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Welcome to the A to Z English podcast. My name is Jack. And today we have a very
special episode for you. I am doing an interview with Johnny and Johnny is from
China. And we're just going to have a conversation today and you know, see where
it leads. So Johnny, tell us a little bit like where are you from in China
exactly? Hi, hi, Jack. Hi, the audience of A to Z English podcast. My name's Johnny.
And I'm from China and I'm living in China at the moment. So it's a great
honor to me to be on the show with Jack. It's an honor to have you. A lot of
time listener and you know, you always send us comments and things like that.
And we really appreciate your support. It's awesome. Well, yeah. Where in China
are you from exactly like what city do you live? Well, I'm from I'm from the city
called Fujo. That's like the the southern part of China. I mean, so the
south of China. Basically, okay, it's like a coastal city here. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm
sure they've got amazing seafood there. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if you heard
of the place, but we've actually got a lot of fellow countrymen everywhere.
Especially you will find a lot of my people from my hometown in New York. Okay. So in
China town. A lot of them are from Fujo. Yeah. Yeah. And they speak still speak the
native native language in like a dialect. Right. So a lot of people there speak that
dialect. Okay. Yeah. That's fascinating. Okay. Well, Johnny, a lot of our listeners
would love to know, you know, they just from listening to you talk right now. They're
they're probably in awe because you have such a strong command of the English
language. And thank you. When we do interview episodes like this, we'd love to like ask
our guests like, how did you like, what was your language journey? Like starting from
when you were young, when did you start learning English? What was your trajectory?
Yeah. Like, so you know, in China, so I think it's pretty much the same in the career.
So we started learning language in perhaps in our primary school. So we have third grade
in Korea is when they start. Third grade. Yeah. The same. Oh, it's interesting to find
out. Korea is the same. Yeah. So it's like third grade. And we'll learn it all the way
up to some people up to high school. High school. So we have in the in the big exam, you
know, for entering entering university, you will be tested. Just like Korea. Just like
Korea, right? But that test, it might not mistaken because I do teach some Chinese students.
That test is very grammar based. I mean, so it's a lot of grammar grammar, right? Yeah.
And well, actually, we don't really learn spoken English in China. So it's not that focused
on spoken English. So they can well, like, you know, I've been previously, I had been
learning English for many years, but I can barely speak three words of English because
I've never spoken to anybody in China. So we don't really have to, you know, the language
environment here in China. That's the problem. I don't know if it's the same in Korea.
I think it's the same in Korea. I think that they've implemented certain strategies to
try to overcome that problem because there are a lot of private academies in Korea, which
I'm sure there probably are a lot of private schools in China as well, where students can
start learning English at a younger age and have exposure to like a native English speaker
from Australia, America, Canada, whatever. But, you know, those are expensive. You know,
not everyone can afford those. So, you know, some kids are stuck with the public school
system where it's like a Korean teacher or Chinese teacher lecturing in Chinese or in
Korean, but they're teaching English, which doesn't really make a lot of sense, you know,
when you think about it. Yeah. So I still, I think we're in desperate need for some
good English teachers like you in China. So, unfortunately, we don't have that many,
you know, native speakers who teach spoken English in China. So that's basically the situation
here. Okay. So take us back. So you're Chinese in primary school. And are you going to a private
academy or are you using the public school system? Yeah, I'm pretty much using the public school
system. Yeah. So just like it's just like anybody else in China. Okay. So I wasn't in any
language training school or anything. I didn't like English or that must to be honest.
I was just going to ask you that question. I was just passionate. Yeah. Yeah. In a sense,
like it was just another subject for me. Okay. And I, and I, well, I think I did okay in,
in middle school, but in, in high school, like it falls off, I think pretty badly in high
school. So, so I didn't do so well in the college entrance exam for my English. Okay. So,
so I didn't, didn't, wasn't a really good English speaker. Yeah, that's probably shocking
to us, you know, because listening to not even I'm like, how is this possible? Like what?
Something, obviously something happened along the way there. That was like a real watershed,
like moment for you where you, you did something dramatically different than, you know, following
the school curriculum. Yeah. Like, yeah, I wouldn't say I, I wasn't even a good English learner
let alone a speaker. Okay. So I think things got changed when I, when I decided to go
to Australia for, or for their study. So, and so I think, and I started learning English
like from her learning English before that. Because you have to, you know, you have to pass
the exams, you have to pass English exam before you can go there. So, I think that's, that's
where I got started, where I noticed. Okay. So this, this is actually kind of interesting.
