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Freedom is a flower.
It needs to be nurtured with water and sunlight and thoughtful care.
It's not a given that it will grow or survive all on its own.
Journalist Lei Cheng knows this firsthand.
For more than three years, Lei was imprisoned by China on false accusations of supplying state secrets overseas.
Today, she has a simple but powerful message.
You have to tend to your freedom and it can't be taken for granted.
After Lei's talk, she and I sat down to think about freedom in theory and in practice.
We also talk about the role of journalism in helping preserve our freedoms in an increasingly turbulent world.
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Well, Lake, congrats on your TED Talk.
We're getting you just off the TED stage.
How are you feeling now that it's done?
I'm very energised by the reception and it's very empowering to have lost my voice, my identity, lost everything for so long.
Thank you. I love Ted, and I love our line up of awesome speakers who will have years of experience on their subjects.
My talk is about what I didn't have for a long time, and as Claire told you, I received free accommodation from the Chinese government for over three years for so -called leaking state secrets overseas at the worst time for Australia -China relations.
And the first phase was called RSDL, Chinese spelling for hell.
Then in detention, the sort that makes jail seem like Ibiza, and it was through that ordeal, call it the Wonder Diet, that I realised freedom is wasted on the free.
Let me explain. You can be paralysed by choice.
You can't comprehend the vastness or the preciousness.
So how do you make freedom count when you're lucky enough to have it?
to start, what it felt like to be not free.
And then to reclaim a lot of that and in fact, with the TED audience, to magnify not just my voice, but that of others wrongfully incarcerated in China and in other countries.
And to tell people that even while China seduces with sophistication of technology and seemingly stable prosperity, that there are these dark corners in which repression and torture take place.
And I would love for people to take a nuanced approach to my story, as opposed to, oh my god, that is so awful.
China is evil. Don't go to China, bash the nearest Chinese person you see.
That would be the exact opposite of what I want to see.
I want people to understand that at the same time we call that abuse out, we can still appreciate Chinese culture and Chinese industriousness and creativity.
Would you ever go to China again?
It's a bit like asking a domestic violence victim whether I'd go sleep with the husband who kidnapped me for three years again, but my stock answer to this, this is the most ask questions, and to be honest I used to find it a bit strange why people ask it.
But yes if I felt safe enough and yes if I felt welcome enough, and right now they're still making up lies about me on the Chinese internet, and safety -wise, certainly not.
Because what I'm saying today is going to be held as a breach of espionage law.
Yeah, that'll be some other round.
Let's talk about your beginnings, because we are both journalists.
I'd love to know why you wanted to get into journalism in the first place?
I'd always liked writing as a lonely only child and fugly teenager.
It was my escape, my therapy and I always liked to know what was happening in the world and to tell other people about it.
Yeah. But I was actually five years as a bored unfulfilled accountant before I made the brave switch to journalism.
Oh yes how did you pivot like did you study do to school or did you just kind of get a job in journalism tell us a little bit about your career pivot out of parental pressure I studied commerce and became an accountant but I hated what I was doing and wanted to use my bilingual skills yeah I'd always enjoyed being that medium between two worlds yeah and when I saw a job for a business analyst in Eastern China.
This was back in year 2000 when China had just joined the WTO and it really wanted to globalize.
I jumped at the chance and once there I saw firsthand how state -owned companies were operated, that is, with very little accountability and transparency.
And then I saw another opportunity at then what was known as CCTV 9, which was the English channel of the state broadcaster, and got my start there.
But a year and a half later was approached by CNBC to become their China correspondent.
So that was how I got into TV journalism.
Amazing. And we're glad that you did.
I wasn't glad for a little while.
Of course not. Of course not.
Your talk centers around this notion of freedom.
I'd love to know how you thought about freedom before being incarcerated, and how you're thinking about it now?
I didn't think about freedom because I enjoyed it.
That being said, growing up with first generation immigrant parents in Australia, I'd always known that in China they had taken away a lot of freedoms for years.
Your parents they came up during the Cultural Revolution I assume, But the family went to Australia in 1985, so it was already years into the reform and opening up process.
And even then, I saw the crackdown that came in Tiananmen Square in 1989.
And I'd always known that China wanted to keep freedom of speech and protest and all that, because it wanted to control the people.
