Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
I just got out of the studio here in Boston.
I am so excited about the episode you're about to experience.
I cannot wait for you to meet our guest today, Dr. Lucia Aronica.
Dr. Aronica is a world-renowned researcher and professor at Stanford University in the field of epigenetics.
She is going to prove to you that food, it isn't just fuel.
It's the pencil that rewrites your health at a genetic level.
How cool is that?
Which means you're not stuck.
No matter what your family history is or the current state of your health, you hold the keys to changing your future.
Your habits and your tendencies right now, they do not determine your destiny.
Because today you're going to learn how eating certain specific foods, foods that you can find in any grocery store, not only make you feel better, but they also help you become a different person at a cellular level.
I mean, this is just mind blowing.
So if you want to feel stronger from the inside out, if you want to know exactly what foods slow down aging naturally, if you want to be more focused and have more joy in your life and see food not as a chore but as something that is powerful and brings pleasure to your everyday experience, this is an invitation.
To sit down with an extraordinary scientist who's not only going to teach you that change is possible, she will show you how your fork is one of the most powerful tools that you have to change your future.
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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
I am absolutely thrilled that you're here.
It is always such an honor to be together and to spend this time with you.
Today's going to be extra special.
You're going to love this.
And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you,
I want to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family, and I cannot wait for you to meet today's guest, Dr. Lucia Aronica.
She is here to teach you how to eat in order to live longer, look younger, and feel better than ever.
Dr. Aronica is a scientist and professor at Stanford University School of Medicine, where she specializes in epigenetics, which is how the choices that you and I make every day, especially what you eat, influence how your genes behave.
And she is a pioneer in the field of epinutrition, a way of understanding food, not just as fuel, but as information that changes you and your body and your health at a cellular level.
Dr. Aronica has almost two decades of research experience in epigenetics.
She earned her PhD in epigenetics from the University of Vienna.
She's led research teams at Oxford and the University of Southern California.
She's published more than 25 peer-reviewed scientific papers in the most renowned medical journals in the world, including Cell and BMC Medicine.
Please help me welcome Dr. Lucia Aronica to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
Thanks Mel for having me.
I'm absolutely excited about our conversation.
I love the way you make science relatable.
Thank you.
I really have a crush on your brain.
So now I'm blushing.
Here's where I want to start.
How could my life be different if I take everything that you're about to teach me today and I take it to heart, I apply it to my life, what might change?
Tomorrow, you'll wake up different.
You look at your eggs, your broccoli, your coffee, and you realize I'm not just eating.
I'm rewriting my future because food isn't just fuel.
It's the pencil that rewrites your genetic instructions.
Starting today, your fork becomes more powerful than your family history.
Right now, you may see diabetes in your mom, heart disease in your dad, anxiety in yourself and think, I'm stuck.
That's just my genes.
But in reality, genes are only 25% of your health story.
And you are rewriting the other 75% right now with every choice and every meal.
And the best part?
You'll never need another diet again.
You'll transform your relationship with food so profoundly that processed food
Won't even register as food anymore, and you'll stop treating your body like a garbage can.
Today, we are putting that pencil back in your hand.
And you are going to rewrite your health story into a masterpiece.
Dr. Erotica.
You came to play.
Holy cow.
You will see the fork as the pencil to rewrite your future.
You will be able to use food to change 75% of what determines your health.
I can't wait to get into all of this research around food and how it unlocks potential in your genes and can change your health forever.
So you are an epigenetics scientist.
What is epigenetics and why should we be as excited about it as you are about what you're about to teach us?
The Greek prefix epi means on the top.
So epigenetic marks are molecular switches
Sitting atop your jeans and turning them up or down, just like a volume knob on a stereo.
This also explains why you go through transformations throughout your life.
Puberty, aging itself, losing weight, gaining weight, building muscles.
All these transformations underlie epigenetic mechanisms.
And here's why you should be excited.
Most of these marks are written in pencil, not in pen.
Every day they are rewritten by enzymes.
We scientists actually call writer and eraser enzymes.
And guess who controls these editors?
Every single thing you do.
What you eat, how you move, how you handle stress, these send signals to the writer and the eraser enzymes.
And that's why in epigenetics,
You are not just a passive reader of your genetic code, but an active writer of your health story every day with every choice.
You hooked me right in the opening couple words.
So I wanna make sure I really understand this because a lot of us blame our genes for a lot of things, right?
Oh, well, you know,
My weight, aging, energy, stress.
My mom had diabetes.
As if everything is set in stone, there's nothing you can do.
So maybe why don't we start with, well, what actually are genes?
And what do they do?
And what's set in stone and what isn't?
Genes are recipes for proteins, the building blocks of everything in our body.
Okay.
