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Welcome back to Point of Origin.
Today, we pay homage to coffee's African origins and roots from East Africa to the East Bay.
Up first with coffee entrepreneur K.
Bakante of Red Bay Coffee, he discusses his journey from pioneering African -American coffee roaster to, in his own words, the largest Black -owned coffee company in the world.
And Burundi, Janine Neonzima Aroian teaches us what makes Burundi an ideal coffee supplier.
And finally, we chat with Doug Hewitt of 1951 Coffee in Oakland, California, a nonprofit organization providing job training for refugees.
Today on Point of Origin, it's black coffee.
We find ourselves, you know, really situated in this specialty coffee movement where, you know, things are really growing and a lot of awareness around origins of coffee.
And there was maybe 10, 15 years ago, the sort of so -called third wave of coffee really came to the forefront with companies like Stumptown and Blue Bottle.
On the walls of Red Bay Coffee HQ in Fruitvale, California, is a huge living sculpture of Africa by way of hanging plants in the shape of the continent's outline.
In the background is the hum of roasting machines embellished by the ambient buzz of a diverse cross -section of the Bay Area community.
Red Bay has never just been a quick stop for coffee and always a hub for the neighborhood.
Here, Kaba is explaining coffee in the way that it is most often talked about within and around the industry, using the nomenclature of waves.
What I'm seeing emerging now is maybe a fourth wave of coffee that's really addressing not just the quality of coffee, but in addition to that, the movement around it, the really the impact that we're having on the environment and on various communities.
And when you talk about this movement, can you summarize what this sort of third and fourth wave coffee movement is for people who might not be aware with that?
Sure. The third wave coffee movement really began, like I said, about 15 years ago, and it was around a couple of principles.
It was around roasting coffee to its sweet spot, not over roasting it, trying to roast a lot lighter than it had historically been to really reveal more of the nuances of the coffee and how it reflects the terroir of the origin, where it was grown, the environment.
environment um so and and really being a lot more transparent about the origins where these you know uh particular farms came from these micro lots also the third wave had to do with in the cafes kind of a certain aesthetic coffee so that's a rough summary of what sort of the third wave was it was it was post starbucks which was you know kind of like a second wave if if you you will.
One other thing that was not necessarily part of the third wave, but it was just how it was, which is it's, you know, very white elite, elitist space in terms of these kind of fancy specialty coffee shops.
So this next wave, you know, really just kind of taking form is just you're seeing a lot more folks who are reflecting some of these origin countries, whether it's, You know, folks from the Latinx community or African -Americans participating.
But really, the net is getting wider and more people are starting to enter into this space.
Actually, 2018 was the first time that they just gathered some data where it showed that African -Americans are the fastest growing consumers of specialty coffee.
Wow. You know, so, and coffee overall has sort of flatlined in terms of growth.
But it's, so there's that whole movement, what we're tapping into, right?
I mean, let's be real, though.
You're not really tapping into it.
You kind of are the movement, though, right?
I feel like I'm being kind of modest right now because you're talking about this burgeoning group of black coffee drinkers.
Yeah. I mean, I was, I came in on the third wave, but you know, like you, you are the, uh, the black coffee roaster in the States.
Right. So, uh, yeah, yeah.
I was saving that for you.
That's my job is to let people get full context.
No, for sure. And that's why I want to talk to you, you know, because it is, you guys started in 2014 and you know, it's, we're, we're now five years in, you guys are continuing to grow.
And I have, in my time in Oakland, very much experienced the amount of enthusiasm and excitement, especially black and brown folks in Oakland have felt around your brand and the quality of the coffee that you are selling.
But how did you, as a black man who is an artist and entrepreneur, I mean, you had a restaurant in Berkeley, how did you find your way into the coffee game?
And once you landed there, how much of your self -awareness as a black man in the space has influenced the way that you've run and grown Red Bay?
Like a lot of people in the coffee industry, didn't necessarily seek out to be in the coffee industry, but kind of came in the back door, so to speak.
So that was new to me.
But just just having impact, hiring, building a team, helping support people, it was just really fascinating path.
So that's kind of how I got into it.
Through the arts, into the coffee, the coffee really took off, open a second coffee shop.
