There's something I'm sure you've noticed.
These days, when you sit down by a table at a restaurant in China and start browsing their menu, the Whitehead will warmly suggest that you can get dessert or fruit juice for free if you agree to check in and write a positive review on the rating platform.
Such gestures of hospitality, besides making us fat, also messes with the reviews and makes it harder for people to relocate the really good restaurants.
Now the rating platforms are in action.
They invite users to play judge and decide whether certain reviews do justice to the services in question, or if not, should be removed.
Hello, I'm Lai Ming, and this is Roundtable.
Today with Fei Fei and Steve Hathley, let's see if these platforms' desperate attempts at self -redemption will actually work.
I call it self -redemption because I believe that the virtue of a rating platform is to provide accurate rating to users so that they can reference the information and decide whether or not they want to enjoy and access certain services.
And it applies to restaurants.
When you have an overabundance of inaccurate but positive reviews about a restaurant, then users cannot simply base on those reviews to decide whether this is a restaurant they would like to visit.
Do you look at the reviews?
Is that one of the things that you look at on purpose when you're choosing a new place to eat or a new place to go?
I mean, I think I'm like 50 % dependent on those reviews.
Like, especially for a new place, I have no idea what to expect.
I would go on these apps and to see at least what kind of food or what kind of services I'm looking for here.
But I don't take the reviews too seriously because I know about the free dessert, positive 5 star positive review constantly that's been suggested.
And also I've heard about some restaurants complaining that they got some bad reviews from their peers.
So the game in the world of review is a very complex game.
It's a complex game.
We've been given the opportunity to write positive reviews for free desserts, and sometimes the waitress would offer to write it for you.
Oh, wow. How kind and convenient for the customer.
All right, so what's going on here exactly then?
Well, it's not now, but about two years ago, two of China's biggest reviewing platforms belonging to the Wang company, Meijuan -Dienping, they launched a review panel called Xiaomi.
And they are sort of having a bunch of, I will say, users on those platforms to form a panel and then they can flag some controversial reviews and then to decide whether this review is legitimate.
The panel members will vote on this disputed reviews.
And if over 50 % support the merchant, the restaurants or other places, the negative review can be removed from the rating.
And if rejected, then the review will stay on those platforms.
Okay, so a restaurant owner sees a negative review.
I think it's not fair.
And submits a complaint or a report to the platform.
Then the platform has a panel or a group of users who look at that individual comment and they decide together whether or not that's a fair comment or not.
If more than 50 % of that panel thinks, okay, that's not fair, then it gets removed from the platform, meaning no one else can see it.
But if it's less than 50%, then it stays there and everybody can see it.
Right. Users who get invited are those who joined, have registered on that platform for over three months and they've verified their identity and they've made purchases in the last 90 days, kind of like what they do on Amazon.
And you must have already bought something from the shopkeeper to qualify to write a review about it.
That's pretty fair, I think.
You are not judging if you've never eaten at that restaurant before.
You're not allowed to judge if you've never eaten at that restaurant before.
Interesting. Okay, well, I guess this is controversial for a few different reasons.
I think it's supported probably for a few different reasons as well.
I think it's important for platforms to have a mechanism whereby they address the inaccurate or unfair reviews that certain restaurants encounter because, well, I know there are restaurants and there are restaurants.
Certain restaurants, they are more resourceful and more competitive.
They can afford to give free dessert and fruit juice to entice the customers to write positive reviews, whereas there are also smaller restaurants, modern restaurants, who don't necessarily have the resources to buy advertising to pop up their ranking and their presence don't necessarily get exposed
on these platforms.
Some people don't necessarily know them, but, however, because of the size of the business, they're small and they are relatively obscure.
One negative review could mean a lot.
It might offset their total rating by a significant margin.
Yeah, and some of those negative reviews are not fair.
There was a really kind of bizarre case where a customer gave a one -star review to a restaurant because the merchant, the seller, didn't add chili pepper.
The customer said, I need some chili pepper.
Please add chili pepper.
And the shop owner didn't add chili pepper.
So the customer said, one star.
Well, that was a milk tea shop.
So, there's a couple of questions.
A milky milk tea shop that doesn't have, yeah, chili pepper, spicy stuff.
Exactly. So the response from the owner was, we don't have chili pepper to add to your milk tea.
So that's an example of one that was thrown out because it's just not.
It's not justifiable, that one -star review.
And also, I think, but I still have that questions about this whole rating system is that I came across to some post online a couple of days ago, a couple of months ago actually, about a very famous restaurant here in Beijing, and they are offering questionable eggs to customers.
