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You're listening to the Brains On Universe.
You're listening to Brains On, where we're serious about being curious.
If you've ever had the wiggles or couldn't stop clicking a pen, if you twirl your hair or tap your fingers, you know all about today's topic, fidgeting.
It's something so common, a lot of us don't even realize we're doing it.
When I was talking with a patient and I asked them if they fidgeted, they said no.
And I noticed they were grabbing things off of my desk.
So they're grabbing my pencil, my stapler, other things on a desk.
And I said, well, what are you doing right now?
You're fidgeting with things on my desk.
We'll hear from someone who studies fidgeting and learn how sometimes it helps us and sometimes it doesn't.
Plus, armpit farts, mouth trumpets, and a few theories on why we fidget in the first place.
While here, we just moved into our brand new headquarters and... It has that new headquarters smell.
And a lot of dust.
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We do it all, except being CEO.
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This is Brains On from the Brains On Universe.
I'm your host, Molly Bloom, and I'm here with Penelope from Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Hi, Penelope.
Hi, Molly.
Today, we're finding out about fidgeting.
Fidgeting is moving your body, but you're not really trying to do anything specific.
Usually, you're making a small movement over and over without really thinking about it.
Sometimes you fidget with an object, like a pen.
Other times, you just use your body.
Now, Penelope, this episode was inspired by a question that you sent to us.
Yeah, I was wondering how and why fidgets help some people focus but distract others.
This is such a great question.
Now, Penelope, when you say fidgets, what do you mean?
Well, you know, those things that have started to pop up in stores recently, like for a while fidgets, those metal fidget spinner things were really popular.
So do you find fidgets help you focus or do they distract you?
Well, I really think they can do both.
I particularly like sometimes like fidgeting with some of my Rubik's cubes, especially the ones that have magnets in them, so that they snap into place.
I find that really satisfying.
That is very satisfying.
So what do you think the difference is between a fidget and a toy?
Well, I think it's kind of just how you use it.
Like once again back to Rubik's Cubes.
If you're just like fidgeting with it mindlessly while focusing on something else and not paying much attention to it, I think it's a fidget.
But if you're putting a lot of your attention and focus into it and energy into it and trying to solve it, it probably becomes more of a toy.
That's a really good distinction.
So you're saying that it's a fidget if you're just kind of not really thinking about it but just kind of moving it.
And then it becomes a toy when you're like concentrating on it.
Yeah.
That's really great.
Do you fidget without fidget toys?
Yeah, I think everyone does, even if they don't notice, like just shifting in their chair or tapping their pencils on the desks or their foot.
When do you find yourself needing to fidget the most?
Usually when I'm anxious about something, probably.
Yeah, for me, I do it a lot when I'm kind of bored but trying to focus.
Yeah.
Where I'm like, okay, Molly.
Don't look at your phone.
Do something else.
And I'll take out some silly putty and I'll play with it and it helps me a little bit.
So you sent this question and you said you know why do some people find them helpful but distract others?
And I'm wondering what made you think of that question?
In the fidget box in fifth grade I noticed that a lot of kids were like trading them under the desks and stuff and getting distracted by them, or like tossing them around and things like that.
And sometimes like fighting over them and they didn't seem to be very helpful, to be honest.
So I was wondering.
So that distinction you made.
They were using them in that way where they focus on them rather than just use them as a helper.
And were there fidgets that were your favorites to use in class?
Yes.
I really like these squishy rubber egg things, but they were taken out of the box after kids kept tossing them around the classroom.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
You know, if it's shaped like a ball, someone's going to throw it.
The toys we call fidgets are actually pretty new.
They've only gotten popular in the last 10 years or so.
Well, for me, that's almost my whole lifetime.
Okay yes, they've been around as long as you can remember, but these fidgets are not something that your parents had in elementary school.
But that doesn't mean fidgeting is new.
Absolutely.
Sometimes people need to fidget.
So there have been toys and other things to fidget with for a very long time.
They just weren't called fidgets.
