
And that voice has been there saying I see your rage and I see your disgust and your exhaustion
And I don't have any answers for you, but I love you
And I don't know how you're gonna get out of this
I remember when my partner Ray was dying of cancer and had relapsed into drug addiction
And it was absolute nightmare
I remember demanding answers of love. I mean this is going back to the dialogue right which is my ego inserting itself
And saying like how is this gonna end and love said to me
I don't know
The future isn't my department
And I said well then what good are you like if you can't tell me what's gonna happen
And you can't tell me what to do
Then what you saw you what good are you and love said I am
Company for you in your darkest hour and that's really all love is right?
It's like it's not here to solve. It's not here to fix. It's just here to be present
Like to keep you company when you're going through something
As for the fear that you're gonna ask
Love what it has to say and it's not gonna answer
This is I think the main reason people won't do this exercise
Hmm that that risk seems so terrible and so frightening
And if you've been falling along with the substack and the newsletter
So it's been six months now that I've been doing this and every week I have a special guest and almost every week
It's the first time somebody is doing this and they're terrified
They're so terrified that they're gonna knock in the door is not gonna open
Glenn and Doyle spoke about this Abby Womback spoke about this, you know they they all
spoke to this clover stride this great British writer who's this week's guest spoke about this
I don't believe that anything is going to be there
I dare us to be courageous enough
To take that risk I dare us to I see the things that people do that are so risky
You know I see I love in New York
I see the way people cross the street with their headphones in and a hood up over themselves jay walking against traffic
I see that how people drive and text at the same time and take that risk that they might die. I see
The way people
abandon themselves into substances and
Take the risk of cigarettes and take the risk of alcohol and take the risk of a lover who's abusive and
Take the risk to gamble
You know even what we call recreation and fun, you know like most of what I see people doing
This called recreation fun just seems like
Wow, I'm really kind of throwing my life away into this thing like I could die
People take risks every single day yet this one
asking somebody to be courageous enough to open up a blank notebook and write dear love
What would you have me know and then imagine
What unconditional love would say to them feels like oh, well, that's a bridge too far. I'm not doing that
And I call people out on that because I'm like I've seen this I've seen the risks you've taken in your life
You know, I dare you to take this risk and to see and I think that
largely the reason that we're so frightened to do it is because we've never experienced it
Like nobody ever loved us unconditionally
Because I don't think humans can
I mean, we're supposed to allegedly get that from
From our parents, but if you're like me you had beleaguered parents who were exhausted and traumatized and
Just trying to get through the day and overwhelmed and we're not available to that
At through no fault of their own their parents weren't either
So if we've never experienced it and all we can associate it with is human love which is
By nature limited and conditional
Even the most vast human love has its limits
Somebody can love you unconditionally and they can die
You know like they will have to die. They might not be there tomorrow
You know if we can't
Count on that
And I don't say that in a way of like count on people
You know we count on people as much as we can but
We're fallible and we're fragile and
You know, I know somebody whose father was her closest source of unconditional love
And then he got all timers and he didn't even know she was anymore
So these things can be taken from us
But there is a source that cannot be taken
And I would submit that you have had experience with
Comforting another living being in your life
Even if you haven't been comforted
I would suspect that everybody who
Listening to this has at some point in their life
Held someone in their arms and said I'm right here. I've got you
Held a trembling animal held a crying child
You know how to do it
So I'm not buying that you don't know how to do it
You know
How to hold something and how to reassure it with your presence you've done it
You've done it you just haven't done it towards yourself
And maybe you haven't gotten enough of it towards yourself that you believe that it's out there
But you've done it and so if nothing's coming on the page
Imagine that you are speaking to somebody
Who's suffering?
