Better early than sorry. Chinese university students are diving into internships earlier than ever, sometimes as soon as their first year.
Many are racing to stack their resumes in a hyper competitive job market.
But does starting so early actually give them an edge or just pile on more pressure?
And when celebrities pass away, tribute posts flood our social media feeds. within minutes.
When friends lose jobs, relationships, or loved ones, we see carefully crafted announcements online.
Grieving has become both personal and public, intimate and collective in ways no other generation has experienced before.
But is social media a healing space? Or does it blur the line between authentic mourning and social display?
Coming to you live from Beijing, this is Roundtable.
I'm He Young. For today's program, I'm joined by Steve and Yushan in the studio.
First on today's show. Traditionally, internships were a finishing touch before university graduation.
In China, the clock has moved forward. Freshmen and sophomores are already interning, from fetching coffee and filing reports to shadowing real projects. students are racing to pad their resumes in a highly competitive job market.
And I don't blame them when the market swells with more than 10 million fresh graduates year after year here in China.
How come? college students are starting internships so early.
Well, it's really hard to say, isn't it?
Sometimes we see, well, at least traditionally, we see that internship, it's seen as a stepping stone before you graduate. used to be something that's career focused, where students would usually do in their summertime or say, in my case, it was at the third year, of university life or after their junior year at least.
But that's changing nowadays. More and more students, they're jumping into internship much earlier, sometimes as early as freshmen or sophomore year. basically they're starting right after they entered college and what used to be a supplement to their education has now become a central focus for some Because many students, they are stacking up multiple internships across different industries even before they graduate.
Yeah, you got to get as much on that resume as you possibly can.
Right. So, Yushan, you took your you took you had your internship. after your third year?
Yeah, I think it was in the later half of the third year, university year, where there's basically no classes arranged and that time six months eight months period is left for you to seek internship and eventually you bring back after your internship, a internship certification, I guess we can directly translate that into.
English and submit that certification as part of the proof that you've been there, you've completed this program.
And it's going to be adding to the criteria of you know, just deciding if you can graduate.
So at that time, and that wasn't that long ago, right?
But the vibe was among students in their second and first year. didn't even cross their mind?
No. Back then, the first and second year were still where we had to lay the foundation, the basics of our knowledge, the major you chose and also there's systematic courses arranged for you just so that you are at least solid with the skills before more specific practical courses and programs enters after the second year.
Interesting. It is a total shift, isn't it?
Yeah, and it's interesting that you mentioned, Yushan, that in China, also let's just bear in mind that it's a four-year course for... undergraduate degree in this country, the fourth year already takes into consideration that a lot of students are going to be taking time off from campus studying to do their internships.
That's interesting to me because I for let's say those who received their undergraduate education in the UK, which is a three-year course and then I don't recall being able to find the time for a lengthy internship during those three years and the third year, considering it being the last year in university, was still packed. with classes, lectures and coursework.
So it's interesting how people are even finding time to do this.
And also, Steve, are we seeing something like this elsewhere outside of China in the sense that there's this intense pressure? to not only get the internship but get it so early on.
I taught at a couple of different universities in Korea and It was quite. well accepted that seniors, if they were to miss a class here and there, and sometimes consecutive classes, not to punish them at all because they were out doing internships or looking for their full-time job.
Whereas the freshmen or the sophomore, If they missed a class, well, you dock them a point for absence, right?
But yeah, I was told that just so that I understood the situation.
So, it is happening and then I was looking at the United States as an example and the advice that I saw.
So I was looking at it from the student's point of view to see how they were feeling about it.
And then from kind of the professionals, the company's point of view, to see how they were feeling about it.
And yes, students are, it is typically the third year, but students are now looking at internships in their earlier years And one of the quotes that stood out to me from the professional side of things – I think this was an HR manager who said this –
You can never start too early. But you can start too late.
And that kind of stood out to me as, you know, if you want to try to get into internships when you're a freshman even, yeah, it's not going to hurt you, right?
But if you're starting to look when you're in your senior year, then that might be a little bit late to the game because You have to apply well in advance in the United States, they said, sometimes a year in advance for these internships.
Well, what used to be a final lap before graduation has become the starting gun for some freshmen.
What are the factors contributing to this phenomenon of early internships?
One, I would say that is from the company side where they are starting to getting earlier involved into say school recruitment because sometimes the leading companies they use internship programs during students second or third year to secure high quality candidates before they graduate.
For example, in some Chinese spring recruitment fairs, you see companies, they don't just hire final year students for full-time roles, they also run summer internship recruitment.
And that's particularly targeting pre-final year students, the younger ones.
It's like a talent pipeline, isn't it? Yeah.
