Hello there, how are you doing?
This week on the podcast, I've invited Ollie Cook who is a mindset coach for high achievers.
He's going to give you practical tips to help you deal with some of the biggest blocks that you face.
Let's crack on then, shall we?
Welcome back to Confident Business English.
You're here with me, Anna, your neuro language coach. I wanted to dedicate time specifically looking at mindset.
As a coach, what I see is the technical improvements in English and the consistent practice really boost confidence with specific skills.
But alongside that, it's the mindset shifts that are really important part of helping people lower their anxiety, reduce their stress, and just have a better time communicating in English on a day -to -day basis, and quite frankly, not suffering so much. It's also my view that communicating in another language, in this case, English, in a professional context as a senior manager, who is a high achiever, is uniquely challenging.
That's why I really wanted to bring Ollie on to the podcast. And we've really made this episode for you.
If you have a lot of anxiety communicating in English and it really holds you back, you feel like you're going in circles.
If that describes your situation and you're interested in learning more about mindset, then this episode is definitely for you.
If that's not really your cup of tea, totally get it.
Don't worry, come back again next week where I'm going to be going into more business English vocabulary.
Just before we get started, it is a longer episode this week.
I tried my very best to make it as lean an episode as possible, but it's kind of hard to squeeze in a conversation in under 15 minutes.
So I hope you don't mind.
But I thought you'd like to hear from somebody else for a change to be honest. You're probably sick of hearing me every week.
And if you want to follow along with the transcript, you can get a full version available if you become a free member of the podcast, go to the link in the description box to sign up.
If you do sign up and become a free member of the podcast, you'll also get my newsletter every Friday.
And in this week's edition, what I'm going to do is condense down the mindset tips from the episode and put them in a little cheat sheet that perhaps you could put near your desk or your laptop.
So if you want to get that, make sure you sign up at Become A Free member.
Link below. Alright, without any further adieu, let's welcome Ollie.
Hi Ollie, welcome to Confident Business English.
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Could you start by telling us just a little bit about you?
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
I'm Ollie. Yeah, I'm a mindset coach for high achievers.
I work mostly with entrepreneurs.
One of them is the one month intensive.
This is called Future You.
So we get the blocks out of the way and then we really clarify the blueprint on what's the future you that you're moving towards and then we get the unconscious mind on board as well.
So it's, it's a real blend of that.
And then my six month is unstoppable, and that really is where for my clients they are, they're going for some very big goals.
They're very ambitious, and they're just not willing to be slowed down by the mindset obstacles anymore.
I used to be a, an English pronunciation and confidence coach and I also used to suffer with anxiety and panic attacks for pretty much my whole life and it got really bad in my 20s.
I've really tried out so many things that don't work and so I have a good understanding of what actually shifts things at the unconscious level so that that change feels natural and it lasts.
Wonderful well we're very lucky to have you here.
I'd like to jump straight in Ollie and I am going to imagine a situation that perhaps somebody listening right now is going through.
Let's imagine it's a senior manager in a multinational company, they feel very, very nervous when they have to speak in front of others, whether that's their peers, other people they work with, maybe it's their executives that they have to report to or perhaps it's their clients that they have to sell or build a relationship with and every single time they speak they get these nerves and it's such an unpleasant experience.
So Olly, what practical advice could you give to somebody that's perhaps going through this type of situation?
I'm sure a lot of people can really resonate with that.
What I won't be doing is just telling generic sort of basic breathing exercises that you can put into YouTube.
I know you've already tried that if you're going through this type of situation.
I'm going to address the deeper causes and solutions, you know, in the best way I can with the time today.
I would say as well, if the nerves keep coming back, again and again, then it's really worth getting to the root of what's underneath that.
We can actually make changes to the operating system that's like underneath those nerves, which can make a huge and lasting impact.
But as practical advice, I would say the main thing that most people don't understand is what anxiety actually is, right?
And we can think of like nerves as being sort of like a another way of thinking about anxiety.
So first, I just want to explain how anxiety works, because once understand that, the solutions make a lot more sense too.
First, what you will have experienced is a fear thought about something that's going to happen.
So this might be speaking at the meeting or having that conversation with the executive or client.
Next, what happens is your body actually gets stronger to respond to what it now thinks is a threat.
Blood leaves your brain, goes to your arms and legs to make them strong so that you can run because running away, that's the way your body understands how to survive.
That's how our ancestors did it and so a lot of the processes that happen in the body are designed to make you stronger.
You'll experience these, probably not as strength, so they'll be experienced as like a racing heart or can't catch your breath or stomach pains, feeling nauseous, shaky, racing thoughts.
But they're actually all designed to keep you alive.
But these sensations, they are actually themselves a survival mechanism, so they're designed to keep you survive.
