Please note, this episode contains discussion of mental health issues, suicide and weight loss and body image, including specific weights.
I believe strongly that when you're buying bagels from the store, everything bagels must be sequestered in a separate bag, because any bagel that touches an everything bagel becomes an everything bagel.
Agree or disagree?
I agree.
That to me is honestly like a kosher law.
This is The Sporkful.
It's not for foodies, it's for eaters.
I'm Dan Pashman.
Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people.
And before we get into the show, I want to tell you about a super cool live event we have in the works.
We're going to be doing a run of shows at Little Island which, if you haven't been there, it's this beautiful park on a pier on the Hudson River that has performance spaces, food and more.
Now, these shows we're doing will be free.
No tickets required.
You can sit on the grass with a view of the water and hear us tell a story entitled The Great Yogurt Feud.
And yes, there will be free samples.
These shows are August 28th, 29th, and 30th.
That's Friday through Sunday, 5 p.m.
Same show every evening.
So come on down and hang out with us at Little Island.
All right, let's get to the show.
Do you know anyone who's taking GLP-1 like Ozempic or Wegovy or Zepbound?
Maybe you're taking one yourself.
Not only do I hear more and more people talking about them, I hear more and more people saying they're on them.
Recent studies say somewhere between 12 and 16 percent of Americans have used GLP-1s.
Now, weight loss has always been a loaded subject.
It touches on physical health, yes, but also stigma, shame, and mental health.
Society tells us it's bad to be fat, it's bad to be unhealthy, but also getting medical help to address those issues is somehow cheating.
If you can't do it through diet and exercise, you must not be trying hard enough.
And yet I've heard from so many people on GLP-1s who say these meds have helped them lose weight, in some cases addressed health issues and also fundamentally changed their relationship with food.
Now, this is a big topic.
We're not going to cover all of it today.
We're going to hear about one person's experience, Jason Diamond.
He's a writer who covers men's fashion, food, and a lot more.
And he wrote a recent story in New York Magazine called Eating With My Daughter and My Zip Bound.
I was curious to understand Jason's relationship with food, as well as various types of medication from his childhood to today.
How did he get to the point where he decided to go on a GLP-1?
And how does he feel about it now that he's on one?
So we had a lot to discuss.
But, you know, this is The Sporkful, so I wanted to start with a subject near and dear to my heart.
Bagels.
Jason, to start us off, I have a little surprise for you.
Oh, boy.
You wrote an article a few months back suggesting that the bagels on Long Island, the suburbs of New York City, were better, are better than the bagels in the middle of New York City.
Yeah.
And you took a drive out to Long Island and you listed your top bagel places on Long Island.
I did.
I did.
And I live on Long Island now.
I'm from New Jersey, for the record.
But I happen to live just down the street from one of the places that made your list.
Oh, wow.
Country Hot Bagels.
Shout out to Country Hot in Northport, New York.
Oh, my gosh.
Wow.
Wow.
I got about a dozen bagels here.
This is great.
My daughter is going to be, like, super psyched.
She's going to try to eat all of these.
Yeah.
Wow.
Now, I just bought these this morning.
Oh, you got the Bialy's?
I got you a Bialy.
Thank you.
I figured you'd be a Bialy guy.
Yeah, that's what I'm going for.
Should we have a bite?
I'm going to have one bite of my bagel.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, this is great.
God, this is a Bialy.
Oh, my God.
Thank you.
Sure.
By the way, this is the second Bialik I've had.
This is not the first Bialik I've had today.
That's amazing.
Which is, yeah.
Jason, you are nothing if not on brand.
Yeah, that's very true.
Jason grew up outside Chicago.
He also visited New York a lot where he had family.
He said that as a kid he spent a lot of time with immigrants and old people, which instilled certain food memories in him.
So I remember specifically opening my mother's father's refrigerator and not being tall enough to get to the top and seeing this like white paper with like the kind of blood on.
What is that?
I remember getting up there and it was a tongue.
It was cow tongue.
So tongue is usually the first thing I go to.
Like the whole tongue?
It was a big... I mean, I was maybe five.
So to me, it looked like the whole tongue.
But stuff like that, like tongue, liver.
And also, I like vodka.
When I do drink...
For some reason, vodka just always kind of takes me back.
Because I knew a lot of, like, Soviets and a lot of Soviet Jews and a lot of Eastern Europeans, and they were always drinking vodka.
Yeah, so, like, stuff like that.
And what about cooking?
