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This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.
In 2018...
The FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.
The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.
This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families.
Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime.
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
I was a monster.
Listen to Burden of Guilt, Season 2 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeart Radio.
Good morning.
This is Laura.
Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a longer one part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us.
So today I am delighted to welcome Lars May to Before Breakfast.
Lars is a leader in the digital wellness movement, something I know a lot of people here are thinking about and about our relationship with technology.
So Lars, welcome to the show.
Good morning and thank you for having me.
Yeah, I'm delighted to have you here.
So why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
My name is Lars.
I am one of the founders of the digital wellness movement and I believe in building a life where we can find harmony with technology, as opposed to allowing technology to take control of our senses.
What inspired me to get involved in this space was 10 years ago, after almost losing my life to technology as a young person.
And that led me to start Half the Story, which is a nonprofit, on a mission to empower the next generation's relationship with technology.
And now Ginkgo, a new business that aims at bringing parents closer to their kids and using tech as a way to give them signals about what's really going on beneath the surface of screen time.
Absolutely.
Well with screen time, I mean.
I know a lot of the headlines are about things with mental health and I know you've had a journey with that as well.
But Beyond even that I mean on a fundamental level I think what gets at a lot of people about the screen time issue is that it's a sheer volume of time.
Right.
Like the people are spending so much time engaged with their screens, and it winds up being a significant chunk of the day.
I mean, I know you've done research into this.
Like how much how much time are we talking here?
Well, the average teenager will spend 30 years of their life behind a screen.
Most of you that are listening to this right now probably picked up your phone within three minutes of waking up.
And most people are picking up their phone 96 times a day.
But what we don't talk about is that screen time is just the surface.
Screens are really symptoms for what we're experiencing or what our needs are that need to be met.
Oftentimes we're reaching for screens because we're feeling anxious or we're bored, or we're feeling disconnected from our partners.
So I really think we need to flip the script on screen time and really start thinking about digital wellness as brain health and a larger movement, but really with actions that help us get better at it.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm sure people think about it.
OK, yeah.
Past three minutes, I probably picked up my phone.
I mean, people are listening to this podcast probably on their phones.
It may have forwarded through an ad or something like that.
But you know, I don't know that many people, if they sat and thought about it, be like yes, I would love to spend 30 years of my life on a phone.
Or, yes, I would love to pick up my phone 96 times a day.
I mean, it's kind of unintentional, right?
Absolutely, it's in our subconscious.
And what we have to do is retrain our brain, quite literally, think of this as a new wellness, so that we can preserve our cognition and memory.
Because the moment that we're in right now, the question is not how much screen time do we have?
That's been the issue of the last 30 years.
Now the question is is how is screens or technology at large, with open AI, now creating wearables?
How is that going to change the way that humans interact with themselves?
But ultimately, how do we preserve humanity, the things that make us us on a daily basis?
And it sounds crazy, but for many of us, how we start our day can be very human and those small practices can actually change our outcomes and help us go from good to great, from an emotional baseline, a social baseline.
And that's why I believe screen time is a symptom and that we ultimately can't be thinking about all screen time is the same, but really more about like food and to be really conscious about what are we creating online versus what are we consuming in order to preserve our emotional baseline.
Yeah well, I like that food analogy because I mean much, as with food there's a lot that is within your control.
You cannot give it up 100%.
And in the modern world, it's probably the same with screens, correct?
Absolutely.
And so how would you define sort of digital wellness?
I mean, if we're looking for a way of thinking about this, what is digital wellness?
Digital wellness is the ability to practice and cultivate a positive relationship with technology that supports your life rather than hurts it.
So what that really is is small practices which I think we'll get into in a minute that over time move big doors.
Well, let's go ahead and start with this.
I know you have some ideas of people are setting kind of digital wellness resolutions.
Much as we might set resolutions to eat more healthfully or get to the gym more often,
Why don't we talk through a few of those?
What's one of the first ones you'd recommend?
The first one is to intentionally go AI free one day a week.
I think we talk a lot about tech detoxes, which is great.
But the reality is, is that every time we're using AI, we're not actively engaging our brain.
And so making that small shift one day a week can be incredible for your cognition.
