I love being able to talk about brands that I use on my podcasts and I've personally
been using this one for over five years.
Our sponsor, Nature's Way Alive Women's Multivitamin Gummies, are specifically formulated
for women.
They contain 16 vitamins and minerals, including the full B vitamin complex to help convert
food into fuel and have the added benefit of supporting healthy hair, skin and nails.
With just two delicious gummies, Nature's Way Alive Women's Multivitamin Gummies are
an easy way to feel like you're best self every day.
To learn more, visit nature's way.com slash Gemma 10 and use code Gemma 10 at Checkout
for 10% off any Alive Women's Multivitamins, terms and conditions apply valid through June
30th.
Sound is personal, intimate and emotive.
Just like this podcast.
We are AudioStack.ai.
We combine AI writing.
The best synthetic voices like ours.
With production, like music and mastering.
And deliver them to be heard, be it ads, podcasts or VOs for video.
Just like this ad you're listening to right now.
However, we have millions of spots just like this on podcasts.
And rather than hearing from us, we want to hear from you.
How would you utilize AI audio?
For free.
Do you work with businesses, products, events or causes that could benefit from free promotion
on podcasts in the coming month?
Simply go to audiostack.ai-forward-slash-contest.
Give us some details of what you would say.
And you could replace this spot and be heard by millions.
You will also find terms and conditions at audiostack.ai-forward-slash-contest.
Nearly half of our youth are struggling with their mental health.
But California is building a new workforce of certified wellness coaches to help them
lead happier, healthier lives.
Certified wellness coaches work with children and youth to build vital skills to improve
their mental health and wellbeing.
A coach can help make a difference.
It's time to spread the wellness.
Learn more at cawellnesscoach.org, supported by the California Department of Healthcare
Access and Information.
Learn more at cawellnesscoach.org.
Shaving is honestly such a hassle, but sometimes it just has to be done.
Actually, what if I told you about an alternative one that was quick, easy and left you some
smelling surprisingly good?
Nair's new line of sensational hair removal, shower and body creams gets the job done and
smells delicious.
My friends were all over for dinner the other day and I had this bottle of their oat milk
and vanilla body cream.
Of course we had to try it out and we all agreed.
The results were pretty spectacular after only three minutes of application and actually
smelled delicious like vanilla goodness.
Smell for yourself, try the reformulated in-air body and shower creams available at retailers
nationwide and online.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s.
The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our
20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show, welcome back to the podcast, new listeners,
old listeners, wherever you are in the world.
It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we explore the psychology of our
20s.
Of course it is guest month, December month and we have an amazing guest, a homegrown Aussie
guest here with us today.
You may know her from her incredible podcast, Do You Fuck Mind?
Alexis Furnes.
How are you doing?
I'm so excited to be here.
It was like two worlds colliding.
It is two worlds colliding.
It is so good.
It was like this had to happen right?
I know.
I don't know how we never spoken before.
How?
And we've just been sitting here now for like, I don't know how long just like we can't
stop talking.
Literally before we started recording we were like having a discussion around zombie apocalypse
season.
I don't know how do we even get to that?
The fire safety hazards and dead bolts on doors.
Yeah.
Not really relevant to psychology or self-care but nonetheless was fulfilled.
It was.
I know.
We've come up with some ideas to message our landlords.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
So I think it's something that I don't even think I said this to you but when I was in
university I was I was a Do You Fuck Mind stand.
Really amazing.
I still listen to it now obviously but I remember going through like my first huge break up
when I was 19, 18 years old and listening to your episodes on these like nature walks
through camera.
Oh my God.
I love that being like, you'll meet me.
Yeah.
That is the best.
I love that.
I love that.
It's a full circle moment for me.
Yeah.
This is amazing and I feel like, I don't know, I feel like most of the people that were
like the OGs who have like shared the podcast and listened to it, it's they found me at
a time of like deepest heartbreak which is really, really cool and then they've like
gone on that journey of like self discovery and you know, learning, I feel like you learn
so much about yourself and your heartbroken.
It's like the biggest learning curve.
It's pretty.
And now I feel like people like I've never been heartbroken.
I'm like I'm a little bit sorry for you because it's such, I don't know, it's such a
rich experience.
I used to say like heartbreak is sacred.
Isn't it?
Because it's exactly as you said people, I think enter into a lot of like personal development
and self growth through heartbreak and then they're suddenly like a work into this whole
big spectrum of other things that are going to improve their life.
But they wouldn't have accessed if that like loser hadn't cheated on them or like,
so you need to go through that pain, you need to go through something just not being
fair and how do you deal with that?
Like how do you, I think when before you've experienced that you've never experienced
truly an unfair situation where there's no sense that can be made from it?
Like how do you move forward from something that can't be fixed and can't be made sense
off?
And that's where you learn so much about like your resilience and how you make peace
with something just yourself and not fun closure and not, you know, like I've got the
closure thing I was talking to a friend of mine the other day and she was like how am I
meant to move on when I can't stop thinking about this person?
Oh yeah.
And I was like you need to provide your own emotional closure in this moment.
100%.
I don't know.
So we're not even talking about heartbreak.
We may as well be like, I love that this we just get straight into the head.
It's like immediately like what are we here for?
Inspiration.