So, did you make the decision to go to Australia before you started learning English, you know,
or were you already in the process of learning English, you know, no, that was, you know,
that was all after the, after I decided to go to Australia. Wow. That's real like trial
by fire. You're like, oh my gosh, I've made this commitment. And now, yeah, then you're
and sort of, you know, force yourself to, to be committed to this. Yeah. So you got
to do whatever you can, you know, to the, because this is the, so you've, this is the
choice you may. So you've got to commit to that. Right. Right. What was it like when you
first arrived in Australia? How was your, how was your English at that time? Well, I think,
I think things got changed a bit after I, I, you know, I went to the language school
before I go to Australia. So I think, hmm, I can't discover that, you know, I have this
interest in spoken language. Because I started to started to really see if, if you know,
English movies, okay? I think that's what, what, what started me off in the first place?
What kind of movies were you into? Like, like, like, oh, okay. That, that, that's it. That
was an interesting grant because that was so many years ago. Okay. So, okay. The, the
one I, I can, well, you know, this is sort of given in a way about how many years ago.
So I think that was like, a movie, well, actually, when I started off, I watched some of the
older movies, okay, like that, the, the movies from, from someone's from the 90s, like terminators.
Okay. Oh, yeah. Sure. Terminate my favorite. Yeah.
That's a turn or two. Yeah. I was in high school when that came out. So that gives away how old
I am. Yeah. And, uh, uh, terminated that because that was the old time classic. So I started
seeing all those classic films like, uh, I remember this one called, uh, negotiator. I don't
know if you've seen this one. Yeah. Sam Jackson. Yeah. That's a great one. Yeah. Yeah.
Like Sam, Sam Jackson and Kevin Spacey, I remember exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the sort of,
uh, the movies that I watched at the time. Okay. And that kind of started me off. And I,
and I think I followed a, a TV program in China. And that was called learning English with movies.
Oh, I like that. That's cool. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah. That was, that was many years ago. Okay. So,
um, I, I, I stumbled across that, that that show on TV. And I think that kind of started my,
you know, that was, that was very, um, mm, that was really mind blowing to me. Yeah. Well, I can,
I can actually learn something through movies, for watching movies, something fun. If you
language learning can be fun. Right. So, it doesn't have to just suck all the time, you know. Yeah.
Yeah. If, uh, if it goes to me, English is all about exam before. So, right. Go buy exams before.
So, yeah. That, that kind of, um, um, introduce me to a, to a whole new world. Yeah. Yeah.
That's, that's great. I'm, I'm so glad that you brought, because I think these like,
this idea that like, if it's fun, it's not learning. And if it's painful, it's learning. And
I, I, I really, I just, I get disgusted by that kind of philosophy where if it doesn't,
if it isn't boring and it isn't painful and tedious, then you're not really learning anything.
And it's so funny because it's like when you really started learning is when you actually
started enjoying the process and, and discovering, um, English language movies and, you know,
things like that where you can actually be entertained and also learn something along the way.
That's a really, exactly. Yeah. That's how I felt. That's exactly how I felt. So, um, that's,
that was really mind blowing to me at a time. Yeah. I just, I'm sorry, I didn't, to interrupt you.
So, uh, uh, just to get back. So you, you, uh, you went to Australia and, um, you, you, you,
had a pretty like decent command of the language when you got there. You felt pretty comfortable with
like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that I had a good, good, good, just command of the language. I,
still, you know, I was, I was able to, uh, I guess I was able to order something in McDonald.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I was, uh, I didn't have to stop myself. That's, I think I,
I would say that's the level I've gotten at the time. We would call that like in, yes,
like a surface level of understanding where you can kind of navigate. You can get around and
taxi, go straight turn, right turn left. This is my house. This is my stop. Yeah. Give me the two
cheeseburgers with large fries. You know, that kind of, um, that's where my, the real is right now,
you know, to be honest, I've been stuck there for a decade. So, yeah. So I, probably, I, I, I couldn't
even, uh, like, name the, the correct cheeseburger that I wanted. You could just point, I can order
cheeseburger. Yeah. I, you know, the, the first thing I say is that you can only say this one,
that one of this something like, yeah, yeah, I didn't even know how to say, how to get a straw,
you know, uh, so in, in, in all language, we call it a sucker. So it's funny. Yeah. You don't want
to ask for a sucker in McDonald's in Australia. You might, you might get in trouble over there.
Just if, uh, yeah, can I get a sucker or something like that? So that's quite funny. That is fun.