Questionable eggs. I saw a lot of people report posting online saying they had to go to the hospital after having eggs at those restaurants.
And they did leave very one -star reviews on these platforms.
But then I thought, you know, something could have could be happening to this restaurant, you know, you know, maybe authority, somebody could report them to the authorities or at least their rating on those platforms start to drop.
But then I realized, you know, nothing really happened.
So I start to have this question mark on this review system about how, you know, legitimate or how useful.
Trustworthy these information can be.
Well, I mean, there's a lot there's there are a lot of cases.
It's not like there's 10 or 20 cases per week.
This is official data from the app.
100 ,000 cases processed monthly and about 50 ,000 merchants have successfully contested unreasonable reviews.
So it seems that leaving reviews here in China is a really common thing for people to do.
First of all, I don't do that.
Now, I say I get a free dessert.
Neither do I. But it seems like we're in the minority.
A lot of people do leave reviews and people pay attention, I guess, because the merchants 50 ,000 successfully contested these unreasonable reviews.
So the point here is that there are a lot of reviews and there are a lot of contested reviews as well.
What's a questionable egg?
That's a question I have for after something has gone bad like Century eggs, which is a delicacy.
It must be something that that's gone bad.
But again, the other thing that we need to acknowledge is writing reviews.
I'm not sure if this is my personal opinion.
Writing reviews can be boring, you know, for the writer.
Yeah. Why would I spend time writing a review unless I'm absolutely pissed off?
Well, you're either completely happy.
Well, yeah. And those are the two extremes.
People don't write a review when they feel like, yeah, that was OK, I guess.
I might come back here.
I might not. No, no, those are not the review writers.
The review ones are the ones that are really, really happy or really, really unhappy.
I had a burger in our local community here recently.
And before I left, I called to the owner and I used my translator and I said that was one of the best burgers I think I've ever had.
I mean, guys, TGB. Yeah, I didn't know we were allowed to do you've eaten there, obviously.
Anyway, my point is I was really satisfied.
So I commented to the owner to the chef.
That was really fantastic.
And we will be back again.
I know. It was just an example of, you know, when somebody's happy, they're they're happy to leave a review as well.
OK. But do we not have an issue with them with them?
And I mean, the restaurant owners saying you can have a free dessert.
You can have a free juice if you leave us a positive review, because this is kind of destroying what the whole review system.
You're undermining the credibility of the review system.
100 percent. You're absolutely you're purchasing your positive reviews.
So how trustworthy can we take these reviews when we're looking at them online?
Well, that is my general attitude.
I there are a way to work around it.
I mean, Feifei just before the show was enlightened by a fellow workmate.
Yeah, just look at the bad ones.
Look at the bad reviews and you will know what to expect from this place.
Are they bad enough to to put you off?
Yeah, those are the more fun ones to read anyway.
Yeah, because when I think when people are leaving good reviews, we kind of know now that some of maybe 80 percent of the time you don't really mean what you are in those reviews, like great service.
But actually, in your mind, you'll be like, yes, service is OK.
It's not that bad. But I don't want to say it's in the waiter or wait is this a phase like you are not a good waiting staff.
So I just leave a comment saying, you know.
It's a very passive, aggressive way of communicating, isn't it?
It really depends on how people are using the rating platforms.
For me, when I look for a restaurant on the rating application, that means I'm already interested in the outlet to begin with.
And when I'm looking, I'm looking for anything that would put me off.
So in that sense, negative reviews, they have a point.
Yeah, and there are some downsides to negative reviews, right?
One of them is that you're relying on the general public to be judge and jury for a business, and that can lead to inconsistent or uninformed decisions.
Not all users have the expertise or the understanding of the nuances involved.
Then you have mob mentality as well.
I think that happens with reviews where one person leaves a negative review and then two more read that and then they decide, oh, yeah, I feel that way, too.
And then 100 feel that way suddenly.
And I think that can probably spill over to the panel as well.
The panel of judges.
It's like a jury, you know, if 11 members of a jury say guilty and you're the one who thinks, well, I don't know about that, but you people agree, so I guess I'll agree, too.
That could lead to comments being removed that don't necessarily deserve to be removed as well.
I'm not sure, because it's not like the real jury where they show up at court with the best wardrobe, but it's more like an online thing.
You're guessing you're getting invited to to leave an opinion, to to contest or to agree with the review.
You don't necessarily, you know, gather and rally with other jury members.
And also, I think it's really important to have a system to review the reviews and review.