But because they're so weird and concerning, our mind then goes, wait, why am I having such weird thoughts?
Why am I having such unpleasant thoughts?
Why am I having all sensations that feel horrible in the body.
So, that becomes another threat.
Your mind goes, oh no, so now there's the threat of the meeting.
And now there's also the threat of what the heck's going on in my body.
Then the mind goes, oh, so there's now another threat, two threats.
Well, I know what to do with that.
Let me make you even stronger.
Let me add even more sensations.
Let me add even more thoughts.
That spiral grows, you know, kind of like compound interest. there's this threat that's being thought of, perceived, and then there's this defense in the body that's kind of all escalating together.
Most people don't even realize that that's what's going on because it happens so quickly and automatically and outside of conscious awareness.
And the same with me for so many years.
What do you actually do?
The thing that breaks this spiral is one simple word and it's indifference.
Those symptoms of anxiety actually a sign that you're getting stronger and ready to run and that's normal, but it feels uncomfortable.
The solution is when when you actually notice those sensations, is to sort of think, well, whatever, right, shrug, shrug it off.
Yeah, I understand what's going on, my body's getting stronger, it wants me to run, but I don't need to run here.
Yeah, I've got a racing heart, my stomach hurts.
Yeah. I'm feeling a bit sick, nauseous.
Who cares? So what?
Then the thing to do is to really shift your focus out to other people, to the outcome.
What are the points I want to make in this conversation?
What do I want them to understand?
What impact do you want to make?
So lastly, what I'll say on that is if you think of driving car, you want to focus on the road and the destination, you're focused out.
That's that sort of point on understanding what anxiety is and how to get it to stop.
Because it's a really complex mechanism.
The thing about complex mechanisms, which is good, is that they're actually easier to break.
So we think of this grandfather Glock, and it's got all these dials and cogs and everything.
To break that, we just need to take one tiny little cog out and then the whole thing just becomes like a heavy paperweight.
Definitely. Let's move to some other situations that I know for a fact people listening to this will be experiencing.
Let's imagine you are speaking in front of your colleagues but you find it very intimidating.
Perhaps it's just one person, maybe you have one boss or one peer or one team member that you just never feel comfortable speaking English in front of.
What would you say to people like that who really feel very intimidated speaking English in front of other people?
What's going on, usually, is those people, either they have some level of power or we kind of think of them, you know, think they do, we can almost feel kind of like childlike, right.
So you might be feeling almost, even though logically, you know, you're not a child, it almost might be feeling a bit like, oh, I feel a bit like they have some authority, because maybe they do, like literally.
But when you're a child, you're small, so you're looking up.
So this shift can be incredibly powerful, but it's something that you can do in your mind just as you're in that moment.
All you need to do is imagine them being smaller and you looking down on them.
So it's a very subtle shift, but it changes the power dynamic in your mind because if you think when you're a child and you're always looking up, that's subtly what the mind will kind of do in these type of situations.
you can actively override that and imagine you're looking down, and even you can even shrink them in your mind.
Imagine them smaller as they are.
What that does is logically might be like oh yeah that's a bit silly but your unconscious mind really gets...
it understands that because it's symbolic.
What about for example let's imagine maybe you're listening to this and you've got an English presentation tomorrow.
You've prepared of course because you always do, but you're feeling really anxious right now, just thinking about it, you're getting that feeling in your stomach where you know you're imagining how it's going to go.
What would you say to somebody in that situation, Ollie?
Yeah, I can definitely relate to that one.
And what's going on is that your mind has really zoomed in and made tomorrow's conversation almost like a pivotal moment in your life or career, that's how it's being understood, so that's why the mind is paying so much attention to it.
It's also not sure if you're going to survive it.
Logically you might be like yeah I'll probably make it to dinner tomorrow, you know, but your unconscious mind is like, am I going to survive this thing?
And that's why it's been causing this fear response.
And that's why it's very difficult when people just say things like, oh just stop thinking about it.
That's kind of like a nice thing to do, but it doesn't really work in practice if you've ever tried because the mind is thinking it's actually significantly dangerous.
So I'm not just gonna stop thinking about this thing if I think it's gonna eat me like a predator.
Show your mind that it might be significant, but you'll still be alive after it.
And that's what your deeper mind cares about.
so the solution would be to zoom out and remind yourself that this is actually one conversation in the grand timeline of your life and your career.
I'm not saying that it's not significant but it's it's one one conversation or one meeting and even if it doesn't go well there have been times in your life where things didn't go to plan but you still figured it out later, you know, so you it in a bigger context and so you can ask yourself, will this conversation still be significant in three months?
And maybe it will, but will it still be significant in three years?