They're getting... their eyes on their potential employees at an earlier time.
And that's just a That's just a smart thing to do for employers, isn't it?
Right. So students will intern maybe during the June to July months, and then if they do a good job during that time, then they can secure a return offer months after a graduation.
So it's like a it's like a pre interview right and if you do well then you go back to complete your classes and then you've already made a good impression on these companies from the students point of view and from the company's point of view they see somebody much earlier than they would have.
And from the student side, I think it's also... kind of stirring up the whole competition in a way because so many when you see as a student who is you know probably thinking about I should get in this same phenomenon as well when you see a lot of your peers already in the game already applying for internship at an earlier age it just triggers you to feel pressured if you're not doing the same, right?
I would assume I would be totally triggered to start looking for it, even though I haven't figured out What should be the prioritise? say task for me at that certain time or at a certain period.
So a lot of time it's just the anxiety within that rat race of the whole market. that's stirring up the students, making them feel pressure that they have to start early.
Also, I suspect that, sure, the companies might want this, but it's Actually, there is a study cited by Xinhua News Agency that shows companies in China can save up to 30 to 50% on training costs for interns who actually get hired later.
But also we know that You know, it's a two-way street.
Both sides are weighing options and... looking to see if this is the best employment relationship or not.
So there's a big chance that you won't get this in turn hired in the end either.
So my point here being that Sure, the companies are involved in some shape or form, but I suspect it's more the students that they might be singing in their heads the mantra that Steve just mentioned, the better. early than sorry kind of thing.
And then they feel so much pressure looking into the future economic climate of getting a job or not.
And then they're really trying their best to stand out in the crowd.
And I feel that if you had to sort of weigh these different factors, then the more compelling factor is that the students are pushing for them.
Yeah, well, apparently it's believed among student groups that even one internship may not be enough. that you may have to have three or more internship experiences to apply for some leading companies.
I remember this was a kind of an internet thing.
These posts would go viral a few years ago.
Young people would post the, job postings that they saw that they thought were ridiculous and it would say like entry-level position Four years experience required.
It's like, wait a minute, what? How is that possible?
That math work, right? It doesn't make sense.
So this kind of posting and these types of expectations coming from companies. exist, right?
And as unfair as it may be, it's still a reality.
And you're right. If you're a young student and you're thinking, gosh, I got one internship, but this student over here that i know is doing their second one and that student over there is doing their third one it puts them in a high pressure situation.
But where does that stop in life, right?
I mean, the comparison is endless. And also there's a very critical way of looking at this.
And I wonder, Yushan, if you agree with this at all.
Apparently some students This is kind of under the radar.
They're saying, well, you know, I've entered university.
I've been to classes. I know how quote unquote useful they are.
And I realized there was a big gap between the ivory tower and what's actually asked of me in the workplace.
And I'd rather spend my time getting that internship, the hands on experience and something compelling and attractive to put on my resume than spending time in the classroom because I'm going to graduate and I've got that in my bag more or less, unless you're absolutely a terrible student, then This is more worthwhile for my time.
They're being very practical here. But again, as someone who's been through that stage, I'll say, there are indeed we can sort of say that there is some mismatch between what's taught in universities and the actual skills this need professional world, but as a student, especially if you're only in your 19th and 20s years of age, isn't it the a bit too early to say that if classroom knowledge is not enough or if practical skills is all I need,
You're still in the exploration stage. That's just my take on this.
Maybe from the school's view, if you found this major is really not for you, then there's perhaps more negotiation they can make on switching a major.
I know what you mean. I know what you mean.
It's not a perfect situation. And this is the thought that I had too, again, to to talk about my time teaching at universities.
I was told don't punish the students for absences because they're out looking for their full-time jobs for their future or doing their internships.
And I said, okay, but then I thought, But what's the point of the fourth year of university?
What are they paying for? What's the point?
I don't get this. Right? Right? But at the same time, I also did get it.
So I don't know what the right answer is there.
Yeah, I remember at my third and fourth year of just university life, I was... constantly hopping between my internship and my dissertation at school.
So there's like a very long paper we need to write as a main criteria for finishing our degree back in school.
Sometimes I have to tell the school, because I worked in a performing arts center, rehearsals that I need to follow as their stage interpreter or something so I need to tell the school that we have this very important rehearsal between this certain time so I um yeah i can't be in school to finish my writing during this period and then a week later i probably need to tell my internship that okay this is the deadline I've got at school.
So I need to come back and finish my writing.
Yeah, I mean, luckily, that's only for a short period of time in life.
About less than a year. But it does create a disconnect between the university and then the companies that you're looking into or your own life.
Right. That can be a little bit difficult to juggle.
