Discussion keeps the world'sturning.
This isRoundtable. Helloeverybody, welcome toRoundtable.
Coming to you fromBeijing, I'm HeYoung.
Good to have you for thisride.
On a date'sshow, with millions of elderly individuals in need of bathingassistants, the shortage of bath aides and assistants has become a crucial concern that many people are still unawareof.
As we strive to address thischallenge, what innovative solutions can we explore to ensure that no elderly person is left without the essential care theyneed?
And in the world offashion, what's old is newagain, and nothing epitomizes this revival more than Birkenstocks and Crocs and Can I Throw NailieAinsheng, the BeijingTime-honored,cloth, shoe brand into themix.
We uncover the allure of these retro favorites making a stylishcomeback.
Get ready to embrace the past in the most fashionable waypossible.
For today'sprogram, I'm joined by You Should and Brandon Yates in thestudio.
First on a day'sshow. Assisted bathing aides orjewelry, you sure are professionals who provide invaluable support to bid red and elderlyindividuals, ensuring they can bathe safely andcomfortably.
InChina, where approximately 42 million elderly individuals face bathingchallenges, these caregivers arelifelines.
Their services are not just abouthygiene, they're about preserving dignity and enhancing quality oflife.
Despite theirimportance, there is a glaring shortage of suchcaregivers.
It's time to bridge this gap and discuss how we can provide every elderly person the basic comfort of abath.
Soguys, this is still a relatively newoccupation.
Youshould, could you describe to us what does this job entail of the assisted bathing aides or bathassistance?
Yeah, so this is a kind of a door to door service and it's a live service mainly targeting elderlypeople, especially for some elderly people with mobility issues or those unable to care forthemselves, whose children may not have the time or physical ability to help thembathe.
And youknow, at suchtimes, they need this kind ofservices.
And according to the survey done by domestic mediaoutlet, fung huang huang i from dotcom, there are about a thousand bath assistance organizations with roughly 10,000 bath assistance in China and mainly located inthe, youknow, elderly surveying institutions or residentialcommunities.
But the thingis, compared to the number of elderly people with mobilityissues, there is a severe lack of service providers because we can see according to the Chinese National Committee on agent official data shows that 264 million Chinese are aged 60 andabove.
And nearly 42 million lived with different forms of mobility issues as of2020.
So we can see the number of these service providers is far fromenough.
Yes, and this is also something that a lot of people just didn't know is a service thatexisted.
SoBrandon, you're from SouthAfrica.
When you look at thistopic, is this something new toyou?
And also I wonder if you'vecontemplated, you are a pretty youngperson, but still have youcontemplated, youknow, once you're old and maybe you're confined to abed,unfortunately, maybe because of illness orwhatnot.
And what do youdo?Well, I'm wondering if there's a cut off age because I'd like to contact one of these companies rightnow.
I would love to have a team of people come in and bar see when I've had a longday.
But in terms of SouthAfrica, I think it's unique to China to have a service where it's just a bathing service in South Africa when people are elderly and they moveinto, youknow, frail care homes or old age homes and that kind ofthing, they are a team of people that take care of a variety ofneeds, whether it comes to administeringmedication, taking night shifts to make sure that elderly people are safe during theevening, helping with food and a variety of services and being nearby to a hospital and having nursingservices.
So it's more of like aninclusive, all inclusive service as opposed to just this oneservice, which is prettyinteresting.
Yes. Andhere,actually, we could explain a little bit because when you look at how Chinese people prefer to spend their goldenyears, is that a littlecondescending?
Like, why myears? That soundsterrible.
But youknow, those years after retirement or those years that you don't work anymore and you're eligible to collectpension, especially for those who might have fallen ill and can't work anymore orwhatnot.
Anyhow, more than90% of folks prefer to grow old in their ownabode.
Yeah. Sotherefore, that also means that you're saving oncost,right?
Because you'vealready, this house is possiblyyours.
And then so you're caring for yourself or you have people to come in to help you outinstead.
But that might be where the additional costs comein.
So that's thething, youknow, you might be used to living in your own homeand, youknow, being able to take care of many thingsyourself.
And then after doing that formany, manyyears, you kind of have a rough idea in your head of what those costsare.
So I think that's also something that elderly people need to consider is that if they do want to remain in their own home and not move to Freyelke or an old age community or something likethat, to have all of these services on a regular basis could prove quitecostly.
Right. So I think that's also something they need to think about in terms ofbudgeting.
Sure. So I think this possibly goes beyond personal budgeting and your own pocket before a nation having such huge segments of your population growingold.
And you can foresee this kind of elderly care service is going to be an increasingly largedemand.