But what we are really here to talk about today is a topic that I think is so important
during this season of the year.
Dealing with difficult family members, complex family dynamics, I don't love the word
toxic but I do think it applies here.
It does to certain, to certain families it definitely would because I feel like what
we were discussing before with some families there's a lot of, there's a lot of issues but
it's not necessarily toxic.
It's just clashing of the minds versus situations where it's really genuinely unhealthy and someone's
genuinely out to get you kind of thing, you know.
Yeah, well that was that was something I was really interested in asking you about is like
I think we use the term like toxic to describe a whole different pattern of behaviours.
What are some of the key ones that you think are most typical of those like yeah in like
complex family dynamics like what are some of the behaviours that we should be looking
out for to identify that like maybe this relationship although it's family is actually
not that healthy.
Yeah, so I guess like you've got to like pull apart like what is, because I always say
like when you're trying to form new relationships like the biggest thing that you can do is just
like number one seek to understand you don't have to agree but try and see where someone's
coming from because sometimes you can look at it from a place off oh wow a big one that
I get is women who don't get along with their sister-in-laws and I think a lot of that stems
from you've taken my brother away from me I'm getting defensive.
So if you can understand it from that perspective you're like can I crack this person and get
them to like me because they're just feeling a little bit insecure right now they're feeling
like this person's been taken away from them if I can approach it in a clever way I can
turn this around not that it's on your shoulders but you could potentially by you know opening
up to them and being vulnerable to that person and then they're like oh you're human just
like me you're not this big scary girlfriend that's swept in and taken my brother who's
my best friend you're actually a feeling human and then they can open up versus you genuinely
feeling attacked because the family might not agree with you know the fact that it's a
big one is it's a gay relationship or it's a divide in beliefs or they don't like your
lifestyle so they're just like not we don't accept you that's it and to try and all parents
about a huge one is where mothers don't want to let go of their sons sometimes daughters
as well but if I find a really common one is moms like digging their heels in being like
it's my baby my and they want to like coddle their adult son and it's like like you yeah
and I've got all heaps of listeners but friends as well who really struggle with that one
and trying to have a decent relationship with the mother-in-law is a huge one and then when
it comes to like Christmas holiday season they want their kids adult kids with them all the
time they want nothing to have changed so it's I guess it's really difficult to navigate
this relationship when they're the ones that have to like they've got their kids they've
got it except that their kids are growing up and the dynamic is going to change and a lot
of families can't accept that they can't accept change whereas you're the one who's like
well I'm just growing into this world I'm becoming an adult I'm experiencing all these new
things why am I being attacked what have I done wrong I'm listening to that being like
applying that to so many situations in my own life and I'm like wow that is actually quite
universal yeah that is so universal you made such a good point there I think the reason why a lot
of us in our 20s in particular start to experience this friction for the first time is because we are
it is the first kind of period or chapter in our life in which we are rejecting the label of child
and that's just not like personally that's like saying almost to our families I'm I'm not a kid
anymore like your relationship to me might be that I'm your child but I'm also an adult who is
trying to set up their own life who has boundaries around how I want to be treated now yeah and is
and I think it's also natural to go through a period where you detach from your family and then
you come back the other one that I think is really interesting which comes up all the time during
this period is differing political beliefs and I find this in my own family quite a bit my parents
are not with my parents per se but with like my extended family where just because you're related
doesn't mean you're going to agree on everything what's something to your advice from that have
you seen that like in your friendship group as well definitely definitely and when it comes to
political this is it like a really good topic because I feel like when it comes to difference
in politics one thing that I always raise with my family my in-laws with anyone who might
differ in their but in their political beliefs friends is that I say there's a difference between
a debate I love a debate versus a argument and I don't think it's the healthiest thing to become
emotionally attached to a political party you should be able to criticize the party that you
are voting for that's what makes an informed decision so when I see people get really emotional
and angry about a political thing it's like are you forming your identity around this attachment
or are you able to be like this is the right party for this time to run this country you know so
you should be able to flick between political parties you shouldn't make your identity about a party
and if you happen to align with a party for your whole life fun that's great but it's this idea
if I think people feel when you attack the political party you're attacking me now I'm going to
get angry now I'm going to get defensive but it's like I'm not I'm just raising something have you
thought about it in this way have you looked at it in that way and I always say to people I like to
debate but if you're going to start character assassinating me then I can't have this conversation
but I'd love to discuss I'd love I don't have to change your mind you don't have to change mind
but I like I like seeing how other people think yeah and teaching me why they think that way
as long as they open to hearing the same back it's like coming out from approach of like openness
and learning I always I was saying this to someone the other day you sometimes get into these
discussions with people and you can see it in their eyes that they are looking for an argument
like you know what I'm talking about it's like this style where it's like you can see that something
has lit up in them where you can tell in those moments that what you're talking about for you
might be a discussion for them as a projection of their identity big time and those are the
topics that you need to just I think step away from step away from yeah definitely because and
the people that and you can figure this out really really quickly when you speak to someone
and you can tell that they're just thinking of the next thing they're going to say instead of
