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welcome to stuff you should know a production of iheart radio hey and welcome to the podcast i'm josh and there's chuck and jerry's here too and this is stuff you should know the freeze edition yeah you know what the edition this is this is the uh law enforcement sometimes thinks they're so cute and clever
addition right man i can't wait to point out how many cutesy little names and acronyms pop up in this story and and this and a lesson if you're a criminal and you ever think something might be shady and it might be a sting operation just look at any name that they've given you and like read it backwards
or see if it spells an acronym that says like we we nabbed you buddy or something like that like that's that's how cutesy they got is then you'll see i'll just throw that out there and we'll talk about them as they pop up yeah and there's our daily assistance in helping criminals evade capture by law
enforcement yeah was that what i was doing i certainly was all right moving on so we're talking about one specific um operation operation flagship which was conducted by the u .s marshal service back in i I think 1985.
And it's just kind of mind boggling.
Where'd you hear about this?
Did somebody write in or did you already know about it being an NFL fan?
Yeah. You know what?
I'm not sure. Now that I think of it, this may have been a listener request.
And I'm going to look that up real quick because I hate not shouting people out.
Yeah, I'm with you.
When that happens. Well, I keep talking while you look.
Okay. So, so the US Marshal Service, they're one of the first American law enforcement agencies.
They were founded back in 1789.
Dave helped us with this.
It's Dave week, by the way, as Dave put it in the time of George Washington.
So they've been around quite a bit.
And over the course of this history, like they've done a lot of different, really kind of great stuff.
They escorted students into the first segregated schools, Black students to segregated schools.
They protected them.
They enforced prohibition, which I guess, depending on your views on prohibition, it was great or not.
They operated the U .S.
Census, which seems like they were at the time just really looking for busy work.
for the marshal service yeah well just give him a bunch of pencils right and then and turn them loose and then famously chuck uh anytime you hear somebody call like a wild west law enforcement guy marshal this they were a u .s marshal that was one of the roles they played they served as the long arm
of the lawn the the wild west era of american history yeah uh so they did a lot of things found They found a lot of busy work for them to do over the years.
These days, did you mention witness protection?
Not yet. Yeah, I mean, basically these days they take care of witness – they run the witness security program, a .k .a.
witness protection.
If you see prisoners being transported, like, to court or something, those are marshals doing that.
And since 1979 they've been in charge of fugitive investigations, Which is to say, basically, anybody with an outstanding warrant is a fugitive.
You don't have to have, like, escaped prison if you're charged with a crime or have been summoned to testify or something like that.
And you're you jump bail.
You don't appear in court if you escape from custody.
Then you're a fugitive and the U .S.
Marshals are going to try and find you and either put you back in jail or put you in jail for your very first time.
Yeah. And Tommy Lee Jones doesn't care if you're innocent.
His job is to get you and bring you back to jail.
No nonsense. I didn't kill my wife.
I don't care. That's just so great, man.
One of the great lines in movie history.
So, yeah, you can be a fugitive all sorts of ways.
And regardless of how it is, the U .S.
Marshals are out there to get you.
And for the most part, when they get you, it's because they've tracked you down.
Maybe they got a tip.
Maybe they just started looking for you and they found that you're actually at your last known address.
Yeah. And they arrest people quite frequently.
I think I saw that they rounded up like 75 ,000 fugitives in 2023 or 24.
They arrest a lot of people.
But for some reason, during the early to mid 80s, the U .S.
Marshal Service went on what can only be described as a cutesy streak.
Yeah. They said, hey, guys.
Let's have a little fun with this.
They clearly did. I mean, like these things, this whole thing was hatched hours into an office Christmas party in 1979.
That's the only explanation for this.
Yeah, for sure. We'll start with our first QT acronym.
In 1981, they launched a program called the Fugitive Investigative Strike Team, a .k .a.
FIST, because they're going to use their fist to get you.
Right up your bum. That's right.
And their goal was to do fugitive investigations, not just like one person at a time, but like, let's see if we can get a lot of these people at one time, high concentrations of these fugitives, and round them up and bring them in.
And how are we going to do that?
We're going to do that with these really kind of wacky sting operations, which, you know, it's not like they were just out to have fun.
There's a lot of merit to doing something this way.
They're generally cheaper than just one at a time going after somebody resource -wise.
They're safer because usually when you launch something like this, they're going to be unaware.
They're not going to be, they're not going to have a weapon on them like they might, you know, behind the door of their own home that they barely crack open.
So, you know, it's cheaper.
It's generally a little safer.
We're going to talk about a few examples of these before we get to flagship.
One very successful one was a program called Mr.
Zip, and this was just very lo -fi.
They would have marshals dressed up as U .S.
mail carriers, and they would just knock on your door and say, I got a package from Mr.
Homo Simpson. and they would produce their ID and sign their name, and they would say, thank you, you're under arrest.
Yeah. It is you. I think that was actually in The Fugitive, too.
Uh, yeah, that sounds familiar.
Yeah, I mean, it's been in a lot of different movies, but— Like here are your roses, that kind of thing?
Uh -huh, exactly. Yeah.
So I don't know if this is actually the origin of it or not, but it certainly seems to be because I don't get the impression that they did a lot of this stuff before this era.
Yeah, what about Puno Airlines?
I love this one. That was pretty fun.
That was pretty fun.
Yeah. So puño means fist in Spanish.
Uh. Right. I'm sorry.
It's just, it's also like, it's almost like they wanted people to figure it out.