These recipes are written
In DNA and variations in the DNA sequence determine variations in the function of these proteins that can affect the way we respond to nutrients, the way we look, even our predisposition to disease.
But here's where people get confused about genetic risk.
Not all genetic variants are created equal.
You hear people say,
Genes load the gun and lifestyle pulls the trigger.
And here's where epigenetics comes in.
A landmark study published in 2016 in the New England Journal of Medicine.
That's a good one.
That's a very good one.
Showed the power of lifestyle over genes.
So 55,000 people with an increased risk of genetic risk for heart disease, if they had a good lifestyle.
Healthy food, exercise regularly, no smoking, they cut their risk in half.
And those with good genes but a bad lifestyle got heart disease anyway.
So really, the genetic risk is written in pencil and you hold the pencil and the eraser too.
This is so exciting.
And it's also a little confronting because if you're the kind of person that was like, well...
You know, heart disease runs in my family.
That doesn't mean that's not true.
But Dr. Aronica is here to say, hey, I have the research and you just said it.
This tendency in your family for these things to happen to people that you're related to does not determine your destiny.
That in almost every single instance,
You hold the pencil and based on the changes that we're going to talk about today, these changes are so powerful that they can activate a different destiny for you moving forward.
You got it.
Wow.
This is so cool.
What would you say to somebody who has just struggled, for example, for a really long time to lose weight or to feel good?
Or to not feel so anxious or depressed or whatever, and they're skeptical because just nothing's worked for them.
I would say you're not stuck.
You are just holding the wrong pencil.
Maybe you think you have tried everything, but here's what I want you to know.
Every time you went on a yo-yo diet, so you lost weight and gained it back.
Your cells created what we call an epigenetic memory of weight gain.
So it's like a problematic software update.
The genes that make, that keep you lean, like those that burn fat, get turned down.
Well, because we don't need them because we're not doing anything, right?
Exactly.
And the ones that make you fat, the inflammatory genes, wake up.
And so your fat cells literally remember being fat and fight to get back to that new normal.
That's why it's so easy to gain back weight.
But there's hope.
At Stanford, we showed that if you lose weight and you keep it off for six months, actually your fat cells unlearn that memory.
They start the process of erasing that memory.
So turning up
The genes that burn fat and down the inflammatory genes.
Now, I know what you're thinking.
I can't stick to a diet for six days, six months sounds too much to me.
Well, I think most people
White knuckle their way through protocols they hate.
And they never tried to make the process enjoyable.
As an Italian, I believe that pleasure isn't the enemy of health.
It's your compass to find it.
Change requires consistency and you can't be consistent with something you hate, but you can be consistent with something you love.
And in Italy, when we eat, we take our time, we share conversations, we sip a glass of wine, we activate multiple pleasure pathways.
And health becomes as natural as breathing.
So here's what I want you to do.
I want you to not just eliminate processed food, but replace it with something you genuinely love.
Something that makes you say, oh, this is what I've been missing.
It can be replacing the instant noodles for a juicy piece of salmon or that Oreo cookie with some sweet berries.
Just find your own version of pleasure.
In six months, your fat cells won't just forget they were fat.
They will remember what it really feels like to be joyfully healthy.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so I have made health my number one goal this year.
And I've been listening to all the experts that come on this podcast.
I not only am interviewing people, but I am absorbing all of this.
And so I've been focusing on resistance training.
I've been focusing on whole foods.
I've been prioritizing high quality protein, really changing lifestyle.
I can't believe over the last six months to a year, I feel like a different person from the inside out.
And you just explained why.
Because by changing these lifestyle levers that really do change the way your genes express, you are changing yourself from the inside out.
Exactly.
These aren't just healthy habits.
They are cellular signals.
Cellular signals to a different life.
This is so cool.
Why did you want to get in and how did you get into this?
I'd never even heard of epigenetics until like a year ago.
Two things.
Okay.
Tradition and tragedy.
Oh.
Tradition
Growing up in an Italian kitchen, food has always been medicine to me.
Yes.
In Italy, food isn't just fuel, it's connection, tradition and pleasure.
And then through my work, I then discovered the molecular mechanisms behind this, really showing that food is the pencil that rewrites our genetic instructions.
And then a tragedy.
I lost my father when I was 14.
He was a dedicated physician, always putting his patients first, calm, strong, and watching him fade away
I decided I wanted to continue his legacy of helping people heal.
But I decided to do it with science, not with medicine.
I wanted to help other doctors like him
Find better approaches to lifestyle medicine.
And so every paper I write, every student I teach is my father's legacy living on.
But then my mom...
Taught me the other half of the equation.
Here's a photo of her.
At 84, she's the picture of true longevity for me.
She's not a hardcore biohacker following complicated protocols.
Well, who the hell has time for that?