Yeah. That's, that's, uh, that's hilarious. Um, so how long in Australia before you really
started to like, you know, um, feel like you were in your groove, you know, really like making progress.
Hmm. I, I think that was, I think the first, um, major change, or, or, you know, this has gone
to a point where you'll realize that, okay, something have changed, okay? So I have, I have,
improved, okay? That, that moment came, I think, um, about half year after I arrived in Australia,
six months later. Okay. Six months. Yeah. Mm. So I think I, you know, the, the, the, the,
the sentences that came out of my mouth was a little different. You know, I can, I think I can sort of
use the relative costs in my, in my sentences. So that was a big, that was a, that was a big change.
Yeah. This is the place where that's the person who is a place where, yeah. So you can actually add
a little description after the, after the none. Right. And, and that, that was, uh, that, that,
that was like a game changer. Okay. So you can, yeah. As significant amount of information to your,
to, to the things that you say. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that, because it's, instead of short,
choppy sentences all the time, um, you're able to, like you said, add description to a noun and
to, you know, build on that and make your sentence is longer and longer. So yeah, it's got longer.
Yeah. It's really funny that you bring up like relative clause because it's like, you're going back
to your grammar roots, you know, in China where you learn relative clauses, but you're like, now I can
use a relative clause, which is, you know, I really understand what it means. Yeah. And you know what
it means, exactly. Yeah. Um, and I understand why native speakers use it. Okay. Yeah. Because you
need to, you need more, you need depth in your language. You need more information, description.
Absolutely. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I'm just, you know, I'm, I'm thinking about your, your, your
story is really making a lot of like, um, I'm making a lot of connections to other students that
I've, that I've met and that I've, uh, talked to and interviewed. Um, they find that like when they,
I, I equate it to like learning the guitar or something. Um, when you're learning the guitar or
learning a language, you improve quickly in the beginning and then you hit a plateau and you get
kind of stuck on this one level and you feel like you're never going to bump up another level.
And then suddenly one day out of the blue, like you said, you're just making sentences that are
longer and more descriptive and it kind of, does that kind of light a fire within you to be like,
wow, this makes me want to learn this even more because I'm seeing the improvements
objectively, you know, you know, um, yeah, certainly, yeah. So I think I've, I've gone
long confident after, uh, I've time, I know I, what I can do. Um, but interestingly enough,
like not long after that, you know, I think I kind of hit another ceiling. Okay.
Yeah, that's normal. That's normal. Yeah, that's yeah, I stuck there for it. So I, I, I can, um,
you know, I, I, I think I passed that phase where I can only, um, say very simple sentences.
Okay. So, uh, so I can have a more meaningful conversation with, with, um, with a native speaker.
Okay. But I still, uh, so, uh, I still not confident, I'm not confident enough in, um, in some of the,
the more, um, deep conversations. Right. And I think I kind of stuck there. It's just like you're
sat, you know, so that was a really good analogy. Yeah. Like learning guitar. I get, I, I, I, I, I,
kind of stuck there for, uh, for a long time. Again. Right. Okay. I, I didn't see any, uh, I didn't
see any improvements in my language. So I think that, that's, that, that, that lasted about, I think,
maybe, um, a good one or two years. Okay. So that was, um, kind of suffered.
Um, but I, I want to, I want to just, um, talk about this a little bit because I, I think I,
I don't want our listeners to misunderstand that you're, you, you felt like you're not making
progress. And maybe when it comes to like producing utterances, but, but things were happening inside
of your brain during that entire period of time. There were, you were, you were, um, immersed in
English language. You were internalizing rules and patterns and things like that. You just weren't
able to kind of, uh, convert it into utterances that were, you know, you know, speech perhaps.
But I think that you were improving. I, I, I just think that like, um, it's, it's part of the
process is like, you feel like you're stuck, but you're actually not, things are happening.
And, and progress is being made. It just might not be as, um, obvious as, you know, perhaps we
would want it to be, you know, because we, we want, like we were in two weeks later, we want to,
you know, show people, look what I can do, you know, but it's, it takes a long time
to get to that next level. And so I think a lot of people give up during that time. And it's sad
because they're actually, yeah, are improving. It just maybe isn't showing the way that they want
it to. I think that that's a fair point because, um, probably, you know, I, I, I would have given up
on the, at the point, but, you know, I was, uh, I was not in China. You know, I was in,
I couldn't give up. There's no, there's no way you can, you were in, you were swimming with sharks,
you know, you were, you were like, sink or swim right here. Yeah. So that was, uh,
that was, so everything, everything you do, every, every time after you, you know, you wake up,
you have to speak English. Otherwise, you, um, you know, otherwise, you wouldn't be able to do
anything. So, so I kind of got lucky there. So at that point, uh, you're, you're in that environment,
so there's no way you can give up. So I kind of got me through that period where you feel,
um, you know, a little disappointed about yourself. Okay. But I'm not making any progress.
