Hi, my name is Christina Ricci.
And I feel pretty good about being Conan O'Brien's friend.
Pretty good.
Oh, my God.
I don't think pretty good is a bad thing.
But I've had this argument with an ex-boyfriend who was like why is qualifying good?
It means it isn't that good.
Yeah.
And I was like, no, it's pretty good.
I'm falling right into the old boyfriend mode.
Pretty good?
What's wrong with, like, amazing or really good or just good?
I feel fantastic.
No, too late.
Oh, shit.
Fall is here.
Hear the yell Back to school.
Ring the bell, Brand new shoes walkin' loose, Climb the fence, books and pens.
I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
Hey there and welcome to.
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.
Everything is different today.
Everything is different today, and not in a good way.
Let me explain.
Matt Gourley called in.
He says he's sick.
I suspect him of just goofing around or whatever.
He didn't seem sick.
I saw him yesterday.
I saw him this morning.
Do you guys hang out without me?
I live with him.
We live together.
I saw him on a Zoom today.
He looked rough.
Oh, he did?
He might really be sick.
He was laying down.
Yeah.
Well, it doesn't mean he's sick.
It just means he's relaxing.
Anyway, Matt Gorley not here.
So what happens is they said, okay, Matt Gorley's not here.
Is it okay if David Hopping sits in?
And I'm like, ugh.
Sure.
But then I said, okay, no, David, you know that you filled in for Sona.
You now do the day-to-day assistant stuff.
And Sona, I don't know what you do, but somehow you get paid more than you ever were paid before.
But anyway, who can understand how this company works?
I don't know who's in charge.
So you're sitting in, but then we're about to record and a bunch of people I don't even know come into the house, the house, the studio, and they say camera's down Conan's, camera's down.
People were... scrambling around because this can also be seen on the YouTube.
Yeah.
It can be seen on the various.
The YouTube.
On the YouTube.
The YouTube.
Well, on the various YouTubes.
Yes, YouTube.
Feel free to jump in at any time there.
Sure talk a lot.
YouTube and our social channels.
Yes.
No, no.
And don't feel like I just shamed you.
You're allowed to jump in whenever you want.
Yeah.
Just make sure it's valuable.
So there's video.
My camera's down.
My camera's usually right across from me that way.
But now my camera's way over to this side.
And I have to twerk my whole body to see my camera and put those blue peepers.
Into the everlasting light.
Now, here's the other thing that's different.
Sona usually sits over on this side next to me.
She's always to my right.
Andy Richter, all those years that I was doing the talk show, almost 30 years, was to my right.
Hmm.
Sona is now diagonally across from me.
Yeah.
And so I don't like that.
I don't like anything that's happening today.
And I look directly across from me and you're here, David.
Yeah.
So everything, and I know people say, what's the diff?
What's the big diff?
Larry Bird.
Diff.
Larry Bird.
When he played for the Celtics and he was on that parquet floor in the old garden he knew where the dead spots were in the wood.
He knew that court inside and out, and this is my court.
I am Larry Bird.
This is my parquet floor.
The year is 1984 and I'm playing at an incredible elite level and I've got a very wispy mustache on my upper lip.
And I come from French Lick.
And my shorts are way too short, like everyone else in the NBA.
I mean, you're just about to see anything jump out at any second.
And that's me.
And then suddenly they said to Larry Bird in 1984, something's going on with the garden.
We got a problem.
You're not going to play there.
And also your teammates that you rely on aren't going to be there.
Some of them are missing.
Well, who's missing?
Well, Robert Parrish isn't going to be there.
Kevin McHale's not going to be there.
Who's going to fill in?
Burt Zeisterman and Josh Galabana.
They're sitting in.
What's that?
You're saying Larry Burt didn't know how to play on the road?
It's not like the Celtics played all their games at home.
Eduardo, if you ever speak to me again, it'll be the last time you speak to me.
No, I'm just saying that he's preparing himself for a home game.
OK yes, I know that they would play on the road, but I'm sure Larry Bird familiarized himself with those courts as well.
What I'm saying is they took away some of his his personnel.
OK, his teammates, his chums and the people that he's used to playing with.
Then they said, guess what?
We're not even going to play in a basketball court today.
You're going to be playing it in the bin of balls.
What?
The bin of balls.
They just changed your.
At Chuck E. Cheese.
They just changed your camera.
No.
They want me to dribble a ball in the bin of balls at Chuck E. Cheese.
Okay.
And so I'm trying to dribble the ball and it's just bashing into all these other.
Huh?
Nobody calls it.
They call it a ball pit.
Ball pit.
Yeah.
It's not called a bin of balls.
What is that?
I've never heard the term pit.
It's a ball pit.
I've never been there.
I've only seen it in commercials.
Well, it's.
And so I never heard it identified.
I've only seen kids emerge from it looking more frightened than happy.
Yeah.
Like they survived ash rain at Pompeii.
But that's all I've seen.
But no announcer ever said, and you'll enjoy the ball pit.
I never heard it named.
So I just said, that is a bin that's been filled with balls.
So I had to make up my own name and it stuck with me.
All I'm saying, if I can be allowed to finish my sentiment, is that I'm 1984 Larry Bird.
I've been taken away from Boston Garden on the parquet floor.
I've been stripped of Robert Parrish and Kevin McHale.
And I'm trying to bounce a basketball in a bin of balls at Senor Chuck E Cheese.
That's what I'm saying.
I don't mean to keep bursting in here and I'm sorry about this.
But also can I say I'm realizing Sona.
Normally I'm looking into my camera right now.
Normally Sona sits between you and I.
Yes, and you, many times during the interview, will look over at Sona and I hide behind Sona and her hair.
Now I've got like the eye of Sauron, directly.
There's nothing.
How do you deal with this, Sona?
First of all, you should be happy, because I would have fired you a long time ago.
I know, I know I can see you now and I'm irritated.
I want to crawl underneath the desk.
You should.
And also, let's get something straight.
A lot can hide behind Sona's hair.
You know what?
I mean, there could be a Volkswagen bus back there.
Come on.
I'm just saying, you should be proud of it.
You have thick, luxuriant hair.
I do.
It's all over the place.
It's everywhere.
And then you put these products in it.
