Bron Lewis - Is It Me or Postnatal Anxiety? | The Imperfects

Ron Lewis, we are so happy to have you here.

I was walking the streets with my newborn and she was just screaming into my chest.

In this walk, I was just getting angrier and angrier because no one warned me.

And I saw this pregnant woman sitting at a bus stop, screamed, this is really f***ing hard.

And she said, I'm not pregnant, which wasn't great.

Now, Ari was born.

I get home with him and everything's great.

And then on day three he didn't wake up and my mum was there and she lifted up one of his eyelids and his eye rolled back.

Oh my God.

And she said, you just need to go to the hospital right now.

Hands down the worst week of my entire life.

I made up 10 million deals with the devil when I was in there.

It's like, if you get us out of here and he wakes up, I will get off social media.

I will play hide and seek with the kids every day.

I went to the doctor and I expected it to be really quick.

Do you think that you are a good mother?

And that just ripped the lid off my biggest fear.

And I said, no.

And she said, well, let me tell you that you are.

But you're going through something harder than it needs to be because you've got postnatal anxiety.

And it's very clear to me and it doesn't have to be this hard.

This is the Vulnerability House.

So nice to be in the Vulnerability House with someone who could actually now I'm just thinking about it, Ryan if you and I got together and we decided to have a child, this could be our child.

Wow.

Wow, what makes you say that?

We look exactly the same, all three of us.

I don't know.

I mean, I want to say I know what you mean to be supportive, but I actually don't know what you mean.

You're a comedian, I'm a teacher.

Sitting in front of us, we have a teacher turned comedian.

Now I can genuinely say I know what you mean.

Yeah.

It doesn't quite make sense though, because just two parents don't have a child that has a combination of their jobs.

Don't poke holes in it.

It was your idea.

Yeah, exactly.

And also I did, I guess, in my defence I thought you meant from like a physical point of view and I was like that's really unfair on Bron.

LAUGHTER

I don't have glasses, guys.

That's the only thing you guys have in common.

That's true.

And I don't have them.

That's true.

No, you're right.

I am an ex-teacher and I am now a comedian.

So yes, if you guys were to manipulate science somehow and have a baby together, yes, I would be it.

We could have a great hangout where we talk about teaching you talk about comedy, and we just like take it in turns to do that.

And I call you both dad.

Is that what we want?

Let's try that.

I mean, this is the perfect opportunity to try.

Can you actually call me dad?

Okay, dad.

Oh, my God.

How did that feel?

It feels good.

Thanks for having me, dad.

Genuinely feels great.

Oh, good.

Wow.

This is the episode where we've changed your mind on whether having kids or not.

Yeah.

You could have a 39-year-old woman.

If I could get a Bron Lewis, I would do it in a second.

Okay, so for those of you who don't know Bron Lewis, so as we just mentioned, having been a high school teacher for over a decade and now a mother of three, Bron Lewis believes that she is incapable of feeling shame.

Co-winner of the National Raw Comedy Competition in 2022.

Bron stormed the comedy scene with her show Probably it's a wonderful name, by the way and was nominated for the Melbourne International Comedy Festival Best Newcomer in 2023.

Bron was a writer on The Project and is a regular panelist on Thank God You're Here.

Bron is also the co-host of three podcasts, Good Shielders, Work Hates, and Your Two Drunk Aunties.

This year Bron will be appearing with Ursula Carlson in Ursula's new comedy sketch show, as well as touring her own new comedy show Chaos, around Australia and New Zealand.

Bron's new book I'm Not Mad in brackets anymore again, very good names was released in Feb of this year.

What makes Bron so special is her ability to turn vulnerability into connection.

Her comedy feels like a conversation with your best friend.

She's a storyteller who turns life's mess into something joyful.

We are so happy to have you here.

Oh, thank you.

What a lovely intro.

I feel like I know you guys already.

Well, I spoke to Hugh yesterday on the phone, so I know Hugh well enough.

But I've only seen you on the ads and listened to you on the podcast, so I feel like I know you guys.

This feels really comfy for me because I feel like we're all best friends slash father's daughters.

Yes.

And we are missing our uncle, Josh.

I know.

He's at home.

I'm surprised we can't hear him.

He's the loudest vomiter in the world and that's what he's doing in this moment right now.

That's it.

I didn't know we were going to be throwing compliments around so quickly.

No, he's apparently very loud.

Congratulations.

But he had a chicken sandwich that wasn't maybe not the right one to have.

Poor fella.

Yeah, that is awful.

It's sad he's not here, but we will charge on.

Yeah, I will bring Josh energy.

That's great.

So you're going to make Bron cry?

Yep.

Okay.

Yeah, good.

As long as someone makes me cry today, I'll know I've spent time with my fathers.

It all makes sense to me.

Okay, so it's a vulnerability house.

I'm so keen to get into this.

So I wonder unless you wanted to small talk anymore.

No, I'm elevating from small talk to meaningful compliment talk.

Promo talk.

Yeah, I guess it is.

Well, it absolutely is.

But the book is brilliant.

Oh, thank you.

And it's as vulnerable as it is funny.

So I'm extra excited for you to be in the tea house with us.

Oh, thanks.

Thanks.

We've all got the same manager Beck who said to me Surely, after signing me she said I think you've got a book in you.

And I was like, okay.

Get it out.

What?

And I thought, okay, well, I will – I could do that.

Like how hard could it be to write a book?

Said no one ever.

And so I said, yeah, okay, I'll do it.

But it was really hard to write and I didn't write it in order that you would read it, because I had to pick which days – which days I was strong enough to write certain things.

I'd be like yeah, today I can only write a bit about you know how I screamed at a lady, screamed at a pregnant lady, about how hard it was, because no one warned me.

I remember yelling across.

I was like walking with my newborn.

I only had one at this point, walking with the newborn.

And she was just screaming into my chest and she was screaming.

And I saw this pregnant woman sitting at a bus stop and over four lanes of traffic.

Because in this walk I was just getting angrier and angrier because no one warned me.

Like so many people were like, oh, when it gets constipated, you just do this.

Like everyone had a solution for all these things that didn't seem to matter.

Like I was like, I don't constipate.

Who cares?

You know, but the, oh, you'll never sleep again.

I feel like I needed that warning.

Yeah.

So I was like walking the streets with this baby screaming, screaming.

I saw this woman, this pregnant woman, sitting at a bus stop and I was like I'm not going to do her dirty.

So I just screamed over four lanes of traffic, over Sydney Road, screamed, I just said.

This is really fucking hard.

Don't go to work.

Go home.

Go home and lie down because you will never sleep again.

And I remember vividly.

I wasn't even breathing.

I was so upset.

But I thought that she was going to be like, thank you so much.

That's a beautiful warning.

That's so thoughtful of you.

Thank you.

And she said, I'm not pregnant.

Which wasn't great.

No way.

Which wasn't great.

Did that really happen?

Yeah, it wasn't great.

It was a bad moment for everyone.

Oh, my God.

I was underslept and she just was sitting in a way that made it look like she was nine months pregnant, and she wasn't.

And I'm sorry to her.

Shit.

Wow.

That's...

Wasn't great.

So writing that, I was like, I could see the funny side in that.

So there's like funny moments where I'm like, oh, I'm obviously the butt of the joke.

Like I humiliated myself and that poor lady so much.

But then there were other days where I was like I have to get this chapter out, which was a day where I was like, which was much harder than that.

And so it comes in.

It was a tricky book to write, but I'm so glad I wrote it because it was a book that I desperately needed to read when I was struggling.

Yeah.

Brilliant.

Okay.

We have these cards.

So, Bron, you know how the Vulnerability House works, I think.

So for anyone who doesn't, the Vulnerability House is basically a place where people come and they can be vulnerable.

It's a safe space.

We have a deck of cards. available to purchase at theimperfects.com.au.

No big deal.

It would be cool if you did.

But on every single card there's a question which will hopefully invoke some vulnerable memory or a story from your life that you feel safe enough to share with us and everyone.

Listening, slash watching.

So you've got three cards.

I do.

This does feel like I'm reading for my dads.

Sound it out.

Good girl.

Yeah.

You can do this, Bron.

You can do it.

You've read before.

Okay.

Who do you go to for advice and why?

Witch dad.

Comedy advice or teaching advice?

That's right.

When was a time you genuinely needed help and were you able to ask for it?

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

And can you remember a time when someone's honesty hurt you but ultimately made you grow?

I feel like this is for the lady at the bus stop.

Yeah, it is.

Brutal honesty, yeah.

Someone's honesty hurt you.

Yeah, look, I mean...

That one.

In the comedy world and in the teaching world there's so much brutal honesty and it does help you grow.

But I reckon I'm going to go with for this.

When was a time you genuinely needed help and were you able to ask for it?

Okay, great.

Okay.

What pops into your head when you... Yeah, okay.

So...

I had because I've got three kids and I just feel like I misunderstood or I underestimated how hard it was going to be, and it wasn't like just the first one, and then I was like oh, this is hard.

But each kid brought a completely different challenge.

It's almost like I think from what we know of as watching films and TV shows.

It's like the childbirth is really hard.

Yes.

And then after that it's magic.

And they say, like, you'll never know love quite like it, which I understand.

I get that.

That makes sense to me. it's not – that is only one part of it.

And you also never know so much – you never know self-doubt.

You never know regret.

You never know all of these things, because they're amplified when you have a kid and the next one brings a whole new level of an emotion that you just didn't know the depths of until you're in it.

So –

The times I needed help have been so many times during my time as a mother.

But I think I'll go through all three because each child gave me a new version of myself that I didn't necessarily like but has eventually helped me grow.

So when Olive – Olive is my eldest, so she's almost 12.

When she was born, I just thought it was going to be –

Great.

Like I was so excited.

So Lucas and I Lucas is my partner.

We'd only been together for six months and we found out we were having a baby.

I know.

We found out we were having a baby and we were like, holy shit.

But the most delightful part is that we were both really excited.

Like immediately, oh, my God, we're going to have a baby.

Have a baby.

All of our friends were like, this is going to end so badly.

Was there a point like maybe too personal, but was there any conversation with you and Lucas where it was like we're having a baby?