Yes. That is inherently the problem behind this whole thing is a lot of this.
I was about to say steps, but I'm just going to say missteps.
Yeah. That happened to work out in their favor.
We're just basically like, hey, criminals, do you speak Spanish?
Right. Do you think anybody would ever name their airline Fist Airline?
Well, they want to give you a free weekend to the Bahamas.
That's right. That was the Puno Airlines thing.
And I love it. Like, I think it's cool, like, in retrospect.
But when you stop and actually think of it from a law enforcement perspective, you just end up pinching the bridge of your nose.
But it actually worked.
Yeah, it did. They mailed these fake letters saying they had won that trip plus $350 in spending money.
14 fugitives fell for it and they send a limo to your house it's like a big sweepstakes basically and most of them were arrested in the limo like the limo driver is a cop and they just pull over and say you're under arrest one guy did make it to the airport at Miami International and they did have a fake
Punio Airlines ticket counter so they saw it through I'll give them that much yeah for sure I think it was right next to Air Haiti right No, for real.
Oh, was it? Okay. I never know when you're joking anymore, so.
So, I know. I'm sorry.
I've really messed with reality.
That was 1985. There was another one the year before, Fist Seven.
Yeah. Right? But they would spell it with Roman numerals to make it look super cool.
It's so funny. Because I think this is, yeah, this is the era of the Rocky sequels.
Yeah, Roman numerals were everywhere.
Yeah. That one was enormous.
It was a multi -state, multi -agency sting operation.
There were 113 marshals involved, five ATF agents, 105 police officers, all from across eight different states.
And it involved a bunch of different scams that really all together were part of this one big sweep that was just coordinated by the marshal service.
There was one pretty straightforward in Buffalo where they wrote letters to fugitives and said, hey, you don't know this, but you won $10 ,000 in the lottery.
You know that lottery you may or may not have ever played?
Well, you won $10 ,000, but we can't give you the money unless you come to the lotto office and show us your ID and then you can claim your prize.
That's right. That was one of them.
One was a job scam.
It was called the Prior Offenders Employment Opportunity Program, where they would say, like, hey, are you a prior offender?
Like, I know it's hard for you to get a job.
We can get you a job, 15 bucks an hour.
Just call our number and tell us who you are and where you are, and we'll set you right up.
That one actually seems like the most effective one because it almost has, like, a scam sense to it, like, outwardly, like, overtly.
It may be the meanest, too.
I think so, too. I thought the same thing.
Because you might think it's mean to say you've won tickets to the Bahamas, but it's really mean for someone to be like, I really want to start my life over and get a regular job.
It's all called this number.
Have we got an opportunity for you?
Yeah. I agree with you.
In New York, part of Fist7, their sting was called the Brooklyn Bridge Delivery Service.
Not to be confused with New York's finest taxi service, but it's basically the same thing.
yeah their motto was don't mess with the rest come to the best and it was essentially the same thing as mr zip as far as the scam goes but they would just leave um like we missed you slips on their door saying you have a package that you need to come pick up and um there was a guy involved in this uh i
can't remember his name but oh robert leshorn he was one of the chief or deputy chief marshals, and this was his scam.
And so part of it was the criminal would call to find out where to pick up their package.
And depending on what they were wanted for, he would tailor what was supposedly in the package.
So he said, like, if you were wanted for robbery or theft or something, it would be like a brand new stereo or something.
So he would tailor it, which made sense.
And apparently that worked to a certain extent, but all of these, all of them pale in comparison to the one that they ran in Hartford, Connecticut.
Oh man, I thought you're going on the flagship.
I was like, are you not going to mention this one?
No, not a chance. As a matter of fact, we should probably just stop after this one because no scam in the history of law enforcement has ever been greater than this one.
Yeah. This is part of Fist7 in Hartford, Connecticut.
This was, hey, let's do a fake TV station giveaway where you can win two tickets to a concert plus dinner and a limo ride.
And, hey, it's 1984.
You going to see Van Halen on their big, huge rock tour?
No, no, no. Boy George.
And Culture Club. You have won tickets to see Culture Club in 1984, and it worked.
I don't know why they chose.
I don't know if it was geographical, if Boy George was just like, sure, I'll take part in this.
He probably didn't know anything about it.
Or if they did some research, did a little re, and found out that these dudes love Culture Club.
I don't know. I have no idea.
But that's who it was.
I saw that part of the package that they won was also a photo shoot.
I saw that in a couple of places.
With Culture Club? Yeah.
Okay. And then one of the marshals who headed up the Hartford, Connecticut Boy George scam said it was just like one of the other ones where like when you went to get picked up by this limo, right when you got in the limo, they arrested you.
He said all these people that they got with this were all dressed up to go to the Culture Club concert.
Oh, God. Can you imagine what they looked like when they arrived in jail?
Like those feathers that you clipped to your ear.
Yeah, yeah. Like, glitter war paint, like, on your cheeks.
Like, the whole shebang.
I wonder if they said bad karma chameleon for you, my friend.
I love all the extras, too.
It wasn't just like tickets to a concert.
It was always like, and dinner and a photo shoot.
Like, I guess they really thought they needed to make it something someone couldn't refuse, I guess.
Right. How can you refuse a photo shoot with boy George?
Yeah, but we laugh.
Fist, seven. netted 3 ,300 arrests and is the largest fugitive roundup in American history still to this day.
Yeah. 3 ,200 of them came from the Boy George scam.