Yes.
Various waxes and Eastern oils.
Why are they Eastern?
I don't know.
You know what?
I'm the one who moved.
Everything is different for me.
You don't even look at the camera when we're recording most of the time.
Nothing's changed for you.
They also asked you to move and you said no.
Yes.
That's true.
They did ask me to move and I refused, which took an extra 10 minutes.
I had to bring in a whole like other ladder.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, anyway, I'm sure Larry Bird wasn't always easy to work with back in 1984.
All I'm saying is the analogy holds.
OK.
I'm an elite A-list athlete in the mid 80s and everything's been changed up on me.
And yet still, I think I've put a lot of points on the board.
Oh, God.
Oh, my God.
Pretty good, huh?
I don't know.
Wrap it up?
Yeah, wrap, wrap, wrap, wrap, wrap.
Well, guess what?
My guest today put on the old glasses.
Remember when I didn't have to wear glasses?
Falling apart here.
My guest, you know what I'm going to get is a lorgnette.
Shouldn't we get one of those lorgnettes?
I didn't even know that was the word for it.
Yeah, and it's, well, it's also called bin of balls.
I want to get a Lauren yet, which is the thing you a society lady puts up to.
Oh Groucho, you know a bin of balls.
Just tells me you've never been to a birthday at Chuck E Cheese.
No, I never have been.
OK, and maybe I'm sad about that.
And maybe all these jokes are hiding a wound.
You know, I will take you.
I also used to hear the one time a kid died in the ball pit.
And I think it was suffocated.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like they got stuck underneath them.
But it's not true.
It's an urban legend.
Yeah.
Let's just make sure.
That's a potential legal matter.
No, it never happened at Chuck E. Cheese, and nothing bad ever happened at Chuck E. Cheese.
We should just cut that part out, but that's what I heard.
And did you ever hear that?
I think you should leave it in as a cautionary tale about saying things about giant corporations.
But the ball pits are all gone now, too.
Oh, that's sad.
No more bin of balls.
Stop saying bin of balls.
It's just sad.
Yeah.
Been there, done that.
Okay.
My guest today...
My guest today, get me a Lorne yet, someone.
Write that down.
My guest today has starred in such films as Now and Then and The Addams Family.
Now you can see her as Misty Quigley in the hit Showtime series Yellow Jackets.
I'm very excited she's here today.
Christina Ricci, welcome.
Christina, I'm really happy to see you because it's been quite a while since I've seen you.
And I have a very nostalgic feeling about seeing you because you came on the show for the first time.
I think it was for Adam's Family, the first Adam's Family movie possibly.
You were a kid.
But I was like 15, right?
So I think that was for Casper.
Was it for Casper?
I think so.
I mean, you were a kid, and I remembered feeling... I thought you would come on for Adam's Family.
I remembered Raul Julia came on for Adam's Family.
Okay, well, then maybe I did come on for Adam's Family.
And I thought you came on.
You're probably right.
Whatever, right now, Eduardo's... I see 1999 and 2005, so I'm not sure where that lines up.
Okay, that's going to be later.
That's going to be, like, in the Casper area.
But see what we've done.
LAUGHTER
And when I say we, this is really on you, Christina.
You could have just said, sure, Adam's family.
I'm really sorry.
You know, and then we wait for some nerd to contact us and go, incorrect.
But we don't even read that post.
What I remember is you were very young and you'd be whatever, you'd be like 15.
I'm a guy in his 30s at the time, mid 30s.
And I remembered being a little bit intimidated. because you were so convincing as Wednesday Addams.
Your deadpan was so amazing.
I was very impressed with you and still am, but you just so nailed it at such a young age.
And I remember just, I don't know, just feeling a little bit like oh, she could kill me with that look.
Do you know what I mean?
I was a little bit intimidated.
Well, no one should have been intimidated by me then.
It was, you know, just a teenage rest.
But do you remember that we lived in the same building in New York also?
Yes, I was going to bring this up too.
We lived in there's this building called the Police Building, which there was this- No, it really is.
It was Teddy Roosevelt, not Teddy.
Yeah.
The other-
No, no, it was when Theodore Roosevelt was chief of, he wasn't chief of police.
No, he was chief of police.
He was police commissioner.
Oh, really?
He was police commissioner, which I think is a different title.
But anyway, basically, look at us.
We keep qualifying each other.
Semantics.
No, it was Casper and it was police commissioner.
And it's Ricci with three Cs.
Ricci.
You never knew that.
There's this cool building downtown.
And for a brief period, I thought, I wonder if I'm cool guy.
And I moved into the police building.
No, it was really cool.
But I wanted to live there because I had just read The Alienist.
And they talked about how there was the tunnel between the building and O'Neill's.
Yep.
So I was really excited about that building.
Which probably doesn't exist.
No.
I asked a lot of the janitors and stuff, and they were like, what are you talking about?
I was like, you know, the tunnel.
The alien is great.
You can just walk around the corner.
Great book.
Great novel by Caleb Carr which is all about late 19th century crime solving and Theodore Roosevelt's in it because he's the police commissioner at the time.
The police building is this famous old building that they had converted into apartments.
And here are the people that I remembered.
I walked down to my apartment, which is the end of the hall.
Occasionally I'd see you.
I'm like, wow, Christina Ricci.
Also Kyle McLaughlin.
Yes, Kyle lived there.
And he lived there with his girlfriend at the time, supermodel Linda Evangelista.
Oh, my God.
I rode in the elevator with them one day, and she was really the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen in real life.
Well, I've got a runner-up for you or maybe a tie.
Oh, really a tie.
Which is the other person who lived there.
I don't know if they both lived there or if one of them lived there and the other was staying there.
Cindy Crawford and Randy Gerber.
Oh, but also Christy Turlington lived there at the same time.
Okay.
So you've got all these people.
And Francois Nars, like all these crazy, crazy big people.
They used to be in the gym with my mother.
My mother would be like, I had a wonderful talk with Christy today when I was on the treadmill.
Insane, right?
So I was thinking maybe I belong here and I was flooded.
Cause this is Conan.
I mean, I don't belong there now.
There was no time when I belonged there, but I was, I don't know.
I want to say I'm 34 years old, still trying to figure out how to dress.