So Johnny, we talked about that you're like long plateau that was like maybe two or three years,
uh, maybe one or two years, where you got kind of stuff. One or two years. Yeah. Yeah. And so how,
how long were you in Australia, by the way? Uh, just a couple of years, like three to four years.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. And, and what did you like, when, when you made that second jump up after that
one to two year plateau, were you able to like have deeper conversations with people? Did you feel
like, like when you're sitting in a circle at a coffee table in there, you know, the native
Australians are kind of, you know, uh, bantering back and forth. And you before you were kind of lost
in the conversation, did you feel like now you understood what was going on? You were able to
understand kind of a more, uh, deeper level what they were talking about. Um, actually, no. Okay.
Okay. Okay. Actually, no. No, because, uh, you know, you know, you know, all these, because they have
this average strong Australian accent. Right. So in some nice, they, they have their, it's like,
uh, almost like they're not really speaking English, right? So their systems like totally different,
they use different words, you know, they use a lot of different words. Langed a lot of different
wind slangs or Australian slang. So you, you know, be able to get. So that was, that was a problem
there. Sure. Sure. Yeah. And, uh, um, no, you know, you know, a problem with, uh, overseas students.
So the overseas students usually hang out with the overseas students. Yes. That's a huge
way. Always tell them not. We always, I always tell my students, don't hang out with your
Korean friends. Like, don't do it. I tell, I tell myself that, but, you know, it's just,
sometimes it's a, it's, uh, well, you know, you know, uh, this is something you should do,
but you're just not be able to do it. Right. So, and it's comfortable and it's familiar.
It's, it's comforting. It's so, it's so tempting. It's so tempting. Right. So when, when,
when you, uh, when you talk to the native speakers and you, you hear so many, um, words that you
don't understand, it's just so frustrating. Right. I guess it's frustrating for, for anybody.
You know, it's funny thing is I found my French classmates. They, they hang out with French as well.
Yeah. That's what I have. Yeah. I'm, this is not like a Korean or a Chinese, uh, you know,
I don't want to say problem, but like situation, you know, it's, it's something that a lot of
exchange students will do because when you're, when you're feeling lost and completely
rudderless, you know, just alone in the ocean, the first thing you're going to do is, is go
towards something that's comfortable and familiar and you're going to find people who are from your,
you know, your country and you're going to latch onto them and hold on for dear life, you know,
because, uh, it's, it's very scary, you know, to do that. Yeah. I guess, because I think you,
you probably share the same experience because you're, you're in Korea. Yeah. So you,
so I don't know about that. When you go with a lot of Americans and Canadians and we
went to a lot of places where there were a lot of other Canadians and, and Americans. Exactly.
Yeah. Yeah. I guess I tell my students do as I say, not as I do, you know, so.
Yeah. That, that's basically what happens everywhere in the world. So, uh, I guess that's,
that's why, you know, I hit the second ceiling because I don't have enough conversations with
the real native speakers. Now, I go to classes, okay, yeah, we use English in the classroom and
that would probably do some approved assignments, and, uh, you know, that, that's it. Okay. So,
so you don't actually, so, um, you, you, you had a lot of input, but not, not enough output.
I understand this like many years, many years later. I don't understand the, you know,
understand the theory at a time. Right, right. Not so many students don't understand the theory.
And there are a lot of, a lot of teachers have kind of, uh, older, I'm going to use a big word
here antiquated for our listeners out there. Just, exactly. Old-fashioned.
Fashion. Okay. Yeah. Old-fashioned, um, kind of philosophy on education where, you know,
the students are sitting in a desk pointed at the teacher and the teacher is speaking English to
them, but they're supposed to, you know, shut your mouth, be quiet, listen, and, and don't disturb
my classroom, you know, um, that, that's the, that's the kind of educational system we've been using
for more than a hundred years. I know. And still going. It's still going. You could put a PPP,
you know, you can put a projector in a classroom, and, but it's still, I still find myself standing
in front of a room full of people with their chairs pointed at me. And I, I wanted to myself,
why are we doing this, you know, a hundred years later? Um, it's, it's, it's terrible.
So I almost got your, your, your, uh, university teacher. Right. I teach university here in
Korea, but yeah, it's still, you know, the, the whole setup is, is, uh, very familiar.