That feels like we have to take a break right there, right?
I think we would be violating some sort of unwritten rule if we didn't right now.
All right. We're going to come back and talk about one that netted fewer arrests, but was definitely fun in Operation Flagship right after this.
We'll see you next time.
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Okay, Chuck, so we're back and we're finally talking about the titular scam operation flagship.
That's right. How do you like that?
That's pretty good.
I love the word titular.
Thank you. It's arousing.
I can't pick up another word for it, but let's just say arousing.
Yeah, yeah. This was thought up.
It was a brainchild of a guy named Howard Safir.
He was head of enforcement operations at the time.
Seven was a big success.
And he's like, at the Christmas party, he was a little toasty, and said, what has everybody got?
He had too much of Grandma's Christmas breath.
And he said, what's everyone got?
I need some fun ideas.
And Robert Leshorn, the guy, the Brooklyn Bridge Delivery Service guy, still basking in the glow of those tailor -made packages to the criminals, he apparently came up with this idea, and it was football tickets.
One of the hottest tickets in football at the time in 1985 was there at RFK Stadium for what was then the Washington Redskins, now the Washington Commanders since the name changed.
But they were the Redskins then.
They had won the Super Bowl, beat the Dolphins in 83, lost to the Raiders in the Super Bowl in 84 and 85.
Expectations were high.
Season tickets, 25 -year waiting list for season tickets.
Every game is sold out at RFK.
And so offering up free tickets to criminals in the D .C.
area seemed like a no -brainer.
Yeah. This particular game versus the Bengals on December 15, 1985, whoever won was going to win a wild card playoff berth, which has significance.
So it was an important game.
I feel like, I don't know, you should get a little gold star for your football knowledge right there.
Thank you. Also, not to mention, too, I mean, even looking back, you're like, wow, these guys are great.
But at the time, these two were at the peak of their careers.
It was Theismann versus Esiason as far as the quarterbacks went.
Theismann. Is it really Theismann?
Yeah. The story goes it was Joe Theismann, and in college, he changed it to Theismann to rhyme with Heismann.
Oh, really? That's what they say.
Did he win the Heismann?
I mean the Heismann?
I'm actually not sure if he did or not, But his leg got snapped on national TV.
I was watching that game.
It was horrific. Wasn't that a Super Bowl?
No. Oh, it was a – No, no, no.
It wasn't a Super Bowl.
Yeah, that was horrific.
I mean, it was a compound fracture that came out of his thigh, right?
I don't think it was his thigh.
I think it was the lower leg.
But I just I remember it was that was the first horrific injury that I saw on TV that, even though I didn't know it at the time, activated my mirror neurons in a way that was quite striking.
One of the ones that got me, there was a Miami Hurricanes player in early 2000s.
And he was like running down the sideline and somebody dove to knock him out of well, out of bounds.
Bounce. And and they got him right in his knee and his knee turned into like his whole his whole leg.
But the apex was his knee just turned into a rubber band that went really far to the left.
And it's always so disturbing.
It was they kept showing like this was this is the zeitgeist at the time.
They showed that injury in slow motion 15 times.
Yeah. The dude was laying on the field.
They didn't cut to anything.
They just kept showing it over and over like it was a new volume of Faces of Death or something like that.
Yeah, they did that for up until not too, too long ago.
And then they stopped anytime there's a serious injury like that.
They're like, we're not, you know, we don't show the replays of these things anymore.
We probably shouldn't feed the blood lust.
Yeah, exactly. But yeah, so anyway, that was, that was, it's forever burned into my brain, that image.
And I don't think he broke anything.
He just apparently has, like, the most flexible, resilient leg of anybody's.
So he was fine? Yeah.
I don't know if he was fine.
I don't remember that.
I just remember, like, I don't think he was, like, anything broke.
It just went booop.
Oh, was that old Rubber Knee Richards?
Yeah. Yeah. But ironically, I think he had the nickname before that because he could play the rubber bands on his knee.
This has gotten so off the rails.
Oh, yeah, we're talking about the cops.
Yeah, that's right.
All right, so we're back to Robert Leshorn.
He's the one that came up with this idea to give away these tickets.
He said, here's what we'll do.
We'll create a fake TV station, like a rock music TV station, like a local MTV basically, WROC video, and that's going to head up this whole thing.
And this is where they get cued again.
The prize letters that they sent out were signed by station manager I .M.
Detonaw, If you spell that backwards, it is I am wanted.
Get it? Yeah. And then the guy who they said you had to call in or whatever, the business manager that took the phone call, his name was Marcus Cran, C -R -A -N, spelled backwards as narc.
No. Yes. And supposedly, and I did not verify this, but there was one source that said the whole music when you called was, I Fault the Law and the Law Won by Bobby Fuller.
Yeah. And I was like, come on.
Like, really? Right.
So even if, even taking that one out, it is 100 % confirmed that they signed it.
I am Wanted backwards.
I am Detonil. Yeah.
The Cran thing, is that pretty much 100 %?
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's in the NFL Films documentary.
You see the guy typing that name at a computer.
Yeah. So like this is like, these are the things that they're doing to just make it like a whole tee heehee thing.
Right. Right. To where, if you, again, if you step back, no reason, but to amuse themselves.
Like there's no reason, as we'll see, I'm sure part of the reason also was for the media blitz that they knew was coming after they pulled this off.
Yeah, yeah. But not only is there really no reason for it, you're actually sacrificing potential captures because there's people— You're tempting fate.
