Hey everybody and welcome to Chatterbox, the QLIP series for intermediate to advanced English learners, where we pick a really interesting topic and we have a conversation about it.
In Chatterbox in the past.
We've covered everything from technology and business to pop culture and relationships.
And I think today's topic is one that's going to really resonate with many of you.
And I hope you'll find it as fun as I did.
By the way, my name's Andrew.
And in just a second, I'll be joined by my co-host, Anna.
And in today's conversation, we're going to be talking about the ick, the ick.
If you haven't heard about the ick before.
Basically it's just the feeling where someone you were into suddenly does something and because of that you're just totally put off by them.
And the weird thing is, it's usually something that's really small that causes it.
Maybe it's the way they laugh or a word they keep saying, or even maybe the way they eat.
So Anna and I are going to talk about everything related to the ick in just a moment.
But before we get started, I want to let you know about the helpful study guide and interactive transcript that's available for this episode to all Q-Lips members.
I'll see you next time.
And I'll see you in the next one. and much, much more.
So just visit QLips.com and you can sign up and become a member today.
And as always, a huge thank you to our member community out there for your support.
Guys, we couldn't do QLips without you.
So thank you so, so much.
Now we know when you're learning English, you need to do a lot of listening, but also being active with your English is a very important component of building your fluency.
And we got you covered for that.
We have an awesome community of culips listeners from around the world, and we hang out and spend time together on our discord server.
It's a place where you can practice your english and chat with people from all over the globe really and it's free to join.
I'd highly encourage you to do that.
And the link to join our discord server, where we'll be chatting about this conversation by the way, The link, yeah is in the description for this episode.
So come on over and join us on Discord and we'll look forward to seeing you there.
Okay, I think those are all of the announcements out of the way for now.
So why don't we get started with this episode in earnest and welcome in Anna.
And here's our conversation about the ick.
Hope you enjoy it.
And joining me now to talk all about the ick is my co-host, Anna.
Anna, how's it going today?
Really well, thank you, Andrew.
What about yourself?
I'm doing really well as well.
And we always record on Fridays.
That is like our regular recording time is Fridays.
So yeah, we're probably always in good moods on Fridays.
It's better than recording like on Monday, right?
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Friday feeling and all that.
Definitely.
Yeah.
So today we are going to talk about the ick.
And Anna, you introduced this to me just before we started recording.
You gave a really good background and breakdown of it.
So maybe you could do that for our listeners as well.
Could you tell us what we mean by the ick?
Absolutely.
I guess I'll start with the definition and then I will explain a little bit about how the ick came to life again recently.
The ick is defined as something within a romantic context.
It's something that somebody does that all of a sudden makes you not like that person.
This could be something serious, it could be something really silly and superficial, but whatever it is, if something gives you the ick and that's the phrase that people often use to give yourself the ick
It just means that suddenly you're like, oh, you're completely turned off by that person.
You don't want to continue with them anymore.
And it's something really sudden.
It was actually a phrase that was popularized, apparently in the 1990s, on a show called Ally McBeal, which was a really, really popular show.
And then recently, in the last few years, it's made a huge comeback on shows like, for example, Love Island.
I don't know if you've heard of that, Andrew, but that's got lots of shows around the world.
And it's kind of had this big comeback of people saying he she, they gave me the ick which, as I said before, means something they did completely turned you off that person.
So instead of it being general day-to-day things like pet peeves, like people not washing your hands, for me it's more of a phrase within a romantic context, if that makes sense.
And dating.
Yeah, that's how I think of it too.
It's like a turnoff.
That's another word that we have, that we sometimes can interchange, but they're a little bit different, right.
The ik.
And guys, I should spell it for you because this is a strange word.
The spelling is I-C-K.
And as Anna mentioned, we often say this phrase, ik. the ick or the ick.
And yeah, it's a little bit different than a turnoff.
Maybe Anna, you could tell us what's at least to you.
What do you think is the difference between the ick and a turnoff?
I think the difference is, I would say they're both in the same family, because both of them are about you not liking the person anymore.
