Hello and welcome to World Today, I'm Ding Hen in Beijing.
Coming up.
China unveils a special guarantee program to support private sector investment, and the plans are also on the way to spur consumption.
And we will explore China's role at this year's World Economic Forum.
Germany brings back EV subsidies to boost EV sales.
Japan's Prime Minister calls snap election three months after taking office.
To listen to this episode again or to catch up on previous episodes, you can download our podcast by searching World Today.
China's top economic regulator says authorities will unveil a plan within this year on implementing the strategy to boost consumption.
It will cover the 15th five-year plan period until the year 2030.
China's National Development and Reform Commission says the government will continue to use trading programs and subsidies to support consumption of goods such as EVs, but its focus is shifting towards services.
In the meantime, China's Ministry of Finance has announced a special guarantee program with a scale of 500 billion yuan, or 71 billion US dollars, to support investment in small and medium-sized private enterprises.
The National Financing Guarantee Fund will cover median and long-term loans, as well as financial needs related to daily business operations.
So for more, joining us.
Now on the line is Dr Yao Shujie Chang Kong, Professor of Economics with Chongqing University.
So thank you very much for joining us today, Professor Yao.
Officials with the NDRC have admitted that China's current economic operation features strong supply but weak demand.
How can China's economy better align supply and demand over the next five years?
The Chinese economy is facing two major challenges.
On the one hand, the economy is growing rather steadily due to the manufacturing industry, which has been boasting quite steadily over the previous years.
But once they come to the consumer sector, because the construction industry, particularly the housing industry, which is declining rather deeply, which actually gives a lot of pressure for the consumers.
They become very cautious because their wealth is shrinking, because the housing price is declining.
And apart from that, the construction industry is the piglet industry which has affected the upstream and downstream economy, which affect lots of investment as well as employment, which lead to a cautious attitude of consumer about how they can consume and spend money for the future.
So the challenges of consumption is, I think, number one is how to strengthen the housing industry.
And number two is to provide more services.
We are talking about investment in human beings rather than investment in the physical infrastructure.
Of course, investment in physical infrastructure is still very, very important, but we should shift our focus to investment on the people.
Investment on the people.
In this sense, in the textbook case we talk about services, but what kinds of services which would boost people's confidence on their consumption?
I think is basically education and also healthcare, also retirement pension, the elderly care, as the population is aging.
And also people's willingness to have young children is actually rather weakening.
So the services is basically to provide some sort of support, so they reduce people's pressure and also anxiety about their future life, about how they look after their children and the elderly in the future.
So, in other words, to paraphrase what you have elaborated, Professor Yao, the services industry, such as education healthcare, etc etc.
They are seen as a key focus for boosting China's domestic demand, including consumption, especially over the longer term.
That's right.
I mean you need to strengthen the education certainty, especially the quality of education, not only in the major cities but also throughout all the other part of the of the country.
Uh, you know, quality provision of education, reducing the burden on children's.
Uh, you know, after class, um you know, study burden, excessive assessment of school and so on.
And uh, you know, healthcare i think the chinese health healthcare has been uh you, you know, uh trump, trumpeted by many people that it is is getting more and more efficient.
But there are.
One key issue here is that the distribution of high quality health care is highly tiered to the to the big mega cities and at the lower level added more, more reasons.
The quality of healthcare, medical treatment still requires a lot of improvement.
And this is probably somewhere that the central and the local government can focus on making more investment in this area, including making the so-called public partnership to strengthen the quality and also the efficiency of health provision in the smaller city, the town, village level and also the remote region.
In the meantime, what do you make of the significance of this National Financing Guarantee Fund announced by the Ministry of Finance?
And in what ways can the task regarding supporting private investment contribute to the mission of boosting domestic demand?
It is a fairly positive step forward.
The Ministry of Finance was, of course, guided by the State Council to provide a special funding, you know, guarantee fund for the small and medium-sized private enterprises.
Regarding the consumption, why it is related to the confidence of the small and medium-sized enterprises, because in China, although the large state-owned enterprises still contribute a significant output and investment.
But the small and medium-sized private enterprises.
They are the major market holders who provide employment, and employment is highly important for people's income.