What kinds of things were being cooked?
So obviously, like my mom loved to make liver and onions and I hated it and now I love to make it.
My grandma, my nana... never cooked anything, but had her famous chicken, which it was just chicken.
And everyone was like, this is the best chicken in the world, Nana's chicken.
It was just a rotisserie chicken she got at Dominic's.
And she never told anybody that, but she called it her chicken.
You know, and I also grew up just around a lot of different immigrants.
My next door neighbor was Indian and the other one was Mexican and the other one was Greek.
And then, so I would you know, go to their houses and I'd just kind of be able to eat all these different foods.
And you know it kind of early on, kind of showed me like everybody, we all have our own foods, but there's ways to sort of like connect.
A big part of the reason why Jason spent so much time with his grandparents and neighbors was that things at home weren't good.
His parents weren't together.
He had been diagnosed with ADD.
And when he was eight, his parents were debating whether to put him on medication.
His dad was against it.
He was like, it's going to turn him into a zombie.
Which, it's not, that's not what Ridland does.
But he definitely did not want me going on it.
And my mom, I think my mom saw it as more of like a magic bullet.
Like, oh, it's going to cure everything.
So they just went back and forth and You know they used my doctors and my mental health as like another bargaining chip in the.
You know who pays for what and who gets this, who gets that.
Jason did eventually go on Ritalin, but it didn't help in the way his mother wanted it to.
Then he was diagnosed with depression and started taking a variety of antidepressants, which only complicated things further.
I was on Paxil, I was on Welbuterin.
They switched me from.
I don't even I've taken so many meds in my life that I forget what they all were.
I was literally taken off of one of them without like any wind down time.
And I had to go through withdrawal and I wanted to kill.
I literally wanted to kill myself.
I've never been a suicidal person, but I was like this is the most miserable feeling I've ever felt in my life.
Hearing all this, it's not hard to understand why Jason developed a skepticism of medication.
I just didn't feel like it did anything for me.
And I've always had this like anti-authoritarian streak.
I've just never liked people telling me what I need or...
Unless there's a good reason, like why?
This other one didn't work.
Why is this going to work?
And nobody could ever explain that to me.
Jason continued to struggle with mental health, and dealing with his parents only compounded the issues.
My dad's an alcoholic.
He was pretty abusive mentally, physically.
And when I was about 12, he kind of went over the edge and lost all custody of me.
Um, you know, and my mom, I don't think my mom and I ever really got along.
You know, just from the from the jump.
I think she saw too much of She saw too much of my father maybe in me.
And I think she was just like, oh, so now he's my problem.
When I was about close to turning 16, like 15, 16, just one day, my mom was like, I'm moving.
I'm moving down South, South Carolina.
I just want to get away from here.
You can come or you don't, you don't have to.
And I'm like, okay, I'm not coming.
I don't know if it's like a generational thing, but I was the poster child of like one of those like late 1980s, early 90s kids who would just ride his bike for miles and, you know, come home whenever and stay up.
You know, I just didn't have any real rules.
So I'm like, I could do that.
So you had a couple months living in the house you'd been living in with your mom.
A month and a half, yeah.
She's gone.
Yeah.
And like, what were you eating?
I worked in a McDonald's, which was problematic because at the time, I believe I was I wasn't vegan, but I was vegetarian.
So I was just basically living off of just take buns home.
I would eat French fries.
And yeah, you know, I did grow up like in the punk scene.
Not to like make it like this, like hard scrabble life, but like my friends were, like we're going dumpster diving.
I'd be like, okay, cool.
Let's go get some dinged cans of beans and I'll.
So it's just like stuff like that.
I was just eating whatever didn't really put much thought to.
I ate almost everything with hot sauce on it though, so anything, I would just put hot sauce on everything.
It was a meal, and then at a certain point the house gets sold.
Then where do you go?
I don't remember the exact, because there was a lot of places, but I would stay with friends mostly.
I stayed with a lot of friends.
These were friends who were still in high school.
Yeah.
And were you going to school?
Yeah, I was going to school.
I actually stayed with a teacher.
A teacher kind of figured out what was going on.
And, you know, she passed away a few years ago, but to her...
I remember when that book came out, somebody was like, you've had a lot of angels in your life.
And that thought has stuck with me.
And I've carried it with me because it's true.
And she could have turned me in.
Or she could have said something.
But instead, she's like, you need a place to stay.
Just come stay with me.
I want you to finish school.
I want you to be able to Come tell me that you, you know, got made something of your life.
