Hi, my name is Carol Leifer.
And I feel fresh about being Conan O'Brien's friend.
Fresh?
It's new, it's fresh.
It's new, it's fresh.
Yes.
Fall is here.
Hear the yell Back to school, ring the bell, Brand new shoes, walking blues Climb the fence, books and pens.
I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
Hey there, welcome to.
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.
And joined by two of my friends, my good friends, contractually, Sonam of Session and Matt Gourley.
You don't have to add contractually.
No, it's in the contracts.
True.
And I'm going through a little bit of an unusual moment right now, which is my wife is out of town and my kids are away.
They're in school.
I am uh, living alone in the house with my two dogs and uh, my daughter's cat and or our two dogs and my daughter's cat and um, it's just becoming clear to me that i don't know very basic things like how to feed myself and i don't cook, And you know, live.
And you can't use like a delivery app, can you?
Probably.
Well, you know what?
In the past, I used to like call my son and say, can you get me a hamburger?
And he would do it.
I am using a delivery app, but I won't mention which one it is unless they give us some money.
Yeah.
But anyway.
I know which one because I get the email confirmation.
You get the email confirmation?
I do.
Do you know what he's eating?
So I try not to check.
I want to give you some privacy.
But then I do anyway.
What do you mean?
That's so weird that you know what I'm eating.
I know.
But have you noticed that lately, so I'm at home alone.
Robbers, I'm at home alone.
Was Liza protecting you?
She was.
Liza's a badass ninja.
But I'm realizing, like, Liza is so, I mean, amazing in a lot of ways.
But when you, I don't even notice it, but I come in the door and she just, she's cooking.
There's food.
Or if we are ordering, she's ordered it.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And I've become.
I've reverted back to when I was a comedy writer in the 1980s and I was just on my own and I would be coming.
I just ate fast food.
This is before delivery.
Sometimes I wouldn't eat for a long time because I mean, I'm I'm stupid.
I'm to it.
I'm a 19-year-old boy in a lot of ways.
Oh, no.
And so my wife is away for the time being, and I'm stunned that I'll and I'm not joking I last night I was just hanging around the house.
I had fed the, I can feed the dogs because they have dogs.
Okay, that's good.
That's good.
So I fed the dogs, took care of the cat.
No, the cat can fend for itself.
The cat has its own app.
No, I, you know, I took care of the cat.
The cat, everything's fine with them.
I can take care of them.
And then I opened the refrigerator and because of the fires, we're starting fresh with all our food.
Like, you know, we weren't in our house for a long time and a lot of the food had to be thrown out.
So there's very little in the refrigerator.
And I opened the refrigerator and there's like two of like chocolate milk energy drinks.
Yeah.
And I just had one of those and then tried to pretend that was dinner.
And that was at like four o'clock in the afternoon.
And I was like, well, that should do it.
And then a couple hours later, I'm like, huh, I don't think that does it.
And then I took some almond butter and I put it on a piece of bread.
And I thought, I think jelly goes with this, doesn't it?
This is stuff five-year-olds know.
And then I had that, but it wasn't even a sandwich.
I just rolled one piece of bread into a taco and ate that standing up.
I mean, it's just, I'm over 60 years old.
I've had some accomplishments in my life.
And then I went back and then I'm going through the app.
Like I do know I'm looking at the app and there's just so many, so many choices.
I don't know what to do.
And then I start to think, well, there's one more of those energy drinks.
The one I had before.
I get it.
And I had that again.
So I had two energy drinks.
Can you cook anything?
No.
Really?
There's nothing?
No, you know what I can do?
I can do breakfast.
Okay, so when you wake up, you don't do breakfast?
No, I can make breakfast.
Yeah.
I can make breakfast.
Yes, you've said that three times today.
Your Honor, I wish to state that I can feed myself at breakfast.
Lunch is a little easier.
Oh, boy, did I do something.
Okay.
So yesterday I stayed home yesterday.
So I was at home the whole day myself and I didn't have any breakfast.
I don't know why.
And again, I'm rattling around the house.
I'm playing with the dogs.
I'm walking them.
And then I drove around in my pickup truck.
And I went and I parked on the street and I'm walking down the street and I see an Erewhon.
And I go in and I wait in the line.
And then I look at the smoothies and I panic and get the only smoothie I know, which is the Hailey Bieber smoothie.
Made an appearance on this podcast before.
And so I said, I didn't want to say I'll have the Hailey Bieber smoothie.
So I went, I'll have that raspberry one.
And the guy was like, the Hailey Bieber smoothie.
And I went, the raspberry one.
And he went, you want the Hailey Bieber skin exfoliating smoothie.
This is like when you have to buy tampons for your wife at the grocery store.
Is that what you want?
The one that makes your skin glow so that Justin Bieber loves you even more?
And I went, I'll just have the raspberry one.
And then he said, what name?
And I was about to use a different name.
And I went, nope, don't do that.
That's stupid.
I just said Conan.
So then I wait near the thing.
And then they went, Kohan, Kohan.
Oh!
I'm like I just hosted the Oscars.
It's Conan and I want the Hailey Bieber smoothie.
They didn't get her name wrong no, and it said Cohan C-O-H-A-N on it.
And then I went and I sat alone at this little table and it's the most embarrassing looking smoothie you've ever seen, because it's got little swirls of red and then there's like a creamy swirl and I sat there and I'm like slurp slurp slurp, slurp.
Why did you slip it there?
Because i panicked and i sat and there's a big picture window and bang bang, bang against the window and i look out and there's a guy, like a fan goes, gives me the big thumbs up and i have the straw in my lips and i'm going and i gave a thumbs up back and then another fan bang bang bang bang slurp, slurp and I gave the okay sign.
They're all running home.
I saw Conan eating the Hailey Bieber skin exfoliating, nature giving ovulation smoothie.
Liza has to come home soon.
I know.
I mean, I swear to God.
You're not going to last.
I'm not going to last.
Please, can someone...
Someone find out where I live and come into the house and cook for me.
We're just going to bring you Hailey Bieber smoothies.