listening to what you're actually saying and responding accordingly so it's like I know you're
just brewing up your next argument you're not listening to me so I think sometimes you also have to
just pick your battles with certain people you're not going to be able to have a healthy debate
with everybody and sometimes I think while you are in your right to say what you want to say
sometimes I think for your own peace of mind just don't just get your own sake you know just
suffer sometimes you cause yourself all this suffering because you're like but you know I can
have these conversations with these people but they're different people you know you've got to
manage your expectations around people especially with family it's like I think if yeah it's hard
because I think when we're talking about dealing with difficult family members right like we have
a few categories here yeah we have as you said like the relationships where there was friction
caused by change where you know the sun has grown up and gotten a girlfriend and the mother is like
really struggling to deal with that I think that's like environmental I think part of that is also
we can put in like political beliefs as well there's like a there is again a friction in that
sense of like there is a disagreement then you have like genuine clinically severe behaviors
like narcissism like compulsive liars like even abuse or controlling behaviors yeah which
we'll talk about more in a second and then I think you have this other side which is
parents who are really or family members who are really trying their best
but a dealing with something that is making it so your relationship is afraid so I got this
question the other day from someone that was talking about how her mother is experiencing a really
bad episode of depression and that is by nature creating difficulties in their relationship
creating a difficult dynamic where her mother is probably not isn't really acting in a way that I
think is how we would say a mother yeah yeah acting because of what's going on how do you think we
deal with those different categories of people like the the friction the like the clinical severe
and then just the people who are perhaps not in a great place yeah so with people that are not in
a great place I would say whether it could be depression or like there's so many different you know
yeah but always try and remind yourself that that person is not the depression that person is not
the xyz you know they are two separate things so sometimes someone might treat you in a certain way
a push you away or or create conflict within the relationship because they're going through this
internal suffering and it impacts the relationship and it's you know ideally you want to find a way
so the relationship doesn't break down you want to find a way of being like every time I have
this interaction I have to be at the forefront of my mind has to be they are not the depression and
there are two separate things and the depression will get in the way and that's not their intention
so how do you find a way to maintain your boundaries for your own mental health but also have
patience and understanding in that space and sometimes you might need to pull away just a little
bit and be there for them but say you know like I can't spend 10 hours with my mom now because
it's I leave and I'm in a state but maybe I can find different ways of really being there for her
that's just going to have to be different sometimes your relationships will have to evolve in a
different way so you feel like you're still there for them but you also have to you know protect
yourself as well so you're not also going to be spiraling as well um I think that
all relationships are always evolving and to think and this is where a lot of problems with
relationships start with parents the dynamic to find parents and children is that you always have
to look at relationships as evolving if you accuse someone of you've changed it's like well that's
inevitable of course they've changed everyone's going to change yeah and when I look at my relationship
with my partner I know that we're going to go through many relationships within this one relationship
who will be when we're 40 is not who we were when we met and it's your job to try your best to
evolve together you know but to think I never changed you change and this is why the marriage
broke down which happens all the time or with parents and kids it's like well isn't that what we're
supposed to do aren't we supposed to evolve and change and that can happen for the worst as well you
know with with someone getting sick someone having you know some disorder you've got to
find a way to come into that next phase of the relationship and it will be different yeah that's
actually it's really hard when that happens I think because we all like to talk about unconditional
love and unconditional love sounds brilliant and I do think it's possible but I think especially as
you begin to realize that your parents are human too we see them as being on this like pedestal
for a lot of our lives for so long yeah for so long and I think that all of us have a moment and I'm
sure you have one yeah where you were like oh my parent is like my my mom my dad is this is their
first time being alive as well like they are figuring all of this out at the same time as me they're
just a little bit further along so true and it's so I think that's difficult when you see them go
through hard periods and maybe it's like hard periods in your parents marriage maybe it's like
how your relationship with your parents going to adapt post-diverse like exactly and seeing them
suffer and seeing them overcome things and being like wow you were this this untouchable thing
when I was a kid who knew everything and now I'm realizing that you know I'm soon going to be the
age that you were at you know and you just start having it's like wow how are you parenting and
I'm that age now and how you know it's just it blows your mind to realize you didn't have it all
figured out yeah when I was a kid and maybe giving them that if it is like the right decision for you
giving them that level of like not just forgiveness but like that that space to make mistakes
of course as much as you are still like I think viewing it's not that you need to view your parents
as a friend because I think that changes the dynamic it does it does it can be quite difficult
but viewing them as just as fallible just as like flawed as you are in the same way that you would
want other people to accept your mistakes you should be willing to accept a degree of their mistakes
of course yeah I think that's really important there are some instances though where that is not
possible exactly yeah and you mentioned narcissists yeah and narcissistic parents or in laws is like
a really difficult way to have a great person on this by the way specific episode on that because I
did want a narcissist and then I had all these people being like what about what about my mom what
about my dad and so I thought I kept all this absolutely I put it in the description because you