Then the government needs to act on it and then businesses could act onit.
And thenthere's, youknow, a whole basket of factors we can talk about about coping with this reality that is sort of on the horizon here inChina.
I think that's also Chinese citizens also have an advantage is that when I think of SouthAfrica, when I think about high qualityservices, a lot of that would not be covered by thegovernment.
So if you are in that situation where you want to stay at home and you want high quality service and you don't want to move into a low cost government facilityor, youknow, situations that you might not be comfortable putting your elderly parents in or putting yourself in when you reach thatage, making sure that you have access to all of those private services does become quitecostly.
So inChina, if the government does get involvedand, youknow, sees that there's a growing need for these services and is able to assist people in terms of covering the costs of thoseservices.
Imean, that's a fantastic initiative and hopefully that's something that has been looked at and is still being lookedat.
That's a very goodpoint.
Andalso, I think what the Chinese government in the past havedone.
And this isonly, youknow, what we've gotten so far is that you've seen in China that since the1990s, there has been this gradual build up of a pensionsystem.
So I think for the majority of citizens in this country who have contributed to the pensionfund, I think currently the situation is more like there's going to be an amount of money that you can collect from the pension fund after youretire.
But for the better quality of elderlycare, that is still something that's very much in theair.
People are talking aboutthis.
How can it befinanced? I think the difference of this specific service is that it is door to door as we mentioned in thebeginning.
Ofcourse, we have these kind of services in these kindof, youknow, elderly healthcareinstitutions.
They will nursinghomes.
Yeah, they help them to do thesestuff.
But for these people who are staying at home or they have probably have kids and they try to helpthem, but theycannot, which is kindof, youknow, also one of the reasons that these people need these kind of services because they would like to helpthem, but they are unable to helpthem.
Right. That's a very goodpoint.
One of the examples that the articles circling around have been quoting is basicallywhen, let's say there was aMr.
Wong and his son in law has been helping this elderly gentleman to takebaths.
Andyeah,unfortunately, this older gentleman has been confined to his bed for manyyears.
And it's a basic need to feel clean and to enjoy this basiccomfort, Isuppose.
Butanyhow, his son inlaw,well, the thing is you have a daughter and the thingis, it's just an awkwardsituation.
Iknow. That's something like you might be willing to do it and you want to help people in your life that you love as much as youcan, but youknow, there is the awkward situation of having to bathesomeone.
Imean, I guess there are ways that you can make it lessawkward,like, youknow, maybe you can get the elderly people to wear swimsuit or something like that to take that awkwardsituation.
So I think that's also something that might make these services needed is that even though you do have the time and you would love to help theelderly, maybe you are willing to pay for service to get the professionals to doit, but also to avoid just an uncomfortablesituation.
I see what youmean. And I'm glad you raised that part because maybe I don't think this is comfortable foranybody, but I think for differentcultures, youknow, people may see itdifferently.
I think for Chinesepeople, I think sometimes it's pragmatism and also caring for people you love sort of overrides everythingelse.
I guess on the west there's like definiteboundaries.
So you want to like take care of the people that you love and the elderly as much as youcan, but there's definitely lines that I guess in ourculture, we would just find awkward and bathing is definitely one of thosesituations.
I can't picture anyone in my family bathing me or me bathingthem.
The thingis, what if there's no other person to doit?
But there's the storage at allservice.
Yeah. That'savailable.
It gives rise to thisservice.
But let me just quickly finish what I was going tosay.
Sofor, let's say if the father only has one daughter and she's physically uncapable of lifting a very heavy grown upman.
And therefore her lovely husband stands up to thetask.
But this poorguy, he's in his 50s too and he got his back thrownout, carrying the elderly father who's a very tall and goodguy.
No, good deed goesunpunished.
And therefore it seems like what do youdo?
And then like yousaid,Brandon, they're resortingto,oh, there's a paid professional service to get the jobdone.
And I think when you look at the situation thislight, then it could be a life saver in away.
I think it's lies to just have theoption.
So Imean, like yousaid, for differentcultures, this sort of scenario is different depending on theculture.
And obviously inChina, there is that desire to do absolutely everything that youcan.
That's possible to help elderly people in yourlife.
But there are situations like the one that you just mentioned where it just isimpossible.
So just to have this option of this door to door bathingservice, I think is good just to have an extra like in any situation inlife, just to have a plan B is alwaysgreat.
And this is an excellent plan B for the scenario we've been talkingabout.
Yeah. And it could become easily become plan A for a lot of people when you growold.
And also youshould, you've done some researchhere.
Tellus, break it down forus.
How to provide this service in terms ofequipment,personnel, skill and a whole bunch of otherfactors.