I know.
I'm going to go get like a blood test and they're going to say your body is just made.
They're going to look up and go from the microscope and go.
Have you been just living off of Hailey Bieber smoothies?
Because I'm her doctor and you have the exact same DNA makeup.
Your skin looks amazing.
Sir, you have breasts now.
You're leaving.
I leave with a training bra.
My lips are all plump.
Suddenly people are saying, you should model.
All right.
My guest today is a hilarious comedian and writer.
I hope she can cook for me.
Now I'm just going to start booking people who I hope will cook for me, who has worked on such shows as Seinfeld, Hacks and Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Good God.
She's worked on so many great shows.
Now she has a new book How to Write a Funny Speech for a Wedding, Bar Mitzvah, Graduation and Every Other Event You Didn't Want to Go to in the First Place.
Thrilled to be here today.
Carol Leifer, welcome.
We have crossed paths many times, but never had a chance to sit down.
And this is a treat for me because I've wanted to talk to you.
And this is our opportunity right now.
It is.
Because we've worked side by side.
We just did the Oscars together.
You were a writer on the Oscars.
I was hosting the Oscars.
And yet there's all this running around and we keep passing each other in the hallway.
So it's nice to sit down because you have, in my opinion, one of the best careers of any comedy writer I can imagine.
Wow.
I mean, think about it.
Think about this.
I'm explaining it to you as if you've lost your memory in an accident.
I'm a doctor that's come in and I'm telling you, your name is Carol Leifer.
You've written on Seinfeld Hacks.
Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Modern Family Saturday Night Live, The Larry Sanders Show and 10 Academy Award shows.
Yes.
That's insanity.
Yeah.
Oh, and you're leaving out the Colgate Comedy Hour.
Yes.
You, Killed it in 1952.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
You were a fetus when you wrote for that show.
There's so much to talk about because there's the world of comedy writing.
But what I want to start with is you come from the world of stand-up 1970s.
And I've talked to people like Susie Essman about what it was like in those early days to be a woman who's trying to do stand-up comedy in the 1970s.
Yes.
It was, I would guess, not easy.
Not an easy thing to crack.
You know what?
It was actually quite the opposite because there were not many women.
And I always thought that was a tremendous advantage because...
I always talk about the 70s stand-up.
They were looking for comedians.
But it's really true.
So when I started, there were like four or five women comics.
You know, Rita Rudner was of my generation.
And they...
They wanted women comics, and I always felt I got so much support from the guy comics.
Oh, good.
Yeah, a lot of people thought it was a little rough and tumble and all that, but I got so much support so I found it to be advantage.
I mean, what was obnoxious was way back then, they wouldn't put on two women following each other.
It was like it had to be separated.
Like we'll have the singer, then the ventriloquist, then a woman, then the monkey act, then maybe another woman.
You're a novelty.
It's like someone who can separate both shoulders.
Right, the contortionist and a woman.
Another oddity that represents 50 of the population and is responsible for the continuation of our species.
One of those things is so weird.
I could follow a bearded woman.
I've been mistaken for a bearded woman.
It's so interesting to me because you get started in this time and the thing that always fascinates me is what's the impetus?
What makes Carol Leifer, as a young woman, decide I'm going to go swim upstream against the current and get into this profession?
I mean, it's strange enough in those days when a man decides to do it.
But what?
Where did you come from?
What made you want to do this?
Well, I think you know, as always wanting to be a performer, you know, like most people's greatest fear is speaking in front of large groups of people.
Most performers fear is not speaking in front of people.
Right.
You know what I mean?
You had it in you.
You wanted to be in front of those people.
I did.
I did.
And what I liked about stand-up was anybody can do it.
You know, I was going to school at Binghamton.
Paul Reiser was in my theater group.
And he told me...
Like one day.
You know, during the summers I go to these comedy clubs on audition night and I perform.
And comedy clubs were so new then, you know.
So when he was talking about clubs, I was like, this guy goes to clubs?
What is he, like Vic DeMone?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Performing at these places.
He was like, anybody can go on.
So I always loved that about it.
And I still love that about stand-up.
It's like, you want to go on.
It's not like an actor where you have to... and, you know... Right, or a musician where you need to have your tuba with you.
Yes.
You can just walk in, you can be somewhere, you can go up, and you can do a set.
Exactly.
And the first time I went on on my first audition.
You know it's also something about being young and having a lot of balls that you don't have later on in life.
You have more to lose later in life, I've noticed.
Yes, yes.
That...
I completely agree with what you're saying.
There's a period in my life where I had a $380 a month apartment.
I had a beat up 1973 Plymouth Valiant.
And I'd do anything.
I'd do anything.
I sold my body for sex.
And enjoyed it.
And often would, yeah.
Win-win.
Yeah, win-win.
I wouldn't even take the money afterwards.
But yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.
Yeah, so I went on audition night.
My first audition night, I like killed.
It was amazing.
And I thought like, oh my God, this is not only so great, it's so easy.
Like I'll be on Johnny Carson next week.
It's amazing.
It wasn't until the second time that I went on that I completely bombed.
Like so bad that I invited friends from college to come see me, because I was like oh, I'm doing great.
And I had a tape recorder on the table and you can actually hear my friend in the middle of my set going oh, John.
Oh, man.
Muttering how horrible it was going over.
So then I saw like to be a stand-up comedian, it takes some work.
You have good nights.
You have bad nights.
There are a lot of factors that go into it who you follow, what time of the night you go on, how inebriated the crowd is.
So you have to learn to negotiate all that.
You talked about Carson.
I know your real break came with Letterman.
Yeah.
Letterman's show, which was, you know, such an influence on me.
I think I'm 17 or 18 when he does the morning show and then he switches over to the late night show.
So I'm maybe 19 years old when he starts the late night show.
Yeah.
Comedy is my religion as a 19-year-old.
And so I become a total acolyte.
And I'm looking at David Letterman saying, oh, this person's showing me the way.
He would, you knew Dave.
I didn't.
You didn't know Dave.