It's, um, yeah, it's, it's the same almost everywhere. Um, so how, how do we get to Johnny today,
you know, with, with your wonderful, um, eloquence and, and speaking ability?
Well, I can only say I'm still learning.
So long way to go. So long way to go. Yeah. Sure. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a never ending
journey. You're never going to get there. There is no desk, final destination. Um, you know,
there's always, there's always, even for me as a native speaker, there's still more words for
me to learn and more things for me to read and understand and, and to, um, um, but, uh, but that's
kind of the beauty of, of teaching I find is like, you, you realize that, um, the more you learn
about something, you think that it's going to get closer to you, but as you look on the horizon,
it just gets farther and farther away. It's like the deeper use that you go into English,
the, the horizon is moving away from you. The, you know, it's getting farther away. Yeah.
And, and you realize, oh, this is a never ending process until, you know, the day I die, I'll
still be learning English, you know, and yeah, we call that a lifelong learner. Okay. So you're
learning for a lifetime. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's, that's a better way to look at
yourself is a better way to look at it than to say, oh, this is my destination. And when I get
there, I'm going to stop. It's like, no, you, no, it's a, it's a, be a lifelong learner. It's a much
better way to think of yourself. Um, so how did you get, how did you get to where you are now?
Like, what, what was your, what's your secret? I think the, uh, the second, so the,
now I'm coming to the, the second big game changer. Okay. Okay. My journey, my journey in, uh,
in Australia. Okay. So, you know, I, I, uh, you know, I, I got a, a part-time job at a time. Okay.
So, because I, I think, okay, so something has to change. I mean, I, I have to work out, you
have to work out your conference zone. Sometimes you just have to push yourself a little to work out
the conference. Also, I have found myself a part-time job there, you know, which is self-person at a,
uh, um, at a mobile phone store. Oh, wow. So, okay. Yeah. So, you, now you need some technical English
because you have to learn. Yeah. You're not going to get by with hamburger and, uh, you know,
yeah, it's not going to cut it. No, no, no, you're not getting away with those simple words. So,
because not only do you have to talk to the customer. Okay. But you also have to sell your products.
Okay. Otherwise, you'll get fired. Right. Right. So, so you're not only have to, to, uh, speak to
them, you have to, uh, sort of get them hooked, you know, and get them listened to you. So, so they'll,
they'll buy things. Right. So, you sort of establish this kind of, uh, connection with them.
Okay. Right. So, again, it really allows me to, uh, get into a deeper conversation with them.
And, and, you know, because it's a paid job, right? So it's a paid job. So, so, uh, you're more serious
about this. Not like, uh, you're fooling around there. Right. It's not like the classroom,
you know, project where you're joking around and, you know, you know, no. So, sort of forced
myself to, uh, to think about, uh, some of the grammar, some of the, the, the terms that I used.
And, uh, I think I learned a tongue from my, my colleagues. Okay. So, I think one of my, uh,
colleague is the, is a boss song. Okay. He's like 16 years old or something at a time. You know,
so, uh, and, um, and, you know, so actually he, he was using a lot of the teenager languages, you
know, a lot of slang and, yeah, a lot of slang, the teenager slang thing. And, uh, I, I still, but
still you, you learn, you learn a lot, you know, from from that experience. Yeah. Actually,
I think that might be the perfect kind of like practice partner is someone who's, yeah, you
know, they're, they're not necessarily professional or established yet, you know, so they're not
intimidating. And, you know, he's, they're also probably way more relaxed and chill than like,
you know, the, an older person might be someone in their 40s. Yeah. So, again,
much more comfortable. Much more comfortable, exactly. And then, and I, you know, I'm really
thankful that he's not judging. It does not, I'm not so fluent in English, you know, it's
sometimes the teenagers they have, they're the, they can be, uh, they can be the, uh, some little
demons, but they can be, can also be the nicest person in the world. So, you know, I just happened,
I'm just so glad that I, that I met the, the, the, the nicest person in the world. Yeah.
They're not judging. And, uh, but it could be daunting sometimes, you know, to, uh,
still face the, face the customers because they, they can ask your questions. Right? Absolutely.