But the ick is something like really sudden and really intense.
It's like one thing that they do and you're like, oh my goodness, that's it.
I can't continue dating this person anymore.
Whereas if something just turns you off, it's not necessarily an absolute deal breaker.
So maybe for me, it's more about the intensity.
I don't know.
What do you think, Andrew?
What would you add to that?
I would say that a turnoff is something that you're aware of from the start.
So maybe, for example, you would say like I'm just not attracted to guys who chew with their mouth open.
That's just like a general turnoff.
Anybody who does that, I find it disgusting.
I don't like it.
Not for me.
Whereas the ick, maybe everything seems great.
He's like the perfect guy.
And maybe you go on a couple of dates and everything's perfect.
And then he does some little thing that. you usually wouldn't think is a big deal.
Like, I don't know, maybe he wears like, I don't know why I'm saying a guy too.
It could go either way, right?
It could be for anyone.
But let's just say some woman is dating a guy, a few dates in, everything's good.
And then suddenly he wears a pink hat and you're like, Why would you wear a pink hat?
Like, that's just so weird.
And it just gives you this little feeling of like.
Maybe you can't even subconsciously say why it's weird or why you don't like it, but you almost like lost respect or can't see the guy in the same way anymore.
And that turnoff factor in that moment that was a surprise to you, that would be the ick.
Yeah, I like that definition, actually.
And this is the thing with the ick.
It's really personal, and sometimes it seems so silly and not very rational.
And you kind of touched on a few things there, Andrew.
It could be maybe somebody's style.
It could be what they're wearing.
It could be perhaps an element of their personality, a behavior like something they do, or maybe just their taste, what they like, what they don't like.
And like you said, it can kind of just appear out of nowhere and you're like, oh, goodness.
And it's quite hard to see past it once it's happened.
Right.
But it's fascinating really, because I think it's quite hard to define.
And I think the interesting question is, should we actually listen to the ick?
Is the ick something valid or not?
Is another point that we're just being way too critical, way too judgmental, like are we really going to decide whether to continue a relationship with somebody or not because they wore a pink hat?
Right, i mean right, you know?
So this is the thing that i think is really interesting.
Yeah, it is interesting.
And I was reading some background articles about this.
And guys, I'll link the articles in the description for this episode too, so that if you're interested in learning more and reading more, then you can check out those articles.
But I'm going to pull up one here, Anna, and I wanted just to read a section from it.
And the article was saying that a lot of the times the ick is subconscious and evolutionary.
So it gave the example of a couple on a date and suddenly, you know, the date was going fine.
Maybe this was like the third or fourth date.
So it wasn't a first impression, but maybe on one of the third or fourth dates The guy had chapped lips and then suddenly the chapped lips were like the ick.
The woman saw the chapped lips and she, maybe subconsciously in that moment, thought that oh, maybe this guy isn't so healthy or maybe he doesn't take good care of himself.
And that could be a kind of evolutionary signal that... perhaps he won't have a long life.
If this guy can't take care of his hydration to have like properly hydrated lips, then maybe he can't take care of himself in other situations.
And that could eventually lead to like dying early, right?
Or it gave the example of a guy who, I don't know, let's change it to a woman.
I'll pick on someone.
Yeah, we were picking on guys here, aren't we, a little bit.
I'm picking too much on guys.
I'll switch to a woman.
A date who claps when a plane lands.
And, you know, some people do that for some reason.
Maybe they're just like nervous in the air.
And then the plane lands and they're like oh, thank God we landed.
Okay, but that could evolutionarily signal that they do something embarrassing and that maybe that could mean that you're not accepted by a larger social group and you could be perhaps an outcast in some social situations.
And that could be like the ick.
It's like...
Maybe this person doesn't have great social skills and they do something that's non-standard or embarrassing and it just makes you feel icky about that, right.
So those were some examples from the article that I thought were really interesting, that this could be really really deep-rooted and evolutionary.
And that's an uphill battle to fight.
I think against those deep instincts that we have.