Yeah, she doesn't wake up at 5 a.m. in the morning to eat the gym or bounce from cold plunge to sauna or pay...
Take her hundred supplements.
She dresses elegantly.
She's joyful.
She takes time to eat savoring her food.
And she knows.
She is our queen, our flower and our rock.
And this joy and purpose fills her life.
She embodies something that many longevity gurus forget.
Aging isn't just biological.
It's psychological and social and pleasure is part of the equation.
And that became the foundation of everything I teach.
If you're listening.
Uh lucia's mom is wearing this beautiful navy blue dress with a bright red sash and it's got flowers on it
She's got this beautiful like flower red flower uh necklace at the center of her
She's like vibrant and her smile is bright and her eyes are bright and
I can't believe she's 80 in that photo.
84.
84.
Let's give her credit for all the years.
84 birthday.
Happy birthday.
Happy birthday to your mother.
You teach a framework at Stanford that is called eating your way to younger genes.
Let's just start with what does eating your way to younger genes even mean?
Yeah.
So I've established the first program and course in nutritional epigenetics at Stanford.
And I teach a framework that is called epi-nutrition.
Epi-nutrition.
Yeah.
So how to eat...
To improve gene expression for a healthier, longer life.
Well, you know what I'm going to say to that?
I'm going to say Dr. Aaronica passed me the fork.
Here's the fork.
I'm going to explain you how this works.
Oh, I can't wait.
Exactly.
So the concept, the main concept is that food isn't just fuel, it's the pencil that writes your genetic instructions.
And my favorite example is the queen bee.
Have you ever heard of this story?
No.
Okay.
So the queen bee lives 20 times longer than the other bees in the beehive.
Which are called worker bees.
She's also larger and fertile, whereas the workers are sterile.
And yet...
Queen and worker bees are genetically identical.
No, they're not.
Yes, they are.
Wait, queen bees are genetically identical to a worker bee?
Yes.
Same hardware, different software.
And what writes the different software?
Royal jelly.
A substance that the queen larvae eat as they develop.
And this works as the epigenetic queen maker.
It turns on the genes that make the queen a queen.
Now, what's exciting is that we humans
Have nutrients that work like our royal jelly.
And I call them epinutrients.
Okay.
There are two main categories.
The first category, methyl donors.
So think of them as the structural material, the ink to write healthy genetic instructions.
Five main metal donors, methionine in all protein-rich foods.
Okay, so protein.
Yeah, protein-rich foods.
Then you have folate in green leafy vegetables, liver and legumes.
Then you have B12 from animal protein.
Then choline from eggs and liver, primarily, and betaine from beets, spinach, quinoa, and shellfish.
Without this, your genes literally run out of ink.
Then we have the second gene.
Category, okay?
I call this epibioactives, okay?
These are the signals to the rider and the raiser enzymes.
So these regulate the epibioactives, really tell your writer and eraser enzymes what to write and where.
So examples of epibioactives.
We have colorful pigments from colorful fruits and veggies.
Like, for example, think tomatoes, carrots, broccoli, even chocolate and coffee.
Then we have omega-3 fatty acids from fatty fish.
And postbiotics from fermented foods, things like yogurt, kombucha, sauerkraut, kimchi.
Epinutrition is a beautiful friendship between animal and plant foods.
You need both.
You need the ink and...
As we will see later.
Animal foods are really necessary to provide B12 and choline, so a type of ink.
But then you also need the signals, the epibioactives that are primarily represented by plant foods together with omega-3s from fatty fish.
Dr. Aronica, you are just incredible.
I hate to say this because I want to just keep on talking and talking, but I need to hit the pause button so that I can give our sponsors a chance to share a few words.
And Dr. Aronica has so much more to teach us.
So do not go anywhere.
We'll be right back.
Welcome back.
It's your friend Mel.
And today, Stanford University epigenetic scientist, Dr. Lucia Aronica is here teaching you and me how to eat, to live longer, look younger, and feel better than ever.
I am loving this and I'm so glad you're here.
Thank you for sharing this with people that you care about.
So Dr. Aronica,
I want to walk through the specific types of food in this framework so that I really understand and so does the person that is listening or watching.
And if you're listening, we're going to really describe what's happening.
So I'm going to ask our executive producer, Tracy, to come in.
Oh my gosh, this looks delicious.
Thank you, Tracy.
If you could describe, I'm seeing red pepper, chocolate, carrots, tomatoes, garlic, lime, orange, blackberries, broccoli, spinach.
This looks like a rainbow.
It's a rainbow.
So your doctor probably told you to eat the rainbow.
Yes, fruits and veggies.
Yeah, but here's what your doctor may not realize.
These pigments aren't just antioxidants.
They are epinutrients that regulate your writer and eraser enzymes.
And each color represents a different signal.
No way.
Yeah.