So the private, medium and small enterprises they got to be supportive so they have the confidence to invest and also expand their operations, making sure their product is also welcomed by the market, which can create more adequate employment for the ordinary people.
And as long as the ordinary people have confidence in the market, they will be more willing to consume.
And if they are more willing to consume, they have more ability to consume.
Then the consumption would be stabilized and also improve in the coming year.
We understand China's central bank.
The PBOC, has just decided to keep its loan prime rates unchanged for an eighth straight month.
Some say this is a sign that Chinese authorities are focusing on targeted support for some specific sectors or industries to bolster the economy, instead of relying on broad policy easing.
What is your take on this?
The interest rate is very important.
I think over the last few years the prime rate of lending and borrowing has been declining rather steeply.
And I think it's a relatively lower level for the enterprises and also for the savers.
The central banking authority have to strike a balance between the savers and also the people who want to borrow the credit.
So keeping the rate at a stable stage will give some sort of expectation.
The investment will be based on the concept of calculated rate.
And people will have a choice to make investment and also consumption.
Now, the central authority will move when it comes to the prime rate.
It's a very important market parameter in this case.
So in relying on some sort of quantitative easing, I think the budget this year we're talking about increasing the state budget deficit from normally 3 probably to about 4, and also we mentioned that the special guarantee fund of 500 billion you know there may be for the small enterprises.
This is to some extent is some sort of quantitative easing, but it is rather limited and also very specialized for the special sector, especially the private sector.
The final question before we let you go, Professor.
The International Monetary Fund has raised its 2026 economic growth forecast for China by 03 percentage points from 42 to 45, citing a truce in terms of US-China trade war as well as the rolling out of stimulus measures in China over a course of a two-year period.
According to the IMF,
What do you make of the organization's forecast here?
The IMF probably is based on the former performance of the Chinese economy, particularly the real economic growth in 2025, which achieved a 5 point, which is quite impressive to me.
Although underlying this 5, there are lots of challenges, especially the investment that we have just mentioned about.
Now the IMF forecast of 42 previously is probably understating of what China can actually achieve.
By raising 03 percentage point to 45.
I think that more or less reflect China's real capability to reach the new economic growth target in 2026.
Although the economic target could be set in the coming two conference sessions by the People's Congress and the People's Political Consultative Committee.
But a lot of guessing is that China could probably have another year of 5 growth rate, or probably slightly less to about 45.
So in my view, I think 4.5% to 5% is a achievable target for the Chinese economy in the new year.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Yao Shujie, Chang Kong Professor of Economics with Chongqing University.
Thank you very much.
And coming up, we will explore China's role in this year's World Economic Forum.
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The World Economic Forum's annual meeting is getting underway in Davos against the backdrop of heightened geopolitical tensions and economic uncertainty.
This year's theme, A Spirit of Dialogue, reflects a growing recognition that cooperation is no longer just optional but essential.
China is firmly in focus at this year's forum.
From meeting its 5 growth target in 2025 to China's expanding role in advanced manufacturing, green technologies and artificial intelligence, the country is being widely discussed as both a stabilizer for global growth and a key driver for future innovation.
For more on this, my colleague Zhao Yang earlier spoke with Dr Zhou Mi, Senior Research Fellow with the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation.
So Dr. Zhou Mi, Davos this year is themed around a spirit of dialogue.
In today's geopolitical environment, what does constructive dialogue actually look like in practice?
And what's the barriers to make it?
Well, I think that many people know that the dialogue is a very important way for people to exchange their information, together with opinions.
But nowadays we are facing many challenges.
One of the example is that some countries trying to express its opinion and do not want to hear from the other side.
So we know that dialogue should be based on the equal position and also some kind of interchange between the two parts.
If it's just one country or one part, it's giving their message to the others.
They do not want to hear from the others.
It's not the dialogue.
It's just giving a speech.
So I think that is really a problem because you know we have to respect the situation in the equal ways.
We have to hear from different sides and trying to get the best kind of a solution, not only based off our own or some part's own practices or ideas.
I think it's really a very important way because the world is facing so many changes.
And the World Economic Forum, or WEF, warns of rising geopolitical and economic risks, yet still points to modest improvement in the global outlook.
