Ted Audio Collective.
HBR presents... Hi everyone you're listening to a bonus episode of After Hours.
I'm Yang Mi. I'm Mir.
And I'm Felix. So this is day, I don't know what, of us spending a lot of time in our individual homes.
And judging from the video screen I'm looking at the two of you.
I think you've stopped shaving.
There is some serious, serious 6 o 'clock, 10 o 'clock shadow going.
This is all just an effort to look more like Felix.
Which is my goal. Yes, but you know, I will always be five days ahead of you.
In so many ways Felix.
I mean beard wise, just beard wise.
So the good news is we all still look somewhat respectable.
We're all wearing daytime clothing and we're not showing up in our pajamas still.
I actually dressed up for this episode, I have to keep that.
Well you look good.
Actually this is going to be a nice way to welcome the weekend, this little bonus episode.
Because we are going to...
Be sharing some of the stories that we've received from listeners which have been absolutely spectacular.
So in the spirit of social connection we want to share some of those stories.
Which have really lightened our moods and kept us happy during this crazy time.
Perfect, that way. Okay, so in a recent newsletter we put a call out for people to write us back with some of their stories.
And so a huge, huge thank you to the many, many people who responded.
It's amazing, amazing, amazing.
Especially at this time where we feel so disconnected to kind of hear these stories.
I think really helps us feel a lot more connected to all of you.
So it's with great pleasure that I share with you the first one.
This is from Chris from Melbourne, Australia.
So he's a long time listener and he writes with less a story and more of an observation.
And his observation was, remember, he's from Australia.
Over the summer, which for them is November through January, we had horrific fires that wiped out many, many towns.
We lost people and millions of animals.
We also saw the greatest human spirit of generosity, charity, togetherness.
Out of the tragedy we all got a little closer.
Fast forward one month and I am seeing the worst of humanity in the way we are purchasing.
Running over the backs of elderly people, hoarding, and even organized crime buying to sell on black markets.
I would be super interested in the consumer behavior and psychology of this flip.
Keep in mind we are at 1 % fatality rate with COVID.
How would society hang together if it were a 10 % fatality rate?
What do you guys think of that?
Isn't that such a fascinating juxtaposition?
It's totally fascinating.
And I think it is so easy to get discouraged.
You know, we all saw the images.
People socializing at the beach, not thinking that they're likely to bring back the virus into their communities.
People hoarding product that is really needed.
One of the things that I often try to think about is, what's the relative visibility of cooperative, great behavior versus really selfish behavior.
For every one hoarder out there, you see the person leave with 18 ,000 rolls of toilet paper.
There's someone who took two rolls, and you don't notice that really, and you don't see that.
And so I think hoarding is particularly discouraging because it's only the negative behavior that is so visible that everybody focuses on.
And we forget that 95 % of the people, they actually took the two rolls.
And they're okay. And so I often try to protect myself by focusing on the part of the behavior that is not so easily visible, but that is actually encouraging, just like what he shared with us about the behavior during the fires.
I think it is one of these things where all of humanity is on display at these times.
And I think in particular, the thing I take away from this story, because I've witnessed some things that are similar, is what's unique about this crisis in a way is the fear is so diffuse and undefined, and the duration of the event is so unclear that it's giving rise to, not just bad behavior, but silly
behavior. But there's something about this crisis and its ill -defined nature, especially over duration, over time, that makes it give rise to people doing things that are both horrible and really silly.
I mean, I understand why it is like the worst of humanity.
I get that. But it's also, I think, just a reflection of how scared people are by the undefined nature of this.
Yeah. The one thing I would add here, too, is that public behavior is so contagious.
I remember being in the store earlier on, and I walked in, and I was so stunned to see all of these people with so much toilet paper.
I was also confused.
And so I turned to my husband.
I said, wait, so should we be buying a lot of toilet paper?
I mean, it's contagious, and if you don't watch yourself, you can find yourself getting sucked into it.
But the converse is also true.