So, for example, you have red foods like tomatoes that provide lycopene for cardiovascular benefits.
Tomatoes and the fact that it is an epinutrient.
Means that when you are enjoying a beautiful, red, juicy, amazing tomato, you are not just eating food, you are sending a signal
To your DNA about your heart health and about what else?
Your skin and everything.
The two areas of research are really cardiovascular and skin.
Okay.
So clinical trials have shown that, for example, lycopene can really reduce LDL oxidation, which is the process that makes collagen.
LDL cholesterol, truly dangerous.
It can also work as an internal skincare.
So it actually boosts your SPF, your internal SPF by 40%.
A tomato?
Yes.
How is basically increasing your DNA repair and
And also actively inhibiting the breakdown of collagen and the formation of age spots.
And now, there is, however, a problem.
To see these benefits, these benefits start with 10 milligrams of lycopene in clinical trials that use pills.
Okay.
Now.
And this is equivalent to eating 20 pounds of raw tomatoes a day.
But there is a trick.
If you cook those tomatoes in olive oil or in any type of oil like Italian grandmothers used to do, then you can boost
The absorption of lycopene.
Wow.
Just by cooking the tomato?
Just by cooking.
But this is just step one.
That makes me happy because I'd rather have it on pasta than I would.
But it's just step one.
Okay.
Because then when you add olive oil, you boost...
The availability by an additional 70%.
Why?
Because lycopene is liposoluble and so it can't be absorbed without fat.
And so basically by cooking your tomatoes into a paste with olive oil,
You can cover, you can reach the 10 milligram of lycopene with just three tablespoon of tomato paste.
That's incredible.
You know what?
I got to hand it to you.
When I asked you how my life would change, you said you will never look at food the same again.
I actually don't.
And we're just getting started.
Let's talk about the carrot.
What happens to you or what is the benefit from an epinutrient standpoint when you eat carrots?
Yes.
Carrots and all orange foods, even pumpkin, contain carotenoids.
These carotenoids also are, first of all, a precursor to vitamin A production, and they also work
As internal skincare for you.
Then we have green foods like spinach that provide folate for DNA repair and broccoli.
That's my favorite.
Now, why do you love broccoli?
Okay.
Because broccoli and other cruciferous vegetables in the same family, so we are talking about Brussels sprouts, arugula, kale, this provides an epinutrient called sulforaphane.
Sulforaphane isn't an antioxidant itself, it's better.
It's the boss of your body's own antioxidant army.
It switches on a genetic master switch.
Called NRF2.
This activates more than 200 protective genes involving detoxification, inflammatory defense, antioxidant defense.
And this is the best part.
While direct antioxidants like vitamin C disappear in a few hours, sulforaphane switches on those genes for up to three days.
Wow.
So it's enough to eat cruciferous veggies two, three times a week to keep your antioxidant genes switched on.
But there's a problem.
What's the problem?
Because it sounds pretty good if I'm eating the boss of the army.
The problem is that there's actually no sulforaphane in this broccoli.
Did I buy the wrong kind?
You need to chop it or chew it.
And here's why.
Think of sulforaphane as a glow stick for your jeans.
Professor is in the house.
She's holding a glow stick if you're listening.
So those light up tubes you bring at concerts?
Yes.
When you break them to compound mix.
Starting a light reaction.
And sulforaphane works the same way.
When I chew broccoli, it activates the sulforaphane inside the broccoli?
Exactly.
And this is exactly what happens.
A compound called glucoraphanin mixes with an enzyme called myrosinase.
And boom, this creates sulforaphane.
So the problem is that most people buy frozen broccoli and frozen broccoli is quickly blanched, so quickly boiled before freezing.
And this destroys myrosinase.
So no myrosinase.
No glow stick reaction, no sulforaphane.
It's like buying a broken glow stick.
Or they throw broccoli directly into the boiling water.
Same problem.
Myrosinase dies and you don't get sulforaphane.
So that's why I have three tricks for broccoli.
Okay, so we can...
You can cook it the way you're talking about to make sure.
You know what I love about this?
I will never eat broccoli again without seeing glowy sparkle things all around.
It's so amazing to know what's happening.
So here are the three tricks.
For fresh broccoli, chop it 40 minutes before cooking.
Wait, because during that time, myrosinase catalyzes the reaction and produces more sulforaphane.
For frozen broccoli.
Can I ask a question though?
Yeah.
So the reason why this works, I'm guessing, is it because the chopping mimics what you're doing when you chew it?
Yes.
And so the chopping is mixing everything up, but you got to let it sit for 40 minutes because it needs time for the glow to glow.
Yeah.
And, you know, you can just even 10 minutes help.
Okay.
40 minutes is based on experiment.
Great.
We're going with the experiment.
There are actually crazy scientists that measure this.