Like I'm not in high school.
And I've been doing the late night show for about four years.
And I remembered one day rushing to get on the elevator, getting on the elevator.
And it was whatever, Cindy Crawford and Randy Gerber looking.
I'm.
I threw on a t-shirt like a Who Farted t-shirt and like some shorts and probably like Birkenstocks, and ran on the elevator after putting like still had acne, ran on the elevator and I'm like hold the door.
And I get on and it's those two glowing, just glowing.
And I think they like kind of made out on the elevator on the way down.
And I was like, I'll have a girlfriend one day, you'll see.
But I remembered seeing you super cool.
I was not.
I was a total wreck.
I was in like Garbage Pail Kids style moment.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
No, I had decided that if I was going to be that ugly anyway, that I was going to dress as hideously as possible.
So I wore like a lot of conflicting colors and really big pants and men's underwear and just was my whole style Garbage Pail Kids.
Well, I don't know why you have that self-image.
I was a teenager.
But I remembered you very fondly.
I think you were on The Late Night Show seven times.
I've said this occasionally about other people who were on as kids.
I'm gonna call you a kid because I thought of you as a kid that I almost have this feeling that is weird of pride, like that an uncle would have.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, oh, Christina's coming to do the podcast.
I remember her.
Hasn't she done well?
It's weird because I've done nothing to help you.
No, but you did.
You did.
No, but coming on your show and being able to promote myself and my work on your show and your support because you can say like no, I'm not having that asshole on my show.
I've said that, and they booked them anyway.
And you're here today.
No, but I mean, I never...
You're one of those people who I have this strange feeling of, I'm proud of her.
She's done well.
And then I step outside myself and go, you're not related to her.
Yeah.
You're not, you know what I mean?
It's very strange, but...
I had a lot of nice thoughts and memories today when you were coming on, and I am very happy for you that you've done so well.
You just got your star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.
What is that like?
I mean, are you gonna tend to your star?
Are you gonna go buy, is it like a houseplant?
I don't know how that works.
I don't know.
I mean, it's been there.
I haven't visited since the ceremony.
I kind of thought about bringing stuff to my star, like my favorite flowers and a candle.
A candle's like, people will think, yeah, what happened to Christina Ricci?
I guess so.
Yeah, that's not good.
But maybe in some way I'm like trying to mitigate my feelings of mortality.
In some way, like if we already act like I'm dead, maybe it won't be as unusual.
Such a huge shocker.
It's like when you call yourself 40 when you're only 37 and you're just like.
I know I'm getting used to it.
I wonder if maybe subconsciously that's what I'm doing.
I'm not sure.
That's such a... So morbid.
That's so morbid.
But these are... But also, I get it.
I understand what you're doing, because I have a very dark streak, very dark streak, and people think that I'm being morbid.
And I think, no, I'm actually...
It's practical.
Yeah.
And it's also, I find it freeing to think.
I've had this conversation with a bunch of my friends that I find it very freeing to think that I don't really matter and that I'm here and that I'm not here.
Yeah.
I'm not there yet.
Like, that's terrifying.
But I do find it easier to just, like, accept.
Accept that we're going to die.
And then, you know, work with that.
So this is what the Hollywood Walk of Fame means to you.
Did to me.
Your inevitable death.
But, you know, when people bring up, like, the whole thing is about, like, legacy and permanency.
And long after... Somebody can't... They were, like, you know...
You have to answer all these questions right afterwards about the star right there at the time.
And they're asking you what it means to you.
And I guess my answers weren't quite what they wanted, the person running the press for it.
So somebody said, you know, another great thing to say is that, and I was like, oh, okay.
So I am tanking this one, apparently.
Yeah.
I don't seem grateful enough.
But another great thing to say is that I love this because I know that even decades after my death, my children's children and their children will be able to come and visit this star.
And I was like...
What?
So, like, the best thing about this is that it involves me being dead.
Yeah, exactly.
That seems... Also, we all know apes will rule the earth by then.
Well, the other thing I was thinking too They'll have gotten rid of all the human, you know, remnants of our society.
Not to be like glib about any of it or not as taken as seriously as I'm supposed to, which I really was moved by it and I really was appreciative.
But it is still just concrete.
Like a bomb could go off and then that, it's gone.
It's not like, like nothing is indelible.
There's no such thing as permanent.
There really isn't.
So I was like, oh, it's permanent.
And the whole time I'm just thinking like yeah, unless someone has a jackhammer or they like, expand the freeway, or this building falls on this site.
Wait a minute.
I love that they're going to expand the freeway and take out a huge set.
They're going to take out 900 stars.
There goes Clark Gable.
We are living in unprecedented times, my friend.
So anything is possible at this moment.
You're right.
So do you like your location?
I do.
I was actually really happy.
That was the first thing I asked.
I was like, where exactly is my star located?
I'm at Hollywood and Vine.
What?
I know.
It's like a really great location.
That's the fine location.
The frolic room is across the street.
Little door is like right around there.
Those are bars.
Yeah, you know.
No, but the Frolic Room is historical.
The Frolic Room is in Women Under the Influence.
Yeah.
Or Women Under the Influence.
Can I just say, I was offered a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and I said, that's really great.
Where's it going to be?
And they said, the Channel Islands.
They said, it's a weird adjunct.
You have to take a boat to get there.
And I said, who else is there?
And they named one Muppet that never made it.
His name was Snaffles.
Snaffles.
Yeah.
He's made of three socks and he was a big bomb in 1971.
Just roll with it, Sona.
Just roll with it.
I've been drinking.
I love the frolic room.
I'm sorry.
I just wanted to interject.
And is this a bar that you've both been to?
I think I was there one time, but I more always loved seeing it.
And that it's in it's in the Jenna Rollins movie, the Cassidy's movie.
I just saw L.A.
Confidential.
It's in L.A.
Confidential.
Somehow it's still lasting.
And you've been more than once, I'm guessing.
Yeah, I mean, it's a historic bar in L.A.
It's like a really cool spot.
But it's also a bar.
So you've been more than once in the bar aspect of it where I've had drinks there and I've partied and I you know I love it there.
Sona, two kids now and she's reformed her ways.
But man, well, you you lived quite the life.