So I've also been in stores or in lines where people are jostling, and you see someone being super kind to the person in front of them or behind them in a public way.
And suddenly, everybody sort of snaps to it and starts to be a little bit more generous, a little bit more patient, a little bit more kind as well.
And so I think this stuff tends to be really contagious.
By the way, have you heard of the toilet paper shortage of the early 70s?
No, I have not. Which is actually a hilarious story.
So this goes back to a famous host in the US, Johnny Carson.
He read somewhere in some newspaper that as a result of the big recession in the 1970s, there might be a toilet paper shortage.
And he cracks a couple of jokes.
And sure enough, before you know it, there is a really serious shortage.
And it has no reflection in reality whatsoever.
And in the end, he had to come on TV and apologize and explain that he didn't want to be remembered for the toilet paper shortage of 1973.
It has led to a lot of humor.
I have to tell you, I saw this little clip of Dave Chappelle.
I can't really describe it, but he was trying to get behind the psychology of all his toilet paper buying and what he thought was the logic of it.
Again, a little bit not appropriate for this podcast, but you should check it out.
It's so funny. I need a minute to Google Dave Chappelle toilet paper.
Just give me a second.
I'll be right back.
So this is from an HBS grad whose husband is Italian.
And she writes, With international flights almost stopped.
My husband's grandmother passed away on Saturday.
Only one member of the family was allowed to visit and stay with her on her last night.
The rest said goodbye through an iPhone.
There will be no funeral and no one can pay their last respects in person.
She will be cremated alone in 10 days as the crematoriums are full in their religion.
There are thousands of families in Italy and the world going through this right now.
It's heartbreaking for the family, but still they carry on.
His mother will return to work later this week in an essential service.
She is 66 with preexisting conditions.
On the more positive side, there was a listing for 300 open doctor positions in Italy, over 7 ,000 applied.
Wow. Wow. That is gut wrenching.
I have to say that in my way of staying connected, I talk to my sister almost every day and we reflect on the odd feeling of feeling somewhat, I wouldn't say grateful, but just thinking that our parents aren't here.
And if they were, it would be so much more complicated and these people's lives who are sandwiched between children and parents and that life and just thinking about elderly people who are sick.
I think we both feel relieved of the fact that we don't have our immediate parents alive to worry about in that way.
And it sounds like a strange thing to say, but the thought of what is going on in Italy is just heart wrenching.
And then of course, we see that something similar in the United States, which is in New York City.
We've seen retired doctors volunteer to come back into service at some remarkable rate.
And so it is all of humanity.
But I think this inability to be there at these critical moments is really, it's terrible.
I saw this remarkable interview with a young doctor who described how at the very beginning of the crisis, when we thought that younger people were relatively safe, that she wasn't so worried about going in, her hospital doesn't have enough protective material.
And so she thought, well, you know, even if I get the infection, it's not going to be so terrible.
And then she talked about now finding out that actually younger people are not quite as much at risk as older people, but the risk is much, much higher, I think, than many people realized early on.
And as a result, she moved her family to the suburbs.
And there was not a minute when she thought that she wouldn't go in, knowing full well that there wasn't enough protective gear.
And yet that was her duty.
And she was meant to do this.
And I have to say, I sat there.
That's the kind of sense of duty and obligation that so many of the people in healthcare have at this moment in time.
I mean, it's unbelievable.
As you say me here, it's sort of like the best of humanity.
Yeah. The full scope of humanity.
You really see it come out.
This actually is a really nice segue to the next letter because I think it really underscores this.
This is from Benjamin from Phoenix, Arizona.
And he's an ER physician working in the front line.
And most of his story is just about the preparation that they are going through.
And he writes, in the midst of this crisis, I'm witnessing our leadership coming together in an unprecedented way to combat this.
Command centers are being set up with daily communications and briefings so we can position ourselves to manage this ever -changing situation.
The message is clear.
We are all in this together.
And then he talks about how he knows there is so much fear, not just in this country, but all around the world.
And so he has a message for anybody who's feeling fearful.