Now I got two coffee shops, it's time to tap into some of the relationships I've had established around the world as a photojournalist, traveling to many African and Central American and Caribbean coffee origin countries so I wanted to kind of cut out the middleman and start sourcing my own coffee and so that was a whole you know experience unto itself in terms of you know just my path on teaching myself on how to roast coffee and kind of enter into that level of the game and it's a good point that you mention about these countries of origin because one of the weird things about coffee, or maybe
not that weird at all, is that most of the countries that are growing and producing the coffee are exactly the opposite of the countries who are importing the coffee and consuming the coffee.
So when you moved into the idea of roasting and having a little bit more of a stake in the supply chain, how much was that on your mind when you made that decision uh well it's something i was very aware of you know like i mentioned in these sort of third wave coffee shops you know just the overall uh culture was very homogenous uh this is something that you know white folks have adopted and uh and fetishized you know especially coffee along with a lot of other components of black culture coffee started started in africa ethiopia to be specific you know when the more i was learning about the history
of coffee and the origins of coffee and it just seemed to go against the grain of the popular misconception that coffee started in italy or seattle or columbia or something so that was uh something that was important to me you know it was actually even tapped into some of the work i did as a photojournalist which was wanting to sort of reveal some of the stories in africa uh in african diaspora that were i think you know misconceived images and understandings of of africa right where we're it's not just a desolate place with misery and you know suffering but you know vibrant rich cultures with lush
lanes and you know there's hard times too but as a photographer and artist i wanted to i was compelled to show and tell some of those stories I'm seeing more and more entrepreneurs of color getting into coffee it's a 50 billion dollar a year industry so this is an enormous industry of technology, education, training, importing, exporting for people who are not up on coffee coffee who can't really understand or rationalize like a $3 or $4 cup of coffee.
Can you talk about some of the distinguishing characteristics from some of the regions that you all work with and how that has an impact on premium coffee?
If you think about the spectrum of quality and prices that come with an industry like like wine, coffee, for really specialty coffee emerged as a thing.
It was really just the cheapest coffee, roasted, really dark, so it's all sort of a sameness and predictability of mediocrity.
And it was cheap and, you know, and it had caffeine and that was sort of the thing.
So as the industry started to kind of specialize and try to elevate the quality, You know, the level of investment, the level of labor that goes into it, you know, the complexity, you know, of specialty coffee is as much or greater than than wine.
The special thing is once you start sort of exploring outside of lattes and cappuccinos and flavored drinks.
So, yeah, I would just encourage everyone who's listening to this, you know, next time you're at a coffee shop and you have a few extra minutes, you know, order a pour -over and just talk to the barista about some of the different options.
And, you know, you may pay a dollar more and wait a few more minutes.
it's uh but uh go for it and invest invest in that all right on and what is next for red bay coffee signed a lease on a on a building in south la and we're just broke ground this week on the construction of it and uh yeah it's very exciting you know so what we're building is a public roastery.
But our spaces are also open to the public.
They're cafes, they're venues for doing all sorts of events.
So, that's one of the things that distinguishes Red Bay Coffee from most coffee companies.
We create platforms for community engagement.
We did 200 events last year in Oakland at our public a grocery there so this will be our second public grocery and uh it's you know 11 000 square feet um and there will be you know design there will be art you know events around you know you know uh independent films or you know fundraisers for 50 black women running for political office conferences around educating the black child to live music and you know pole dancing demonstrations.
It's really a reflection of the community.
It's really a manifestation of what is around us in the community.
RedBear Coffee is the largest Black -owned coffee company in the world, and we're making our impact.
We're doing what we do in terms of storytelling and marketing to make specialty coffee more approachable.
In terms of know, really how it's, you know, thinking about some of these relationships, you know, what I have seen mostly in the industry, it's a lot more sort of baristas of color, right?
So it's visibly you're seeing it change on the very front lines.
Not as much in the boardrooms and ownership and really executive leadership of some of the more competitive companies.
I'm not really seeing it there yet.
I'm seeing more and more entrepreneurs of color getting into coffee.
It's a 50 billion dollar a year industry and there's just such a vast array of career paths and opportunities.
I'm always encouraging folks to to you know explore them.
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I was born and raised in Burundi, which is Central East Africa.
It's a very small, tiny country, and we call it the heart of Africa, as a matter of fact.