hear a lot about narcissists in relationships and normally you'll hear it being the man who's the
narcissist and the woman who's dating it but then when you hear about because you can have just
as many female as male it's hard to put a number on it because a lot of people who are narcissists
aren't going in getting diagnosed as narcissists so it's probably not probably it's definitely
extremely underdiagnosed but that's when you see it's like oh this is across all genders you know
it doesn't matter you could narcissistic parents are a huge one and yeah and the the weird thing is
that often the child to say you're dating someone and their parents are clearly narcissists often
the person you're dating doesn't realize that they're just like oh they're just difficult oh
they make all these excuses similar to what we were just talking about before where your parents
are these you you want them to be perfect they're your parents you are them you know you're
you're that's why like it hurts to see your parent criticize the other parent because you're
criticizing half of me you know it's really that's why children suffer in divorce if it's a
horrible divorce because they feel torn you know and so when you when you're trying to let your
partner realize without being aggressive how do you get your partner to really identify that their
parents are narcissistic sometimes they see it sometimes they don't and when they don't see it
it's really hard to navigate that so I always say don't straight up say to someone your parents
are narcissists your mother is a narcissist you I always start with always put the question back
on them like does this behavior happen all the time when you know just start getting them to do
some self-discovery when was the first time they did something like that or when was the first
time they put you in that position and did they do that with all your siblings and you just start
like just questions and then they were like oh wow oh yeah right that's not and then they
figure it out for themselves you know you just got to get de-gunned at the surface and then it's
then you create an environment where it's comfortable for them to talk about it and never ever
character assassinate your partner's parents no matter how annoyed you are because again you're
insulting them you know we're like obviously you're not meaning to but that's how they
perceive it as it's like the whole thing of like oh I'm allowed to talk shit about this person but
the moment you do it's not okay you know like you know when like you'll break up with someone
and then you're allowed to say everything under the sun about that person but then someone insults
you're like oh what what what are you like I love them so what does that say about me yeah yeah
I what do you do what are you judging my my judgment or my choices and you know that they're right
it's same thing with siblings you know they're right yes it's like I'm allowed to say whatever I
want about my sisters but the exact minute like they come to me again one of their friends has said
something oh my god I'm like I'm not fucking aren't you damn like I'm sorry but then you can say
you know it's kind of that dynamic so I think definitely tread carefully but I think that if you
can set up a really comfortable open space to have a conversation about the behaviors of your
parents always say like turn it into speaking about the behavior and not them as a person this
behavior is unhealthy this behavior is unacceptable I'm going to put a boundary against this
interaction or this situation so it doesn't happen again and then you're not saying they're an
asshole they're an idiot they're fucked in the head you know because if you start saying stuff
like that then that's when it comes across as you like genuinely even if you do it makes it look
like you hate their parents and it's how do I navigate this carefully because if your partner
didn't have a good enough relationship with their parents that wouldn't be an issue because the only
reason you say you're in laws is because your partner has a good relationship with their in laws you
know so the difficulty in navigating it is when your partner has that relationship and you've got
a slot in there somehow it's also really interesting because it kind of shows this weird distinction
right not so much a distinction but as someone of an innate competition as we get older between
the family we grew up with and the family that we're going on to create and I think that sometimes
it's very easy for people to be like well this is my family now I need to prioritize my partner
and our future together but that's also a really hard distinction for some people to make there is
still that innate loyalty to the people that have raised them and maybe you are someone who
is recognizing for yourself that your own parents are like that yeah how do you go about I guess
or it might not even be narcissism it might be that in the past things were not as healthy as they
are now they might still be unhealthy toxic whatever label you want to give it how do you go about
having those difficult conversations once you have identified and done some of that exploration
and realized that this person although you may love them is perhaps not a good figure in your
life right now yeah that's really hard as we all know like I think it's really hard to bring up to
somebody that they to criticize their parenting because for a parent their biggest job their biggest
accomplishment is raising a human more than one human you know and to go in and criticize them
it's so hard to do to do it like delicately and even if you do it in the most delicate way they're
not going to take it in the best way possible but I do still think obviously it's important to do so
and when setting a boundary when saying something the best way to start is you say I know longer
feel comfortable with this or you make it about you every time I set a boundary I make sure that
it's about me because if I say you do this and you do that and you you you you then then it feels
like it's an attack and it feels like I'm trying to control how they're behaving but if I say
listen next time the situation arises I don't want to be here if you're going to start yelling at me
or I don't want to you know you try and just make it a bit more about I'm going to draw a line here
I've got a friend of mine and she had a really unhealthy relationship with her partner's mum
and I just said to her you're you're going over every Sunday and you're spending like 10 hours
on eight hours and just so unpleasant the environment yeah I can imagine and then I said firstly
why don't you draw a line and say I don't have to go every Sunday for starters I don't I'm my own
person I'm an adult and when I do go I can either come a little bit later or I can leave a bit
earlier and then that just shows a like it's it shows a level of independence and it's like an
unsaid rule of like I can control myself here like I want to come and say you but I'm not pandering
to everything that you want you know just because my partner wants to be here for 10 hours I don't