I think it's really hard to fight against those instincts, actually.
The other theory they put on the table in these articles is actually that sometimes these behaviors perhaps reflect our own insecurities back at us.
So, for example, if we take the clapping on the plane...
I would find that a little bit awkward.
I don't think it would give me the ick, as in I would never be able to date a person like that, but I would find it a bit odd.
But maybe that's because, in a way, they're very confident and they're doing something in a social space that I would be too afraid to do.
So perhaps also as well that's another thing they say is it actually?
Sometimes the ick is?
Or when you get the ick about somebody, it actually says more about you than it does about the other person, which I think is just fascinating, because the ick is always putting the weight on the other person.
Oh, look at this horrible behavior.
Look at this.
Look at that.
But actually, perhaps it says more about you than than them.
That is interesting.
So it's like your own insecurities are showing up and because of that, you're pushing someone away.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Somebody is really confident in their skin and they're happy to do things in a social context that maybe other people would be afraid to do.
And that can be quite intimidating if you are an anxious person or you lack confidence.
To be around people that are very confident is sometimes a bit like oof.
Yeah, scary, I guess.
So who knows?
I think it must be lots of different factors.
But I do like what you said there about it is almost involuntary.
You can't really, it's not rational, I think is the best way to think about it.
Like I was thinking about some of the icks that I have.
And I mean, they're all stupid.
They're all really silly and they're not rational.
But it's very hard to unsee them once you've seen them, if that makes sense.
Well, interestingly enough, speaking of seeing...
I read that research says that only 6% of the time, ick triggers, and this is a great word to know guys, trigger, something that triggers you, makes you feel a certain way.
So a trigger of an ick only 6% of the time is related to physical appearance.
So I thought that was pretty shocking, because when you hear this, the ick, I think, like most, Of course it's going to be related to the way people look, but it's not really related to the way people look.
Most of the time, instead, it's behavior or personality.
So actions that people are doing or characteristics that people have, that is the turnoff.
It's not really like a visual thing or a physical appearance thing at all.
Yeah, that doesn't actually surprise me, to be honest, because I think with the physical thing, like clothes and things like that well, that's really more a question of style for me.
And there are some style things that I don't think personally look very nice.
That other people wear that I think yuck, I think that looks really unattractive.
But Again, it's kind of a question of style and style can change.
And I think, you know, it's not a be-all and end-all for me at all, really.
But I think it is more about behaviours that people have that are really, really off-putting.
But it's very personal.
So one thing that could be the ick for me this is another thing they were saying in the articles could be somebody else's.
Oh, that's perfect.
That's exactly the person that I want.
So it's extremely, extremely personal.
And there's so many different ics.
I mean, if you go on the internet.
I don't know if you did this Andrew, while you were researching the episode.
I mean, it's just like a plethora of information about different ics people have that just...
But I mean, I also think, if I can add another comment here I think this also is part of this dating world where we are so judgmental now of other people.
So this type of dating app culture, where it's here are all the factors involved of somebody and we're judging them on all these factors.
And I think it's part of this environment of being so judgmental of other people and having such high expectations.
Like, I want them to be this.
I want them to earn this amount of money.
I want them to like this and this.
Oh, and they can't do this, this, this, this.
And if they do this one thing like, for example, one of the things one of my aches Andrew, is almond milk.
Oh, no way.
Yeah.
That is one of my biggest eggs.
So if I meet somebody and they drank almond milk, am I really going to stop seeing that person just because they drink almond milk?
Like, that's ridiculous.
So I think it's also about this part of very judgmental dating culture as well that has been facilitated by these types of apps and things like that.
Yeah, that's a great point.
So that's hilarious.
So for you, if you were to go on a date to a cafe with a guy and he had a latte with almond milk, that would be an ick for you.
Huge turnoff.
Absolutely.
I just have a personal aversion to almond milk.
It's like, why would you want to drink liquefied nuts?
It's something visceral.
I just don't get it.
But again, of course, the other side is maybe people prefer almond milk.
Maybe it's tastier for them or whatever.
