Chris Appleton EXCLUSIVE: “I Thought My Kids Would Be Better Off Without Me” Opening up About The Darkest Night of His Life and What FINALLY Gave Him The Courage to Live Authentically | On Purpose with Jay Shetty

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Avocado, dream of better. I felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay.

It's not something I've ever spoken about.

Chris Appleton is a hairstylist to the stars.

Including Jennifer Lopez, Kim Kardashian, Dua Lipa, When did you realise that you couldn't stop hiding who you really were?

I came out at 26 and a lot of people said to me, well, you must have already known, like, and just hid it.

And I wasn't aware that I did know. Being a gay child, I learned to hide myself.

When I did hair, there was this whole thing about sexuality and it's like, oh, you're gay.

Being gay must be bad because people are, you know, they weren't saying it in a nice way, like, you're gay.

They were like, you're gay. It was you who filed for divorce.

Everything you've been through, I can imagine that's not easy.

Just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something.

People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid.

I was going through a lot of private pain.

What really helped me was not being okay.

You write about the night that you tried to end your life.

I closed my eyes and this is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore.

We reached out to the kids. They sent us a note for you.

Oh God, I don't know what to say. The number one health and wellness podcast.

Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only, Jay Shetty.

Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose.

Thank you so much for tuning into the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed.

Every guest I sit down with has been on an incredible healing journey, whether it's their mind, their emotions, or even their soul.

And today's guest is someone who's been on an unexpected internal journey because their life is so public and external.

Today's guest is Chris Appleton, a renowned celebrity hairstylist, best known for creating iconic looks for the likes of Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, Ariana Grande, and so many more.

Chris is the global creative director for Color Wow Hair and a social media sensation with over 7 million followers.

His work is regularly featured in Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, Elle, and InStyle.

In his debut book, Your Roots Don't Define You, Chris opens up about identity, transformation, and self-worth.

So I want you to support Chris. Go and pre-order it right now.

Please welcome to On Purpose, Chris Appleton.

Chris. Thank you so much, Jay. It's great to have you here.

Great to finally be here. I mean, we have bumped into each other in a million places.

Absolutely. Whether it Different cities.

Different cities, gyms in Miami, Paris, LA.

And I've always been an admirer of you and your work from the outside.

You work with incredible people. They have so much love and respect for you.

But I have to be honest and say that when I read the book, I have a different level of respect for you that came from this book because I can see you really want to help people.

And I can see that you want to use your journey as a way of supporting other people's journeys.

And I find that fascinating because you don't really know that when you follow someone on Instagram or see them.

So I'm glad that we get to pull back the curtain on your life and understand you more.

No, absolutely. I think there's so much about that that we make an assumption of people by social media or just what we see because it's surface level.

And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think it's so nice to be able to get to know more and just know some of the magic of how things are done and how everyone else can have a part of that.

And that's what I hope with the book, that people feel like they can have a part of that and help make that comeback.

Yeah. And it's so nice to sit with another man from England and think about the crazy journey.

We just realized we both moved to the States nine years ago.

I have no regrets. What about you? No, me too.

I love it here. It's been amazing to me.

It's been so good to me. I feel like it's been good to you as well.

Absolutely. And I'm a Londoner at heart always through and through, but... there's a beauty to living here.

Yeah. I mean, there's so many nice things when you go home.

Like I just went back and the chocolate, I just always loved the chocolate.

It's a little sweeter, a little bit more of a sweet tooth.

A bit milkier. In England, exactly. Yeah.

And just some of those richer things. I just like dairy milk, the whole milk, dairy milk.

Yeah. But I'm always, I'm like sitting in the stores, like just looking at all of the, I remember pickled onion crisp and I was like, oh my God, you don't know what, yeah, exactly.

All the things. But no, it's fun to go back, but LA is definitely home now.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, Chris, I wanted to ask you something that I often ask a lot of guests, because I think I'm always fascinated by how who we were places imprints on us into who we become.

And I wanted to ask you, do you have a childhood experience that you remember that you think has defined who you are today?

An experience or a memory that you have that you feel had some coding into who you've become today?

You know, it's funny you say that because I have a very distinct memory.

But for a long time, it was a really sad one.

But the more I've understood that memory, the more I realized it was kind of where I was at in my life.

And it's sad because I guess it was a memory at the age of...

I was maybe sort of eight or nine years old.

And I remember looking outside the window.

I come from a big family in the UK. I'm one of five.

We were really working class, if not poor.

We didn't have many luxuries. And life was real.

It was very different to LA and sunshine.

It was rainy and gray. And I remember sort of looking out the window, and I felt like...

I didn't really belong. I knew I felt different.

I knew there was something different. Like my brothers enjoyed doing football and sports and my sisters like doing girls things.

Like, I don't know, they were playing with barbies or braiding hair.

And I kind of fell somewhere in the middle.

I didn't really feel like I fit in. I was a middle child also.

And I remember just looking out and I felt quite alone.

And I think that was the beginning of me kind of abandoning myself in a way to fit in, to fit in with what I think people around me thought I should be or who I was told to be.

So that memory was in one way, it's very motivational now.

Now I know what it meant because I can kind of go back to that moment.

And I've learned that during therapy and sort of being able to like connect with that inner child, which for so long I ignored.

But I think for me, it was a real special moment that I go back to because you can kind of change You can change what you came from.

And that's a lot about what the book's about.

It's about how your roots don't define you.

And it really is about, you know, we all grow up being told to be something or be someone, or we have influences around us, which kind of lead us into a certain part of our lives.

And sometimes we stop and look in the mirror and don't recognize how we got there.

Mm-hmm. let alone how we look. You know, sometimes I've worked with clients and I'll say, you've got short, dark hair and bangs.

Why is that? And it's like, well, it's just what I've always had.

I don't know. We either thought about going lighter and longer.

No, not really. Why not? Well, just because that's not what, They kind of then stop and go, well, why have I never thought that?

Because no one had given them freedom to.

And a lot about what my job was about is really kind of opening people up.

It really starts on the outside as a visual, but then once you start going internal with things and breaking down these kind of boundaries, it's really quite magical what can happen.

And that in a nutshell is kind of what I've always done, gone that little bit deeper.

And I guess going back to that childhood memory really helps me kind of remember that that your roots really don't define you and you do have a chance to start again, it's never too late.

Yeah, it's such an interesting connection that you made there because most people wouldn't see that.

You wouldn't think that something aesthetic like that about yourself is so deep rooted, but it is.