have to and it's not about being rude you've come in you give them the time of day you have the
conversation you're putting in the effort but then you're saying okay so good to see you guys say
yeah but yeah just like remove yourself from there yeah no question about it like no I will not
say for coffee because sometimes the hard thing is that sometimes you'll have the best idea for
the best conversation and you say and it's just not going to be taken in the right way and they're
just going to feel attacked sometimes a conversation cannot be had and the only thing you can do is okay
given what I've got like given what's in front of me I have to work with what I've got and the best
way to work with what I've got is to limit the interaction so when I'm there I'll just give it my all
but it's small doses and then you find I can actually handle these people in small doses like a
lot of people they're like oh I love my in-laws because I live three hours flying by the way you know
so we go there I just get my time I do my best we don't like we clash but it's fine and then I leave
if they were my neighbors I'd hate them yeah so it's that kind of so how can you how can you
navigate that if you live in the same city just like bring it back a little bit feel like you're
a little bit more in control of yourself and I think that will really help you feel like
you know not so much anxiety when you then have to go spend time with potential in-laws or even
your own parents who might be causing you so much stress and then but then you've got like the
really unhealthy relationships and I always say like just because you are tied together by blood
no one has a ticket into your life for free no one's got this golden ticket into your life
people have to earn their place in your life just like you have to earn your place in someone
else's life you can't go around disrespecting someone you definitely and expect for the your seat
to still be there so if it means cutting out someone because they treat you like shit cut the
person out you know and I think that there's some steps I totally agree with that as well I think
there are some steps to take beforehand the one that you just the example that you just gave of
like re-establishing your independence as an individual that goes for your in-laws and then also
for your own parents even for like sibling relationships that are quite draining or codependent or
any form of family relationship maintaining a sense of independence when that person is trying
to take more from you than you're willing to give us a huge one but I do think there is something
to be said about setting boundaries and seeing how people respond sometimes the outcome of a boundary
is not that their behavior changes changes but that you see that they're incapable of doing it
yeah that is something that I've started to realize where it's like I think we often talk about
all you need to say to boundary and we are like oh and then immediately assume that that person
is going to meet that boundary once it's been spoken into existence that's right and they don't
a lot of time and that is actually just as it might be disappointing but it's just as valuable to
you to teach you about their behavior it is and sometimes setting a boundary doesn't mean that it's
going to be respected but you've vocalized where your limit is and now it's not this arbitrary thing
it's like I've now told you where that limit is whether you respect it or not it's up to me how to
respond to you respecting but I always say a boundary is not a boundary unless there are consequences
you know you can't say this is my boundary and have it stomped all over every time it's not a
boundary it's your I your wish it was your boundary but unless there is a consequence for that boundary
being crossed it's not a boundary you look at such a good point yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
because I think about this like in relation to a family member of mine who has a real problem
with making comments about people's appearances good time which I think is a big one oh my god
I get it like different generation like this I totally understand that that's they think that's fine
but I don't understand it anymore because I think that we have been very clear with them my siblings
have also been like involved in this and then like no you cannot make those comments anymore and
when you said a boundary is not a boundary without consequences we were for years being like
please don't say that please don't say that I'm uncomfortable with you saying that it was only when
we were like if you say that we won't be coming here anymore exactly that they were like oh or like
okay um I really didn't enjoy that I'm leaving now that they exactly you stand up and leave
that's a huge statement of like it's that uncomfortable for me you've made this someone pleasant
yeah I'd rather not be here literally and that's when it's like oh wow this is that's when they
really unfortunately it has to get to that point but that's when they realize oh my god the
fact that they're willing to leave yeah that's really not okay yeah it really and I think it was
and it was uncomfortable it was uncomfortable being in those moments but it was also uncomfortable
walking away from them of course because I think that that's the other thing people the reason
that we cannot always set boundaries that work is because we think that setting your boundary is
just a matter of speed of just like you said I'm just saying setting an intention for how we
want to be treated rather than actually instigating it so what are some tips for being like
firstly identifying a boundary and secondly really sticking to it sticking to it and enforcing it
as well so there's two because you can look at it in I mean you can call it a boundary but in your
head you can say look I could request that someone speak to me a certain way I'd know you know
but ultimately I've just decided that no matter how they treat me I'm never walking away
but I could just request it that's one thing and that's where you have zero expectations of the
response and you just be like alright whatever comes I'm just going to accept the second one is
the boundary where you're like okay only set a boundary when you know what it looks like once it's
crossed so when you say I'm setting this boundary what now happens if they cross that boundary what
am I going to do because I've now put an expectation a boundary has an expectation a request
hopefully doesn't like you would like them to to start treating you nicely but also you're like who
do you please and their answer could be no and you're like okay sick.
Well great right now.
Yeah, where is the boundary you're like alright if I'm going to set this boundary I have to be
willing to know what it looks like if they cross it and know exactly what my actions will be make
a game plan for yourself don't because then if you go and say this is my boundary and then they
cross it then you're like oh and you choke up and then the pressure is on yourself and you feel
terrible and then you feel like you've been undermined yes once again you're like oh it just hurts
the relationship.