Like bao ding balls.
They date back to the Ming Dynasty in China.
Yes, that's over 500 years ago.
Bao ding balls are two metal balls that fit in the palm of your hand and you can twirl them around, making them switch places with each other.
Or yo-yos.
Those have been around for thousands of years.
Or even silly putty, you know, that rubbery gummy stuff you can stretch and squish.
That's been around since 1943.
Or the Rubik's Cube.
It's a blocky puzzle with lots of colorful squares.
And it was invented in the 1970s.
Even without toys, we find ways to fidget.
Playing with your hair or your jewelry.
Giggling your foot or tapping your fingers.
Twirling your pen or even doodling.
Lots of humans, young and old, fidget from time to time.
But why?
Why do humans feel a need to fidget?
Experts aren't 100 sure why we fidget, but one possible reason is that we fidget when we really just want to be moving our bodies.
Yeah, at school I see a lot of kids fidget when we've been sitting still at our desks for a long time.
You might start to feel antsy.
And it makes a lot of sense why.
Our ancient ancestors had to spend all day hunting and gathering food.
They were always moving, and we're built to move a lot too.
But these days, we spend a lot of time trying to be still.
And fidgeting lets us move our bodies in a small way when we can't move in a big way.
To get some of the ants out of your pants?
Yup.
Or wiggle out the jiggles?
Sure.
So that's one big reason we fidget.
We also fidget sometimes when we're bored, like when we're daydreaming or just zoning out.
Penelope, you said earlier that you fidget when you may be anxious.
Do you ever fidget when you're bored?
Oh, yeah, definitely.
Don't we all?
Yes, I think we do.
So when I'm feeling bored or fidgety, I like to play with something in my hands.
I'm a big Silly Putty fan.
Very squishy.
I can make it into different shapes.
And honestly, I think I've started using my phone as a fidget, which is not a good habit.
Hi, Molly.
Hi, Penelope.
I hope I'm interrupting something.
Oh, it's Brains On intern Rebecca Rand.
You are interrupting something, actually.
We're doing our episode about fidgeting.
Perfect.
I was hoping to interrupt that.
I'm here to explain that fidgeting is a form of self regulation.
I've heard of self regulation.
It's a way you can control or regulate your energy level or your feelings.
Exactly.
I self-regulate all the time.
We all do.
Like, the other day, I was auditioning to play the mouth trumpet in my local body parts band.
Body parts band?
Yeah, you know, the tricep triangle, armpit tuba, mouth trumpet.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
So I was doing the audition over my computer and my heart was beating so hard that I couldn't even hear myself mouth trumpet.
So I told the person on the other line that I needed a quick break.
I ran to the freezer, got a bag of tater tots, and held it to my face.
You put frozen food on your face?
Wasn't that super cold?
Yes, that's exactly the point.
Having something cold on my face helped me, well, chill out.
I self-regulated.
And now I'm the first chair mouth trumpeter in the Body Parts Band.
Oh, okay.
But sometimes instead of needing to calm down, I need to hype myself up.
Like right before taping, Smash Boom Best.
I always put on spandex and dance to Beyonce's entire catalog.
Is that self-regulating too?
Totally.
These are just different ways of using our bodies to regulate our thoughts and feelings.
And fidgeting is just another way to self-regulate.
Especially if there's no Beyonce or frozen tater tots handy.
Oh, I always have tater tots handy.
Speaking of which, I've got some hot tots in the oven I need to take out.
Be right back.
Hey, Molly, while we wait, how about we do the...
Oh, yes.
Okay, Penelope, let's get to it.
Here it is.
Wow, that mystery sound had a lot of parts.
What is your guess?
I have no idea.
I definitely heard someone walking at some point, I think, and then it sounded like someone was eating something.
But before it sounded like maybe they were spinning something and was knocking something over, maybe something metal, I was thinking.
Good ears.
Do you want to hear it again?
Yeah.
Okay, let's hear it again.