Will it still be significant in 30 years?
So this helps put the conversation in the context of your life.
Also there's an added bonus, as you picture it far out in the future you're sort of showing your mind that you'll survive it because I know in moments where I've been really stressed about something sometimes I can't even think about what I'm going to do after, or I can't even think, I can't even start planning things later in the week, because the mind is so fixated on like are we even actually going to make it out of this thing alive, when you show your mind, like you force it to see look what are we having for dinner, you know, and then you plan out something later in the week what you're saying
to your mind at a sort of subtle deeper level is look we are actually going to have a life after this thing.
And so then that sort of showing the mind, ah, okay, you'll survive it.
That's interesting, because, like you said, there are some times when these conversations are important, especially in a workspace, perhaps you have a very important deal that you have to agree with the client, maybe there's a very important presentation that you have to give.
But even so, is it really that important, as in, will it matter in 30 years?
as you said, three years, or even three months, even just framing it like that really helps to take, again, the power away from this huge event that you're making in your mind doesn't need to be as big as that.
The thing is, if you are working in business, you're going to have so many presentations, so many conversations that are important.
If you make every single one of them this big, huge deal, it's just going to be exhausting, and maybe you feel like that now.
Maybe you just feel exhausted all the time from all the anxiety and all the stress that comes from these things.
So actually, particularly for people who are working in business, this zoom out idea is really important just to help you manage things a little bit better on a day -to -day basis.
Let's move on then, and we've talked about before maybe a presentation or conversation, but what about during, because this is one part where people are very frustrated.
I'm speaking in the meeting, I planned it, I prepared it, and then as soon as I start speaking, I just go completely blank.
Aside from recognizing that this is something that happens to everybody, especially when we're nervous because our brain isn't working the same as it is when we're relaxed, what advice or what steps would you give to somebody in that situation that's experiencing that a lot in English?
This is such a good one.
I don't think there's anyone who won't have at least had a moment of that, experiencing that.
If your mind's gone blank, it's because at a deeper level, you know, and even just sort of logically that there's a threat being thought of, perceived.
But your unconscious mind is thinking it's a lion, right?
It's thinking, I need to run.
So the is leaving your brain and it's going to your arms and legs to make them strong, and so that's why it's harder to think straight.
What I would say is, firstly, anchor in to the present moment.
Notice your feet on the ground, in your shoes and take a slow breath.
This might be practical, it might not be depending on the actual situation, but if you can you can do a subtle slow breath with a longer exhale.
When you do a longer exhale, as well as sort of sitting up straighter, standing up a bit taller, these are small signals that you communicate to your body and nervous system that you're safe.
The longer exhale, it shows rather than tells.
If you said calm down, that might be different to if you show your mind with a long exhale, I'm safe, because no rabbit in the wild is going to be breathing long and slow if there's a fox about to eat it.
So when that's going on the spotlight's on you, right?
And so it's almost like you're a deer in headlights, right?
And you've got, all you can see is that, oh, you know, the lights don't know which way to move.
The strategic way to handle this and to buy yourself time is to put the spotlight out.
The way you can do that is to actually ask a question.
You can pre -rehearse something, you just have like go to ones that you're like, yeah, that one.
So for example, is this making sense?
does anyone have any questions?
This isn't just a technique that you can use in a meeting this can be a life skill that you use anywhere if someone's making you uncomfortable and they're asking you a lot of things you can turn the spotlight out and ask them a question.
So when you're in the meeting, is this making sense?
Does anyone have any questions?
Are you following me so far?
It can even be rhetorical but it just buys you that bit of time gives you a moment to gather your thoughts so that you can then move on.
like, if you if you remember that when you're in your next meeting.
And it's like, oh, no, I can't remember what I was going to say.
I'm frozen up, you know, the more that that gets focused on, the more it can sort of feel like the lights are getting brighter.
Right. And so it's like, OK, so pause question, flip the spotlight out and that gives you time to gather your thoughts.
I really like that idea of asking the question.
I think that's a really useful, practical thing that people can take away to.
Yeah, it's just a practical way of really just shifting the spotlight away from you.
It gives you breathing room.
It just gives you that little bit of space.
And it's also quite useful.
Cause if, if people are like, oh, can you just explain that bit again, then already that's going to give you some, something to do.
You won't need to then directly remember what you were moving on to next.
You can kind of re -explain that bit or, or however it might work out.
Those things that people might say or even respond can prompt you into your next thing as well, I think, help you to, oh, that's where I was, that's what I was talking about.
So the last thing I wanted to talk about Olly is another experience that I see a lot, which is where somebody has had a really traumatic experience with English.
And this is something that has stuck with them for many years.
I'm going to give an example.
I was working with a client who told me that they had a really, really bad meeting.
