Before we get started with this episode, I have a quick announcement and great news for all of our listeners in Korea.
Finally, the day has come.
That's right.
We're finally going to do a QLips meetup right here in Seoul.
Over the last few years, we've had really fun meetups in Osaka Hamburg, Prague and Tokyo.
But now it's finally Sol's turn, and I couldn't be more excited.
The meetup is happening on Sunday, July 19th at 2 p.m.
I'm going to be there.
Cassie will also be there too.
And the event is free and open to anyone.
It doesn't matter whether you are a Q-Lips member or not, or whether you're a beginner or intermediate or an advanced speaker.
It doesn't matter at all.
Anybody is welcome.
During the meetup, we'll play some games and do some activities together.
We'll mix and mingle and it will just be a great time for Cassie and I to meet you and for you to meet me and meet Cassie and other Q-Lips listeners also.
I'll see you next time. full for the RSVP list.
So if you'd like to participate, I recommend RSVPing sooner than later, because I anticipate that the event will sell out, so to speak.
If you live far away from Seoul, I'm really sorry that it might be difficult for you to participate in this meetup, but I hope I can do more meetups in the future with our awesome listeners from around the world in different cities sometime in the near future.
Anyways, I hope to see many of you guys in Seoul on July 19th.
And now let's get started with this episode.
Hello everyone and welcome to Chatterbox, the Q-Loop series for intermediate to advanced English learners that features natural English conversations about really super fascinating topics like trends culture, hot issues, current events and more.
I'm Andrew, and today I'll be joined in just a second by my co-host, Anna.
I've got a question for you.
Have you ever Googled your symptoms when you were feeling sick?
I think most of us have, and most of us know that it's not the greatest idea, because the internet is very good at convincing you that a tiny headache means you're about to die.
But these days, more and more people are skipping Google entirely and going straight to ChatGPT instead.
And that raises a really interesting question.
Is asking an AI chatbot about your health any safer than asking Dr. Google?
Or could it actually be worse?
Today, Anna and I are going to discuss this, and we'll share our opinions about whether we'd ever trust an AI with something as important and precious as our health.
Before we get started with the conversation if you're serious about improving your English, becoming a Q-Lips member is a great way to do it.
Members get a study guide and an interactive transcript for this lesson, plus access to our weekly speaking classes, where you can practice with our teachers and other serious English learners just like yourself, plus so much more.
Sign up at QLips.com and a huge thanks to the members out there.
Guys, we really appreciate your support and we couldn't do QLips without you.
So thank you so, so much.
All right, it's talk time.
Here's my conversation with Anna.
Enjoy.
And joining me now to talk all about AI and healthcare, and answering the question can you trust AI with your healthcare?
Is my co-host, Anna.
Hey, Anna, how's it going?
Hello, Andrew.
I'm very good.
How are you?
I'm doing pretty good, Anna, but I'm not perfect today.
I'm not perfect.
I have actually a little health issue and it's kind of perfect timing for this episode.
Now, guys, don't get worried.
I'm okay.
I think this isn't a major thing or anything, but I have had over the last week Anna, this weird trauma twitch in my bottom eyelid.
A weird twitch in my bottom eyelid.
So I don't know exactly why that's happening or what the cause is, but it's really annoying me.
It's driving me crazy.
Have you ever had anything like that?
Like a weird little muscle twitch?
Yeah, I have.
I don't get it over a continuous period of time, though.
So yeah, you should probably get that checked out, Andrew.
Or ask ChatGPT, as we're going to talk about today.
Yeah, so maybe this is a good place to start because...
Over the last little while probably about a week, I would say I have noticed that my eye started to do this weird little twitch on just the bottom eyelid.
So guys, your eyelid is divided into two parts, right?
You have your upper eyelid, which I think we usually think of as being like the main eyelid, but then there's that little part under your eye as well that protects the bottom of your eye.
And we never really think about this part of our body.
I think it's like a really...
A part that we take for granted a lot of times.
And so, for whatever reason, on my left side there's like a little muscle or little nerve in there that is just kind of twitch twitch, twitch.
And it's not painful at all.
It's just annoying.
And it's not like super strong.
It's not like it's closing my eye or anything, but it's just enough to cause a disturbance.