Some of these people have wives.
All you had to do was show your wife that letter and say this is wanted backwards, you know.
Hey, you dummy. Yeah.
How many of these people fell through the dragnet because they saw that Deton is wanted backwards?
And they're like, I think this is not legitimate.
Yeah, yeah. They mailed out 3 ,000 of these letters to fugitives for a total of 5 ,117 outstanding warrants between those 3 ,000.
Said you won this thing.
Plus a grand prize drawing for Super Bowl tickets that year.
The flagship international sports television was the fake station, Fist.
So they did it again.
About half the letters came back, returned to sender.
The others, again, were told to call Marcus Cran to confirm their attendance.
And a few of the people that called in were like, wait a minute, this is the cops.
But out of the 3 ,000, it's not very many, apparently about 160 people RSVP'd, which would still be a pretty good take, I guess.
Sure. And they said, all right, come on down to the Washington Convention Center at 9 a .m.
on game day. We're going to have a big brunch and a big party and then shuttle you over to the game.
Yes. And I thought something you mentioned is worth emphasizing that being entered in a grand prize drawing for tickets to Super Bowl XX in New Orleans.
That actually struck me as a really nice touch because now you've moved the focus a little further out and you're diluting the focus that's being paid to this most immediate thing.
So they're thinking about something else as well.
I thought that really was a good touch.
Yeah, I agree. So to get prepared for this whole thing, they held three different dress rehearsals.
That's dedicated for sure because this was a big production.
And it was smart that they held three different dress rehearsals because, again, there's a lot of moving parts.
There's a ton of different cops.
I think 166 different agents were involved.
They were all cops.
Everyone there was a cop, like the busboy was a cop.
The person serving your drink was a cop.
Yeah, the janitors were cops.
Everybody was cops.
Like when you walked into the Washington Convention Center that day, there was no one who wasn't a cop, a wanted fugitive or the plus one of the wanted fugitive who had the haplessness of being brought along to this whole show.
Yeah, the real victims.
Yeah. So so they rehearsed it many, many times.
And one of the things I saw of these 166 law enforcement agents that were part of this, a lot of them were brought in from out of state because they didn't want to risk some of these fugitives from recognizing.
Yeah. The the marshals who say like were in the courtroom with them when they were first brought to trial or had escorted them from jail to prison before they escaped or something like that.
So they brought in a lot of ringers from around the country.
So there was a lot of cops working from a lot of different offices, all for this one huge scam operation flagship.
Yeah. They had to shave a lot of about half of their mustaches.
Yeah. If you watch, I mean, you can see this whole thing.
There's a it's it's only like 12 minutes long and NFL films documentary on this on YouTube or wherever.
And you can watch the whole thing play out.
It's incredible. But it looks like a room staffed with 166 cops dressed up as different things.
Yeah, I made it through up to, I think, minute three.
I was like, I cannot watch law enforcement try to play it tongue in cheek.
It's just I can't do it.
Yeah. Even the cheerleaders who were not dressed as cheerleaders, they were dressed in tuxedos.
Like everyone there was wearing a tux, which was hysterical.
Because, you know, it was 1985.
That's the epitome of class.
But they were all cops, and one of the women that was interviewed, she was like, I didn't want to do a cheerleader.
She was like, I was in this – I was a U .S.
marshal. I was rough and tumble, and I wanted to, you know, throw some guys on the ground and put the cuffs on them.
But they were like, no, we need you to be a cheerleader, and you're actually the first line of defense.
Because what they did was they hugged these guys upon greeting, like, hey, we're cheerleaders, hug, hug, hug.
and they're sort of patting him down and feeling for weapons which is amazing what was that there's some movie where they do that's a great comedic effect oh really yeah i can't remember but they're they're like hugging people while patting them down but like just clearly patting them down man that's
gonna drive me crazy now you'll think of it later uh or somebody will email in i'll bet at least one person does yeah um so uh yeah the like we said everybody there who was in this building was a cop, including the San Diego Chicken was armed, was an armed cop.
That just goes to show you how big the San Diego Chicken was in the early to mid 80s, that they were like, bring the San Diego Chicken in for this Washington Cincinnati football game on the other side of the country.
Make sure the San Diego Chicken's there just to legitimize things.
Yeah, because that was the chicken was for the Padres, not the Chargers even at the time.
The only explanation I saw in the video was, they said something about Santa Claus was going to be there.
And I don't know why, this is the part that has no explanation.
He said, oh, we were like, we can't have Santa Claus.
So let's get the San Diego chicken.
And I was like, he said that as if that was the most reasonable statement he could make.
Really? That's hilarious.
It's very funny. That is, that shows a little heart.
Yeah, for sure. I should also say I poked fun at law enforcement trying to be funny so I looked up to see if there's any cops turned comedians and there are oh sure I bet there are and I bet that's their whole act I don't know if it is or not but I can just tell you to go out and check these guys out
there's Kevin Jordan Chad Ridgely who went on to be a groundling Jim Perry Officer Perry and Alfie Moore and I defy you to find the one Brit out of those yeah I bet it's not Alfie all right so i'm a bulby right wow that was a great alfie moore impression he's the kind of guy that talks like that i think
anyway i just wanted to toss that out there because very nice thanks uh leshorn as for his part um he's in the video he's saying like nobody can act like a copier we got a smile and he says in this uh in the nfl film scene he goes i know we're not used to smiling at bandits, but today we need to.
I was like, bandits?