So I mean, it's ridiculous, but I have to be honest, that would be a turnoff for me.
So yeah, who knows why?
Who knows why?
But it is.
I mean, it could be evolutionary as well, right?
Sure, right.
Yeah.
So, interestingly enough, you just mentioned talking about reading about people's ics on the internet, and I was searching, not searching.
I was browsing on Reddit this morning and I just randomly saw a post where people were talking about an ic and I screen captured it and I'm going to read it here.
It's quite short but it's perfect, because we just recently did a Q-Lips episode where we talked about using ChatGPT and AI tools for writing personal messages like personal texts or personal emails.
And this was related to that.
So I'll read this post here.
OK, the post says I'm friends with this guy who literally refers to chat GPT as chat and will be like let me ask chat oftentimes for the most rudimentary things.
It seems like such second nature for some men, especially tech finance bros.
And it's such an ick to me.
So I thought that was perfect, because it's just what we had talked about on Q-Lips recently and a great example of using this expression in relation to this new technology.
That would be an ick for me, to be honest, too, if you're like...
Yes.
Texting with somebody in the early stages of a relationship and you can tell every message is just chat GPT.
I wouldn't like it.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I think the bigger ick for me is like you have, if somebody has a question and the first thing, before they even think about how I could solve it myself, they're like Oh, let me just ask chat GPT.
It's like, geez, like, come on, like, could you think for like, two minutes before you ask?
So that would put me off.
Like, I would find that quite off-putting.
It's like, use your brain a little bit.
Like, ChatGP is great.
It's a wonderful tool, but good grief.
Like, come on.
I'm sure you can figure out how to fry an egg without, you know, right.
Or I don't know.
Yeah.
Where can I go on holiday or something like this?
I'm sure you could maybe think about it a little bit first.
So yes, I have to say I would agree with that egg that that girl said.
And that there's lots of these eggs with people that say specific things, like she was saying about chat.
Some people said things like yo-yo.
When people say funny phrases like that or YOLO or you know some of these weird things or acronyms that really people find horrible and it really really gives them the ick.
So that's kind of a category of icks is sort of phrases and the way people say things.
Yeah.
For me, it's, there's this new phrase that's appeared, which is like low key.
It's very American.
And people are like, he was like low key, a bad guy.
Yeah.
And I'm like, what?
It just gives me a bit of the egg, to be honest, because I just think I just don't get the phrase.
I'm sure it's a really nice colloquial expression or whatever.
But for me, it's just like really weird.
I don't like it.
But yeah.
Sure.
Fair enough.
I like your American accent there, by the way.
Good job.
Yeah, cool.
And there's another one is another thing that gives me the ick with people.
And this is more like friendships, because I think the ick, we can maybe extend it a little bit to friendships as well.
Like one thing that I don't like is when people talk like this and it's like vocal fry.
Vocal fry guys is when people vibrate their voice and it has that like sound like this.
And I just can't.
I'm so sorry if you do that and you're listening.
You're like, that's me.
But it's just but again, silly, right?
Who cares about how somebody talks that doesn't have a reflection on them as a person, right?
But well, what can I say?
Yeah.
And in fact, that speaking style, I would say is pretty popular for very highly educated women.
In my generation, around my age, maybe late 30s to 50s, like that demographic of North American women, especially sometimes guys.
But I think vocal fry is mostly a female speaking trait.
But yeah, usually they are super hyper intelligent individuals.
That's kind of a characteristic of people who use vocal fry.
However, I agree that sometimes it can be very irritating to listen to.
So it doesn't really have anything to do with your intelligence.
It's just a kind of characteristic of that community and yeah, it can be grating, but i was laughing again anna, because you do that so well.
Yeah, i know, i'm shocked, i know, i don't know, I'm not sure which accent it is, but I can do that kind of standard neutral, stereotypical American accent.
So yeah, I've got that one in my arsenal.
Yeah, you morphed into American.
I'm shocked because I can't do the British accent at all, but you totally nailed it.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Maybe I'm a secret, secretly from the United States, but just living a British life.