So, with factors like shifting assets valuations, rising debt, geoeconomic realignment and rapid AI adoption reshaping the economy, how should we interpret this cautious optimism?
And which forces will matter most in the year ahead?
In my understanding.
I think that the fact is that the world is still having the strengths or potentials to have a better performance in the coming year because of, you know, a lot of technology are really input more abilities for a better location of the resources and the better ways of doing businesses.
But the problem is that do we have enough confidence that this kind of new practices, new technology, can be input in this traditional ways of doing businesses?
Do we have the kind of consensus about which kind of criteria should we follow in this kind of new practices?
If we are not able to reach this consensus, i think that many enterprises just have to deal with this problem by themselves.
They have to imagine what are the best way for them to do that.
So the world is, you know, a lot more interconnected with each other different stakeholders.
So with the technology, it is possible for us to do a better way for all the our related stakeholders.
But if some companies just, or some countries just, do the things for itself, based on a selfish way of thinking, i don't think that we can really benefit from this goodness of the technology.
But still even worse is that there may be distort of the order right now and also make all of our activities are even a more dangerous position.
And China has been repeatedly highlighted at this year's Davos as a major contributor to global growth.
So why is China so central to these global discussions?
Well, I think that China's performance is really good.
Yesterday, we just heard that China has 5% of GDP last year.
I think it's really remarkable compared with most of the large economies in the world.
China's developments are not just on the total volume of the GDP.
So if you are looking at different sectors consumption investment, import and export most of these indicators are really very nice.
I think that means that China is really a very good harbor for the people to save from the uncertainties.
So if China can do that, I think that many economies will think whether they can also benefit from these certainties.
So maybe they want to know the reasons why China can be so stable, and also trying to find out what are the solutions for themselves, if they are able to deal with this uncertainty, whether they should discuss these issues with China, or whether they want to, or they should do to, improve their relations with China.
And, as you mentioned, China has just announced its GDP grew by 5 in 2025, meeting the annual target.
So how significant is this performance in the context of global slowdown and the uncertainties?
China's GDP contribution to the world GDP reached 30%.
So I think that is really a very difficult thing because, you know, last year, especially last year, in the year of 2025, we see so many unusual things happened and the fluctuation of the tariffs and many more barriers and even some distortion of the global supply chains are really giving the world so many uncertainties.
I think that China's practice is based on the volume of its domestic market and also the very firm commitment about the openness.
So this kind of practices are what's the globalization look like.
So in such a way that China still stick to our principle of globalization.
I think that is also kind of a thing that we can share with other countries or partners, that if you are going to stick to the globalization, you can still benefit from this certainty.
And there is strong interest in China's innovation, ecosystem and green transformation at this year's Davos.
From a global perspective, which aspects of China's economic transition matter most and why?
I think that it matters most for those countries you know who are not have the abilities to develop their own kind of products, like the new energy vehicles or some of the digital products, like you know, for many at least, the developed countries or, you know, the emerging economies in the southern market.
I think these countries really need some affordable practices and solutions to deal with such kind of new areas.
And even for some of the developed countries.
I think they do not have enough abilities or companies who are really caring about those people, those people who do need more kind of green solutions and products.
So I would argue that it's not just about certain countries.
We can just look at different classes of these countries and many of them really want to be greener and they want to be supplied with affordable solutions and updated products and services.
And how important is China as a partner when it comes to deal with the global challenges, such as climate change, green transformation, AI governance?
Yeah, for one part, I would say China itself, it's one important part.
If we are not able to do that, I don't think the world can reach its goal.
So China's efforts are really very fast forward.
We are trying to reduce our carbon emission domestically and make a lot of requirements for the manufacturing to adapt to this quarter of the carbon emission.
Well, as another part, I would say China's contribution to the world is really significant.
So the EVs, the solar panels, the wind turbines, our products are really helping so many countries to transfer from the traditional fossil fuels to the new energy.
So the practices, the ideas are really are kind of a thing that is practical for the world.
And I would say it's not only about the physical parts or physical level of the products and services, It's also about the rules.
