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I'm Will Bain. Great to have your company coming up today.
The Chinese battery maker powering ahead of its competition as shares of CATL surge.
We're going to try and tell you more about one of the world's fastest growing firms and how it's come to lead the way in the race for electric battery power.
Also today, the tiny West African islands just a few kilometers long at the centre of a 50 year dispute.
According to S &P Global, they host about 740 million biles of oil.
And so that's the justification for the contention.
Yeah, more on the dispute between Gabon and Equatorial Guinea over those potentially oil rich islands to come and this guy is off to Netflix.
And he's not going alone Cookie Monster taking Bert Ernie Elmo and Oscar the grouch and more of the much loved cast of the children's hit show Sesame Street will ask why they're heading to one of the world's biggest streaming platforms and what it means for those young viewers before we leave you today here on World Business report.
Let's start though if not with a bang, then a bong.
Yeah and that was Robin Zeng, now one of Asia's richest men and richer still today after shares of the electric car battery firm he founded CATL surged more than 16 % following him striking the gong as he opened the Hong Kong stock exchanges trading session on Tuesday.
it's a second stock market listing for the firm which is already listed in mainland China on the Shenzhen exchange, but this was aimed at to help fund its rapid expansion plans all around the world, which include a 7 billion plus dollar gigafactory in Hungary in Europe as well.
We'll get into more but the countries are the company's background and its rise in just a moment but Fiona Sinkotta as always on a Tuesday with a senior market analyst at City Index. This was stock market story of the day on Tuesday, Fiona.
Yes, indeed. You know, some really encouraging news.
I think, you know, it does show that there is still demand for, you know, blue chip stocks, which are technically at the forefront of of EV technology.
And that's good that that's overshadowing at least the risks of sort of, you know, being caught up in that turbulence between the US and China and the trade tariff chaos that we've had over recent weeks.
And before we take people back and really kind of explain the rise of CATL and a bit more about its technology as well just the reasons for any company to dual list or triple list. Why would a company want to list in different jurisdictions around the world listed shares for the sale in different jurisdictions around the world Fiona?
So there are several reasons I think one of the main reasons is financially so you get potential to have an ingression of funds and income and then you also have the increase or brand awareness so by doing it in different countries that also makes other countries and other customers potential customers aware of that brand.
So they would be the two main reasons that you might be looking to do that well someone who knows all about this brand is Two Lee founder of the consultancy Sino Auto Insights he's joining us from Detroit, Michigan, in the United States to thanks for being with us on world business report.
How much brand awareness I mean, this company for one that's so fast growing, Vienna makes an interesting point, doesn't she that it does seem to need a little bit of marketing sometimes?
Why do you think it's still for one of the best performing companies on the planet, perhaps so little known round the world compared to say a big American stock market listed firm.
So, CTEL is actually a fairly young company established in 2011, and most of its sales still derive out of China.
They're going to change that, and they've already built a small factory in Germany, but they're looking to invest over $7 billion to build a huge 100 gigawatt hour factory in Hungary.
So, the IPO, or secondary listing, that helped them raise $4 .5 billion is going to help pay that factory in Hungary.
Tell us a little bit about that rising because it's been pretty meteoric.
It corresponds with the rise of electric vehicle adoption in China.
Right now the China market is around 50 % take rate so one out of every two vehicles is a new energy vehicle.
So that includes hybrids but the ATL dominates in the battery space with legacy automakers and Chinese EV makers being a deep list of their customers so again they control about 38 % of the market and that's that's what makes them such a dynamic company.
How did it become so dominant do you think because we know the competition has been fierce not just in the sale of the EVs itself in China but of obviously the parts that go into them and the battery the engine are sensibly being a key one of it well how's it stood out compared to its rivals?
There are a few different chemistries that are used for battery packs for electric vehicles.
There's a more expensive one, NMC, and they use lithium phosphate, or LFP, and they've really, really been able to drive down costs on the LFP batteries.
companies. And their scale, again, with 38 % on the market allows them to really bring high quality, you know, high value products to their customers in the in the electric vehicle space to stay with us if you can.
So I want to get your thoughts about that expansion and their sort of global ambitions beyond China in a moment as well.
But you take us to kind of the perfect point really to introduce Professor Paul Christensen.
Paul is a professor of pure and applied electro chem at Newcastle University, my alma mater here in the UK expert in this battery technology, and has shared some of that expertise with the industry here in the UK in the past as well.
I'm Professor Christians and welcome to World Business Report.
Great to have you on the programme as well.
Thank you for having me.
Just build on what too was telling us then about what is unique then or special or what makes their battery ahead of the pack I suppose?
Well it's clever manipulation of an existing technology.