And he says, for whoever is reading this, my takeaway is that no matter what happens, I, along with the rest of the care teams across the country, will be there for you throughout this crisis.
That is incredible.
So beautiful, isn't it?
But I think that's so representative of the mindset of so many people on the front lines of this.
Well, it's also, I think what some people have come to realize during this time is some of these occupations that we just don't pay enough attention to, teachers and doctors, as being so foundational to our lives.
And I'm not trying to make this into a silver lining, but there is this virtue, which is we can come to fully appreciate the social value that they all provide, because it's really stunning.
It really is. If I can add a little comment that's sort of a side tangent.
Can we stop calling it a war?
It seems to me every time we need to rally, we need to stand together, we need to accomplish something really difficult, we resort to calling it a war, the war on poverty, the war on drugs.
It's not a war. It's something that we're trying to do that is not touched first and foremost by negativity.
It's touched by social considerations that we watch out for one another.
It's a big communal effort, including the heroes who work in the healthcare sector.
And I just wish we wouldn't connect the war metaphor with every time we as a society have to come together.
And it's really important, Felix, because I think when you frame it as a war, you also can make mistakes.
The war on drugs got carried away because we thought about it as a military action.
It's not just, I think, unhelpful and maybe overly martial, but it can actually lead to mistakes being made in terms of policymaking.
So yeah, I think that's a great point.
Okay, you guys ready for the next one?
This is John from Silicon Valley, who is working from home.
What he's doing now is a very simple thing.
He said, I'm trying to make a conscious effort as I'm zipping down the road to smile, nod, wave or say hi to people.
I see walking their dogs, et cetera, trying to seek relief from being cooped up all day.
90 % of the time the other party returns a positive greeting.
He's probably running to you, me here, on the street.
Yes, must be. But I think this is so important, right?
I think it's fantastic because I think we forget this, but the broader social glue that holds us together.
Are these kind of quasi anonymous interactions which are fleeting, but can be enormously rewarding.
And so we should really be conscious of this at this time of great fear and distrust.
It is costless to exchange some pleasantry in an anonymous way with somebody and connect in that process.
And remember how we talked on an earlier episode about, I think the example was sick leave, some of the things that we now do as a matter of course, maybe we can save those intuitions and keep them even after the crisis is over.
And I think this is one of them.
It's just the most natural thing to acknowledge another human being if you encounter someone.
These little things, if we can really take these opportunities and change behavior for the longer term, I think that would be amazing.
By the way, looking someone in the eye, making eye contact and smiling, it's a little bit of a secret weapon.
It really is. When you are on the receiving end of that, it's very hard not to smile back.
It really is. Okay.
Oh, this was a good one.
This is Simon from Seattle.
He is a long time after hours listener and a first generation Asian immigrant living in Seattle, Washington.
Seattle, of course, one of the first outbreaks of coronavirus here in the US.
And he talks about how there's a large Asian community presence in the area and how the entire community became quite upset by references to the Chinese virus as opposed to calling it COVID -19 or coronavirus.
These comments and tweets have brought us fears as we're afraid of our kids getting bullied at school and ourselves being targeted by racist and xenophobic activities on the streets.
However, I'm deeply moved and proud of how we responded to this.
For the past couple of weeks, the local Chinese and Asian communities have held many fundraising events to help local hospitals.
And then he attaches a screenshot of a local news reporter tweeting about the tens of thousands of masks donated to Seattle Children's Hospital by local Chinese communities.
That story, once again, is sort of good and bad of this.
The part that makes it so hurtful to talk about the virus as a Chinese virus is that you have a sense it comes from a terrible place.
It's always been interesting to me.
We call it the Spanish flu.
No one thinks, oh, my God, like, am I somehow, I don't know, is that like an inappropriate expression?
But the difference is, does it come from a place of racist sentiments, of xenophobia?
And that's why it's such a problem.
And so you see it in many ways in this crisis.
It's people's intentions matter so much.
If it comes from a good place, it doesn't matter that much.