No, no.
In 1980, kids, I was in a contest called the big, the New York laugh off contest.
And it was a contest, you know, of comedians.
You know, that's so funny to me today.
It's like, back then, that's how you got exposure.
You were in contests, you know?
And it aired on Showtime, and Letterman saw that and recommended me to the Tonight Show for that.
And then the Tonight Show saw my big laugh-off set, and they passed.
So then when Dave got his show, they just reached out and said, would you like to be on?
And he put you on a bunch of times.
Yeah, I was on 25 times.
And they gave me an open door.
It was like, whenever you have a new set, come on, which was amazing.
It is such an interesting thing.
There's such a almost like a lemmings or sheep kind of mentality where people don't think you're the real McCoy but once you've been on a show and there's tape of you and there's a famous host saying ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Carol Leifer.
Suddenly they're like, oh, right.
Yeah.
You're one of them.
Mm-hmm.
Well, you were one of them before.
You just, it's a magical thing.
But not really until you go on TV.
I mean, to this day, my first appearance on Letterman is like one of my, the best days of my life.
Yeah.
Because like suddenly you're not just, you know, kind of in it.
You're really in it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also, it was a different era than today.
I mean, I talk about this a lot.
And when I talk about it to my kids I sound like an old wizard telling people about the beginning of how Earth formed.
It was so different that my dad bought a VCR to tape me.
At the time, it was like $1,000.
Wow.
Right, right.
Well, they were made of gold.
Right.
The only VCRs were all gold.
They were made by Rolex.
Then they got into the watch business.
But one of the things that was interesting too is I've talked to people from that era you know ahead of you, but they were like you know, Steve Martin or comedians of that generation.
They would say they would go on Johnny Carson's show and the next day they would walk down the street and people were shouting out of cars because half the country watched.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it was the equivalent of being on the Super Bowl, except it happened every night.
Yeah.
Because there was literally one late night show.
And I remember when there was, you know, there's Carson and then Letterman after Carson.
And occasionally there'd be another show that they would put up, but it wouldn't last that long.
Yeah.
Who is Merv Griffin during the day?
Yeah.
Yeah.
During the daytime.
But who was watching TV during the daytime?
I wasn't.
So to me, it was if something happened.
I mean I remembered when David Byrne for the Talking Heads, Dave Letterman interviewed David Byrne and everybody I talked to the next day because we were all in college.
Right.
We had all seen it.
Yeah.
It was a time when we were all gathered around the same campfire.
Mm hmm. there was a magic to that, which gave you this legitimacy and power.
The Freddie Prince story.
He did, I think, like one appearance, and then he got like Chico and the man the next day got his own series.
Right.
Right.
And he was very young.
He was like 20 or 19 or 20.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it was definitely like a star maker.
Yes.
I know that you have a successful standup career, but then you have this pedigree as a writer, which is just off the charts.
When do you start to realize okay, I love standup, I love doing standup, but I want to be in that room.
I want to be in the writer's room.
Well, I got my break to write on SNL.
This is... What year?
What year would that be?
85 to 86.
Okay.
What is affectionately or disaffectionately called the weird year.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, with the strange cast Robert Downey Jr, Randy Quaid, but Al Franken, Anthony Michael Hall.
Yeah, yeah.
Al Franken and Jim Downey came to the comic strip to audition comics.
And they saw me and they said would you like to you know we'd like you and we'd like to see if you want to write on the show.
I was like, absolutely.
They said, oh, you just have to meet Lauren.
So I was like, all set for this meeting.
And Had all my answers prepared, you know, for like a serious sit-down business meeting.
It was literally, he was auditioning people, Lauren, at this rehearsal space.
He came out for two seconds and he said to me, oh, I don't do a good Lauren.
You know, Jim and I'll say you're very good.
And, you know, sometimes you have to stay up late at the show.
I was like, yeah.
He went, okay, thanks.
That was my big interview.
Wow.
But you passed.
I guess so, yeah.
If I had said, I really don't like staying up.
I like to be in bed by 8 o'clock.
Yeah, that's going to interfere with my routine.
And so I wrote that year, and I really enjoyed it, but I really wanted to go back to stand-up.
So I did.
But then, strangely, out of the blue, in 93...
Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld called me together.
So I knew at that time there was something odd about that, because I would talk to each of them separately on a landline, but calling me together seemed weird.
They were in one spot.
It's like a prank.
Yeah.
Yeah, and they were like, you know, do you want a ride for Seinfeld?
And I was like, uh, yeah.
You know it was great, because my inexperience is the thing that got me the job, because they, you know, didn't want people who'd written on sitcoms before because, as Larry referred to it, you know they were poisoned by the system.
¶¶
What was your first writing job?
It was not necessarily the news.
Oh, wow.
And a woman named Pat Lee gave me... I know her, yes.
Yeah, she hired Greg and I. We got us into the Guild.
It was our first show.
And...
We work like maniacs and I have such clear memories and I'm always passing Sunset Gower Studios and I always have the same flashback to Greg and I We took an overnight flight.
It was cheap.
It was, I think, called People Express, where you could fly.
I remember that.
Do you remember People Express?
No, it's just that name.
People Express.
The airline of China.
Yeah.
Yeah.
People Express was a- Live poultry.
Literally you could, for like $40, you could fly across the country.
I mean, something insane.
And obviously it was a whole other world before 9-11.
I mean, you just would buy your ticket at the counter.
You'd get on the plane, no frills.
We flew overnight.
I remember my writing partner, Greg Daniels, put a blanket over his head to try and go to sleep because the seats didn't go back.
So he was sitting upright.
He looked like a bad kid's ghost.
Sitting next to me.
And we landed, we got this really cheap rental car and we drove to Sunset Gower Studios and walked in and said we're here to work for television.
I have acne.
And that's where it started.
But it was a show that at least had it was pre-tapes and it wasn't.
We weren't writing four characters and it wasn't all these shows that I really liked.
It was sketch comedy that I thought, okay, this is respectable.
We can do this with an eye towards hoping to get a job with Letterman, which didn't work out.