You love me, don't you?

We're in this.

We moved so quickly.

So I met him and he's magic.

He's such an excellent fellow and everyone instantly loves this man.

And he found... he finds me really funny, which I didn't realise was that important.

That's all you need.

Yeah.

That's all you need.

I will marry anyone in a second if they find me funny.

Well, I didn't realise how important it was in a romantic relationship for him because the boyfriend before Lucas didn't think I was very funny.

He thought I was a bit of a show-off.

When I'd love to tell a story, and boys, I love to tell a story, he'd be like, here we go again.

And I'd be like, oh gosh.

Okay, maybe I'm a bit much in this regard, but with Lucas he just thinks everything I say is real.

Well, not everything.

But yeah.

And so from the start, he ticked lots of boxes for me.

I ticked lots of boxes for him, I guess.

And we just knew that it was going to be great.

Yeah.

So, yeah, we became parents really quickly.

My sister already had kids and I'm one of five.

So my mum was like, oh, this is just normal and great.

You know, you're going to be fine.

Nieces and nephews, everything was going to be awesome.

And then we had Olive and...

And she was the hardest baby I've ever seen.

Like just out of mine, I've ever seen.

And she might not have been hard for other people.

Someone might have worked it out really quickly, but I couldn't work it out.

I didn't know.

She cried. like relentlessly for the first four months of her life.

And I know that people are like, oh, four months, that sounds hard.

And she's 12 now.

But like that, four months of crying.

Because just think, if you're on a plane and there's a baby crying, let's just say worst case scenario, you're on a 14-hour flight.

That's long.

And a baby crying for 14 hours, that hurts.

Like that's a memory no one's forgetting.

Like that's part of you now.

And you go, God, remember that baby crying for 14?

Oh, it was awful.

I couldn't sleep.

It's a core memory.

Yeah.

I couldn't taste my shit sandwich because of just the noise.

It was awful.

It is now a core memory for everyone.

And you just think, oh, the parent who was dealing with that baby, that would have been awful.

But 14 hours. truly pales in comparison to four months.

And that breaks you.

Yeah, it does.

It chips away and all you want to do is to make it stop.

And Lucas would be like, why don't you just go for a walk or why don't you get some space?

But it doesn't feel right to leave.

I was like, well, I can't.

So it's just like this – constant self-flagellation of like.

I know I deserve to be here while she's this upset and I will work it out somehow.

And eventually four months in a maternal healthcare nurse was like do you know?

You have to feed her.

I was like, oh, shit, which you just was not getting enough food.

Oh, okay.

Which I just thought that I had more milk than I did and we went on to formula.

So then that became like that relief of being like oh my God, there's a solution here that faded pretty quickly to me, just feeling deep, deep regret or just shame.

I know you mentioned in my bio I'm incapable of feeling shame.

That's probably actually one of my favourite emotions is feeling, But I don't feel shame about the small things.

I think it's the big things that I really struggle with.

But that was like, how did I not know this?

How did I not?

And my mum said to me when I did start on formula, oh, my God, thank God, that poor baby.

Like, why didn't you say anything?

She was like, well, I thought that you'd, I didn't want to offend you.

I was like, what?

He just let me hear a baby scream because he thought it was going to hurt my little feelings.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

And then it got a bit better, but she was still a pretty grumpy baby and I was kind of taken aback by how unnatural it all was for me.

Like I thought I was going to be much better at it.

That's something I haven't heard too many people say out loud before.

I feel like it's a very common thing for new mums to go.

I just assumed it would come naturally to me, but it's not.

Yeah.

That must be an awful feeling.

Oh, absolutely.

You just like you think.

Well, if this thing isn't natural to me, like is anything?

Am I good at anything?

And you go, oh God, I thought it was going to be.

And I look at my sister and there's a point of comparison.

Look at the mums in mother's group and you're like well, their babies aren't screaming and they knew that they had to have more food.

And then you just become – because it's the most important thing you feel like you're ever going to do.

And if you get it wrong, you're like –

What was the point of me doing anything?

So I kind of was thrust in this little bit of a dark space, but a fast dark space, if that makes sense, because I was constantly trying to problem solve, constantly just moving moving moving, moving.

And the only way I could get her to stop crying was by walking.

So I just walked the streets of Brunswick.

Hence, when I screamed over Sydney Road, don't have a baby, or whatever, I said to her.

I know you're definitely pregnant.

Don't have a baby.

So Olive was fast and chaotic.

And then, on Olive's first birthday, I found out I was pregnant with my second daughter, Edie.

And that – I was excited for like a moment and then I was terrified because I was like, oh shit, I have to start again.

I have to start this again.

And what if it's harder?

What if it's five months of not stop crying?

What if I – and what if I?

You know what if I get this even worse and then all of it's – I don't have all these – and so that nine months – was dreadful, because I was just worried that I was going to have a monster again.

And then Edie was born and she was the happiest, chubbiest, most lovely baby.

And instead of me enjoying that, I was just waiting for her to change.

I was like, yes, yes.

People are like, oh, she's easy.

I'm like, yeah, just wait though.

She'll change, like her sister, she'll change any second.

So instead of enjoying it.

I was dreading the change.

It was like free falling.

I was like, it's going to hurt soon.

Like whenever I hit this ground, it's going to hurt so much.

And I don't know if we'll survive it, guys.

So just hold on.

Yeah, yeah.

So how old was Olive when Edie was born?

She was one.

So she's 20 months is the gap.

And so then I had two babies.

And Lucas, how the system works is you get two weeks off and then you go back.

Paternity leave is so short.

And then you go back.

And the first two weeks are relatively easy because they sleep a lot.

They're still recovering from being born.

And then after two weeks they wake up and they cry heaps.

So Lucas went back to work and then I had two babies and two very different kinds of babies, like different species.

I had a one-year-old who, you know, kind of walked around and was toilet training.

So she was like pissing and shitting up here.

And I know Edie who was just like, you know, he had to keep asleep all the time.

And so this chaos that I thought was at max capacity with just having one hard baby just doubled.

And I'd seen so many parents before me have two kids and survive it.

Yeah.

But I could not comprehend that was going to happen for me because it was so hard.

And it was.

The nights were long and the days were long, like relentless.

And you read all these things that terrify you.

Like, if you don't spend enough time, if you don't make enough eye contact with your baby, they will turn to a serial killer.

And I was like, Christ, we've got so many of them.

I'll just, all right.

And that's really a male-dominated field, girls.

So I was like, okay.

It requires some representation, yeah.

So it was never like 20 seconds where I'd be oh, this is easy bit, or just walking to the shops or walking to do this, and then she's strapped in.

Oh, someone's smell.

Which one is that?

And like going to – taking Olive to gymnastics, and Even though you know I don't know any one-year-old that needs to go to fucking gymnastics, but they tell you.

They're like, well, they've got to be entertained.

So they go to singing the songs.

What are they called?

Like there's like places where you go and sing nursery rhymes with your babies and they're useless.

Like they're just like floppy necks and you're just sitting at the back of the thing like going jingle bells, jingle.

And you're just like this.

I mean, I know that's not a nursery rhyme, but I've got no newborns left, so.

But it is basically six adults sitting in a circle singing nursery rhymes while the kids just.

Humiliating.

Absolutely.

It's ridiculous.

Yeah, if you just take a step back.

So embarrassing for everyone in this room.

Is there a general feeling of, like, are we wasting our money here?

Like, we shouldn't be paying for this.

Like, it's the only mile in the room when I'd go and do it.

It's like you've got this very deep voice while all the other ladies are singing.

Even I was like, I feel silly.

My voice is so deep.

Well, musically, that's probably quite a good contribution.

No, they need a baritone and a solo for you, mister.

Yeah.

So they... So...

The days felt like there was always, you have to keep moving, you have to keep going.

And it's really charged by guilt.

If you miss one of these things, you've stuffed it again.

And you've spent your first four months of motherhood stuffing it.

So let's just maybe not stuff it anymore.

I felt like I'd run out of warning shots.

So I was like, okay, I'll just fill the days with things.

And then...

The nights would come and I remember when I'd feel it getting darker and the dread would rise because I knew that I couldn't just walk to shops or I couldn't just like – go to a like jimberoo, or i couldn't.

There wasn't like a distraction, it was rising, is a very.

I get that like.

I think a lot of people listening right now going yeah, i know that exact feeling.

It gets darker and then you get dark internally as well.

You're like here we go.

Here we go again, because you don't know what the night's gonna be and chances are it's gonna be awful, like if one kid has a good night, the other one won't.

Like why would they both have a good night?

That would be too nice.

And they might both have an awful night.

Probably, yeah.

So there would be the – you knew that it was going to be a really long night, and then you'd start thinking about the morning.

You know, when you've got an early flight in the morning and you go, what's the point of going?

– you're like, what's the point of going to sleep now?

There's no point.

I'll just stay up and I'll just be a bit tired tomorrow.

Every single night of having a newborn was that for me.

I'd go, what's the point of going back to sleep now?

I know she's going to wake in 45 minutes.

I know the other one's going to.

I may as well just check.

I'll just see if there's a poo in the nappy because I'm awake.

I'll just go in and then you check and then they wake up and you're like what the hell was I thinking?

I'm an idiot.

I'm an idiot, yeah.

You hate yourself so much.

Yeah.

Even just saying I'm an idiot.

I would have said that to myself, and so many parents will say that to themselves with a newborn 50000 times a day, because you've done something where you think well, this time will be different.

I'll just wipe her nose and she will be fine.

She's asleep.

And then you wipe a little bit of snot and then they wake up and then the whole house is awake and you go.

I'm an idiot.

Yeah. for thinking that I was going to get away with that.

I was an idiot for thinking there was one thing that was going to go my way.

And then I – so with the girls it was constant constant, constant moving, and the moving felt like I was getting somewhere.

It felt like literally moving was getting me somewhere and I was like if I just keep going, the days go faster –.

And I will – and hopefully something will work, you know.

Hopefully something in this day will go my way.

And I became – like I cleaned the house like constantly.

One of my friends – I'll never forgive her for it.

She made a joke but it didn't sound like a joke.

She said to me once, God, your house –

It's so messy.