The second thing is actually taking handwritten notes during meetings.
Research shows us that ultimately, handwriting will help you with memory and cognition and that when you leave a meeting mostly in the digital world, now that you'll actually have better recall and process
So many of us already have AI note takers and I think it's easy to go into autopilot, but handwriting actually slows us down.
I love that, actually, you know, because the...
It's not just having a record of the meeting.
The note-taking process is about getting it into your brain where you can actually use it.
Yeah, and we've lost that.
I'm not sure if you saw the article about middle schoolers trying to bring back cursive in school and we've seen stationary shops are booming now, but humans are craving the need to communicate.
Our ability to emote and to connect with others is something that defines us from technology.
We have to know when to swap screens with scripts. when to swap emails for snail mail.
And I ultimately believe from my own experience that to go from good to great in a day, to really feel like you're sitting and processing a tough interaction or even a creative brainstorm, You have to go beyond the screen and into the script or the notebook, which I have a bunch of them on my desk.
And that's another tip I like to say, which is everyone's talking about the analog bag.
What about the analog desk?
On my desk, I have beads to make friendship bracelets so I don't multitask in meetings.
We need to break the scroll cycle by having things to actually engage us when we feel the need to multitask, which isn't even really something that humans can do.
All right.
Well, we're going to take one quick ad break and then we'll be back with more.
On digital wellness from Lars May.
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?
Think again.
More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.
And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.
So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.
Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.
Think podcasting can help your business?
Think iHeart.
Streaming, radio and podcasting.
Call 844-844-iHeart to get started.
That's 844-844-iHeart.
China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world.
But in 2017, the FBI got inside.
This is Special Agent Regal.
Special Agent Bradley Hall.
This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him.
But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary.
Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast.
I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life.
And that's a unicorn.
No one had ever seen anything like that.
It was unbelievable.
This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief.
The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.
Everyone thought they knew how it ended.
A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby.
Lucy Letby has been found guilty.
But what if we didn't get the whole story?
The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.
I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letbe, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letbe was.
No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.
It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong.
Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letbe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Talking with Lars May, who's a leader in the digital wellness movement.
And I love the idea that you just said you have friendship bracelet making kits on your desk.
You're holding it up.
I wish our listeners could see that.
And you mentioned that's about not multitasking when you're doing.
I mean, are you doing that to keep your hands occupied while you're listening to things or just as a total break?
I'm curious how you incorporate that.
Absolutely.
I believe that in the world that we're living in, if you're a CEO or you're on the other side of the screen, I would bet that nine times out of 10, the person you're meeting with is probably checking their phone or their email during that meeting.
You are not getting undivided attention.
And so for me, by having a friendship bracelet or knitting, or even just a notebook to jot down my notes, is my commitment to undivided attention.
And I oftentimes share at the beginning of the meeting.
I want you to know I'm making a friendship bracelet or I'm coloring my pug coloring book, Because I don't want to be tempted to multitask and to pick up my phone.
And it's something that I think we've just normalized multitasking, but it's actually not true.
What you're doing is switch tasking and you're giving everything 10% or 15% as opposed to 100%.
Because it's like you need that one little thing to do that people have a slight bit of nervous energy.
And I guess the friendship bracelet making is a way to capture that.
Or maybe something like walking while you are having a meeting.
I've got my walking treadmill down here.
I wasn't going to do that for this.
But really getting out of our heads and into our bodies in order to get into the present in the digital world.
And there's a new concept that I've been hanging my hat on, which is really digital attunement, which is how can we use digital technologies to convene and actually better attune to our own needs and others, to lead to more human and better outcomes?
And I believe that the way that we're designing technology but ultimately our lives, needs to be thinking about those nuances as opposed to just checklists and how we're spending our time, but really adding that intention, because the difference between a minute and a moment is that intention.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we've been going through some of these digital wellness resolutions.
I know we had go AI free one day a week, maybe just on a practical level.
I mean, I guess you have to be careful about what you're doing with your browser, even if that, because a lot of it's automatic right.
Well, what I really mean is that do not go on quad or open AI for a day.
And what that forces you to do is actually write every email, actually take handwritten notes from the meeting.