I don't know.
Double agent.
Yeah.
Double agent.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, why don't we wrap up here just with a little fun and maybe sharing some of the icks that we have?
I mean, I've been out of the dating game for a long time now.
So I have to really go back and think about this.
I'm sure if I were to be freshly single, I'd probably have a lot to talk about.
But since it's been a while, I don't have a ton that i can remember.
And i'm also curious anna, do you think maybe that women tend to have more ics than men do?
Because i feel like guys are kind of like it's okay, like they just want to, you know, hang out with girls and maybe a lot of them sort of overlook some things?
I think they probably do.
I just don't think they use the terminology of ick.
I think the ick is something that's been used very much in the female space and the female influencer space.
But I would say that boys also still have things that you know they might meet a girl and it might really turn them off.
I just don't think maybe they use the same vocabulary.
So I think there are ics from both sides, but it is definitely something that's been popularized in the female influencer space, definitely as a term and a phrase.
But I'm sure there's lots of things that guys, girls or whoever think, oh, no, like, so I think it goes both ways or anyway, you know, just maybe not the vocab itself.
That would be my take on it.
There are two things that I could recall that kind of gave me the ick.
And I guess they were maybe a little bit more serious than just almond milk.
I don't have anything like that.
But I wish mine were so light.
Okay.
So the first one that came to mind, I was thinking through my previous dating life, when I was a single guy.
And I remember one time I met a lovely lady, but I felt like she was too into me.
And that kind of was a turnoff.
You know like just being like too pushy, wanting to hang out all the time, and it was just like too much and I was like like why are you so into me?
Like chill out a little bit, Like that was a warning sign.
Sure.
Red flag.
That was a red flag.
And so being too interested and too aggressive and too pushy was like, whoa, chill.
Let's go slowly.
But no.
So that was an ick that came to mind.
Right.
Yeah.
The other ick.
And yeah, I don't know if this is just like a turnoff or maybe it's.
Ick isn't the right phrase, or turnoff maybe isn't the right phrase either.
Maybe I need to use a different expression like this.
Maybe this is just a personal boundary.
I remember going on a date and then later finding out that the woman actually had a child from a previous relationship.
And to me, that was like, ah, that's like a boundary I don't want to go into.
I don't want to get involved in that kind of situation.
So before knowing that, I thought everything was totally fine.
And then once I found that out and then I was like, yeah, OK, this is just not for me.
But it was nothing to do with her or anything is just at that time.
I was like, definitely can't get involved in that kind of situation for me personally at that time.
So those are the two kind of ick triggers that I could recall.
Okay.
Yeah.
Goodness.
Did you have any others?
Well, I was going to say mine sounds really pathetic now in comparison to yours, like really serious kind of stuff.
But yeah, no, I think it's actually really important to say as well that...
And you know the things I'm going to say.
Now I realize that they're not rational and they are silly.
So I'm doing it for the purpose of the episode, but I'm not.
I would definitely try not to judge people that meet these categories.
But, you know, just for the purposes of entertainment, I've come up with a list.
So we started with almond milk, which is one of my eggs.
You're going to see a theme here.
The second and third one is people who drink lactose-free and they don't actually have a lactose intolerance.
Like that for me is just, I mean, what are you doing?
You're actually going to give yourself a lactose intolerance.
Same with, I'm gluten-free, but you don't actually have a gluten intolerance.
Again, doesn't make any sense.
Maybe they just have a preference for gluten-free, but well, it's an ick.
Other things.
Okay, this is a really silly one.
And then I'll do a more serious one.
One thing that I find a bit of an ick and again this is kind of a style thing Andrew mentioned before about the pink hat scenario is people who wear mountain sunglasses for everyday activities.
Mountain sunglasses.
What do you mean by mountain sunglasses?
Me and my friend call them like desert storms.
You know the one where they have like wrap around and then they have like reflective green, reflective lenses or orange or something like this, like really technical sunglasses.
Yeah. but like wearing them just to go to the coffee shop or something.