I mean, I enjoyed I enjoyed places.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I enjoyed a lot of places also.
Yeah.
Sometimes I don't remember those places I enjoyed.
I enjoyed them so much that I don't even remember leaving.
We're testing your blood right now to see how much you've enjoyed yourself.
How much enjoyment you have.
You're under arrest for too much enjoyment.
Too much enjoyment.
I know that I have this long distance view of it, but you just seem to have handled fame at a young age in sort of a very classy way.
And that's at least how it appears to me.
I've actually thought.
I've thought about this a lot, which is I'm not a big drug person meaning really not at all but I've long held that probably the most powerful drug in the world is fame, and letting kids have access to it is very I have very mixed feelings about it.
It's such a powerful thing, and it often doesn't go well.
You being famous at 14, 15, 16, that's gotta have been something to navigate.
Yeah, I don't think I always had a lot of objectivity or the ability to really analyze myself at those times, those younger ages
So I never really felt famous.
I still forget a lot.
And I was never really comfortable with it.
So for me, it didn't ever feel like power.
It sort of felt like something I had to like navigate.
Like when I lived, I used to live over in Los Feliz in the Oaks.
And I would drive around when I was like in my 20s.
And I was, you know, I'm a small person.
And so being a young woman, very small, and having people follow me or talk to strangers approach me and stuff felt very threatening at the time.
Yeah, yeah.
So I played this mental game where I pretended that my dad was just this doctor that everybody loved in town.
And I was just like, oh, Dr. Ricci's daughter.
And that's why everybody was being nice to me.
But not that I was famous.
And everybody just really wished me well.
And it worked.
It worked.
I became very comfortable.
But then to the point where I didn't have my guard up enough.
And I had to be like, well, we have to end that now.
Yeah.
So the paparazzi thing, did that freak you out when you were young?
I did not enjoy that.
Just because people, they'll follow you all the way home.
And I lived by myself.
And that felt very threatening.
And I found there was a liquor store on the corner, Victor's.
That's right across the street from the Gelson's up there.
And Rick was this guy who always worked in there.
He was always smoking a cigarette.
And he's the only person I would ever let call me Chris.
And if anyone ever followed me, I'd pull into the liquor store and I'd go tell Rick, and Rick would come out and chase them off so I could drive home.
And then one time my sister and I lived together in our 20s and there was actually a man that would come and sit outside the house and leave notes on my car and stuff.
And sometimes we'd be like ready to go to dinner, but he'd be out there waiting and we'd be like, oh man.
So we would just, like, turn off all the lights and wait until he left.
Oh.
No, but like so.
So fame was like it was great.
Like I get into any restaurant and I never had problems getting into clubs and all that stuff.
But it also was like there were, just like you know, logistical and security issues that, to me, loomed larger in my mind than the actual like fun of being famous.
Well, I also think this is something that I don't take into account, which is I am very – I don't ever feel threatened physically by people around because I'm 6'4 and a guy.
And I just don't even think about it.
I'm very physical myself, meaning like I don't – I'm not afraid to –
Shake hands with strangers or whatever.
Mix it up a little bit.
But I'm constantly reminded that if you're not my size and if you're a woman, especially if you're a young woman, it's a completely different feeling when people are around.
And it's not welcome.
And it probably sets off all kinds of different alarms, whatever.
Well, I think it just depends, you know.
But yeah, I was, I felt, I did feel threatened a lot.
And I still am a person who's very paranoid and safety conscious.
So I still will feel threatened if a strange man walks up to me and like, touches me or starts just, I don't know, follows me to my car.
I don't like that.
You maced me when I came in to say hello to you at the podcast.
And you kept doing it.
And then your publicist said, it's Conan.
And you said, oh, I know.
And then you took out a separate bottle.
Oh, no.
Yeah, that said extra strength.
And you really went to town.
Oh, man.
What the fuck was that all about?
You are so good in... I'm just going through randomly things that you've worked on.
But I remember seeing... I really liked the movie Sleepy Hollow when it came out.
You did with Tim Burton.
And I was thinking about that movie.
And Tim Burton had this quote about you.
He said that you had an ambiguous quality.
He's such an amazing director, but he said he was drawn to you because...
Different people could read in different things to your performance.
And I don't know.
Do you agree with that?
Did you think he had he he nailed something about you?
I do think there's something a little bit ambiguous about me.
I mean, people I'll compliment the person.
They think I'm making fun of them.
I don't know that I'm the easiest person to read.
And so perhaps that's what he's talking about.
I wonder how much of it is.
You have beautiful eyes, famously beautiful eyes, and you have large beautiful eyes, and I wonder if that's a way that people can maybe make it.
I don't know.
You're reflecting something back at them.
You're not even doing anything, but they're reading something into it.
To project something onto it.
Yeah, maybe.
I'm also very flat in affect, and I think that people just assume...
I don't know.
I just think that that's difficult because I don't emote that much normally.
Yeah.
I think I'm probably the opposite.
Yes.
I'm constantly emoting.
Constantly emoting.
And I have beady little eyes.
It's not about your eyes.
That reflect nothing.
Okay.
Some say dead.
Yeah.
Dead doll eyes.
You just wear your, everybody knows what you're thinking.
I'm a giant mood ring.
Yeah.
That would be very helpful, though, if we could turn different colors based on our moods.
That would be so helpful.
It's good.
It's interesting to me that you probably knew as a very as as a kid, you clearly knew this is something I'm interested in doing.
I'm always fascinated to find out. how does Christina Ricci know, oh no, I can do this.
I can act.
I can be in film.
How do you figure that out at such a young age?
I was in second grade and they brought in sheets of lines and stuff into music class and they said we're putting on a Christmas pageant.
And here's the pageant we're doing.
And read these lines
And the second I saw them and started reading them and participating.
I just remember i remember sitting there by myself and being like oh, i know how to do this and nobody else here does.
And i just was like oh this, that's so crazy.
I know exactly what he wants and this kid over here can't do it, and that one.
And i just felt really in that moment i felt like i had found my thing yeah um, and then it just always felt like that to me, like i just had a shorthand into understanding what was needed to do that work.
As a kid, That's such a it's, I would imagine because I do not know that it would be akin to just knowing at an early age that you're athletic.