And all these limitations and blocks and all this conditioning that we all have, whether it's about who you can become, how much money you can make, who you're meant to be in the world.

And for you, you fell in love with the hair quite early, right?

Yeah. That was something you discovered.

Really early. What was the discovery of it?

I think it was honestly the first time I felt good at something.

I was pretty young. I was maybe like nine, 10 years old.

It's a similar age where I was dyslexics and I really knew and knew what that was then.

So you were kind of just told you were stupid.

I remember I used to sit in the classes and I was like, please someone answer the question.

Cause I did not know what he was going on about.

When I sort of started to paint, I noticed I got like a reaction.

And then when I started to use my hands and do hair and which was my mum at the time, I realised you had this ability to sort of change the way people felt.

I really liked that. I loved that you could transform people.

I was really mesmerised by that. But I noticed people reacted different.

And I felt like that was almost like a superpower.

So I just thought, I'm going to be the best at it.

If this is what I'm good at, I'll be the best at it.

And I'll prove everyone wrong that I'm not stupid.

And again, just being conditioned to... I mean, I was pretty bullied at school because of that.

And then when I did Hair... there was this whole thing about sexuality.

And it's like, oh, you're gay. Because no one back then did hair.

No one had a job at 13. And doing hair was, you know, stereotypically where I grew up, people, you know, said, okay, well, you're gay.

And that was before I really even understood sexuality.

I didn't even really consider it. I was just a young guy having a great time.

You know, when you're a kid, you just, you're free.

You know, it's great. It's such a good feeling.

And then the harsh reality of life slaps you around the face one day.

And I remember sort of things like, well, that's bad.

Like being gay must be bad because people are, they weren't saying it in a nice way.

Like, you're gay. They were like, you're gay, you know. people would like spit on you.

And I mean, it was bad. I got bullied quite aggressively.

And I think that really led me to push and I guess push away from myself.

That's I think when the curtain started to come down and I really abandoned myself because I started to become a version of myself that I thought other people wanted to see.

So talk a little bit more masculine, stand more masculine.

You know, you start to become very aware of your mannerisms and, doing hair was feminine.

So I kind of kept it to myself and I just kept my head down.

I didn't want to tell people about it. And it's really sad because I think being a gay child, I learned to hide myself.

I learned to hide the parts of myself that were authentic.

And I adapted myself into being something that I thought other people wanted me to be.

And as an adult, what you have to do is then unpick those parts and find out what were the parts that are actually me and the parts that I created for other people.

And as much as anything, I'll go back to the book, like there is stories about my life and as reflection, but it's really about helping people to get back to theirs and unpick it as well.

Because sometimes it takes a bit of that work.

And that work can be brutal. It's not the easiest work I've ever done, but I would say the most rewarding for sure.

Yeah, I like the way you drew that, that when you reflect on your past, you've got to pick apart the parts that you made for yourself and the parts that you made for others.

That's such a great way of looking at it.

And everyone has that. You know, if you grow up into a family of religion or if you grow into a family of different beliefs and cultures, you tend to take them on.

Even relationships, you know, we look at relationships of like, that's how mom and dad interact.

And you kind of carry that throughout your life.

And it's not until you get into relationships as an adult and you're like, oh, you can do it differently, you know?

And they're all the lessons we learn as adults.

But not everyone is like, I guess, aware of that.

Not everyone is aware that you can change the story.

And there's a real freedom to doing that.

Yeah, I want to go down two paths based on what you said.

But the first path, before we go down the other, because the other will lead to more... different opportunities to talk about.

But the first part is, you said you wanted to become the best.

As soon as you discovered that you could do hair, you were like, I'm going to become really good at this.

What did it take to become the best? at what you do, because you are, you work with the best, you're considered the best by the people that you serve.

What did that take? Because I think often when we look at athletes or you look at business, there's people who've told those stories, but when you take something as artistic as that, we don't necessarily think about it in the same way.

Totally. At least publicly, even though it's such an important part of daily life that everyone has, right?

And so I want you to walk me through, like, what was that process like?

Like, what did that take? What did that look like?

I think I just was... so determined not to be stupid, not to be deemed as bad or different that I really wanted to be good at something.

And like I say, it's kind of a double-edged sword because it motivated me to want to do better.

And my focus really was to just get on it as fast as I could.

And I just... it put everything I had into hair.

Like I got a job at the age of 13 and I just, at a salon.

Yeah. And I remember my first day, I remember it very clear.

I remember, I remember standing against the wall and I saw people walking one way and I saw them then walk out another way once they had the hair done.

And I swear they were standing a little taller and that, you know, their shoulders went back and I was like, this is good.

I love this. And I was like, I want to do that.

I remember literally thinking, this is what I'm going to do.

And, uh, um I just like every aspect of hair and if I didn't know how to do it I'd find out you know I mean eventually as my career progressed and I became top sort of hair stylist I then was like well what's outside of this so I'd look outside and it's always a thing called editorial hair and there's fashion shows and there's and every every kind of block was like a beginning again because no one really kind of like if you're a salon hairdresser you're just a salon hairdresser you can't be a fashion hairdresser you know they kind of Yeah, people like to bucket you.

Yeah, totally. It's like, you know, people love to put you in a box.

All my life, people love to put me in a box.

Still to today, I'm always trying to fight being put out of a box.

I don't know if you can relate to that. I can so relate.

I think a lot of people just love to put you where they know you can stay.

And I just push myself to know every aspect.

And if I didn't know what it was, I remember, for example...

I eventually got an editorial job and they wanted a look that I just didn't know how to do.

And I just got in a car. I took myself to this local salon and she did this.

It was like this weaving technique. It's called a basket weave.

And I would sit there and watch her and just pay this woman to sit and watch.

And I'd sit with her doll's head up all night.

I don't know. I think I just went above and beyond.

I loved what I did. I still love what I do.

And I think that combined with, again, a bit of a blessing and a curse, like a little bit of an OCD mentality where, I wanted it to be good and I could see things.

I don't just let things go. I can see every detail and every little hair.

And I think that combined and just the passion to want to be good at something just pushed me.

And it's funny now because it's only now, I'm 42, and I look back at videos.

I recently just put some things on social media because... someone came from the UK with a big box of DVDs.

And even I forgot what I did to get to where I've got.

Every competition I did and I didn't win and failed.

And every, you know, educational thing that I failed because of my dyslexia, I just kept bouncing back.

And the nose, I had people laughing at my face.

You know, I remember eventually I got an agent and I was so excited about the next steps and they'd laugh at me.