So I stayed with her for a while.
I stayed with friends.
I mean, I slept, I did sleep outside a few times because I had literally nowhere to go.
Like a friend ditched me and I'm like, I have to sleep on a bench tonight.
This is crazy.
I slept on the beach a few nights.
I got my own apartment when I was like 17, 17.
By the time he was 18, Jason was off all meds.
After high school he spent a little time in Florida, then moved to New York with dreams of becoming a writer.
His first day in New York, he went drinking with friends and ended up at this Ukrainian diner called Odessa at 3 am.
There's a whole history to that place.
In what used to be Odessa, that was where Black Flag asked Henry Rollins to be their singer.
Like, you know, there's like a punk rock.
There's all these different, like, weird little pieces of history.
But next door, there used to be Odessa Bar, which was like this weird...
Like Western themed, but it was Ukrainian.
I don't remember what the deal was.
And I knew the bartender, you know, he was a friend of mine.
Like we were like, whatever, AOL friends or something.
And he hooked us up, got us drunk and went next door.
And I just remember...
The lighting was bad and there were people like speaking other languages and I just remember getting however many pierogies we got and Cream cheese onions, the whole thing.
And potato pancakes.
We got a lot because the waitress I could tell she was Ukrainian and obviously did not want us there at 3 in the morning.
But I'm like, oh, this is home.
I'm home.
I'm already home.
In his first 24 hours in New York, Jason rediscovered his love of food.
But that doesn't mean the clouds magically parted.
He was still struggling to find his footing after the difficulties of his teenage years.
He describes himself during that time as a terrible, obnoxious person who got drunk a lot and didn't really have any friends.
I think I had arrested development.
You know I couldn't really hold down a job.
I would steal from jobs.
You know, if i needed extra money or i would do this.
You know it was like shade.
It wasn't i don't even think it was shady, but it was just like this sort of like leftover survival, just like stuff from like trying to like get by.
After the break, Jason's life starts to stabilize.
Then later, he has to decide whether to go back on meds and whether to start GLP-1s.
That's coming up.
Stick around.
And now, a delicious word from our sponsors.
It's very good.
Welcome back to The Sporkful.
I'm Dan Pashman.
I've spent part of every summer of my life in New England, so a Sporkful episode about fried clams and lobster rolls was the perfect excuse for me to eat on the job.
In our episode from a couple weeks ago, I go to Woodman's, a restaurant that's been in business for over 100 years.
Their claim to fame is that they're the inventors of the fried clam.
Woodman's is still owned by the same family.
I talked to the grandson of the founder and I welcome a special dinner companion, my mom, who grew up in the area.
When was the first time you came here?
I used to drive here in my 1959 Pontiac Bonneville.
I was talking to my friend.
We used to go by Endicott when it was a junior college to spy on her ex-boyfriend.
Don't put that in.
Too late.
Check out this episode from two weeks ago, called Welcome to the Clam Capital of America to learn how the fried clam was invented and to hear more about that ex-boyfriend from Endicott Junior College.
All right, back to my conversation with Jason Diamond.
As he entered his mid-20s.
Jason had been in New York for a few years and things were starting to stabilize for him.
He published articles in some magazines while paying the bills working at bars and restaurants.
Then, when he was 29, his life changed in a big way.
That's when he met Emily, his future wife.
There is like literally the B.C. and A.D. of my life.
That's Emily.
And I don't feel any pressure.
Any, like, pause even saying that.
Like, you know, my love for my wife is so just deep and ingrained in who I am.
Jason had found a life partner, one who shared his love of food.
I'm more I hate to say adventurous, but I am the one who's like, let's go.
I want to go try this like.
Go find this like taco place that I heard about.
About a year and a half into dating Emily, there was another big change.
Jason got health insurance.
And I'm like, okay, cool.
I'm going to start going to the doctor again.
And you know, not long after that I think we just kind of realized you know, we don't ever want to be away from each other.
We're definitely going to probably end up getting married.
And so I'm like, you know what?
If that's true, then I need to start seeing a shrink again, because I know there's a lot of things I need to work on.
I didn't want to like bring all that baggage into my marriage and started seeing a doctor.
And the first thing we did was I was like you know, when I was a kid I had ADHD.
But now I'm in my I'm like 31 i've grown out of it right and diagnosed again.
She's like no, you still have adhd.
Jason was also diagnosed with anxiety and obsessive compulsive personality disorder, which is not the same thing as ocd.