It's been said LFP is actually an existing chemistry, one of the six or seven chemistries with lithium -ion batteries but clearly CATL have manipulated this to exploit its rapid charging ability and take it a bit further so that we're looking at essentially incredibly fast charging times.
Right. And that's been the key for all these companies right around the world what we call legacy car makers, isn't it?
Because for us, the consumers, that's been the big question mark, how long do I have to sit around at the petrol station waiting for it to charge up again?
That's exactly it. consumers are impatient.
And so what is it? And I asked this with a bit of trepidation as a non scientist, but can you explain it in layman's terms as to what they cracked, that others haven't in terms of the of that charging?
Well it's I don't have the details of the actual chemistry because obviously that's going to be patented and protected but I mean some of the ways that that companies have addressed this are to make the particles that take in the lithium ions to be as small as possible so the distance that the lithium ions have to travel to get into the particles inside the particles is very very small so they're clearly exploited technologies such as that and successfully, although I have to raise a slight note of caution because what they're looking at is 12 times the conventional speed of charging.
Now what we do know about lithium ion batteries, I mean dealing with scientists is like herding cats and you'll have five different opinions from two different scientists, but one thing we all agree on is that rapid charging can lead to what's called lithium metal plating and that destabilises the battery.
So I, I assume that they have addressed this issue and done extensive testing.
Unknown Speaker So when you say destabilize, what reduces performance over time or make it so Unknown Speaker reduce its thermal stability.
Unknown Speaker Ah, so it would get very hot.
Unknown Speaker It could basically essentially with repeated extra fast charging could end up in thermal runaway.
Do you see it then, as Two does as well professor that CATL's kind of secret here is it's just purely down to that the tech or is there something else that you see, watching this industry as closely as you do that you've been impressed by that you think is a reason that they stand out from others?
I think they stand out from others because they invest, they invest in people, they invest in science, the research, and this is clearly paying off, as has been said, it's a very young company.
And to achieve the kind of success it's had, it's that is absolutely impressive.
I mean, it is, if if not one of the top companies in the world, it is maybe the best, the top battery company in the world.
And that's a pretty insignificant achievement to that's an interesting question.
Then going forward for the future, isn't it?
Should this kind of be the technology now should those big car brands that are looking to develop perhaps their own batteries or they're working with other technology companies and partners around the world to develop them should they just abandon that you think and tie up with this company because wouldn't that make that switch over for the big car companies much smoother in terms of the transition if they had a reliable battery partner that by the look of things is ahead of the game?
So for the foreseeable future Will, LFP batteries are going to be the dominant chemistry for for electric vehicles, I'm saying through 2030.
And it helps that China also has the lion's share of mining rights for minerals for these batteries but also refining these minerals.
And there's a bit of irony here because one of the biggest impediments to CTL's meteoric growth is a lack of entry or ability to enter the US market.
And the LFP chemistry was actually developed in the United States at the University of Texas, so there's a bit of irony there.
It certainly had some questions, hasn't it, from the U .S. government about its proximity to the Chinese government, and so it's been very much in the crosshairs when it's come to the trade war.
Paul, as someone who works closely with the industry here in the UK and in Europe as well, is that going to be the question going forward for a lot of these companies?
Do we bother trying to pursue supply chain security, a European alternative, or do we go for something that's out there and proven, as you were saying?
Well, we're completely dependent upon South Korea and China for our batteries.
I mean, there is the Nissan battery plant in near Sunderland, which I've worked with for many, many years up in the northeast of England, near where you're located as well.
Yeah, and that's been a gigafactory that's been around since about 2010, 2011.
But otherwise, we really are completely dependent upon South Korea and China.
And I have to say, of course, that LFP batteries have actually made it across into the UK for example in battery energy storage systems for some years now.
But of course there are other technologies coming up, so -called old solid -state batteries etc which are believed to be safer and I can't see the various car companies abandoning any research into these new technologies in favour of a wholly LFP future.
Such a fascinating area.
You don't need to be a big car or auto fan to see that this is really the cutting edge of where some of the biggest business stories in the world are happening, isn't it?
And really fascinating to get both your insight.
Thanks so much for the conversation there.
To Lee the founder of Consultancy scino insights.
Joining us from Detroit, Michigan and Professor Paul Christiansen, professor of pure and applied electrochem at Newcastle University here in the UK.
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Join now at you're with well business report on the BBC World Service.
Well at just one kilometre long the tiny West African islands of Mbani might seem an unlikely focal point for a bitter international dispute but a string of oil and gas discoveries in the waters surrounding it and two of its neighbouring islands has fueled a more than 50 -year dispute between African oil producing nations Gabon and Equatorial Guinea.
That seems to potentially have come to a close this week with the United Nations top court siding with Equatorial Guinea and its claims to the island.