What is happening in 1985?
That's right. Yeah, he said no one can act like a cop.
Kill them with smiles.
Right. Yeah. Not with a planted gun.
Right. Oh, my gosh.
So, like I said, there's a lot of moving parts in a scene where you're trying to nab 160 or so criminals all at once.
Again, they rehearsed it three different times, But there's still tons of X factors that can crop up that you just can't plan for.
And one of the reasons why they were really kind of on edge is some of these criminals who they'd invited were pretty hardcore.
They were like armed robbers, rapists.
There was one murderer in particular who had escaped from prison.
He and two other guys had dressed up as security or not security guards, prison guards.
and from what I was reading, they have no idea where they got these prison guard uniforms, but they managed to escape.
The other two guys got caught.
The other guy, Charles Watkins, again, who was in on murder, he had become a fugitive and was wanted as a top 10 fugitive in the DC area.
So he was a big fish that they were trying to reel in, but at the same time, this guy's a murderer on the run.
You have no idea what he's going to do.
So they really had to kind of keep it tight as much as possible.
I say that before we get to the actual day, December 15th, 1985, we take another break.
All right, let's do it.
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It is not Christmas, but it certainly feels like it in 1985.
It's December 15th.
The Washington Convention Center is decked out.
There's a big TV playing highlights of the Redskins season thus far.
There's music playing.
Everyone's in those tuxes.
They got red and gold balloons they're handing out.
It's really fun to watch this thing play out.
You've got these cheerleaders hugging and patting these guys down.
One guy is, like, leaning in trying to kiss one of the women, and she's just, like, pulling her face away.
Oh, yeah. And still has her arm around it.
In fact, she actually, Stacia Hilton, she was the U .S.
marshal, the cheerleader that they interviewed, or fake cheerleader.
And later on, she had gotten out and was brought back into the service as an appointment as director of U .S.
marshal service by President Obama.
Yeah. Pretty cool. So for this day, she's a Redskins cheerleader.
Yeah, exactly. So what they would do is the cheerleaders would hug you as you were coming in, would not accept kisses, it turns out, but they would hug you, pat you down.
Although you weren't supposed to know that you were being patted down, they would direct you toward a table.
She's a good hugger.
Right, exactly. Very thorough.
So they would point you to this table where you would check in and to claim your prize to make sure you were you, you had to show positive ID.
And then when they verified that you were on the list, meaning that you were a wanted fugitive who just showed up to claim your two free tickets to the Washington Redskins football game, they would give you a name tag.
And the name tag would say confirmed winner.
And then if you were a dangerous criminal, they would give you a name tag that said double winner.
And I could not find anywhere how they would explain why somebody was a double winner and not just a confirmed winner.
Like, hey, what does that mean?
Right, exactly. Like, why me?
I have no idea what they said.
Surely they had to say something, but I could not find it.
It's lost to history.
He said, you're dangerously close to winning the Super Bowl tickets, too.
That was great. That's how they do it in the movie, at least.
So one person came that was not expected.
It was an attorney from a local TV station that had the local broadcast rights to the games.
He heard about this flagship international sports television, aka Fist, and he was like, wait a minute, they can't do this.
I'm going to give them a piece of my mind.
Exactly. He shows up with a cease and desist letter, and the cops got him out of there.
They were like, here, why don't you go have a talk with these two cheerleaders?
They're like, buddy, you're going to blow our cover here.
Yeah, they shot him in the leg.
Yeah, he hobbled out of there.
No, they took him outside.
They had to keep it under wraps.
So, okay, you want to talk about unexpected guests?
Sure. Do you want to know the definition of a scumbag?
Sure. A fugitive who gets caught up in the dragnet of a scam carried out by the U .S.
Marshal Service in 1985 and shows up without bothering to RSVP.
There were 15 of them.
That's funny. They just came?
Yep. They just showed up.
Didn't even bother the RSVP.
It just got under my skin when I saw that.
This is bad manners.
For sure. So there was a decent amount of people in this convention center.
I mean, 100 and something, 150 cops, I think, 160.
60, a little over one cop to one fugitive.
And then most of these fugitives had a plus one, if not all of them.
So there is hundreds of people in this convention center.
And like you said, it was a big party atmosphere, but right under the surface, there's a bunch of people with guns ready to like take you to jail.
But the problem is you can't just round everybody up all at once, right?
So what they did was pretty clever.
they would take 15 to 20 winners at a time to one of like the separate conference rooms in this convention center, which really, it made me nostalgic, Chuck, because we played a show or two in the conference room of a convention center, you know?
Yeah. Australia loves those.
Yeah. And they would sit them down and they would present them with some, I guess, spiel to start as they shut the doors and everybody was settling into their chairs.
Yeah, this is Louis McKinney.
He's on a stage. And then, again, this is just like, hey, this is the party room where you're going to get your actual tickets.
And he's the emcee.
He's the master of ceremonies.
He's wearing a top hat, a literal black top hat.
And he doesn't just go up there and say you're all under arrest.
He settles everyone down.
He said he wanted everyone to kind of get settled in and calm.
So he's just doing a bit.
He's doing stage work about how excited everyone is and getting everyone, like, pumped up.
And then, and you can literally watch this happen.
He says, on behalf of Flagship International, we have a big surprise for you this morning.
Everybody's under arrest.
And you see behind the doors, you see all these, like, SWAT cops.
It's their version of the SWAT, their SOG, a special operations group.
That doesn't spell anything clever.