And she had like one baby, like a blob at the time, and I had a toddler and a newborn and I was like what?

She goes, it's so messy.

And I went, is it?

And she goes, yeah.

You know that that's normal?

And I was like, oh, so she isn't joking.

But I looked at my house and I was like, I thought this looked pretty good.

And years later she said, I thought you knew I was kidding.

Your house was fine.

What?

She's being sarcastic.

But at the time I had no way of deciphering between what was real and what was a joke.

Your brain's not working.

No.

So I was like, oh, my God.

And so that became like a new problem for me.

I was like everyone's laughing at how disgusting my house is, and that's another failure of mine is.

My house is awful.

So I would clean and I would clean and I would clean and also that was moving as well.

I would never sit still because sitting still meant that I was missing something.

And I didn't understand what I was doing to my brain at the time.

And someone said to me, maybe if you love moving so much, why don't you join an exercise class?

I was like, yeah, that sounds great.

And so I joined a really, really low-key one.

It's called CrossFit.

And very gentle on the bones.

And I went to this class and I instantly loved it, because it was a whole hour that flew past and it was an hour that I wasn't with my and it makes me feel awful saying this, so like reserve any judgment, please.

It felt good to be away from them.

Yeah, that's of course.

It felt good to be away from them.

I feel that every day when I leave the house.

Yeah.

I was like, please just give me an hour.

And I was at a place where no one was asking me for anything, and I became very quickly addicted to it for a number of reasons.

One, I think, is because I was away from my house for an hour and it was like an approved absence.

Do you know what I mean?

Like you can't just be like oh, if you said I'm going to the movies for an hour every day, like i don't know what movie goes for an hour, but like i'm going to movies for an hour every day and that's my time, that is like as a to a mother, for a mother to say that that's so self indulgent.

Yeah, we can movie for an hour.

Yeah, i mean, you're gonna eat boysenberry choc top for an hour by yourself, lucky for some.

Yeah, so that is no.

But to go to exercise, To go and punish yourself physically.

To go and punish yourself and to get smaller, to be like, oh, no, I'm doing this.

And then to be a small lady again, everyone's like, ah, that makes sense and good for you.

No, absolutely good for you.

I just have this picture on my head.

I saw you, well, not you, but a version of you yesterday.

I saw a lady trying to get her two kids, who sound exactly the age you're talking about here, trying to get them into the car.

And she had a bag on her shoulder, which had opened up and things were dropping out.

And she was just crying, like she was just doing it, but crying.

And I was walking past, I thought I have to say something here so that she knows I think she's doing a great job, but I didn't. got quite panicked with what to say to wouldn't come across wrong so I just looked at her for a bit and then walked off which was no that was terrible I just looked at her and walked off but hey stuff's falling out of your bag so yeah good luck no I just I'm just like I say something nice I'm so scared she's gonna take this the wrong way she was like so upset so I'm just wondering were you sure I think about Penny and myself at this stage were you in tears a lot do you I don't think I wasn't because I was moving so fast, but I don't think anyone could have said anything to me that I would have received well.

Yeah, that's exactly what I felt yesterday.

Yes.

However, I do look back at that time where I was moving so fast and punishing myself because I went to CrossFit so much that the CrossFit lady was like you can't come more than once a day.

And I always thought she was just being like, look, this is like some money financial.

Like you can't – you're being greedy.

But that was probably one of the only people who was like I don't think you're well enough to be doing – like this is not good.

Like I was sneaking in for a second time on the way home from work.

By this stage – and this lasted years.

The girls got to like –

I think two and three or something like that around that, where I injured my back so badly that I wouldn't go.

And I went.

You injured your back?

I injured my back.

Doing CrossFit.

Doing CrossFit, yes, because it is brutal.

So everyone was like oh, you could have done, you know Reformer Pilates, but that wasn't brutal enough, because I have later reflected on it.

One of the reasons I liked going so time away from the kids.

Another reason I liked going is because of the praise you would get.

And you don't get that in parenting.

No one's going...

Do you know what, Mum?

This is the best tune of Mornay you've ever made.

Yeah.

It's actually incredible.

Like you do it, as from small kids.

It's just, you don't get.

It's a lot of noise and there's a lot of criticism and there's a lot of failure.

And then physically I was jacked.

So I was going, people would go, wow, you've got two kids.

You look amazing.

You don't look like you've got kids, which doesn't sound like a compliment.

No, I know exactly what you mean.

But when you've got two kids as a woman, you're like.

Hmm.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Oh, actually, no, they are mine.

Yes, I had them, yes, with my body, this body.

Yes, it's incredible.

And so you are constantly like I was constantly praised for getting smaller again.

And then the third thing I really liked about it and this took me a long time to realise is that CrossFit hurt and I felt like I deserved that.

Oh, man.

Which was amazing.

I didn't understand at the time.

But when you feel so much guilt from all of the things you get wrong as a parent, like I felt, I'd go to the gym and it would hurt and no one would say hey, that looks.

Maybe you don't need to do that.

You don't need to lift that much or whatever.

I'm not saying this isn't taking away from the trainers.

They were all fine.

But I would go in there with the intent to feel sore.

Oh, my gosh.

Almost like to punish yourself?

Oh, yeah, lots of self-flagellation in that.

And then when I hurt my back… really badly, I would still go.

And the trainer would be like, okay, but you're not really walking very well.

I'm not sure why you're turning up.

I said, it's fine.

It's totally fine.

And I would push myself through.

I'm astounded I don't have any permanent damage because I hurt it really badly.

I would just keep going and keep going because I was like, well, if I don't have this –

And I don't know what I would do with.

I don't know where this guilt would go if I don't feel it physically.

Yeah.

I'm nervous that it will creep into a more insidious part of me and that was terrifying.

Hearing you recount, you know the nights and what it's like.

I can't possibly know what that feels like.

Just to hear that I think paints like a picture of like oh shit, this was like really, it was really serious.

Yeah.

And I didn't know at the time because again, the first two things felt like they mattered more, like a little time away, a little bit of identity, when you're drowning in small kids constantly on you.

To have like – to have an hour of no one touching you is really intoxicating.

So I was like, well, that's one thing.

And the other thing of, you know, I look – I've never been proud of my body.

We're told – girls are told from such young age that it's such a core value of ours.

It's like currency.

To look incredible is –

And to look a certain way, it's not just like any kind of way, it's a certain way, this is great.

And we as a society will praise people for looking that.

We do it without even noticing.

Oh, you look great.

God, you've lost a lot of weight, haven't you?

We've no idea why they've lost weight or how they've lost weight or whatever, how they're feeling about that, but we are told that we're allowed to.

This is a, you don't say, well, you've put on weight.

Like we know that.

We've been trained well enough to not point that out because how awful to put on weight.

So that became something that a huge achievement of mine.

So I was like gosh people are, I've got a body that I've always wanted to have and it's never happened to me.

So awesome.

That's intoxicating as well.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I felt like a success in this area whereas at home it was nothing that felt like a success there.

Even though I could not love my babies more and they were safe and fed and well, all of these things that now I know is a successful home, at the time none of it felt like I was getting it right.

Yeah.

So, with the double CrossFit days and the busyness that you were kind of forcing on yourself, did you know what you were trying to hide from or run away from?

Yeah, I definitely do.

I feel like, if I – I don't know if I was cognizant of it at the time, but I just felt – I now know if I stopped.

I felt worried if I stopped that all of these uh statements or questions, all negative, that were just kind of nipping at my heels.

Um, if I stopped, they would hit the back of my head and then I would have to experience them, which were things like um it's not, you're not, you're doing a bad job.

Um, which I kind of or I could hear whispers of it, but not if the not if I was running.

If you feel something else, you know how, when you're trying to make yourself not laugh.

So you've got a laugh that's about to come out, and so you'll pinch your palm or you'll bite the inside of your mouth.

Think of things that are funny.

Yes, a distraction.

You just need a distraction, something, and often pain.

We'll do that.

You'll go, oh, God, that's all right.

Okay, and your brain will get tricked.

Isn't that how some people get out of like lie detectors?

Yeah, they put a pebble in their shoe and when they don't want to.

This is good to remember when you get caught for all those murders.

No, I ain't talking about.

So pain was something that I would utilise in order to not get the truth, which was the thing that I was desperately fearful of, which was you're not doing a good job and your kids aren't going to be well-rounded and other people are doing better, and everyone can see how badly you're doing at this and people are laughing at you.

People are laughing at you and they feel sorry for your kids, and Lucas probably should have found someone who was going to be a better mum to his kids and –.

Yeah.

So I was running from not only from those phrases, all those things.

But it was easy to run when I was constantly surrounded by a noise.

And the noise.

I was trying to get away from it, but at the same time the running kind of added to it.

So the noise kind of felt like...

You know a kettle that is boiling on the stove and no one's turning it off, and it felt like you know when someone's slamming the cupboards or someone's opening a key, but they've got the wrong key and you're just listening.

You're inside and you're listening to it.

You're like wrong key, dickhead.

Like obviously you've lived here for ages.

Like number them, number them, put a Band-Aid on one.

I don't know.

Work it out.

You're an adult.

Things like this.

I mean that's.

Coming from experience.

Or just like a car just idling out the front of the house, but it needs a service.

It's almost like the movie representation of someone who's overwhelmed.

Yes.

Exactly.

It felt like a montage.

It felt like a montage in a movie where someone is stressed, but that was 24-7.

So when you say this, do you mean you're feeling the equivalent of that, or you're literally hearing those?

So yeah.

It was, I'm not literally hearing it, but it's the feeling I get from those things.

And every, but noises were louder.

So when someone, like someone slam, close a cupboard door, it would shock me.

Like I would be really on edge the whole time.

It's like constant agitation.

Yes, yes.

And so, which is awful when you are feeling so annoyed that, All of the time.

And then a tiny toddler just gets in your way and you couldn't love that toddler more if you tried.

But they spill their milk in front of you.

And it's something that every toddler would do.

But it feels personal.

You're like, I told you to not put that there.

But you can't yell it.

It's a baby that you love.

You can't actually scream at the toddler.

They will take the kids away.

