Ted Audio Collective.
Hi everyone, you're listening to After Hours.
I'm young me. I'm Felix.
And I'm me here. Hey guys, how does it feel to be back on campus?
It is fantastic actually.
It's great. I mean, I got to tell you, it's a little bit of like, change is hard, right?
So, I got good at Zoom and now I'm like, oh, yeah, this is what other people is like.
You mean the rest of humanity?
The rest of humanity.
Is this strange teaching with a mask on?
I got to tell you, I am not a fan.
The good news is, I think the bottom half of my face is going to like lose a pound.
Because it's hot and sweaty.
It will be very, very well moisturized.
Yeah, actually, now that you mentioned it, you do glow a little.
Long time listeners will know it's probably the Korean face mask.
By the way, I wanted to say over the last week, I had two significant events that I needed to tell you guys about.
Felix, do you have a sense that she may be dropping out for the LPGA?
Oh no, no, no. She's a little early, but who knows?
Who knows? No, no, no.
The first is, Felix, I tried Tillamook ice cream.
Oh my God. And? And it is dangerously good.
It is, get that away from me good.
And what's crazy is, I had never seen it before until you mentioned it and now I see it everywhere.
Oh my God. Me here, you have to find it.
I looked a little bit and I found some other brands, but I have not yet found it.
I was thinking about just doing it online or something.
But I will look. I will continue to look.
This is totally worth it.
You have to look. Another significant event that happened was Me Here.
Even though I made fun of you, I watched the trampoline video.
Yuan Bourgeois. Yeah.
Felix, did you see this thing?
No, I didn't see it yet.
Oh my gosh. Isn't it kind of crazy?
It's crazy. It's just beautiful and really moving.
That's the one with the Philip Glass music.
And it's just a trampoline and it's a dance, but the way he uses his body and in rhythm with the music is spectacular.
Oh, it's so fantastic.
So I just wanted to commend both of you for starting out the season with two really good recommendations that improve the quality of my life, which is all that really matters.
That's what it's all about.
So before we get into tonight's episode, we all want to thank all of you out there for the incredibly kind notes on the launch of our new season.
So thank you guys so much.
The response has just been really incredible and so fast.
The episode was up for, I think, like two and a half minutes and people already started listening, started downloading, and then of course had even smarter things to say than what we talked about in the show, as usual.
And it reminds me why we do this, which is of course we love to engage with each other, but it is that broader sense of engagement with the world and with all our listeners that I think motivates us and really provides so much.
Yes. So thank you all so much.
And I always forget to do this, but a small request from us is if you like the show and you want to support it, the best way to do so is to rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts.
It really helps and we really, really appreciate it.
Thanks so much. As for tonight, what we thought we'd do is spend some time talking about China.
As most of our listeners probably know, there's been a big crackdown on everything from big tech to video gaming.
Unfortunately, we have a China expert on the mic, Felix.
We will find out. Yes.
And then there are a bunch of other headlines that I think we want to chat about briefly.
So how does that sound, guys?
That sounds great. There you go.
So China is in the middle of a regulatory crackdown that has been somewhat dizzying in scope.
The first really high profile incident involved the pulling of the ant IPO, and then it expanded to a reining in of the entire FinTech sector, a reining in of Big Tech, which has come with renewed pressure on all of those companies to start sharing their data with the Chinese government or the central
bank. Meanwhile, the government has indicated that large Chinese companies will no longer be able to go public in the US, but this has all really just been the tip of the iceberg.
The crackdown has extended to so many other sectors of the economy.
So let me just give a couple of examples so our listeners have a sense of what we're talking about here.
China's private education industry.
It's a multi -billion dollar industry.
I'm talking about things like private tutoring and private classes.
Overnight, China declared a ban on all for -profit education services.
Chinese workers tend to have a pretty brutal work schedule, often working 12 hours a day, six days a week.
China has signaled that that is no longer acceptable.
Like so many other countries, China has a big sexual harassment problem in the workforce.
China has announced that is no longer okay.
And here's one that has captured a huge amount of attention.
China has a lot of kids who play a lot of video games.
China has put in place a total ban on minors playing video games Monday through Thursday, along with a limit to the number of hours they can play on weekends, essentially an hour a day.
So Felix, what is going on here?
Put it all together, Felix.
So let me say something unhelpful to begin with.
It's China, and so it's complicated.