It's what it felt like.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, being really good at a sport.
Yeah.
Or just sports in general, that you get out there and, oh, I know what this is.
I know what to do.
And this is what's needed now.
And I'm going to do this.
And I did it.
And I struck that person out or I scored the winning touchdown.
I did not have that.
Yeah.
My childhood was a series of nope nope nope nope, and then figuring out like you say oh, I know what this is.
I can make my friends laugh.
And, oh, it's time for us to do – we're all supposed to write something.
I'm going to write something silly.
I know how to do that.
And people are laughing.
And so –
It was.
I think kids figure out very quickly what their call it a superpower, what their ability is.
It's an innate thing.
We tend to figure it out quickly.
I think it's rare that someone figures that out at like 58, you know?
Yeah, but you do see people who are lost and just have no idea what their special thing is.
That's very sad.
Yeah.
As a parent, I have a real fear of that happening to my kids.
Really?
Yeah.
Well, your kids are probably pretty young, I'm guessing.
Ten and three.
So you're already like, damage!
They've accomplished nothing!
Nothing!
I just mean you have to think about all the pitfalls.
Yeah.
And I guess, also being someone who had happened for very early, I would love for them to have that, because it's such a relief.
And I really have seen how lucky I was to find it so early.
It's interesting because then there's the question of would you want them?
Would you be comfortable if they were interested in getting into the business?
I know to me, I was just like, nope.
Nope.
No child of mine is going to be in, because I always thought show business and I still think it's a racket.
Like what I'm doing is illegitimate.
It's a racket.
And at some point someone's going to come and shut this whole thing down.
You know, because my parents, you know, went to graduate school and were doctors and lawyers.
And I just I somehow got into vaudeville.
I got into a time machine and I'm a guy with seltzer and baggy pants and vaudeville.
And that's how it feels to me anyway.
It doesn't feel legitimate.
Yeah, no, I agree.
I go back and forth.
My son has shown a lot of interest in it.
I think he'd be very good at it.
But there's also all the logistical things like who's going to take him?
I work full time.
I can't go to set with him.
And yeah, and also it's risky.
Who knows if he's going to handle it that well.
Well, yes.
Imagining.
It's so funny that what I've learned as a parent is I am so afraid of any of the, even the notion of my children being disappointed or having their feelings hurt.
But if it happened, but it's happened to me a billion times and I'm fine with that.
So why am I projecting onto them?
Of course, I can have this happen a billion times, but God forbid it should ever happen.
And of course it's happened to them.
Yeah.
But just the notion of it, you just think, no one's going to say anything to my child.
I know.
I have a very strong, overly...
I'm overly attached to my son and anything he experiences emotionally, I also experience, and it's not healthy.
But I have the same thing.
I always worry about him going into a new sport, because what if he feels bad about not being good at it or if anybody's mean to him or if someone makes fun of his sneakers?
I'm like well, we're going to get you the best sneakers they've ever seen.
Who the hell did you just become?
I don't know.
Oh, we'll get you sneakers, we will.
You become the creature from Leprechaun.
That's the problem.
That was me being intense.
Oh, okay.
This is why I'm such a good actor.
Yeah.
You didn't realize.
Totally, I did and I do.
I'm a huge fan.
That's called intensity.
It must be nice to... I mean, the success of Yellow Jackets has got to be quite satisfying.
Because what I've noticed as I move along and I'm much farther along on my path is that...
As I get older, I appreciate and enjoy things more, doing this podcast or whatever.
Any gig that I have, I kind of appreciate it.
It has getting to do the show for Max or hosting the Oscars.
It just feels like oh, I think I would have been so anxious and neurotic about it at a younger age, but now, when nice things come along, I can appreciate it more.
Do you have that with like Yellow Jackets?
I do.
I really do.
And you know I was.
You know I had like sort of my big moment in my 20s and went to all the award shows and all the stuff.
And then that sort of stopped and I didn't really work that much for a while.
And then this Yellow Jackets thing happened.
And then all of a sudden we were going to award shows again and all this stuff.
And it was so interesting because this time I could just be like, oh, my God, I love that guy.
Hey, I'm Christina.
And like just be really open and easy and fun and like I, you know it.
Just it was um, like you said, like I wasn't uh, I wasn't so self-conscious and I wasn't so worried about everything, I didn't take myself as seriously as I used to, and uh, and so it's.
It's actually you.
It has been really, really fun.
There's this quote one of the Bee Gees said second fame is so much better.
And I guess the Bee Gees stories which I didn't even really know.
There's an amazing documentary about them.
And I didn't really know much about them at all, but it's a fantastic documentary.
And I didn't realize they were huge pop stars in the 60s.
And then it soured, like anything, the time passed.
And then they're trying to figure it out and they're bumming around and they're completely out of it.
And they're a once was.
And then they reconstitute and become this 70s juggernaut phenomenon, one of the biggest groups of the 70s, if not the biggest.
And they were like oh, it's just so much more pleasant the second time around, because we know what that is.
And so now it can be more about, as you said, you can go to these shows and not be neurotic and freaked out and just enjoy.
Yeah.
Just enjoy.
It also feels so different now too.
Like just Hollywood in general feels very different.
How does it feel different?
Everybody just seems like happy to be there in a way that wasn't like that in the early 2000s.
Everything felt so serious then and about like power and position and ambition, and it was Really serious.
And now it just feels like people actually celebrate at these award shows and are like happy to see each other and there's enough room for everybody.
And I feel like it was so much smaller before that it didn't feel like there was enough room for everybody.
And yeah, it just has like a much nicer feeling, I think, in general.
Something too about maybe the fact that the business has changed so much.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's crazy to think about it, but...
I know when I came up, when you came up, but still we're talking about a limited number of networks.
There's no streaming.
That's what I mean, yeah.
Yeah, and now if you've got a good idea, there's a good chance you can get it out there somewhere.
I mean, even the nature of movies has changed where it's not the giant blockbuster.
And there's a plus and minus to that.
That's at the award shows, but there is less of a feeling of it's a small club that a few people are allowed into.
So many people can have a great idea, get it on YouTube, get it out there.
If they've got talent and ability, they can find a streamer, they can find a way to get their vision made.