And especially as a young person, I think this might be some of the early experiences of that.
Well, if we could review maybe more of these different arguments, how does this early internship phenomenon benefit students and where might they fall short? for the benefits, I guess it's just for students who can just get a chance to engage in early internships and gain advantage in the job market already like we mentioned earlier the more quote unquote work experience that you gather, the higher chance you can put together a very fancy resume that already just outpass your peers in in so many ways and then there's the practical skills and growth that you can gain from these say practical more like internship or working scenario, even though it's not really a job.
By any means, you can still learn practical stuff and Just getting the experience within a real world situation instead of within that classroom environment. where you're very much well protected from just how the society actually works.
Yeah. That article that I was reading from that HR manager who said the earlier the better, the later the worse.
One of the points was that when young students, university students can come in to the company as an intern.
They have an opportunity to learn about how that company culture works in terms of communication, about expectations at the office, how things function, how things work.
And I think – and this is what the HR manager said, and I agree –
Those are really valuable skills to learn early on.
We've talked a lot on the show about Gen Z, and I think sometimes it feels like we're picking on them.
But we talked about the fact that older bosses sometimes find it frustrating because of different communication style and things like this.
Well, if you can get a head start on that as a young person and learn how company culture works and things like that, I think that's a serious advantage.
Does every company offer that opportunity for learning?
Probably not. But, you know, on paper, it's a very good thing.
Yeah, and I guess it's too early to jump to the disadvantage, but when I first learned about how early young college students, university students are engaging into internship nowadays it's just they're still 19 years old quote-unquote kids in a way older teenagers like when they enter a workplace as an intern, what do you expect them to do?
Do they serve Not very much. Do you actually give them tasks for them to do?
I don't think they can do that. I can't do that.
I don't think they can even know how to work a printer. and actually you know like these days a lot of people actually you know we're so used to everything being online but yes like I've experienced handled some interns in the past and not like saying we offer internships anymore in this organization.
That door has closed. Anyway, so at the time I realized, wow, it takes a lot of time to train these young people.
And then you're kind of doing this mental calculation here.
Is this person is only going to be here for one month this summer?
Is it worth my time when it's a packed schedule you're already dealing with than to train a newbie who's most likely not going to work here and who it seemed to be more, if we're being very honest about this, they're more satisfied for that process piece of paper of proof that yes, I've interned for a particular organization.
And therefore the tasks that end up handled handed to them are more like go collect the quitee.
I know that's terrible. That's terrible.
What's the QID? It's the delivery. Parcels.
The parcels? The mails. What? If that's all they're doing all day every day, that's terrible.
Okay, let me keep, so that's one example of the very mundane things that are asked of of these young people.
I'm not saying it's always like that, but for these internships, sometimes it end up like that.
And actually those young people, sometimes they don't mind as long as they get the proof of certificate at the end of the month.
And also, I mean, we're entering into like muddy territory because there are some legit internships that actually pay people and actually ask these interns to do stuff and But there are others which are unpaid, like the one that I was describing, and then you So you're not paying this person to be here.
And this person feels like, oh, it is a privilege to be here, at least to get that certificate.
And then you kind of end up in a space that gets very tricky from time to time.
And in the past, we've even seen pretty, you can say negative news of people paying to get an internship. just so that they can put this in their resume.
And of course that's really bad and that behavior should be, you know, we should see a crackdown as such.
Yeah. But this is what they're facing. There's no clear... right or wrong answer to this because it's not black and white, right?
It depends on so many different things. It depends on the quality of the company's intern program, and what it can offer the young people.
They're not going to be given the most important tasks of the day at any company, but yet they can still be involved and and have an opportunity to learn a lot while they are there.
It depends on the student's perspective.
If the young person is thinking, oh, well, whatever, I'm only going to be here for two months.
What's the point? And I've worked with those interns before.
And I know it as soon as I see it. and I don't pay any attention to them at all.
So that can be a waste. And you could say, well, that's a little bit on them because they are there.
They are in that environment with an opportunity to learn.
But yet. If there aren't people willing to help them out and there's no encouragement, it's just like it can be really messy, can't it?
It can absolutely be a waste of time, but when it's done properly.
When it's done properly, what a golden opportunity, even if it's only for a month or two, to get your feet wet a little bit. in an industry that you might not end up working in, but at least you can get that experience.
I think there's one more point that we haven't mentioned yet.
That's building your connections within a certain industry because Apart from just taking on tasks and working on certain things, you're also getting to chat with those people who is probably outside of your daily social circle, if you're just staying in school, you're put in that office to associate with different people.
That's how I get to know a lot of the very respectful stage drama artists, and I really learned quite a lot from them back in my internship in the Performing Arts Center.