So we can try to discuss about what should be the fair rules for the green trade, not just like what the EU is going to do with the carbon border adjustment mechanism, like trying to protect itself while force other countries to do something else.
So we should base the equal position to discuss about the fair international agreements or rules.
It's very important.
And AI is widely cited as a key force reshaping the global economy.
So Dr. Jomi, what is AI already changing in terms of productivity, growth and competitiveness?
And what kind of international cooperation is needed to make the global AI governance really workable.
Many countries are, you know, having the companies who are doing the ai related solutions the, the chips and also infrastructure.
I think in this way, china's companies are really are working very straightforward.
We are Based on the market demands.
We are trying to give the people many ideas, not just the kind of thinking, but also the products for them to use at home and in the factory.
So I think it's an ecosystem.
We need to make it better to fit for the demand of the market while, at the same time, to take care of the problems and the challenges which is very important for us to address in the transfer from the traditional ways to a new way based on the AI.
Dr Zhou Mi, Senior Research Fellow with the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation.
Talking with my colleague Zhao Yang.
More to come, Germany brings back electric car subsidies to boost EV sales.
You're listening to World Today, I'm Dinghan in Beijing.
We'll be back after a very short break.
You're back with World Today, I'm Ding Hen in Beijing.
Germany has reintroduced electric vehicle subsidies in efforts to accelerate the transition to less polluting cars.
Private households in this country with a taxable income of no more than 80000 euros will be eligible for subsidies.
Foley electric cars are eligible for a subsidy of at least €3000, and the plug-in hybrids are covered by a basic subsidy of €1500.
The previous German government scrapped an earlier subsidy program in 2023 due to a budget crisis.
So joining us now on the line is Professor Jung Gong from the University of International Business and Economics.
Thank you very much for joining us. very much for having me.
So, after plunging in 2024 following the end of the last subsidy scheme, EV sales in Germany actually managed to rebound last year, in 2025, which represented almost 20 of all new cars sold in this country.
So to what extent do you think this latest subsidy program can spur EV sales in Germany?
Well, I think this is out of two considerations.
First of all, I think there's a need to help the German auto industry.
Volkswagen and Audi and BMW, Mercedes Benz they're all sort of in the transition to an EV era, because these companies understand that there'll be no future if they don't do that.
Now.
But on the other hand, you know, the sales of these EVs, even though there's a coming back last year, you know hasn't been sort of the, you know been increasing to the level that these companies would like to see.
So this is one consideration.
The second consideration is that the German government also understands that this is an unstoppable trend, that the Chinese companies are exporting EVs into Europe, including Germany.
And these cars are very competitive pricing wise, also very competitive.
So they understand that if they do something about it, sooner or later, you know the The German auto market, which is probably the last bastion of European auto industry, is going to be swamped by cars from China.
So I think this is actually where they're coming from.
They want to see that the Germans transition towards an EV era.
You know it's a climate agenda friendly environment for automobiles.
And also, you know, German auto industry, on both fronts, they don't want to be left behind.
I think this is what's, you know, mostly what the German government is coming from.
Okay.
Now some media reports suggest that the German government will open its subsidy programs to all manufacturers, including Chinese carmakers.
In what ways can Chinese companies or Chinese brands contribute to the market in Germany if they can somehow gain access to the subsidies?
Well, I think this is actually very good news for Chinese companies.
Volkswagen is already cooperating with Chinese companies, has an equity stake, I believe, in a company in Anhui province.
BMW also has an equity stake in an electric vehicle manufacturer here in China.
So they understand that cooperating with Chinese companies is actually a very good way of moving forward.
And I think building EVs is not so much about just making a car electrified, but also includes developing all kinds of new features and applications associated with what's described as a smart vehicle.
And along this front, you know, Chinese companies have been moving very fast.
There have been many innovations in that area.
So I think Volkswagen and other German automakers understand that cooperating with Chinese companies is a very good strategy.
And I think you know this new announcement that these subsidies will be covering cost from China or Chinese manufacturers as well.
It's actually very good news for German market, because I think it's a good idea to attract Chinese companies to establish manufacturing in Germany and in solely owned, subsidiary or joint venture or whatever.