And they're, they, whilst, and I mean, I don't want to say this, but sometimes as customers,
they don't, uh, they're not going to forgive you because, because your native language is not
English. Right? They're just going to get frustrated. They're going to complain. Yeah. If you can,
yeah, they, they, if you can't explain something thoroughly, they're just going to get complained. It's
very, very natural. Right. Well, it's, uh, we, we call them, uh, that's a, a Karen behavior, um,
social and I talked about, brother, side again. Yeah. One of our podcasts. Well, I mean, but you,
you're gonna, eventually you're gonna get a Karen, you know what I mean? Like, you're gonna get
someone who's gonna be very impatient and frustrated because maybe they're not going to give you
that extra like, I don't know, space to like kind of catch up in the conversation. They want to be
understood immediately. And if you're not meeting their demands, they're going to start complaining.
Yeah. Yeah. That can be scary. Yeah. It was. It was. Yeah. And I'm just, I'm just going to ask this
on behalf of our audience here. Are you a male Karen? Jack? To be honest, actually, I'm,
I'm very far from a male Karen. You know, I'm not, I don't, uh, I don't, um, I don't practice
Karen like behavior in my, in my regular day. I'm pretty, I'm pretty patient and pretty,
pretty laid back when it comes to those things. Yeah. I'm just just playing. Yeah.
Um, so that was, that sounds like that, that job, your part time job was again,
your philosophy is kind of like, I mean, I'm starting to see a pattern here in like your,
in your life. You first, you decide to go to Australia, then you're like, oh, now I have to
learn English, you know, and then you're learning English in Australia and you're like, I'm going to
get a job. Oh my gosh. Now I have to start speaking on a deeper level to these customers. It's like,
you put yourself in these situations that are very high stress. And then you rise to the occasion,
which I think is, you know, I mean, that's like a, a trait for, of like, very successful people,
we'll do that. They'll, they'll jump in first and then they'll be like, now I have to figure this out.
Whereas cautious people will, you know, I'm going to study for 10 years and then maybe I'll apply
for that job. It's, it's much better to just do it your way, right? Just jump in and go for it.
I, I guess, I, I guess I, I, I go lucky. Where I go lucky that I have this opportunity.
My, is my family has been able to support me financially. Yeah. It allows me to go
do another country to study. So that this sort of, you know, when you're in this country, when you're
in this environment, so the sort of take away your, your safe, safe net. So you don't have the
safe net, right? To fall back home. So you, you, you, you have to, you have to.
And, but you know, it doesn't have to be extreme. Like what you did. I mean, what you did is pretty
extreme. But I'm going to, I'm going to say to our, our listeners out there, you know,
it's also scary to introduce yourself to a native speaker. You know, if you, if you see one in
your neighborhood, you know, like that's scary. But you know what? Go introduce yourself. Just
take that leap of faith. And so that's like kind of doing it on like a micro level of what you
did. And you don't have to move to Australia. You don't have to get a job at, you know, selling
mobile phones. But you could just introduce yourself to someone who speaks English. Try to be
friend that person. And, and that could be another avenue to success that doesn't require money.
It might require a little bit of time and energy. And you know, yeah. But I think, I think these
little things are, there are little ways to do, to be, to take risks that will actually benefit you.
Yes. Totally agree. Yeah. So, so I think it has to, you know, I heard this for you. It has to
stop somewhere. Right. Everything has to stop somewhere. So I think it's the, the, the,
it's really crucial that thing is better. If you're determined to learn this language,
you better stop somewhere. Whether that's, that's a really simple sentence that maybe just saying,
hello, just like you're saying, hello to the, the foreigner in your, in your neighborhood. Yeah,
something, you know, they're not going to eat you, right? So why not? Why not? I'm not going to eat you.
That's, I like that. No, why not? That's true. Yeah. Yeah.
Um, that's fascinating. And so what do you, are you a teacher now? Is that, if I'm not
a teacher? I am. Yeah. I, I, I am a teacher. I'm an IELTS teacher. So I think from that, you know,
from that, from that, uh, from that mobile phone job many years ago, you know, I found my interest
in learning the language and speaking the language. So I, you know, well, I, I wound up in different
jobs later. Yeah. So that's a long story. But anyway, so I, uh, eventually I was able to,
uh, you know, found my true, uh, interest, which is language, uh, and language teaching, I guess. Yeah.
So that's amazing. I am a teacher now. Yeah. Yeah. I love your story. I think it's fantastic.
And I think it's very inspiring. A lot of our listeners out there are going to appreciate it.
And, and I think some of them have had similar experiences. And maybe, you know, I like you said,
a lot of it is locked to, right? The fact that you met the right people at the right time.
Um, but, you know, if you put yourself out there, um, opportunities are, they're floating around,
you know, and, uh, if you don't try, you, you, you're 100% chance of failure. So, you know, you,
you gotta take, you gotta take a risk. Um, so Johnny, you're, you're interested in podcasting.