Yeah, it's kind of like a new experience.
It also helps you to learn much more about how to deal with people and how to manage different say roles between school and your internship so that's something perk that you can get but in the meantime that depends on has a lot to do with where you are working yeah it depends on both sides right you need to show that you're an eager learner and have the capability and also you have a good mentor who can actually sort of want to bring you into the loop and sort of teach you to a certain extent.
Well, early bird or not. Not everybody can get an internship.
And we're talking about some people stacking multiple internships on top of each other.
On a resume. So this is. Very competitive.
What do you think this means for students?
And how do they cope with the pressure? Because they know.
Well, you know, Yusheng's already got three and I've got none.
I've only got one for the record. But yeah, well, for the students, it's well... encouraged in a way that you start to look at just smaller firms rather than the really famous one, your dream company, let's say, your ideal career path where it's going to land. starting small, taking smaller steps, find more opportunities with local businesses, NGOs, or even sometimes the university affiliated projects so these places they may not have the same brand say prestige as you would expect, but the trade-off is real.
These companies, sometimes they are too small to treat you so differently as their already hired employees so you could just get hand on with actual jobs that you there for in the first place so I would encourage that yeah you can cast a wider net young people and when you're searching for internship don't just focus on the very shiny brands but yeah just look wider and yeah yeah i would say that You have to have that attitude about it though, right?
You have to say, well, even if it's not something that I'm ultra passionate about, there's still plenty to be learned. there from the situation, maybe from the company, but just by observing people talking with people, talking with professionals.
Take advantage of that, right? I mean, the hard part is that There are more students competing for these positions than there are companies offering these really high quality structured jobs. positions.
And that's where the pressure comes from.
And that's why students can maybe feel it's a waste of time.
Let me briefly just share what I read on a a university blog post.
This is from a student. The student was the writer for the university online website.
It said, I'm still applying to every intern role I can find, even if they don't directly align with my goals.
I'm half-heartedly scrolling from bed as the promise of income and real-world experience during the summer slips further away with each passing day.
The competitive nature of these internships is stressful enough, but getting one in the summer when most of us are out of school adds more pressure to all of us.
It feels like if I don't get an internship with a reputable organization soon, I'm going to fall behind in the race for a financially stable future.
That's from an American student. So it seems like all students around the world are feeling the same kind of pressure, right?
I think I wanna do it. Everybody seems to be wanting to do it, but what if I can't get a great one?
Am I wasting my time or not? See, if I'm an average student in China, I'm not thinking that way.
Getting anything is good. anything please waste my time just anything on the resume especially if you're not so lucky or you're not one of those students that can graduate with a prestigious degree from a university of pedigree then what makes you stand out?
And we know these days, I think we even talked on the show that AI is sifting through the resumes.
And if I didn't graduate with the top university, maybe I don't even get even to have my CV read by a human being.
But having a few or a couple of these internships, it helps me.
Maybe I will get a chance. of the interview and that's how people feel about this.
And that's why they're so desperate and trying to start early.
I agree. Get out there and do something, right?
Just try. The effort is... is part of the reward.
Can I read the last paragraph of the blog post?
Go ahead. We work hard through, again, American student.
We work hard through the fall and spring semesters that we deserve to rest unapologetically instead of forcing ourselves to seek grueling professional experiences that are often unpaid.
Besides that, finding inner growth in vacationing is equally important as in a work setting.
No, it's not. It is absolutely not. You can find your inner peace when you are 25 or 35 or 45.
Get out of your bed. Get out of your living room and send your resumes out and try to get some experience.
It's competitive with your other students.
Try to get a leg up on them. Yeah. Can I also just bring our attention to maybe a different part of this discussion that is, we used to think that higher education is a time for learning and exploration. and maybe even searching some of that inner peace.
But is the scramble for work experience rewriting or is Is it going to affect how the universities are sort of coming up with their curricula in the fact that we know that so many young people they're ditching the classrooms have heartedly just so that they can get that super early internship.
It's just really sad. From my personal experience, based on all that I've been through, I think if universities, they became nothing more than just job training pipelines, then they risk losing their broader purpose, which is to help students think critically, experiment with ideas before they actually step into the society.
I think there's still a very important value that's held by universities in the first place.
Yeah, well, there's no question about that.
It would be nice if there were more, I don't know, collaboration or support.
Maybe support's not even the right word because it seems like support is given to the students.
But yeah, it seems like it's an either or. instead of both situations sometimes, at least in the final year.
Yeah, that's a good point to raise. Coming up during the second half of the show, grief used to be private.
Now it's a social media podcast. What changed?
Stay tuned.