The moment you have a sense that you're using the crisis as a means to express a sentiment that you always harbored, it becomes really terrible.
There was really internment of Japanese Americans and really one of the most shameful episodes in American history.
And if you think back to 9 -11, one of the remarkable moments was President Bush really reaching out to the Muslim American community, who was otherwise very afraid.
And often it's manifested so funny, young me, this story about the Chinese community donating the masks.
That's a wonderful story, obviously, but it may also be a reflection of their anxiety, you know, which is, I remember post 9 -11, you would drive around and if you had a Muslim taxi driver, he would go out of his way to put a US flag in his car, you know, as if to signal something, because he was feeling so insecure.
And it's really, it's terrible to engage in the blame game, but given our history, we should just be so cautious about that.
Because it really has a horrible historical resonance.
Yeah, that one hits close to home.
So, oh, this next letter, this is from Abhishek, who used to live in Boston, but now lives in India.
And he was talking about how recently, Prime Minister Modi gave a 15 -minute speech, where he urged everyone to just stay inside.
And he said what was stunning about that was a speech from the Prime Minister literally stopped a country of 1 .3 billion people.
And then he writes, I'm personally not a big fan of Modi, but as a public health physician, it is indeed very fascinating to see how he is using his fan following and his political skills to contain the spread in a country where people are not that educated.
As someone who has studied public health in the USA, my logical evidence -based mind would have never thought of something like this.
What do you guys think of that?
I guess I have two reactions to that.
One is, it is indeed fascinating to find that different parts of the world that you might have thought of as quote -unquote underdeveloped or whatever terminology that sometimes people use turn out to be very sophisticated when it comes to thinking about some of these crises.
And countries that you might have thought of as very wealthy and developed have really struggled.
And so there's a sense in which these responses have brought out things about countries that are not easily associated with economic growth.
On the other hand, it is also the case that India is a very tricky situation right now.
There has not been much testing, and I think politicians there have used the crisis in different ways.
So, I think what happens in the next week or two in India will be so important because we will now start to see more testing and we will see if it is spreading in a way.
But I think his measures hopefully will do something to make sure that India does not turn into what it could be, which would be a really kind of first order disaster.
But I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful like Abhishek is hopeful.
If you needed any evidence that tone from the top really matters, there are just so many beautiful examples right now.
I mean, the shift in mindset when Chancellor Merkel came out saying that 60, 70, 80 % of Germans will be even.
And, you know, the next day is a completely different day.
Leadership in so many ways is just the most potent weapon we have in a crisis like this.
And the simple things really matter.
Angela Merkel, she not only said it, but then she actually visited a supermarket and modeled how you should grocery shop while social distancing and had photos taken of her and how she paid and everything.
She really just in one photo opportunity communicated to the entire country how everybody should be acting.
So that was really fantastic.
And it continues to this day.
If you look at the press conferences of Governor Cuomo of New York, you see four or five officials and they sit really far apart.
You look at the Washington conferences with the president and there's 18 people so that everybody is on camera.
Yeah, exactly. They couldn't be closer to one another.
What are you signaling?
So true. Yeah. Okay.
We're almost out of time.
Let me get a couple more in here really quickly.
Olivier in Vancouver, and he's decided to try to make the best of the situation to avoid getting cabin fever.
He writes, I've decided to start an online community hosting online activities so that people can get a sense that they are not alone.
Last night I hosted a game night, had eight friends join in to play the Jackbox series.
Yeah. Tonight we're hosting a Netflix party where we'll all watch a movie together and chat about it.
I've got plans for a karaoke from home night, a 15 minute living room training session.
I'm hoping to try and grow this community and have people pay what they want or can for those still working.
My goal is to try and support my artist friends, consultant friends, et cetera.
Isn't that fabulous.
That's great. That letter is so representative of the many, many listeners who wrote it and just describing what they're trying to do to make the best of this situation.
I have one more that I have to read to you that we can close with.
This is Miles from Philadelphia and he too is trying to make the best of his situation by keeping yourself busy and motivated.