They were like, you know, you just need to stay where you are and keep it real.

And they'd send me on a photo shoot for some flip-flop commercial.

I just, I didn't care. I was just determined.

And I think you have to have that resilience along the way.

I think you really have to have that internal resilience to stay focused.

And it's not, it was never one thing. It was just lots of little leapfrog moments.

Everyone thinks it's this big moment. It really isn't.

It's just a build. But I would say one of my best, biggest secrets to success in that area was just to be consistent I stayed consistent and when I got knocked down I got back up when I carried on and I tried to learn by every mistake as I went along you know if I if I failed I was like why did I fail and that person went why did that person get it and I didn't I would look and analyze the situation and come back yeah and I think that's a lot of what it takes.

Yeah, absolutely. It's good advice. It's also good to hear that there's no industry in which you just one day get a call from the biggest star in the world.

It's like everyone's earned their stripes and done the work and it's good to hear about it, whether it's podcasting, whether it's hair, whether it's music and athletes that we've had, it's always that.

You always hear that same story. But going back to England and talking about the derogatory use of the term gay.

I mean, I went to a boys' school and I think about all the guys at my school that got so bullied because we went to a boys' school as well.

And now when I look at how many guys in my school were gay, but never came out until years later, some of them at university, some of them much later than that, And I'm just like, wow, they never even had the opportunity because they thought immediately that if they were to say that at our school, they were going to get bullied for it.

And so I get how real that was at that time, especially.

And of course there are still parts of the world where that's still the case.

But how early were you sure about that being part of your identity and were you consciously masking it?

Or was it still a discovery of your identity?

Or was it like, oh, I know that's true and I'm going to hide it now, as you said, you had to abandon yourself.

Or was it like, I don't really know what that is and I'm discovering and figuring it out.

How was it for you? Yeah, I get asked this a lot.

It took me a while to understand because in the beginning, I didn't know myself.

I came out at 26 and all the people said to me, well, you must have already known and just hit it.

And I wasn't aware that I did know. And I'll tell you now, Jay, the brain is such a powerful tool and shame is such a powerful tool.

And when I think back to that eight-year-old kid that just felt different and I had to hide it, I feel so sad for that little guy because...

I really did abandon myself. And I think I just, I shut it out.

I didn't even allow myself to think about it.

It was before sexuality, I was even thinking about having sex.

So anything like that, I just knew it was bad and I just pushed it away.

So I went through my life, like I said, trying to just be normal.

And as far as I was aware, I was fine. And it's not until you really...

You have these moments where you stop at life.

Life makes you stop sometimes. If you don't choose to stop and look in the mirror, sometimes life makes you stop.

You're losing a family member. It can be anything, but sometimes you have to sit with yourself.

And I don't know that I ever allowed myself to know.

I never had the space to express that. And that's why I'm hoping with the book... that I can help someone that feels not seen and someone that is going through a hard time or someone that is successful but miserable when they get home because I never got that opportunity.

And finding that makes such a difference.

It makes a difference in the job you do, the relationships you have, the friendships you have, and just generally who you are as a person.

I think that's what people don't realize.

I love that point you just made that it actually impacts all other parts of your self-expression.

Oh, it's crazy. Because it is your identity.

It's crazy. It's who you are. And so if you're hiding that part, you're hiding all these other skills and talents and abilities.

I know because one of my closest friends came out when he was 30.

Yeah. And he grew up in a Muslim background.

And so that was extremely hard for him because of the religious pressure and it was such a journey for him.

And he thinks about who he became after that age.

And it's almost like everything went in his favor after that.

Whereas up until that point, it always felt like everything was working against him.

But he, like you, also felt that he had to hide and not be honest with himself.

Yeah. I think my whole life changed when I authentically... And it took a few years to get to that point.

It took therapy. It took understanding. It took being with myself.

But part of that was moving to LA. And I think...

The great thing about moving to LA was I didn't feel any shame because I'm also a dad and I hold that very close to my heart.

My biggest focus in life is being a great dad to two kids and any parent out there can connect to that.

I will always put them before myself. The difficulty with shame is it's very difficult to heal when I wasn't just feeling my shame, I was feeling shame for them.

I was feeling shame... Yeah, I felt a lot of shame.

And moving to America, the part of it that became easier is because an introduction could be like, hey, I'm Chris.

And it's like, I'm gay, you know, and no one blinks an eyelid.

But where I grew up in the town where people knew me, hey, I'm Chris.

And it's like, I didn't feel confident to say I was gay.

And if I did, they'd be like, oh, he used to be, he's got a family, he's got kids.

Oh my God. You know, and there was always this secret, this conversation.

It was just this, it felt dark still. It still felt like people wanted to keep putting me back in the box.

So, you know, it was kind of part of moving to America was the first time that I could experience what it was really like to come out without all of the outside noise because I'd already made a life for myself.

And, you know, I get it. When there's a secret, people want to talk.

People love to, you know, when there's a secret, people want to know the answer to it.

Yeah. Talk to me about that time in your life, because when you started dating the mother of your children and that experience, you were married for what, like 10 years?

Nine years. Nine years. Yeah. So it's a long period of time.

We were never married, but we were, yeah, nine years.

Yeah. I mean, it was amazing. I generally believe I was meant to meet Kate.

We were together for nine years and it was magical nine years.

It was great. I had two kids and I honestly thought I had it all figured out.

I remember out of the weekend, I'd be doing...

I'd be doing the man's thing. I'd be painting the fence.

I'd be fixing things. I was just doing all the things that I thought I was supposed to do as a man.

And when I did realize I was gay, I mean, God, it came crashing down.

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And back to our episode. What do you think it was about that moment that allowed you to be conscious that you were?

Like you said, for so long, you were hiding it.

You were suppressing it. You were putting it aside.

You're doing all the quote unquote things you're meant to do as a man.

What was it that brought that up for you when you felt like, like you just said, you felt like you'd figured it all out.

You're two beautiful kids you loved, you know, a partner that you loved.

Because from the age of eight to the age of 27, I'd held my breath and I could finally exhale.

I couldn't hold my breath anymore. I couldn't do it.

I tried. I kept trying to like, and I couldn't.

And once I put my tiptoes into breathing and how good that felt, I couldn't stop it.

But then came the shame of like, well, I'm going to hurt all these people I've created this life with.

So I kept pulling back until I just had to let go.

How long did you carry that shame of, I know, but I don't want to tell them because it will hurt them and break what they've built?