They're, like, have literal shotguns, and they're just, like, right behind the door.
Yeah, exactly. They rappel in through the windows, you know, break through the windows.
No, they just, they literally just like kick in the door and go running in with shotguns.
And you see these guys that like, about a third of them like immediately sort of put their hands on their heads as they were being directed to and get on the ground.
And about a third of them are like, what's happening here?
Is this part of the prize?
Yeah, they didn't know what was going on.
But, you know, soon enough they had them, you know, face down on the floor.
Yeah, sometimes violently.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Fifteen people at a time, then escort them out a different door and just, you know, keep doing that over and over until they got everybody.
I have to say something really quick while I was researching this.
I had a great little brush with coincidence that I was reading.
I got to that part where McKinney says everybody's under arrest and I just happened to be listening to the Beach Boys Smile album at the time.
Oh, yeah. It's not something I've listened to a lot.
I just happened to decide to listen to that while I was researching this.
And within seconds of reading that part, it reaches the part in the Beach Boys album where they say, you're under arrest.
Wow. And that's worth, I mean, that's something, right?
I mean, that's not your everyday coincidence.
No, I love stuff like that.
I do too. So anyway, back to the story, Dave, like I said, helped us with this and he wondered something that I did as well.
what happened to all the guests who are like the crowd of plus ones are getting left behind in larger and larger droves as this party room is like you know set and reset and people get taken out of the back door to jail yeah and no one knows i mean no at least no one ever covered what happened they
yeah i mean i imagine it was i've got some bad news and some more bad news Like, there is no good news.
It's like your friend has been arrested, and you're also not going to this football game.
And you also have to find your way home somehow.
Surely they gave them a ride home, at least.
Oh, I don't know about that.
I don't know about that.
I mean, I was laughing about their victims, but they really are.
I mean, what a bummer.
For sure. Especially those wives that found out that their husbands didn't let them read the letter.
Right. From I .M. Detnaugh.
And didn't want to go to the game to begin with.
Right. Yeah. Oh, my God.
There are definitely plus ones like that.
Yeah. Oh, man. So when this whole thing was pulled off, the reason why the NFL Films little mini documentary is so thorough is the media was there and it would make sense the media was there because this is supposed to be some big deal celebration.
So you see people who are like fugitives about to be arrested coming into the convention center, like party, like into the cameras that are really like there to film their arrest.
But they think they're there to film this big celebration because they won these tickets.
The L .A. Times was there.
CBS News was there.
Washington Post was there.
They were like journalists were allowed to go basically everywhere.
They're allowed to interview all of the all of the higher ups conducting this thing.
I guess they were just required to basically play it straight and pretend like they didn't know what was going on.
But as a result of this direct involvement of the media, there was a huge national celebration for how great the U .S.
Marshal Service was and how well they pulled off this amazing sting with not a single shot fired.
And aside from violently throwing some of these people to the floor, totally nonviolent roundup of 100 plus perps.
Yeah. I mean, that's the that's why you do it like this for the for the safety and for the money savings or the efficiency, rather, I guess, financially.
But the PR aspect of this should not be overlooked.
Like they wanted them to film this.
They wanted them to know all the cutesy stuff.
So one day, NFL Films would release a mini doc and future podcasters would talk about it and sort of make fun of it, but also bring them, you know, some attention.
So the PR part of it was a very purposeful big deal.
The guy, I've seen lots of different numbers bandied about by how many people they actually got.
I think 144 arrests is what Dave saw.
But in the documentary, the guy whose brainchild it was, said it was 101.
Really? But if you do the math on 101 arrests, it costs them $22 ,100 to pull this off.
That breaks down to just $218 if they got 101 arrests.
And the average cost of just a per fugitive cost of nabbing a single fugitive is about almost $1 ,300.
So that's a big, efficient haul if you really look at it that way.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's super efficient.
And again, not a single shot fired.
And don't forget, they nabbed Charles Watkins, the big fish they were trying to reel in, the murderer who had escaped from prison dressed as a prison guard, which really, if you're going to escape from prison, that's a real black eye to that particular prison dressing up as one of their own guards and escaping.
So it was a big deal that they caught this guy.
And Stanley Morris, who was the head of the marshal service at the time, was quoted in the L .A.
Times saying it's a safe, clean and creative way to get these people off the streets.
There's no safer way to make an arrest than away from the home environment.
Yeah. I mean, he's probably right.
As far as Charles Watkins goes in.
And Dave got some of this, by the way, you want to shout out the podcast Criminal.
Huge shout out. Yeah, because they covered this.
And I think, Dave, they've listened to that and got a couple of these things in the end here from there.
Yeah, it was a December twenty twenty four episode.
So. So what I'm pretty recently is that the listener wrote in after hearing the criminal episode, maybe that I've got a great idea for your episode.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So go check that out for Criminals' point of view.
I'm sure it's pretty great because it's a great podcast.
But apparently there was a producer from CBS News named Alan Goldberg who went back at the footage and was like, I think he just thought some of this stuff was a little fishier than it was made out to be as some big, huge success.
And he saw footage on there of Charles Watkins, a 50 -year -old man, saying like, you got the wrong guy, you got the wrong guy.
And it turns out they got the wrong guy.
They got Charles Watkins Sr.
Charles Watkins, the murderer that was the felon or rather fugitive and felon was his son.
He was 20 years old.
They got the wrong person.
Yeah. Apparently big fish was the wrong fish.