And so, Anna, when this started happening, and I have to say, this is the second time it's happened.
It happened last year, and then it went away.
And I thought, okay, that's that.
But now it's back again.
So when it started happening just a few days ago, that's what I did.
I turned to AI.
And I think when we say AI these days, when we talk about AI, we're talking about the big three mostly Chachapiti, Gemini and Claude.
And I go back and forth between which one I use, but the...
AI of the day right now is Gemini.
So I asked Gemini about this.
I asked it what causes bottom eyelid twitches and how it can be stopped.
And what it said was that the flutter in your lower eye is incredibly annoying, but the good news is that it's almost always harmless.
The medical term for this is myokymia.
I don't know how to pronounce that.
M-Y-O-K-Y-M-I-A.
Myokymia.
Anyways, it's a temporary misfiring of the nerves that control your eyelid muscles.
And here are the triggers.
Anna, actually, I want to play a little guessing game with you.
Can you guess what the triggers for this are?
Stress.
Uh-huh.
And?
And lack of sleep.
Okay, two for two.
So far okay, two for two.
And stress, lack of sleep.
And there's one more big one.
Oh, i'm not sure you're gonna.
I give in what.
What is the third one?
Too much caffeine.
Excess caffeine.
Of course.
That makes total sense.
Hmm.
All right.
So when I think about my lifestyle these days...
Am I a little bit tired?
Yes.
Am I stressed?
Yes.
Do I drink too much coffee to compensate for both of these things?
Yes.
And then there's another minor cause to this and that is having dry eyes.
And here in south korea recently, suddenly it got super hot and it's been just boiling hot, and so we've had to turn on the air conditioning, actually really early, like much earlier than usual, and because of the air conditioning being on, i've noticed that my eyes are feeling dry as well.
So i think it's this perfect storm.
All of these things are happening at once.
And so I thought that was a pretty good diagnosis.
And I'm gonna try and sleep a little more.
The weekend's coming up, so I'm gonna try and get some good rest this weekend.
I'm gonna try to reduce my stress as much as possible.
Easier said than done, but I'll try and do that.
And the hardest one is to reduce my caffeine.
I don't know.
I can't quit coffee.
It's impossible.
But maybe I could go from two.
I only drink two cups a day, which I don't think is that much.
Well, that's not too bad.
Jeez.
I thought you were going to say 10.
Oh, my goodness.
Two is... Two double espressos.
So it's more like...
Four shots of espresso.
So maybe I'll try to take that down to just one double espresso per day and see if that helps.
And if it doesn't go away, then I'll visit the doctor after that.
But yeah, it's very good timing to talk about this issue because.
Yeah, yeah.
Obviously, that was the first thing I did was turn to Dr. Gemini instead of the real doctor.
Right?
Yeah.
How about you?
Have you ever had this kind of experience using AI for your health care?
Definitely.
And I think that's the interesting thing, isn't it about?
What you were saying is, your first port of call was okay.
I'm just going to check it out and see what it says.
And actually what you've decided is, well, that information is good enough for me for now.
I'll see how it goes.
And then I'll visit a doctor, rather than the first reaction normally maybe in the past would have been right need to make an appointment with someone.
In the UK, we say GP, which is general practitioner.
These are the doctors that are in your neighborhood and they have a small surgery and you go there and you see the doctor.
So yeah, absolutely.
I've had experiences like that.
In fact recently.
For me, the main thing that I've used it for is because I've just recently got invisible braces.
And I had so many questions about hygiene, the best way to look after them, questions about okay, if this is going on, does it mean that there's a problem?
So I think it's a wonderful first port of call, but we kind of have used it like this in the past with Google.
I wouldn't say it's so different than what we were doing before, because most people would just go online and they would Google something if they had a problem.
It's just now that it's organized in a way that is more like a conversation, right?
So I don't think it's actually that different, but maybe the information is better, more personalized, perhaps.
But that's the interesting thing.
When do you go to a doctor and when do you just stick with AI?
Because it isn't a doctor.
That's the thing we always have to remember.
It is not a doctor.
I think one of the problematic areas, though, is how confident the AI is in its response.
Yeah.
So it feels like an authority.