And the smaller the pieces...
The more the sulforaphane.
Well, that makes a lot of sense.
And what I love about that is I can chop the broccoli, set it aside, because then I got to cook the tomato in the olive oil.
I'm tracking here.
Here we go.
Okay.
I love it.
I love it.
Then if you buy frozen broccoli, okay, you can rescue that with mustard.
Add like a teaspoon of mustard powder or a tablespoon of prepared mustard
Every like three ounces of cooked broccoli.
Why?
Because mustard is also a cruciferous vegetable, so provides the myrosinase enzymes that has been killed.
So it's sort of like when you add, stir in the mustard to cook broccoli, it's almost like the glow stick.
The mustard is activating the core ingredient that the broccoli has.
Exactly.
No, you can put it after cooking.
Yeah.
And this has been measured by scientists at the University of Reading.
So this is not just a trick made up.
Well, you don't strike me as the kind of person that makes anything up.
And then there is the third trick.
If you really want to maximize sulforaphane,
Grow your own broccoli sprouts.
They have up to 100 times the glucoraphanin, the precursor compared to mature broccoli.
So just one ounce of broccoli sprouts equals three pounds of broccoli.
And it's so easy.
In five days, they are ready.
And they are really an epigenetic medicine.
I am learning so much.
I love that you're here.
I have so many more questions that I want to ask you.
And I'm sure as you're listening, you're like, I'll ask her about this.
First, we have to hit the pause button.
This is an invitation to look at your future and your health completely differently.
And I love that you and I have this free resource.
There is so much more we are going to dive into and learn as soon as we are back from this break.
So stay with me.
Welcome back.
It's your friend, Mel.
And today you and I are here with renowned Stanford epigenetic scientist, Dr. Lachia Aronica, who is showing you and me that the food that we eat isn't just fuel.
It is information that changes you at a cellular level.
And she is pulling back the curtain on how you can eat to live longer, look younger, and feel better than ever.
Okay, let's move on to the blackberries.
Okay, the blackberries provide anthocyanins.
These are epinutrients for cognitive benefits.
In general, they are anti-inflammatory.
So they have...
Multiple benefits, but clinical trials shows benefits particularly for cognition and garlic
Garlic works similarly to broccoli.
This is also a glow stick for your genes.
Yeah, because when you chop or chew garlic.
Chew.
Some people chew it, but if you crush it or chop it.
Yes.
Two compounds mix.
And allinase, the enzyme, and this creates allicin, the epinutrient we need.
And allicin has multiple benefits.
It decreases LDL by 10%.
It has anti-inflammatory benefits.
It boosts immune function.
Now, even here, there's a problem, right?
It's the same problem.
Because I don't want to eat it raw.
That's a problem.
The problem is alinase is also sensitive to heat, just like myrosin.
So here's what you do.
What do we do?
You crash garlic.
It's better if you crash it actually with the flat part
Of a knife.
So if you're not a cook, let me explain what that means.
So you know when you peel the garlic and you chop, chop, chop.
What she's saying is take the whole clove and smash it flat with the flat end of the knife or a spoon or a wooden spoon or something like that.
What does smashing do that chopping doesn't?
Yeah.
So they both destroy the plant cell walls, making those compounds mix together.
But crushing destroys more and more destruction, more allicin.
Okay.
So both work.
But you said, does cooking it in olive oil change that or does it hold on to the...
Yes, you don't want to go.
So you first crush it.
Then you wait five minutes.
Oh.
Just five minutes for garlic because this gives enough time for the reaction to maximize the production of allicin.
Okay.
And then you have two options.
Either add it raw at the end of cooking, that's the maximum allicin, or cook it for two to five minutes, medium heat in olive oil, not water.
Because if it's water, it leaches into the butter and you lose most of it.
Okay.
Yeah.
So two cloves a day.
And you are good.
Let's talk about chocolate.
Okay.
This isn't a guilty pleasure.
It can be epigenetic medicine if you choose the right one.
So chocolate provides a type of epinutrients called flavonols with metabolic cognitive benefits
And now the problem is that most commercial chocolate is Dutch processed.
So washed with alkali to make it smoother, to reduce bitterness and make the color greener.
Look darker, which looks more premium, right?
Now, this process destroys 90% of flavanols.
Wow.
So you really want to look for non-alkalized or non-Dutch alcohol.
Process.
Okay.
Chocolate.
So do they label it somewhere?
Yes.
It'll be labeled Dutch processed if it is Dutch processed.
Yeah, they should, or it should be on the label.
Now, my favorite way of incorporating chocolate in my life is eating either cacao powder or cacao beans.
This is where you get
You maximize the flavanols and minimize the calories.
You just need one to two tablespoons of raw cacao powder or
10 to 20 grams of cacao beans.
