Discussion keeps the Thank you.
Thank you.
After that, we have this lined up for you.
China's biggest online platforms are racing to redefine VIP treatment.
Their super VIP memberships link online shopping with offline services.
Think food, travel, entertainment and more.
Are users really getting their money's worth?
Many are skeptical and we're diving into the reality.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts.
And now let's have a moment of heart to heart.
You ask, we answer.
Roundtable, heart to heart.
This is our heart to heart segment, the part of the show where we connect directly with you, our listeners.
Today, we've got a voice memo from Bruce.
Hi, Roundtable China team.
This is Bruce from Ling Yi, a long-time loyal listener.
Thank you so much for the meaningful companionship your podcast has brought me over the years.
Whether I'm communiting, working or relaxing, your depth humor and diverse perspectives always make me think and I truly appreciate it.
I work for the government and last year a very introverted young lady joined my office.
For almost a year we never spoke at all.
Can you believe that?
She seldom talked to others either, something I hadn't seen in my 10 years here.
I know it's not kind to think of her as unusual, but Her extreme quietness made me wonder more about introversion, whether this is a common trait among deeply introverted people or if there's more to how they navigate social spaces that I'm not seeing.
So here's the question.
Could you share insights into the differences and key traits between introverts and extroverts?
I'm curious about how they interact with the world, recharge energy and approach relationships or work differently.
Thanks again for all you do.
All the best wishes for you.
I'm looking forward to your next episode.
Thank you so much, Bruce, from Linyi, Shandong Province in China.
And can I just say I love the aura that comes out of your speech and voice.
It's super calm, super cool, and he knows how to do business, I feel.
Bruce has a good radio voice.
I love that.
Yeah.
So to answer your question, Steve has done some homework.
What are the personality traits of introverts and extroverts?
Let's start with the extroverts.
Those are any extroverts in the room, I wonder.
I'll define it first and then you can give your answer.
Extroverts are people who Get energy and happiness from external stimuli.
They really like social interaction.
They love being with people.
They love talking with people.
Extroverts tend to be outgoing and talkative and they love being at social events and group activities and being in a lively environment.
It's invigorating for them.
They get joy from that, they get happiness from that.
And your extroverts in the office are probably the ones who come over and greet you in the morning hi, you know, nice to see you, have a great morning.
Or before they go home they'll say the same types of things.
They're usually chatty at the office.
Those are your extroverts anybody.
Well, it's kind of complicated and I feel it's maybe not yet to jump in yet.
Let's give the other definition first, and then...
Well, there's two more definitions, as a matter of fact.
First of all, we'll discuss the introverts.
The introverts are people who feel energized by spending time alone or in a quiet space.
Very low stimulation environments are happy places for introverts.
If they do socialize, especially in large groups, they need time by themselves to kind of recharge on their own.
And it doesn't mean that they are shy.
A lot of people will misunderstand an introvert for a shy person or an antisocial person, but that's just not the case.
It's just that they prefer to have deep conversations, perhaps with a few close friends or with just one close friend, rather than going out in a big social environment and being the life of the party.
They just get their happiness and their reward from different kinds of interactions, and they do enjoy their time alone.
That's important to them as well.
But I think it's true that introverts are often looked at as antisocial or unfriendly, But that's just not the case.
Very interesting.
And well, judging by our sort of very subtle response just now.
Are you two introverts?
I think I'm the third definition.
I'll give you that one first.
Okay, let's get there.
The ambivert.
The ambivert is a person who has both qualities of the introvert and the extrovert.
It's kind of like walking a tightrope between the two or living in that middle ground of the personality spectrum.
And they might enjoy going out to a party on one particular Friday evening or Saturday evening.
And while they're at that party, they might be the center of attention.
They might be really talkative.
They might be really outgoing.
But then the next time they might say, no, thanks, not this weekend.
I'd rather just stay home by myself and relax. get my energy that way.
But they do appreciate both sides.
And that's why ambiverts can function pretty well because they tend to have a lot of friends.
They tend to be social people, but they're not always out every single time talking.
So at the office ambiverts are typically pretty friendly people, but they might keep to themselves sometimes, which could be a mood that they happen to be in on that particular day.
They're just not in the mood for, for social interaction.
So they live, they live in that gray area.
Yeah.
I think me, myself included, and many people that I know are just like.
The third type you mentioned is the.
We walk the fine line between the two types of say, personalities.
I'll say personality traits.
And there are of course, extremely extroverted people and extra, Extremely introverted people.
In Bruce's case, I think his colleague might belong to the latter here.