It hurts and then your confidence is shot and you're like well now my word means nothing because now
if I try and set another boundary they didn't respect that one they're not going to respect this one
so before you go in with the boundary give yourself a bit of a bet talk and be like okay if I'm
going to set this boundary what happens when they cross it what will my actions be I think the
best one is to remove yourself from the situation and don't make it this universal like I'm never
coming back no just say I'm like used like you did it's something simple as when this happens I'm
not going to be in this space so if you say it in the first minute of me arriving I leave if you
say it after an hour I leave I just not going to be here if you're going to talk to me like that
and you can also say and you'll realize that the more you do it the less I'm going to want to
prioritize hanging out with you versus hanging out with another invitation that I might have had
and you know people whether you like it or not people do have a hierarchy of who they want to
spend time with and it's the ones that they feel the most comfortable in themselves around and
they're the people you put at the top of that list no matter how close they are or not to you as
far as blood goes so I think if you can if you feel comfortable enough to be like okay if this
happens I'm walking away yeah then set that boundary and you don't even have to say it like you
don't even have to be like I have to know so I think about this in terms of a story another friend of
mine said a big one is comments about not just appearance but comments about any kind of choice
that you're making your lifestyle yeah or even things that like your sexuality things that you
don't have a choice around where it's like what are you trying to do here like trying to change my
mind like yeah that's ridiculous like I think that's a big one the other one is people who are
compulsive liars or controlling so people who are like can you do this now or like who are yeah
I think that's a huge one when they're like oh if you're in my house you have to do x y and z
yes controlling yeah and I find that controlling and compulsive liars I think both of those things
will fall under the category of I think when people can't control themselves they're
control everyone else around them yeah so the less control you have over who you are and your
circumstances you try and control everyone you look at those relationships where they're so controlling
there's people are not happy with the life they've created for themselves so they're like given
that I feel like I'm out of control in my circumstances you I'm going to control you and feel like I'm
empowered yeah you know and the same goes for that you know like getting people to do things for them
you know this has to be done you've come into my space and now you've got to do this it's all
about a lack of control in their own life and a lack of like satisfaction as well I feel that's so
sad it's like displacement right like yeah classic Freudian you know you kind of feel so bad you're
like oh sorry yeah and that's the thing right if they're acting in that way you can just walk
away without even being like I'm leaving now like and text them later just be like okay my absence
is a is a message here and hopefully they pick up on it if you don't have the confidence to
actually say that and I think yeah yeah that's a huge one what you just said with the confidence
because I think a lot of people think on top of the fact that I've got to do this action I
then have to say something in a lot of people they've not lived a life where they've just
confidently said things whenever they thought it and it's very difficult for a confident person
it's like I'll just say it it's not like that for a lot of people what do you mean you want me to
stand up to my parents for the first time ever you know it's daunting so like you said you
you don't have to say something you can just leave and I always say a text message a letter
handwritten letter in the mail but whatever to get your point across where your cool common
collected yes is the best way to do it if you can do it in person great but most people can't
because they're like yeah like it's anxiety it's so stressful you've got all these good things
to say the moment you get home what am I saying all these things yeah you know just remove yourself
cool like calm down write everything you need to say and then read it later not send it straight
away yeah and then they're like oh edit that a little bit and then send it you know that might be
a way the other thing that you said there where I was like that is another really good reason to do
that is because in the moment like you said you are probably going to be experiencing a great
deal of anxiety this is one of the first times you've ever been like to a family member hey not
acceptable sometimes people can be really reactive to that yeah and that is going to escalate to
the point where you are really reactive to how they've responded and people get really worked up
you're going to feel like your sense of control over the situation your ability to speak up for
yourself is slipping yeah because this person is kind of using emotional warfare at that point
totally point you know intentionally unintentionally yeah and like anger is a secondary emotion to an
an initial underlying emotion so when someone gets angry if you're also angry with game over as
far as where you can go from there because if two people are angry they're actually using anger to
try and communicate the fact that they feel abandoned that they feel rejected that they feel
insecure that they feel attacked you know but but it's anger so yeah it's aggressive and so you
put your wall up and respond with aggression you get nowhere and that's where you go through this
like standoff and you don't talk for days it's just so when someone gets angry I always say like
there's no talking to someone who's angry and if you have yet to slip into anger leave just
remove yourself yeah and I'd be like calm down because that will just stir someone even more just
say I'd rather talk about this yeah and and and to take ownership off it even if you're not blowing up
I always advise you say something like let's talk about this when we both
calmed down you know so you make it like we are heated let's just not just do yeah yeah yeah
because I'm heated in my head right now yeah and so I think yeah never respond to anger it's just
not worth it and and and and and as you would know you know you when people are fired up it's harder
to be logic to make a logical argument or a statement you're emotional you're it's it's it's
all reactive you're not thinking proactively you're not reasoning so that's why it would benefit
them to walk off and cool off for a bit and think about okay what am I actually feeling you know
especially if you're a sensitive person as well yeah that's if you're someone else's emotions
if you're an empath like you're gonna pick up on those you know there's no controlling that one
someone has like gotten to the point where they can't manage their emotions yeah you are going
to pick up on that you're going to absorb that big time big time and then and it's paid hurts
so you're trying to protect yourself and it's just a disaster so I say yeah definitely step
away like you like you said you don't have to say anything in the moment you don't have to
do try and be this really confident person if you haven't before you don't have to you can just