It all contributes to not just meeting the demand of German consumers customers but also in terms of elevating the German auto industry to the next level, which is something that they desperately need right now.
Yeah.
Now some say Germany's willingness to open its EV subsidies to Chinese carmakers could have a demonstration effect in the EU, eventually helping build a European consensus in favor of cooperation over protectionism in this industry.
Do you share this optimism, Professor?
Yeah, of course.
I think there's a series of events coming from the European Union with respect to China's exports of EVs to the European market.
Several months ago they slapped a very high tariffs on BYD, on GD and on SIC, which makes MG cars in Europe.
Now they have transitioned towards a minimum pricing scheme, which is a little bit better than tariff.
But I think from consumer's perspective, it's the same thing.
The price is going to be high.
The difference is that the additional money is not going to the European government, but to the Chinese manufacturers.
So there's this protectionism going on in Europe in the first place.
I think, with respect to the attitude towards Chinese companies essentially, I think there are two camps.
One, of course, is Germany.
Germany is still very accommodating.
They don't want to start a trade war with China.
They emphasize the importance of cooperation, joint ventures, stuff like that.
On the other hand, you have these French companies and the French government.
That is very much behind the trade barriers the European Union has set up so far.
I think German's actions will definitely play a demonstrative role for the French that cooperation and inviting Chinese companies into the European market for joint ventures for manufacturing is actually a good strategy.
You can't just protect your market and hope that competition is going to go away.
It's not going to go away.
It's going to make your industry, make your companies even more obsolete.
So I hope the French would learn a lesson here and change their position.
I think at the end of the day, the way the French is doing right now, these two companies, PSA and Renault They can't sustain the future if they keep sticking with the ICE costs.
The final question before we let you go, and briefly, Professor.
We know within the European Union there is an ongoing debate on whether a planned 2035 ban on new combustion engine-powered cars should remain in place.
How do you think this ongoing debate is going to impact EU countries rolling out of EV subsidies?
Well, this debate has a lot to do with the conflict ongoing in Ukraine.
I think Europe's climate agenda has been somewhat derailed by this conflict in Ukraine.
All of a sudden, the Europeans are scrambling around trying to find affordable energy.
And I think this controversy over Greenland is going to further exacerbate the problem, because the United States is a major supplier of LNG liquefied natural gas to Europe.
And I think, in the wake of this very intense conflict over the future of Greenland, I think the Europeans will be further held back by the energy shortage, the high energy prices.
So I think the climate agenda is somewhat being taken hostage of this, all of these conflicts.
So we have to see whether, you know, the Europeans will have to do with respect to both conflicts.
And hopefully you know they can resolve these things.
And still, together we stick to the climate agenda.
Thank you very much for joining us, Professor Zhang Gong from the University of International Business and Economics.
Coming up, Japan's Prime Minister calls snap election three months after taking office.
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Japanese Prime Minister, Sanae Takeuchi has announced that she will dissolve the lower houses of parliament on Friday for a snap general election on February the 8th.
The announcement has sparked protests outside Japan's national diet, with demonstrators warning that an early election might risk sidelining urgent issues such as the rising cost of living.
Meanwhile, the Constitutional Democratic Party of Japan and the Komeito Party are also set to form a new coalition to challenge the ruling bloc in this upcoming vote.
So joining us now on the line is Rong Ying, joining us from Sichuan University.
Thank you very much for joining us, Professor.
Yes, I'm online.
OK.
So we understand the ruling.
Liberal Democratic Party and its former junior coalition partner Komeito, lost their majorities in the lower house in 2024.
And then once again in the upper house of the parliament last year, which forced the Takeichi to forge a fragile coalition partner with a populist party like Japan Innovation, something like that.
Do you think Takeichi, by calling a snap election, can manage to reverse the LDP's recent run of poor election results?
Well, that's exactly the reason why Takeichi wanted to call the snap elections because she's betting, actually counting on the high approval rate of herself, thinking that a snap election would change the fortune in a way that not only consolidate her political power but also, I think, push the opposition parties to more, in a way that the relevance political relevance will become a problem.
And we have known that, in the wake of that announcement and the CDJ, the Constitutional Democratic Party of Japan, and the Comito as this, have decided to form a new party.