So you bottle it up and you let it seethe, and you let it simmer at like the bottom of your throat um, like a, like a stone, and you leave it there and as the day goes on, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

And then uh, you go to bed and don't sleep well, and in the morning you go and try and release it somehow by lifting weights.

That was every single day, and it was one day my friend text me And I was hanging out washing and I was hanging out the washing and I felt really proud of myself because I was hanging out clothes that I'd only been dirty that morning.

And I was like, I'm actually nailing this.

Like such a small moment of victory.

I was like, I wore these to the gym this morning.

I'm hanging them out.

These are going to be dry by this afternoon.

Surely I'm doing all right.

A very small moment of a win.

Yeah.

And then my friend texted me and was like, how's it going?

Do you want to hang out?

I said, oh no, I can't hang out because I've got the kids and I can't take them anywhere because they'll run around and I have to get them here.

And I've actually got the shops to do and I've got this huge list.

And she said, oh, wow, life sounds really busy.

And I wrote back and I didn't know there was no filter on this text.

I just wrote back and I said, I hate my life.

And she wrote back, I didn't even, I wasn't written as a joke.

It just was truly written really matter-of-factly.

And she wrote back and said, dude, that's not great.

I said, doesn't everyone hate their life?

And she said, no, mate, heaps of people don't hate their life.

I think there's something wrong.

And that was like, oh, okay, I've stuffed this as well.

I need to fix something.

And that became another noise that I would run from.

Like this is all self-inflicted, Bron.

Is that the feeling of I hate my life?

Is that something you'd ever experienced or thought about your life before kids?

I don't think so.

No, because there was reprieve.

There was always a moment, a week, a day, a night, an hour of reprieve, even when things were hard in different points in my life.

It wasn't until I had kids where there was literally no break.

I remember one night really late at night, like 11 pm, and it was screaming Olive when she was a newborn and it dawning on me that there was no day off.

Yeah, I have a strong memory of that.

I was like, oh, this is forever.

Even the worst job in the world, you get a day off.

Yeah.

I remember the first week we had our – I think on a Tuesday.

I remember Fada going, oh, my God, thank God it's the weekend.

And then going, oh, no, hang on.

He doesn't know that.

He didn't give a shit what day.

Nothing's going to change tomorrow.

Where's his little calendar?

All right, Dad, you've been gone for a while.

You take ten.

Take two days.

That's the weekend.

So, Bron, it sounds like things were really difficult.

What happened next?

I was back at work by this stage.

I was back teaching three days a week.

And with teaching, because it's a female-dominated industry And just how the society has worked.

A lot of people who have kids in teaching.

They become the main domestic person at home because they were like oh, you've got 12 weeks off or 10 weeks off a year.

And you know some people think that school goes from nine to three and then all this free time afterwards.

And so you're going to be in charge of the kid.

That's obviously.

And also a lot of couples, the teacher in the couple is the lower paid person.

And so they're like, well, obviously you're going to have all this.

And all of those things happen in my situation.

Lucas earned more than me.

I had the school holidays.

But it's not nine till three.

It's much more than that, especially I was doing year 11 and year 12 English.

There was so much marking.

So I had the kids, I had drop-offs pick-ups, and I had teaching, and so I was kind of moving at a million miles an hour at school and moving a million miles an hour at home, and then moving even faster at the gym.

So everything was fast and I was not sleeping very well because I was like again, what's the point of going to sleep?

They're just going to wake up any second anyway.

I got to the point where I got to the park, both girls were crying, because Olive wanted me to push her on the swing and Edie, the newborn, I needed to push her in the pram over tan bark to get her to sleep.

This is the weirdest thing about newborns is like the more you shake them, the easier they go.

Like they won't just go to sleep.

What an awful way to go to sleep.

They're so stupid.

I guess that's what they're used to, isn't it?

Yeah.

It's like, oh, wow, this is relaxing.

My four-year-old son.

He still has to go – he goes to sleep by throwing his head from side to side on the pillow.

That's how he goes to sleep.

Wild, wild.

Babies are so stupid.

So to get Edie to go to sleep, I'd have to go over Tambark as fast as I could and shake it, and then she'd go to sleep.

But Olive would be crying because she's on the swing.

She's only one.

She doesn't understand.

I can't explain to her.

Your baby sister that you care about very little, the one that's uprooted your life.

I need to get her to sleep.

So if you could just be patient, you know, give him about, I don't know, five minutes, mate.

You've got a watch on you?

No, no watch.

Okay, don't make him that small.

I guess if you could.

So I just had to push Olive as hard as I could on the swing and then run over to Edie in the pram and push her over the tambourine, and then Olive's swing would slowly come to a stop and then she'd scream again.

And then I'd have to run over and push her again.

I had my headphones on and I was listening to just all of my favourite songs and I got to my song, Tina Arena's Chains, which is a banger like absolutely life-changing for me.

Underrated.

And when I heard it at the park with two babies screaming, I was like a whole, it makes sense now.

Like this song, actually the song that I've loved and cherished for so long.

It genuinely makes sense now, because I am in chains.

And I would be, so I started singing it.

I turned it up as loud as I could to like block out their crying, because it doesn't matter whether I could hear it or not.

I knew it was happening.

I turned it up as loud as I could.

And then I could still hear them.

So I started singing it, and I was singing it at the top of my lungs, whilst pushing one baby and then running over and swinging another and then running back, and I was like screaming it to the point where it hurt.

And people were walking through this park like to go to work.

Like people were trickling through.

And just to remind people of the lyrics, it is I'm in chains, isn't it?

Yeah, baby, baby, I'm in chains.

I'm in chains, oh God.

Yeah, two babies.

And I never thought this would happen to me.

You know, I never thought this is where I'd be.

I'm in chains.

I was like, she's singing directly to me.

I don't know how she knew that I would need this song, but I was like holy hell, this all makes sense.

And people were going to work and kind of looking at me, but it would have been a similar thing that you experience.

You're like, do I go over and see if that lady's okay?

Because she obviously isn't.

Like it would have been paradise if someone came over and said, can I just push?

I'll just push this one on the swing just for like a couple of minutes.

But in saying that, I know that if someone came over and said, I'd go, no way.

No, I can do this.

Women have had two babies.

My mum had five.

I was like, I can do this, surely.

So I needed help in that specific moment, but there's no way I would have accepted it.

But, upon reflection, I would have loved just the memory just the memory would have helped of someone going.

Well, do you want me to do harmony?

I don't know.

Like anything would have helped in that moment.

Just at this point in your life were there – because I have this picture of you soldiering on like everything's fine.

Was your body giving you any – or was your – mentally or physically?

Were your body giving you any warning signs that potentially you're not – was anything happening to you?

I remember getting obviously much smaller because it was just constant moving.

But that's praised.

But no, I didn't know.

I thought it was hard and mentally I was struggling, but I thought that was normal.

It was normal because it was hard.

I don't know how anyone would be like, this is easy.

I felt like my sister, my older sister is a very, very excellent mum.

She's got four kids and it seemed easy for her.

So I was like well, if I'm just like we said, like how are the two kids so different?

My sister and I, We've got the same parents, you guys.

Do you have a favourite?

To be honest, I'm ashamed to say it, but I haven't spoken to your sister in a long time.

In 42 years.

Yeah, 42 years, yeah.

I should call.

So I couldn't understand how we were experiencing motherhood so differently.

So I was like, oh, I'll just keep pushing until it's easy.

I'll just keep pushing until I look like that.

Yeah.

And then it wasn't until my friend Claire, who I've known since high school, she said to me I reckon you could just pop to the – I reckon you're sleeping very well.

I reckon you could just pop to the doctor and just let her know that you're not sleeping well and it's a lot and she might be – I reckon she might be able to help you.

And I was like, what?

What's she going to do?

I hate going to the doctor.

I was like oh my God this feels – ridiculous, because I don't have a temperature, I don't have a rash.

I was like, this feels silly.

This feels embarrassing.

So I remember almost canceling.

And just go in and just say it and all she's going to say is, yeah, motherhood's hard.

What do you want?

And then I'll have a doctor saying it and then I'll be able to say that to people.

I've got medical professional backing up.

Exactly what I've been saying is, of course, this is hard.

Of course, it looks like I'm having a hard time because it's fucking hard.

And the doctor lady said it.

I said it.

Let's leave it.

Let's just let me have a hard time, okay?

And I went to the doctor and I expected it to be really quick.

I sat down.

I was like, okay, I'm not really sure why I'm here.

I'm just like not sleeping very well.

I've got two kids.

I had them really close together.

They're three and four now.

She said, okay, so you've got two kids.

All right.

And she was really calm and I was moving at the speed of light.

Quickly, let's go.

I've got to clean my house.

It's spotless.

Quickly.

Okay.

And she said, okay, yep, yep, yep.

I just want to know you've got kids, you've got this and everything's normal.

Your obs are fine.

But I just wanted to know do you think that you are a good mother?

Oh.

And that just ripped the lid off my biggest fear.

Yeah.

And I'd never like that obviously was like a screaming thought for ever since Olive was born.

For the past four years was a screaming thought, but I'd never said it out loud or acknowledged it fully.

And I'd never had anyone ask me that because what a question.

Hmm.

And I was just stunned for all of – everything was moving so fast and then it all just like came to this crashing halt with this one question from a woman I'd never met before but knew exactly what was happening.

And she –

I said, oh, you know, it's hard.

She said, yeah, it looks hard.

It's really hard.

You're experiencing something really hard, but do you think you're a good mother?

And I said, no.

No, I've tried really hard to be one.

But no, I don't reckon I am.

And she said well, I'm here to tell you that you are, but you're going through something harder than it needs to be because you've got postnatal anxiety and it's very clear to me and you don't have to – it doesn't have to be this hard.

And –

After that, it's a bit of a blur, but she prescribed me some medicine and I went home and I took it.

And within days, my life had changed.

I was like, oh, my God.

I could breathe.

I felt – because the rock that had been sitting on my chest for the past four years had kind of – it hadn't gone completely, but it had lightened a bit and –

Everything wasn't as noisy.

So when my anxiety felt like the volume on life was at full, like turned up completely, the lights felt too bright.

Like every...

And like I could hear people chewing in another room.

I could hear, like I could feel light.