Yeah. According to criminal, like he he finally was able to convince them by showing like some ID and some other like identification saying, like, I'm not the guy you're looking for.
you're looking for my son.
And huge, again, hat tip to criminal.
They did some serious digging.
Like I was listening to it.
And Alan Goldberg, who is a huge source for this, they're the ones that he talked to.
This is not like all over the place.
Like they found this guy and managed to just completely turn all of the coverage of Operation Flagship.
Still today, when you read contemporary stuff about Operation Flagship, it is unquestioningly written about as just his perfect success.
Yeah, yeah. They found this guy who was like, this is not actually how it went at all.
There's actually, in addition to getting the wrong Charles Watkins, the other big fish they were trying to get, Lloyd Golden.
He was a top -ted wanted fugitive for armed robbery.
And this Alan Goldberg, you know, God bless him for his journalist streak, he dug into Lloyd Golden and found that he was wanted for selling some drugs, not armed robbery.
He wasn't on any kind of top -ten list.
So that's bad enough.
But when you really start digging into it, you're like, well, this is not only a waste of money, it turns out, even though it was super efficient.
It's actually legal, but pretty unethical considering who they actually did nab in this dragnet.
Yeah, I mean, it was mainly misdemeanor offenders, a lot of parole violations.
There were six traffic offenses in there.
And now remember, a lot of these people were thrown to the ground regardless of their of what they were wanted for.
They were a fugitive and they were thrown to the ground violently in some cases for traffic offenses.
Yeah, exactly. There was one guy and you can see him in the NFL film stock as they're bringing him out.
He was like, man, he's like, you know where I live.
You could have come to my house.
It's like basically like, why did you drag me down here and make me go through all this?
Just come knock on my door and arrest me.
He's like, I want to speak to Mr.
Detnow now. This turned out to be sort of the beginning of the end, though.
It is, again, still praised as a success if you look at any U .S.
Marshals stuff. But they, I think like Fist9 was just regular police work over a period of eight weeks.
They got a bunch of more fugitives, which is great.
Yeah, pretty impressive.
3 ,500 fugitives in eight weeks over four states and parts of Mexico.
That's with no scams whatsoever.
Yeah, no scams. But they don't do this stuff anymore.
I guess this is sort of the golden age of that kind of thing.
They're still out getting fugitives.
I think last year they captured more than 3 ,000 violent fugitives in Operation North Star, but that did not involve Culture Club tickets or sweepstakes prizes or anything like that.
I think the answer is that starting in 1986, they went to nothing but beer and wine at their Christmas parties.
Yeah, not the rum punch.
Right, right. So one of the things about Operation Flagship is that it is so nuts that it actually happened.
And when you just step back and look at it from the, you know, from the total outside and how great it was and everything, it's extremely entertaining.
Cops smart, criminals stupid.
Can you believe they fell for this?
There's football involved.
Like it has everything you could possibly want.
Right. So it did actually inspire some stuff.
Like we said, that whole Mr.
Zip thing inspired like the I've got some rose delivery for you, Fugitive.
This specific Operation Flagship inspired apparently the opening scene in Sea of Love with Al Pacino.
Where Samuel Jackson is among the fugitives who are tricked into a Meet the Yankees scam.
Yeah. Yeah, that that was copped directly from this, I'm sure.
There was. So have you seen the movie Trap?
M. Night Shyamalan's vehicle for his daughter's musical career?
Yeah. Have you seen it?
No. OK, I just want to talk for one quick minute about this, because I heard this movie on two different movie podcasts I listen to.
Scott hasn't seen. He covered this with Mike Castle, husband to Lauren Lapkus as the guest.
And then it was also on The Flophouse, one of my favorite shows that I've listened to forever, on the MaxFun Network where they cover bad movies.
Elliott, Dan, and Stu.
So Trap is bad then?
Yeah, yeah. It's wonderfully bad, though.
Like, I heard both of these before I saw it, and I was like, I've got to watch this movie now because it's so funny bad.
Wow. And it is. I highly recommend the M.
Night Shyamalan, Josh Hartnett movie trap because it is so ridiculous and awful.
And the choices that are made as a movie are just bonkers and hysterical.
OK. So I know I am a sentient adult human being, and I know that a lot of M.
Night Shyamalan, some of his films are bad.
Yeah. Yeah. Just bad.
Terrible. I hated signs.
Hated signs. Although that was largely because of Mel Gibson's acting or overacting.
Most of them are pretty bad to me.
He's got a handful of pretty good ones, but yeah.
Well, that's what I was going to say.
I will still watch every movie that that man puts out because they're so imaginative, so creative.
I also love the cinematography in his films.
It's always so dark and moody.
Yeah, they look pretty good.
The Sixth Sense is one of the greatest films of all time.
Yeah. And even like you can give up on him and then come back years later and watch the stuff that you missed.
And you're like, man, I love this stuff.
It's such a great thing to watch on like Saturday afternoon or something like that.
Yeah, I like the Unbreakable movie and the Split, whatever.
There was like a trilogy in that world.
Glass and Split. Yeah, I thought all those were pretty good.
But yeah, a lot of his movies are really bad, but still well -made enough to be worthwhile, even if it's just sort of like a cringe, fun watch.
And Trap is one of them.
And, you know, whenever he pops up in his own movies, it's always so bad and dumb and obvious.
And he does so in the funniest, worst way in Trap.
Okay, good. I gotta see this.
It's really a fun, bad movie watch.