Imagine that you're speaking to somebody who's afraid that love isn't real
Imagine that you're speaking. I mean how it shouldn't be hard to imagine that we've all been afraid of it
You know like
Imagine that you're consoling
Somebody who's going through whatever you're going through right now
Or a pet or an animal or a child
It's in you. It's in you and this is what I find astonishing as I'm reading the letters that people share on this newsletter that people are writing
People who never had it shown to them
Have it in them
It's not a prerequisite that you were tenderly and gently loved as a child for you to be able to find this
Within you're longing for it is in fact it the doorway to it
You know walking through that doorway of longing
Into love itself is how you'll find it so
So I would ask that you try it and then I would ask that you try it again
And then I would ask that you try it again because this is your inheritance
You are allowed to be loved
It's too hard without it
We can't survive without it and we all know that but we all think it means that we have to go seek it out and
Drag it out of another person or manipulate it or force it out of another human being or who's going to see me love me care for me
And one thing that love says to me often in the pages is why would we set the system up to make it so
Hard for you. Why would we set the system up so that the only place you could get this was if you could coerce another human being into giving it to you
That would turn you into a beggar
That would turn you into a desperate beggar for your entire life and I'm like well, that's what I've been
That's what I've been and loves like well, you don't have to beg
You have a fountain. It's it's it's Tolstoy's beggar sitting on the pot of gold begging for spare change
Not knowing that that he's sitting on a pot of gold. This is all in you already
I believe that I believe it because I've found it
After years of looking it's the last place I looked
It's like car keys are always the last place you look. It's like the last place I looked for love was was from
From within but there was
No, that resonates really deeply
I
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You referenced a couple of times in an in conversation that about six months ago
You decided you know this practice is it's not just for me
This practice is something that I want to really share more publicly and so invite a global community into and you've launched
newsletter and
um letters from love and willing to this and um
Every week you share you know one letter from love that you've written to yourself and you also invite
Others to share a letter on a weekly basis. Um, I will be sharing mind with that that community as well
And then the community around it often shares so deeply and so beautifully and so openly like what what their
apparently voice is saying to them i'm wondering six months into this experience now
How has it been for you? What surprised you? Oh my gosh. It's so magical. I mean
This is something that was born of my darkest moment of pain and isolation
And now we have 90,000 people across the world
Practicing this together like what you know if I were to flash back to my 30 year old self and say like in those awful nights of the worst
And be like oh sweetheart
Something so incredible is gonna come out of this
Oh gosh just keep going you've almost reached the door right like you've almost reached the door like
Something extraordinary is going to come out of this
This is so worth it every lifetime from now till the end of time for this outcome
For sure
So there's that sense of astonishment. I'm amazed at how quickly people take to it
How it's you know again the less thinking the better you know dive in
And how vulnerable and openly people are willing to share it part of it is because of the way we've structured it
I also love that I'm creating this project with my best friend Margaret from college
She's been my friend for 35 years and she's doing all the administrative stuff and I'm doing the writing and the
And the videos and you know responding to people's letters, but
You know we
Substack is this relatively new
Format that people are just learning their way through and let a lot of people there are refugees from social media and
The social media having become such a toxic and addictive and destructive element
Really all substack is it's just a blogging service. It's really going backwards and it's like back to the original
Get people's email dresses and send them an email every week and that's that's all it is. It's a 1990s technology
But it's much less addictive for that and more specific and people are
Subscribing and then once they subscribe I put out everything that I do for free
But I have a the lowest paywall that we could get through substack which is the $50 a month and
Or $50 a year rather so it's 94 cents a month
I'm sorry 94 cents a week
90% a week for this is the lowest we could get the price down to have a little bit of a paywall
And behind the paywall people can comment and that tiny paywall prevents trolls
It's an absolutely safe space. That's the thing that I find so incredible and I was promised that I mean
I have a lot of trauma about social media and things that get set in social media
But I was promised by people who are on substack like you're not going to see any of that. There's no attacking. There's no
You know, this is genuinely a safe space and I also put the letters that my special guests right behind the paywall because it's
vulnerable I mean people are showing
The heart of their heart and the pain of their pain and the longing of their longing at the deepest level
And so there's a little wall around it and that I think of it as like a walled garden like a Persian walled garden
Inside of that wall is safety is abundance is fellowship
And now the people who have been writing letters and sharing them are making friends with each other and they're having meetups
They're teaching their kids how to do this they're teaching some of the more their teachers and they're teaching their students how to do this practice
And then they're adapting it to themselves one woman said that every morning when she wakes up now
It's before she even opens her eyes the first question she asks is
Dear love, what would you have me know right now?
And and she can hear it she can hear an answer
So she's starting her day within people are using it to get themselves through
Deaths of loved ones and you know the horrible tragedies of life and
Their own cancer diagnoses and their fear of the world and what I find also astonishing after having read tens of thousands of these letters in the last six months or so is that
How similar the letters are
It's like we are all tuning into the same
radio station here
Like something is speaking to each one of us
With the same tenderness the same humor even
You know, there's a lot of like sort of roofal humor that comes through in these letters where
Where love will be like oh don't you love your little plans?