Everything was.

It was like the top layer of my skin had been taken off and that's just.

I was like well, this is just how I live my life now.

Like.

This is the noise I'm supposed to hear and the sounds that are getting under my skin and everything hurts.

This is my lot in life.

And it's supposed to hurt.

It's similar to CrossFit.

It's supposed to feel this bad because I've fucked up that many things, fucked up so many things that I'm supposed to not fuck up, because I went in stupidly thinking I was going to be good at it.

And then it started to become easier.

Yeah.

I just feel like it's worth pausing for a moment on that question that the doctor asked you, because I feel like a lot of mums or parents listening right now are probably still reflecting on that very question and are feeling like I'd probably need someone to ask me that.

What was it in that moment that just stopped you in your tracks?

Because I had to finally answer it.

There was no one else in the room.

It wasn't like a friend was going to chime in going.

No, you're amazing, because I did not know where she was going with it.

She could have said at the end and that's how bad a darker space I was in her going because you're not.

Because what I'm saying is you're not and you actually need and I'm going to be calling you know child services because it looks like you know you're prioritising the gym.

Look at your guns.

I'll bring it up again.

Look at your guns.

They're incredible.

And so when she said you are a good mum, did you, in your heart, did you believe her?

Ah, great question.

No.

But it felt like – but it felt different coming from her than it would have done my friends or my family.

Yeah.

Because she – well, she didn't matter to her.

I wasn't her friend.

She'd just get on with it.

She was going to tend to someone else after me, someone's rash or whatever and she'd never think about me, ever again.

But when she said it I was like, oh this – it hit differently because.

But I didn't necessarily believe her.

But I needed to hear it because it was the scariest thing, the other option.

And then the medication helped so much.

And everything seemed to get a bit better.

I stopped going to CrossFit.

Not immediately, but eventually I stopped going to CrossFit.

I stopped feeling.

Everything slowed down.

The lights dimmed.

The sound went down.

Life started to feel good again.

And I was like, oh, okay, yeah, good.

I'm enjoying this.

I'm finally enjoying being a mum.

Okay, yeah, I got this.

It's easy.

So you were enjoying it then?

Yeah.

Wow.

And then COVID happened.

And I'd just taken long service leave from teaching because I'd started stand-up.

So this is obviously 2020.

Yep.

So how old was Olive?

So Olive would now be five.

So she'd just done prep.

Yep.

And I was like, okay.

A lot of time at home with the kids.

This will be nice.

And I loved it.

I know that a lot of people had some pretty tough times during COVID.

Lockdown wasn't nice for a lot of people.

For me and my family, it was really nice because we had no option of rushing.

There was no running.

There was no this.

It was really slow and it was time.

And I had a huge backlog of forgiveness and slow times with my kids to try to kind of sink into.

And so I was really loving it to the point where I said to Lucas, we could have one more.

We could have one more baby.

And I didn't expect it.

He was like, yeah, great, let's do it.

Let's have another baby.

And I have a joke in my comedy where I say I thought two was plenty.

I thought two was heaps.

Two was enough.

We thought two was going to be exactly what we needed.

Two was enough.

And then we had our son, lovely little boy.

His name's Ari.

He's four now.

When we had him.

We realised two was enough actually.

Two was actually plenty and we've stuffed it.

But obviously it's a joke.

But we had him.

We moved to Brisbane.

We thought it would be nice to have lots of family around.

We thought what is it like to have a baby with family around?

Because we've never – Lucas' family is in Brisbane.

My family is in Canberra.

We've done everything in Melbourne.

And I thought if I'd never asked for help with the girls – if there's help just right there with family, great.

I could potentially enjoy having a baby.

I've never experienced that.

So we went to Brisbane and we had him.

And during that pregnancy, I remember being terrified that the noise would come back.

And I remember saying to Lucas, I think I'm going to go mad again.

When you say the noise, you mean the crying and the?

No, the crying, I meant the noise of like hearing lights and hearing the kettle.

Extreme sensitivity.

Yes.

So the chaos, it was just – the volume was going to go right up again and I'd be able to feel –

Like the sun would burn my skin on a 20-degree day, you know.

I was nervous that that was going to come back, the anxiety was going to come back.

So I said to Lucas I'm actually terrified, I'm going to go mad again, because that's what it felt like.

I felt mad.

And he said, no, we know all the flags.

As soon as something feels like that, we know medicine helped.

We'll just do that.

What was the medicine?

Lexapro.

Oh, Lexapro, okay.

It was an antidepressant.

Yeah.

And I said, okay, all right, all right, you're confident.

I'll be confident as well.

And at the 20-week scan with Ari, the sonographer said, oh, his head's quite huge.

I was like, thought it was funny.

I was like, yeah, it's a big head.

I think that's big for heads in my family.

That's fine.

They said, okay, we'll just keep an eye on it.

And then, at like 26 weeks or something, I did another one and they were like yeah, his head's growing pretty quickly, but probably too quickly.

I just didn't phase me, because the only thing that I was worried about was was the anxiety coming back.

I was like, he's fine.

Babies are always fine.

Like they are so resilient and I make babies that make some cry and some don't, but they're always fine.

They're healthy.

They're fine.

And I didn't tell Luke.

I said, oh, his head's big, but they're not worried.

I'm not worried.

And he's like, okay.

And he's Polish.

He loves where it's his favourite pastime.

And so then the 34-week one, they were like, okay, so his head's measuring at 42 weeks old.

Like he's really big and his body's normal.

And I was like, okay, well, what does that mean?

They said, we're just going to do a –

We got to do like an MRI.

So whilst I was pregnant with him, I had to do a test.

And they were like, look, there's some fluid on the brain.

We don't know what it is.

We just have to wait for him to be born and to see.

And I got back from that appointment.

I said, everything's fine.

They said it's totally fine because I did not need his worry because that would make me stress.

And I knew that the only thing for me to be worried about was the noise coming back.

Now, Ari was born.

I had to induce him to – it was two weeks early because his head was so big.

I don't know why they didn't do a cesarean.

I'm not criticising them.

I've never been a midwife.

I'm not an obstetrician.

I don't understand.

It's really easy to be like.

Well, I don't know why we insisted on a natural birth, whatever anyone wants to call it, but they did and he was born.

It was horrific labour.

He was born –

And I just wanted to go home.

It was COVID, so no visitors were allowed.

I wanted to introduce my girls to their new brother.

So within like, I don't know, six or seven hours of him being born, I was home.

I was like, bye, I don't want to be here.

Bye.

Is that fast?

That's fast, yes.

Yeah, some people, like usually it's one night.

You stay at least a night.

You stay at least 24 hours.

But I was like, I need to get out of here.

I felt like I just had an awful time.

So I get home with him and everything's great.

I'm like, I'm not pregnant anymore.

There's no noise.

He's fine.

He's sleeping.

The girls are happy.

I've done it.

So he was healthy when he was born?

They're like, yeah, he seems fine.

Yep.

I was like, well, we've done it.

We've nailed it.

Finally.

And I was so up myself about it.

I was like, I've had three kids and this is the one.

There's family.

I've worked it out.

It did take me three humans to work it out.

I had to get through a lot to get there, but I was like, I've solved the riddle.

And then on day three, he didn't wake up.

He wouldn't wake up.

And I was like, oh, I don't know.

And my mum was there.

Mum was visiting and my mum used to be a midwife and she's had five kids herself and she never panics about anything.

When I was a kid, when I was 10, I broke my wrist.

We didn't go to the hospital for like a week and a half.

Mum's like, you'll be fine.

It's a bone.

No big deal.

So when he was not...

When he wasn't moving, I said, Mum, look, this feels wrong.

And she, like, opened – like, lifted up one of his eyelids and his eye rolled back.

Oh, my God.

And she said, you just need to go to the hospital right now.

And I was like – and Lucas goes, I've just got one work call –

No, because I'd never shown him that there could have been something wrong.

He was like, what do you mean?

And so we rushed to the hospital and it was COVID time.

This was in Brisbane, COVID time.

And there was a security guard at the door and Lucas dropped me at the emergency and I got out of the car.

And I was in such a state that I couldn't talk to the security guard.

I was like, is it an emergency?

Like they were just like getting paid, you know, security guard wages.

He nor they, and they weren't trained for anything.

But I was like, move.

I walked in at the triage.

There was a family in front of me who were just kind of like slowly saying, you know, like oh, she's got this rash and we're not really sure what it is.

And I was like, get out of the way.

And finally I got to the triage nurse and she just wasn't taking it as seriously as I needed her to.

She was like, so can I see his Medicare card?

And I was like, he doesn't have one.

He's three days old.

And she's like, okay, all right, calm down.

All right, we're all trying to get somewhere.

And she goes, I've just got a couple more questions.

But by that stage I can't remember what I was saying or how I was sounding, but I must have escalated quite a bit.

And she said, I've got one more question and then I'll get the doctor, okay?

And I was like, it better be fucking good.

And she goes, what religion is he?

And I almost burnt that fucking hospital to the ground.

I was like, what?

And then a doctor heard what was happening.

She came out and was like, come through.

It's okay, come through, come through.

And then she said, now what's going on here?

And she was lifting his arms and it was just flopping back down and she was trying to keep me calm but I could not talk.

I couldn't talk because I was like, it's happened.

Like I've officially fucked it.

Like all of the almost fucked bits I've done, this one, I've officially ruined it.

And she said no, she was trying to keep me calm.

And another doctor came over, and then another doctor came over, and then someone hit a button and then it was just a full

I could hear Lucas at the door arguing with the security guard to let him in, because she was saying no, there's only one parent allowed.

But I needed him to talk for me because I couldn't, none of the words were coming out.

It was like pulling, you know, pulling like stones out of thick mud.

Great description.

I was like I just need.

And when he eventually came in, they were asking him questions but he didn't know the answer to them because I'd never.

I hadn't let him in because I thought that anything that had gone wrong or that would go wrong was going to be my fault because I would have done something wrong in the pregnancy.

So I didn't want to tell him that I'd stuffed it because it was his child.

So I tried to just compartmentalise all of it and I got to the point and hopefully I'd get away with it.