But it was so.
You get this call and to work for Seinfeld and you write an episode that coincidentally, I've been.
We were displaced by the fire.
Our house is okay, but it has to be de-smoked, de-detoxed.
And so my wife and I had been living in this little apartment, kind of rental apartment, with a kitchenette at the hotel.
You're at the Oakwood, aren't you?
Yeah, yeah.
A great place to meet a single pregnant woman.
Who's going through a bad divorce.
But every night we don't have our regular television.
We just, you know, we don't have Apple TV or Max or anything.
So we're just thumbing through and we always land on Seinfeld.
Oh, nice.
And we watch Seinfeld and I watched your Rye episode.
Ah, yes.
Marble Rye.
Three nights ago I watched the Marble Rye episode, remembered that you had written that episode, which is one of my favorites.
Oh, thank you. if you don't recall, I think it's George's fiance.
George is going.
George Costanza is going over to eat with the fiance and he brings his parents who, of course, humiliate him.
You know the great Jerry Stiller and the actress.
I can't remember the actress's name.
Estelle Harris.
Estelle Harris.
And they come over and they're just, they bring a marble rye and then they notice that these waspy parents of their future in-law don't eat the marble rye.
So Jerry Stiller takes it back, And then that couple realizes the Waspie couple realizes that the marble rye has been taken back and they're enraged.
And then the whole episode is about how do we get the rye back into the apartment, which is a great, great idea for an episode.
Where did you get that idea?
It was crazy because you know a lot of times people come up to you when you write on a hit show like that and they're like something really funny happened to me.
And you're like, oh, boy, here we go.
You know, and it's like Betty's egg salad was in the fridge at work and somebody took it.
You know, and it's like, oh boy, here we go.
But a friend of mine from high school was like, I had the funniest thing happen.
This couple came over and brought a bread.
We didn't put it out and they wanted to take it back.
And I knew when I went in to Larry's office, Larry and Jerry, you would pitch to them one on one.
If Larry liked an idea, he would get so ecstatic.
You know what I mean?
When I pitched that, he was like, I love it.
I love it.
We're doing that.
Yeah.
We're doing that.
And he would be like that about certain ideas.
You know, like Elaine thinks the Korean manicurist are talking about her behind her back in Korean.
Like, yes, yes.
You know?
He knew.
It's like he had a divining rod.
Like, yes, there's water there.
I know there's water there.
Exactly.
You know conversely, if you pitched and this is a lot of times ideas that he they didn't like, he would kind of do this thing with his arm and go.
Yeah, I don't know.
That's called angina.
He was having a heart attack.
Yeah.
You know, or he would, you know, the biggest put down was, I could see that on another show.
Yeah.
And it would be like, oh.
But, and then when you have an idea like you like, like that, in thinking about it, I was also thinking about Kramer and loving Costco, because I loved Costco.
Still do.
Yeah.
Yeah, you can get so much of something.
Yes, yes.
And that he bought so much beefaroni that he started feeding it to his handsome cab horse, which eventually gave him a lot of flatulence.
Yes, yes.
Ruining the night out for this waspy couple.
By the way, there's a lot of genius behind the show Seinfeld, but I always thought the casting was impeccable, not just of the main characters, but of the smaller characters.
And I went out of my way, because every time George's fiance's parents are on the show, they're spectacular.
They are.
So I looked them up It's Grace Zabriskiech and Warren Frost.
Yeah.
And I just wanted to give a shout out to the universe.
The character acting they do on that episode and other episodes as well, the one where the cabin burns down, is they're impeccable.
Yeah.
They're fantastic.
Really, really great.
You know, just unbelievable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The guest casting was amazing.
And what was great about then them as bosses for the writers was you could be involved in every step of the process.
You know, you're involved in casting.
And, you know, now that I work on shows, people send in tapes, which is horrible.
You know, it was so great when people would walk in the room and they go, hey, where's the hot seat?
You know, and they'd sit down and you get a vibe off of them and everything.
You could also see how nervous they were in front of people instead of self-taping at home.
But you'd be part of the casting.
You'd be part of everything.
So editing and all that.
And a lot of times writers don't have that opportunity on shows.
So that was really great.
And to cast these smaller roles and people that just took off, you know.
And even like the regulars, like the tennis episode I did with Morley Matlin, the lib reader.
Yeah.
It's like, what are the four stories going to be?
And for Kramer, for that, you have a tennis episode.
Well, he's got to be a ball boy.
And then you know that's going to be funny.
We called him the ball man.
And then he was rehearsing.
Michael would rehearse these physical things over and over.
People just thought he just did it automatically.
He would really rehearse it.
And he just rehearsed as a ball man the entire week.
You work on a show like that, I think it's an immersive experience.
I thought, I've said the same thing about Saturday Night Live where you're not just a writer.
There's the old idea of the writers are off in a separate building.
Yeah.
And there's no light, the shades are drawn.
They're just in there coming up with this and they're treated sort of with contempt, and then the scripts come out and then the director, the producers, the actors make it, and no one ever goes near the writer's building.
And I always thought a great gift that Lauren gave all of us was even if you had only been working there for a week, and it sounds like the same thing that.
Larry and Jerry would do, which is, no, you're in charge of everything.
If it's your sketch or if it's your episode, you're in on the whole thing, which opens you to the world of casting props.
When should we see things?
How should we see things?
Maybe go talk to the director, make sure you don't cross any lines, do it tactfully.
But you're in charge of the whole thing because it's your baby.
And that invests you with great sense of responsibility You try so much harder.
Exactly.
Because also, you know, your ass is on the line if something goes off.
So you do have that sense of responsibility with an episode, which is great.
You know, the saddest thing to me is that I'm a big collector.
So I took the, we couldn't use Beefaroni for some reason.
It's Beefarino.
Yes.
Yeah, they made us change the name.
So I had the can that the prop guy came up with for Beefarino and I had it in my apartment on Flores in West Hollywood and then when I moved I forgot to take it.
You know, move it away and the guy thought it was just an empty can and they tossed it.