It's this government that has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, and it's the same government that shows other disrespect for human rights in Xinjiang and in Hong Kong and in other places.
And so whenever I hear news out of China, I think we very quickly jump to sort of it's terrible or it's a government trying to pursue policy goals that we don't agree with.
And I, for myself, I find it really helpful to start by thinking about what if I saw a particular action, say the ban of video gaming or the way companies now have to protect their data?
What if it wasn't China?
Is that a good idea?
Is that a bad idea?
And for almost, I would say maybe 90 % of the issues, what's really striking once you start thinking about that is that they're the very same issues that we worry about in the United States.
Just think about it, income inequality.
That's a concern. Bernie Sanders, AOC, so many progressive politicians think is one of the main issues.
Tech dominance, I guess most of us have become much more skeptical about the tech sector.
That's common. And then worker welfare, you know, we're protecting workers in the right way.
So on the one hand, China seems very, very different.
But the kinds of issues that the government cares about are actually almost the same issues that are at the center of policy concerns here in the United States.
What's really different is, of course, that it's the Chinese government and we're never really sure about their motivation.
And the motivation is always split.
So give you one example, China has probably around 500 million cameras observing people in public.
So it's a surveillance state in essence.
And so you think, oh my God, that's really, really terrible.
China also has 50 % of the smart cities that exist on the planet and they're using those same data to provide better social services to make life in the cities a better life.
So almost always when you look at it, it's this mixture, at least from my point of view, where I sort of see the policy goals, I see what they're trying to do.
It's more the way it's done, the way the interventions come about that I think is a bigger concern.
Felix, that's such a helpful way to think about China because it is, as you say, so polarizing.
But I guess the concern, Felix, is not just how it's done.
But this seems like a coordinated set of steps.
There's some sense in which the state is cracking down.
They're trying to exert control.
And so the question is, is it all of a piece, which is basically this state and the party asserting itself anew in a more centralized way, in a more powerful way?
So I do think it's about a new balance.
So part of the motivation is, I guess, a sense that the party is not quite as much in control as it used to be, that in particular the super rich tech entrepreneurs, that they live independent lives, share independent views in ways that the party doesn't like.
Where I'm less sure about whether it's so different from our conversation is that we now have a sense that politics is dominated by elites.
When you look at the conversation around the role of money in the United States, it has a similar flavor in a sense that a smallish groups of people have more influence than is healthy for the economy, than is healthy for politics.
And I think what's different is here in the United States we're thinking about it's us, the people who should have a bigger say.
I think it's more in China where the party gets to control.
So, Felix, I think listening to you speak about this, a couple of thoughts, and I really want to push you on this, because everything the Chinese state does, I get that it can be viewed through different lens.
So on the one hand, it is absolutely in the interest of the government to ensure societal stability.
And one of the ways to do that is to focus on the long -term well -being of the citizen rate.
But the second lens is the one that Mahir talked about, and that is to maintain control.
And Felix, this is where I really need your help because, yes, this is a country that has raised millions of people out of poverty.
The infant mortality rate in Beijing is better than in our nation's capital, and yet it's also a country where you see the kinds of horrible human rights abuses that you refer to as well.
So why shouldn't we assume that this too should be viewed primarily through the lens of control and repression and the removal of personal liberties.
And when I talk about control, I'm talking about it in the most threatening kind of way, but I'm also talking about it in just the loss of agency.
As a parent, the idea that my kids can't play video games between Monday and Thursday, awesome.
On the other hand, I don't personally think video games are all that evil, and I would love to be able to have the ability to set my own limits in my own household.
And so that's an example where the trade -off in the loss of agency and the control factor, it's not as hard -edged as some of the more repressive things you see happening in China.
But it is a form of control.
And so how do you reconcile those things in your head?
Well, I think the answer is we would like it to be clear.
The complicated truth is it's both of these things.
Like one recent example, this famous actress, Cheng Shuang, she got portrayed as not having paid her taxes and she got a $46 million fine, which you might think if this was computed correctly, that's probably okay.
But then because it's China, what also happens is that all her films disappear overnight.
So she does no longer exist as a person.
And that is the complicated thing that is China, that you have both of these things going on at one and the same time.
And I love the way you described it.
I can look at China, and I can tell both stories, and both stories will have evidence and data.
I can have anecdotes, this is all about power, I can have anecdotes, this is all about the worry of the long -term viability of the Chinese economy.
And I will find evidence for both of these things, because it's really true that the motives are mixed.