But for many of us, for most people, we're just ambivert in a way.
Yeah, it's like the absolute, absolute extrovert and the absolute introvert are standing at the two ends of a spectrum and most people are somewhere in the middle of that, and you guys feel free to call yourself ambiverts.
And I used to think that.
Oh, first of all, mbti does not work for me uh, because myers-briggs type, this indicator says that i am a entj um, and i do, so it puts me in the extrovert group and i am not um.
Yeah, like i see yushan's eyebrows rise, and Because I know I can be very chatty.
And at times I can sort of be the like, life of the party kind of thing.
But actually, it takes up so much of my energy.
I mean, I don't mind it.
Sometimes you're you just feel like you're playing a social role or something especially like for our line of work when you need to get on stage.
And You got to be all like lively, chatty, positive and everything.
But actually Steve, what you mentioned earlier on, I think, is a.
Really that's the key indicator, or the real factor that differentiates between introverts and extroverts.
That is how a person recharges him or herself.
And I have to be alone when I do the recharging and I do not get energy from being with other people.
And it's just so exhausting for me, in my opinion.
So actually I think I am.
Despite what on the surface might do, I exhibit those characteristics.
I am actually, in fact, a very introverted person.
I wonder if you fit into the fourth category.
Oh, there's a fourth one.
Now, this is a new word for me.
I had never heard of this before, but there's a book called The Gift of Not Belonging and it's written by Dr Rami Kaminsky and it takes things a step further.
So Dr. Kaminsky, he coined this term called OTROVERT, O-T-R-O.
And it's coined from the Spanish term otro, which means other.
So it's kind of other vert like you don't fit into the first three that we described.
And this is a person who is popular.
They are sociable.
They are deeply invested in their one on one relationships with their best friends or their romantic partners or their family members.
But they struggle to have a sense of belonging in a group.
According to Dr. Kaminsky, these are people who are emotional loners.
They feel the most alone when they are surrounded by others.
Interesting.
We've brought this up, I think, a long time ago on Roundtable.
We had a similar discussion talking about how you can be out in a group of people and still feel lonely or still feel alone.
Well, according to Dr. Kaminsky, there's a large group of people that that applies to.
Well, from what we heard from Bruce, from Lin Yee, I think he sounds curious about a very sort of opposite personality.
And When you're in the workplace, I think we're not there to necessarily make friends.
I mean, that is a great benefit if you can get that sort of extracurricular.
But in a workplace, you are sitting in an office, so this is not working remotely.
Then usually, like people somehow feel okay, we need to fit a certain role, we need to interact.
But this is also a very casual observation, only according to one person who are young.
Okay, so just you know.
Maybe completely cast it off.
But anyway.
So for the younger generation, these days maybe there's maybe a growing number of younger people, younger workers, who feel like there, it's okay just to be silent.
They're not like actively trying to mold into that very sociable role, even at work, and i just find that to be, on the one hand, very liberating.
On the other hand, Doesn't this person worry at all about oh, will I get seen by the boss?
Will I get the promotion, et cetera?
How do people see me kind of thing?
Yeah, go for it.
I fall into that group.
I don't qualify as a Gen Z person.
I'm not even close, but I still fall into that group.
Yushin, one of the members of Roundtable, he sits across from me in our office.
And one day a lady came over to him and gave him some food and then walked away.
And I said, oh, the lady was significantly older than Yushin.
I said, oh, is that your mom?
And he said, no, she works here.
I said, oh, really?
Where?
And he pointed.
He said, right over there.
I said, I have never seen that person before.
And I had worked here for nine months at the time.
And I didn't recognize someone who worked in our own office.
I am not particularly outgoing in the workplace, but I don't feel any pressure like you have to be.
So Bruce, I think back to your coworker now, maybe that coworker feels the same way.
It doesn't mean that they lack confidence or they're shy.
Maybe it just means that And they're that type of person where they are not opposed to making friends, but they just don't go out of their way to socialize while they're at work.
And as someone who is Gen Z okay, more or less closer than i am, but sorry, just this is why i don't make friends at the office and also don't call.
Next time when you see that you should situation refer to the lady as oh, maybe a sister.
No, i genuinely thought that was his mom.
Don't say mom, no one here wants to know to to a lady.
Wants to be referred to somebody's mom.
She's not in the room.
Yeah okay okay, okay.
To my point as, as an introvert turned ambivert, i totally understand that some introverted people they they try really hard because the society sometimes see introvert as someone who is less active or shy or just simply marginizing themselves and sinking into their own spaces without interacting with the outside world.