Once I knew, I had an experience, which I talk a bit about in the book, and it wasn't anything heavy.

But when I was a kid, I was sat down. I grew up in northern England.

There wasn't middle to north, and it was kind of – being gay wasn't really a thing.

There was a gay pub in town, but it was on the outskirts, and the men that went were quite flamboyant.

It wasn't really – spoken about Princess Diana was on the news shaking a man with AIDS without gloves and that was headline news because you know they're like could she get AIDS from shaking this man's hand people didn't know enough about it and they knew about AIDS and it was kind of told to me that gay men get AIDS

So I was also fearful of that. Someone that's prone to OCD, like I just felt very conscious of that.

So I had an experience that I kind of met someone, we became friends, and it never really went beyond friendship.

But he told me one day that he was HIV positive.

I remember he didn't even live near me. We had a phone call conversation daily, but I became friends with him.

And it was the first time that I was kind of like, I like this guy.

Like, I really like... like him and I kind of was trying to understand it so it was a slow process and then he told me he had HIV and I was like well I can't I'm good I'm absolutely good so I literally just cut it off and even though I hadn't done anything I felt like oh my god could I get HIV is this a thing I don't know it was really really scary and then I guess over the process of the next year I think once like I say you kind of put your foot in the water it was just uh it was hard to go back and then once I actually did meet someone yeah that was it there was there was no going back that period of your life I can imagine is when you look back at it now, it's probably one of the most difficult times because it's almost like... No, it got way harder.

Yeah. Which we'll get to, but that moment of...

I can finally be honest with myself, but I don't know how to be honest with the people that I love.

There's one thing of like, oh wow, I can finally be honest with myself.

That's huge. But then it's always harder when you're trying to express it to other people, I imagine.

What was it like telling your partner at the time?

I told initially my partner and that was a process.

And I also had to respect that she needed to go through her own grief.

Were you aware of that at the time when you told her?

Yeah. Wow, that's mature. Because I loved her.

I really loved her. And I didn't want to be gay.

I didn't want to be different. I went back to being the kid at school.

But... Once I told her, I kind of just went on automatic.

I told my family and everyone needed to process it the way they needed to process it.

And I just had to be respectful of that.

You have to let people go through their own grief.

I can't control their emotions, nor do I want to.

I think it's really important for people to feel and go through the process.

But the hardest part was telling my kids.

And I think mentally for me, I couldn't really ever get my head around that.

I've never actually spoke about this. I didn't think I ever would, but I do feel ready.

I feel ready to talk to people because I feel like hopefully it will help someone else that's going through a difficult time.

But my job as a dad, I felt was to protect my kids.

Going through what I went through as a kid, being bullied was horrible.

My childhood was, a lot of memories are not great ones.

So the idea of bringing that to my kids It was really painful to feel that they would get bullied because their dad was gay.

I know the things that kids say and I know how mean they can be.

And I just didn't want them to ever have that shame that was put on me onto them.

And in a way, I felt like a disease. I felt like it was like a cancer.

I wanted to clear it out of me. I was like, if I could just get rid of that, then I could just be a normal dad for them.

Because that's what they need. I felt so selfish putting myself first.

So eventually people started to talk. As they do, it was a small town and me and Kate decided to tell the kids.

So I couldn't even say the words. And I think maybe a lot of people can relate to this.

Initially saying the words, I'm gay is a challenge because once those words are out, it's done.

I actually didn't say it. The mother of Kate's mom actually said it.

And then I just saw these two beautiful kids who were like six and eight and they were just, they were upset because they knew I was upset and they were confused.

And all of a sudden I just felt like I'd, I felt like I just messed their life up.

And I felt like I'd failed as a dad because I, My job was to protect them.

And if anyone ever hurt them, I would protect them.

But I was the one hurting them. And I couldn't understand that.

I also just couldn't hide I was gay anymore.

I was so exhausted from it. So after telling them, just the confusion killed me.

And my son said to me, you know, does that mean you're going to have your arm like this?

Because he was so young and innocent and kids at school would do, there was already things said, you know?

And I was like, no, you know, I'm just me.

I'm the same. I'm not going to change. But are you going to change?

Are you going to be different? Yeah, I kind of just shut down.

And I left. And I left not because I was three, but I left because I felt so much shame.

And I got in the car. I drove for a couple of hours.

I drove for quite a long time. It felt like five minutes.

I just felt like I needed to get away from them.

I felt like I was contagious. And I... Sorry, I've not really spoke about this before, so.

You don't need to be sorry. Take your time.

Yeah, so I felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay.

And so I brought some painkillers. I brought a bottle of alcohol and I checked myself into a hotel.

And the whole time I had a picture of the kids.

It was like this computer case I had and they're smiling on it.

They wrote a message on it. It was silly.

It was just a little computer case, but I was just holding it the whole time.

I'd slept with it a lot throughout that period.

I just wanted to protect them. And I took the tablets and drank the alcohol.

I ran Kate and I apologized for the pain that I'd caused.

And I closed my eyes and I just thought, this is it.

This is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore.

I won't bring any more pain. And maybe I'll stop hurting too.

The rest was a blur. I remember sirens and stuff.

And I just then remember being in hospital and I could hear voices.

And I remember thinking, is this it? Where am I?

And something changed then. And it was really powerful because I realized I couldn't hate myself anymore. than I had, and I couldn't try and stop being gay anymore.

I'd done everything with my power to spend my whole life creating a different world that I thought everyone wanted me to be and take all the boxes, but I knew I had to reveal the truth.

And so in that moment, it was really quiet.

It wasn't dramatic, but I just remember thinking, well, What about if I just surrender?

What about if I'm just gay and I just be that?

And I don't really know where to begin with it.

And I don't know where it's going to lead me.

But it has to be better than what I've been doing.

And in that moment, something changed. I decided to live.

And I think that's the moment where I went back to that eight-year-old boy standing at the window and allowed himself to be seen.

That was the beginning of it all, really.

So although it was one of the darkest nights of my life, I think it was a turning point.

And like I say, it's not something I take lightly.

I think it's not something I've ever spoken about, but I hope other people in watching this can maybe feel heard or seen and find the help they need.

Or even maybe it's a parent that is struggling understanding their child to understand how dark it can be when you're left in silence and when you don't get to express who you truly are. or even if it's the kid that did the bullying at school and see how painful it can really be for someone.

Yeah, Chris, thank you for sharing that because it's... I just didn't feel like I could write a book Talking about my story, I think there's this perception of me that people see on social media.