They call them centralist uh reform alliance and if you look at the uh just released uh uh platform, i think uh they did.
What the interesting thing is that you see, even on this uh the uh some agendas and uh on the controversial or uh political and social agendas, i noticed that one would notice that there are also who wanted to become a sort of changed their tone in a way that I think would put them in a difficult position to compete or appeal the Japanese voters, which are increasingly conservative and, I think, pro to some extent, that would believe that it would help Takeichi.
Now some say Takeichi's provocative Taiwan remarks, including her refusal to withdraw the remarks, has bolstered her support among voters.
Do you see it that way?
And for example, let's suppose a situation in which, even if Takeuchi's Taiwan remark in a run-in with China recently could give her Some temporary or short-term domestic political gains, what kind of damage do you think they will bring to Japan over the longer term?
That's a great question.
I don't think that the high approval rate of Takagi was the result of her sort of anti or hostile policy towards China, in particular her erroneous remarks related to Taiwan.
Rather, I think the reason why Takeuchi enjoyed a high approval rate was because of her style and because of the policies which she, I think uh, uh to address.
Uh, i mean came out to address the short-term, uh sort of problems, particularly the concerns of the inflation.
Others, for example, in announcing her the uh, i mean the snap elections, they also floated the idea that she would freeze the so-called consumption tax or reduce, I mean scrap the consumption tax, and so on and so forth.
But that would have come up if these policies were implemented.
They would have come up at the long-term sort of health of Japan's economy.
And to address the long-term strategic sort of problems or questions related to Japan's economy.
I think a stable and healthy relationship with China is very much important.
So, all in all, I think it's a gamble by Takeuchi thinking that her sort of winning the election, the snap election, not only will consolidate her power base vis-à-vis the party, but also give her more leverage in dealing with China.
But I think if the first part of Gamble, if even he win the election, I mean, and then if the first part of Gamble she succeeded, the second part would be failed, because without, I think, properly address the problems with China, I don't think the relationship will be normal and long-term and strategic issues of Japan will be properly addressed.
I certainly take your point, and thank you very much.
We know, in terms of economic policy, Takeichi is an advocate of big spending to boost the economy of Japan.
Do you think big spending can solve the problem of the rising cost of living in this country, which we know, according to a recent poll conducted by the NHK, represents the main concern for up to 45 of the respondents in that particular survey?
Well, I think the idea of Takechi, I mean her sort of economic policy, has been largely believed as a continuation of her mentor, I mean the late Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.
But unfortunately, I think a lot of people now agree that the circumstances have been changed.
What Takahashi is facing is an economy that not only, I think, structurally and long-term problems are there, but also, I think, the inflation, which is very high.
And that's why exactly raised the concerns, sort of concern, the voters' concern, which that was totally different from Abe, Prime Minister Abe's times, when instead of inflation, it was the deflation that the Abenomics was addressed.
So, all in all, I think we are now having the Takeichi who said that her fiscal policy is going to be responsible and expansionary, but I don't think her first word responsible, means much for her.
Rather, I think by sacrificing or by putting ahead I mean the back burner.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Dr. Rong Ying, Chair Professor at the School of International Studies, Sichuan University.
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For the first time, Chinese universities have overtaken Harvard to top a major global research output ranking.
Zhejiang University and Shanghai Jiaochong University now rank first and second in the latest leading rankings, which measure scientific publication output.
Chinese institutions dominate the list, claiming 8 out of the top 10 spots.
Harvard University is the only U.S. school near the top, coming in third.
The ranking is based on research published between 2020 and 2023.
It focuses exclusively on research performance, including publication volume, citation impact and the share of the world's most cited papers.
For more.
My colleague Xu Yaowen spoke with Harvey Zeldin, former vice president of ABC TV Network and a senior fellow of the Center for China and Globalization.
Harvey, could you explain in a nutshell why are Chinese universities rising in global university rankings?
Well, it's the Chinese system in part, and it's the chaos that is happening in other countries like the United States.
So in the Chinese system, you have a well-focused system that concentrates on achievement.
So if I can make an analogy, the Chinese system is like a laser.