I know yeah, it's the fact that I'm here today.
I mean, it's not the snow globe from Citizen Kane, but But it's close.
The Beefarino can.
You know, someone's going to find it.
I know.
Yeah, that's right.
It's long after you and I are gone.
Yes, right.
Someone's going to find it.
It's going to be auctioned off for like $600,000.
Oh, come on.
More than that.
Okay.
All right.
I mean, it's the future.
Well, you're right.
Before we move on to other shows you've worked on, I have to ask you I know that you were the comedian who opened for Frank Sinatra.
Yes.
I have to ask you about that.
Yeah.
And this is 1989.
Yeah.
So I must know.
Crazy, crazy story.
All right.
So in 1989, I'm getting some gigs.
Things are good.
I run into this agent who's supposed to be, you know, big time at the time.
He's like... you know, Carol, I think you could be doing even better.
Why don't you come to my office, write down the gigs you have had and how much you got, and we'll go over it?
All right.
So I wrote them down.
I came to his office.
And right away, looking at the list, he was like, you got this at Sir Laugh-A-Lots?
Oh, that's a joke.
You know, you made this much at the Chuckle Hut?
No, that's pathetic.
Oh.
Great names, though.
So he said, why don't you sign with me?
I was like, okay, great.
So we start working together and if things are, you know time is passing by.
I'm literally working at ground round restaurants doing comedy nights there.
Yeah.
Where you can't even be heard because people are, the sound of peanut shells crunching on the floor.
Yeah.
You could not even get over it.
So I would call him and go, what's going on?
Where are these big gigs?
He was like, I'm working on Frank.
Yeah.
And at this point, I'm like opening for like Frank Stallone.
Who are you talking about?
Oh, you can only dream of opening for Frank Stallone.
So then I work on a cruise ship and I get a phone call.
Now you know, if you got a phone call on a cruise ship in 1989, somebody died or your place is on fire.
And it was the agent.
And he said, you're going to open for Frank Sinatra at Bally's in Las Vegas for shows.
And he apparently knew Jilly Rizzo.
Yeah.
Who is Frank's guy.
Yeah.
And so I got the gig.
And I called my friend Larry Miller because he had opened for Frank.
I worked with Larry years ago.
He's amazing.
To get some tips because I was a little nervous.
And he said, oh, they're going to love you.
You know, it's a great gig.
His audience is great.
And it was an amazing... It's still today the top of my career showbiz experience.
But walk me through...
You go out.
Is there any, what's the inner, is there interaction with Frank?
Yes, there was.
Is it after, is there, you do your set?
I do my set, but I learned something very important as a comedian with that gig, because I was a little nervous about going out there.
I went out and I said, oh, I'm so happy that Mr. Sinatra asked me to join him here at Ballet's.
And then the audience was like, oh, okay, she's Frank's girl.
All right, yeah, yeah.
So that helped my set a lot.
So I'd do my time, 15 minutes.
You know, they had the clocks in Vegas on the stage floor.
You got to keep it at 15.
And then Sinatra would come out, and he'd bring me back for a bow.
Oh, wow.
But he said some cryptic things sometimes.
Like one time he said, that was Carol Leifer.
I wish my mother had been that funny.
I wouldn't have had to work so hard.
The summer breeze came rushing in from across the city.
Yeah.
And then another time he brought me out.
He says, that was Carol Leifer.
She's big.
She'll knock you over for the phone.
What?
Well, to be honest, I talk like that now.
And the podcast just seems to still be doing well.
So, and people just think I'm, oh, that's Conan with another one of his funny gags.
I'm going downhill fast.
I mean, that's real show business.
Yes.
That's old time classic show business.
Opening for Frank, getting called out for a bow.
Yes.
But what a gentleman.
I mean, I have friends from that time who opened for people in Vegas who would not even bring them back out.
You know, I would tell you the names of the acts, but I really shouldn't.
But some of them are very supreme.
Ah.
Nice.
The clothing brand supreme.
Wow.
The pizza, the burrito supreme.
The burrito supreme.
Okay.
I was going to pay you a compliment and I've said this to the producers of Hacks and I've said this to the stars of Hacks that I have found it to be one of the more accurate representations of the comedy process.
We all know that there have been many times where people have tried to capture what it's like to be sitting around thinking of funny ideas.
And it's never right.
It's never right.
Hacks is the closest I've seen when they're riffing off of each other, when Hannah and Jean Smart are riffing off of each other or going at each other.
It feels to me like oh, people that write comedy are accurately portraying what it's like to try and come up with stuff.
I mean, do you remember that movie Punchline?
Yes, I was going to, where stand-ups all have their own locker.
Yes.
Right, exactly.
Yeah, no, it's when I saw the show for the first time.
So Gene is the first actor I've seen who is convincing as a stand-up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean completely, because there are so many actors who've tried it and you can just sense something is off.
But she goes out there when she does her stand-up on the show and you totally buy that she's Deborah Vance the comedian.
Yeah.
The episode where she fills in for the late-night host at the last minute and really scores and at the end of the night everyone's leaving and she's running her hands over the desk.
Mm-hmm.
I don't tear up at anything, anything.
Wow.
I start to tear up and I'm on a flight and my wife is looking at me and she thinks I'm watching a dog get put down or something.
And I show her what I'm watching.
And I just said, I know that completely caught me by surprise.
Right.
It really got me the feeling of, I love being behind this desk.
And this, I think I finally found, I'm like a snail that finally found his little shell.
This is my home.
That killed me.
Absolutely killed me.
But I salute you.
I mean, the writing.
I mean, I got to the privilege of doing an episode of Curb, one of the last episodes.
And it was really fun.
I know I was saying I would in between takes, I'd go and we would chat in between takes.
And it was so funny because my experience was Larry's the same.
It's not like and cut and Larry drops it.
If you get a bite to eat with Larry or Larry's been over to my house at a Christmas party and he's like, you ever notice?
And he's doing the same stuff and he's being the same guy.
And you think I'm just waiting for the one.