And it looks like I have my life together.

It looks like I look pretty polished. I think people tell me that, you know, I mean, I work with amazing women, you know, and life looks glamorous.

And from the outside, it probably looks like I've got it all together.

But there's a very different side. And that's what I want to talk to people about.

And that's what I want to help people with.

And it's not just about my journey. It's about helping people realize theirs.

Yeah, no, I really appreciate you sharing it because we're seeing now suicide rise.

Yeah. We know that carrying around emotions like shame and guilt for long periods of time is not healthy for someone, even if they don't, you know, try to commit suicide.

And I think having people like yourself who've been there, who are open enough to share how you get there and it's needed right now.

It's needed right now. Help a lot of men, a lot of people, but definitely a lot of men right now who need it as well.

And I think also just like stereotypes and boxes that we love to put people in.

It's like, you don't have to fit a particular mold.

I think you are who you are and you should have time and space to develop that and what it is.

And, and, I'm someone that spent my life trying to avoid that.

And then I had to do the really painful part of unpicking it and finding out what I'd created for everyone else and what was truly me.

When I did that, there was a piece to it.

Were you relieved when you woke up in the hospital?

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I ever wanted to die.

I wanted to kill the thing that I felt that was destructing my life.

And the thing that made me feel different as a kid, the thing that made me not blend in with all the other boys and girls, like I wasn't like all the regular guys and I wanted to not be different.

Now I love being different. You know, as an adult now, I've realized the beauty in being different is such a special thing to be able to have that talent, to be different, to let it grow.

And when it's not suppressed, my God, like the whole world can change.

My whole world really did change. And it can be such a beautiful thing.

And I'm not talking about success. I'm talking about inner happiness.

And there's a lot of successful people out there and they're not happy.

You know, a lot of people, some unsuccessful people and they're not happy.

I think true happiness on the inside is really, I don't know, it's a really powerful tool.

How did your family react to obviously coming to the hospital with the kids?

Like now it was almost like there was in that time the first shock that you're gay.

And then there's this shock of nearly losing you or there being a critical situation.

How did you, how did Katie, the kids and family react?

I don't think there was really ever an understanding.

I don't think anyone really knew. I think everyone was just trying to get through it because everyone was trying to process it themselves.

I think everyone had questions and everyone's like, well, did he always know?

And like, was that my fault? And did I say something when he was a kid?

And when I told him about like gay men and sexuality, and I think a lot of people were questioning, I don't know, did they know, did they see something?

And I think everyone was just trying to process something.

It didn't really matter to me in terms of like, that was the time I came back to myself.

So there was, there was a change in my brain where I really just was like, I'm going to allow myself to be, and I'm going to be respectful of everyone else.

And I'm going to be supportive because it's just who I am, but I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to be, I'm going to allow Chris to be, and I'm a gay man and that's it.

And I imagine at that time, the shame that had been hanging over, obviously the kids went back to school.

They were now hearing the same stuff. It's almost like you said, everyone wants the answer to the secret.

Now the secret's out. Totally. People love a secret.

People love gossip. You know, I get it. Like we all do it.

Everyone loves it. Oh, what did you hear?

You know, but I think once the secret's out, people are like, oh, well, you know, it's just not as exciting.

It's like, all right, well. And so you felt that kind of, you were able to move on from it too.

Absolutely. And listen, it wasn't an overnight sense.

Of course not. It was just a mental change for me.

I still had to go through the process. What was that process like?

Because it's like, like you said, you bottled it up for that many years.

It comes out in this extremely dark way for you personally.

Shame, guilt. Thankfully, you're still alive.

Yeah. But what did that process actually look like?

Because like you just said, and I don't want anyone to... hear this and go, yeah, oh, wow, one night just changed.

I don't want them to have that perspective either because that isn't true from the book.

And I'm excited for people to read. I'm encouraging people to read the book because I think when they engage with it and you're sharing of it, they'll get the context that you won't be able to realize like this wasn't an overnight change.

It wasn't a one night switch. But walk me through the process you had to go through over the next few months and years to rebuild because you said you almost came home to yourself.

But then you had to build this new house.

Like anything, starting anything new, it's the unknown.

And so I think I took every day as it came, every hour as it came.

I've always been a big believer in therapy.

I think it's so helpful to be able to. And I also think it's something that if someone is struggling, that if you can and you have the resources to, you should use because I think it's a really healthy way of being able to be and really be in the moment and really feel things.

And I think working with therapists to try and understand, even making sure my kids were okay with them seeing a therapist and Kate did, you know, I think everyone was on their own journey.

But personally, for me, it was just taking every day as it came.

And there were good days and there were bad days.

And there were days I still felt really shameful.

And there were days I didn't feel so shameful.

But I think as with anything, and when you're grieving something, and I really was grieving a loss because I was grieving the loss of who I used to be.

And so in a way it was like a death because I was letting go of that.

I was letting go of this image that I created, this man that I'd created.

And what came with that man, the family.

Exactly. And so then I had to, you don't have it all figured out.

I'll be honest with you though, Jay. I still don't have it all figured out.

I wake up every day and I'm still figuring out.

I think as humans we are. I'm grateful for that because that means I'm always learning and I'm always growing.

And if I'm growing, then that makes me feel happy because I'm alive.

You know, no one ever has it all figured out. me too I fully agree I don't I mean people think because you've got a book or because you've had some success at work or you know you got it all figured out no one's got it all figured out yeah but I think for me I've always been really interested in other people's journeys and inspiration and Understanding how someone else took on.

And listen, my journey is not for everyone.

Everyone's different and everyone has their own journey.

But sometimes you can just take something from it.

And for me, that's why I did the book was I was trying to help people come back to themselves.

And I don't think I can do that if I'm not telling them my story.

To say, I had a really dark moment too. A lot of people have had dark moments.

I agree, yeah. But it's brave and important to share it.

And it's one of the reasons why I've been talking about the difference between Western and Eastern ideologies because in the West you have this before and after.

So it's like, I used to be like this, now I'm healed, I'm fit, I'm amazing.

And the reality is the Eastern worldview would say everything's cyclical.

You're always two steps forward, three steps back.

100%. You're always maintaining. You're always sustaining.

You don't just, it's almost like you don't just end up with a six pack.

It's like that's something that takes daily work.

One week is there and the next week I'm like, what happened?

Yeah. And that's something that's physical that you can see and it's tangible.

100%. What to speak of emotional grieving and growth.

And so that idea of before and after, it doesn't really exist.