But landlocked, sharing borders with Rwanda to the north, Tanzania to the east, and then Congo to the west. Burundi native Janine Nyanzima Aroian is the owner and founder of JNP Coffee.
Yeah, so Burundi is a producing, it's a coffee producing country, actually, which most people, you know, not everybody knows about it.
But we didn't drink coffee actually when I was growing up in my own home.
We actually drank more tea.
Tea is more like the, you know, the culture, you know, in Burundi.
And coffee mainly was used for as a cash crop.
In 2012, Janine founded JNP Coffee and has since won multiple awards for her specialty coffees and development strategies, which have consistently prioritized participation and equity for women working at the point of origin.
Prioritizing gender equality, supporting financial literacy and education, plus development of leadership skills, Janine today is the only woman who is a majority shareholder in a large Burundian coffee conglomerate.
Burundi is a very small country.
It's actually the size of Maryland state.
state. And then because it's so small, also, there is a scarcity of land, there is 11 million people living in Burundi.
And really, we kind of like live on top of each other, if you might say, because of, you know, how small the country is, and also what can be produced from that country.
So when we really talk about coffee that's produced from Burundi, it's very little compared compared to how much coffee is produced in places like, you know, Brazil.
So because of that, the opportunity actually to be able to make the coffee from Burundi very special and very unique is there because it's not overwhelming.
We don't use machinery, you know, you know, the cherries are picked by hand doing the harvest season every year by the farmers.
And so, you know, the labor work, it's very intensive.
This is something also some most people don't understand is the amount of of time and energy that goes into really making that cup of perfect cup of coffee that you end up consuming every morning that we all look forward to.
So but you know, labor wise, it is it is very intensive, because as I said, the coffee is picked by hand, there's no machineries.
And it's it's delivered to the nearest, you know, wet meal.
And usually, that's about an hour or so of walk.
So So most of the pickers, you know, would actually deliver on the head.
Some of them were, you know, fortunate to have a bicycle.
They were actually put on a bicycle so it can be delivered to the nearest, you know, wet meal on bicycle.
And then once the coffee actually gets to the wet meal, there's like another level of process.
You know, there's this flotation process that the coffee had to go through.
And after the flotation, which means the good things, they take it out.
The bad things, they throw it away.
And then after that, the coffee goes into a machinery, which is called the depulping, which removes the skin of the cherry, and then it goes into the soaking overnight, soaking of the cherries into tanks until what they call the mucilage, to be able to remove that mucilage on the beans.
And from there, they wash it and then it goes on to what they call the raised African beds.
and that is like a 30 days time to really turn and turning and moving and covering of the of the of the bean until it dries out and then goes to the dry meal then which goes through the last process before i get export so it's it's very labor intense uh but because of the nature of the country being small and the amount of coffee that's being produced in Burundi it's small relative to what goes on in other bigger countries or major countries, which also is also, in my point of view, is an opportunity to really make the Burundi coffee just amazingly, exceptionally well.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Because it's so small, it actually gives you a larger opportunity in the global marketplace because it's a more specialty item.
For me, another reason I really got into more coffee and left the corporate world was the ability, as I said, about this special beans from Burundi, the ability that we actually could utilize this bean to alleviate people out of poverty.
In 2008, before starting J &P Coffee, Janine started a nonprofit called Burundi Friends International, an economic empowerment initiative to create sustaining communities in Burundi.
In the last four years alone, J &P has paid over a quarter million dollars in the form of bonuses and premiums, which encourage quality and ensure economic sustainability.
So I actually use this as a way to kind of empower, you know, farmers in Burundi to kind of provide them, you know, an opportunity to be able to get the extra, you know, income and by incentivizing and empowering the farmers to produce the high quality, you know, cup of coffee, because we always go back and provide what we call the second payment in the form of a premium, then again, to encourage them to continuously, you know, produce a high quality, you know, coffee.
But in terms of, so I'm involved from everything, you know, as I say, from, you know, dealing with farmers, you know, I get calls from farmers all the time that we deal with to, you know, dealing with wet meals.
and we also happen to also have some shares in some of the wet mills which is the processing you know centers in Boondi to making sure that every single time I always tell people it's like every cherries that we provide is J &P coffee we have been involved from that share from the time we get picked from the tree to the time we actually get delivered to the wet mill we just follow it all the way through.