He is the same person, the same.
Yeah, he actually just built a show around who he is exactly and he's always he's always larry david, like.
I asked him when i got married if he would do a speech and of course he was like yeah, you know, i ruined my golf game that day.
Yeah no, i can't do it.
Yeah, you know, it's so larry david Yeah.
One thing I've noticed about him is if he's really laughing, his teeth move, but his jaw doesn't in a weird way.
So he'd be going like, ha, ha, ha.
And he's not doing a bit.
No, it's like a little Jerry Mahoney doll.
Yeah, it's like a little ventriloquist doll.
And the first time I saw him do it, I thought, is he making fun of me?
No, that's how he laughs.
It is.
And he was making fun of me.
Yeah.
But he does have a great laugh, doesn't he?
Great laugh.
Yeah.
When you make him laugh, there is no better feeling in the world.
Yes.
It's a very nice thing.
I'll experience it one day.
And you were great on the show.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, I had a lot of fun.
I like whenever there's an opportunity for me to be doing the episode of Curb.
I looked over the script and I realized, oh, I see what this is.
The assignment is because there's a lot of improvising, too.
Yeah.
Whatever larry wants, make sure he doesn't get.
It is really the and that is the essence of curb, which is a lot of times he wants something.
Is it okay if i just?
And someone will say like well no, actually it's, it's too per customer, and that would be a third just deny him the thing that he wants, don't give him what he wants.
So with me it was just is it okay if i, can we hang out?
And I'm like, you don't have clearance.
Don't give it to him.
And anything he would and they were just riffing.
And he's asking me about my dog and shut down everything he wants.
Just be a dick.
Yeah, exactly.
And who knew I could be a dick?
Hey.
Huh, right?
Yeah, yeah.
That's called acting.
You were being method all these years.
Right?
You were preparing for this role.
I was preparing for this role of Conan O'Brien.
Yeah. which I think I did really well.
I want to bring up... That's also... Oh, sorry.
Oh, go ahead.
His genius that he would take things Like he and Larry from Seinfeld.
They always loved real-life ideas.
And Larry loved it on Curb.
So when I pitched to him...
This true story that I had this great fold-up umbrella that I loved.
It just opened perfectly and closed.
And then I lost it.
And I thought I lost it.
It was from the Omni Dallas Hotel.
And I thought I left it at a Japanese restaurant.
So, of course, I went back and the owner was like, you know, I was like, have you seen him?
You know, a black fold up umbrella is like, yeah, I have 3000 of them back here.
Yeah, but mine says Omni Dallas.
And it was like, no, we don't have that.
But the genius of Larry David is.
He creates that he's in a fight with the owner of the Japanese restaurant, so that not only can he not get the umbrella back, but then it becomes also about well, it's really the Omni Dallas's umbrella.
So why should I give it back to you?
So he takes it like six steps forward, which is brilliant.
It's so oppositional.
Everyone's opposed to him and he's opposed to everyone in the universe.
And it's, I think, one of the things that's magic about the show.
And also you can see how much of it is.
The George Costanza character in Seinfeld is constantly creating his own misery in this particular way, separate from the other characters.
He's creating his own misery constantly, which is very Larry.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And he really latches on to small things.
Like the first time I went to pitch for Curb, I went in and my first idea was when you're a funny person, a comedian and a regular person, you tell something funny, say something funny and someone goes ba-dum-bum to it.
How much you hate that.
It's so insulting.
And Larry Mead was like, yes, yes, I like that.
So we used that.
To me, it's like if you came up with a comedy idea and someone would go like, yeah, that's cute.
That was like being shot in the groin.
And not in a good way.
I want to make sure that I talk about this because you've written a book which could be of help to people, which is how to write a funny speech.
You say for a wedding, bar mitzvah, graduation and every other event you didn't want to go to in the first place.
Yes.
And your foreword is by none other than Carol Burnett.
How did you pull that off?
Carol Burnett.
Well, you know, I've written for Carol.
I wrote for her 50th anniversary show, her 90th birthday special.
And so I've got to know her casually.
Yeah.
And she's amazing.
She's a magical person.
Oh, my God.
Isn't she?
So...
I reached out to her and I said you know, I have this book and if you'd be kind enough to write the foreword and of course, approaching somebody like that I'm always with.
But if you can't do it, I totally understand.
No problem, no harm, no foul.
And she was like, yeah, send me the book.
So this is on a Friday, okay?
Sunday, she calls me, she goes, I read the book, I loved it, I'm happy to write the foreword.
I mean, who does that?
Would not be me.
LAUGHTER
What is this about again?
Conan, we've talked seven times.
No, it's really lovely that you got her to do it.
And the advice in here is very smart, good advice for people.
I think about how to be funny if you're going to give a speech.
The most important is length.
Yes.
And I can't tell you how many times I have witnessed someone, they get their laugh.
Yeah.
And you're like, good, good.
And then they keep going.
Right.
And you're like, no, no, no, no.
We're talking to you, Adrienne Brody.
Just witnessed that on the, I was backstage at the Oscars.
And I so wanted to, I thought it's late in the day.
Don't be a dick.
So wanted to go out there and say, you thought, you thought Brutalist was long.
Yeah.
It would have been such a, it was just such a softball hanging there.
And I thought, ah, yeah.
How close were you to do?
Very close.
I can see where you, I was for a second.
I almost said that speech needed an intermission.
Um, But then I thought, oh, I'm going to see him in a minute.
And he'll get his paybacks coming from the world.
People telling him for the rest of his life, why?
Why?
But what you said.
You know how many people get up and tell a speech, do a speech and they don't say who they are.
They just start talking about the person.
And you're sitting there three minutes in going, is this his aunt?
Is this a teacher?
Who is this to this person?
I mean-
It's just important to get up there and go hi, I'm Aunt Betty and I've known so-and-so since they were born.
Just something as simple as that.
Gives you a connection.
Yeah.
I always get up if I'm giving a speech and say, I was this person's lover.
It's often not true, but it just gets you right away.
That is a great opening line.