It's like before what and after what? 100%.

The reality is you're constantly growing, each and every one of us, and me included too.

I think even with the work I do, I definitely carry that baggage sometimes of people thinking I'm teaching from the place of perfection.

Right. And you've got it all figured out.

Yeah. It's like, actually, I'm trying to do the opposite.

I'm just trying to be a friend who's nudging you in the right direction.

Yeah. By the way, I do this as much for you as I do it for me.

Because the more I talk about these ideas, the more, and I'm sure you felt that with your book, the more you're talking about these ideas, the more responsible you feel to actually live them and breathe them for yourself.

And honestly, I feel like if there was something like this when I was a kid, when I was an eight-year-old kid or 12-year-old kid at school, and I heard someone maybe talking about that experience, probably could have saved me going in the direction I did and made other choices, you know, but that's life.

I'm doing some research for my new book right now, and I was researching the, I was speaking to the head of suicide at Harvard.

And he told me two things that stayed with me.

One was that one of his friends committed suicide even though he knew his friend was the head of suicide at Harvard and never told him anything.

And so it just shows how hard it is to even talk about it with someone even though your friend is an expert yeah and so just because you're a therapist or a coach or a guide or it's not easy for people to open up about these things no i've found it incredibly difficult to sort of just talk about it but i hope that in doing so that it will help someone else and it's not to say any of the things i've done are right or wrong but it was my journey and it led me to where i'm at now and i think if you can take some of the shame away from people struggling in life.

And, you know, I think someone like me where people perceive me to have it all figured out, maybe to know that I've not, and there's been some really hard times in my life, enables people to be able to talk about theirs too and feel free to be able to express them at that.

And there isn't so much shame around it.

Yeah, it doesn't make you weak. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it doesn't make you weak that you're having a tough time right now or you're struggling to pay the bills or you're struggling to take care of the family you love.

And everyone's challenge is different, you know, and that's the beautiful thing of life.

Did any men come back from your childhood over time that you feel reconciled their relationship with you or talk to you about it differently?

You mean like the bullies or whatever? Bullies or even, yeah, bullies, family, like anyone that you think... was negligent maybe or unaware at that time?

Did you ever have any good conversations with any men as life went on?

My brother actually, actually recently, we were very different.

He was in a very different place in his life.

And I was just a kid trying to grow up. You know, he was a good 10 years older than me, maybe 12 years, he was 12 years older than me.

He actually met me in London. I was there for some shoot and he said, I wanted to meet you.

And I'm like, all right, well, okay. So we met and had dinner and he actually apologized and he sat down and he said, you know, I was really shit to you.

I was really shitty, brother. And I don't think I realized how much pain you were in.

And I think he was in his own pain. Because everyone's got their own journey.

And, you know, I found forgiveness in that.

I found forgiveness. And it was actually really, really special.

Like I say, that's what I mean. It wasn't an overnight thing.

This is literally 10 years later. My brother's apologizing.

But I also... I'm mature enough and I've done the work enough to recognize that he was going through a difficult time.

He used drugs and he was going through his own thing, but you know, his sort of acknowledgement of that still stopped me in my tracks and was like, yeah, that was tough, but I forgive you.

And I think forgiveness is also a beautiful thing and letting go and moving on.

Yeah. I like to move on. I like to go right through something and, and then let it go.

And I think that's a beautiful thing. It's brutal.

It's really hard. So easy to avoid. So many people avoid stuff.

Complete avoid and completely just let's pretend it's not happening.

But for me, what works is to really feel it and sit in it because then I feel like I can let it go.

Yeah, I mean, it's really mature to have that worldview of recognizing that everyone's going through their journey and their pain at the same time as you are.

And it's really hard to compare pains because...

You can't. They're all so unique. And everyone's valid.

Everyone's got their own journey. But to accept that requires a lot of maturing depth.

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How does it feel now that you've said it out loud and talked about it?

How does that feel in your chest, heart, mind?

I mean, probably as you could tell as I was talking, I was getting quite tight chest.

If I ever even really talked about it, my chest would get very tight.

I'm grateful for that. I hope I never get used to it because it was a very extreme experience. thing in my life and I'm an emotional guy I love the people I love and but but I've learned not to feel shame anymore and I think part of dealing with shame is being able to talk about it being able to acknowledge it being able to look at it in the mirror and um I felt like sharing that is empowering to me and hopefully others.

I feel lucky to be able to share my journey with other people.

Hopefully, you know, someone finds it interesting or can give them a different perspective on their day and in their life.

And I've done that in like a outward sense of a visual with people know that with my job.

But I think the internal part is just really where it starts.

Because when you marry those together, that's when you have your real power.

I mean, as we've been talking about this in this journey that None of us are perfect and it still shows up.

How does shame still show up in your life today?

Like how does it still have that stronghold in your life today?

I woke up this morning. I'm like, I cannot talk about that.

I can't talk about that on the podcast. Had this complete like panic.

I woke up this morning. I'm like, oh my God, I can't talk.

People are going to think I'm crazy. Like that was a really dark time and it was a secret.

It's a secret. And then I'd stop myself and I'm like, ah, it's a secret.

It doesn't need to be. I'm not that person anymore.

No one is the people that we were in that time.

We've all moved on and evolved. And I'm in a better place in my life now.

And I think with wisdom comes, you know, like you being able to educate people and share people.

That's like me in my hairdressing career, learning all these amazing techniques, keeping them all to myself.

And everyone has said to me before, like, you really want to share your techniques?

People might copy you. And I'm like, God, I hope they do.

I hope they have great hair. You know, everyone deserves it.

I'll think of some new techniques. I'm onto the next thing.

So yeah, I mean, look, we're human beings.

Like I said, none of us have it figured out.

But I also have great people around me that were like Chris.

Remember you're helping others. And I'm like, yeah, that's what I want to do.

As your journey grew, did you share these stories with clients and talk to people that you were close to?

No one really knows this about me, Jay. So I think probably a lot of people might be like, okay, I didn't know that part of you.

Because let's face it, in human interaction, most of the time it's like, hi, how are you?

You look great. And then we move on. We don't always open up the blinds and pull people in because it's difficult to do that.

Even on social media, people say to me, oh, you look like you have this polished social media.

You bring people in more. It's difficult sometimes to do that when it's a camera in front of you.

And I think I've always been very one-on-one.

That's what I do. But that's why I wanted to package it up and put it into something that people could read and take in themselves.

I want to know what happened because this was all still while you were back home in England.