If I'm not mistaken, this is something that you're, uh, yeah, I'm aspiring to do. Yeah.
Uh, so you had some questions for me. Not only not. Yes. And thank you, Jack.
But, um, you know, actually, I want to thank you to inviting, you know, thank you for inviting me
today here. So I could be on the show and ask you about all these questions.
Absolutely. Um, so yeah, you're, you're saying that, um, exactly. I'm, I'm, I'm interested in, uh,
starting a podcast. Yeah. I've been thinking about that for a long time.
And actually not, not only, uh, podcasting because I'm actually quite new to podcasting because it's not
the, I guess it's not as popular as, uh, it is in, in, you know, basically, uh, outside China, okay?
Yeah. So China is not a thing. It's always evolving because what I've noticed is that podcasting
without YouTube being, or being a YouTuber, um, or, um, in China, Billy, Billy, you know, without
doing something like that. Um, you know, people want to be able to see you and listen to you.
That's what I've, I've, I've come to realize is that they really want to see you and listen.
And so I would recommend if you do, you know, if I were to do it all over again, I would have made
more of an effort to be a podcast or slash like YouTuber, um, really put the effort into like
the video as well, which we haven't, you know, for the last couple of years, we've been mostly just
an audio podcast. I don't know how you, how did you find us, um, by the way? Oh, oh, yeah, that's
the, um, that's an interesting word as well. Uh, I think I first, somewhere across, um,
your channel on, on a channel on Billy, oh, okay. Yeah. So I was, yeah. Yeah. So, uh, because I was,
uh, I was trying to find some of the, some of the materials for my students, right? Cause I don't
think they have enough input. So I think they should listen to more of the, uh, native speaker conversations.
And, uh, well, trust me, I, I've tried a few, a bunch of, or different, I've tried different things.
Okay. Try different channels. Okay. So, but you know, because I, I teach out speaking, right?
So I now speaking, uh, it's sort of a, uh, it's very conversational English, you know, right?
Right. So a lot of students are familiar with the, the sort of a monologue type of, uh, speech type
of, uh, uh, English more to, toic or something like that where it's like, uh, a kind of
presentation, or something like a, like a presentation. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that.
Right. So, but not enough, you know, uh, the conversational English. So, uh, that's, that's where I, uh,
came across your channel. And I, and I think, well, this is just fantastic.
Oh, thank you so much. I, we are the least like academic, uh, of the podcast that I've come across.
You know, we, and that, that happened to be exactly what I needed.
Yeah. That's fantastic. I love hearing that, um, it makes us, you know, it kind of validates, uh, you
know, uh, things for, for social and me because I, we do, we have kind of found our lane in which
is it, it's not the most beautiful, polished, you know, kind of, uh, uh, podcast, but, um, we do
just love to have like real, genuine conversations with each other. And I feel like that's something
that's missing. It's everything's all planned out. It's so clean and so crisp and, um, you know,
conversation is messy and ugly sometimes. It's not, you know, it's, it's not this like,
beautiful. Yeah. Well, it doesn't have language. Doesn't have to be beautiful.
Right. That's, that's my take. Yeah. Exactly. We can't all be Shakespeare. It's not all poetry,
you know? No, no, no. Yeah. So, um, yeah. So if you, you know, if I, if I were in your, your shoes,
um, well, let me ask you a couple of questions first. Are you, are you thinking of doing like an
IELTS style podcast or something? Are you, are you going to focus on something specific?
Yeah. I think that, that, you know, Jack, that's where I got stuck. You know, that's kind of where
I got stuck because, um, there are many people, you know, many competitors out there who aren't
doing, um, this kind of contents already. Okay. So, um, so if, if I were to do it now, okay,
would I be able to ever compete with them because they started earlier? Okay. So, and, and, and,
doing that, I kind of limit myself to, you know, to this group of audience that, yeah, there are
only interest in, in, in adults learning. And it's kind of a small group of people, you know,
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, that's, that's, that's what I'm worrying about. Okay. So, I, I, I, you know,
uh, you know, uh, you know, way I don't want to limit myself to only this group of audience.
So, I want to, I want to, a bigger audience. But yeah, exactly. It was not too greedy.