Yeah.
We were lovers.
It was a very sexual and sensual relationship.
Yeah.
But I mean, I've noticed something that a lot of people it's a whole generational thing they read off their phone.
Yeah.
Which I find a little off-putting.
I don't like it either.
I don't like it either.
And I've seen people do it at, I mean, serious, big, like there's a casket there.
Yeah.
And someone's like, well, my father, and they're like, wait a minute, I'm getting a text.
Yeah.
It's weird.
It is weird.
You know, part of the advice we give in the book, you can't you don't have to memorize it.
You know, just if you have a card, have some bullet points.
Yes.
But also, you know, practice it in front of someone who's going to be at the event.
That knows the person.
That's a good idea, too.
But reading is.
Yeah, that's a big turnoff.
Also leave room space, like have ideas of what you want to say, but leave space for what's happened in the last 10 minutes.
Uh-huh.
So that I'm looking around for okay, I think I know what I'm going to do, but if a coffee urn exploded two minutes ago-
Don't just lock into, nope, this is what I wrote last night.
Make room for the coffee urn.
Yeah, be in the moment.
Be in the moment.
And people react to that so beautifully.
Humans know when something real is happening.
I don't know how they – I like humans.
These humans I've encountered in my time here on Earth.
But they do.
They know when something organic is happening.
And they can also sense when it's not.
Yeah, absolutely.
We have a lot of jokes in there, jokes to steal for the events.
But the beginning, middle, and end, it's really not all that difficult.
Yeah.
Yeah.
People can make it harder than it actually is.
Yeah.
And look at it.
It's handy, right?
Small.
It's not a giant tome.
It's not a tome.
No.
This is not a Torah.
What's the stick you read with?
Hey, thank you for the Jewish reference.
Well, I said the stick.
So I don't think I get a lot of, what?
Adam, the what?
The yod.
The yod?
Mm-hmm.
Yep, fellow Jew in the group.
How to Write a Funny Speech for a Wedding Bar Mitzvah, Graduation and Every Other Event You Didn't Want to Go to in the First Place, with a forward by Carol Burnett.
And it actually is a very helpful book.
And this was nice to get a chance to sit down with you and talk to you, because you're such a fixture in the comedy business in all the best ways, that I'm constantly seeing you and we're crossing each other in busy hallways and there are showgirls and people dressed as horses, and You know yeah.
People dressed as German soldiers and you're on in five minutes.
Hey, Carol, how's it going?
Hi, Conan.
And we pass each other.
So this is really lovely that we got to do this.
And you know what I wanted to say because I would be remiss if I didn't.
I mean, to host the Oscars is really a tough gig.
It's really, really tough.
But I will tell your audience that beforehand when I went to wish you luck, you said, you know what?
I just want to have fun out there.
Yeah.
And you did.
And that's amazing.
That was the mission was obviously do a lot of work beforehand and prepare.
Yeah.
But I was determined to.
I mean, actually is the thing that's helped me a lot on the podcast and the late night shows over the years is I learned a long time ago if I'm having fun, it's going to work.
So I can't contrive that.
I just have to figure out situations and things to say that I'm going to have fun doing.
Yeah.
And put enough of those together where I will have fun.
And if I'm having fun, people will start to have fun.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So you really weren't all that nervous going out.
I would say I had.
It's yours.
Oh, really?
I'm getting a text right now.
No, it's a spam call.
I don't know why.
And it's all turned off, by the way.
I don't know why it made a noise.
It was vibrating.
I put it on vibrate so I have a sensual experience.
Not even on you, though.
It doesn't have to be at this age.
Just hearing something vibrate gets me all hot and bothered.
But no, I'd be lying if I said I did a lot of preparation.
But when the time comes and they tap you to go out, let's just say you're focused.
Yes.
I'm not a nervous wreck, but I am very aware.
Yeah.
That you go into that tunnel vision, which I'm sure, I mean, you've had a million times.
When it's time to go, I don't think nervous is the right word for it.
Right.
Because I'm nervous when I go to the dentist.
Yeah.
It's a different feeling.
It's a real intense, everything...
Everything narrows to like a pinpoint of light.
Yeah.
Anyway, congratulations on the book.
Thank you.
And thank you so much for coming.
Oh, it's my pleasure.
We'll come on back.
You're a fan.
We have a lot to talk about.
I know.
We sort of have a lot to talk about.
I know.
How come I'm the only one not talking like this?
Yeah, because you haven't had a small stroke.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
We pride ourselves on professionalism here at the podcast.
And you think I'm being, you know, foolish.
Some of us are less professional than others.
The acme of professionalism.
The height of professionalism here, I would have to say, is Matt Gourley.
He's a pro.
He's a real pro.
I didn't think that was coming.
No, no, you are.
You are.
You know.
I'm not even going to go there.
But anyway, Matt puts the whole thing together.
You come in.
You're always on time.
You know what's going on.
You hold this whole thing together.
And I say that.
I'm not kidding.
You really do.
You are the maestro.
So when you showed up late today, I got worried.
Because whenever you watch... You didn't.
Whenever you... What's just for the pretend?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay, sorry.
I think you mean you got excited.
Yeah.
There are similar emotions.
They're both a form of excitement.
There are subsets.
But I, wait, Matt's late?
That never happens.
And in any crime documentary, when the punctual person is late, it means they've been murdered.
Yeah.
So my month went to a dark place, which is look if Sona's late, it's like oh well, another crazy night for Sona.
Oh, my God.
Well, whatever.
You know, she'll be here.
She'll stumble in at some point.
But I was concerned.
I was concerned.
And you, sir, say you have a tale to tell.
Oh, yes.
Speaking of tail, we had a cat emergency.
Okay, what happened?
Well, this is not the first time this has happened, but our cat, Margo the fat guy, has some digestive issues as she gets into her later years.
How old is this cat?
She's 13.
13.
She's gorgeous, though.
Here's a grumpy photo of her with a hemorrhoid donut on her head because she couldn't chew one of her wings.
It's a very good-looking cat.