Like, I don't know why.
It's just a bit of an egg for me, but totally ridiculous.
Yeah.
Or even people who wear sunglasses inside.
That kind of is an ick for me as well.
Yeah.
It's like, I want to see your eyes.
I want to make eye contact.
Come on.
It's like a little weirdly antisocial for some reason to me.
Yes.
I agree.
I agree.
Okay, one more silly one.
People that sing with their headphones in in public down the street.
That would give me like the massive ick.
Like that is something that I just do not understand at all.
Like, you know that you're singing out loud.
So why?
And then the last one, which actually I think does come back to something more serious, is something that I find a big ick.
Let's imagine that you split the bill and you owed that person five pence or five cents.
And they're like, can I have that five cents back?
Yeah.
Like that for me is like a big ick.
And it comes back to a deeper thing which, for me, something of value, for me that's very important, is being generous and also not being too bothered about those little things.
Like okay yes, it is your five pence, but you know, can you live without that five pence?
Probably like, are you really going to make a big deal out about that five pence?
So that for me would give me a little bit of the ick.
And that is something that's related more to like my values and things like that.
But yeah, I mean, that was my... initial list, which are some absolutely ridiculous things.
They're not rational.
And I do think that it's worth to get to know the person and not just discount people because they do one of these things.
But, you know, like we said before, it's kind of an involuntary reaction.
We can't really help it.
So that's my list.
Yeah no, I think that makes a lot of sense when we view it through that evolutionary theory that was talked about in the article, because a lot of your ics seem to be diet related.
Right.
Allergy or intolerance.
And like if we were to think of, like hunter, gatherers right, you want a guy that can go out there and eat whatever he wants and is strong and survives and is healthy.
But if you're like, really picky, or if you have some allergies or some for some reason, you can't just eat whatever is available.
Right.
And yeah, maybe you die early.
So I don't know that that seems to make a lot of sense from that point of view.
And yeah, I think I like how you mentioned that it may be reveals some deeper values that you hold right.
Squabbling over just an extremely small amount of money.
Yeah, just shows that you're not very chill and that perhaps you're not very generous.
And it's kind of like a little insight into somebody's deeper personality or deeper value system.
So Yeah, maybe the Ix, you know, they seem funny, they seem superficial and they seem, you know, like something that we should just write off.
But after talking about them for a while here, I think maybe we have to listen to them.
Maybe they're trying to help us out after all.
I think it depends.
I think some of them can be useful.
Some of them I just think like almond milk, like that's silly.
Like really, I'm not going to date somebody because they drink almond milk.
Like obviously that's something that I think you can get past.
But the things about money and things like that, it's like, well...
Right.
Maybe that's giving you a clue about this person and maybe that's steering you in the right direction.
So I think it really, really depends.
But it is an interesting phenomenon that has...
Had a big comeback in recent years and I don't think it's any different than it was before.
I still think people had the ick years ago.
I just think there's a terminology and a phrase to talk about it now.
And we talk about it with a bit more intensity than perhaps we did before.
And I think that goes back to what I was saying about the whole online dating culture, which I think has facilitated that a lot.
Yeah.
Excellent.
Well, listeners, we should throw things over to you.
And I'm really interested to find out if the ick is universal or if different cultures have different triggers and different things that give people the ick.
So listeners, we're going to have to rely on you.
You have to go over to our Discord community and leave a comment and share.
And I'll see you next time.
Looking in the description for this episode, we'll put the link there.
You can join for free.
And we always have great conversations over there.
I think we have over 9,000 people who participate on our Discord community.
And so it's a thriving community.
It's really fun.
Come on over and join us and share your opinion.
It's a great way to be active with your English, to not just listening but actually speaking, actually using English to communicate.
And so, yeah, don't be shy.
Come on over and join us.
And we're looking forward to hearing what you have to say.
Anna, thanks for a fun episode.
That was a great conversation.
Yes, it was great fun.
Thanks, Andrew.
Yeah.
And we'll talk to everybody soon.
Bye-bye.
Bye, everyone.