So what next for that dispute that could center around investment and fossil fuel revenues.
Of course the BBC's in Ketchibana has been taking a look for us.
These three islands, nobody lives there.
And so they are islands that are perceived to have some reasonable amount of oil deposits in them.
They are just off the coast of Equatorial Guinea and Gabon, two countries that are in Central Africa, the islands of Mbani, Kokotia and Konga at the centre of this decades long battle.
Yeah, as you say, we're talking 50 plus years the countries have been rowing about it.
Is it as simple as that, that they think they could be pretty significant reserves of oil and gas in the waters around them.
It's unclear how rich these three islands are in hydrocarbons or oil reserves, but nearby oil projects just off the coast of the two countries currently produce about 30 ,000 barrels of crude a day, and according to the S &P Global, they host about 740 million barrels of oil equivalent of recoverable resources.
And so it is believed that the justification for the contention, hoping that these islands would have sufficient crude oil to boost the economies of either nations, well, in this case, Equatorial Guinea, since the International Court has ruled in your favour.
Yeah, right. Take us to that court ruling that came this week, then from the court in The Hague in the Netherlands.
So yeah, the top court had said Equatorial Guinea's claim to the islands based on a 1900 Paris Convention that divided French and Spanish colonial assets in West Africa was valid.
In 1970 there was another convention where Gaborne laid claim to it after it chased the soldiers in Equatorial Guinea from these same territories and built a military base there.
But after so many years of conflict and so many years of disagreement which ended up at the International Court, it has been given back to Equatorial Guinea.
So Equatorial Guinea is the Spanish colony while Gabon is a French colony and they had laid claim to it back in 1900s.
The convention that saw the agreement between the two colonies, but obviously that was contested in the 1970s.
Talk about history causing complications.
And the court ruling is meant to be the final legal step, isn't it, Nkechi, but in statements after the case, certainly the Gabonese side, the losing side, talked about negotiating further.
So is there a sense that this might not be over?
This might not be the last we hear of this dispute.
The president of Gabon's Constitutional Court said the Bata Convention, which was in the 1970s where they tried to lay claim back to the island from Equatorial Guinea.
The head of that court said it was drawn up in an era before computers and databases.
So, they are questioning the legality of the 1900 Convention.
But again, the Equatorial Guinea legal representative says they dismissed that Convention in the 1970s, is calling it, in quotes, scraps of paper.
So they're basically saying that they believe in the ruling of the International Court of Justice, and that ruling should stand.
It's unclear at this point what the next steps the Gabonese government will take in respect to this case.
You can tell, though, by the heated language, can't you, just how key this particular commodity, oil, gas, natural resources, are to both economies.
Yeah, it's very clear.
Both are oil producing countries, but Gabon produces significantly more than Equatorial Guinea.
Gabon produces over 200 ,000 barrels of crude a day, and Equatorial Guinea produces just a little over 50 ,000 barrels per day.
So it's a crucial commodity to both countries.
Both countries are unfortunately poor countries under the UN poverty index. People there are facing different kinds of challenges when it comes to the standards of living and high cost of living as well and so every asset every national asset or source of revenue for the government is very crucial to both governments.
And ketchaug bonner there.
Now the Irish airline Ryan Air, Europe's biggest by passenger numbers, has asked some of its flight attendants in Spain to pay back thousands of euros in pay rises they have received since last year as part of a union deal which was struck down by the Spanish High Court.
A judge found that an agreement over salaries between the Union's CCOO and the airline last year was not valid after a rival trade union representing some other members of staff at the airline the USO contested it.
One anonymous unionized cabin crew member told the Reuters news agency the company asked him in April to repay more than four thousand dollars and cut his monthly salary.
A little earlier on we spoke to Laura Caballero, a Spanish flight attendant at Ryanair and a union delegate of the USO, who has brought the court action.
Yeah, the court case was about the negotiation between the company and the two unions that were sitting at the negotiating table at that moment in April last year, that was actually us along with the union CCOO.
At the moment those negotiations started, we didn't think we were doing the negotiations in the right way, because it's the workers who need to choose the negotiators of their own agreement.
And there was no election for the for the negotiators.
So we actually advised the company and the other union to do it the proper way.
They refused. We stood up from the negotiation, we weren't rejected, we stood up willingly from that negotiation because we didn't think it was legal.
And so the long and short of this then from that is that the two unions ended up, well, one didn't agree anything, and the other union did agree something with the company?
Is that sort of where the problems begin?
We believe that the way they came up with the negotiation and the agreement was not the right one.
And the outcome of that is that the agreement released by the company, the other union, has been actually handpicked by the company.
They chose to do it that way.
In order to sign an agreement that is not beneficial to the workers.
That's what we think that's what we think.