It feels like it's knowledgeable and wise.
Just... with how confident and how well it answers our questions, right?
And this is not just about medicine, but about a lot of things.
It will answer with this really brazen confidence.
And so it makes us feel like, okay, this chatbot knows what it's talking about.
It's an expert almost.
However, we know that that's not real.
That's just its tone of voice.
That's just the way that it's programmed to respond.
And so we have to be really, really careful, I think.
And maybe in our cases, like a little eye twitch or some questions about braces, these are not life or death situations.
At least I hope, right?
Knock on wood.
I think we'll be okay if we have a little issue with our eyelid or braces, but what about for more serious medical conditions?
Yeah, sure.
But I mean, this is the thing, though, you say, oh, but it's not serious.
But this is the thing that you don't know, because sometimes serious conditions can start with a very small symptom, or there can be just a little sign.
And it can actually lead to something later down the line.
And, of course, another thing to think about is that when you go and see a doctor, it's a different experience.
Hopefully they have Not always, but often they will have your medical history.
Of course, you could add that into chat GPT as well, but there's a different level of care there.
And it comes back to the same point I was saying before.
It is not a doctor.
And, like you said, even though it feels like that and it's an authority and it's diagnosing you and it's giving you all of this information Yeah, the question then becomes when do you go to the doctor and when do you just sit there and have chat GPT.
My question is I wonder if in the future we'll find out that there have been either either people are making better healthcare decisions because of AI or that maybe there's big, serious conditions that are missed.
It'll be interesting to see how that plays out over time.
I guess we won't really know now.
But I would be interested to get a doctor's opinion, actually.
Maybe they love AI.
Maybe they're like, oh, it's perfect because less people come to the surgery.
I have fewer appointments because often these types of doctors are completely overrun.
They're, you know, typically in the UK, for example, GPs.
It's impossible to book an appointment with a GP.
It's so busy.
So, of course, people turn to AI.
Because that's where you're going to get your information first.
You get it at the click of a button and you can self-diagnose.
But it'd be interesting to see what doctors think.
I don't know.
I guess it's a double-edged sword like always.
Yeah, I would be very interested to find that out as well.
And you raise, I think, two interesting points here that I'd like to explore a little bit more.
So the first point is...
Should we hold the companies who make and produce these AI chatbots?
Should we hold them responsible for warning users that this is not medical advice?
Like when I asked Gemini, let me just check again, did it give me any kind of warning? no no it gave me absolutely no warning it just answered that that that lower eyelid flutter is annoying but it's almost always harmless so that's the first sentence that it responded to me with maybe google should be a little bit more responsible and they could recognize that i asked a medical question and they could put a little pop-up like Okay, we'll answer the question, but this is not a doctor, right?
Like take this with a grain of salt.
Maybe the AI company should be doing something like that.
I'm wondering if that should be the case.
Like maybe that could be good.
Yeah, no, I 100% agree with that.
Because I think when I use AI, sometimes it has a little warning, but it's like the typical thing, the small print, right.
It's right at the end.
Nobody sees it.
But you could argue.
Well, that should maybe be right at the beginning so that that frames the whole advice that people are reading right.
So it could come at the As you said, take it with a grain of salt.
This is just based on information that the AI has gathered.
It's not a doctor, etc., etc., because doctors are liable.
That's another difference as well, right?
If they treat you and there's a problem with your treatment, they'll be investigated and something bad happens, of course.
They are investigated and they are liable for your care.
So yeah, I totally agree with that.
There should be a warning or a piece of guidance about AI and medical advice.
Absolutely agree on that.
Yeah.
It makes me think of the social media community Reddit online.
And Reddit's a fun place to hang out sometimes and to browse through the different posts.
And sometimes people ask legal questions on Reddit, like, what should I do about this situation?
And When I read a lot of those kinds of posts asking for legal advice about a variety of different kinds of circumstances, but a lot of people they respond with the acronym IANAL.
IANAL.
I am not a lawyer or I'm not a lawyer.
And so that's kind of a little disclaimer like here's my advice what you should do in this legal situation.
But I'm not a lawyer.
So don't hold me responsible.
So people do that when they respond to these serious questions online.