He's purchased CFA study materials.
He's trying to get ready for his level one exam.
And when he's not studying, he of course spends his time cleaning his apartment or doing the dishes while listening to after hours.
And then he writes, this is so funny.
On a lighter note, I've heard that we are about three weeks away from finding out everyone's true hair color.
That is so good. Which is so good.
We are out of time with these letters, but thank you again for everyone who wrote in.
We obviously didn't have time to read everybody's stories, but from time to time, we'll continue to try to make a little time to read a sample of them.
But thanks again. Thank you, guys.
OK, so picks. I'm going to go first because mine actually is inspired by Olivier in Vancouver.
So when he wrote about hosting a Netflix party, I was trying to figure out what is that.
So what I discovered is that Netflix Party is actually an extension that you install in your browser.
And once you put it on there, it enables you to watch Netflix together with your friends.
And the way it works is, you know, everybody installs it in their browser and then someone is the host and you can set it up.
So only you control the remote control or you can share the remote control.
You send out an invite, people jump in and then you're all watching together and you can chat with each other as you watch.
That is great. So that's my recommendation.
Netflix Party Chrome extension.
I'm sending it to the two of you tonight.
We're going to watch four romantic comedies in a row of my choose.
Thank you very much.
Oh, my God. Can we drink?
Oh, yes, of course we can drink, but not too much because I want you paying attention to the movies.
Yes, there will be a quiz at the end.
We know. Yes, there will be.
OK, what do you got?
So for many people, they find solace at this time in cooking.
But I think to myself cooking shows are way better than cooking.
I heard from a former student who is also a listener of the show, Yuki, and she reminded me of one of my favorite YouTube channels, which is the Bon Appetit TV channel.
So Bon Appetit is a fantastic magazine, but they have a YouTube channel where they have a bunch of different, really good chefs doing really fun things.
One feature I love in particular is this chef, Chris, who is blindfolded and has to smell and taste a dish and then recreate it.
And it's just brilliant.
And so they have a bunch of different segments.
They have like ice cream tastings.
They have celebrities come on and they try to cook something with the celebrities, but they can't actually see each other when they do it.
So it's kind of mindless, fun, food oriented content.
So my recommendation is the great Bon Appetit video channel on YouTube.
That is such a good recommendation.
My guess is that people are spending a lot of time eating while they're stuck at home, right?
Yeah, for sure. Yes.
I also have a recommendation that takes your mind far, far away and that the recommendation is a Chinese social influencer.
Her name is Li Zijie and she grew up in the countryside, then moved to the city and moved back to a really rural part of China to take care of her grandmother.
And once she was back home, she started showing these beautiful, stunning images of rural China.
And of course, these images are not what life in rural China is truly like.
They're sort of the urbanized version of when you dream, oh my God, what would it be like to live out in the countryside and grow my own berries and do everything from hand?
And the videos are just amazing.
So one episode, I just have to describe quickly, like she's making beer and you think, okay, so that's sort of, you know, you see how beer is made.
No, no, no, no, no.
You don't understand her making beer starts by going to the field, cutting down the stocks of wheat.
Okay. And then we're going through milling the grain, converting the mash, boiling the wort and so on and so on.
She wears these beautiful dresses.
One of the funny comments is that no matter what back bending labor she does, she never sweats.
She always like perfect makeup, that perfect rural life.
So if you're sitting in your small city apartment that every now and then feels a little confining, here is the YouTube channel.
Her name is Mitsuchi.
You should follow her.
She'll take your mind off everything that occupies you at this difficult moment in time.
That's great. That's so great.
This is why I never go camping because I don't like camping.
And then people show me a photo of camping and I said, that's not what actually camping is like.
That is hilarious because one of the comments on YouTube that you see every now and then is the fact that there's no mosquitoes in her life.
Yeah, they've been airbrushed away.
Okay, so that's it for this episode.
Have a great weekend, everybody.
This is After Hours from the HBR Podcast Network.
We'll see you next week.