Yeah. And so this isn't even the career journey that we see now.

That hadn't even began then. Yeah. In terms of the public part of it.

How soon after did you end up moving to America and did everything shift?

I stayed in... I moved to America when I was 31, so...

It was four years later. And during that time, I'd started to travel backwards and forwards.

I was kind of commuting backwards and forwards.

I started working with an artist and, you know, they travel around.

I was kind of doing different types of hairdressing work.

I remember I got a call once I was in London and I had an email actually that came through and it was from J-Lo's team.

And I remember thinking, oh. Wow. But it was too much to kind of take in.

I was like, are you available? You know, we wanted to see if Chris Appleton was available for a Vegas show.

And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then I thought, well, how does JLo know who I am?

It was the beginning of social media. And I was posting, not really know what I'm doing, but I was just posting all the different hairstyles I was doing.

So I guess when I look back, my brand quite quickly was apparent.

I was always changing up. I'm not your beachy wave kind of guy.

I like to do a look. do the next one move on that's next I was very excited by her and I was just posting all that so uh I kind of thought well that's cool but I'm in England and that's Hollywood like that's not the land of dreams you know it's far far far away and uh they weren't gonna fly me out so all right well I just left it and I thought maybe this is just like a maybe it's like a fake email You know, you get a lot of random emails.

Hey, did you say, madam, you've won $10,000?

And I'm like, oh, have I? You know, I don't reply to them anymore.

But when I was younger, I used to. So I left it.

And a few months later, I got another email.

I thought, well, maybe this is a thing. Maybe like, maybe I could go to LA.

You know, it seemed like the big shining star.

And I was like, that's where a lot of stars are.

And I loved the excitement. As a kid, I was always really sort of mesmerized by the power of transformation.

Back then it was Madonna, you know, she would have a different look per album.

And I always loved how each look really started a trend.

People would start to wear it in the streets and it was like a whole vibe.

So I thought, well, maybe I'll go to LA.

So I pretty much decided to do it. I packed two suitcases.

I had a whole apartment in London that I'd worked very hard for, a small basement one, but nevertheless, it was mine.

And I packed two suitcases and I moved to LA.

Without even a plan? No. And you didn't have a client contract?

No, nothing. I had a dream. I was like... How many followers did you have at this time?

405,000. Right, right. Oh, wow. So really early days.

Yeah, really early days. But I did have a hope.

And I thought, what's the worst that could happen?

I'll come back if it doesn't work. So I remember I moved to America.

And for the first three or four months, I didn't do anything.

I'd spent all my money. LA is really expensive.

And I remember thinking, I'm going to have to go back home.

And then I got a call to do Christina Aguilera's hair on The Voice, which I speak a little bit about in the book.

It was an experience that didn't go so well.

It was like my one opportunity. And it seemed to go very wrong.

You felt you didn't. It went wrong to go right.

I mean, I was such an excited guy. I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this.

I'm going to do my thing. It's the voice.

Everyone watches the voice. But what you have to understand is when you live in the UK, it's like this many people see it.

When you live in the US, it's like the world sees it.

It just was bigger. Everything was bigger.

And I remember going to the voice and there was like three hours to do glam.

And the makeup artist went in, saw the trailer, and I just sat outside.

So I was like, okay, I'll just wait for a bit.

And an hour went by and I was like, well, maybe she don't need too much done to her hair, you know?

And then two hours went by and I'm like, well, maybe like, The hair's probably done and I'm just going to be finessing it, you know?

And then the last 20 minutes before the live show, I'm like, well, I mean, should I just go home?

And they called me in. So I thought, well, you know, she's definitely got her hair done.

It's going to be good. Right? 20 minutes.

I mean, what else can it be? So I go in and it wasn't good.

It wasn't done. It was ready to be done.

So she's like, what do you want to do? And I was like, well, what I really want to do is have two hours to do, yeah, but whatever.

Were they waiting for you to go in or no?

No, I think she was just like doing makeup, probably got chatting and there was no real intention or anything.

It was just like, whatever, you know, like you're in the chair every day, you know?

And then I went in, I don't know. So I did that thing that hairdressers do where you start moving the hair around.

Have you ever sat in a chair and a hairdresser's kind of like, they're just kind of touching it and moving it around.

It means we don't know what we're doing.

We're kind of just like hoping something's going to happen.

So I said to her, like, have you ever tried a wig?

Because I thought that would be great because it'd be fast.

And she's like, I don't like wigs. So I'm like, oh.

Of course you don't like wigs. And then I really lost myself.

And I was like, why would you like anything I've got to do?

Like, you see me, you see the little boy standing at the window, you see little Chris.

Like, what am I doing here? I'm a joke. I'm a joke.

Like, why would I? And I felt like that shame again.

And I felt small, so small. And I just had this moment.

It was actually the mother of my kids, Kate, who we are still best friends and she has always been so supportive throughout my career.

I called her on the way and she says to me, look, Chris, if you don't make this work, you're going to have to come home because I have responsibilities.

I'm a dad. I have the kids, you know. And I remember thinking, if I don't make this work, I'm going to have to go home.

So I thought, you know what? Let me do me.

And if she doesn't like it, that's cool.

We're just not a match. But if I don't do me and do everything I know, I'm 31.

I've spent my whole life learning this craft and if I don't do me and walk away, I'll always kick myself.

So I said, well, you know what? You never tried my wigs.

Let's try it. She was all right. So I put it on her head and she was like, Oh, and I'd finessed wigs.

I got really good at them. Cause I used to work with cancer patients.

So in all these little tricks, I kind of like from one area of my life then turned into making me good at it for stars.

And so I put it on her head and, there was no time.

She was like, I like it. So I put it on.

It was like no time. She literally got up and ran off onto the, onto the show.

And then she's on live TV. And you know, that was a time of social media because I was also very nervous because I, well, everyone's going to have an opinion on this.

And when it's good, it's great. And when it's bad, it's not.

When it's bad, you'll know about it. When it's good, it's okay.

Yeah, exactly. When it's bad, it's yeah.

It's bad. So, um, I remember she came off the stage and she, it was like a little break and, um, she was talking to someone like this and she looked over at me and she went, everyone likes your wig.

And then just carried on talking. And in that moment, I knew that it was great.

Like she looked great. And then we worked together, you know, it was the beginning of my career.

I don't want people to think I am being arrogant and telling that story because I had put so much of my whole life into my craft.

I wanted to learn it inside out, upside down, left to right.