But it's interesting that the chatbots don't like Google doesn't say I'm not a doctor, right?
It just is giving me confident advice.
So very interesting.
The second thing I wanted to circle back and talk about that you mentioned was the doctor's perspective, because I think this is really fascinating.
And perhaps this will be the future of medicine going forward is Using AI as a screener, the screener step before visiting the doctor.
So I talked recently with a relative of mine back home in Canada who had recently gone to a clinic.
And a clinic is what we call like kind of the first step in Canada. for getting medical attention.
It's like a small doctor's office.
Usually at a clinic there will be four or five doctors who are employed there and they just do general service.
They're not specialists.
They're, like you said, GPs, general practitioners.
And yeah, this relative was at the clinic and visited the doctor and the doctor had a sign in their office that said you can only ask two questions maximum, because they're so overrun with people who need to get care from the doctors.
And it's so hard to see a doctor that you can't just go in there And you're like okay doc, now that I've got your attention, I've got this issue and this issue, and this issue and this issue, like the appointment or the visit, would go on forever and ever right.
So in order to keep things snappy, you're in and out and you can only ask two questions, which...
I'm sure the doctors don't like that.
They probably wanna give good care to their patients and they probably get a lot of complaints about this.
It sucks from the patient's perspective as well, right?
You feel like...
It's difficult to see a doctor and then you finally get to see one and you can't have a good enough consultation time to get the proper care you feel like you need and deserve.
So I'm wondering.
I know in our countries, in Canada, in the UK unfortunately, we have a lot of problems with our medical systems these days and seeing a doctor is difficult.
And yeah, could this not be a solution maybe is to have...
Not just a general AI like we're using, like a ChatGPT or a Gemini, but to have a more specifically trained AI screener that could sort who has really serious problems and needs to spend time with a doctor and who really just needs some cold medicine or something and to sleep for a day.
Yeah, well, there's two things I say about that.
The first thing is it reminds me of this concept of digital twin, which is where people create a complete digital copy of themselves.
So people have started doing this in the.
It means that when people, for example in a company, when the boss is not available, you go to the digital twin of the boss and you ask them a question.
So definitely, I think that you could create a digital twin of a doctor and then you could maybe use that to filter people out.
And the second thing I would say is to an extent, systems like that already exist.
For example, there's a phone line that you can call in the UK, which is called 111.
And this is a non-emergency line.
So this is, for example, if you have a cold or something like this, it's not life or death.
We have a different number for that.
And what they do is, when you call that line, you don't actually speak to a clinician most of the time.
You'll speak to a call advisor that follows essentially a flow chart of different symptoms.
So they'll ask you questions and they'll go through the flow chart.
And at the end of the flow chart, they'll get a result.
And then they will either filter you to speak to a doctor or not.
I think that's how it works as far as I'm aware.
So things like this already exist in some way.
But I do think that Yeah, I mean, why not?
Maybe that is the future.
Maybe we'll just have digital twin doctors and the doctors will only see the most serious cases.
But the two questions thing, I feel like I understand it, but I'm like, good grief.
I mean, you know, you finally get an appointment with the doctor.
What, they kick you out after two questions?
They're like, yeah, sorry, that's your second question then.
Off you trot.
I mean, I would be really annoyed if I was a patient, but I do see where they're coming from.
It is very hard to access this type of first port of call medical attention in the UK.
Anyway that I can speak for.
Here in Spain too, I think they have similar points here around that.
But yeah, I mean, that...
I guess it will affect healthcare and AI will be widespread within healthcare too.
I guess it's just different though.
It's not the same as using AI for administration in a business, as it is for giving medical advice right.
It is different because of the liability and because of the seriousness potentially, right?
You could ask AI something and it could tell you to go to the hospital when it's not necessary, or the opposite way around.
Oh, it doesn't matter.
You'll be fine.
And then you get sepsis and you die in like six hours or something like this.
I don't know.
So it is different in my view.
It's not the same as AI for general things that have no impact really.
Yeah.
And in general, what kind of person are you when it comes to visiting the doctor?
Are you one of those people who go to the doctor for every little small thing that you know?
You got a headache or a cough, go to the doctor.
Or are you one of those people who...