remove simmer down and then communicate in the way that feels best you know great advice
the last thing that I really want to focus on because I get a lot of questions about this and I
know that it's not something that everyone is thinking about but for those that are when do
you think it is time to go no contact with a family member I think I mean by default you're just
always going to give your family members like lots of chances so you already have a track record
in place of how many chances you've given this person then you know because and people will try
to speak nicely they'll try screaming they'll try you know hey if we start doing that that you've
probably already tried so many different ways you know gifts you tried doing it their way
yeah you tried doing it your way you've just tried everything normally the when you're ready to be
like I've got to walk away you've you've exhausted a lot of options and I think that
when it's time to pull the plug on a relationship you can you can always leave the door open in the
sense of these have been all my problems with this relationship and again write it down if you
prefer do it in a letter whatever you again if whatever it takes to get your point across do that
don't feel the pressure if it has to be in person it doesn't I've when I wanted to have a talk
with my ex when we just broke up and I'm like can we please meet up I wrote notes down and read
it out because you don't want to forget anything because I'm like I know that if I just out there so
if it takes that do that yeah but it's going to be something where you can say these have been the
issues this is what I've requested for change and this is what's not happened I've tried doing it
this way I've tried doing it that way it's just not happened I'm not going to try and change
you anymore you can't change someone you can't change the behavior so then that's when
if they don't and you don't have to say I'm leaving I'm cutting out of my life you don't have to
say it but you say that this has not been you know and you just the balls now in their court
they're not going to respond positively obviously because they haven't in the past but at least you've
put it there and then you that's it you go no contact I always say because some people hate the
finality of it they hate that it's this final thing so that's why people struggle to to
pull the plug on the relationship but I always say if you want a relationship there's I've given
you exactly what I need there's the formula if you came back and just catered to these basic needs
I would genuinely be open yeah to trying again but as it stands no I'm done yeah and you've shown
time and time again that you can't change so I'm not so to make people feel more open to the idea
you're not saying I'm cutting you out forever it's done good never again no matter what because that's
so like I said people go through so many evolutions in their life you know I've seen people make crazy
adjustments I've seen a mum kick her son out because he was gay and she's like I can't accept it
I can't accept it to within two years posting all his drag photos on her Facebook being like so
proud oh my god how beautiful the change that people can make because she kicked him out and he
went no contact and she's like I've literally lost my son yeah completely my decision that was my
fault I was my fault yeah so not not to get your hopes up thinking oh my god this is what's
gonna cause the change absolutely have zero expectations because you've seen the track record but
just say look I'm done I'm actually done with this relationship as it stands I'm done forever
if you want to create a new one I definitely be open to that if you want to create a new one yeah
I actually really it's like you're not trying to repair the old relationship it's done it's finished
it's finished yeah it's like you've reached here the limits I'm walking away but yeah like I'm
always people innately want to connect they want you know so you're likely to if they would have
come in five years time two years time and say I fucked up I'm willing I want to give it a
shot I know exactly what it is that you need you've you've explained it to me and I'm gonna try
you're gonna likely be like yeah I want to yeah you know jeez I actually loved I that was quite
profound for me listening to that being like oh good yeah thank you being like wow that's
that's such a good point like I do think that people I hate to say people are good but I think
it's easier for people to make the right decisions by you when you show them how you you deserve
to be treated yeah and I know it feels like such a burden sometimes and it is really hard to be like
I wish I had family members where I didn't have to do this where I didn't have to give them like
a guidebook it's sad for a lot of people on human empathy yeah yeah I know like that's so
difficult but it's also one of those things where you get to decide at this moment whether that
burden is worth it or whether you don't want to take it on and that is like only a decision
that you can make like you I really think that quite deeply like you really have to make that
decision for yourself and it is a pros and cons list that I'm sure is extensive and complex and
nuanced but it does take time and I think that hopefully this episode is like giving you the right
quickly yeah to know how to do that and know how to get to that to that point where you do think
that drastic measures need to be taken and it's it's very it's it is empowering when you do finally
come to a decision and make that decision because a lot of people that are in this really
manipulative relationships have issues with their own relationship with themselves especially if
you were raised in that environment so it's probably really hard to make a call like that and put
yourself first when you've been around that environment for so long and like I always say if someone's
been grown up in this you know beautiful happy family happy it's easy to look and say oh just
like who gives a fuck yeah it's like no you've raised in that environment so for you to even make
that call or to make the change it takes a lot and I think it will actually be your first step into
really building on your relationship with yourself you know it's you you've got to like you teach
people how to treat you I totally believe that I have to teach people how to treat you and if it
means walking away and saying I I cannot do this anymore that's a huge statement but you have to
follow through with it because then you know if you you know it's not to say I've cut you out forever
like we just spoke about but it is saying I cannot do this to myself anymore yeah actually Christmas
such holidays great time to do it missing a big family holiday doesn't mean that you've caught
yourself out of their life but it does send a pretty clear message it's very clean message not
permanent but also very powerful very I think that this is and it's not aggressive it's not aggressive
it's just your absence it's your absence and your absence speaks louder than words sometimes no
responses also response I love being able to talk about brands that I use on the podcast and this
is a brand that I've been personally using for over five years our sponsor natures weight
alive women's multivitamin gummies are specifically formulated for women they contain 16 vitamins
and minerals including the full B vitamin complex to help you convert food into fuel they also have
calcium and vitamin D to support bone health and healthy hair skin and nails and for those of you