The propaganda is that it wants a stable society that's good for everyone, but it's also very condescending and patriarchal to say that we know what's good for everyone.
When I went back to China to work, I thought I was helping with the change to liberalization, that telling what was happening in China to a global audience and vice versa was helping everyone understand each other.
Instead, you ran into a buzz saw.
It sounds like, obviously, bring that back to your time being incarcerated, too, because this is what really crystallized for you this notion of freedom, right?
And then led to some of the ideas in your talk.
When do you feel like that evolution was really evident to you?
And how are you internalizing and living this notion of being free now.
I guess, as I alluded to in the talk, I marvel at every little freedom that we have because for three years and two months, it was all brutally taken away from me.
So I see, like, when I lost my mobile phone in the Uber about two months after I was released, after the initial panic, I think I had such a wonderful thought, at least I have a phone to lose now.
So what's annoying, what's frustrating, is a privilege.
When we die, we won't have any of this pain.
So to embrace pain, change discomfort, to have that in a Zen at all times, like right Now, if there was a natural disaster or if there was war, I think I could still draw on that terrible experience and be able to create, be able to help others, and feel free.
You bring up war, I'd love to talk a little bit about the concept of defending freedom because governments all over the world are spending millions, billions, trillions of dollars on defense and their militaries.
What do you think about that concept, the notion that the state needs to come in and defend the idea of freedom for its citizens?
I think that's a fraught concept and it can be abused in so many ways.
I prefer to think of these grand ideas as concrete little steps that we can all practice day -to -day.
Because some of the best freedom fighters in the world can suddenly turn into dictators once they gain power.
That's because they know how to shut down all the other freedom fighters.
For me, it's more important to respect others' thoughts, opinions, as long as they don't incite hate.
And it's more important for me to show kindness, even with people who may try to hurt me.
Given the fact that the Chinese state did try to hurt you, are there any guardrails now, or any guardrails that you give yourself in terms of what you can and cannot say about the Chinese government?
Well, they're so easily offended.
If you say one thing or ten things, it doesn't really matter.
So you're just like, ah, let her rip.
And the other thing is, if I am to be afraid of, and to be shut down, that is actually a compliment.
It means that… You're paying attention.
Yes, and that I am influencing people.
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You talked about this already a little bit, but what would you say is your vision, your affirmative vision for collectively building a freer future?
JG. I think we should all keep top of mind the value and cost of freedom.
Sometimes it's very easy to see glossy facades of countries like China.
But if you don't realize the cost of that glossiness.
As I know, a lot of influences saying, oh look at China, it's great.
And all of that is true, but if you only show that part of China, it's wrong.
Do you think that we confuse, especially in this highly visual, highly consumerist society, do you think that we confuse consumer choice for freedom?
I think we do. And in a way, the more choice you have, the less freedom you have. Ooh, say more.
Yeah, say more about this.
So if you're paralyzed by choice or if you are constricted by this array of availability, then you're not really thinking for yourself.
You're just a slave to more masters.
Yeah. And then obviously there's architects of our choices too, right?
Whoever's behind the brands or the manufacturers or the industry.
So always think about why am I thinking and feeling this way?
Is this me? And too many choices stopped that conversation from happening.
Right. And who does it benefit?
Well, given the way that the internet has balkanized us, or has become a bunch of echo chambers and the growing nationalism and authoritarianism that we are seeing around the world.
So not just in Asia, but also here in the West. What role do you think journalists should be playing in this moment for the globe?
WG. Certainly not polarizing views.
I wish more centrists could be braver.
And I wish media organisations didn't have to make the tough choice between survival and click bait.
Yeah, so the economic incentives are all off.
We're also just seeing, as a result of failure of a lot of these business models behind journalism, just so many organisations or independent news organisations having to close up shop.
Is that the case in Australia?
Are there responses that you like to this problem of the media implosion?
WG This is a subject that many journalists in Australia and other countries talk about with increasing sense of depression.
Because it is happening everywhere and where we might but we aren't quite seeing media savviness take place in our consumers and whether they then follow with their wallets and attention is another thing.
But we have to keep at it.