In fact, it is a measure issue on top of it being inaccurate.
And also the sheer number of reviews like mentioned like Fifi mentioned earlier, there are 50 ,000 merchants that have successfully contested the unreasonable reviews that goes to show the sheer number of reviews that we see.
And it's not only limited to the rating applications, the rating platforms, but also other shopping platforms, for instance, Taobao and JD.
There are simply so many reviews that I don't think I have time to read all of them.
And also plus, you know, there are privileges and favours being given out to purchase certain positive reviews.
So the issue is so serious that different platforms have come up with different ways to bypass their existing system.
For instance, on Taobao, I think for JD as well, they are starting something that's similar.
They're inviting people who already bought the certain merchandise to leave to answer questions that other people have post.
Oh, interesting. Like I maybe have bought a new smartphone and Steve wants to buy the same thing.
He could start a question and asking whoever like me to to comment on the product that I find those very, very useful.
For example, when I'm buying a pair of pants on those shopping platforms, I'm wondering if those pants is good enough for winters or summers.
I can post a question online and the past buyers can answer, you know, is perfectly for warm weathers or is really cool.
Don't worry about them to wear them in summers.
And I find those comments more helpful than those positive five star reviews.
I've never looked at customer reviews for pants before.
Initially I thought you were a very careful shopper, right?
Initially, I thought that was a very, very innovative idea and to get past buyers to give their comments.
But then again, I already am seeing similar things happening again, similar things that already happened to the previous rating system where people can hire anonymous buyers and write positive reviews.
Same thing is happening.
The shopkeepers are leaving their comments, are answering these questions again.
But this I think they give sort of a sense of a community that you as buyers to this certain shop online, you form a community and you are sort of interact with each other.
And this sense of community is very important for online platforms like Taobao, like Meituan or or or Dienping, that they want you to stay together, communicate and maybe something new can generate from that communication line.
But then that means more and more information, useless redundant information being posted on various commodities.
You have to scroll through and decide what's useful for you or not.
I was wondering if they did this on review platforms in America.
Yelp, have you ever heard of Yelp?
Yeah, it's a huge in Los Angeles.
I know my friends from L .A.
told me that everybody looks at Yelp when they're looking for new restaurants and not not just restaurants, by the way.
I mean, yard work, home interior, you can find reviews on anything on Yelp.
They have they're in 32 different countries, by the way, and 219 different cities.
They average more than 178 unique 178 million, excuse me, unique visitors every month across their different versions of their app and desktop and mobile applications.
And people leave reviews on Yelp.
It's a review platform.
And I was looking up what what people can do, what shop owners can do or business owners can do if they want to dispute a bad review.
And first, they have to go to the website.
They have to click a dropdown menu and then it says select an option contains false information posted by someone affiliated with the business posted by a competitor or ex employee.
Oh, the angry ex -employee.
There's a whole list here.
And then after that, you submit it to Yelp.
And after that, they take about a few days to a week and they review it.
But the difference here is that it's a group of Yelp employees that review the comments for removal.
They can be removed if they deem so.
But here in China, we're talking about just customers who are judge and jury.
Again, I mean, the complexity of the rating game has become even more so that I think it's fair for us to share some tips other than let's say simply look at the negative reviews.
What other tips that our listeners can take away?
Well, on top of my head, I think, well, for me, I think it'll just go to that physical store and see with your own eyes.
I mean, it can be a five star review a restaurant on those platforms.
But if you went to that restaurant during lunchtime and nobody is eating there, that's pretty clear how good that restaurant is.
It applies to restaurants.
But what about other commodities?
In my case, my suggestion is to know what you're trying to get.
What's the one element that you value the most with this purchase?
If it's a memory disk, do you value stability, then speed?
You know what you're trying to get and then try and scout through the reviews.
I just buy by the color.
You know, I like the color.
The color is named and I'm sure that is.
Have you ever purchased anything simply because you like the color?
No, nothing at all.
Maybe paint. No, you're lying.
I know you would do deep research about the other qualities of the paint.
Yeah, I can do deep research on pants, but not on memory disks.
You're listening to Ryan.
And I don't do any research at all.
I just go buy it. Well, that that helps too.
But motivational Monday is next.
Here we go this week.
Let's begin with Steve.
Oscar Wilde, the author 1854 to 1900, perhaps best known for his work.
The picture of Dorian Gray.
Here's my quote from Oscar Wilde.
I love this. It's a great conversation point, I think.
To live is the rarest thing in the world.
Most people exist. That is all.