As an owner I get involved from you know farmers wanting to work with us and figuring out we want to work with and how we're going to support them to making sure that you know the coffee we select the right coffee and then we bring forward the right coffee to exporting as well in fact right now as we are speaking, I just finishing putting some coffee on trucks that are leaving Burundi and we have some containers that have already left you know the port of Tanzania heading you know to the state so this is the whole all taking, talking about the whole picture of what I get involved from knowledge,
just, you know, what coffee, what regions that, you know, coffee come from, but also really getting the coffee, you know, move smoothly and safely from Burundi to getting to port in the U .S., to then finally getting to our roasters, you know, throughout the country, in this case in the U .S., but also in other parts of the world, because we also work in Europe and Asia.
Mm -hmm. Janine, can you help us understand Burundi and its coffee from a terroir perspective?
Very good question.
So first of all, I think, as I had mentioned earlier, Burundi is absolutely a gorgeous country.
And I didn't know myself how beautiful it is, actually, until I went back, which is very interesting.
But it's very hilly, and coffee usually grow from anywhere around 6 ,000 feet above sea level and the weather is very cool in the countryside where the coffee grows and usually on hills and the soil itself, it's a volcanic soil it's actually kind of a reddish soil which is very good when it comes to providing the right nutrients for the cherries so it also helps to hold the water very well on the cherries and it is also produced like the right ingredients that the cherries need to grow and grow well.
Burundi's volcanic soil and modest annual rainfall contribute to a perfect environment for growing coffee.
Volcanic soil is rich in nutrients such as nitrogen, which coffee plants really, really need.
Burundi's Arabica coffee grows at a high altitude, which contributes to the bright acidity, sweetness, and complexity of these full -bodied coffees.
And then there's the sunshine, so it's cooler during the day, early in the morning, kind of like the Bay Area actually climates, if I might say, and then during the middle of the day, the sun just shines on the trees and on the cherries, which is something that also helps the cherries to grow very well.
And then at nighttime, it goes down to cooling, which also preserve and help you know the cherries you know grow properly um so yeah so very high elevation um and also uh the uh the volcanic soil of of burundi and also the cooler weather um and also being able to uh grow on the hills really helps i guess the coffee from burundi very unique and and and burundi also have like as when you talk about terroir there are different areas, there's like the northern part of Burundi which is, you know, share borders with Rwanda, which is the Kayanza and there is the central part of Burundi which also, it's
another different terroir when it, you know, comes to a coffee coming from one area to another one, I think you find, in my point of view, I find more lemony, citrus from one side, and I find more chocolate and spices from the other side, from the other part of the country, and then there is actually a new terroir we also are trying, we have recently discovered, which is more on the north southeast part of the country that's more kind of like crisp clean you know in terms of like the the taste notes that you can find into the coffee and in additional to this you know a sparkling acidity that you
usually would expect to find in some very well prepared coffee from Burundi.
Wow god I love it. So it's it's very interesting because I also think that you know each coffee in my point of view, each of the different terroir coffee, Auvar coffee has a home.
So they always tell you, even like, you know, high -end coffee to just not so high -end coffee, each coffee has a home.
But it really, I think that's, we are very lucky to do from the fact that, you know, I really, I choose who I sell my coffee to most of the times.
So I do know people people who understand we're going to you know treat the coffees well who also are aligned with our value because above and beyond just the quality which this is the first and foremost you know for my business and has always been that I always you know strive for you know companies also have to be aligned in terms of like our values and and what we understand so I tried to kind of like you know pick you know based on that and because to me producing the great coffee from Burundi and bring the great coffee from Burundi to the world market is so wonderful.
But what else are we doing for the people?
And what are the politics of land in Burundi?
Because you mentioned earlier, it's a really densely populated country.
So what is the relationship among the citizens and the farmers?
So the political dynamics around the land is very interesting because I'm chuckling because one of my beliefs and one of the things that my company is very well known for is the the fact that we empower women um and the reason that we have like a very small program on empowering women is because women in Burundi usually you know did not have right to own land um so if um you know uh you know if a husband or father a man who's like a head of the of the of the of the household passed away um the wife does not acquire ownership of the land however women in Burundi are expected and also do, are the one
who do work the land, they work the land, they are the one who provide for, you know, who do all the work, you know, in the house, but they're not necessarily the one who end up by, you know, owning that land.