And it just feels a little more user-friendly now.
Yes, it's softer and gentler and less desperate now.
Unless you want to shoot in Los Angeles.
Well, then, I mean, honestly... That's getting weird.
I don't actually know how anyone makes that happen.
Yeah.
It's really getting.
I mean not to take things down, but that is a big change.
That's happened is people will shoot something that takes place in Los Angeles on Hollywood and Vine, and they'll go up to Nova Scotia to shoot it and recreate Hollywood and Vine and put your star, Christina Ricci.
I'm sorry, I will not allow that.
Nobody can recreate my star.
They moved it an hour ago.
Putting my foot down.
Without telling you.
Either shoot in L.A. or... That's the kind of power I've gotten this time.
Can't have my star in your movie.
What's it like?
Because with Yellow Jackets, you have this interesting thing where there's your character Misty, you're playing as an adult, but also there's an actress who's playing you as a child or not a child, I shouldn't say child but as a teenager yeah, as a kid.
To me at 85 it still seems like a child, because I'm doing that thing where I want to say I'm 85 now, just to get used to it.
Yeah, I've already started.
I'm going as far as 87.
Anytime I can't work anything, I'm like...
Anytime I can't work anything, I'm like, well, I'm basically 87 when it comes to technology.
And the more I say it, like the more I'm feeling more comfortable.
I love that you're two years older than me.
I love it.
I'm older than you.
Is it Sammy Hanratty?
Is that the actress who plays you?
And it's interesting.
I don't know how much.
Do you have communication with the actress who plays younger you to try and see if anything needs to line up?
Or is that overthinking it?
Well, we did in the very beginning.
You know, we shot the pilot and then COVID happened.
So it was about almost a year and a half later that we actually went to series.
And so she and I met up to discuss.
We're really, really different people personality-wise.
Like, it's surprising how different we are.
And so we sort of compared notes, the different performance notes that we've been given, because it was interesting to hear what they wanted to correct or were worried about.
Because, like... you know, she's a very bubbly, dynamic, like, charming, sweet person.
And so to hear what they were concerned was going to come out in her performance was interesting to me.
And then to hear what they were afraid I was going to do was very interesting as well.
So like mine was all about like no, she's charming and everyone loves her and all she wants is love and she's human.
And hers were, like, Kathy Bates from Misery.
And, like, you know what I mean?
So I just was really...
Funny.
There's a rumor that they put her on depressants.
We got to reach you up a little bit.
We're putting you on a massive dose of depressants.
Yeah.
They were like trying to make me more adorable and her less adorable.
And so so by doing that we got, we could like, we both felt like we understood, like where the parameters were for the character.
But beyond that, we never really, I'm very sensitive about not being condescending.
Like I even have trouble complimenting people because I feel like it's condescending.
And, um, I don't I guess I don't know why, but I just do.
So anytime, the idea of like giving another actress performance advice or notes to me just sounds like really I'm overstepping my place.
Yeah.
So we both have very we have our own performances.
And when you think about it to 30 years.
30 years and a lot of intense stuff.
That's right.
30 years of like squeezing and rejection and pressure and trauma and all this stuff.
You're not going to be the same exact person you were.
So I think it really does work out.
And the writing on the show is really good.
And the character is very consistent on the page.
Yeah.
So it's kind of OK for any kind of differences or variations in our performances.
The people are intense about this show.
They I mean the fans are hardcore, and which is a compliment, because I think we live in an era where if you put the detail in the work into the writing and performing and you really try and tell an interesting story, there's an intensity to the fandom.
Mm hmm.
It's actually a compliment.
Yeah.
It's like the fans, I think fandom now is very literate.
If you look at shows like yours or shows like White Lotus or shows that people are really, they really get into trying to find the clues.
What does this mean?
What does that mean?
And they treat it the way It should be treated, which is it's an art form, which is nice.
It's not just, oh, yeah, I watched another episode of show they crank out every week.
No, they take it very seriously and they hold us to certain standards and they let you know when they're disappointed.
And they're quite, you know.
Do you go online and read stuff?
Well, I'm 87 when it comes to technology.
So I don't know how to get on Reddit because you have to have a Google account.
My Google account is in Romanian and I don't know how to change it.
So I can't get onto Reddit.
We have some people here who can help you if you want.
I've heard about all the things.
And a lot of the other actresses on the show do read all the stuff.
Melanie Linsky, apparently, she told me she reads Everything.
I can't find everything or else I might read it.
I don't know.
My experience has been if it's dire.
Someone will tell you.
Someone's going to tell me.
That's how I feel.
That's how I feel.
If it's an extreme one way or the other, like you know, Blay will come in and tell me people really loved that thing you did.
And it will be a different, it'll be Jeff Ross who comes and tells me, you got a problem?
We got a problem?
You know, what did I do?
That satanic ritual you did?
Apparently it's very offensive.
No, I'll be like, fans love the satanic ritual.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You'll tell me that.
And then Jeff will say, no, people are lawyered up.
That's how I feel.
Jesus is lawyered up.
I feel that way too and sometimes, but it's weird now too, because everything's supposed to be everywhere, but then also things are hard to find.
I did this series of interviews with Melanie and I made some comment about this song.
That's in the show that I had a lot of pent up rage about, because the entire time we were shooting, everybody tried to gaslight me and tell me that it was a great song, and I was like I know it's not so, everyone can stop lying to me.
So when we finally went to the press, I did it.
And then my producing partner was like, oh, it looks like it's everywhere.
And I was like, what are you talking about?
And then it was like, this clip was everywhere about when the band responded and all of this stuff.
And I had absolutely no idea.
And I've kind of felt in that instance like Somebody should have told me that I shouldn't be badmouthing somebody's song.
So in a weird way I feel I trust the safety net, but then I don't trust it so much, because then I'll see things and I'm just like, oh yeah no, I should have been told about that.
I think there's a lot more of everything.
There's a million opinions, and there's a million ways to, whatever, piss people off.
The flip side of it is that because there's so much, people forget.
Yeah, I guess so.
I mean, that band won't forget.
Right, right.
But they shouldn't.
I feel bad.
No.
They have a lot of fans.
I was in the, you know, everybody else loved it.
So clearly they're great, and I'm weird.