And up until the third day I thought I had got away with it, and then it all fell apart and no one could say oh, you know, there was fluid on his brain, because Lucas didn't know there was fluid on his brain.

So had you told the doctors that at that point there was fluid on his brain?

Eventually I said, he said it's big.

There were extra scans.

I can't remember if I said there were fluids.

But one of the doctors went, right, okay, yep, sure.

And they were jamming like glucose into his mouth, like violently into his mouth, because obviously it was an emergency.

He had no blood sugar levels, nil.

And then two doctors came over to talk to me and they were like now have you –, have you ever had a cold sore?

And I was like, well, yeah, I've had it.

And they were like, oh, okay.

And then they were like screaming something back, like the mother's had a cold sore, because you know you kiss newborn babies.

If you've got a cold sore, it can kill them.

But I was like, but I haven't had one.

I don't have one.

I didn't have one.

I never knew that.

Didn't you?

Oh, it's horrific, horrific.

So I was like, no, I haven't.

And they were like, did you kiss him on his face?

I was like, you've kissed him on his face heaps, like past three days, it's all I've done.

And then she said, okay, well, all right, and did you ever drink alcohol?

And I was like oh, I did have a glass of wine every now and then, but like I just thought that that was –.

Like that was okay.

Like I've been French ladies do it all the time.

And she was like, did you ever take drugs?

I was like, no drugs.

I haven't taken any drugs.

And I'm like, yes, but oh, there was a couple of glasses of wine along the way.

So everything, and she has had a cold, so everything was all my fault.

So I was like, okay.

All right.

Yep.

All right.

And they're like, and was it a cesarean or a natural birth?

I was a natural birth.

And they were like, oh.

It would have been better if it was a cesarean.

So I was like fuck, I should have pushed for it to be a cesarean, because the birth was so traumatic for him, because his head was so enormous.

Anyway, they took him into this room and they said, we're going to give him a spinal tap.

You won't want to be here for this because he will scream.

And I was like, oh no no, I really want to hear that, because I haven't heard him make any sounds for hours now.

And they said, no, just go.

And they said to Lucas, you just have to get around here.

And they took me, he took me to this cafeteria, which was like a ghost town because it was COVID.

No one was there.

And I sat, there was a few like kind of lost people kind of wandering around.

The lights were too bright.

And I sat down and Lucas said, do you want to, I'm going to get coffee.

Do you want a coffee?

And I said, no, because I'm breastfeeding.

And then I was like, oh, fuck, am I?

I don't know if I am anymore.

And he said, just have whatever you want, Bron.

Who cares?

Like just have whatever you want.

So I just have a tea just in case.

He gave me a peppermint tea and I poured it and I took a big sip straight away and it burnt all of the skin inside of my mouth.

But I was like, I knew you deserved that.

And I said – Lucas was like, we're in the right place.

He's going to – like they're fixing him right now.

They'll work it out.

Like I can see you're really emotional, but we've done all the right things.

Sorry.

And he said – This is like the hardest thing to talk about.

It's the hardest thing.

Because this is where –

And you're doing an unbelievable job.

Oh, thanks.

Because this is where, like, the girls – like, when I was anxious, this was awful.

But this part of – this week of my life that I'm about to talk about was, hands down, the worst week of my entire life.

So –

Lucas says to me and probably this moment in the hospital with Lucas in this cafeteria was maybe the most awful moment of me, worst version of me I've ever seen.

It took me by surprise.

He said, we're going to be fine.

And I said, I don't think it is going to be fine, Lucas.

I think there's something really wrong with him.

And he said, okay.

It's okay.

All right.

We're going to work it out.

And I was annoyed at him for not understanding the gravity of it.

I said, Lucas, he's going to be really disabled.

I can tell.

He's either going to die or he's going to be disabled.

And he said, okay, and we'll work with that.

And I said, I don't want to.

And he goes, then I will.

He goes, you look after the girls and I'll look after Ari.

Okay.

And we'll be fine.

And I felt like I had – firstly, I felt like I'd ruined my girls' lives.

I was like, well, that's it.

We're never going to have a holiday.

We're going to have a ramp at the front of the house.

We're not going to be – I'm not going to be able to work ever.

Like they'll – I've ruined it.

Everything, I've played with fire.

I had two healthy kids and I went in again.

I was greedy enough to think I was going to be lucky enough to have three healthy kids.

Like who the fuck did I think I was going to get three healthy kids?

And I had, I was like, of course I've stuffed it.

And not only did I have this moment of like I've ruined their lives, but I also admitted that I regretted having him.

And Lucas was like, you just calm down because we're going to be fine.

And then I went back into the room and Ari, I just prayed that he was screaming like they said he would.

I was praying as much pain as he needed to be and I just needed to hear it.

I went back in and he was not making a sound and one of the nurses, the doctors said I reckon it's his brain.

I was like right okay, and then she clocked off and all the doctors kind of clocked off and they put me in a room and Lucas had to go home because it was Easter.

And What do you mean?

Clocked off?

They just were like, all right, well, we've all got, it's like the nurses will look after you now.

There's nothing we can do.

We just have to wait.

Oh, my God.

And I was like, there are more tests.

And they said, well, all the tests, all the things are all closed because it's Easter weekend.

So we have to wait for Monday.

And it was Friday.

What the hell?

I don't understand how it works.

I was like, can you just turn on the machines?

Just turn on the machines or take us to a hospital where the machines are on.

And they were like, we've just already kind of put you in.

We've admitted you here.

We'll wait for Monday.

He might, hopefully some change happens.

And there's been no change in him?

No change.

What the hell?

And I felt crazy.

I felt mad again because I was like, can we not see that he's not moving?

And they were like, yeah.

And all I kept hearing was this doctor who said, we think it's his brain.

And I was like, so what does that look like?

Is he really disabled?

Is he a little bit disabled?

Is he temporarily unwell?

What is my life right now?

What is my life?

What is my girl's life?

Give me some answers.

Anything.

Yeah.

And then they all left and Lucas had to leave as well because he had to go to look after the girls.

And I was in this room, a silent room with a sleeping baby that did not like even wriggle.

He had a nose tube, a tube in his nose because he couldn't feed anymore.

Like he wasn't swallowing.

And so I was just sat there, and I had to sit there for a week with no –.

People come in twice a day to say look, there's no results yet.

We don't know why he's asleep.

And then Lucas would visit sometimes.

And then one –

Nurse came in and all, I didn't want anyone, I didn't know what I wanted.

Like I knew that I didn't want someone to come in and go, it's fine.

Like this is, like this looks hard, but you're okay.

Like you're fine.

You got two healthy guys.

I didn't want a pep talk.

I wanted a hard, scary story with success at the end.

So a nurse came in and she tried to offer that to me and I was so excited.

So she said, oh, you've got a lovely little boy.

He's nice.

And I was like yeah, and that annoyed me as well, because I was like there's something wrong with him um, and I said, what have you got a kid?

And she said, yeah, I've got a little boy and he's lovely.

And I can, I know what you're going through.

And that's, I was like, oh, finally, what, you know, this, you've seen this, what, what do you mean?

Like, you've gone through this, please tell me this has happened to you.

And it's fine.

She goes off, you know, my son, we were so excited when he was born.

And then we had some hardships and I was like, yeah, so what do you mean?

And she said, well, he's autistic.

And I was like, okay.

Did he go to sleep for a week and then wake up?

And she was like, no, no, no.

He's really obsessed with history though.

Like he knows everything about World War II.

I was like, that sounds fucking amazing.

That sounds incredible.

You've got to keep that, everything about World War II.

And he's awake.

This isn't the same.

Because when I finished teaching, I went into tutoring and I just tutored autistic kids and that was all I did.

And they were the most rewarding kids for me to work with.

So when she was like I understand, this is the same, we're the same, I was like she was speaking Spanish to me.

I was like, no, we can't, we're never going to find a middle ground here right now.

I needed someone to come in and say, my son went to sleep.

And when he woke up, this is what he looked like because I had no idea what my future looked like.

I had no idea what his future looked like.

I didn't know if he had a future.

I didn't know what my girl's future looked like.

I didn't know anything.

And when she came in and said, I've got a little clue, and it was nothing, I was furious.

As soon as she told me that her son was autistic and that was it I was like I think you need to get the fuck out of here.

So I became angrier and angrier and angrier.

The week went on forever and he still didn't move and he still didn't budge.

And then finally a nurse said, I think I've just seen him have a seizure.

And I was like, great, because that's something.

We've got another clue here.

And she was like, oh, I didn't think that was going to be your reaction.

I was like, no, we've got – like can we say – like he's seizing.

Like can we move things along?

And so we were transferred to a different hospital.

This was 5 p.m.

You'll go – the paramedics are going to come.

They're going to transfer you to a bigger hospital.

I was like, yes, finally.

And they said, so just relax, order some dinner, and I'm not sure when they're coming.

I said, yeah, I'm fine.

I'll just chill out.

I'll watch Friends.

As they've said this, I'm packing my bag.

Yeah, they're coming?

Okay.

But we don't know when they're coming, but they'll be – I said well, they're going to come soon because there's a newborn that's just had a seizure, so –.

Obviously, they're going to be here any minute.

I'm packing all my things.

And then I sit.

I have my socks and shoes and I'm sitting on the bed just staring at the door with my son in this little crib next to me.

And she said, look, I reckon you just take your shoes off.

Just relax.

They'll be here any second.

It's 5 p.m.

And 7 p.m. comes and the nurse comes in.

Bron, I really reckon you should just take your shoes off.

No, no way.

Okay.

And 10, 11, 12, 1, 2, nurse comes in.

She's like, Ron, I'm really, you just look really unwell.

Can you just lie?

I said, I'm fine.

Can everyone stop worrying about me?

That made me angry.

When anyone put any of the focus on me, I was like, why are you looking at me?

Hmm.

Like I'm at fault here.

Like it's like asking the person who's just like hurt everyone, are you all right now?

Your fist's all right, mate?

They look bleeding.

Are you okay?

I was like, can everyone just stop looking at me and look at my son and just like leave it there?

Five in the morning comes.

I still haven't moved from my bed.

I haven't eaten anything.

I'm just sitting there.