These are delicious.
If you lightly roast them in the oven, they're just fantastic.
I didn't even know there was such a thing as a cacao bean, but now I'm going to be looking for them.
I also finally see bell peppers.
You got a bright red one right there.
Bell peppers also provide lycopene and they are a great source of vitamin C. But here, be careful, don't buy them frozen because then they will lose 50% of their vitamin content.
Is there anything else you want to say about all this stuff?
Just remember, the point isn't picking your favorite color.
It's mixing them up.
The rainbow.
Yeah, because only when you eat the rainbow, you are really protecting your genes from all angles.
I love that.
Royal jelly.
We're activating the queen bee mode in our genes.
We're going to remove this food.
So, Trace, why don't you come on in and grab all this for us?
That glow stick was amazing.
Now, I would like to focus on cooling.
Great.
Because actually I need to spell it every time.
It's C-H-O-L-I-N-E. Choline.
Yeah, that's how forgotten this essential nutrient is.
90% of people are deficient without even knowing it.
We need 450 to 550 milligram, which is equivalent to roughly four eggs a day.
Four eggs a day?
Four egg yolks.
It's in the yolk, really.
And most of us get barely half of it.
A gap that is affecting our liver, our brain and our genes, because choline is first, it's part of every single cell membrane in your body.
Then in the brain is used to produce acetylcholine for memory, focus, movement.
And then in the liver is used to package fat and export it out.
So you develop fatty liver without calling.
And for your genes is the ink to write the instructions.
Now, during pregnancy,
The demand skyrockets.
In our recent research with Dr. Randy Girtle, he's the godfather of nutritional epigenetics, we discuss how choline during pregnancy can truly program a child's health for life.
So when pregnant women take more than double the recommended amount of choline, so 930 milligram instead of 450,
Then their children have higher cognitive abilities and lower anxiety, even seven years later.
Really?
Yes, because choline provides the ink to also regulate genes that are involved in our stress response, including those controlling cortisol.
Now...
I know what you're thinking.
How can I get colon?
Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking.
You're not only an epigenetist, you're a mentalist because you're reading my mind.
So I've developed something that I call the four yolk formula.
So try to get the equivalent of
The choline equivalent of four yolks a day.
How the heck do I do that?
Yeah.
And is that going to kill my cholesterol?
No.
Okay.
We need to debunk that myth.
The cholesterol from your diet doesn't equal the cholesterol in your blood.
Your liver produces 80% of
The circulating cholesterol.
And if you eat more, the liver produces less.
It's like a thermostat automatically adjusting.
In our own research at Stanford, when people tripled their cholesterol consumption,
In the context of a weight loss diet, and also they actually increased their saturated fat consumption, their blood lipids improved.
The problem wasn't the cholesterol.
It was the donuts.
So now only about 25% of people are high responders, which means they
Eat more cholesterol and they see increases in their blood cholesterol due to genetic and other metabolic differences.
But for the other 75%, eggs don't significantly raise blood cholesterol.
Let me finish the formula.
So you get one egg yolk equivalent, of course, in one egg, right?
So you could have like two eggs.
Then in three ounces of salmon, for example.
Do any other fish count or just salmon?
Salmon is the richest source.
Okay.
Liver, just one ounce.
I know I also don't like liver.
You like liver?
I hate liver.
I can't stand this.
So I can really relate if you're listening to this and thinking, blah.
However, liver is a truly...
It's an epigenetic multivitamin.
And then if you're plant-based, it's going to be difficult, but it's possible.
Cruciferous vegetables, three cups a day.
No, three cups is only one egg.
Three cups of cruciferous vegetables is only worth one egg of corn?
You need four.
Or, and this is the trick I recommend for vegetarians and vegans, one tablespoon of sunflower or soy lecithin.
And this provides the equivalent of one egg, right?
So you will need four tablespoons.
But if you have some...
So hold on, can I ask, when you say sunflower, are you talking sunflower seeds or sunflower oil?
Lecithin.
What is lecithin?
Yes.
You can find it everywhere if you Google it.
Yes, it's a flower.
It's actually because choline is part of our membranes, right, as I say.
So now the plants in the plant membranes, this choline is present in the same form as
That is present in our body, which is called phosphatidylcholine.
So lecithin is a great source of phosphatidylcholine.
And that's an oil?
No, it's a powder.
It's a powder.
Yeah.
Okay.
So is that powder kind of the equivalent of like you get added to a smoothie, you could shake it on a salad?
One tablespoon is, yeah, on a salad.
We're going to skip the liver and we're going to get the lecithin.
I'm like in that group, I think.
Yeah.
And this means, you know, that...
The vegetarians and vegans don't need to eat kilos of cruciferous veggies a day with this trick, right?
Yeah.
So choline is very important.