But I actually, yeah, I don't find out too much.
I just found out recently from Melanie that apparently there are people who really hate our characters.
And I didn't know.
It's just that everyone loves me.
So I'm just going to keep going with that.
Yeah.
Well, also, I think it's good.
As you get into your 87th or 88th year, who was it?
I think it was Jeff Daniels.
He did some show the actor Jeff Daniels and the press started.
Critics started to ask him.
Well, some people think this about this project, or some people think that.
And he said, you know, guys, I can't help you.
I can't help you.
This is the work that I did.
And I loved when he said that the phrase I can't help you meaning you do your part, which is you do your work and I do my work and then
It goes out there and people are entitled to like it or not like it.
But I don't know that I need to participate in the process of people liking or disliking it.
This is what I did.
And I wish I had had that attitude more when I was in my 20s and 30s.
I wish I'd had a little bit more of that, because I was very much.
I just want everybody to be happy now.
And I think it's an improvement to be, well, you know, some people have that early.
Like Bob Dylan had that when he was 19.
You know, this is what I'm going to do.
If you don't like it, it's your problem.
You know, this is how I talk and this is how I sing.
It's great.
You know, and you're like, how did he have that?
How did someone have that?
But I think as I get older, I think, yeah.
That's what I did.
And why should you, Christina Ricci, be actively looking for someone who mistakenly doesn't like what you do?
Yeah no, I also find that like I've never really been somebody who Like, once I'm done, I sort of never revisit it.
And for movies that's always been totally fine, because you finish it, you move on with your life.
Then you have to watch it once and answer some questions, and then it's done.
Done, who cares?
TV's a little bit different because you keep revisiting the same thing and the press lasts a lot longer as well.
But I've always been someone who has a lot of, like real-life emergencies, like you know.
Just life, you know there's a drama over here and a family thing there and your house is on fire and all this stuff, and so i've never, i've always been like i just i don't have the time or mental capacity or energy to focus on something that i can't change.
Yeah,
I think that's a healthy way to be.
I pronounce you healthy.
Thanks.
Amazing.
Yeah.
And I think my opinion should... I have no... What are you going to say, Sona?
I was going to say, if anyone can pronounce someone healthy, it's you.
Mentally healthy.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think you're the perfect guy to do it.
You're perfect for that.
I'm trying.
I'm trying to evolve.
I'm doing the best I can to evolve.
I know.
And you've been with me a lot, Sona...
You work on yourself.
Yeah, we've been together a long time and you've seen me try to evolve.
Yeah, yeah, you have evolved.
And physically too, much more powerful.
I don't know about physically.
I think I went too far.
You're still kind of at the same place.
Okay, all right, let's change the tone.
Shall we change the tone a little bit?
I think we should change the tone.
All right.
Well, Christina, it's been a pleasure for me to get to talk to you again.
Thank you, you too.
I had a very nice warm feeling when I heard that you were going to be coming in to talk, because I had all these memories from that other life.
Yeah, that's how I feel also.
Yeah, you're like, oh, there's that guy who still can't get his skin still breaking out.
Just stop it.
That's not what I thought.
Come on.
I thought, oh, I've known Conan forever.
Our careers kind of started at the same time.
I do have that feeling now more and more if I just see someone that I went to college to that I haven't seen since the 80s.
My first overwhelming feeling is, hey, we're still here.
Isn't this cool?
In a very basic way, we're still here and you're thriving and you're doing great work, and I'm just very happy for you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I was so excited to come and see you.
And I do feel like we've been in each other's lives forever.
We have.
Our career started at the same time, basically.
Yeah.
I mean, my adult career.
I'd already had a child's career.
That's right.
That's right.
I didn't know you then.
But yeah, I'm just, I'm thrilled for you.
I really am.
And thanks for being here.
Congratulations on Yellow Jackets.
Thank you.
And have you started, this is the, which season is this?
We have not gotten our pickup yet for season four.
Let me handle that.
So we're all everybody's like I could make one phone call, would you?
Yeah, it won't do.
It'll literally be a phone call where they hang up on me.
It'll be to a receptionist and she will hang up on me and then I'll call back and go do you know who I am?
No no, we know, we know.
You just have really no power and we're gonna do what we're gonna do.
But congratulations and come back, let's talk some more.
Yeah, I would love to.
That sounds great music.
I want to come clean about something, which is that recently I got a burner phone.
You did.
And I love it.
I love having a burner phone, okay?
Now, you've been intimately a part of the process, David.
Yeah.
Basically, Oscars were getting close and I was noticing that there was so much going on between the podcast and the HBO Max series and the Oscars.
Humble brag, busy much, Conan?
Oh, my God.
No, anyway, I think...
I was getting crazy.
Yeah.
And I said to you, I just want to have a phone that has so that I can call Liza.
I can call you, David.
I can call Jeff.
I can call Sweeney, the head writer.
Like, I really want to just be able to.
Sona's number's in there, too.
And Sona's.
Yes, Sona, you're in there as well.
OK, thanks.
OK, I just chose not to call you.
No, I did call you from the burner phone.
But here's the thing.
So we went and we got a plastic flip phone.
Yeah, I just called and ordered it.
You went and picked it up all on your own.
I went and picked it up all on my own.
And the young man selling it to me recognized me and was weirded out that I wanted this phone.
Well because OK well, I was thinking after picture.
You're the person I call and I say Conan O'Brien's coming in with an unlocked flip phone.
He needs a like month to month number not connected to his to his regular one.
It sounds like he's like involved in something.
Yeah.
Shady.
It is shady.
The guy acted.
The kid acted like this is weird.
And I just said, give it to me now.
I need it now.
And walk around.
And it's this cute blue little guy.
And I like him.
I like him and it's crazy.
I tried to send a text on him.
It's insane.
Is it T9 texting?
You have to press each button until the letter pops up?
Yes.
And I mean, you end up, everything's yes or no with my answers.
You can't send an elaborate thought because it takes 40 minutes for me.
Wait, no bits?
You just send a reply with no bits?
I can't do bits because it's too, I can't do.
Only text the burner.
I can't.
Oh my God.
So I start walking around with this thing and I'll call people.
And for a while, no one was picking up because this, it just, they just think I'm spam.