With ocd, people experience intrusive thoughts.
Obsessive compulsive personality disorder is more a preoccupation with perfectionism, organization and control.
I don't have to like click things 10 times, you know, but I have to have things a certain way, but it doesn't infringe upon other people.
Like, I'm not going to tell you to do this.
Like, I'm not going to be like, you have to be right there because I need you right there.
It's more in my head.
I need things to be a certain way.
So Jason was dealing with that and anxiety and ADHD.
In consultation with his therapist, he decided to go back on meds for these various issues.
He was at a very different point in his life from when he was 18, when he went off everything.
He also started meditating.
He kept going to therapy and he got himself organized.
He created routines and schedules around when he would eat, when he would work out, when he would meditate, and it really helped.
All that together with finding meds that work for him.
It's insane.
I don't tell anybody anything when it comes to their mental health or their bodily health, whatever.
But for me, I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe I figured it out finally.
Jason's career started growing, too.
He got a job as a food writer for Men's Journal.
I always joke but it's actually true that I was like the token fat guy at a men's magazine that wrote a lot about like abs and how to get, And I remember
They would just send me to all these like food things.
And I was like, I am eating these crazy meals for free, like five nights a week.
From there, he jumped to Rolling Stone.
He and Emily got married and he published his first book, Searching for John Hughes.
It's framed as a quest to write a biography of the beloved director John Hughes, but it's really more of a memoir about Jason's own struggles growing up.
When he turned 43, Emily gave birth to their daughter, Lulu.
That day, Jason did what Jason does.
He picked up two dozen bagels, smoked salmon, and whitefish salad for the hospital staff.
The next day, with Emily and Lulu sleeping in the maternity ward, he set off again to the classic Manhattan restaurant JG.
Mellon.
It's an old-school place with green and white checkered tablecloths, where the Heinz ketchup is still in glass bottles.
Jason took a seat at the bar.
So I bought a martini and I took one sip and I said hey, I'd like to buy a round of drinks for everybody at the bar.
I just had my first kid.
He just told everyone.
He's like, hey, this guy's buying drinks for everybody.
He just had his first kid.
They were like, oh, yeah.
A little cheer goes up from the bar area.
Yeah, and everyone was just so like oh man, you know, all these, it's like three guys were like I also have a daughter.
It's the greatest thing in the world.
And you know, I just felt like I had, in a lot of ways.
If there's ever a moment in my life where I feel like I made it, it was that.
Like I have gotten to the point where I'm like, I have worked my ass off.
I have done everything.
I've tried to be a good person.
I'm in love with my wife and now I'm a dad.
It's all I ever wanted to be was a dad, above all things.
And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do.
I'm so afraid.
I'm so excited but I'm so afraid.
But I'm going to have this one moment to just be a little.
I won't say careless but, like you know, just something kind of out of the ordinary.
And I'm like, I'm going to do it.
I'm going to buy everyone drinks and do it.
Yeah.
It was very beautiful.
I'll always appreciate that moment.
Coming up, Jason faces a new challenge.
A friend of mine had said.
You know, when I told him we're having a kid, he said well, congratulations on thinking about your mortality.
That's after the break.
Stick around.
It's time to open up a can of advertisements.
Welcome back.
For most of his life, Jason didn't think a lot about his weight.
For the past decade, he'd weighed around 240 and he was content with that.
I've always said that I have a George Costanza look.
Like, you know, I'm a stocky Jewish guy.
It's like it's sort of a thing.
It's like not like... out of the ordinary, but I'm like, you know, I look fine.
I'm pretty happy about my looks.
The one person that matters, Emily, loves how I look.
Or she says she does.
I think she does.
But, you know, like I just didn't really care that much.
Like it just wasn't a thing.
And I would look at like photos of like guys in like the 30s or 40s, like those...
Guys you'd see at like, you know, old steakhouse and they'd just be like these robust.
I'm like, I'm one of those guys.
Right.
You know, then you, you know, you forget to look and they'd be like dead by like 50.
All those like three martini lunches and like rib eyes.
Yeah.
It wasn't like a, like a macho thing.
It wasn't like a basket.
It was just like, I looked up to the guys in my life.
The men who did set a decent example for me as a kid were like my grandfathers.
And that's what they did.
They were, you know, they liked to eat steak and they liked to sit in silence and watch baseball.
And, you know, they liked to, you know, go to the Schvitz and stuff like that.
But then, after your daughter's born, something changes that makes you think about your way differently, which is what.