But in order to prove that we're equally as good and active and we are a part of the society.
After all, many of us turn ourselves or suit ourselves into the respective occasions or contexts that we're trying to fit into, and turn extrovert-like sometimes and gradually become ambivert in that process.
So maybe your colleague here Bruce, is just someone who refused to do that, who just protects her own spiritual world and boundaries within the working environment.
And as long as she's functioning well, as long as she's conducting necessary conversation with the co-workers or leadership in the office and she's not delaying work or anything because of her introversion, um personality, i think yeah, just respect that and realize that she is.
She is uniquely being herself.
Yeah, here's the advice, or not advice?
Here's the opinion of another uh, professional related to um, the office, and this is a an article i found on linkedin and it was talking about personalities within the workspace.
Bruce, maybe it's possible that you're working with a professional introvert.
And what that means is someone who has a job that allows them to be in their head a lot of the time.
What that means is like a writer, for example, or a researcher or an accountant, where they're using their brain a lot, but they can do it by themselves.
They don't need to interact with other people to do their job really, really well.
And that type of job or that type of person, they might not always speak up.
Perhaps they don't receive all the praise that comes when it's praise time within the office.
But still, they enjoy doing their job well.
They don't want to ignore people in the office, but they're just so busy with their own minds and their own space that they come off as being maybe a little bit rude or a little bit arrogant or a little bit antisocial or something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, any set of personality traits, introvert, extrovert, or ambivert.
Or outrovert.
And that as well can make the best person, friend, or employee.
And your overall character, in my opinion, is usually the best judgment.
And that's heart to heart.
Remember, this segment does not exist without you.
So keep your emails and voice memos coming.
Send them to roundtablepodcast at qq.com.
Coming up next.
VIP perks used to be simple.
Priority check-in, a discount here or there.
Now China's biggest online platforms are bundling nearly anything to do your online and offline services into one super VIP membership.
But when perks cover so much and math gets so tricky, do they really make life easier or just make us de facto spend more?
Stay tuned.
Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Want to hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune in to Roundtable where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
You are listening to Roundtable with myself, He Yang.
I'm joined by Steve and Yushan.
Remember when being a VIP or very important person meant holding a shiny card in your wallet, maybe for your favorite store or online, or let's just say online.
Airline service.
Fast forward to today.
It's China's online platform giants and they are all pushing super VIP bundles.
They're stitching together services that run from online shopping to offline dining hotels entertainment, even health care.
You name it.
But are these memberships truly delivering value or just another way for platforms to squeeze more from loyal users?
It's pretty obvious what online platform giants are trying to do.
They want to lock us in their ecosystems online and even offline.
What do these VIP membership ecosystem actually look like these days, and just how extensive are they?
Well, it's so trendy nowadays, isn't it?
Many major online platforms.
They're all entering such an era of what they call the mega membership model, which means bundling a bunch of individual memberships into one package.
So with one purchase, you get services from a lot of different diverse groups. platforms.
So instead of paying for separate memberships, like one for video streaming, one for music, one for shopping, you get one huge bundle that covers all.
Two good examples that I kind of can think of immediately would be number one Taobao, which is the leading, if not one of the major biggest, online shopping platforms in China.
So 10 yuan less.
Yeah, and it's about 10 to 12 US dollars, so not really that much for an annual membership bundle that covers shopping, that you get daily coupons, big sale vouchers and exclusive subsidy subsidies, and also daily just lifestyle memberships, like annual subscriptions or major video music apps, etc.
And also other platforms that i didn't know of, including meituan, which is a major lifestyle um platform.
They just rolled out earlier this year an all new membership system that Not only covers the original say, shopping coupons or food delivery coupons that used only for in-platform purchases, but also expanding all that to say hotel perks, free upgrades and hotel breakfast, like travel perks such as airport lounges, stuff like that.
Yeah.
They are quite extensive.
It depends on the site, right?
Because JD has one.
This is kind of like Taobao's 88 VIP, but this goes beyond the traditional shopping perks.
You get extra discounts, you get unlimited free shipping, you get free returns.
That's a nice perk.
But the membership also includes some live service packages that are redeemable with points.
So that covers things like Laundry or shoe cleaning or courier services or home cleaning or car washes.
And even some have online medical consultations.
And that membership goes on a yearly basis.
Then there's Didi.
They've bundled their ride perks with free airport or high-speed rail lounge access.
That's on a monthly basis.