I knew every aspect of hair for me to be able to be able to stand there and know that it was, right thing to do.

I wasn't being pushy or anything. I just knew that this was right.

And therefore, if it didn't work, it's like a relationship.

If it didn't work, it's okay. I tried. If I don't do what I know to be true and good, then I'll always kick myself and I'd hate that.

And I think part of my coming out story and seeing my full self again was not ever letting myself not be seen.

And I wanted to present as I was and the knowledge I knew.

And that was, it was a success story. And that was the beginning of my career in Hollywood.

It just rolled on. Once people saw her hair, because we did this kind of really icy wig.

And then I did these hoops in the hair. And then I started working with Ariana and then Kim and then Adele.

And it was J-Lo and it just, Katy Perry just, just evolved, you know, because people were like, who's doing that?

That's cool. You know, pop stars or artists like to change their hair up.

So it's like, okay, cool. So it was very fast.

That was very fast, but I was very prepared because I'd spent 31 years of my life learning it.

It's really interesting because I'll tell you later, I have a very similar story of, because when I first moved out here, everyone was asking me to teach them how to meditate or coaching them or guiding them spiritually on their life.

And so I was meeting a lot of people and our work, funnily enough, is similar, even though it's very different.

It's very intimate. It's very one-on-one.

100%, yeah. Really present in someone's life.

Yeah. And I had a similar experience, but...

The thing I found as well was if I was trying to be what they wanted me to be, I couldn't be that.

I just knew how to do what I do. And that's really hard when you feel inexperienced, you feel like an imposter and you feel like you don't belong here, which is how I felt too.

Totally, which we all feel. Which we all feel.

Even when you have success or whatever, you know.

Yeah. And you come and you're like, oh no, but this is a bigger world.

It's a different world and it's different eyeballs.

And then you're just like, no, actually I have to trust the work that I've done up until now, and that doesn't make me egotistic.

Totally. It just makes me experienced. Totally.

I've got to trust the experience I have.

100%. And most importantly, it makes me me.

So I love that message from your experience there, which was, if you hadn't done the wig, it would have just looked terrible.

Yeah, totally. Because you wouldn't have been able to do anything with it in that time.

Exactly. And so you had to trust your instincts, which was, my experience says, let's go with the wig.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's amazing. And then, obviously, you became such good friends with Kim and everyone.

It's like... What's been your favourite part about building these amazing relationships?

Because the work is so intimate. It is so connected to them.

I'm so grateful to work with everyone I've worked with.

I always just feel very lucky to work in their presence because they're amazing at what they do.

You know, they're an artist in their realm.

And to be a part of it, I just feel very grateful.

And, you know, Kim, I've become very good friends with her.

I have so much respect for her. To see her up close, to see...

You know, the world sees one thing. They see Kim Kardashian.

I don't really see her like that. She is Kim, you know, and she is a mother, an amazing mother.

She is a businesswoman, you know, to see what she did with Skims and build that and just to see how she is with everyone that walks in the door.

You know, she speaks to, whether it's an assistant, a lighting person, she says hello to everyone, introduces herself.

She doesn't have to, but she's just a great person.

Yeah, she's world-class. a really really great person and so I think organically you spend so much time together with the people you work with obviously there's a friendship there and I'm just incredibly grateful I've got to work with the people I do and you know see them in the light I do because I guess not everyone does because again we all make assumptions everyone's just seen a vision or an image or a quick clip on tv or a clip here on social media and we all make assumptions it's what we do it's okay but I just feel grateful to have seen a side that maybe others haven't and um Yeah, I'm sure you get that all the time from people back at home as well.

Like, oh, what do people really like behind the camera?

And I always find it so refreshing to be able to be like, no, a lot of the people you watch, they're actually really wonderful and nice.

There isn't some big conspiracy. They're just wonderful humans who are really nice and they're really great at what they do.

What they do. Yeah, what they do. And yeah, they treat everyone with respect and it isn't as juicy as you want it to be.

No, totally. Yeah. So with your journey with that piece, it feels like, I mean, you said it earlier, you were like, it only gets harder.

Yeah. And it feels like even though now you are having this success and that was moving fast and you have become the person you've become where you are the go-to person in life. the city, but across the States for all of these people to turn to, whether they're musicians, models, talent.

And then I think now it's been like just a year from your divorce again.

And that was with a very public relationship.

Was that the first time you'd had a public relationship?

It was definitely the first time that I'd experienced that magnitude of people being so invested in my private life.

What was it like having such a public romantic relationship as someone who, for years before that, let alone having a public relationship, you weren't even in a relationship with a man?

Yeah. This is the first time I've ever spoke about this.

And I think people have this perception from social media, probably like I said it, I have it together, I work with these amazing people, life looks glamorous.

So from the outside, it probably looks like I got it all together.

But the truth is, especially during that time, I was going through a lot of private pain.

And then you go with all the online speculation part.

People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid and people have an opinion on your life.

And that can be incredibly intense, especially when you're just trying to deal with things.

I think for me, what really helped me was... not being okay.

And, you know, I've always believed in therapy and I work with a therapist to really sit in my feelings and really go through them and understand how I felt.

And that is really brutal to go through it.

But for me coming out the other side, there's a part of you that feels like you can, you know, reflect on it and move on.

One of the biggest lessons I learned is finding alignment from what I do is all about visual, you know, it's what I've done my whole life.

And even what people see of me is this visual representation of Chris Appleton.

But I think for me, there was a real piece in finding alignment and inner peace on the inside.

And like I said, that wasn't an easy process, but I think when you align those two, when you genuinely feel good on the inside, I think that's when your real power comes in place.

You know, just because there's a headline about you doesn't necessarily mean you have to go and explain to everyone about your life.

And I think for me, I really wanted to deal with it with peace and deal with it my way.

You know, it's the interesting thing about living in the public eye is people have an opinion and that's okay.

I don't mind people saying good and bad things because you put yourself out into the arena, you're going to get that.

But I think for me as a dad, I wanted to protect my kids.

I always want to do that. And I'm very aware any relationship I go into, there will be a conversation around that.

And so I think for me, making sure that I had that internal alignment, which I never had my whole life, finding that and being comfortable with that and finding happiness was a really beautiful thing.

And You know, you can love someone and then not be a forever happy ending.

I think you learn so much from it. I think any relationship I've ever gone into, I've learned so much from it.

I've learned what's important to me in terms of boundaries, in terms of how I want to be loved, how I want to love.

And that's a beautiful thing because it means you're always growing and evolving.