Okay, so last time you were like spinning something metal.
Somebody chewing.
What do you think now?
Well, the first part sounded a bit like putting a lot of coins into like a vending machine or a claw machine.
Okay, so you think maybe possibly a vending machine.
And what do you think about the chewing?
No idea.
Maybe the person ordered a bag of chips and is eating them now?
I like that guess.
It also kind of sounded like those clickety-clackety, you know mechanical keyboards with the video games and stuff.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
I don't know what this is either.
I'm going to guess...
An excited baby alligator doing a claw machine at an arcade.
And they got so excited they started just crunching on the handle because they're a baby alligator.
That's kind of what it did sound like.
Right?
Okay.
Yeah.
We will hear it again, get another chance to guess, and hear the answer at the end of the show.
So stick around.
Hey friends, we're making a new mystery sound extravaganza with a twist.
This time we're only going to feature sounds found in nature.
And we want to hear from you.
Get outside and record a mystery sound made by the natural world.
Animals, water, the weather, whatever.
Tell us what makes a sound in your recording and send it to us.
Penelope, what's one of your favorite sounds found in nature?
I really like the sounds of like water flowing down rocks in like a stream or a brook.
Yes.
My school is near the woods, so sometimes I like to go there and just like listen to it.
Well, that sounds very peaceful.
That's such a nice break from the school day.
Well, listeners, share your nature sounds by heading to brainson.org.
While you're there, you could also send us your drawings and questions.
Keep listening.
You're listening to Brains On.
I'm Penelope.
And I'm Molly.
And I'm Rebecca.
Back with some sizzling spuds.
Anyone want a hot and tasty tut?
Yeah, of course I do.
Yeah, sure.
Mmm, so good.
Mm-hmm.
So good.
Okay, today we're talking about fidgeting.
Scientists aren't totally sure why we fidget, but one idea is that it helps us self-regulate.
Self-regulating is what we do when we're trying to change how we feel.
You can do it when you need to get hyped up or calm down.
So Rebecca, you said fidgeting is a form of self-regulation?
Yep.
Fidgeting is just another tool humans use to help ourselves.
And to help me explain, I've brought none other than my body parts band.
We've got Billy on the beatbox.
Any on the armpit parts.
And Tina on the Tummy Tom Toms.
Cool.
Nice to meet you.
So one time when we might need to self-regulate is when we're trying to pay attention in class.
Paying attention is actually a lot of work sometimes.
Totally.
It takes a lot of energy to ignore random feelings and sounds and other distractions going on around you.
And it also takes a lot of energy to follow what the teacher is saying and absorb all that information.
And sometimes fidgeting can help give you the energy you need to do all that.
How so?
Well, imagine you're in class and your energy levels are like this.
The teacher is talking on and on about something, and it's getting really hard to concentrate.
Your head is getting heavy.
It starts to nod.
But you can't sleep now.
There's a quiz tomorrow.
You've got to pay attention.
So you sit up in your seat and you start to doodle.
Doodling is actually a kind of fidgeting.
The way the pencil feels in your hand, the way it sounds scratching against the paper.
All of that information travels up to your brain and can kind of help wake you up a bit.
And just like that, you're in the zone.
Yep.
Some people prefer to jiggle their leg, others twirl a pen.
A lot of times we do this without even thinking about it.
Researchers believe that all of these behaviors can help us stimulate our brains and wake it up so that we can focus.
We're self-regulating.
It's like telling your body band to kick up the tempo.
Exactly.
Remember how I mentioned doodling?
Well, some research has found that doodling can help people do better on certain tasks and even remember better, compared to people who don't doodle.
Wow, so fidgeting can be super helpful.
Sometimes, yeah.
Fidgeting is your body's way of trying to change your mental state.
But it doesn't always work.
Yeah, like sometimes a kid might start doodling, but then they start drawing something really cool.
But then they realize they've started to lose track of what's happening in class.
Exactly.
It seems like probably the best.