A friend of mine had said.
When I told him we're having a kid, he said well, congratulations on thinking about your mortality.
And it's not to me I ever really thought about like living or dying.
I'm like, oh, there are probably like a dozen times in my life I probably should have died.
It didn't really bother me.
But I looked at Lulu and I'm like oh, I got to be here for you cause I'm already, you know, an older dad by being 43.
And, um you know, I I was like a lot of the men in my family have not done too well like strokes cancer, heart attacks, stuff like that.
And um, the doctors said I'm in pretty good health, except I've been pre-diabetic for like eight years, which I'm like how long do you have until you're no longer allowed to just be pre-diabetic?
You know, like, so I was like, huh.
And you know, I was obese and my blood pressure was high and Just all these things.
And I was like, okay, those numbers aren't good.
They weren't saying you're going to die if you don't do these things.
But I'm like as you get older you know it's harder to get healthier, to lose weight, to do these things.
I'm like, okay, so I need to change.
I need to figure this stuff out.
For Jason, that meant talking with his doctor about whether or not to go on GLP-1s.
But it was complicated.
For one.
There's a cultural norm around manhood, health and weight, as if caring about your health or trying to lose weight is somehow weak or effeminate.
This is borne out by surveys showing that men are less likely to go to the doctor than women.
And when it comes to GLP-1s, men are less likely to take them in nearly every age group.
Jason could see that attitude with other dads he met, including one in particular that he was chatting with at a playground.
He writes about it in a story for New York Magazine.
Here's Jason reading from that piece.
We somehow got on the topic of how I wear moisturizer with SPF in it.
And he told me that he just doesn't see the point in men putting stuff on their faces.
Just age gracefully, he said, before going on a little rant about how everybody is trying to change their bodies and bringing up drugs like Ozempic and Zepbound.
Even if Jason didn't agree with that, he could still feel that sentiment out there, that judgment.
And there were other things weighing on it because of his own history.
Here he is reading again from that piece.
Deciding to take medication is a big deal for me.
I'm one of those children of the 80s and 90s who was overmedicated by my parents and doctors in hopes of curing everything from ADHD to anxiety and depression.
And it brought skepticism in me that I've had to work hard not to immediately default to.
But as we've heard, more recently, Jason had started to overcome that skepticism.
He'd experienced the huge benefits of going on meds when they were the right ones for him.
Once I started thinking about taking a medication, I'm like, I've done this before.
I've thought about why these medications will help me.
Okay, I'm doing this.
And after you took that first shot, how did you feel?
So I've taken enough medications in my life and I had done enough research.
I knew I wasn't going to start losing weight right away.
But I did.
I did.
Not to get too TMI, I'm like, oh, I am peeing all the time because I was drinking so much water.
Because I drink a lot of water to begin with, but you lose a lot of water weight.
But the craziest thing, and I never understood this, how bad this was, was food noise went away.
Food anxiety is very real.
I had never realized how bad I had it.
And I started thinking about I'm like man when I was younger and I would go like oh, I didn't have dinner.
I couldn't get anything to eat tonight.
That would stick with me in a way I didn't understand.
Like, I would be like, you screwed up.
You were not able to do this.
You suck, Jason.
You know, it was like things like that.
Like, oh my God, if I don't get another meal tomorrow, I might die.
Like, that's a very realistic, genuine fear.
You have to add in generational trauma then too.
Everybody, both sides of my family, whether it was pogroms or Hitler or communism, the people who came before me went through all of it.
And there was a lot of starvation.
And that gets passed down.
And so like...
You know, I didn't really realize how bad it was.
My like, just need to eat.
This like, this terror if I didn't eat.
And growing up around a lot of immigrants, you know...
You try to waste food around them, they'll smack you.
It wasn't like, eat your this.
It was like, smack.
Like, you eat that.
And that probably, I mean, and now I know, that really had a real big effect on me.
That term, food noise, is becoming more and more prevalent, and GLP-1s can help to alleviate it.
Stanford recently published a study that found that these drugs have changed quote the psychological experience of eating itself.
There are also some small early studies suggesting that these drugs may help with addictive behaviors like alcoholism and gambling, which also involve a form of noise in your head that comes from cravings.
It was just something that I just had never considered.
Like, I suddenly was like, okay, I don't need to eat everything that comes out here.
Like, I can take it with me if I'd like.
Which you know.
It's not like I'd never took stuff home with me before, but I'm like in the moment, as I'm sitting there, I'm not thinking that.