Meaning most people don't live their lives.
So despite against the humanity, they are simply existing like a bug on a leaf.
Wow, that's so deep.
No sense. But I would argue bugs can sometimes also leave.
You don't know what's happening with bugs.
Mine fair point. I know.
But I do. Yeah, I get that feeling, especially when sometimes lying on bed, you know, deep at night and start to rethinking of what's happening with myself lately.
And sometimes I will be like, you know, I need to be more adventurous too so that I can feel like I'm living in this world, not just existing, not just existing.
You're a mother of two.
You have your fair share of adventure.
But but still still.
Sometimes you fall into sort of a very old routine of your life and you start to, your feelings start to go numb a little bit.
And then that's the point of, you know, I need to wake up here now and maybe try something new.
And then, yeah, that's the reason for a lot of the decisions I make in life.
I think this supports my theory that human beings over centuries don't really change that much because Oscar Wilde was talking about this in the 1800s.
So that means people in the 1800s, just like Faye was just talking about, had that sense of, oh yeah, I go to work, but I don't really feel like I'm doing much with my life.
I feel like a zombie just walking around.
And what am I doing with my time?
That was in the 1800s.
Here we are in 2024 and plenty of people still feel like that, which leads me to believe that it's just human nature perhaps to feel like that.
Even if you are achieving some kind of small adventure in your life.
I know Oscar Wilde certainly lived a life of adventures.
I'm sure his life is more like concert after concert, play after play, opera after opera.
Even for him to feel that way, I think, is there some truth to it.
I mean, it's likely it's common for humanity to feel bored in some kind of routine.
And it's really important to think outside of the box every now and then and do some introduce some changes to your life.
Not everyone gets a thrill from shopping for paint like you do.
Yes. Well, you must have the eyes for them.
There you go. Faye, what do you have for us?
Well, since then, it's sort of my quote today is kind of kind of echo back with Steve's share is I come across a guy called Gooby online and he said, I don't have a plan and it feels good.
So Gooby is a guy I think he may believe in somewhere in the States, the United States.
And I shared a video a couple of months ago online talking about his decision to quit his job as a neurosurgeon.
And he said the reason was that he didn't have faith in his research field anymore.
And then also he came into realization that most of the medical treatments or the medicines that he gave out can only elevate his patients symptoms or pain, but can't really solve their problems from the root.
And really that gives him this frustration that he can't just continue down this medical career path anymore.
So his wife was very supportive and because he was very stressful at his job, he can't get enough sleep and he gained a lot of weight.
And eventually he decided to quit his job.
And he, when he was posting that video, he had nothing planned afterwards.
He just hiking in the mountains, talking to a camera with his dog, you know, meditating.
And now I think he was sharing some videos about health advices that he can give to people online.
But that I think is pretty much what he did right now.
And I think it sort of echoes back to Oscar.
Well, to the quote is that he has stopped existing his now.
Yeah, I think even as a neurosurgeon, he he says this feeling of just existing.
And even though he doesn't have any plan at the moment and it feels like a living for him right now, he's out there connecting with nature, spending time with his buddy, his dog and thinking about life.
I think it's a good point.
It doesn't really matter what we do for a living.
We think of neurosurgeons as these really fulfilled people who are constantly being rewarded for their efforts.
Not always the case.
Maybe when we think of celebrities or singers or actors or actresses, we think, oh, they must live the best lives in the world.
But any person, doesn't matter what they do, they can feel like this.
Yeah, right. So it's important to find the inner spark or the outer spark works as well.
Yeah, sure. Doesn't matter where it comes from as long as you're getting that spark.
What's yours, Laidman?
My quote is from Samuel Johnson, and he said, great works are performed not by strength, but by perseverance.
And my inspiration from this is that we often look at great achievements by other people and ask, how's that possible?
I don't think I have their talent.
I'll I'll never be able to do the same, but talent only defines our competence.
If I can run very fast, I may have the competence to become a professional runner and test my skills in competitions at various levels.
And if I can sing if I can sing very well, I may have the strength to become a professional singer and host concerts here and there.
But once we are at a job in a particular field, we compete with equally, if not more talented peers.
And this is where qualities other than talent come into play and perseverance or the ability to press ahead despite challenges and adversities and the occasional lack of incentive on our own provides that steady drive towards our goal and any work greater than child's play requires perseverance.
And if we wish to define our lives by the things we do, perseverance is the friend we want on our side.
There you go. That's all the time we have for today's discussion.
Thank you for listening and find us on at Roundtable China or any podcast platform.