So, in most, you know, cases in Burundi, when the husband passed away, the sons, you know, get ownership of the land.
And then in this case, if he doesn't have the sons, then, you know, Maybe the brother gets ownership of the land.
So it was very difficult for me growing up and actually seeing this, the fact that the women were the ones who were doing all the work in the background, but were actually the ones who had no right to anything.
I think the idea of his work is to really make this industry sustainable as much as possible.
I strive in my work and what I do with GNT coffee to make it as sustainable as possible.
The coffee that I'm trading today only focus on Burundi because it's what I believe that that needs to be done and to be able to help my people.
So the ideal world for me is just look at ways to actually make this industry sustainable, encourage and bring the youth along, empower women, because when you empower women, more things can be done for the families and for the communities, in my point of view, and what I've also experienced.
And also incentivize quality and then pay the farmers the right price.
And that's something that's very hard to be discussing about right now when the C market is rounding one, you know, one, one, one and some change dollar, um, you know, per pound.
So, um, it's very, very hard. And, and most people actually don't even understand.
Some people think that for trade, anything that says for trade, that's the best value, but actually for a trade is just like a few cents above the C market.
Uh, we always, in our case, we always pay way above and beyond, you know, for a trade.
So we don't even touch the fair trade part because we are already above and beyond the fair trade price.
Our, you know, R is of today, but I think that's really working hard to make sure that the farmers are being compensated right for the product that they work so hard for is extremely important.
I had a chance to actually see just a wide variety of amazing coffee that were produced from Burundi and the potential, really, at that time for me.
I realized the potential that something really to be done can be done with coffee to you know even help the people who are even further.
Absolutely absolutely I think it's very confusing with labeling it's so frustrating to see a lot of well -intentioned consumers who want to do the right thing but continue to support brands that really aren't worthy of that support because we've been trained to think that these labels are actually what we We need to support full stop.
And that's just not accurate.
Is there a more appropriate label to signal to customers that this is a company that pays above fair trade?
Or is there a way for us as consumers to try and support exporters and intermediaries like yourself who are more deeply invested in the well -being of the workers?
Basically, I'm just asking, how can we be better coffee consumers?
Actually, like you say, the consumer don't understand what consumers just don't understand.
And I'm not trying to put down for a trade.
I think it's a starting point in my point of view because I think it's a starting point of creating awareness.
So, there is so many terminology that are being used out there like, you know, direct trade, you know, ethically sourced and so forth.
But I think that's one just have to, you know, to dig deeper.
in my point of view like in you know for our company you know we you know i'm from berlindi first and foremost so i actually i i owe my people uh by choice you know you know i don't have to you know there are a lot of people from berlindi who have you know who left the country and they are not not necessarily go back um and to work in their own countries or do something for their own people so i think there are some great companies out there who are doing the right thing but it's a question about really getting educated and actually really doing your own research and then trying to find out which one
are doing what they say they are doing and which one are aligned with your value and which one you want to support, you know, for that same reason.
So I was in graduate school here in the Bay Area and was studying intercultural studies.
He's just, you know, I was very interested in understanding the world and getting to find ways that I could make an impact in the world.
Lauren, I got a job just like many people working in a cafe, needed to have a part -time job to pay for things while I was in school.
And there was another guy who was hired to work alongside of me around the same time.
And both of us became friends.
He was from Eritrea.
The voice you just heard is that of Doug Hewitt.
Doug is the owner and founder of 1951 Coffee in Berkeley, California.
And he began to tell me his story of fleeing Eritrea and why he had fled and fleeing into Sudan and making his way across the Sahara Desert into Libya and making his way across the Mediterranean.
This whole long story before he finally was able to reach the United States to settle and to live here.
And I had never heard a story like that before.
This was in 2007, and it suddenly opened my mind up to a world that I didn't know much about.
But getting to know him and getting to know his community kind of introduced me to refugees.
1951 Coffee is a nonprofit specialty coffee organization that supports the Bay Area refugee and asylee community through providing job training and employment opportunities.
Yeah, so we are a cafe.
We actually have three cafes.
We're a coffee company.
And we also have a barista training program that we operate that trains, obviously trains people to be baristas.