No, no, you got to be greedy because it's, there's only, you know, there's only so much bandwidth
out there that people have, you know, for, for this kind of content. And, um, you know, I mean,
social and I were still plugging away two years later. And we've made some progress, but, you
know, there are times where downloads are not as, as good as some months. And, you know, we wish we
were more successful, like some of the bigger, um, you know, ESL podcasts. Um, but, you know, we
stayed, you know, we try to be genuine. We try to be authentic. We try to be true to ourselves
and what we enjoy doing. And, um, I guess that's what, I think that's my, the best advice I could
give you is find out, like what you're, what do you authentically enjoy doing, you know, like,
what are you, you know, if you have teaching a lesson is your thing, then, then, you know,
you could take some of your lessons from your IELTS class and you could actually, you know,
convert those into like podcast form, you know, and do it that way. Um, if you're, you're a
conversationalist because we're having, we had, it's already been 45 minutes and we've been talking.
So we're having this great conversation. Um, so you could go down that lane and, or you could
do all of those things, you know, um, and, um, and just, and, and see what clicks with the, with
the audience as well. Cause once you get something that people like, yeah, you have to follow that,
you know, follow that lead, that trail because they're, they're telling you what they want. And,
you have to follow it, you know, sniff it out. Yeah. Yeah. I know that's, well, it's a lot of
about, you know, doing the right thing, the right time. And so I guess, uh, videos, uh, that,
that the shot videos are a thing, you know, since, since the, since TikTok, I guess.
Yes. Yeah. It's at a, at a point, yeah, I was thinking about maybe I should do a TikTok.
We should I do TikTok or YouTube or, uh, because YouTube isn't really, uh, you know,
available in China. Right. So should I be a YouTuber or so then, then, you know, um,
a lot of things you have to take into consideration. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I, I would tell you,
you know, honestly, do it for a while because you'd love to do it. And don't worry about the
downloads and the success because if you, you know, you find that you're really enjoy doing it.
Like for me, this is like very much, um, a kind of a hobby. I always call it a job. Yeah.
It's a job. It's like, okay. Is that, is that a word? I just made that up. But, uh,
okay. Between, yeah. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's something that I would love to do and generate
income and survive on. Um, but I'm not there yet. Um, but I keep doing it not for, for money or
for fame or anything like that. I just really enjoy it. You know, it's just something that is really
really good. And I think it's, and you're, you're doing something good for, you're not just wasting
people's time. You're actually giving them something that they, they need, which is, you know, more,
you know, content for language learning. Cause I think there's just, there's never, there can never
be enough of that to be honest, um, in my opinion, because people are always looking for more
ways to learn English. And they're connecting with certain personalities. And you know, you may
just resonate with, with certain people and, and, but I would, you know, follow your instincts.
Be yourself. Don't try to be, you know, somebody else. Um, you know, I tried that in the beginning
of podcasting where I tried to have a better broadcasting voice, but the truth is I stammer and I,
I, I, you know, repeat myself and I, you know, uh, uh, you know, I do all that kind of stuff. And,
and that's just who I am, you know, and if, if people don't like it, then, you know, they, they'll
tune out. But I, I think people will forgive you if they think you're being authentic and genuine
as, as a, as a presenter, as a podcaster. Yeah. I think being genuine, that, that's, that's
really crucial. Yeah. And, um, well, you know, uh, I, uh, I share the link up your, uh, your
podcast with many of my students. And I think they, they, they think it's absolutely fantastic.
Oh, man. Thank you so much. My students being listening to, you know, thank you, Jack. Well,
thank you for creating such a great, uh, all these great content. Okay. Thank you for you and,
and, and, and, and socials and Kevin's, um, effort. You know, we're actually, we're listening to,
uh, some of these earlier, uh, uh, earlier episodes. Yeah. Where you feature Kevin and, uh, maybe
someone else that I don't remember the name of. Yeah. You're, you're going to deep,
inspirational. Yeah. Yeah. We had some really good conversations at the beginning. You know,
Kevin and I started it together. And then, um, he got too busy and social was a guest on our,
our podcast. And then she became a, uh, of my full-time podcast partner. So yeah, just kind of
funny how that happens. Um, but, uh, you know, thank you, Johnny. It means a lot to us. Um, and
thank you so much for spreading the word. And, uh, for our listeners out there, um,
um, this was my, my conversation with Johnny, Johnny, if Johnny gets a podcast started, I will be
the first to promote it to, uh, all our listeners out there. Of course, of course. And, uh, if you
guys want to listen to this episode, go to our website, a2zenglishpodcast.com. If you want to leave
us a message, you can send us an email at a2zenglishpodcast at gmail.com. You can talk to us in our WhatsApp
group or in our WeChat group for our Chinese listeners out there. And, uh, with that said, uh, Johnny
takes again, man. And, uh, listeners, thank you. We'll see you next time. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye bye.