Also, I feel like sometimes I worry like I'm going to be hungry again in 45 minutes.
Yeah.
You know, it's like I feel satisfied now, but I don't want to get up from the table and like clean everything up and then realize I'm still a little bit hungry.
Like that would be a catastrophe.
Yeah.
And so I better eat some more now to make sure that doesn't happen.
Yeah yeah no yeah, preparing for the worst.
Right, sounds like.
It sounds like yeah, just like.
Oh wow, we have it so hard.
But i think about a lot of things that way, like maybe it'll be gone, maybe i won't have this tomorrow, maybe my wife will not like me tomorrow, maybe i won't get more writing gigs tomorrow.
Maybe i want to because i'd experienced that, And with food, because it's something you need that you can enjoy.
There's so much to food in terms of like, the psychology of like, from making it to the memories, to the whatever that you don't really think about, all the layers until it's kind of like stripped away.
Another fear of Jason's before he went on a GLP-1 is that he wouldn't just eat less, but also get less pleasure from eating.
Some patients on these meds do report that issue.
It's become so prevalent that the food giant Nestle is changing the formula for some of its packaged foods to account for the fact that GLP-1s can dull the palate for some people.
As much as Jason didn't want that, he was willing to accept it as a trade-off for being healthier and living longer.
Luckily for him, though, in his particular case, it didn't happen.
And like one of my best friends...
She goes, do you hate food now?
I'm like no no, actually I'm more obsessed with it now because I'm like I'm enjoying it even more.
We are in the season where Emily doesn't like to cook in the fall winter as much.
I do.
Once spring produce starts hitting because we're at the market every weekend.
She's just like, I want to cook more.
Like last night she made this just like you know this is a veggie pasta, but it was just like it was so fresh.
And I'm like, oh, this is so fricking good.
And I had like seconds and I'm like, you know, I'm just going to take one more bite.
Cause it's really good.
And I was smiling doing it.
I felt myself smiling while taking that, that, that little last bite.
Like, this is great.
And I never would have done that before.
I would have just been like, you know, it's still something I'm getting used to.
I'm almost a year into it.
And, um, yeah.
Jason published his story back in March.
He says it touched a nerve with people, especially other men and, in particular fathers, because the focus of this story wasn't about how he looked.
It was more about how eating with his daughter had changed for the better.
He was less focused on what he was cooking and eating, more present with her.
And he talked about how this drug could help him live a longer life and spend more time with his family.
I have friends text me like, you know what?
I need, I'm going to start taking these.
Thank you.
Like my blood pressure.
I'm going to, my dad died when he was three years older than I, you know, thank you.
Like I've never gotten the kind of outpouring for a piece like I got for that one.
Like in that, in that sense, like people just being like, thank you.
Right.
Like you've made me legitimately think about this differently.
Can I ask you how much weight you've lost?
I am at 40 pounds.
I've lost 40 pounds.
I'm closing in on being at 200, which is pretty crazy.
And what about... pre-diabetes heart conditions?
Like, where are your numbers and health in terms of those things?
I actually got the email from my doctor a month ago because I had to go for just a checkup.
And she's like, congratulations, you're no longer pre-diabetic.
I was like, damn, man, that's beautiful.
And I cried.
That's Jason Diamond.
He's currently writing about parenthood for New York Magazine.
You can find links to his articles and books on his website, jasondiamond.net.
Next week on the show, it's time for our annual game show episode, Two Chefs and a Lie.
My old friend Rachel Martin, host of NPR's podcast Wildcard, will be our guest.
She'll talk with three people, two of whom are real chefs, one of whom is a liar pretending to be a chef.
Rachel will ask each of them five questions, and then she and you will see if they can spot the liar.
That's next week.
While you wait for that one, check out last week's episode about the mystery of why McDonald's ice cream machines keep breaking.
That one's up now.
Check it out.
And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app?
Yes, the SiriusXM app.
It has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage.
Does your podcasting app have that?
Then there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more.
It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one.
And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to SiriusXMcom slash Sporkful.
This episode was produced by me, along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern and senior producer Andres O'Hara.
It was edited by Camille Stanley.
Our technical director is Jared O'Connell.
Music help from Black Label Music.
The Sporkful is a production of Sirius XM Podcast.
Our executive producer is Camille Stanley.
Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.
And I'm Emmy, calling from Travis Air Force Base in Fairfield California, reminding you to eat more, eat better and eat more better.