He's very stubborn and refuses to go to the doctor and holds out as long as possible and only goes if it's absolutely necessary.
Or maybe you're somewhere in between.
Where do you fall on that spectrum?
It's a really good question.
I'll be interested to see where you fit on that spectrum Andrew, because normally we're kind of the same.
But I'd be interested to know.
For me, I am absolutely not a hypochondriac, which is what we would call somebody that kind of always thinks that they have something wrong.
I luckily also as well, because I'm at the moment very healthy.
So I'm very grateful for that.
I don't, I haven't needed to visit the doctor, but you know, no, I won't go to the doctor for things like colds, you know, minor ailments.
Like I just can't be bothered, you know, I'm not going to go there and book an appointment.
It's like, what's the point?
But then again, sometimes if there is something like I had something with my tooth that was, it was really painful.
So like I kind of had to, so I would rather not go if I don't have to.
That's my perspective on it.
And also I think I don't want to, because I used to work in healthcare as well.
I also think I don't want to use the resources for things that are unnecessary.
That's my perspective, because I know how many when I used to work in healthcare.
I know how many appointments were just taken up with really minor things that really didn't need to be dealt with.
But i absolutely support people's right to go and speak to a doctor if they want to at the same time.
But i'm definitely more in the second camp, andrew only go if you really have to.
What about you?
It's hard to say what I would be like if I lived in Canada versus living in Korea, because the healthcare systems well, they do have some similarities in that they're public funded.
They're very different and it's super easy to see a doctor in Korea.
Now, maybe it depends on the kind of doctor you need, the kind of care you need.
I'm not sure.
Thankfully, I haven't had to see a doctor for any serious issues.
So I'm not sure, you know, as the severity or the specialization of your medical issue, you know, becomes apparent yeah, more specialized, maybe it's more difficult.
So I can't speak to that.
However, I can speak to just going to see a doctor for a little thing like a cold or headache or flu or something.
And I in canada, i don't think i would ever go to the doctor for this kind of situation, just because, like you said, it's difficult to see a doctor and i think many canadians we have the attitude like this is just a small little thing, like just deal with it and it will go away in a couple of days.
So I think if I lived in Canada that would probably be my attitude and I probably wouldn't go to the doctor unless it was super serious.
However, here in Korea...
I can go to a clinic that's right across the road from my home, like a 200 meter walk away, and I can see a doctor within five, 10 minutes.
Wow uh, the doctors here in korea, when you have a cold or you have like a slight flu or something.
I don't know what this is and i've talked about it here on culips before i call it.
I have a nickname for it.
I call it the miracle butt shot Because it's like a steroid shot that is administered into your rear end.
Like it's really funny.
The doctor always says oh, go with the nurse and you go into a little booth and she gives you a shot into your rear end.
So it's pretty funny.
Okay.
But this steroid shot is like a miracle.
You feel better after 10 minutes.
So you'll be like, you know... fevered and headache and sore throat and like all stuffed up.
And then 10 minutes later, you're like, okay, I'm ready to run a marathon.
I'm good to go.
So because of this miracle I don't know, i haven't really figured out what's in this shot and maybe it wouldn't be legal in a different country.
I'm not sure, but it's legal in korea and it's great, i swear by it, i love it and so yeah, why suffer for a few days when i can go and and get that treatment and then you only have to pay i don't know like the equivalent of maybe four or five american dollars.
So you know, you're in and out really quick.
It's convenient and you feel better super, super quickly.
So because of that yeah, I do go to the doctor, even for little things that I would probably not go to the doctor for back in Canada.
Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on the system, right?
So I guess, if you're listening to this and you're like, Oh well, actually it's really easy to access a doctor,
So you would that encourages you to go more bright.
And if it's a very efficient system and you can see them quickly and they deal with the problem, then of course you're going to, you're going to use that.
But yeah, I absolutely tried to avoid going to the doctor if I don't have to.
But at the same time, I wouldn't put it off.
Like if there was something that was painful or something that I felt was a bit suspicious, like I would go.
I'm not kind of one of these people that just puts it off and puts it off and puts it off.
And then, you know, you end up having a much bigger problem in the end.
But I do understand because some people feel embarrassed.