And then the paramedics finally walk in at six and they're like, oh, you're up early.

You've already got your shoes on.

I said, yeah, we're going to, can we go now?

And they're looking at him.

And there's these two lovely young paramedics, you know, look like they're from the country, like have that kind of like blonde, like blindingly white teeth, just that kind of like ochre energy about them, like everything's going to be great.

On every other day of the year, of my life, I would have loved these two girls.

But their energy was everything I didn't want.

I know exactly what you're saying.

And they had in-jokes with the nurses, like, yeah, because Ari was the last patient for them.

So they were like, they were saying, nurses, this is like, oh, God, we had a massive night.

Oh, God, it's been crazy out there.

All right, okay.

And they're going, here he is.

Oh, this little fella, we've been waiting to meet him all shift.

Nice.

And I was like, okay.

And they're going, he's so cute.

Oh, he's lovely.

He's like limp lying there, like his head's like tilted.

I'm like, just can we?

Shut up.

Yeah.

Shut up.

You must have just felt like you're just so misunderstood.

It's like no one's actually listening, like not listening to you, but it's just like so unseen.

Yeah.

Or something.

You feel mad.

Yeah.

I felt mad.

I felt like gaslit the whole time.

I was like, this is sure.

I've never seen a baby go to sleep for like this amount of time.

And if you didn't think it was serious, you'd send me home.

But you know, it's serious enough for me to be here, but you're not like no one's ever coming in.

He's waiting for him to wake up.

We get into this uh, the ambulance, and then the the Paramedics are like just chirpy, like chirping away at each other like two fun time, good time school girls.

Like, oh, my God, do you see that guy?

Oh, my God, the valley was crazy last night.

And one kept going, I've got a nephew.

Yeah, he's cute.

He's not as cute as your boy though.

And I was like, this is so patronising.

He's just ignoring that he's completely out.

I bet your nephew wakes up.

So I just was in silence.

I was going through – there's no sirens.

Nothing felt like anything was an emergency to anyone.

And I'm at the lights in this ambulance with my tiny – son that would not move, and I'm looking at the cars next to me and I'm thinking God, I wonder how many times I've pulled up at the lights next to an ambulance with no lights on and known that there was like a broken baby and a devastated mum just sitting just centimetres away from me.

And the paramedic goes, oh.

Oh, you know, like, sorry, we would have come earlier, but it was crazy in the valley.

You know, Fortitude Valley last night was just animals, animals.

And I was like, oh, so wait, hold on a sec.

You guys, their priority was these drunken idiots.

Yes.

Like I can't make any sense of it.

But my rage was like it was useless.

It was a cul-de-sac.

I was like it just kept coming back to me.

Like it would go a little bit out and come back to me.

And I'm like, why didn't you push harder?

Why didn't you walk in and say, no, I need an ambulance right now?

Why did you go to the wrong hospital to begin with, Bron?

You've gone to the wrong one.

Why didn't you assist on a cesarean?

Why didn't you tell Lucas that there was things?

It was a cul-de-sac of rage and blame.

It would always come back to me.

And then we get to this hospital and I'm thinking, great things are going to happen.

Things are going to change.

I walk into my room and I'm sharing with two other people and I think oh, this is fucked.

I don't want to sit with them and they're going to feel sorry for me and I don't want their pity.

But I look over and there was a baby, a four-month-old little girl, who'd had a brain tumour so huge and she had a huge scar down her head.

And I was like, oh, my God, he doesn't have a brain tumour.

That poor little baby.

And then I noticed another baby, this little boy who was born without a really important part of his body.

And I was like, oh, it's heat.

And the dad was like, oh, we've been here for six months and we'll work it out.

And I was like, oh, okay.

Perspective is finally happening after a week of being isolated and thinking oh, no one's ever gone through something so hard.

I was finally given some perspective.

Like, no, no, it could be really hard.

You could have, you know, all of these things.

But still no answers were coming back.

And then eventually, after I think it was eight days of him being completely still, finally he started to stir a little and then feed a little.

And then the doctors were like, yeah, we honestly cannot find what it is.

So you can go home.

What?

Yeah.

I was like, okay.

Yeah, and one of the scans shows he's got bleeding on his brain but it seems to have stopped and we think it's a result of the birth and obviously should have had a caesarean.

I'm like, oh, it's my fault.

So they're like okay, all right, you can go home and just let us know if he has another one of those episodes.

And so we go home and we are like, we did it.

And all of these horrific possibilities of him dying were just, I was like, okay, we get to go home.

I get home.

The girls are excited to see him.

They're like, oh, my God, he's back.

They have no idea what we've just gone through.

They think it's normal for a baby to go back to the hospital for a week.

So we get home and I'm like, okay, we've done it.

We almost lost and we've won again.

We're okay.

We've just cheated God.

We don't know what it was.

We've just cheated.

And I made up to a million deals with the devil when I was in there with so much in the hospital.

Like if you get us out of here and he wakes up, I will get off social media.

If you make him wake up.

I will play hide and seek with the kids every day.

There's so many deals with the devil.

And so when I got home, I was like, oh, this is so great.

One of the deals worked.

Which one was it?

Like what am I supposed to do?

I'm not getting off social media.

That's fun.

I love it on there.

And hide and seek, you can forget about it.

That's boring.

Like renegotiate.

I know.

So surely –

Surely I'm going to be the happiest woman alive if I've got this close to it being awful and it didn't happen.

Then over a few days and I start to like not wanting to leave the house very much.

I'm like well, if I leave you might have an episode and I'll just be here and I'm just constantly watching him and I never slept because I didn't want in case he I would be poking him and making sure that he was still, you know, moving and stuff.

But I was like, well, every mum would do that.

Every parent would just be like, well, if that was awful, I'm going to make sure it's okay.

So everything that I was doing, I was like, this is just normal part of it.

Everything's great.

And then after a few weeks, I wasn't leaving the house at all and I was constantly waiting for the noise to come back.

I was waiting for the lights to be too bright.

I was waiting for the kettle to be too noisy.

I was waiting for everyone to slam the doors too much.

I was waiting for the madness to unfold again.

But it just didn't and everything seemed quite dull.

I remember not being able to put him down. and feeling awful that I ever wanted to.

I was like, this is what you wanted, Bron.

You wanted to be home.

You wanted to have him here.

You wanted him to be awake.

You wanted him to stir if he was asleep.

These are the things you want.

How would you put him down?

What are you talking about?

So I'd just carry him and constantly be like, oh God, you're so lucky, you're so lucky, you're so lucky.

And then it started.

The wheels kind of fell off and I noticed when I noticed this had happened was when I was sitting in my backyard.

It was this gorgeous lush green backyard in Brisbane and looking up at this jacaranda tree and all the purple flowers were everywhere and the sun was coming through the leaves and it was just stunning and I was holding my healthy baby boy and the sun was so warm and I remember thinking like

This should feel good and it doesn't.

Like I don't, there's nothing wrong and I feel sick to my stomach.

Like it just didn't add up.

And I remember Lucas coming out in the afternoon.

I was there.

He goes, are you all right?

I was like, I don't know, actually.

Nothing felt lovely.

Like even the girls' laughs, which I love to death, their laughs, even they felt different.

They sounded different.

Everything felt like it was kind of underwater or coming through a wall or something.

And was there a fear of were you on like watch with Ari just waiting for something to happen again?

Yeah.

Yeah, like it was kind of like, I wouldn't put him down.

So I even slept with holding him.

Mm-hmm.

So Lucas was like, well, he's got a doctor's appointment.

Do you want me to take him?

I was like, no, no, I'll take him because I haven't let him in on all of these things.

He doesn't know what he's looking for.

I just didn't trust anyone else with him.

So I was like, I'll take him.

So I have to take him to the GP and she would measure his head.

The GP in Brisbane who I truly owe my life to, who at the time annoyed me so much, went in and she'd measure his head and she'd go.

And how are you?

I'm like, don't ask me that.

I'm fine.

I've had three kids and they're all alive.

I'm literally the luckiest woman in the whole world.

So there was no moment of, oh, I've been in this situation before where a doctor has managed to-

No, I didn't.

Could not.

I still didn't trust anyone.

Doctors, if they ask me a question, I feel like it's dreadful.

When a doctor asks me a question, even though I'm going there, I'm like, oh, I'm feeling unwell.

And they're like, oh, how long have you had the cough for?

I'm like, what, are we married?

Don't know.

It's none of your business.

What do you mean?

So when she was like, so how are you?

I said, yeah, I'm fine.

And I would really pull back.

And she read that correctly and didn't ask any more questions and she would check in.

She'd say, okay, well, cool.

Yep, yep, yep.

So I reckon...

Ari's head is pretty good, but I reckon I want to measure it again tomorrow.

So if you could come back tomorrow.

I was like, oh, my God, I have to come back again.

She was like, well, he's gone through a lot and, you know, you want to do the right thing.

I was like, yes, okay, fine, I'll come back tomorrow.

So I went back the next day and she'd measure his head and she said, how are you today?

And I would, again, I'm fine.

I don't know.

Like everything's fine.

The noise isn't there.

I'm fine.

She said, I'm just, I'm wondering what, like some tablet, like if we could do some medicine.

I know you said Lexapro was awful to come off.

The withdrawals were awful, but we could try something else.

And I said, I don't know what you're worried about.

I'm fine.

And then she said, well, that's okay.

Well, good.

It's good to see you're fine.

I'm just going to have to measure his head again tomorrow.

And I was like, oh, my God, this woman is obsessed with his head.

For God's sake.

So I came back the next day.

She measured his head and she was like yeah well, it's the same as it was yesterday.

I was like, how much could it grow?

She said all right, so I've just talked to a couple of specialists and she was so delicate about it.

And she said I just think that there's a medicine that I reckon you would really benefit from, because I just think that you've been through a lot and I think that this medicine might help a little bit.

And then it dawned on me that all of these appointments that she'd made me come back for, none of them were for Ari.

They were entirely for me.

Wow.

But she knew that if she came out swinging at the start, going you're not well, I would never have gone back.

I would never have seen her again and I would have just been swallowed up into just the dark hole of depression, because I hadn't suffered from postnatal depression from what I could understand.