It might be tight.
Age is just a number.
I'm sorry.
What?
Might be time.
Wow.
13?
How dare you?
No, no.
Some cats can get way up there.
They can go to 20.
Okay.
Well, let's hear how she's doing.
Yeah.
Oh, man.
Well, this is the third time, unfortunately, we've had to give her an enema, not personally.
Oh, God.
So she has to go to the vet because she's, first of all, she's psychotic and she's obsessed with food.
So if we don't feed her in the morning, she meows incessantly until we wake up and do it.
So then we got an automated feeder that would dispense dry food, but that constipated her.
And that's when we had to give her these enemas.
Now we finally found this wet food automatic feeder where you could load it the night before, and it has ice packs.
And so she'll sit there and stare at it all night long until it goes up, but she doesn't bother us.
But she still got constipated.
And when we get- Can you get, wait, can you, oh, go ahead.
It doesn't matter.
Well, she gets constipated.
And so we're on like 24 hour poop watch, hoping she'll poop.
And it goes, you know, sometimes it'll go a few days and we start to get really worried.
So we take her to the vet and they want to give her an enema.
But what that means is she comes home and she's just like like if a toothpaste tube was missing.
The top
Okay.
Okay.
I told you this was disgusting and you still wanted to do it.
There's a leakage?
Yeah.
Unbelievable leakage.
And she also does this thing that we call 2D scooching, where she sits on her butt and pops her hind legs up in the air and pulls herself with her front legs and just scoots along the floor, whether it be hardwood or rug or whatever.
Do you remember those old toys that you used to draw with a wax crayon on a mat and then you'd put a car and the car would follow the wax crayon?
No, I don't.
No, me neither.
I don't remember that toy.
Oh, my God.
You grew up in the 1910s, I believe.
I'm just remembering.
I'm remembering that.
And then you were trapped in ice for a while and then we melted you and you came out.
It's the same way that people knew what I was talking about with Inka Binka Bottle Inc.
The cork fell out and you stink.
They'll know what this is.
Okay.
Okay.
So some days we'll come home and there's just this like...
No.
Trail around the house.
Didn't you have an Okie shit story?
Yeah.
Like once.
This isn't a regular occurrence.
Are you judging me?
Excuse me.
I'm keeping a cat alive.
I understand.
One that you tried to kill, by the way.
But maybe, maybe it's time.
Oh my God.
You need to stop that right now.
This cat is my life.
This is the only being in my household that acknowledges, that gives me any attention, okay?
The other two are off on their own all the time.
This cat loves me, sits on my lap.
We're bonded.
And you want to take this from me?
Hey, I have a question.
Is there shit on your lap?
You're making jokes.
I'm trying to come up with a solution.
Oh, I'm sorry.
There's leakage.
Not when she's on my lap.
There are pet diapers.
Are there such a thing for cats?
No.
Margo would just never tolerate it.
She would rip it off.
She's insane.
Our vet tried to put her on Prozac.
Oh, boy.
And what happened there?
We didn't do it.
Why not?
I don't know.
Dope that cat up.
That cat should be on lorazepam.
I know.
We figured out the feeder.
That cat should be like...
That cat should be on the White Lotus, shunked up on the Razapan, like Parker Posey, you know?
That cat should be stumbling around in a really expensive Bangkok...
Hotel going.
One time she ate chocolate.
Oh, great.
Well, this will go well.
Once, I don't know what happened.
We gave her a large eclair.
We did not.
She got it.
She gets into everything.
She will eat vegetables.
She'll eat anything.
And she went to the bathroom in a closet that was so disgusting.
Oh, jeez.
And by then I hadn't remodeled it.
So where the floorboards met the wall, there was like a half inch crack.
And I remember just, it was so disgusting that I just put I disinfected it, but I put baseboards on there and cocked it all up.
You sealed it into the house?
It's there forever?
Just like the bodies in the pool in Poltergeist, someone's going to open these up one day.
You left that for a future homeowner.
I have no choice.
Sweetie, it's our new home.
Hey, sweetie, happy 2055.
We're both young and I'm expecting and we're moving into our own house since the Gorley murders.
I can't believe a woman beat her husband to death with his own tuba.
Hey, let's start prying up the baseboard so we can begin the remodeling.
It's come to life by that point.
What the shit?
Yeah.
Oh, God.
It's a demon.
Is this just part of your life now?
This leakage is just what it is.
Maybe once a year this seems to be happening.
Oh, that's not so bad.
No, but it's harrowing when it does happen.
She's just this oddity.
One time we were living in a second story apartment and she was so big that she would sit on the ledge that it started bulging out the screen on the window.
And then...
She fell out the window but rode the screen down.
Like, remember in Temple of Doom when they ride the raft out of the airplane?
She rode the screen down.
And I looked down there and she was just fine.
She was just fine.
Oh, my God.
She's insane.
Wow.
Maybe it's time.
Oh, no.
Oh, no.
Oh, no, it's easy to do.
All right.
Well, listen, and the cat's name is Margo.
Margo, the fat guy.
Yeah.
OK, that's gender confusion.
Margo, the fat guy is is a lady cat.
Is she is she fat?
Yes.
She comes and goes right now.
She's because she's constipated.
Although after today, she's lost weight.
Oh, man.
Well, please, if you're out there, pray, pray, pray.
We'll take them.
There's a lot going on in the world, but this should be the priority, is Margot the fat guy.
She's fine now.
She's fine, I should mention.
When she's in her sweet spot, you know, on my lap, there's nothing better.
I wouldn't put that thing on my lap for a million dollars.
Start scooching around, using my knee as toilet paper.
Then I come to work and people think I shit my knee.
Hey, you shit your knee, Conan.
Why did I agree to talk about this?
Why did I agree to talk about this?
I should have never.
We wish you all the best.
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian, and Matt Gorley.
Produced by me, Matt Gorley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao.
Theme song by The White Stripes.
Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.
Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair.
And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.
Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.
Additional production support by Mars Melnick.
Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn.
You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode.
Got a question for Conan?
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