They don't like going to the doctor.
Even though the doctors always tell you they're like look, I deal with this type of thing all the time.
Nothing's new.
I've seen every different type of illness or ailment or whatever.
So there's no need to be embarrassed or worried or scared.
But people do have that phobia of going to the doctor and the dentist and things like that.
So I totally get it.
But yeah.
No, I like to just use the minimal amount of healthcare I can, especially because it's the public system.
So I just like to use it as and when necessary.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And I think that's a good attitude to have to not take the resources away from someone who really needs it.
Right.
Yeah.
I think maybe just to put a bow on this and bring it to an end here.
Anna, it's an interesting thing to think about.
This medical phobia, right, or this phobia of visiting the doctor or this embarrassment.
Maybe AI can have a big role to play here as well, because you always hear those stories of like somebody who died early from cancer or something, because maybe they didn't go get their colonoscopy.
Is that what it's called?
Colonoscopy?
Yeah, sure.
Because it is a little bit of an embarrassing thing to have to do.
I went through it last year and it's not pleasant, but...
You know, it's actually kind of a crisis these days.
I've heard that colon cancer rates are through the roof.
So everybody's saying you have to go get one.
You have to get checked out when you hit a certain age.
And I hit that age last year.
So I went and did it.
And yeah, it's something that not a lot of people would like to do.
Now I guess you probably wouldn't want to have that administered by an AI or a robot or something like that.
That would not be pleasant, but...
Maybe for some other kind of embarrassing issues.
Maybe not having to deal with a person could reduce some of that embarrassment, right.
And then you could go get checked out or at least screened.
For the first step.
I think there could be a big role to play for that, for these embarrassing health issues that I think everybody has experienced at some point in their life sure, and that that reminds me of like virtual reality, because another thing that I've seen is that in the future, maybe you would see a doctor, but in a virtual space, so you would kind of go into a pod and then you would interact with them virtually in like a virtual room or something like that, which would then, of course, open up so you could see doctors that are based in I don't know the States, or you could access a doctor, a specialist, in Korea, for example, South Korea.
So it's really interesting to see how all of these types of developments in healthcare and medicine will play out, because there will be huge changes.
It's a huge industry.
And it's very innovative and always pushing things forward.
So it will be interesting to see what it's like five, 10 years down the line.
But I think to come back to the original question, which is, can you trust AI with your healthcare?
I guess that's kind of up to each person, right?
About where you draw that line.
Very good.
Well, I would say for me, I can trust it for a little thing for now.
But if I had a bigger issue, I think, yeah, maybe I would still go to the doctor.
But like you said, things are changing rapidly.
And just like almost every in almost every industry right now, it's a big question mark, right?
Where are things going to head in the future?
We don't really know.
But it seems like there's a lot of potential for AI and for technology with medicine, and just talking about it here with you sort of like put a lot of ideas in my head like wow, what are things going to be like in five or 10 years?
Like, it's just going to be wild, probably.
Not just in healthcare, but in everything, right?
It'll be interesting to see.
I'm glad we're alive in this generation this time because we're going to see so many changes in the future.
Yeah, cool to think about.
I'd be really interested to hear if anybody is listening to this and you are a doctor or you're a healthcare professional.
It'd be great if you could enter into the discussion and tell us a little bit about your perspective on the AI for treating healthcare conditions.
That would be a really interesting perspective to hear.
Yes, and definitely.
I know that there are QLips members out there, because I've talked to you guys, so you will know who you are.
We have doctors, we have nurses, and we have medical students who are all QLips members.
So guys, you are the authorities.
You are the experts.
We'd love for you to chime in and give us your perspective.
But if you're not a doctor, if you're not a nurse, if you're not a medical student, that's okay.
We still wanna hear your perspective as well.
So guys, come on over to our Discord community.
That's the best place to leave your comments and to chat about this episode with our community.
It's free for everyone to join and the link will be in the description for this episode.
And definitely we will be waiting to hear what you have to say.
So don't be shy.
Come on over and join us in the Discord.
But for now, I think we'll leave it at here for today.
So Anna, thank you so much for your help as always.
And everyone, we'll catch you soon in the next episode.
Until then.
Bye bye.
Bye everyone.