But then I told them, look, I've got a burner phone and here's the number.
And so I ended up not needing to use it as much as I thought, because it turns out not that many people were contacting me.
I had this whole freak out, which is like, I'm hosting the Oscars.
I'll be bombarded with well-wishers and advice from top celebrities.
I need a burner phone so I can think my thoughts in seclusion.
No, not that many people.
So then I was contriving reasons to call people like, um, hey, David.
And you're like, yeah.
You called me from your office upstairs.
You could have just yelled my name.
I called you from upstairs and I was like, can you come on up here?
And you're like, yeah, I can.
Good.
Good thing I have this burner phone.
Yeah.
So I still have it.
Yeah.
And I love it.
I don't have a real reason to use it, but I love the idea of maintain.
First of all, it expired automatically after a month.
Yeah.
And then I got mad.
I was like, what are you doing?
I want to keep this thing.
Yeah.
I want to have this phone that only I know about.
And I don't know what I'm going to do, but I know it's going to be crucial at some point soon in my life.
Okay.
I'm going to be in some situation where I need this burner phone or I'm on the run.
I'm on the run.
I'm on the road.
I'm on the go.
I'm trying to get off the grid.
Can they trace a burner phone?
No, the whole point is that they can't.
That's why it's a burner phone.
Here's one thing.
My wife, I only found out about this recently, but she tracks us on our smartphones.
All of us.
Me, our kids, they're on the East Coast in college.
She's like, getting lunch.
I'm like, what?
What the hell are you doing?
She's in the dining hall.
And then not that long ago, I called her to tell her I'm running late to meet her for sushi.
And I call her and go, yeah, I'm just stuck in traffic.
I'm just running a little late.
And she went, well, you're pretty close.
And I'm like, whoa, good thing I didn't visit the mistress today.
Yeah.
Anyone who calls her the mistress doesn't have a mistress.
Anyway, but now this idea is, I don't like her knowing where I am all the time.
I don't think I'm up to anything bad.
No.
But still, I like the idea of maybe I'll just, she'll be like, I'll see what Conan's up to.
And she'll call the phone and it will ring in the kitchen.
And she'll be like, wait, he left the phone here?
And I'm out there somewhere.
Yeah.
And my old Ford Taurus.
Because that can't be traced either.
My 92 Ford Taurus, which I still own.
And I got my burner phone.
And none of you can get me.
Well, David can call me.
And I have your number too.
And Jeff has it.
Where are you going to go?
What are you going to do?
I'm just going to go off the grid.
But what does that even mean?
Does that mean like to a hotel?
It means Santa Monica.
Oh, okay.
All right.
Six miles from my home.
But you're also very recognizable.
So people will like see you and maybe someone who knows Liza will just be like.
I have a baseball cap that says not Conan.
Okay.
That should work.
That's a good disguise.
That'll be good.
Who would be the first person to flip on you if Liza pressed them?
What do you mean?
All of us.
On your burner phone.
All of us.
They would all.
All of us.
They're all allied with my wife.
Yeah.
Every single person.
I can't think of anyone who wouldn't.
There's not one person who would take my side over Liza's side.
Everybody.
Everybody.
Everybody.
Yeah.
Prefers.
We'd be like Santa Monica before she even asked us.
The exact location.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like he's eating here.
He's having a lobster.
Isn't it kind of nice, though, not to be obsessed with looking at your phone?
No, it is good.
And I did it because I had just read an article in The New York Times where someone said it helps break your addiction to your phone if you have a flip phone and actually recommended this brand of flip phone.
And that's why I got it.
And I do find, if you have the security of knowing, like here, I can call these key people and find out what's going on.
Yeah.
I really like not being tempted to look at the text, not being tempted to look at the emails.
Can you tell us?
Maybe they'll send us a bunch.
No, I think that would be immoral.
What?
You were like set on it, too.
It was like a Saturday and you were like, I want this now.
I want a flip phone.
Yeah, you know what?
You know when you get an... I don't know if everyone's like this.
When I get an idea, I want to... Yeah.
Let's get this done, David.
Yeah.
And then I drove down there.
I wanted to go pick it up.
Yeah.
I was excited.
Went to a couple places.
And I'm still excited.
I love this little guy.
He's cute.
And it goes... Yeah.
Oh, that's my other favorite thing.
Yeah.
Is when a conversation's over, I try to be argumentative at the end of the conversation.
Just flip it.
Just so I can flip... So I can snap it shut.
So I'll be getting along perfectly well with whoever...
And then I'll say, I know you're embezzling from me.
And they'll say, wait, what?
You're a robber and you know it.
And then I just click it shut.
Yeah.
Snap.
That's cool.
It's great.
It's such a great way to end a conversation.
Flip phones, bring them back into your life, says Conan.
Yeah, I'm actually inspired to get one.
Aren't they like making smart flip phones?
I don't want a smart flip phone.
Yeah, I want no email.
Oh, they also are making, there's a phone now that unfolds and you basically unfold it and it becomes like a computer screen.
Yeah.
I mean, things are getting weird.
I say go flip phone.
That's what I say.
Also, aren't the kids and I don't know this, but David, you're the closest connection to youth.
Aren't they rejecting smartphones in favor of they're called dumb phones in favor of dumb phones?
I don't know.
Yeah.
You asked the wrong.
Flip it up.
Yeah.
What's the what's the slogan?
Hey, so are you saying that flip town?
Guess what?
Accidentally.
I love that.
And accidentally, I did something.
My instinct was to do something that all the young people were doing.
You flipped it up.
Yeah.
Well, I don't think that's it.
You went to flip town.
No, I flip flopped.
You're flipping it.
The flip flop isn't good because a flop means it didn't go well.
I'm trying to, I came up with a good slogan for it.
Just say flip town.
Don't give me any of your flip-flip.
Anyway, that's the new me.
And if you get it hey, anyone listening right now.
If you get what you think is a spam call, pick it up.
It might be me calling you.
Your camera's here.
Oh, there's my camera.
Yeah.
Peace out.
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian, and Matt Gorley.
Produced by me, Matt Gorley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao.
Theme song by The White Stripes.
Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.
Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair.
And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.
Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.
Additional production support by Mars Melnick.
Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn.
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