Sometimes what I'll do is I'll actually capture notes on my notebook and I'll take photos and upload them to AI to then translate them to the digital world, which I think is a really phenomenal practice.
When the world started using Google Maps and we moved on a MapQuest, I think we all probably remember our parents printed that out and it was like we need to make a guide for the road.
You didn't have to think about that anymore because you started going into autopilot.
What happens in the digital world is that when we go to AI for every single answer or to write every single email, even personal emails or texts, our brain is going into autopilot.
So you have to make that choice to rev up the engine that is your brain and strengthen that muscle in order to really preserve your brain health.
And I think...
Yes, this is about digital wellness, revolution, resolution, but digital wellness is brain health.
And my hypothesis is that, based on what we're seeing with kids, how their brains are literally changing because of technology, if we don't do these things, we're going to start seeing earlier onset dementia and Alzheimer's because our brains are weakening over time.
All right.
Well, that's a scary thought.
And we've all laughed at the people who are putting on a map software in order to get somewhere that clearly you've been to a dozen times before.
It's like, did you did you not think about this?
Like your brain is not even even operating in a, you know, an engaged form.
OK, so number two was to take our notes by hand.
What's number three?
Number three is to ultimately use the digital world to maximize your time in the real world.
So what I do, for example, is every Sunday, I love to look up recipes on the internet.
One of the best ways to waste your time is running around a grocery store for three hours trying to find all the things.
What I do is I come up with my theme for the week.
I take my recipes.
I drop them into chat GBT and say pull out everything I'm going to need for a party of two and organize every recipe and item I need by aisle to maximize my time at the store.
What that does is reduces the amount of time I have to actually think about getting the materials and optimize my time for the creative thinking.
Excellent.
All right, what's the next one?
So the next one is swap email for snail mail.
One of the best ways that you can actually rewire your brain is through gratitude.
I always have a box of stationery with me and it's very easy to write an email or a text, but when you actually show up to a meeting or you send a letter in the mail, it shows that you cared.
And you cared enough to stop, drop, and write instead of just throwing in a prompt to open AI.
And that's what goes from a digital transaction into a human transformation in relationships.
I love that one.
I think a lot of young people these days don't even know how you address and stamp an envelope.
I had a conversation with one of my kids about the purchasing of stamps.
It had never come up before.
I mean, if they're not being taught cursive in school, how would they know how to put a stamp on a letter?
It's true.
It's true.
It's not something we think about, but a great tip for people here to carry cards in your purse or backpack and take a few minutes if you've got some downtime to do it.
And then you've got a fifth one as well.
Yeah.
Brick your phone.
I have a brick.
It's an incredible tool.
I'm sure you've been seeing it all over the internet.
What I love about it is that it's actually the physical act of tapping your phone and tapping you out of the digital world.
I spend all of my weekends now completely social media free.
In the spirit of handwritten notes, I've actually decided to master the art of calligraphy.
And that's something that I'm now... spending my weekends on and swapping my scrolling doing that.
If you think about it, if you're spending eight hours a day online and on the weekends you're spending eight hours a day and they say it takes 10000 hours to master something you should really just find an art and go after it.
That is the best thing you can do for your productivity, for your mental health.
And it also gives you something to focus on besides work.
Yeah, and with that it's really a two-step process.
Then, because you're saying first you make sure that the technology is not necessarily an option, like it's not an easy option for you.
I mean, you can get around the brick if you need to, but it's not an easy option.
And then you also have to think of what sort of analog fun whatever would fill your time otherwise.
I always say swap screens with fun.
So yes, and I think...
When you're just getting on your digital wellness journey, and the same way that when you're on a diet, you want to make it harder to access ice cream.
Maybe you're not putting it in the freezer and maybe you're not buying the family size chips.
Some people are hiding them or putting them in their kids' lunch boxes to take at school.
You have to do the same with tech.
Delete the things that you know are bad for you.
That's the junk food of the digital world.
Bite size and focus on the positive consumption.
I would argue that your podcast is a phenomenal way to actively consume technology and walk away with real skill sets that are going to take your life from good to great.
Listening to you versus mindlessly scrolling on TikTok and feeling hopeless are both time spent in the digital world, but the outcomes are drastically different.