I think it's one of the most misunderstood and forgotten nutrients.
Based on your research, what excites you the most about protein?
Protein provides the building blocks, the amino acids for everything structural and functional in your body.
Hair, skin, nails, antibodies, neurotransmitters, hormones.
Without protein, you basically can't digest, can't heal, can't move.
What are some of the other benefits when you think about epigenetics?
I know it's the building blocks, but what else...
Is an important reason, you know what I mean?
For why you really should be focusing on this if you wanna age well and you wanna take advantage of all this research.
We talked about already about the pencils, right?
So B12 and choline are primarily found and methionine are primarily found in protein-rich foods, right?
That's the first epigenetic benefit and the direct epigenetic benefit.
Then there are other indirect benefits.
For example, if you eat more protein and you're building muscle, right, the exercise part and the muscle building part does incredible things to your epigenetics in your muscle cells.
It turns on genes that protect you from diabetes, that stimulates mitochondria, biogenesis.
So they are really basically rejuvenating your metabolism from within.
So these are more indirect applications.
Indirect benefits of protein from the epigenetics.
But when you combine it with the weight training and moving your body, you're saying, again, you get that glow stick effect.
We're now all feeling like the queen bee because it's changing you from the inside out.
Yeah.
That's so, so cool.
So is collagen protein?
Yes.
So collagen is protein, is the most abundant protein, is really the scaffolding holding you together, is in our skin, in our tendons.
And now most people think, OK, I need collagen supplements.
Yes.
As I age, because as we age, we lose about 1% of collagen every year, starting at 25.
So by age 50, we are already down 75%.
And that doubles after menopause.
What?
Yes.
I actually prefer to focus on collagen rich foods.
And these are the foods we are not eating, the parts of the animals that we are just throwing away.
So this is like chicken and fish with the skin, canned fish or with the bones, right?
Salmon,
Sardines, for example, slow cooked meats.
Oh, my goodness.
Yes.
I know.
Let's talk.
Let's let's talk about.
Yes.
Yes.
So good.
Oh, my gosh.
Yes.
Short ribs.
Let's keep going.
Yeah.
And bone broth.
That's that provides 10 grams of collagen per cup.
More or less so in general if you think let's go back and eat like nose to tail like our ancestors did like
Use it all.
Use it all.
And then you will get the collagen and all the epinutrients.
So first of all, focus on high protein.
Get that protein because maybe that's all you need.
We don't know.
But then support with collagen.
You will get, especially if it's from food, you will get other epinutrients and the glycine.
The next thing that you talk about from an epigenetic standpoint is omega-3.
Oh, that's my favorite.
Oh, Meg, you love these.
Yeah, I love this.
These are antibiotics that work as our cellular fire department.
They switch on genes that basically slow down inflammation.
Inflammation is the chronic low-grade inflammation is what ages you faster than time itself.
The problem is that most people think that plant-based omega-3s are enough.
Chia seeds, flax seeds, walnuts, they provide ALS.
This is a plant-based omega-3 fatty acids that your body needs to convert to the active form EPA and DHA, which you get directly from fatty fish.
Now, the problem, that conversion is dramatically inefficient.
For young women is 5% to 8%, for men is 0.5% to 4%, and things get worse as we age
If we are stressed or inflamed.
Yes.
So let's just take that perfect scenario.
Okay.
You are a young woman, the best case scenario, and no inflammation, no stress.
You would need to get the therapeutic levels of omega-3 fatty acids that in clinical trial are equivalent to two grams a day.
You will need to eat one cup of flaxseed or chia seeds every day or two pounds of walnuts.
Two pounds?
That's like 2,000 calories or more.
Yes.
So this is not a nutritional strategy.
It sounds more like nutritional fantasy.
So that's why I always encourage people to focus on fatty fish.
So this is salmon, mackerel, anchovies, sardines, and herring.
These are the best sources of omega-3 fatty acids.
Three to four times a week.
This is still not enough to get to two grams a day unless you eat fish every day and with multiple servings.
That's why I do like to supplement with a quality omega-3 fatty acids.
That's cool.
I'm really into this.
Fermented foods, as an epigenetic researcher, what do fermented foods do?
Okay.
Fermented foods provide what I call the three musketeers of gut health, all for one, one for all.
And these are the
Prebiotics, so the fiber that feeds your bacteria.
Then the probiotics, the bacteria themselves, and the postbiotics.
These are the bacterial products
That work as epibioactives.
The most studied example is butyrate.
Have you ever heard of it?
Butyrate?
Butyrate, no, huh?
It's a short chain fatty acids.
Okay.
Fatty acids produced by your gut microbiome that works as an epibioactive
Traveling through your bloodstream and switching on genes involved in inflammation control, gut health, immune health.
Wow.
Right.