I had suffered from postnatal anxiety.

I knew that beast.

I could pick that beast out in the line-up.

I knew what that looked like.

I knew what it felt like.

I knew what it smelled like.

Everything.

I was intimately familiar with postnatal anxiety.

But postnatal depression, that was new to me.

And I just felt that I was sad.

Not even sad, I was numb.

I was completely numb.

Everything was dark.

And I thought that was just because I was tired.

And that was because I was recovering from a traumatic thing and soon it would be easy.

As soon as he was crawling, I'd be fine.

But she said I think we'll just have this tablet and I've done the score, because they do like a depressing, what's it called?

They do the test after you've had a baby and they want to see how depressed you are.

I can't remember what it is, Edinburgh, something, I'm not sure.

And do this test.

And she's like you, just don't panic.

But you've scored a little bit high on that and I reckon we'll just start this and we'll see how you go.

And I went over to the chemist and I'd realised that there was like a pep in my step.

Like I was like oh, I knew there was something in me which hadn't really recognised, but I knew that I needed that.

I was like, oh, this is going to hurry up.

What are you waiting for?

You know it's helped you in the past.

So I got this medicine.

I came home.

I took it and I know it doesn't kick in like for a bit but within hours I was like, I'm killed.

I worked it out.

I'm okay.

I'm going to be fine.

But the weeks up until that were the darkest, most awful days, where the difference between postnatal anxiety and depression is just like night and day.

Postnatal anxiety was loud and it was bright and it was chaotic and there was so much movement happening.

But with postnatal depression.

For me it was like this stillness and this darkness and there was no flicker of light to be seen.

And I thought I again completely deserved it, because I'd made mistakes along the way and this was just my penance.

They're very beautifully described and I just am thinking about people who are listening to this who are relating to either of those two and, just yeah, the importance of seeking medical.

Yeah, absolutely.

Even if they have to use trickery on you to get you to go.

But that just going and even asking a question.

And it's normal to feel fury at the people who ask.

I was angry at this doctor, both doctors.

I was like taken aback with how frank they were at the time when they actually had to broach the question.

And I was so angry, but that's exactly the response that they were probably expecting.

Like, of course you're feeling angry because you thought that you were going to get through this beautifully.

Are you disappointed that you weren't as good at this?

When I say good at this, it's not – I know now –

It's not about being good at something or bad at something.

It's about how you're handling it and the pedestal that you put yourself on.

And I'm from a long line of like stoic women and my nan and my mum and all of these or my aunties, who seemed to me look like motherhood looked so easy.

And none of them ever talked about it.

None of them ever said, oh, that was – like my mum laughed.

She'd go, God, you were an awful baby.

Oh, my God, you were awful.

I used to put a bit of string around my ankle and the other string on the pram and I would kick the pram down the hallway and then pull you back and kick you down the hallway and pull you back.

And it was just like a funny tale that she told about how hard it was to get me to sleep and how much I cried.

But I reckon if she was honest about that time – who the hell wants to do that?

As if she would have been like, this is so funny.

I'm loving this.

My leg is killing me.

I've got four others.

Yeah, exactly.

She would have had it.

But we were just told to find the funny in it quick.

Find the funny in this quick.

You're covered in vomit.

You've got no identity left.

You feel guilty about A B C D E F G, Like you've got so much all of this stuff, but quickly make it funny.

As soon as you make it funny, we're all going to feel comfortable.

Yeah.

So can I ask, like, how is Ari now?

How old?

Ari's four now.

Oh, he is incredible.

Really?

He's so, so great.

But after the episode, or whatever they wanted to call it, when they sent us home they said we don't know what damage has been done.

We don't know what that was.

We don't know if these bleeds on his brain are – have impacted him long term.

We also don't know because when he came in he had no blood sugar level.

That we don't know because one of the doctors had said look, if he comes out of this, great.

But if he comes out of this, I also want you to remember that when someone has no blood sugar level for a certain amount of time, it couldn't cause brain damage.

So we don't know how long He was limp four and I was like it was hours because I was at home going.

He's just so tired because it was overnight.

I was going, God, he's just not feeding.

That's weird.

He's so tired.

And so, again, I was like, I should have come in earlier.

Now he's got brain damage.

The future is so unclear.

And so when we got home, they were like, his milestones will be delayed because his head is huge.

And it is a magnificently large head.

Let's not, like when people give him, when people are silly enough to give him a kid's hat.

Oh.

Boy, is there egg on their face because it looks so funny.

You wouldn't stop in the street and go.

That is, you're not.

But I have been into GP before with my daughter and I was like oh, she's just got a sore knee.

And this is when Ari would have been I don't know six months old and he was kind of sitting on my lap and I was going.

So she's got a sore knee.

If you just looked at her.

But the doctor, when I looked up, she was just staring at Ari.

And I was like, no, no, this one, this girl one, this one, it's on her knee.

And she said, I'm so sorry, I just have to ask, did you birth that head?

And I said, yeah.

She went, you are incredible.

And I am.

And so he has an adult, I guess, a ginormous head, so he has all adult hats.

But they said, we don't know what.

We don't know.

We'd love to give you answers, but we just don't know.

So his milestones are going to be delayed because his head's so big.

It's going to be hard for him to sit up and crawl and walk because he's just got a bowling ball on top of that tiny little neck.

So we thought okay, so there's going to be delays because physically it's harder, but we don't know mentally what we're going to be dealing with.

So when he started, any milestone he's reached we have been, I have especially Lucas is like of course he's going to be fine, because he truly believed that.

He was like, he's going to be fine.

But I didn't.

So every milestone he's reached, I've been like, this has been – you nailed it, mate.

And so he's talking and he's at – you know he goes to – he's got one more year left of Montessori's and every single time we have a meeting with the teachers they're like yeah, he's great.

Like they don't know anything.

We've told them but they're like, oh, yeah, okay, cool, yeah.

Yeah, he's fine.

He's got his best mates and he's got some friends and he really likes doing this in class and, yeah.

So any questions?

I'm like –

And he's fine?

And they're like, yeah, yeah, he's – isn't this your third kid?

Why are you acting like this is a miracle?

I'm like because for a week it was really likely he was not going to be fine and we still don't know what that did.

But he truly seems fine and this is –

This is exactly the story of him is what I needed to hear in that week.

I remember being on my phone just scouring through the internet just for a story like this, but I couldn't find it.

It was always a really bleak one. the ending was bad or it was unrelatable.

And one doctor kept saying to me and this is again it's hard to know what to say and there's so many wrong things to say.

A doctor said to me, oh, have you got girls?

I said, yeah, he's my first son.

And she said, oh, this is classic boys.

Classic boys, they're troubled, they're lazy.

I was like.

What are you doing?

How are we making this about gender?

He's three days old.

My son doesn't pick up his socks.

I was like, yeah.

Neither does mine, to be fair.

So I know that everyone's trying to say the right thing and there are so many things that are the incorrect thing to say, but sometimes nothing at all is harder.

And I think one of the reasons we say nothing is a few things.

I've thought about this a lot.

One of the reasons we don't say anything to mums when they're struggling is because we don't want to say the wrong thing, but also we're so used to seeing a mum struggle.

Like you seeing that woman, lots of people would have walked past and seen that woman crying, with all of the things falling down and the kids crying.

So many people would have seen that and so many people would, after a few days, completely have forgotten.

Mm-hmm.

We're so used to seeing women struggle with their mental health over massive hormonal shifts in their lives, whether it is having a baby or, down the line, menopause.

When my mum went through menopause, she lost her mind completely.

We were living with a stranger and we had no idea where our mum had gone.

And at the time we were the victims in that.

We really felt like we were the victims because we were like, where did our mum go?

We'd just been replaced by this angry, angry lady.

Why is she doing this to us?

Yeah.

We need our mum.

We're teenagers.

Why is she yelling at us again?

Why is she slamming the door?

Why is she throwing a casserole dish across the kitchen?

What is happening here?

But now as an adult I can reflect on that and how scary for her.

Like she has no idea why she's this angry and her mum wouldn't have talked about menopause with her and it was – and my nan like God knows what she went through when she went through menopause, because no one would have talked about it then.

But they would have witnessed all their friends kind of losing their minds, because it's this huge hormonal upheaval where we just go oh, I don't know who I am anymore or I don't know if I've made any of the right decisions.

But I know I feel uncomfortable in my own skin.

And then all the people who depend on you because, as a mother, you've got all of these dependents around you, and all these people who think they know who you are and you've always put yourself last.

So why on earth would you now make a fuss of yourself?

So I think we are used to watching women go mad and we're used to waiting patiently for them to work it out.

Well, I just think it's such a generous story for you to share and I, like Thousands and thousands and thousands of mums around the country, will relate.

And I do feel like it's a story we don't hear a lot about.

Because I just like exactly what you were going through.

Like I need to cope.

I've seen other people cope.

I don't want to share that I'm not coping.

So I really hope that this helps so many mums out there to feel less alone in what they're going through and to seek help.

So, Bron, thank you so much.

Oh, thanks.

Yeah, you are truly amazing and your kids are so incredibly lucky.

I still haven't found out what religion Ari was, but that's okay.

We can do a follow-up episode.

But thank you so much for your time today.

Thank you, he's anti-hospital.

Thanks dads, and we pay our respects to elders past and present.

The Imperfix is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment.

The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13 11, 14.

[Bron Lewis: Navigating the Chaos of Motherhood, Anxiety, and Resilience]-[Bron Lewis - Is It Me or Postnatal Anxiety?]

📋 Summary

The Unvarnished Reality of Motherhood

The "Noise" of Postnatal Anxiety

Breaking the Silence: The Doctor's Intervention

The Crisis of Ari’s Birth

Rethinking the Maternal Standard

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

[Bron Lewis: Navigating the Chaos of Motherhood, Anxiety, and Resilience]-[Bron Lewis - Is It Me or Postnatal Anxiety?]

📋 Summary

The Unvarnished Reality of Motherhood

The "Noise" of Postnatal Anxiety

Breaking the Silence: The Doctor's Intervention

The Crisis of Ari’s Birth

Rethinking the Maternal Standard

Deep Learning with ListenLeap

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript

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