Yeah. As we've been talking a lot about these obstacles of this industry todevelop, we can see that they are actually trying to make this whole processsmooth.
So first ofall, you need topersonnel, usually a bath assistance team may have two to threepeople, male and female bath assistants serve the customers of the samegender.
And thenequipment, ofcourse, they will provide or bring with all of theseequipment, forexample, inflatablebathtub, controllers that connect it to a water pump and a shower head also with somegloves, shower caps and shower gel and a thermal meter and a timer and something likethat.
So we can see that from the environment to the equipment to thetemperature, bathassistance, consider these issues and also to address these kind of issues of awkwardness orsomething, they also need to have that kind of a specific skills to communicate with theircustomers.
Because the skills of communication andinteraction, especially with elderly people who may fear physical contact or have maybe memory loss is verycrucial.
So in thisway, techniques of communication and soothing become very important also in a way that make them feel comfortable to do that is verysocial.
I think you raised such a great point because foranybody, we're all humanbeings.
We know how uncomfortable that situation could be and havingstrangers.
Well, there'sprofessionals, but there's strangers to come in and help you dothis.
Okay,well, here's atough, a hot potato topic for you to have a quick response to dearfriend,Brandon.
So youknow,friends,well, not reallyfriends.
So abloodline, blood related family member or strangerthat,well, you hope this person knows what he or she isdoing.
Right.Yeah. Which isbetter.
Yeah. What can I choose the person that bathes me because they never definitely choosethat?
No, I'mjoking.No, I think when you're old andfrail.
Right.Yeah. And that tall young urges liftme.
Muscle mass has beenlost.
We'll cut all of thisout.
No, but I think it depends on theindividual.
So there's so many things toconsider, like we've alreadymentioned, undressing and communication and memoryloss.
So I think every situation is going to be unique and it really depends on theindividual.
Okay. What about thisthen?
Yeah. What do you think is needed to make you ease thequail, to make youfeel,oh, I can accept thisperson.
Ofcourse, the premise is that a totalprofessional,right?
It follows the protocol in helping you to perform theservice.
I guess having a set of rules and regulations would reallyhelp.
And then maybe before the bath takesplace, just maybe have a conversation with the elderly person if they are able to communicate properly or with whoever is taking care of thatperson, just to make sure what their boundaries are and what they are willing to do and not willing to do and what they're comfortable with and not comfortablewith.
I think that's the most important factor iscommunication.
And also from the service point ofview, just beingprepared, like yousaid, having all of the necessary equipment and having experience and people that are there and willing to do the job and are able to do it in a professional and accuratemanner, Isuppose.
Those are probably the factors that need to beconsidered.
Yeah. And apparently before providing theservice, the bathassistance, sometimes if this is a newclient, they will hold hands with the elderlyperson, have a proper chat or heart toheart.
I don't know what it'scalled, butreally, youknow, just tocommunicate.
Andcertainly, what is going tohappen?
It's just making me so scared of getting old because all of this sounds so uncomfortable and soawkward.
But Imean, it is something that needs to be considered and dealtwith.
And youknow, like we've alreadydiscussed, there are various ways that it can be dealtwith.
And I think this is anexcellent, like yousaid, potential plan Aor, youknow, like Imentioned, a planB.
So just to give elderly people as many options as possible to give them the dignity that they deserve in a potentially awkwardsituation, I think is the bestsolution.
And having that added option just gives them more of an ability to determine what they are comfortablewith.
Andwell, this is not to add insult toinjury, but it adds to an increasingly awkwardsituation.
But as when I was doingresearch, it just struck me sohard.
Apparently, one of the common situations that the bathing aides encounter iscoming,Brandon, too bad everybody can't see hisface.
But this is a realproblem.
And it was like heart wrenching when I readthis.
So a fair number of theclients, because they haven't enjoyed a bath in solong, andalso, youknow, your muscles are stiff and you're dying for something of a comfortable pampering treatment in away.
Andalso, this is part of humannature.
Okay. So the incontinence problem doesarise.
And that is the lack of ability to control the bladder and bowels when someone is soaked in warm waterafter,well, youknow, this person is probably in need of a bath for a very longtime.
Lovely. And this is just part of humannature.
Our body reacts to thatsituation.
Andthen,therefore, for the bathingaides, they'll need to clean thewater,right?
They'll need to possibly refill andeverything.
So there are some of these complications that I think isunderstandable, but you also understand that this is not an easy job or service todo.
And I guess that's where some of the responsibility lies with the bathing companiesthemselves.
It's just making sure that the team that they sendout, or all of the employees that they have are prepared to deal with and are comfortable with every possible scenario that may comeup.
So I think all of those situations areawkward.