And for many people, fermented foods are better than fiber alone.
In a landmark study at Stanford by my colleague Justin Sundberg, they showed that when people increase their fiber intake, but they have low microbiome diversity, so fewer bacteria species,
Then they actually experience an increase in inflammatory markers.
But when people increase their fermented food intake, the inflammatory markers decrease.
Go down independently of starting microbiome and their microbiome diversity increases during the process.
This is because the fermented foods don't just feed your bacteria, they really seed your gut with new species.
Pieces.
So if you were to really change the way you look at food and you look at this rainbow of epinutrients and you follow the same instruction you gave your mom based on the research of just try to get
Protein in at every meal and also really pay attention to omega-3 and collagen.
Like you just do your best to do this and you slow down a little bit.
And maybe we channel our inner Italian and we enjoy this and think about the fact that we are
Giving our body the ink and the instructions to write a new chapter.
What changes might you notice, even in a short period of time, if you really take this on?
Yeah, so in 30 days, let's say 30 days, these are probably not enough to reprogram or rewrite your epigenetic memories, but they're enough to see meaningful physiological changes.
Then you start to feel better because...
Energy stabilizes as your blood glucose stabilizes.
Your sleep and skin improve as the inflammation goes down.
Digestion improves as your microbiome adjusts.
And most importantly,
The real transformation is cellular.
So you are slowly rewiring your habits and rewriting your genetic instructions.
You are really starting to becoming a new person at the cellular level.
So your transformation has already started.
What would you say to the person who's listening or watching right now and they are going to follow all these recommendations, but there's someone in their life that they're worried about and they want to help a loved one change their lifestyle for the better?
I love this question because you can't change someone else.
But you can become the invitation.
Don't just force change.
Just show that change is possible by living it.
Not pushing it.
Start your quiet transformation.
Be the quiet revolution because there's no better argument than your life.
So if you start changing first, right, adopting a healthy diet, exercising, they will get curious.
They will notice it.
And then when they ask...
You can invite them to join you.
And so meet them where they are.
What do you think the single most important thing that you want someone to take away from this conversation, this incredible, rich masterclass,
In how to take epi nutrients and rewrite your future?
What do you want them to take away from this conversation?
Your genes aren't your fate.
They are your opportunity.
Stop blaming your DNA.
Your genes are only 25% and you are the other 75%.
Every meal, every walk outside, every night of sleep is an opportunity to pick up the epigenetic pencil
And write a healthier chapter.
And here's how you can make it sustainable.
Remember that pleasure is your compass.
Real food that tastes incredible, connections that light you up.
Even movement that you enjoy.
These will guide you exactly to what your genes need.
So pick up that pencil, write with pleasure and create a masterpiece.
You know, what I want to say to you is it's really a privilege when you get to sit with somebody who is in their genius.
Thank you, Mel.
That was wonderful.
It really is.
It chokes me up because you said that you can't change someone else, but you can be the invitation.
Your example can show that change is possible.
Yes.
And it's very clear that the research that you do and the way that you live your life and the conviction and genius through which you share
All of this with the rest of us is the invitation that shows us it's possible.
So thank you.
Thank you, Mel.
Thank you so much.
You are so welcome.
And I also want to thank you.
I want to thank you for making the time to listen to something that is so life-changing.
And I want to thank you for sharing this episode as a free resource and an invitation to the
That change is possible too.
I am so excited by this.
I cannot wait to see your comments.
I can't wait to see the changes that you make and how you feel when you really take all of this research that we just learned about epi nutrition and you apply it to your life.
And in case no one else tells you today, as your friend, I wanted to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.
And one of the things that really struck me about our conversation today is something that Dr. Lucia said about how
Change isn't just possible.
What's going to happen if you leverage all of this incredible research that we learned about today?
You're not only going to feel better, you are going to become a different person at a cellular level.
And holy cow, won't that change your life?
All righty.
I will see you in the very next episode.
I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play.
And today you and I are here with renowned Stanford epigenetic scientist, Dr. Lucia Arn... Dr. Lucina... Oh my God.
Dr. Lucia Aronica.
Right now, you may be...
See your...
Sorry.
The first category, metal donors.
So, these donate... And...
Okay.
I am so excited.
I literally like, okay, episode over.
Does this only work because you're Italian?
Like, you know, like I, you're listening to you.
Sulforaphane works like a glow stick.
I think it's on your seat.
Yes, it's my seat.
Okay.
You are so good.
Thank you.
Oh okay thank you my god okay thank you it was so fun and I got more yeah excited as we as we moved on
Oh, and one more thing.
And no, this is not a blooper.
This is the legal language.
You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.
This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.
I'm just your friend.
I am not a licensed therapist.
And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.
Got it?
Good.
I'll see you in the next episode.
Sirius XM Podcasts.