who may be watching your sugar intake they now have a zero sugar version made with plant-based
sweetness including stevia extract and monk fruit extract with just two delicious gummies
natures way alive women's multivitamin gummies are an easy way to feel like your best self every day
to learn more visit naturesway.com slash jema and use code jema 10 at checkout for 10% of any
alive women's multivitamins terms and conditions apply valid through June 30th
our first time using something normally forms a lifelong impression even if psychology says
that impression is not always correct for example you may try a new food for the first time
realize you don't like it and you're convinced for the rest of your life to never try again
or the first time shaving or using hair removal cream I think we can all remember that strong
chemical smell of those old formulas well that is about to change. Nair is the number one hair
removal brand and now it has a new and improved formula that actually smells amazing and does a
way with the need to shave or have a rusty razor on hand I was honestly so surprised when I
used these for the first time because I think the last time I used hair removal creams was when I was
probably 18 there was nothing pleasant about that smell but now with scents like orange blossom and
Moroccan organ oil for the new shower creams and cocoa butter oatmeal vanilla or water lily
and aloe vera for their body creams they actually make me enjoy the experience so a story about this
the other day I had three of my closest girlfriends and my boyfriend over for dinner and we had this
bottle we decided we wanted to try it out we wanted to get rid of some hair on our legs we all
used the oatmeal vanilla body cream literally at my dining table we applied it we waited for three
minutes they turned out so smooth even my boyfriend put some on his calf let me tell you that little
spot is still silky smooth a week later he can testify this stuff works and we also agreed
these new formulas are a game changer because not only can you actually get rid of her it actually
smells nice and it removes the hassle of having to shave every few days every few weeks it also
is free of dyes it's free of parabins it's free of sulfates which is a big plus for me and I have
to say again the new spents actually smell really really good you can smell them for yourself try
the reformulated net body and shower creams available at retailers nationwide and online sound
is personal intimate and emotive just like this podcast we are audio stack dot AI we combine AI
writing the best synthetic voices like ours with production like music and mastering
and deliver them to be heard be it ads podcasts or vos for video just like this had your
listening to right now however we have millions of spots just like this on podcasts and rather
than hearing from us we want to hear from you how would you utilize AI audio for free
do you work with businesses products events or causes that could benefit from free promotion
on podcasts in the coming month simply go to audio stack dot AI forward slash contest give us some
details of what you would say and you could replace this spot and be heard by millions you will
also find terms and conditions at audio stack dot AI forward slash contest
nearly half of our youth are struggling with their mental health but California is building
a new workforce of certified wellness coaches to help them lead happier healthier lives
certified wellness coaches work with children and youth to build vital skills to improve their
mental health and well-being a coach can help make a difference so it's time to spread the wellness
learn more at cawellnesscoach.org supported by the California Department of Healthcare Access
and Information thank you so much for coming on i feel like that was such an important
discussion to be having around this time obviously i think i can speak from both of us like
sending a lot of love and strengthen and empathy to you guys and sympathy that you are having to
go through this experience around this time i know it can be hard seeing really happy families
who seem to have no problems every family has their problems i will say that from the bottom of
my heart and you are doing you know alone yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah where can they find you if they
do not know who you are ready firstly ridiculous but where can they find you so the podcast is
called do you fucking mind or like it's spelled do you f asterix asterix asterix asterix asterix
asterix i and jane mind and it's like an orange artwork with your kind and trust me i'll put it in
the description i like this thank you so much for coming on as always if you enjoyed this episode
please feel free to leave a five star review wherever you're listening right now if you have
an episode suggestion something that you we haven't spoken about that you would love to hear
from us please follow me at that psychology podcast and you can send us a DM over there
hope you enjoyed this episode as always we will be back next week with another one have a great weekend
sound is personal intimate and emotive just like this podcast
we are audio stack dot ai we combine ai writing the best synthetic voices like ours
with production like music and mastering and deliver them to be heard be it ads podcasts or
vos for video just like this had your listening to right now however we have millions of spots
just like this on podcasts and rather than hearing from us we want to hear from you how would you
utilize ai audio for free do you work with businesses products events or causes that could benefit
from free promotion on podcasts in the coming month simply go to audio stack dot ai forward slash
contest give us some details of what you would say and you could replace this spot and be heard by
millions you will also find terms and conditions at audio stack dot ai forward slash contest
nearly half of our youth are struggling with their mental health but California is building a new
workforce of certified wellness coaches to help them lead happier healthier lives certified
wellness coaches work with children and youth to build vital skills to improve their mental health
and well being a coach can help make a difference it's time to spread the wellness learn more at
ca wellness coach dot org supported by the California Department of Healthcare Access and Information
learn more at ca wellness coach dot org amazon pharmacy presents painful thoughts
the guy in front of me in the pharmacy line is halfway through an incredibly detailed 17-minute
story about his gout a story likely more painful than the gout itself next time save yourself the
pain and let amazon pharmacy deliver your meds right to your door amazon pharmacy health care just
got less painful i love being able to talk about brands that i use on my podcasts and i've
personally been using this one for over five years our sponsor natures weight alive women's
multi-vitamin gummies are specifically formulated for women they contain 16 vitamins and minerals
including the full b vitamin complex to help convert food into fuel and have the added benefit of
supporting healthy hair skin and nails with just two delicious gummies natures way alive women's
multi-vitamin gummies are an easy way to feel like your best self every day to learn more visit
naturesway dot com slash jema 10 and use code jema 10 at checkout for 10% off any alive women's
multi vitamins terms and conditions apply valid through june 30th