Fidgeting is something that is just interesting enough that it stimulates our brain, but not so interesting it distracts us.
But wait, if we use fidgeting to make our minds more awake, then why do people fidget when they're nervous or uncomfortable?
Yeah, that's like your brain is already going too fast.
Wouldn't fidgeting make it go faster?
Excellent question.
And the short answer is we don't know for sure.
Fidgeting can sometimes be just a sign that someone is feeling nervous, but it's possible it might also help calm our brains down too.
Let's say you're at the doctor's office and you're waiting to get a shot and you're really nervous.
Your heart is beating fast and all your thoughts are going off in different directions.
Like this.
But then you start to fidget.
Maybe you find a clicky pen nearby.
And the sound and feeling of the clicks travel up to your brain.
The clicky pen gives your brain something steady to focus on.
It helps distract you from any feelings and thoughts that might be overwhelming you.
And all of a sudden, your thoughts have slowed down and you feel a little bit more comfortable.
So lots of people fidget and fidgeting can sometimes be helpful for us.
Right.
It can rev us up or calm us down.
But it's good to remember that one person's fidget can be another person's distraction, especially if that other person can see it or hear it, like if you're clicking a pen or tapping your foot.
So be considerate of other people and try to fidget in ways that don't bother the folks around you.
Well, thanks so much for telling us about fidgeting, Rebecca.
No, thank you guys.
It's been a blast.
But we gotta bounce.
The Body Band and I are heading to Coachella.
You're playing at Coachella?
The music festival?
Oh, no, no, no.
Coachella.
It's where we sit on the couch and eat snacks together.
It's very exclusive.
Sounds fun.
I love snacks.
Bye, Rebecca.
Bye, Body Band.
Okay.
While we were moving into this new headquarters, the mail really piled up.
So we've been making our way through all the questions jokes, drawings and cool facts that you sent us.
Let's see what's new by checking the mailbag.
Okay, this one is a drawing.
Let's open it.
Oh, wow.
This is... I have no words.
I'm just kidding.
I always have words.
I'm going to describe this explosion of color and creativity.
Cue the fancy arty music.
This one says... taping an episode from your biggest fan kate so kate drew the taping of an episode so what we have here is there's a table there's me molly i have a purple shirt on so cool it's my favorite color There's a microphone in front of me.
Then we've got Mark in a green shirt.
Another microphone.
We've got Mainika in a red shirt.
Another microphone.
Hi, Mainika.
We miss you.
And we got Sandon in a blue shirt and another microphone.
Sandon's also wearing glasses and so am I.
And then we have Kate in a yellow shirt with a microphone.
And standing off to the side, we've got Bob in a lovely plaid shirt and jeans.
Gungador looks to be dancing with ballet shoes on.
Incredible.
We've got Elevator saying, hi, I'm Elevator.
And then in the corner, we have a speaker that says, hi, I am Harvey.
Oh my gosh, Kate, this is so excellent.
Thank you for sending it to us.
Kate, I hope I did your work justice.
If you want to see today's mailbag masterpiece, head to BrainsOn's Instagram to check it out.
That's Brains underscore On.
And to send us your art, a science joke or your idea for a new room at BrainsOn headquarters, go to BrainsOnorg.
See you in the mailbag.
Today we're talking about fidgeting.
Lots of people do it and fidgeting has lots of uses.
It can help you when you feel antsy and need to move, or it can help you focus and calm down.
But fidget toys, the kind of toy that you asked us about, Penelope, those are fairly new.
We've brought in an expert on fidgeting and fidgets to help us answer your question.
Her name is Dr Julie Schweitzer.
Dr Schweitzer also talked to us for our episode all about ADHD.
You can find it wherever you're listening to this episode.
She's a psychologist at the Mind Institute at the University of California Davis.
And she's also a neuroscientist, which means she studies the brain.
Hi, Dr. Schweitzer.
Hello, Penelope.
Great to be here with you.
Yeah, I'm excited to talk too.
My first question is, when did you first notice fidget toys being used by your patients?