This is such a fascinating topic, and it really goes to, in these settings, kind of deep beliefs, right.
And I guess the thing I struggle with in thinking about this is that it runs against a lot of the way I think about the world, just to be honest.
So what do I mean by that?
So when we think about the story of China's success, one way to talk about it is the party did a lot.
I'll give you a different version.
China engaged with the world.
China entered the global trading system.
China enabled, beginning with Deng Xiaoping, much more freedom and much more choice.
That set of market -based moves and freedom -based moves is what generated this incredible story about infamortality in Beijing and rising wealth levels.
And now to get really grand, over the last two to three centuries, what's my understanding of the world?
My understanding of the world is the proliferation of freedom leads to more choice, leads to markets, and that leads in many ways to great outcomes.
And so when I see those getting restricted, I immediately think to myself, Felix, it can't be both ways.
You're painting a story where it's both true that the state and the center is getting more control restricting freedom, but it's for the best interests of the people.
And if I'm thinking about my...
And this is ideology.
Just to be clear, this is ideology.
My ideology is a little bit more like, well, when I look around the world, I see the expansion of freedom, and I see integration with the world.
Part of the education crackdown, Yang Mi, is about English and about limiting learning of English.
Yeah. Then I see a more insular China, and I see a little bit more of something that won't be actually good for the Chinese people.
Does that make sense?
Yeah. It makes total sense.
I think maybe unlike you, I'm probably quite influenced by this experience of Eastern Europe opening up, where you have super weak governments, essentially no economic rules.
Some people got really wealthy, but it leads to not a great economic story.
And I think to me, one of the things that I learned in the post -Berlin wall period is that you want government intervention.
You want rules of the game.
In fact, it was funny, yesterday I was walking home, I had been thinking about the China video game story, and then what do I hear in the news?
The FTC is now thinking about whether or not to allow teens to vape, because we have some concerns that it's not good for their health.
And I was just thinking, well, is that different?
I think the rhetoric is very different, and it's the ideology that supports these moves is very different.
Whether they're so different, in fact, I'm not always super sure.
I think this is such an important conversation.
In America, we have this self -image of ourselves as being at the forefront of modernity, at the forefront of progress.
In other words, there are lots of repressive countries out there that we have held in disdain because we could rightfully claim that the country was failing.
China is a repressive country that is not failing.
And I think that makes it really hard.
It's a place where the average quality of life has improved dramatically over the past couple of decades.
And that's what makes it a difficult conversation to have.
And I hope listeners don't misunderstand any of us.
I think none of us are ignoring or defending the repression that also exists in China and what continues to happen there.
But it's to Felix's point that to truly understand, China is to hold many opposing ideas in your head at the same time.
Exactly. And of course, there is a very lively debate inside China as well.
So it's not as though there's this one view in China, pro -con markets, like even your view me here, I think, would find many friends in China.
You know, what's really interesting to me about this conversation is it's about China, per se, but young me, your comments make me also realize that it's about the whole world.
Right? So let's say I get very sanguine about what's going on in China.
And I'm totally comfortable with it.
Right? That doesn't mean that I feel great about it for the world in the following sense, which is it's going to be an example that will be used around the world to justify lots of things by regimes that are a lot less benevolent than under this version, the Chinese regime is.
Even if you feel like it's a good model for China, I guess a little bit of my concern is, wait a second.
This is going to be used by ruthless people, strong men and women around the world who have much less benevolent aims and much less capabilities, frankly, than the Chinese Communist Party does.
And that's why it's about China, but it's kind of about the world.
I think your comment of broadening the lens to the entire world is so apt to me here.
One way to think about what you see happening is three very different market approaches.
So in China, over the past decade or two, we've seen this tidal wave of incredible innovation.
And now we're seeing waves of regulation to rein it all in.
In the US, we've seen a similar tidal wave of incredible innovation, but this has been accompanied by what many would regard as insufficient, inadequate regulation, the kind of slow moving regulation that has very little chance of winning the race against innovation.
And then if you look at Europe, they've been much more aggressive with regulation from the start to the extent that many would argue that the regulatory environment has stifled innovation.
And so at a super high level, what you're seeing, and again, I realize this is very overly simplistic and overlooks a lot of nuance, but it is very interesting to compare the three approaches.
Your point me here about some of these things bleeding over into having other countries emulate.