We love watching you make your little plans keep making them they're adorable
They're probably not all gonna come true. It's okay. It doesn't matter. You're not supposed to the everything that I hear resonating again
And again and again and again in these letters, which I think is amazing is um
That love often says to people I don't care about good and bad and right and wrong
It's a very interesting thing for me and I've heard this in my letters too because I can get into such guilt spirals
If I think that I've done anything wrong and I'm so desperate to be morally perfect and I'm so desperate to be ethical and to have integrity and
I'm always so afraid that I'm doing it wrong
And I'm hearing not just in my letters, but in the letters that unconditional love is writing to people like I don't care about your morality
I don't care about your ethics. I'm not here to gauge that. I'm not here to judge that
You're killing yourself with these morals. You're killing yourself with these standards
You're fine
Like you're fine just the way you are. I know all the stuff you've done. It's okay
It doesn't matter
And this idea that like good, bad and right and wrong don't matter. It's it's like that line of
Out there beyond right doing and wrong doing there's a field. I'll meet you there
We seem to be meeting on that field
And that's a really scary thing talk about things to put on the fire and walk away from that's a scary thing to walk away from
Because I'm like well if there's no morality and there's no right or wrong
How's anybody gonna be safe and what are the rules and how do I know if I'm good or bad and then loves like I don't care
You know, I don't care. I just love you and care about you and I'm here with you
And it's all right. I'm not judging you. You're not getting graded on the neapis
And what an incredible relief that is so to see that show up in so many in the letters of so many strangers and to be like wow
Okay, that's what unconditional love is
That's
amazing
It really is powerful and to see so many people showing up
and
Being willing to be seen
Is really powerful also because it isn't I think it inspires you. You're like wait a minute
They're doing this and oftentimes they're doing it week after week and at scale
And it's okay. It's better than okay. You know like there's something really magical about it
And it's just deeply compelling from the outside looking in having seen what you've created
It's deeply compelling for me and I was imagining from the inside looking out
It had to have been for you as well and you sir. You've confirmed that
We are going to air this episode on the same day
That you will be sharing a my letter from love your community
So for all of our fabulous listeners if you've enjoyed this conversation you're inspired um and you're curious
after um
It's very explicitly told me stop noodling and just do it
But what actually comes out you will be able to find it will include a link in the show notes
But my all means head over there and
Explore this practice yourself. There's something truly powerful about it
And then even being in community when you're doing it. I think it's really
There's something really cool about it
So
As we always do and I've asked you this a couple of times over the years now, but you know
Years pass and we change um in this container of a good life project
If I offer up the phrase to live a good life what comes up
Well, just say what just came to mind which is um
To be careful with yourself
I've never said those words before or thought them, but that's what came to mind and it just actually made me get a little teary
I understand that to mean
To know your own preciousness
And to know your own
just exquisite tender
Sweetness
and to treat yourself accordingly as a very rare
miraculous being and to know that that you're worthy of all gentleness and
and kindness
And one of the things that inspired me to want to take this practice public was the
I mean famous within these circles. I don't know if it's famous out in the wider world, but Sharon Salzburg the
great meditation teacher was one of the first people
One of the first Americans to meet the Dalai Lama
And she was in the room with him when he came to California
I think it was California or somewhere in the Pacific Northwest maybe but um
Long ago and know like kind of no one knew who he was and
So this group of intellectuals and theologians and spiritual people had gathered to hear him speak
And they had questions and somebody in the room asked him
If he could give any guidance about how to handle self-hatred
And he had to speak to a translator for like 10 minutes
To even understand the question
Because he kept thinking that he was misunderstood he was like
Who do you hate?
Who's the enemy and when and people were like when it's yourself when it's yourself who's the enemy and he
He had never heard of this
Now this is the most common headset of the Western mind to us. It's just a normal Tuesday
You know, but to him he was like this is not okay
And he was saying you know
You are
The one
Who you're going to be traveling with
Through this entire journey of life like you are your own companion
How could you turn on that person and hate them?
You're left with nothing if you hate that person. What do you have you've got nothing like
This is who you're supposed to be the most tender to
And the most kind to
Later he would write that he had to start telling people like treat yourself the way your mother would treat you
And then he found out what mothers in the West are like and he was like okay never mind grandmother
Like how far back do we have to go to find somebody who was kind?
But that's what I hear is a good life is a life where you really are careful
And tender with your with your own preciousness
Thank you
Hey before you leave if you love this episode safe bet you'll also love the earlier conversation
We have with Elizabeth Gilbert about navigating love and loss and finding lightness again
You'll find a link to that episode in the show notes
This episode of Good Life project was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and me Jonathan Fields
Editing help by Alejandro Ramirez Christopher Carter crafted our theme music and special thanks to Shelley Del for her research on this episode
And of course if you haven't already done so please go ahead and follow Good Life project in your favorite listening app
And if you found this conversation interesting or inspiring or valuable and chances are you did since you're still listening here
Would you do me a personal favor a seven second favor and share it maybe on social or by text or by email
Even just with one person just copy the link from the app you're using and tell those you know those you love those you want to help
Navigate this thing called life a little better so we can all do it better together with more ease and more joy
Tell them to listen then even invite them to talk about what you've both discovered because when podcasts become
Conversations and conversations become action. That's how we all come alive together
Until next time on Jonathan Fields signing off for Good Life project
You