The first time I noticed it when I was talking with a patient and I asked them if they fidgeted and they said no, and I noticed they were grabbing things off of my desk.
So they're grabbing my pencil, my stapler, other things on a desk.
And I said, well, what are you doing right now?
You're fidgeting with things on my desk.
And the person said, oh yeah, my boyfriend complains about that all the time.
I take their remote control and play with their remote control all the time.
So sometimes people were doing it and they didn't even notice it.
What kind of neuroscientist are you?
Well, I study the brain in relationship to development.
So that is regarding how children's brains develop as they grow.
And also in relation to attention deficit hyperactivity disorders.
So kids who wiggle a lot or have trouble paying attention or some... challenges with self-control.
And we look at that over time also.
So those are the main areas and attention.
We're trying to figure out where attention lives in the brain.
So those are the main areas that I'm studying in the brain still.
Are fidget toys more helpful than other objects you can fidget with, like if at home you just found a zipper or a pen?
Are the ones that you buy engineered or designed in a certain way to be more helpful?
Well, I'm not so sure about that.
I think that certain people like the way certain fidgets feel.
And that's not always predictable.
Some people really like getting feedback.
Some people really like that.
Some people just need to rub something.
So I think it really depends on the person, but I don't know if ones that are specifically engineered for that are really necessarily more helpful.
Do you think it's okay, because it's different for everybody, to only let some kids have fidgets in the classroom but not others?
That is a really hard and good question.
I think you have to consider who else is in the classroom and if the fidgets are distracting to other people.
And I think people have to be really sensitive about what their needs are versus other people in the classroom too.
So if they are going to have a fidget, I would hope it would be something that wouldn't be very distracting to others.
So maybe it's just some material that they rub their fingers on, or maybe it's a band, either on their wrist or on the chair or something like that, but not something that's so distracting.
So if it's something that really helps people, I want people to find a way to be successful in the classroom.
So I think we should try to find ways to accommodate them, but we have to balance that.
So it sounds like fidgeting can be helpful for kids when they're bored or anxious.
That's really cool.
I was wondering, though would they also fidget less if we help them deal with what's making them bored or anxious?
And is that more important to get to the underlying problem?
Or is it okay to use fidgets in the long term?
That is getting at something really important.
I do think what really needs to be done is, yeah, let's find out why are these kids anxious?
What's making them nervous?
Is maybe what we're asking them to do too hard?
Can we break it down into smaller steps?
Can they start working on a problem, the easier part of it, and then go on to the harder part of it?
So they're not feeling so anxious.
Can we teach them some breathing exercise and stretching?
And do that first because once you learn those tools, you can take that with you anywhere.
And in terms of things and anxiety, I think sometimes people are getting a little confused because I think just because people fidget doesn't mean that the fidgeting with the fidget tool is helping them.
Sometimes they're fidgeting when they're anxious because that's a symptom that they're anxious.
And so that's why you do need to go back to saying okay well, how can we help them feel less anxious?
Do fidget toys help people with ADHD more than they would help someone else?
I think so.
We have a little bit of evidence suggesting that that people with ADHD it tends to help their attention more.
And I think we're learning now that it probably helps their attention more when they're doing a test.
That's Not very hard, but it may be a little boring, kind of repetitive, but we're trying to learn more about that too.
Is there research that does show that fidgets can help us concentrate?
The research on that is still mixed.
And I think what's important to understand is that there are fidget tools or toys, and then there's your natural behavior.
And what we have really strong evidence for at this point is your natural behavior just moving your legs and your hands and so forth.
That seems to have pretty good evidence that it helps you manage your attention and so forth.
When it comes to fidget tools, fidget toys, I think The variety of them is so diverse that we don't know enough about how will those help?
And I personally am concerned that some of them are more distracting than actually helping.
If you're spending so much time concentrating on your fidget rather than doing your work or thinking about other ways of calming your nerves, then I think that there's less evidence for that.
What's your favorite way to fidget?