So we need to start thinking about our inputs, how it makes us feel and spend more time in the active state of consumption the apples and the banana of the digital world as opposed to the passive, which might be the fast food.
And so someone listening to this might be like, well, Lars, that sounds great.
What do I do if the people around me are still kind of on screens?
Like, how can I broach this with, you know, friends or family members?
Like hey, I'd love to have, you know, a screen free dinner with you guys, or I'd love to hang out and not be checking our phones for things.
Are there good ways to have that conversation?
The conversation is one thing.
The action is another.
Get a box, put it at your front door and say, we're screen free tonight.
And if you really need to call someone or text someone, you can get outside this room.
But I think it's about containing spaces for socialization.
All right.
Well, we're going to take one more quick ad break and then I'll be back with more from Lars May.
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting.
Think again.
More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.
And as the number one podcaster, I heart's twice as large as the next two combined.
So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.
Plus only I heart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.
Think podcasting can help your business?
Think iHeart.
Streaming, radio and podcasting.
Call 844-844-iHeart to get started.
That's 844-844-iHeart.
In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief.
The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.
Everyone thought they knew how it ended.
A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby.
Lucy Letby has been found guilty.
But what if we didn't get the whole story?
The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.
I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt, The Case of Lucy Lettby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Lettby was.
No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.
It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong.
Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letbe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world.
But in 2017, the FBI got inside.
This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.
This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him.
But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary.
Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast.
I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life.
And that's a unicorn.
No one had ever seen anything like that.
It was unbelievable.
This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Well, I am back talking with Lars May, who is a leader in the digital wellness movement.
We've been comparing digital wellness resolutions to some of the physical wellness resolutions we might set, like you know, making it harder to do things that we don't want to do, making it easier to do more of things that we do wish to have in our lives.
So, Lars, I'd like to pivot a little bit more to your schedule.
You've been talking about having time off screens on weekends.
I'm wondering what a workday tends to look like for you.
Well, I sleep from nine to five or 4.45 a.m.
The first thing I do is wake up.
I like to put on gospel music.
I immediately flip the switch of multiple senses, one being sent.
So I always light incense and I actually spend the first 30 minutes of my day free writing completely screen free.
And what that allows me to do is all of my creative processing, And then what I actually do is make a bulleted list of what are the three rocks that I actually want to achieve today, before I even get into technology.
Because digital overload has a really great way of making you think that 100 things are important, when usually it's only three things that are going to move your business forward.
In my workday, I really try to implement digital wellness into my team culture.
So what that looks like is 108 seconds of silence before we start an internal meeting.
It allows people to attune and drop in.
It's actually something that Bob Weir used to do.
And he would say that it's enough time to make you feel uncomfortable, but comfortable, and to also recognize people that have gone into other realms.
And I know that silence can feel weird, but it's actually one of the most powerful ways to create vulnerability and connection.
I incorporate walk and talk.
So a lot of times when people want to meet with me, if I'm not looking at a screen, I say sorry, I'm putting on my headphones and I'm going to walk my pugs.
And I hope that's okay with you, but you're going to get the best of me if I'm fully present and out in the world.
I think that we don't talk about that a lot as leaders, but we should be asking for more screen-free connection.
And there's even some research that shows, when you're speaking in audio and you're fully present there, that you can actually get deeper and you have better ideas.
A lot of my day is on Zoom when I'm not on the ground or meeting with my team in person.
So finding that healthy harmony, I think, balances everything, honestly made up completely.
It allows me to still feel like I have enough cognitive fuel for creativity.
I typically stack my Zoom meetings in the afternoon, because the morning, from about 5 am till noon, is my most productive and creative time.
So I try to optimize my day for that output.
At the end of every day, I write one or two letters, either to people I've met with that day investors, young people I've impacted politicians.
And I mail them.
And it's one of the best practices of gratitude to really seal my day, literally and figuratively, but also brings that tactile moment for processing, instead of just constantly going from screens into more screens into bed, which I think was the vicious cycle that we're all trying to break free from that the pandemic put us in.
Well, speaking of which I know a lot of my listeners are still doing a lot of their meetings on Zoom or Teams or other related programs.