It's so focused on the goal, whereas in some other countries The focus is not so much that they take the United States, for example, that we're spending so much time in the United States on issues such as attacking universities for their diversity policy, for being too woke.
The political dimension means that university administrators in America, like at Harvard, for example, that just got surpassed in the rankings they have to spend so much time on defending themselves from President Trump and his administration that's flooding the zone with so many of these political and social issues that they don't have time to focus, like China, on making the universities the best that they can be, on publishing these top quality papers, on putting RD into topics that will have significant results.
I mean, you just have to look at where China is now on high quality productivity in terms of so many fields, whether it's EVs or AI or whatever.
So I think it's a systemic problem in America, and China is becoming more adept at achievement because of the way the system is built and the way it focuses on results.
Well, as you said, the rise of Chinese universities did not happen overnight, is the result of the system, with government heavily investing in campuses, labs and national research programs.
In contrast, the universities in the U.S. seem to be facing a very difficult environment.
So could you elaborate more on what challenges are US universities facing and how much do you think federal research funding cuts are affecting their competitive standing?
Well, cuts obviously are part of the problem, because research is expensive and getting talent is expensive most of the time.
Now, i would say that too much time in america is spent on extraneous matters in higher education.
Why should a university like harvard, where i went to law school, have to spend so much time defending itself on issues that are not germane to the university's mission, which is seeking truth, which is building better outputs and things like that?
And so it's only natural that, with President Trump flooding the zone with so many issues every hour of the waking day, that university administrators can't do their job.
They can't hire the best people.
And if they do hire the best people, they will leave.
And many of them, in fact, are work so much better.
So i think it's a combination of ingredients.
It's money um, it's the system, it's the focus, and america is actually falling further behind now because it doesn't have its collective eye on the prize, and that's why um, Countries like China are outcompeting the United States of America now.
Harvey.
So here's another impressive news, and this is according to the National Bureau of Statistics.
China's research and development spending intensity reached 28 last year, surpassing OECD economies for the first time.
Alongside surging university research output,
How directly do you think this increased research and development investment correlates with the rise of Chinese universities in global rankings?
And what role do universities play as key pillars of this national innovation ecosystem?
Well, money is the thing that fuels innovation and fuels achievement.
So it's no surprise really when you tell me that statistic about China surpassing in university research output on the whole OECD.
And this is not just lately.
This has been a trend that has been developing for more than the last couple decades.
It doesn't happen all at once, because you have to build faculties, you have to acquire the best researchers, you have to do publications that are Nobel Prize, quality publications in the best journals, and so on.
And these are the measures that are being used by the various places that measure these things, like this latest study that shows Zhejiang University surpassing Harvard.
And this is an all of government project, really.
So you have to have all the elements in place in order to focus like a laser.
And that's what China is doing.
And I have to say, unfortunately, for my country, we're more like an old-fashioned flashlight.
The light's not very focused, and it's not very bright, unfortunately.
And lastly Harvey, it's reported that fewer international students are going to the US, partly due to travel bans and anti-immigration policies.
So do you think this decline in international student numbers will affect the US universities in the long term and reshape the global flow of talent in higher education and research?
Absolutely, because we need international talent, the best and the brightest, not only from America, if we're talking about US, but from all over the world.
So we want to be able to pick and choose the best people.
But President Trump's immigration policies, Stephen Miller's policies, his advisors policies are to cut funding, to not let in the best people.
Why would somebody want to come to America when they might not be admitted, when they might get a visa and then be thrown out of the country, when they might be arrested by ice?
This is not a climate where you can attract the best and the brightest.
I remember decades ago we did have the best and the brightest in america, but it was a long time ago.
It was more than a half a century ago, with president kennedy and his new frontier and so on.
Unfortunately, China is forging ahead.
The US, no, it's falling behind because it doesn't have its eye on the ball anymore.
China will continue to forge ahead because it's the nature of its system to produce results.
America is mired in the culture wars and they're not keeping their eye on making America great again.
Harvey Zoldan, former vice president of ABC TV Network and a senior fellow with the Center for China and Globalization, talking with my colleague Xu Yaowen.
That's all the time for this edition of World Today.
I'm Ding Han in Beijing.
Thank you so much for listening.
Bye for now.