One accurate and nuanced article at a time and through meeting and fostering trust between us and our readers, viewers, anyone we meet Alright, you talk about how you learn that the mind can often be our greatest prison.
So what advice do you have for people who are feeling stuck?
Stuck between – Imprisoning themselves, yeah, with their own thoughts or their own notions of what their lives are supposed to be.
I think they should do as much as possible because nobody's telling them not to.
to think as far out as they can.
Because they're not in my parents' era during the Cultural Revolution, during which they had to report to the great leader every day their thoughts and have their diaries raided.
So we have all these freedoms that we don't exercise.
And please don't wait until you're sitting in a prison cell like I was or on your deathbed.
And not even to know what you missed, that would be a tragedy greater than any other.
We have some rapid fire questions, a lightning round, so you don't have to overthink it, and it's just a quick word association or whatever comes to your mind first. And it's a way for us to get to know you beyond your talk, specifically.
All right. What does innovation or a good idea look or feel like to you?
Spark. Love it. What's something new that you brought into your life in 2025 that didn't exist before?
Dating apps. Ooh. I want to hear more.
Have you ... See, now I have to ask a follow -up.
Are there different dating apps in Australia than there are in the US and Canada?
I think they tend to be fairly international, the major ones.
But in terms of the people you find there, you'll probably find some local flavors.
Yeah, okay. Vegemite.
No. I always think, when I think of Australia I'm always like, Tim Tams?
Oh yes. And then Vegemite.
And I'm like, I have a taste for Tim Tams but not Vegemite.
Okay. What are you hoping to leave behind this year.
Book. Your book, yes!
Actually a play. Ooh.
I'm working on a play.
How exciting are you learning to write a play versus a book or a script that you've written before?
We're making it up, yeah, as we go and love the creative process.
Great. All right, off the TED stage, what is a fun talent, skill, or hobby that you have that you love so much that you could give another Ted Talk just about that.
Ooh, any specific kind of food?
From someone who was deprived of any choice for a long time, I tend to just have just love everything.
Everything is delicious.
I'm really maximizing my meals at the food trucks because they're open for several hours.
That's right. So if you have a strategy, you can really hit all of them within the five hours.
Good idea. I like the way you think.
I have all the buffet hacks.
Just come to me. Yes, please.
What is your most treasured memory?
Singing in the cell.
Mmm. That's really lovely.
Kind of bittersweet, of course.
And what would constitute a perfect day for you?
A day filled with food and cooking, going to a produce market, playing some soccer, making up skits with my children, writing and listening to all sorts of music and hugs and kisses.
Wow, you really thought about this.
I love it. I guess you had a lot of time to figure out what you valued the most. Also if I just said sex, you might not make it to the Final Cut.
Then you don't get to enjoy all the other things.
All right. What are you worried about and what's giving you hope?
I'm worried about my kids not learning how to communicate interpersonally, but I'm also hopeful that they might be a new generation of thinkers and communicators and innovators that we can't imagine right now.
Last question. What's kind of a small gratitude?
I know you're grateful for many things.
What is a small gratitude that you have in your life right now?
Like a little specific thing that you're really grateful for.
Flowers. And spring in Vancouver, my God, with all that rain, your flowers are just absolutely gorgeous.
And at TED, every table centerpiece is magnificent.
So lovely. And I had no plants for over three years, so… I look at them all the time and touch them.
Beautiful. Lei Cheng, thank you so much. Thank you.
That was Lei Cheng in conversation with me, Elise Hu at TED 2025.
You can check out Lei's talk on the TED Talks daily feed or at TED .com.
And that's it for today.
TED Talks daily is part of the TED audio collective.
This episode was produced by Lucy Little and edited by Alejandra Salazar.
This episode was recorded by Rich Aimees and Dave Pulmer of Field Trip, production support from Daniela Ballerizzo and Shu -Han Hu.
The TED Talks Daily team includes Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Greene, and Tansika Sangmar -Nivong.
I'm Elise Hieu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed.
Thanks for listening.
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Change starts with listening.
If you have a heart, activism is just a natural step into the next part of who you're gonna be as a person.
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Don't try to fight bad legislation.
Write your own legislation.
On ALL ABOUT CHANGE, we talk to inspiring people about their purpose, what gives them hope and drives them to create change.
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