Are there ways to make those meetings feel more human and like we're connecting even if we're not in the same place?
Oh, absolutely.
I think that pets are one of the most powerful human equalizers.
And I did an incredible workshop with an organization called Soul Paws with my team, where we actually all brought our pets and did mindfulness and loving meditation manifestations and meditations with them.
And what it actually brought to light was how distracted we are when we're with our animals, which oftentimes means we're really distracted with ourselves and we're not tuning into our own needs.
And so I think that finding ways where you can connect together, like bringing in your animal or saying we're going to do a family zoom, come bring your kids.
And we want to meet them in the same way that you would say let's go to the park.
Allows your coworkers to have more empathy for what's going on beyond your small window.
So that's something that we practice a lot.
And I think I always like to start my meetings with also, what's your truth today?
We get onto these calls.
You don't know that right before this, my dogs were fighting over a bone and my husband had to come in and pull them out.
And I had to reground so that I could be fully present here.
And we don't have those in real life emotional attunement and that connection.
And it's important to have those micro moments of connection in the digital world so that we don't lose that.
Absolutely.
Well, that would be a different way to start a Zoom for sure.
I'm going to think about that, asking people what their truth is right now.
Get at what they've just been doing.
So Lars, you know that I always ask people in these interviews what is something you have done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
Something that I've started doing recently is actually singing into Suno in the morning and almost wrapping my feelings when nobody's watching.
And it sounds really silly, but it's actually an incredible way to bring joy and to also just let out all of your emotions and to let Suno see on the other side what that song is.
It's almost like creating your own soundtrack to your life.
Well, I was wondering if you were singing with the gospel music that you're playing when you first wake up as part of your morning routine.
I'm curious, why did you choose gospel music?
I mean, that sounds amazing, but it's not one I hear often.
You know, I... love this soulful connection in history.
And one of my favorite songs is this little light of mine, the Sam Cooke addiction.
And I think the good to great, quite frankly, for me is always lighting a candle.
It's adding ritual to everything, a ritual to a meeting, a ritual to a song.
And I look up to Oprah Winfrey.
I listen to a lot of what she says and how she lives her life.
And I think there's something that's so deeply special about gospel music that ignites you and strikes a different chord.
And it helps me feel grounded, quite frankly.
And so Nina Simone is beautiful and someone that I wish I could have had dinner with before she passed.
But it's just the act of soul.
And I think in this world where we're all fighting for attention and headspace and mind space, we have to figure out how to preserve our souls so that we can do that heart work.
Absolutely.
All right.
Well, and what's something you are looking forward to right now?
Man, so many things.
I think what I'm looking forward to is And the nonprofit that I started.
We've launched a fund in the state of New York for teens to create screen-free, fun social events across the state.
And we're going to be duplicating that model because there have been a lot of rules nationally and statewide about AI and tech.
And I'm going to watch...
A hundred teens bring fear into fun through screen-free proms and dances.
And to know that we could take something that feels scary and to make it joyful is really what the digital wellness revolution is all about.
Sounds excellent.
Well, Lars, where can people find you if they want to learn more?
You can find me at Living Like Lars.
You can go to halfthestoryproject.com or heygenko.com, but find me in my DMs.
I want to hear how these rituals work for you and what you're swapping your screens with for fun.
Please take her up on that for sure.
Well, Lars, thank you for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening.
If you have feedback about this or any other episode, you can always reach me at laura, at lauravandercamcom.
And in the meantime, this is Laura.
Thanks for listening.
And here's to making the most of our time.
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at laura at lauravandercam.com.
Before Breakfast is a production of iHeart Media.
For more podcasts from iHeart Media, please visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.
In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.
The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.
This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families.
Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime.
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
I was a monster.
Listen to Burden of Guilt, Season 2 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
On the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast.
When peanut butter disappears from school Ella, Scout and Layla launch a full detective mission.
Their search leads them back in time to meet a brilliant inventor whose curiosity changed the world.
In this Black History Month adventure, asking questions, thinking creatively can lead to amazing discoveries.
Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network.
This is an iHeart Podcast.
Guaranteed human.