I think that is one of the many things that disturbs me about what I see in China, along with it just feels like a violation of so many personal liberties.
And it is, right? Yeah.
It is, you know, even if you look at these anonymous to the extent that we have anonymous data out of China, but even say like the survey in state, all the cameras everywhere, deeply, deeply unpopular, right?
So the idea that the government follows you every step of your life, I don't know if anyone is in love with that idea, and China is no different.
It is then of course that you also see when now you have an electronic social security card that allows you to get services in a completely novel, different way.
Those are the kinds of things we love.
And what's maybe tragic from the perspective of Chinese people is it always comes as a bundle.
You can't pick and choose, right?
It comes with the dark side and the dark side is doubling down on the power and the influence of the party.
Yeah. I guess the fascinating thing to me about all this is the economic story of our lifetimes so far has been the rise of China, has to be.
And it feels like the next 20 or 30 years, it's about the political economic navigation of that wealth and that status by China that will come to dominate our imaginations because how it plays out matters enormously for an enormously important country, China, but it's going to matter for everybody.
Yeah. And we can consult Felix in the future to figure it out.
Yeah, exactly. Thanks, guys.
Okay. So every week, the three of us, we all come across headlines that catch our eye.
We find ourselves wanting to talk about them, but they don't necessarily merit a deep dive.
So we're just going to run through a few of the quirkier ones or some of the ones that stood out first over the past week and see what we think about them.
That's great. Okay.
So first, it seems that every week there is a new headline, usually involving a video of someone behaving really badly, typically in an airplane, just having a fit to the point where they have to be tied down by the flight attendants.
What is your theory for why we have forgotten how to behave in public?
Well, I got to say, I have two kind of take is it's kind of like the thin veneer of civilization.
You scratch a little bit beneath the surface and everyone's a brute.
But I think actually what's really going on is severe anxiety and mental health issues that have been building up over COVID.
And by the way, these trends are real.
The data for the FAA on incidents on planes is real.
They are going through the roof.
I think part of it is people have forgotten how to behave, but I think we should be a little bit more charitable.
It's a manifestation of deep stress and deep anxiety.
And then you put some people into a tight metal tube that's shuttling through the air at 36 ,000 feet and then people just go a little longer.
What I often think about is, why do we love watching?
Yeah, exactly. Like we click the moment we see a headline that screams or a passenger that screams in an airline, but the real puzzle is like, why do we sit there mesmerized when people get back?
I click on everyone.
I do too. I can't. I do too.
I know. It reminds me, if you've ever raised a toddler, I mean, this is what a tantrum looks like.
And I think this goes back to the conversation we were having about personal liberties.
In our country, we feel so entitled to our personal liberties.
I think we've had to stifle a lot of urges over the last year and a half.
And now that the restrictions have been loosened somewhat, but not altogether, we're all just acting up.
And what I am struck by is how much anger there is.
And we are not just angry at the pandemic.
We are angry at each other.
This is not like a hurricane where you blame mother nature.
We are blaming each other for this.
And I think that's my theory on why there is so much anger.
Because there's someone to direct the anger to.
And we have drawn very divisive lines in this country.
And I think what I'm puzzled by is, we have so many coordination issues where we agree on rules.
It's a good idea that everybody drives on the right side.
It's a good idea that you wear a seat belt.
Like, how did some of these coordination issues that we have to solve now?
Like how is it that these completely irregular commonplace coordination issues create these emotions?
And it's not as if it's a surprise.
I mean, when you book a flight, you actually have to check a box saying that you understand what the rules are going to be.
I know. Well, but I think part of it is because there are political leaders who sew division and gain power by linking what are relatively commonplace issues with some larger narrative about the way the state is, is what happens all over the world in a way, right?
Like they're sewing division, right?
I mean, that's what they're doing.
Yeah, it feeds right into it.
Okay, another headline.
Fox is starting a weather channel.
Oh my God. So, Rupert Murdoch has announced the launch of Fox Weather, a 24 -hour streaming channel that promises to do for weather what Fox has done for politics, for financial news, and sports.
Of course, the weather channel is the legacy player here and its ratings are up.
So, yes, rest assured, as we have more disruptive weather events, the disasters will be televised by Fox Weather.
My prediction is this is a candidate for the worst business idea this year.
Really? Oh my gosh.
I mean, the weather channel is the 46th most watched cable channel in the US.
Yeah, but it's very lucrative.
I guess I thought it was kind of brilliant in its own way.