Probably now in the past few years, I do have a little ball that I use that I squeeze.
But when I was younger, I was just twirling my hair.
I'm not a huge fidgeter, but my brother growing up was a huge fidgeter.
And that's how I got interested in this.
When we were eating dinner, the forks and knives were always clanging at the dinner table.
So that and then watching children in preschool really got me interested in it.
And seeing how sometimes, when it did seem like they were trying to concentrate, that they were moving more.
But that was moving themselves physically rather than actually having a toy or something like that.
Are there rules to help guide our behavior when we start to fidget?
I think some of it is really common sense.
And if you're spending so much time concentrating on your fidgets, then what's happening around you or listening to what your teacher is saying, or concentrating on your homework then that's the time where you need to put your fidget away, because sometimes what you can do is you can interact with your fidget in the beginning and then just put it off to the side.
And every once in a while, maybe you can touch it or get up and stretch.
And I think it's really important to try to think of other ways to get movement in.
So maybe that is taking that stretch break.
Maybe it's also chewing on something.
So maybe you have some carrots or some raisins, some kind of healthy snack, because we're starting to learn that also moving your mouth can be helpful.
And then your hands are free.
So if your hands are tied up by touching a fidget, you're not able to type as well you're not able to write.
So don't let the fidget overtake your life.
Use it constructively to help you, but don't let it become more than what you're supposed to actually be working on.
It's really good advice.
Thanks for answering our questions, Dr. Julie.
Oh, thank you so much.
These were great.
And I hope my answers have been helpful to you.
Fidgeting is very common.
Lots of people fidget from kids to grownups.
There are lots of ways to fidget.
You can fidget with your body or with things around you.
Scientists aren't sure why we fidget, but one idea is that fidgeting is a form of self-regulation.
That means it's something we do to control how we feel.
Fidgeting can help you focus, but it can also distract others.
So be mindful of your fidgeting.
We'll see you next time.
Original theme music by Mark Sanchez.
Special thanks to Heidi Shin Wesley Wong and Mr Fan for letting Penelope take the day off of school.
We also had production help from Rosie DuPont and Anna Wegel.
And we want to thank our friends at Code of the North, especially Ken Taborski, for all of their help with our website.
There are lots of ways to support the show.
Subscribe to Brains On Universe on YouTube, where you can watch animated versions of some of your favorite episodes.
Or head to brainson.org.
While you're there, you can send us mystery sounds, drawings, and questions.
All right, Penelope, you ready to hear that mystery sound again?
Yes.
All right here it is think well, still kind of the same ones from before.
But i was also thinking like maybe a pinball machine oh, a pinball machine and someone crunching.
Yeah nice, i'm sticking with my baby alligator answer, because that's what it sounds like to me.
You ready for the answer?
All right, here it is.
Hi, my name is August and I'm from Indianapolis, and that was the sound of me getting a gumball from my gumball machine.
Oh, so the vending machine was actually closer.
Yeah, you were close.
Like honestly, throughout that whole thing you were saying like vending machine putting a coin in.
Correct.
You said twisting something metal.
Correct.
You said pinball, which is almost like gumball.
So I think I'm giving us partial credit.
I mean, I'm giving you partial credit.
I'm giving me no credit because no baby alligators were involved.
Now it's time for the Brain's Honor Roll.
These are the incredible kids who keep the show going with their questions ideas, mystery sounds, drawings and high fives.
Josiah from Walkerton, Ontario.
Anne from Auckland, New Zealand.
Matthew from Virginia, Saul from Chevy Chase, Maryland.
Thank you and I'll see you next time.
Thank you.
Thank you.
We'll see you next time.
Jade from Waianae, Hawaii.
Fiona from Syracuse, New York.
Isabel from Sydney, Australia.
Umar from Kuala Lumpur.
Milo from Minneapolis.
And Alder from Oregon City.
We'll be back next week with an episode all about electric cars.
So I've got a lot of shush in my whoosh.
Thanks for listening.