And the long short of that has been that those represented by the other union, the CCOO.
They got a new payday deal and your unionised members so from you, the staff at Ryanair from your union didn't so people were getting paid different amounts, right?
That's right. We are thinking of the best way to take that to court as well because, as you said, CCOO affiliates and representatives will not get any pay cuts.
But non affiliates, people that haven't been in any union, or people who have been in our union will have to, well, we'll have their rights and their pay, their conditions reverted back.
Plus, we'll have to pay, quote, unquote, the quantity we have been overpaid over this month.
And what would be your kind of message then for Michael O 'Leary, the boss of Ryanair?
The only thing I can tell him is that the law needs to be complied.
It's just as easy as that.
They think of us, of an union that is hard to negotiate with.
Well, it's the company that actually refuses to cooperate with us by complying with the law, or even such simple things as sending a replay back to an email.
There's Laura Caballero that Spanish flight attendant for Ryanair and a union delegate for the USO union she mentioned Michael O 'leary, or I did as well, they're the boss of Ryanair Well, we asked Ryanair, Mr O 'leary or otherwise to come on the programme no one available.
A spokesperson did tell the BBC though that the airline is complying with the court case that the USO union took to cut pay while it's under appeal.
You with World Business Report on the BBC World service.
Now we've heard about plenty of big names of the small screen being scooped up as part of the content wars between the world's big streaming platforms, haven't we, but are there any bigger than Big Bird along with Elmo bird Ernie Cookie Monster Oscar the grounds for the rest of the residents of the children's hit TV show Sesame Street, they're packing up and heading to Netflix came amid fears though, the cast might be lost from screens after the future of its long term home on America's PBS network was put in doubt.
After President Trump's administration chose to pull funding for the free to air channel, Anna Murray takes up the story.
It's the stuff of TV legend.
Sesame Street dates back to the late 1960s, when its co -founders Lloyd Morissette and Joan Gance Cooney went to top US university Harvard with what was then a novel way of teaching American children, using techniques originally pioneered in advertising to help educate.
A team led by developmental psychologists worked with The Muppets creator Jim Henson, introducing the world to characters like Cookie Monster.
Whoa. Om nom nom nom, om nom nom nom, om nom nom nom Count von Count So, dare you have one, two, three, four, five, six super ways to count things, ha ha ha Big Bird, Elmo, Bert and Ernie It was pioneering stuff, a preschool program that aimed to broaden the mind No topic was taboo, no issue ignored, race, homelessness, autism, AIDS It's given us some great celebrity cameos as well over the years from Johnny Cash and Stevie Wonder to Ed Sheeran and James Blunt Oh and some great songs Oh Triangle, where are you?
And now Season 56 of Sesame Street will be on our screens later this year, a date to be confirmed along with 90 hours of previous episodes as well.
So what can we expect more than half a century on?
Well, we're promised more exploration of the Sesame Street neighbourhood and a look inside the famous two -storey house at 123 Sesame Street.
We're also told you can expect fan favorites like Elmo's World and Cookie Monster's Foodie Truck.
Despite concerns about its future it seems like for now we can still get to Sesame Street.
The BBC's Anna Murray reporting there a sigh of relief I can hear collectively being given not just by kids perhaps around the world but their parents more importantly as well for noticing Gotta still with us from city index yes that's definitely the case i definitely yeah best sesame street character for me it was the cookie monster i think that like insatiable love of cookies was something that really resonates it's the easy answer but it's the right answer as well as cooky monster or oscar the grouch is always a favorite mine as well in the business angle to all of this of course is as well
that um not only was it in a perilous kind of state financially Sesame Street because of the funding changes at PBS, but Netflix and I thought this was interesting in the release Fiona talking about just 15 % of its viewing on its services being kids content so far, there's an area for expansion.
Yes, definitely. And I think, you know, they're really looking to double down on that child focused content in order to compete with rivals such as YouTube.
And in order to grab more more of that, Yeah, especially if you're going to add advertising tiers as they had, you know, that's such a key demographic, isn't it kids, younger viewers?
Exactly. And it seems to be going down really well.
You know, we've got the share price trading at all time highs, their recent results have shown that there was a 13 % growth in revenue and that you can expect to increase if they are able to target the children.
They've also announced today some more episodes of Peppa Pig as well.
So certainly doubling down, we'll see what the share price reaction is to that on the next episode of World Business report i'm sure phiona thanks as always for your time phiona synchota there from city index in london bring us to the close of world business report find home wherever you roam at senesta es and simply sweets stretch out and enjoy home like amenities for however long you need and when you're a senesta travel pass member staying at senesta es and simply sweets means earning points toward free nights upgrades and more Go to Senesta .com and book your stay and unlock their best rates with Senesta Travel Pass.
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