There's nothing you can do aboutthat.
But if the bathing assistants are trained and prepared as highly as possible and they're prepared for any possiblescenario, then that can make those situations that we've mentioned as not awkward aspossible.
But Imean, but regardless of whateverhappens, thosescenarios, when they do comeup, it's going to be uncomfortable for everybodyinvolved.
Well, the thingis, maybe if it's a very professionalmatter, then it takes away the awkwardness and having sort of a playbook of steps on what to doencountering, these are pretty commonsituations,actually.
So I think might take the awkwardnessaway.
And also just as a little side note here for our international listeners who mightwonder, what do you need to have an inflatablebathtub?
I was wonderingthat,yeah.
Yeah,right. Because inChina, it's rare that apartments come with abathtub.
Right. Just a showernormally.
Yeah, it's usually ashower.
And I assume for the 42 million bed redden or partially bedredden, elderlyindividuals, maybe the body is paralyzed and is maybe difficult to even setup.
So the best solution in that sense is to take a bath instead of ashower, but average households in this country might not have the facility and therefore gives rise to this kind ofservice.
I guess that's why so many of these unfortunate people that are bedridden.
And we've also said elderly quite alot.
It can also be youngpeople.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of bed ridden young people that also have to deal with thesescenarios.
But it's great to hear that there is something that can be done to give them some sort of comfort that they may not have previously had access to a variety ofreasons.
And one of them is not having access to a bath in their ownhome.
And that also explains why so many of these people have unfortunately also not bathed for like you said quite a longtime.
But also bathed hubs can be really slipperytoo.
Yeah. Andshowers.Yeah.
That's why I heard that a lot of these professionals or these assistants will have a basically at least 10 minute talk with their customers before theystarted.
At least tell them that everything isfine.
Everything is okay and everything will happen is going to be justnatural.
And ofcourse, another thing is that's at the risk of fallingdown.
That is part of the challenging part of thisservice.
And also everyone is afraid offalling.
Ofcourse, especially for elderly people of fall could truly belife-retaining.
And so many people for safety reasons may choose not to undertake this tech and resulting in some elderly individuals may not take a shower of bath for severalyears.
And that's why these kind of a professional service provider areneeded.
Right. And on top ofthat, I think it's really important to publicize that this kind of service doexist.
But one of the huge hurdles that prevents it from making the leaps and bounds of development now is because ofprice, because ofcost, because this is something that you're paying out of your own pocket is not covered by the medicalcare, insurance orwhatnot.
Andtherefore, we're looking at the service charge is usually between 200 to 500yuan, which is 28 to 70 US dollars pertrip.
And usually each trip will take up more than two hours oftime.
And there are at least two individuals who are bringing the equipment to your home and provide theservice.
So I've been doing some diggingonline.
Actually, I see kind of mixed reviews on this because some people saythat,oh, this is way too expensive for average Chinesefamilies.
But there are also other internet users leaving long comments and saying that actually this is something that we're willing to payfor.
Even if this means that maybe we need to save up a littlebit, but in light of the benefits it canbring, there are some people who are willing to pay forit.
But after reading various interviews of practitioners and also business owners in thisfield, they say just charging this labor cost that I'm talking about here is still far from covering all the costs of hiring people and providingeverything.
Yes, imagine you need tospend, forexample, 300 yuan or basically 40 US dollars for one timebath.
And you need to bath at least once aweek,right?
It isexpensive. We have to admitthat.
But considering the profit of these companies that they're having two practitioners or two professionals are coming to your door with all of thisequipment, they need to survive aswell.
And there's a lotof...Yes.
Imean, that's thething.
It does sound expensive in terms of thecustomer, but when you actually look at the service provided and everything that goes into that and the time that it takes aswell, ultimately in terms of a businessmodel, it's not particularlyexpensive.
Then here comes the ultimatequestion.
And we only have a few seconds toanswer.
So listenup,guys. So as asociety, what can we do in facing thissituation?
Imean, I guess it's something that elderly peoplethemselves, all the people that look after them need to take intoconsideration.
They need to look at all of the costs that might come with living in the residents that they have lived in for when they were able to take care ofthemselves.
And I think going back to the government's scenario aswell, maybe that is also something that needs to be lookedat.
Maybe the situations afflicting disabled or half disabled people needs to beaddressed.
And maybe this is one of those issues that can be assisted by from the governmentside.
Yeah. The awareness is very important not only by thegovernment, but also thecitizens, also insurancecompanies.
They maybe can provide some of these insurance to make the whole process safety guaranteed and then to make more people feel comfortable of using these kind ofservice.
And also possibly getting into theindustry, this line ofwork.
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