I highly recommend it.
Have you seen A Knock at the Cabin Door?
I have not seen that one.
That's good. I don't see them all.
Have you ever seen Servant, the show he made?
Uh -uh. good bad no it's really good it's a really good show like he does a great job he's a confounding filmmaker yeah you know just just watch servant I think you'll like it I haven't seen all of the seasons I might have seen the first three and then I stopped but I can tell you the first three are definitely
worth watching I think you'll get sucked in pretty quick yeah uh we cannot finish though even though I did mention Homer Simpson earlier uh one of the great great Simpsons episodes they had a sting operation where they were giving away a boat, right?
Yeah. Yes, I'm sorry.
I watched it yesterday.
I guess I was watching it.
I noticed something that I'd never noticed before.
What was it? At the head of the scene, at the beginning, as they're pulling up to the police station, Homer's falling for a scam like Operation Flagship, but instead of Redskins tickets, it's a free motorboat.
Yeah. So he's all, he's all ready for this.
He's wearing a captain's hat, driving the family up to the police station to claim his free motorboat.
And at the beginning of the scene as they're pulling up, Lou, one of the cops has the door kind of like slightly jarred and is peeking out right when he sees Homer pull up.
He like closes the door real quick.
Oh my God, you have to see it.
Like, I can't do it justice.
It's just this extra quick little thing that did not need to be added at all, but makes And it's just that whole scene so just perfect.
Oh, just the heyday of that show.
Yeah, season nine. And the whole episode, by the way, too, Lisa the Skeptic is like one of the more heartfelt episodes around, too.
It's so good. Hello, why are the pretty ones always insane?
One of my favorites.
Also, a little nugget on the end, if you're ever in Fort Smith, Arkansas, and why else would you be there?
But going to the U .S.
Marshall Museum, you can see Louie McKinney's M .C.
Black Top Hat on display.
Very nice. That was a nice little nugget.
Yeah. Thanks, Dave, for that nugget.
Yeah. Thank you, Dave.
That was great. We appreciate the assist on this one and on Harry Belafonte.
It's Dave Week, everybody.
That's right. And since I said it's Dave Week again, that unlocked listener mail.
Hey, guys. Love the show.
I just started listening around 2018.
I'm now realizing that was seven years ago.
My commute to work is about 15 minutes in each direction.
So your release schedule is perfect to listen to a fresh SYSK episode all the time.
So fresh. I was listening to Automats and hearing Chuck weirded out about pie for breakfast is so funny to me.
Because I'm a chef and I will never understand why pie, sweetened, thickened fruit in a pastry, is dessert.
But a Danish or a jelly donut, sweetened, thickened fruit in a pastry are breakfast.
And by the way, this totally vindicates you because when you were like pie for breakfast and I was like, that sounds so crazy.
And you said most breakfast foods are dessert.
And I was like, what are you talking about?
You're completely right.
I wasn't thinking about all this stuff.
Oh, I love it when you say stuff like that.
I was thinking about eggs and bacon, but I forgot about the sweet side of breakfast and all that stuff is dessert.
Same goes for cake and pancakes, flour, sugar, eggs, baking powder with a sweet condiment.
French toast is plain white bread dipped in a sweet cinnamon custard, griddled, and then you drizzle sugar syrup on top of it.
I love that stuff. So guys, Josh is right.
Lots of breakfast foods are pretty much dessert.
And I say if it makes you happy, there's no reason to keep away from dessert foods at breakfast.
Your stomach doesn't know what time of day it is.
Thanks for all the amazing information.
I've learned so much from you guys and always have a great time listening.
That is from Aaron Brittingham.
And Aaron, thanks for proving me wrong.
I forgot about all the sweet breakfast stuff.
Thanks for proving me right.
Yeah, and not to even mention cereal.
I mean, what is Captain Crunch besides a bowl of dessert?
That's right. I like to have a balanced breakfast.
I like the dessert part with a bunch of pancakes or French toast and syrup.
Then I also like the eggs and the bacon part, too.
Breakfast is my favorite meal that I never eat.
But when I do, by God, I love it.
Well, yeah, I'm the same way.
I don't typically eat breakfast.
So if I'm going to eat breakfast breakfast, like it's going to be something like that.
Agreed. I gave up cereal and I'm the better off for it.
I just have to admit.
Yeah, I don't eat that stuff anymore.
But if I'm on vacation and there's a good breakfast place, I'm going to party down and then I'll skip lunch.
That's right. Nice work, Charles.
Well, if you want to be like Aaron and vindicate me, bring it on.
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The Unshakables podcast is kicking off season two with an episode you won't want to miss.
Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business, as he welcomes a very special guest, Chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon.
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This is Laurie Santos, and I'm here with Charlotte Noble, Certified Wellness Coach.
Charlotte, why did you apply to become certified as a wellness coach?
For me, it was all about having that introductory level positioned into mental health.
And also it's being there for students who are really dealing with mental health challenges in a rural community.
Today's young people, they're facing so much.
And I feel really passionate about providing them with the kind of early accessible support that can make a huge difference.
What would you like people to know about the unique challenges that children and youth face today?
They're growing up in a world now that's pretty complex in ways that we didn't have to deal with before.
I mean, they're immersed in the digital age with social media.
That can really define their self -worth and their identity.
So often setting almost like these impossible standards.
On top of that, feeling the weight of academic pressures, economic uncertainties and social issues in day -to -day life.
To learn more, visit cawellnesscoach .org.