This was several years ago.
They were still working in the same industry, but they had gone to a meeting and it really didn't go very well.
I do think that these kind of traumatic events where you have a really bad interview, for example, or you had a meeting in English and it went really, really, really badly.
It does create this traumatic experience that people carry with them when they go forward into their jobs or they continue communicating in English.
It's something they always remember and something they always come back to.
What advice would you give to somebody who has had that traumatic experience in the past and how they can maybe start to move forward from that?
When there's been a traumatic experience that's having an ongoing effect, there's two things that are happening in the mind.
The first one is that your whole mind hasn't got that you survived it.
So there may be levels of your mind that understand, yeah, I survived that.
Right, so you may be able to think, yeah, I know, I'm here right now so I definitely survived it, on a logical level perhaps.
But on some level if there's been ongoing effects from that then some level of your mind hasn't got that it's finished, that you survived it.
So that's the first thing and then the second thing is meaning about that event gets made in the moment and after and what I mean by meaning is they're perhaps stories or beliefs, fears.
So if we think of somebody who had like a panic attack before a meeting, or something, and that was that was a traumatic experience, then the meaning that might have been made, which I don't think they chose in any way, I think it got made outside of conscious awareness, is oh, or I'm weak, or I'm not cut out for meetings, or I'll never get a promotion if I, if I'm like, you know, like this.
So that meaning can also make suffering even more significant?
So there's two things.
And what I'd say sort of first as a preface to this is trauma can be incredibly difficult to address on your own and actually I wouldn't recommend it because it's not you know, it's complex, but one simple thing you can do is if you notice like a memory is coming up you know you haven't gone to find it but you just notice oh it's here, you know experiencing this memory, it's unpleasant, then think of a recent memory of fun or accomplishment.
So maybe you achieve something in your work, you know, you did a presentation that you were happy about or you had a fun moment with your family.
Go back and forth between those two images in your mind.
As you do that what you're doing is you're showing your mind that you reason that that didn't sort of process all the way through was because at that moment some level of your mind thought that you weren't going to get through it, thought that there wasn't going to be a tomorrow.
What you're doing by going between these two images is you're showing that nothing needs to be done about that thing that already happened, it's over, you survived it and here you are having this future moment of fun or achievement and so that shows the mind.
But it's it's it's definitely it's a it's a tricky thing to do by yourself and there's more that might be at play that's not so easy to just see, right?
Because we all have blind spots.
And so I would say to that, if that's something that's been affecting you a lot, like a memory that keeps flashing up or there's certain beliefs that you know about maybe what's possible for you your work, even, oh I can't go for that, that's not me, or you know.
Then that's something that I help my clients with often is to clear and update that so it's no longer impacting their future.
It's like installing a software update for the mind.
Once you've done that, it sort of feels natural it feels automatic it's like yeah, yeah this is how i am now.
For my clients they tend to be action takers, right?
Movers right? So their, their always their default is action and so when something gets in the way and slows them down it's like well what is that let's get that out of the way so that you can get back to the work that really matters that you are doing in this in this world.
Great, well we are going to leave the conversation there for today.
And Ollie, if you can, can you remind people where they can find you in case they want to check out what you do?
Yes, absolutely, you can go to my website, which is Ollie spelt O -L -I -Cook, spelt with an E at the end, coaching .com.
So Olliecookcoaching .com, and you can read a bit about my work there.
There'll even be, if you go to the coaching section, there'll even be a that you can press to book a 15 minute free chat with me about, you know, if you feel like this work would be a good fit for you where you are right now and the stuff that I've said makes sense, then we can have a quick chat to kind of clarify some things and see if it's a good fit for where you are.
I also have a visualization that's really useful for sort of getting clear on what's next for you, what your sort of goals and visions are, that's on my website as well under the resources section.
And that's free and you can check that out.
Thanks so much, Olly.
We really appreciate you coming on and it's been a great conversation.
Thank you, Anna. It's been a pleasure.
There you go, then I really hope you enjoyed that conversation with Ollie and that you were able to take something away even if it was just one or two things that you might want to try out and implement.
I'll leave all of Ollie's links below if you want to find where he is and as I said in the introduction I will be sending out in the newsletter this week a cheat sheet with a summary of all the tips Ollie talked about that you could maybe put on your desk or You could have it in one of your notepads or diaries that you can come back to if you're having a week where you've got a lot of meetings and you're really nervous, or there's something very important that you've got on your plate and you're feeling very anxious.
So I'll be sending that out in the newsletter on Friday.
If you want to get that, click the link in the description box to become a free member of Confident Business English.
Thank you so much as always for squeezing me into your very busy week and I look forward to seeing you next week.
Take care, bye.