I mean, in the following sense, two things.
First, it drives a lot of engagement.
People are engaged about the weather, and maybe moreover, in a weird way, a manifestation of the importance of climate change, like weather has become news in its own right.
And so I actually thought the weather channel, first off, needs some competition.
And B, actually making climate -induced weather changes, something that everyone starts to understand better, could be great for the world.
So, I guess I was a little bit more intrigued by it.
What did you make of it, young me?
I was super intrigued by it.
I do see the business opportunity here.
So, one of the things that happened over the pandemic is there were a few occasions on which I watched the local news on television while I was at home.
And if you watch the local news, in a 30 -minute segment, you'll get the weather four times.
I mean, it's unbelievable how much weather you get.
It's all weather. And it used to be, we live in Boston, where bad weather is quite normal.
It used to be that when bad weather came, bad weather came, and now there's the storm center and this flashing news updates, and there's the graphics, and they've really created a lot of production value around weather.
I mean, I can imagine Fox taking this to the next level.
The second thought I had was I was just thinking about what this does to the climate change conversation in our society.
So, if you think about many Fox News commentators, including their biggest ones, like Tucker Carlson, they have very explicitly downplayed, if not denied the threat of climate change.
And I don't know how you continue to do that while you're hosting a 24 -hour weather channel that is hyping lots and lots of climate activity.
Well, so, let me just say why I'm still skeptical.
I don't buy any of it.
So, it is true, of course, climate change -related.
There are many more weather events.
But I think it'll be interesting to see how many weather events a thousand miles away from where you live.
Can you watch a day?
If the weather is in Texas, I don't really care.
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting what you're pointing to, Felix, because I think what Youngmi and I sense is that at the local level, it's driving huge engagement on local news.
And your point seems to be, yeah, but who cares about it at a national level?
Because the weather channel has to be national, right, by its nature.
I don't know. I mean, my instinct is the weather channel is not great because it's not great.
I mean, it doesn't mean that weather is not great.
And I think that's what Murdoch is trying to work on.
But think about the numbers for local news.
I mean, no one watches.
There's still pretty good, but some of them are going to be great businesses.
Yeah, guys, we will see how this plays out because this thing is supposed to launch any day now, this fall.
Okay, next story is last season, we talked about NFTs.
Remember that? Yeah.
So, all of us noticed that in the past week or so, Visa just bought a random NFT.
It bought a crypto punk, which is an NFT -based digital avatar.
That is all the rage among the crypto community.
But they're not the only ones.
So Budweiser, Arizona iced tea, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, all these guys have purchased NFTs and are in many cases using them to replace their image in their social media profiles.
So what was your reaction to this?
You know, what do I think about this first?
I think it's like a nice PR stunt.
I think it's like free publicity.
I am just so deeply skeptical on many of those aspects of NFTs that I find it hard to think about as being substantive.
With the caveat that the most interesting thing about crypto is the potential for creating ownership of digital assets.
Is that going to be a big deal?
Yes. Does it have anything to do with these folks buying these pieces of art?
I don't think so. I think it's a bunch of free publicity.
Visa spent $150 ,000 and it's probably the best $150 ,000 they spent on advertising in the last 10 years.
That's my very cynical take.
And we talk about it.
And we're talking about it.
We're making a payoff in return on investment.
I remember your prediction, Meir, when we first talked about NFTs, where there was sort of a sense that yes, it's in the end about the ownership or the claim to ownership to a digital asset, but at the same time, how many people have what kind of a willingness to pay to say, and I own that thing.
Because after that first flurry, you remember like the very first tweet for $3 million, the Bipul art piece for $70 million.
Essentially, the market went away.
What are you guys talking about?
NFTs are hotter than ever.
Well, people are making them and they're trying to get people to buy those.
Are you kidding? OpenSea did $200 million last month in fees associated with the exchange of NFTs.
But if you look at the number of transactions, it's highly volatile.
That's an understatement.
I still continue to be excited about the fact that artists might have better ways to capture the value that they create over a long time.
I think that's really interesting.
Is it a big story? Probably not.
Yeah. So as the person who is probably the most enthusiastic about NFTs in the group and believe truly that they are here to stay, I 100 % agree with me here that this is the best $150 ,000 marketing spend a company could ever make.
But I also think it speaks to something larger that's going on among many, many companies right now, which is you will find so many people who will express intense skepticism about not just NFTs, but the whole crypto community and what's happening within it.