And then, like you said before Yushan, things that are related to hotels, like late checkouts or free breakfast or room upgrades or things like that.
Yeah, DD is kind of like the... Car hauling?
Yeah, the Chinese version of Uber.
So it makes so much sense that for this kind of app or platform to expand to all those kind of services that you mentioned it's all sort of travel related, etc.
And then it makes a lot of sense.
So recently this has been talked about because you've got newer big players sort of jumping into this, the competition pretty much.
But for all the hype many users aren't really all that convinced.
So how well do these VIP bundles really work?
Well for consumers.
Many have mixed feelings, and those who are in favor of these memberships well, they like it for its, first of all, convenience.
You can just make one purchase and get all necessary service that you probably need in daily life.
And also there's the cost saving from that because, for example, I used to purchase two separate services from an online cloud storage service and also from an audiobook app.
And nowadays the two are collaborating.
So with almost half the price of two combined together, I can get both for a year.
So that's just something so convenient, especially for young people nowadays.
We have so many needs via phone, let's say.
So yeah, it's nice to combine things together.
I have a question here.
So I think you're really lucky and good for you for saving money and enduring the services.
But see, like I've been kind of caught in a bind like that.
Because, okay, so maybe...
I don't really want to name names, but OK, so I use this particular e-commerce platform not a big shopper maybe five times a year.
So therefore, spending extra money on up front to buy membership for that platform, not worth it.
And of course, I use, let's say, video streaming apps or music streaming apps, but it doesn't belong to the same ecosystem.
And then am I gonna switch Those two knees just so that I can enjoy that super membership of that e-commerce site.
And that's just a lot to switch.
And I just don't feel I should do it.
That's why there's such a struggle, right?
This happens in America, too.
The two big ones that I found were Amazon Prime and then Walmart Plus.
And these programs, they're quite expensive.
The Amazon Prime one is about $139 a year.
Wow, that's pricey.
For memberships, that's really expensive, right?
That's well over 500 yuan for the year.
The Walmart one is $98 per year.
So relatively speaking, it's a little bit cheaper.
But that's the whole thing, Leung, you just talked about.
They want to create customer loyalty because with all of these bundles and packages, if you are signed up to one company, you're likely to do a lot of your business with that company, right?
It's like if you have a certain brands phone, Then having that brand's smartwatch and that brand's tablet or that brand's laptop, it just makes sense because they work so well with each other.
I think it's kind of the same thing here.
Well, when you look at the Chinese tech giants, especially the big five, maybe or maybe we can say two, depends on how you group them.
That everybody knows here in China.
Sometimes people are shocked by how influential they really are, because these companies have become so big and they've invested in so many smaller startups at the time which gradually grew, and with their deep-pocketed mother companies who keep on pumping these startups up.
And then they gradually become sort of the biggest player in that niche market or serving a particular need.
And therefore, why do you think these bundles exist?
Because on the surface, it looks like, oh, this is Alibaba.
Oh, this is JD underneath.
It's like they've got.
These big companies have invested in a lot of the times.
Many of the other services that have been bundled up into the super VIP.
So what do you think is it for the company?
And what do you think is it for us innocent users?
It all comes back to company loyalty, like Steve mentioned.
There is a saying called 80-20 rule, where 20% of loyal customers bring in 80% of the revenue.
So by giving these loyal users more perks, the platforms is more likely to nurture and lock down these high value members, who are key to their future growth.
It reminds me of something in day life.
I'm not sure if it's the best metaphor here, but there's similar bond between car dealership and insurance insurance company.
Say, if you're insured the insured driver that's working long time, that's a long time client with the insurance company then You are also received with exclusive services from the car dealership, like car maintenance or like vehicle planning.
All of which just pointing to the fact that for these platforms who share similar target audience or clients, in this particular case, they coexist and they get mutual benefits from being combined, like being combined their services together in one go.
Yeah.
From the customer's point of view, it can be really worth it if you take advantage from the Amazon Prime membership.
They did a study on CNBC and they found that if you take advantage of all of the services, that's valued at 1000, but you're only spending 139.
The question is...
Do the customers take advantage of all of the services provided, all of those bonuses or not?
So you have to figure out whether it's worth it for you or not.
Yeah.
So it all comes down to my own math.
I hate that.
But if you want to be a smart shopper sometimes shopping around and really reading the fine print and doing the math get your calculator app out.
It really helps.
And that brings us to the end of today's show.
Thank you so much, Steve and Yushan for joining the discussion.
You can find us on Apple Podcast at Roundtable China.
I'm He Young.
We'll see you next time.