Potentially about 25 of those people can work in our cafes in the positions that we have. but then we also have a network of other coffee companies here in the San Francisco Bay Area that will also hire our graduates because that was something in the process of creating our own cafes that we came across is here in the specialty coffee community in the Bay Area there is a need for baristas, there's a need for workers and especially people who want to be in that industry so to make that a career.
And so we kind of came across that we realized we were in in the right place and the right thing where we have an industry that is in need of people that want to be there and to be there for a while.
And we also have this pool of people who are new to the country who are looking for a place to be and a place where they can put down roots and really start a career.
We work, the largest number of people that we work with are actually from Eritrea and East Africa.
And if anyone knows anything about Eritrea, they have a very close shared history with Ethiopia, which is, Ethiopia is the birthplace of coffee.
coffee and has a very extensive coffee culture.
And that is also shared with Eritrea.
And so very often for Eritreans, sitting down over a cup of coffee is not a 5, 10, 20 minute or an hour experience.
Very often it can be a three hour experience of intentionally roasting the coffee in front of your guest and sharing the experience of the aroma of the coffee as it roasts.
And then the making of the coffee and intentionally going through the three cups of coffee and going through you know, a process.
And so for, you know, for us making a cup of coffee and being detailed in the process to someone from Eritrea, they're like, this is, this is how you're supposed to do coffee.
Coffee is not something that you just drink on a limb when you're running to work.
Like it is a process.
It is a ceremony. And so I think, you know, very often it's just, it's finding those connecting points, whether it's someone from Eritrea who, who understands the detail of coffee coffee and the elegance of coffee and you know at its core um but then with people who who grew up in cultures you know afghanistan where tea and the use of saffron and things is you know also in that same way it's a very high quality high luxury thing but something that you you do when you are being hospitable towards your guests and finding those connecting points with each person in each culture to communicate that process
and you find that ultimately that idea of serving people well is a very universal thing.
Fourth Wave Coffee, fair trade, fair wages.
As is so often the case in the verbiage of sustainability, much of the language is lost in translation between who is being marketed to and who is being supported.
The resources almost certainly end up directed towards the consumers and far less so towards those on the ground who create all of the value.
And within that language, so much is communicated that goes beyond the words that are used.
I'm thinking about the U .S. political language and the difference between working class and poor.
Sustainability and the kinds of brands who promote it and the places that purvey it Further the gap not only between those who benefit and those who perpetuate But also the gap between who is welcome and who isn't Much of the work that we present is about reclamation Because we recognize the power of the kind of inclusion that moves beyond language and instead is rooted in the truth of one's own history.
Knowing coffee comes from Africa and African people supersedes the superlatives that are used to sell coffee.
It doesn't mean that we should abandon earnest efforts of collective improvement.
It just means that we should absorb that history and in doing so, whose language we prioritize.
Reclaiming our stories closes the gap between producer and consumer consumer and who gets to indulge versus who must labor and particularly for specialty coffee changes the images of the faces that we see when we think about ownership leisure knowledge and craft we'd like to thank our guest today keba conti of red bay coffee in fruitvale california to janine nyanzuma aroian from jnp coffee and to all of the incredible women coffee farmers that she works with in Burundi.
Thank you to Doug Hewitt of 1951 Coffee in Oakland, California.
You can learn more about this episode in our guest at wetstonemagazine .com backslash podcast or on IG at wetstonemagazine.
We'll be back next week with our second to last episode of the season where we'll be talking about the morality of meat.
I'm your host, Stephen Satterfield.
We'll see you back here next week with more from the world of food from around the world.
Peace. We'd also like to thank our incredible podcast producer, Celine Glager.
Celine, you are the best. To our editor and Whetstone partner and director of video, David Alexander in London.
Appreciate you, Dave. Thanks to our Whetstone production intern, Quentin LeBeau.
And last but not least, my business partner, Mel Shi, who makes all things at Whetstone possible.
Thank you, Mel. We'd also like to thank our partners in production at iHeartRadio, to Gabrielle Collins, our supervising producer, and executive producer, Christopher Haciotis.
We'll be back next week with more from the world of food worldwide.
Point of origin listeners, as you know, So rating and reviewing our podcast is the very best way for more people to find out about our very important work at Whetstone.
So please, if you're able, we would really appreciate a positive review and rating on Apple podcast that will help others like yourself find out about Point of Origin.
This is an iHeart podcast.