And yet I think there's also a tiny voice inside all of their heads.
Yeah, exactly. Wait, what if I'm wrong?
What if I'm completely wrong?
And is there a way I can begin to sort of hedge my pets here and not look like a complete fool if it turns out that I am very, very wrong on this?
It's so funny. So it's like Pascal's wager, right?
Like, I don't know if there's a God or not, but there might be.
Exactly. I mean, the number of people, for example, I know who are really dubious about crypto, but have bought a little crypto is not insignificant.
So, okay, last one, I have to ask you about this one.
Boston Dynamics is a robotics company.
And from time to time, they put out a video demonstrating what their robots which are sort of humanoid like creatures can do.
So they've put out videos of them running, for example, or dancing, but the latest one they put out really freaked people out and we will post a video of it.
It's a these robots doing parkour.
They're jumping around, they're off balance, they're doing flips.
So what I'm sure you guys saw this on social media, like, what did you think when you saw this?
I mean, one is it's fascinating.
It's beautiful. It's really amazing.
When you first see it, it's too good to be true.
And then, of course, I remember, in one of my feeds, the next thing that you see is when they fail to do all of these things.
Which we see that second video.
But it's also fun to watch.
It's also fun to watch.
And it just gives you a sense, oh my God, the engineering that goes into this.
It's just amazing. It's really incredible.
I think the two things that I loved about it is first, it was like watching a video game.
Like you couldn't tell whether the robot was real or was it CGI?
And it was really fantastic for that reason.
But the other thing I just loved about it is, you know, sometimes I can be like a little bit of a Luddite and anti -technology guy.
But look, this is the kind of stuff which I just love because I see the physical tactile manifestation of technology and it's spectacular.
The part of the story that I loved, I'll just mention briefly, is so Boston Dynamics comes out of MIT in the early 1990s, early 2010s, who buys them?
Google. Late 2010s, who buys them from Google?
Softbank. What happens earlier this year?
Softbank sells to who?
Hyundai. And so, I don't know, there's something about that little pattern that just struck me as emblematic of everything in the world.
I just loved the idea that Google, Softbank, and now Hyundai own this incredible company.
I love that too here.
And I remember one of the bigger debates around the whole robot space was, does it make more sense to build these really highly specialized robots or more general purpose robots?
And that conversation kind of went away because most of the robots we see and use today, like in factories and in warehouses and things, they're really, really specialized.
Like they do a specific set of tasks in a pretty repetitive way.
And this was the first time I started to really reimagine what a general purpose robot can be.
If you talk to Boston Dynamics, they say that there are a lot of jobs that general purpose robots are perfect for because they're super dangerous for humans.
Like search and rescue or imagine having to go into a nuclear reactor in the middle of a meltdown or something.
So these are jobs that require like extreme mobility.
And so they talk about that.
But when I saw it, all I could think of is, I want one in my house.
Like I don't need it to have AI.
I don't need it to like know me or predict me.
I just need it to do exactly what, you know, see that thing on that top shelf I can't reach.
Go get that. And in a way, I was also so thrilled to see the video because when I saw that Hyundai bought Boston Dynamics and you know, the automobile industry is basically using robots, very highly specialized, not multitasking.
And so I thought, oh my God, what a shame.
And then to see the video that is so different, much more along the lines of the guy you want for your house, Youngmee.
I think I was really excited.
I have to say, I think Youngmee, I guess it's called Atlas.
Is his name Atlas, is the robot?
I can't remember. Yeah, I think so.
Yeah. So it's not Atlas, but the dog spot.
Which is spectacular.
But that is available.
My understanding is they are thinking about retailing that for 75K.
Wow. Oh my God, that's my next pet.
Okay. Thanks guys. We will be back with recommendations.
Okay, so picks for this week.
I'm here. What did you bring in?
You know, something a little bit more serious.
So in the last couple of months, it's been hard to overlook how much 9 -11 shaped our world from a geopolitical perspective.
But with the 20th anniversary, there were these two, I think much more personal accounts that were so beautiful.
So one is by Jen Senor in the Atlantic magazine, and it's called What Bobby McElveen Left Behind.
And it is a story of her getting to know a family who lost a son on 9 -11.
And how all the different family members, including a fiance, reacted to that loss.
One went down a rabbit hole of conspiracy.
One actually found a way to find generosity out of this moment.
And it's literally one of the best pieces of writing I've ever read.
And it's so beautiful.
Oh, did you read it?
I did the story of the journal.
The journal is like, it's crazy.
Oh my goodness. And the way she wrapped it.
It's Epicenter's 9 -11 movie is the most beautiful love letter to New York City.
And his point in a way is aftermath of 9 -11, the whole country says we are all New Yorkers.
And 20 years later, what happened to that spirit?
And so both of those pieces at a very micro level to examine what 9 -11 did to people's lives, I think is really fantastic.
Two different versions of that same kind of theme.
Oh, great. That's a great recommendation.
So Yang -mi, you started us off at the beginning of the show talking about recommendations that we made earlier.
And I wanted to talk about the recommendation that I got from you.
One of my most enjoyable viewing experience this summer was this Korean show Crash Landing on You.
So my sisters listened to this podcast, Felix.
They're going to want to call you and talk to you about the show.
I had so much fun watching it for people who haven't seen it.
The premise is a young woman who runs a big business in South Korea, she tests hand gliding equipment and it so happens that there is a tornado.
She gets carried into North Korea.
Of course. I'm sticking with you.
I'm with you, right?
So just let me say, like two things I absolutely love about the show.
The show in a very interesting way makes fun of itself.
And it uses the difference between North and South Korea, all the kinds of things that presumably you don't understand if you don't know South Korea very well.
The puzzling habits, how people relate to one another, seen through the eyes, mostly of North Korean soldiers, it's just like the parody is priceless.
I'll give one example where they explain, you know, like in a South Korean drama, whenever people fall in love, there's snow.
And so every time you see a romantic scene and you're just about to be touched and teary eyed, of course, the snow is falling and you can't help but having this distance to what you're watching, because, you know, oh, yeah, that's the part where they fall in love and there's snow.
The story touches on Switzerland a little bit.
And I don't know if you've been in Zurich, like one of the things that is really awful for foreigners in Zurich is if you have a big suitcase, the trams, the local public transportation is just terrible.
And so the show picks up on these small things.
It's done with such care.
You see the young woman with a big suitcase, she almost falls out of the tram.
And it's like all of this commentary on cultural differences and how people relate to one another just like absolutely fantastic.
If your sister is going to call me, she better be ready for like an eight hour conversation.
Yeah, I'm here. I got to tell you, a lot of people in my world watch K -dramas.
Yeah. And the peer pressure to watch the show is unbelievable.
And I tried, but in that first episode when she was on that parachute and she's drifting into North Korea and lands in North Korea, I thought I'm done.
I can put up with a lot of plots, but I mean, come on.
That's hilarious. But I'm getting so much pressure to go back and watch the show.
I think it's bearable because you see that the show doesn't take itself seriously.
If this was like a serious attempt to tell some sort of a drama, I think it would fail miserably.
But the distance that the show has to its own plot, it's just really interesting.
Sounds great. I'm actually not sure what the recommendation is.
Very different. Although it's on Netflix and it is a show called Formula One Drive to Survive.
I am not kidding you guys.
I am really into F1 racing now.
So what happened was during the pandemic at one point I sent out a tweet saying, hey, I am running out of things to watch.
Does anybody have any recommendations?
And aside from the many people who recommended Crash Landing on you, there were a sizable number of people who recommended this Netflix show on Formula One Racing.
And so with my husband, I just started watching it and I got so addicted that now on Sundays, I have been known to wake up and watch Formula One Racing.
Nice. The real thing.
The real thing. It's a gateway to Formula One generally.
Yes. Mercedes and Red Bull are neck and neck this season.
And there's just this epic competition between Lewis Hamilton, who is one of the best drivers in history and this newcomer, Max Verstappen.
And they're vying for...
I'm talking about the real season, but the show takes you through some of the other seasons.
And one of the things I love about the show is that the focus is not on necessarily the best drivers or the winners.
It's on everybody. And it's just this whole world.
I don't know what's happened to me.
I am not part of the normal demographic for this show and I get that, but I am addicted to the show.
So that's my life now.
Golf and F1 racing, that's what I've become, guys.
I don't... Just add a dash of North Korea and it would be perfect.
Oh, there you go. So anyway, you guys have to watch it.
I've heard great things.
So actually I am kind of intrigued by that one.
Okay. That's it for tonight.
We're running out of time.
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Thanks everyone for listening.
This is After Hours from the TED Audio Collective.
